Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
What if Java was GNU http://www.kaffe.org ? Jeff Schnitzer wrote: Do you just not grasp that Sun's rigid control of Java is the antithesis of Open Source, and _especially_ the Apache philosophy? Try forking the Java codebase sometime. See how fast it takes Sun's lawyers to find you. Want to port Java to a new platform? Get special permission from Sun, and don't plan on having public CVS (see the FreeBSD experience). There's nothing open about that. Jeff -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
To me that is the closed version of XFORMS. I likve novell.com/xforms that runs on Tomcat etc., and does not lock in a Windows client. .V Dominique Devienne wrote: Did you guys see in the news that Office 11 will have standard compliant XML schemas for Word and Excel files??? --DD -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 1:57 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: clip I don't really want or need to see Microsoft's code. What I would like to see is their file formats, protocols and APIs being documented so that other developers, open-source or otherwise, can interoperate and compete with their products clip I agree!! We're working on it, we're working on it... ( 1. http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/poifs/fileformat.html 2. http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/hssf/chart.html 3. http://sc.openoffice.org/excelfileformat.pdf ) Maybe you should lend us a hand. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Because its more stable and runs faster under Linux than Star/OpenOffice? -Andy Scott Sanders wrote: But EVERYONE knows Word is only used on emails and simple love letters (with viri) under 4 pages. Why would you use anything else? Scott PS I do use Windows at work, and I even once had Excel open with 4 (yes four) workbooks at one time... -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 6:00 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way Yeah... Maybe they can make it not crash for reasonable sized files... That would be compliant.. -Andy Scott Sanders wrote: Just like the news had Office 10, 9, 8, and 7 will all these XML compliance features? Office 11 will be closer than anything before, but I might be inclined to drop java if what they see is the same as what they do :) Scott -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
On Fri, 2002-12-13 at 09:18, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Because its more stable and runs faster under Linux than Star/OpenOffice? Sadly, MS Word under CrossOver Office is more stable on my Linux workstation at work than OpenOffice. Hopefully this will change. -Brian -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
I think this thread has lost its way :-) Conor you are right! Because its more stable and runs faster under Linux than Star/OpenOffice? Sadly, MS Word under CrossOver Office is more stable on my Linux workstation at work than OpenOffice. Hopefully this will change. -Brian so ppl, why don't you report bugs so they can make it stable?!!! open source community is our own softwar and we need to enhance it rather than leaving it for something else. if one day you saw your kid in dangur you will help him, am i right?? or you will leave him and buy another kid from the stors?!! support Sun, Open Source, and all good manufacturar in our nice world :) -mohammad _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Sadly, MS Word under CrossOver Office is more stable on my Linux workstation at work than OpenOffice. Hopefully this will change. -Brian so ppl, why don't you report bugs so they can make it stable?!!! Before you lecture, go look at the OpenOffice sources. It is amazing that the thing even works. open source community is our own softwar and we need to enhance it rather than leaving it for something else. At some point you'll reach a point where your to-do list is so long that its just not feasible. The effort to improve OpenOffice would be MASSIVE due to horrible sourcecode organization and some just plain bad practice. Also you'll find it even more difficult to handle if you can't read German. (Much of the code commenting and some of the code itself is in German). if one day you saw your kid in dangur you will help him, am i right?? or you will leave him and buy another kid from the stors?!! support Sun, Open Source, and all good manufacturar in our nice world :) Why in the heck would I want to support Sun blindly? What's in it for me? Why would I want to support manufacturers ambivilently? -Andy -mohammad _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[OT] Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Amen, Brother. Kill this thread! At 01:50 AM 12/14/2002 +1100, you wrote: Brian McCallister wrote: On Fri, 2002-12-13 at 09:18, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Because its more stable and runs faster under Linux than Star/OpenOffice? Sadly, MS Word under CrossOver Office is more stable on my Linux workstation at work than OpenOffice. Hopefully this will change. -Brian I think this thread has lost its way :-) Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Micael --- This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 06:42:36PM +0200, mohammad nabil wrote: support Sun, Open Source, and all good manufacturar in our nice world :) Do you just not grasp that Sun's rigid control of Java is the antithesis of Open Source, and _especially_ the Apache philosophy? Try forking the Java codebase sometime. See how fast it takes Sun's lawyers to find you. Want to port Java to a new platform? Get special permission from Sun, and don't plan on having public CVS (see the FreeBSD experience). There's nothing open about that. Jeff -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
