Re: Project idea (Hypersonic)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 James Duncan Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thursday, July 26, 2001, at 03:50 PM, burtonator wrote: I might agree with that. But IMO we have a lot of things that are out of scope? Ant? James? Log4J? Regexp? Come on? Don't get me wrong.. I LOVE those projects but I think that a DB is more in-scope than they are :) snip You're right. I think out of the current set of Jakarta projects there are many out of scope. I think that they should live somewhere else. I've argued unsuccessfully about this before -- and gave up. But just because we have warts doesn't mean we should add more. I think we are just on the classic slippery slope. It will probably get worse before there is uniform acceptance that it exists. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 They have the guns, money, and press but we have the technology! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7YocLAwM6xb2dfE0RAjC1AJ4vHoQFRys0UVL8MrNl2vylj5gnYwCfRxAt anAIdUY/2xPhzSgUnt8s+70= =8vm4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Project idea (Hypersonic)
Kevin Burton wrote: I think we are just on the classic slippery slope. It will probably get worse before there is uniform acceptance that it exists. Or that it splits. One could easily imagine that a database and related projects merits its own PMC. - Sam Ruby - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Project idea (Hypersonic)
If one of their team comes up and asks, we can consider it, but I don't feel it's our task to go out and convince them to join us... snip Yes. I understand this perspective. However I think it is important to note that sometimes cooperation is much better than competition. I totally agree and I'll be more than happy to see hsql in jakarta. Sometimes competition in similar (or same) projects became a sane emulation (Pier knows what I mean :) And after all sourceforge is now a really good area to host OpenSource projects (java and others). - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Project idea (Hypersonic)
GOMEZ Henri at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I totally agree and I'll be more than happy to see hsql in jakarta. But they haven't approached us... And I believe the first step should be done by them.. Sometimes competition in similar (or same) projects became a sane emulation (Pier knows what I mean :) We're not competing with HSQL... And after all sourceforge is now a really good area to host OpenSource projects (java and others). I don't see what you mean... Pier - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Project idea (Hypersonic)
burtonator at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just an FYI. I have spent a lot of time recently working with the Hypersonic people. There are a number of issues here. It seems they talked to Apache in the past about moving Hypersonic under Jakarta but were turned down. Since then a lot has happened. [...] That said I hope other ASF developers are able to convince them to change their ways where I have failed. I am sure more voices will help make these issues more relevant. IMVHO, we shouldn't run after projects who, as you said, have a negative inclination towards the Foundation. We have already enough stuff in our bags to keep us busy forever, and although the project seems to be pretty cool, I don't see a reason why we should incorporate it within our family. If one of their team comes up and asks, we can consider it, but I don't feel it's our task to go out and convince them to join us... ?xml version=1.0 dorkism source=uber geek Apache != Borg :) /dorkism Pier - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Project idea
try this one with a BSD licence... http://sourceforge.net/projects/hsqldb On 15 Jul 2001, at 15:29, Bob Jamison wrote: Cory L Hubert wrote: I think it's time for it as well. Oracle, DB2, Sybase are planning on cashing in even bigger now. The .com crazy is over and people are going to start to develop and market information rich websites and services that reach out to cell phones/PDA's etc. There hasn't been much innovation going on in the Relational DB world. It'd be nice to see an Open Source project catch up, innovate, and outperform the Big Name DB vendors. An Open Source java DB by a trusted Open Source Name (Apache) would allow anyone to have a high end database solution without being a big money making enterprise. Obviously I think this is a good idea. Why don't we create a list for Open Source DB's to evaluate? Also some criteria. I've already mentioned. 1. Object or Object/Relational DB. 2. Support for SQL/OQL 3. Support for the SUN JDO spec. -Original Message- From: David Duddleston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 11:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Project idea There is a pretty good Java SQL Relational DB called Mckoi, but the darn thing is GPL and I have sent about 6 emails trying to get them to change the license to an ASL or equivalent, but I have had no luck. They won't even change to LGPL. hsql Database on sourceforge has a good license and works well for small projects, but I don't know if I would trust it for anything important. Hopefully it will pick up some momentum. I know Jetspeed (a Jakarta project) uses Hypersonic SQL (now hsql Database), or at least used it the last time I check which was a long time ago. I would love to see a solid Java RDBMS under a business friendly license. Maybe someday ;-) -david -Original Message- From: Tal Dayan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Project idea Does Jakarta has anything close to an embedded pure Java relational data base ? If not, a project like that will be a great addition to the Jakarta family. Tal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey, maybe take a look at http://www.lutris.com/products/projects/instantDB They have been hinting about making it open for a long time now, and maybe they could use some help doing so. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't -- David Zindell - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Project idea