On 13/12/02 20:00 Jeff Schnitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 06:42:36PM +0200, mohammad nabil wrote: support Sun, Open Source, and all good manufacturar in our nice world :) Do you just not grasp that Sun's rigid control of Java is the antithesis of Open Source, and _especially_ the Apache philosophy? Try forking the Java codebase sometime. See how fast it takes Sun's lawyers to find you. Want to port Java to a new platform? Get special permission from Sun, and don't plan on having public CVS (see the FreeBSD experience). There's nothing open about that. That's why the Foundation is working to fix that... Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Sun is exactly what Microsoft would be if it were short a few billion dollars. To think otherwise is to significantly deceive ones self. -Andy Jeff Schnitzer wrote: On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 06:42:36PM +0200, mohammad nabil wrote: support Sun, Open Source, and all good manufacturar in our nice world :) Do you just not grasp that Sun's rigid control of Java is the antithesis of Open Source, and _especially_ the Apache philosophy? Try forking the Java codebase sometime. See how fast it takes Sun's lawyers to find you. Want to port Java to a new platform? Get special permission from Sun, and don't plan on having public CVS (see the FreeBSD experience). There's nothing open about that. Jeff -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
To suggest that Sun [t]here's nothing 'open' about Sun is not very insightful. Compare them to Microsoft, for example. You need to speak in ways that at least pass the laugh test. Sun deserves one hell of a lot of credit. At 02:44 AM 12/14/2002 +, you wrote: On 13/12/02 20:00 Jeff Schnitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 06:42:36PM +0200, mohammad nabil wrote: support Sun, Open Source, and all good manufacturar in our nice world :) Do you just not grasp that Sun's rigid control of Java is the antithesis of Open Source, and _especially_ the Apache philosophy? Try forking the Java codebase sometime. See how fast it takes Sun's lawyers to find you. Want to port Java to a new platform? Get special permission from Sun, and don't plan on having public CVS (see the FreeBSD experience). There's nothing open about that. That's why the Foundation is working to fix that... Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Micael --- This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Heck yeah! First task Get a copy of NANT that does more than crap itself under mono... Very very annoying... The POIFS port is fairly senseless (for anyone who is apt to point this out) on Windows as you could obviously use the MFC apis to get at it, however, I doubt these will ever be complete on UNIX/et al.. Plus the POIFS port will make way for an HSSF/HDF C# port later on. Why? you ask... Learning experienceand delicious irony! Lets move this to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've NO idea when this mail will make it out of my mailbox...long story regarding ice storms, downed power lines and firewalls... -Andy Bob Johnson wrote: Thanks Andy for the links. The Question I have for everybody here is does anyone have any interest in Porting any of the other jakarta projects to C# so that they may be able to run on Mono/Linux/windows .Net/Micorsoft ? I have been experimenting with Mono/MCS Microsoft/CSC for a few months. I like Mono and I think it is surprisingly fast. Andy if you need any help with a possible POIFS http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/poifs port I would be more than happy to going you if you dont mind another person who wants to learn more about C# working with you. Bob - Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Thanks Jon. Here's the link. http://www.sys-con.com/java/article.cfm?id=1714 Its an okay article. Could be a bit more in-depth I suppose, but I imagine all the people who could write that are under gag order. And if you're really depressed... Here's a quick how to for doing C#/Mono by yours truly: http://www.freeroller.net/page/acoliver/20021129 *I'm home with Mono* -Andy Jon Scott Stevens wrote: Great guest editorial article (no web link yet it seems) in the November Java Developers Journal that I suggest you read. It briefly outlines how the JCP is screwing up the way that Sun manages Java. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: clip I don't really want or need to see Microsoft's code. What I would like to see is their file formats, protocols and APIs being documented so that other developers, open-source or otherwise, can interoperate and compete with their products clip I agree!! We're working on it, we're working on it... ( 1. http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/poifs/fileformat.html 2. http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/hssf/chart.html 3. http://sc.openoffice.org/excelfileformat.pdf ) Maybe you should lend us a hand. Conor MacNeill conor@cortexebusine To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] ss.com.au cc: Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way 12/10/02 08:26 AM Please respond to Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Micael, I am sorry that you think of yourself as one to be believed as dim-witted, because I know that I never inferred anything of the sort. Do you have some issues you would like to talk about?. Isn't it ironic how everyone continues bash MicroSoft because they make such horrible products, yet everyone wanted the sourcecode released. If it is such garbage, why would anyone want it??? clip God, some people! clip As for my comments being worth the time saying, you and James did read them and feel a need to respond. So maybe they were worth it after all. Personally, I don't really want or need to see Microsoft's code. What I would like to see is their file formats, protocols and APIs being documented so that other developers, open-source or otherwise, can interoperate and compete with their products. Then I can choose to use or not to use Microsoft products as I please. I'd also like to see all that provided royalty free and unencumbered by patents, submarine or otherwise. I haven't really flirted with the whole C#/.NET thing but this seems to remain a question mark over Mono and even the ECMA standardization. Anyway, back to more pleasant dreams ... Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Did you guys see in the news that Office 11 will have standard compliant XML schemas for Word and Excel files??? --DD -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 1:57 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: clip I don't really want or need to see Microsoft's code. What I would like to see is their file formats, protocols and APIs being documented so that other developers, open-source or otherwise, can interoperate and compete with their products clip I agree!! We're working on it, we're working on it... ( 1. http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/poifs/fileformat.html 2. http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/hssf/chart.html 3. http://sc.openoffice.org/excelfileformat.pdf ) Maybe you should lend us a hand. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Just like the news had Office 10, 9, 8, and 7 will all these XML compliance features? Office 11 will be closer than anything before, but I might be inclined to drop java if what they see is the same as what they do :) Scott -Original Message- From: Dominique Devienne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 3:05 PM To: 'Jakarta General List' Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way Did you guys see in the news that Office 11 will have standard compliant XML schemas for Word and Excel files??? --DD -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 1:57 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: clip I don't really want or need to see Microsoft's code. What I would like to see is their file formats, protocols and APIs being documented so that other developers, open-source or otherwise, can interoperate and compete with their products clip I agree!! We're working on it, we're working on it... ( 1. http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/poifs/fileformat.html 2. http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/hssf/chart.html 3. http://sc.openoffice.org/excelfileformat.pdf ) Maybe you should lend us a hand. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Yeah... Maybe they can make it not crash for reasonable sized files... That would be compliant.. -Andy Scott Sanders wrote: Just like the news had Office 10, 9, 8, and 7 will all these XML compliance features? Office 11 will be closer than anything before, but I might be inclined to drop java if what they see is the same as what they do :) Scott -Original Message- From: Dominique Devienne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 3:05 PM To: 'Jakarta General List' Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way Did you guys see in the news that Office 11 will have standard compliant XML schemas for Word and Excel files??? --DD -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 1:57 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: clip I don't really want or need to see Microsoft's code. What I would like to see is their file formats, protocols and APIs being documented so that other developers, open-source or otherwise, can interoperate and compete with their products clip I agree!! We're working on it, we're working on it... ( 1. http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/poifs/fileformat.html 2. http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/hssf/chart.html 3. http://sc.openoffice.org/excelfileformat.pdf ) Maybe you should lend us a hand. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way
I opened up WindoZ Word for WindoZ once to open the games that are hidden by the unhappy employees in there. You guys played the flying (space travel) games inside Word? At 07:59 PM 12/12/2002 -0800, you wrote: But EVERYONE knows Word is only used on emails and simple love letters (with viri) under 4 pages. Why would you use anything else? Scott PS I do use Windows at work, and I even once had Excel open with 4 (yes four) workbooks at one time... -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 6:00 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way Yeah... Maybe they can make it not crash for reasonable sized files... That would be compliant.. -Andy Scott Sanders wrote: Just like the news had Office 10, 9, 8, and 7 will all these XML compliance features? Office 11 will be closer than anything before, but I might be inclined to drop java if what they see is the same as what they do :) Scott -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Micael --- This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