Cory L Hubert wrote: I think it's time for it as well. Oracle, DB2, Sybase are planning on cashing in even bigger now. The .com crazy is over and people are going to start to develop and market information rich websites and services that reach out to cell phones/PDA's etc. There hasn't been much innovation going on in the Relational DB world. It'd be nice to see an Open Source project catch up, innovate, and outperform the Big Name DB vendors. An Open Source java DB by a trusted Open Source Name (Apache) would allow anyone to have a high end database solution without being a big money making enterprise. Obviously I think this is a good idea. Why don't we create a list for Open Source DB's to evaluate? Also some criteria. I've already mentioned. 1. Object or Object/Relational DB. 2. Support for SQL/OQL 3. Support for the SUN JDO spec. -Original Message- From: David Duddleston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 11:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Project idea There is a pretty good Java SQL Relational DB called Mckoi, but the darn thing is GPL and I have sent about 6 emails trying to get them to change the license to an ASL or equivalent, but I have had no luck. They won't even change to LGPL. hsql Database on sourceforge has a good license and works well for small projects, but I don't know if I would trust it for anything important. Hopefully it will pick up some momentum. I know Jetspeed (a Jakarta project) uses Hypersonic SQL (now hsql Database), or at least used it the last time I check which was a long time ago. I would love to see a solid Java RDBMS under a business friendly license. Maybe someday ;-) -david -Original Message- From: Tal Dayan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Project idea Does Jakarta has anything close to an embedded pure Java relational data base ? If not, a project like that will be a great addition to the Jakarta family. Tal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey, maybe take a look at http://www.lutris.com/products/projects/instantDB They have been hinting about making it open for a long time now, and maybe they could use some help doing so. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Project idea
I agree with you people. Good soil to till. -Original Message- From: Bob Jamison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:29 PM Subject: Re: Project idea Cory L Hubert wrote: I think it's time for it as well. Oracle, DB2, Sybase are planning on cashing in even bigger now. The .com crazy is over and people are going to start to develop and market information rich websites and services that reach out to cell phones/PDA's etc. There hasn't been much innovation going on in the Relational DB world. It'd be nice to see an Open Source project catch up, innovate, and outperform the Big Name DB vendors. An Open Source java DB by a trusted Open Source Name (Apache) would allow anyone to have a high end database solution without being a big money making enterprise. Obviously I think this is a good idea. Why don't we create a list for Open Source DB's to evaluate? Also some criteria. I've already mentioned. 1. Object or Object/Relational DB. 2. Support for SQL/OQL 3. Support for the SUN JDO spec. -Original Message- From: David Duddleston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 11:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Project idea There is a pretty good Java SQL Relational DB called Mckoi, but the darn thing is GPL and I have sent about 6 emails trying to get them to change the license to an ASL or equivalent, but I have had no luck. They won't even change to LGPL. hsql Database on sourceforge has a good license and works well for small projects, but I don't know if I would trust it for anything important. Hopefully it will pick up some momentum. I know Jetspeed (a Jakarta project) uses Hypersonic SQL (now hsql Database), or at least used it the last time I check which was a long time ago. I would love to see a solid Java RDBMS under a business friendly license. Maybe someday ;-) -david -Original Message- From: Tal Dayan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Project idea Does Jakarta has anything close to an embedded pure Java relational data base ? If not, a project like that will be a great addition to the Jakarta family. Tal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey, maybe take a look at http://www.lutris.com/products/projects/instantDB They have been hinting about making it open for a long time now, and maybe they could use some help doing so. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Project idea
There is a pretty good Java SQL Relational DB called Mckoi, but the darn thing is GPL and I have sent about 6 emails trying to get them to change the license to an ASL or equivalent, but I have had no luck. They won't even change to LGPL. hsql Database on sourceforge has a good license and works well for small projects, but I don't know if I would trust it for anything important. Hopefully it will pick up some momentum. I know Jetspeed (a Jakarta project) uses Hypersonic SQL (now hsql Database), or at least used it the last time I check which was a long time ago. I would love to see a solid Java RDBMS under a business friendly license. Maybe someday ;-) -david -Original Message- From: Tal Dayan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Project idea Does Jakarta has anything close to an embedded pure Java relational data base ? If not, a project like that will be a great addition to the Jakarta family. Tal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Project idea
I think it's time for it as well. Oracle, DB2, Sybase are planning on cashing in even bigger now. The .com crazy is over and people are going to start to develop and market information rich websites and services that reach out to cell phones/PDA's etc. There hasn't been much innovation going on in the Relational DB world. It'd be nice to see an Open Source project catch up, innovate, and outperform the Big Name DB vendors. An Open Source java DB by a trusted Open Source Name (Apache) would allow anyone to have a high end database solution without being a big money making enterprise. Obviously I think this is a good idea. Why don't we create a list for Open Source DB's to evaluate? Also some criteria. I've already mentioned. 1. Object or Object/Relational DB. 2. Support for SQL/OQL 3. Support for the SUN JDO spec. -Original Message- From: David Duddleston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 11:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Project idea There is a pretty good Java SQL Relational DB called Mckoi, but the darn thing is GPL and I have sent about 6 emails trying to get them to change the license to an ASL or equivalent, but I have had no luck. They won't even change to LGPL. hsql Database on sourceforge has a good license and works well for small projects, but I don't know if I would trust it for anything important. Hopefully it will pick up some momentum. I know Jetspeed (a Jakarta project) uses Hypersonic SQL (now hsql Database), or at least used it the last time I check which was a long time ago. I would love to see a solid Java RDBMS under a business friendly license. Maybe someday ;-) -david -Original Message- From: Tal Dayan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Project idea Does Jakarta has anything close to an embedded pure Java relational data base ? If not, a project like that will be a great addition to the Jakarta family. Tal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Project idea
The Mckoi site is at http://www.mckoi.com/database, the owners are at http://www.iglou.com/adiehl. They menion in the FAQ that the license is GPL but 'you wish to use the database under a different license then contact us for further details'. Anybody feels lucky and want to give them a call ;-) Tal -Original Message- From: David Duddleston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 11:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Project idea There is a pretty good Java SQL Relational DB called Mckoi, but the darn thing is GPL and I have sent about 6 emails trying to get them to change the license to an ASL or equivalent, but I have had no luck. They won't even change to LGPL. hsql Database on sourceforge has a good license and works well for small projects, but I don't know if I would trust it for anything important. Hopefully it will pick up some momentum. I know Jetspeed (a Jakarta project) uses Hypersonic SQL (now hsql Database), or at least used it the last time I check which was a long time ago. I would love to see a solid Java RDBMS under a business friendly license. Maybe someday ;-) -david -Original Message- From: Tal Dayan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Project idea Does Jakarta has anything close to an embedded pure Java relational data base ? If not, a project like that will be a great addition to the Jakarta family. Tal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Project idea
Here are more points to consider when evaluating canidates and when defining the project goals: * 100% Java (of course) * Copyright clearance (including any required third party components) * Supports both server/multi-clients mode and embedded configuration * Reasonable performance and scalability * Transactional * Flexible data storage (not too restrictive limitation on row and cell sizes). * Easy migration to/from popular data bases You can find a list of existing Java data bases at http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Java/Database-Related/ (I found it following Mike Dougherty's pointers, thanks Mike). Tal -Original Message- From: Cory L Hubert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 3:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Project idea I think it's time for it as well. Oracle, DB2, Sybase are planning on cashing in even bigger now. The .com crazy is over and people are going to start to develop and market information rich websites and services that reach out to cell phones/PDA's etc. There hasn't been much innovation going on in the Relational DB world. It'd be nice to see an Open Source project catch up, innovate, and outperform the Big Name DB vendors. An Open Source java DB by a trusted Open Source Name (Apache) would allow anyone to have a high end database solution without being a big money making enterprise. Obviously I think this is a good idea. Why don't we create a list for Open Source DB's to evaluate? Also some criteria. I've already mentioned. 