I particularly liked what this judge had to say: http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34tmpl=fcin=Techcat=Microsoft_Antitrus t_Trial -Scott- - Original Message - From: Danny Angus [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way That they can use such a strategy at all is enough proof for me that they hold an unhealthy monopoly over certain sectors of corporate IT, whatever any judge might say. d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Thats cool, Makes the judge look like the kind of guy who only understands life by analogy with sport though. I suppose American judges aren't any less insane than ours then. ;-) d. I particularly liked what this judge had to say: http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34tmpl=fcin=Techcat=Microsof t_Antitrus t_Trial -Scott- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 07:24 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Micael, I am sorry that you think of yourself as one to be believed as dim-witted, because I know that I never inferred anything of the sort. Do you have some issues you would like to talk about?. Isn't it ironic how everyone continues bash MicroSoft because they make such horrible products, yet everyone wanted the sourcecode released. If it is such garbage, why would anyone want it??? clip God, some people! clip So we can fix them, or remove the parts that lead to vendor lock-in. For example, I always wanted the source to VisualC++ so I could fix their project file. Instead of some stupid proprietary binary that was almost self-corrupting, I wanted to switch to a readable (fixable) text format like XML. Same with Excel - I used to do real-time financial market data stuff, and we had such problems with Excel sometimes WRT real-time updates via DDE. Now, I think Excel is one of their finest products (that and Intellimouse...), but we had needs that the average user didn't, and were happy to extend the thing if we could... As for my comments being worth the time saying, you and James did read them and feel a need to respond. So maybe they were worth it after all. Aaron micael caraunltd@harb To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] ornet.comcc: Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way 12/06/02 07:55 PM Please respond to Jakarta General List That is funny James. I really wonder if Aaron can truly believe we are so dim-witted or that anything he said was worth the time saying. God, some people! Micael At 03:14 PM 12/6/2002 -0800, you wrote: the number 1 selling OS In case anyone hasn't seen this yet, I've attached the source code to Windows 2000. -- James Mitchell -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:37 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way Ive been reading this thread and I think it is a bit humorous that some people think that companies that use the open source groupies to generate thier income are not just as minipulative as the proprietary ones. clip. M$ is not looking out for me, that I am sure about. clip. neither is Sun, nor Redhat, nor Debian,... I love open source and the idea of a bunch of people working together for a common goal, but I also think that if someone wants to make a living off of selling thier product, and not support, then they should be allowed to keep their code to themselves. Sometimes I wonder if Sun would whine about Microsoft as much as they do if Sun had the number 1 selling OS. Just my opinion, but I think it's a good one. Aaron Manns -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Micael --- This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-355-2219(w) Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Geir, I appreciate the intelligent response. I have a question though, what happens when you pour your heart and soul into building a product, and make it so user friendly that not many people need support? Now your product is open source and everyone is getting it for free so nobody is buying you 'commercial' version and you can't sell enough support to earn a living? one more question, is Redhat Linux Professional Server any different from what you can download for free. If so how can they get away with that? Aaron Geir Magnusson Jr. To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] geirm@adeptra cc: .comSubject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way 12/10/02 07:33 AM Please respond to Jakarta General List On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 07:24 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Micael, I am sorry that you think of yourself as one to be believed as dim-witted, because I know that I never inferred anything of the sort. Do you have some issues you would like to talk about?. Isn't it ironic how everyone continues bash MicroSoft because they make such horrible products, yet everyone wanted the sourcecode released. If it is such garbage, why would anyone want it??? clip God, some people! clip So we can fix them, or remove the parts that lead to vendor lock-in. For example, I always wanted the source to VisualC++ so I could fix their project file. Instead of some stupid proprietary binary that was almost self-corrupting, I wanted to switch to a readable (fixable) text format like XML. Same with Excel - I used to do real-time financial market data stuff, and we had such problems with Excel sometimes WRT real-time updates via DDE. Now, I think Excel is one of their finest products (that and Intellimouse...), but we had needs that the average user didn't, and were happy to extend the thing if we could... As for my comments being worth the time saying, you and James did read them and feel a need to respond. So maybe they were worth it after all. Aaron micael caraunltd@harb To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] ornet.comcc: Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way 12/06/02 07:55 PM Please respond to Jakarta General List That is funny James. I really wonder if Aaron can truly believe we are so dim-witted or that anything he said was worth the time saying. God, some people! Micael At 03:14 PM 12/6/2002 -0800, you wrote: the number 1 selling OS In case anyone hasn't seen this yet, I've attached the source code to Windows 2000. -- James Mitchell -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:37 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way Ive been reading this thread and I think it is a bit humorous that some people think that companies that use the open source groupies to generate thier income are not just as minipulative as the proprietary ones. clip. M$ is not looking out for me, that I am sure about. clip. neither is Sun, nor Redhat, nor Debian,... I love open source and the idea of a bunch of people working together for a common goal, but I also think that if someone wants to make a living off of selling thier product, and not support, then they should be allowed to keep their code to themselves. Sometimes I wonder if Sun would whine about Microsoft as much as they do if Sun had the number 1 selling OS. Just my opinion, but I think it's a good one. Aaron Manns