1. Object or Object/Relational DB. 2. Support for SQL/OQL 3. Support for the SUN JDO spec. -Original Message- From: David Duddleston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 11:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Project idea There is a pretty good Java SQL Relational DB called Mckoi, but the darn thing is GPL and I have sent about 6 emails trying to get them to change the license to an ASL or equivalent, but I have had no luck. They won't even change to LGPL. hsql Database on sourceforge has a good license and works well for small projects, but I don't know if I would trust it for anything important. Hopefully it will pick up some momentum. I know Jetspeed (a Jakarta project) uses Hypersonic SQL (now hsql Database), or at least used it the last time I check which was a long time ago. I would love to see a solid Java RDBMS under a business friendly license. Maybe someday ;-) -david -Original Message- From: Tal Dayan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Project idea Does Jakarta has anything close to an embedded pure Java relational data base ? If not, a project like that will be a great addition to the Jakarta family. Tal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Project idea
Once we get Lucene moved over, maybe we can get the hsql project moved to Jakarta also. It would be a huge step forward for data management on Jakarta. -david -Original Message- From: Tal Dayan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 11:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Project idea Here are more points to consider when evaluating canidates and when defining the project goals: * 100% Java (of course) * Copyright clearance (including any required third party components) * Supports both server/multi-clients mode and embedded configuration * Reasonable performance and scalability * Transactional * Flexible data storage (not too restrictive limitation on row and cell sizes). * Easy migration to/from popular data bases You can find a list of existing Java data bases at http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Java/Database-Related/ (I found it following Mike Dougherty's pointers, thanks Mike). Tal -Original Message- From: Cory L Hubert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 3:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Project idea I think it's time for it as well. Oracle, DB2, Sybase are planning on cashing in even bigger now. The .com crazy is over and people are going to start to develop and market information rich websites and services that reach out to cell phones/PDA's etc. There hasn't been much innovation going on in the Relational DB world. It'd be nice to see an Open Source project catch up, innovate, and outperform the Big Name DB vendors. An Open Source java DB by a trusted Open Source Name (Apache) would allow anyone to have a high end database solution without being a big money making enterprise. Obviously I think this is a good idea. Why don't we create a list for Open Source DB's to evaluate? Also some criteria. I've already mentioned. 1. Object or Object/Relational DB. 2. Support for SQL/OQL 3. Support for the SUN JDO spec. -Original Message- From: David Duddleston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 11:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Project idea There is a pretty good Java SQL Relational DB called Mckoi, but the darn thing is GPL and I have sent about 6 emails trying to get them to change the license to an ASL or equivalent, but I have had no luck. They won't even change to LGPL. hsql Database on sourceforge has a good license and works well for small projects, but I don't know if I would trust it for anything important. Hopefully it will pick up some momentum. I know Jetspeed (a Jakarta project) uses Hypersonic SQL (now hsql Database), or at least used it the last time I check which was a long time ago. I would love to see a solid Java RDBMS under a business friendly license. Maybe someday ;-) -david -Original Message- From: Tal Dayan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Project idea Does Jakarta has anything close to an embedded pure Java relational data base ? If not, a project like that will be a great addition to the Jakarta family. Tal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Project idea
Does Jakarta has anything close to an embedded pure Java relational data base ? If not, a project like that will be a great addition to the Jakarta family. Tal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Project idea
Why not. A relational/ohject database. One that may be queried with standard SQL and OQL. It should probably work with the up and coming Sun Microsystems JDO spec. -Original Message- From: Tal Dayan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Project idea Does Jakarta has anything close to an embedded pure Java relational data base ? If not, a project like that will be a great addition to the Jakarta family. Tal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Project idea
Cory L Hubert wrote: Why not. A relational/ohject database. One that may be queried with standard SQL and OQL. It should probably work with the up and coming Sun Microsystems JDO spec. -Original Message- From: Tal Dayan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Project idea Does Jakarta has anything close to an embedded pure Java relational data base ? If not, a project like that will be a great addition to the Jakarta family. Tal If you are looking for good database engines you can check: HypersonicSQL: http://sourceforge.net/projects/hsql/ ozone: http://www.ozone-db.org I'm not sure how the current project teams would feel about bringing them under Apache. I don't even know what the process is to even try and find out. So that's about all the help I can offer. /mike -- ** Mike Dougherty -- Java Software Engineer ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