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way
is Redhat Linux Professional Server any different from what you can download for free. If so how can they get away with that? Funnily enough this is the second time I've been asked this in a month, and what I reckon is... It comes complete ready to install with tested kernel patches and admin/config for ip clustering failover with heartbeat monitoring. It includes support, including support for this extra stuff. For deploying clusters it is a more predictable baseline to work from than applying patches to several machines by hand. It doesn't (AFAIK) include any proprietery code, but all the elements have (I presume) been tested together and selected to provide reliability and stability. The opportunity cost of not buying it is time spent designing a stable configuration of these additional patches and programmes, and the cost of accepting the blame if your home-spun set-up fails in action. As the commercial target market for any high availability solution is *by definition* seeking reliability a reputable tested/testable product with support guarentees is likely to prove more attractive than an un-proven bespoke offering. Organisations which understand the software will benefit financially from replicating the set-up used by RedHat, but only if they are confident enough to take the risk. d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Micael, I am sorry that you think of yourself as one to be believed as dim-witted, because I know that I never inferred anything of the sort. Do you have some issues you would like to talk about?. Isn't it ironic how everyone continues bash MicroSoft because they make such horrible products, yet everyone wanted the sourcecode released. If it is such garbage, why would anyone want it??? clip God, some people! clip As for my comments being worth the time saying, you and James did read them and feel a need to respond. So maybe they were worth it after all. Personally, I don't really want or need to see Microsoft's code. What I would like to see is their file formats, protocols and APIs being documented so that other developers, open-source or otherwise, can interoperate and compete with their products. Then I can choose to use or not to use Microsoft products as I please. I'd also like to see all that provided royalty free and unencumbered by patents, submarine or otherwise. I haven't really flirted with the whole C#/.NET thing but this seems to remain a question mark over Mono and even the ECMA standardization. Anyway, back to more pleasant dreams ... Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
clip I don't really want or need to see Microsoft's code. What I would like to see is their file formats, protocols and APIs being documented so that other developers, open-source or otherwise, can interoperate and compete with their products clip I agree!! Conor MacNeill conor@cortexebusine To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] ss.com.au cc: Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way 12/10/02 08:26 AM Please respond to Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Micael, I am sorry that you think of yourself as one to be believed as dim-witted, because I know that I never inferred anything of the sort. Do you have some issues you would like to talk about?. Isn't it ironic how everyone continues bash MicroSoft because they make such horrible products, yet everyone wanted the sourcecode released. If it is such garbage, why would anyone want it??? clip God, some people! clip As for my comments being worth the time saying, you and James did read them and feel a need to respond. So maybe they were worth it after all. Personally, I don't really want or need to see Microsoft's code. What I would like to see is their file formats, protocols and APIs being documented so that other developers, open-source or otherwise, can interoperate and compete with their products. Then I can choose to use or not to use Microsoft products as I please. I'd also like to see all that provided royalty free and unencumbered by patents, submarine or otherwise. I haven't really flirted with the whole C#/.NET thing but this seems to remain a question mark over Mono and even the ECMA standardization. Anyway, back to more pleasant dreams ... Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Hi Aaron, -Mensaje original- De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Asunto: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way Geir, I appreciate the intelligent response. I have a question though, what happens when you pour your heart and soul into building a product, and make it so user friendly that not many people need support? Now your product is open source and everyone is getting it for free so nobody is buying you 'commercial' version and you can't sell enough support to earn a living? If you have the ability to do such a feat, you will be worshipped. You will be able to earn a living just by giving lectures. Write a book about software development, and you will have enough royalties for the rest of your life. And with a little luck, Microsoft will make you an offer you can't refuse... Make a crippled port of their software to BSD! Un saludo, Alex.
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Alex, Point taken, but I not talking about some enormous enterprise OS/networking/DB system. but more of a small (able to be developed my myself and a friend or 2) application. Perhaps an accounting app, dr office software, or warehouse inventory controller. if a programmer can sell 10,000 for $20 each. they would be doing pretty well, instead of someone just downloading it and you see nothing for your work. I feel that the interface of your product mean more than the code. If someone wants to develope an automatic order system to work with your warehouse controller then it is more important that they have a way to interact with the generated date than it is to have the code. but most small businesses don't need a huge generic DB, and possibly would be more inclined to buy a small specialized product. Why would they buy the cow if they can get the milk for free? Aaron Fernandez Martinez, AlejandroTo: 'Jakarta General List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] a.fernandez.martinez@iberm cc: atica.comSubject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way 12/10/02 09:13 AM Please respond to Jakarta General List Hi Aaron, -Mensaje original- De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Asunto: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way Geir, I appreciate the intelligent response. I have a question though, what happens when you pour your heart and soul into building a product, and make it so user friendly that not many people need support? Now your product is open source and everyone is getting it for free so nobody is buying you 'commercial' version and you can't sell enough support to earn a living? If you have the ability to do such a feat, you will be worshipped. You will be able to earn a living just by giving lectures. Write a book about software development, and you will have enough royalties for the rest of your life. And with a little luck, Microsoft will make you an offer you can't refuse... Make a crippled port of their software to BSD! Un saludo, Alex. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way
I'd also like to see all that provided royalty free and unencumbered by patents, submarine or otherwise. I haven't really flirted with the whole C#/.NET thing but this seems to remain a question mark over Mono and even the ECMA standardization. C# is just another language, without .NET and the common-language-whateveritscalled its nothing special, M$'s plan looks like being to try to fool us into using C# because its more free than java, and watch us all roll up to but Visual Studio C# .NET whatever. They'll also expect to see people buying operating systems to deploy the applications on. IMO any attempt to build competitive platforms for compiled C# is doomed to fail because M$ is well known for moving the goal posts fast and far, always changing the rules of the game to stay one step ahead. That they can use such a strategy at all is enough proof for me that they hold an unhealthy monopoly over certain sectors of corporate IT, whatever any judge might say. d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
The first boot from a heroin dealer is always free. 8^) Chuck i take care :D also, if the community decided to make things in C# then you should give Python, Eifel, COBOL, FORTRAN, ASSEMBLY, and any programming language a try, and compile all programs into these languages too, heh we have time! :s i say this because all of them have a good reason to exist such as the reasons C# has ;) Best Regards all mohammad :) _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Avalon has already ported some of their framework code to C# I believe. It is in CVS. - Dan Bob Johnson wrote: Thanks Andy for the links. The Question I have for everybody here is does anyone have any interest in Porting any of the other jakarta projects to C# so that they may be able to run on Mono/Linux/windows .Net/Micorsoft ? I have been experimenting with Mono/MCS Microsoft/CSC for a few months. I like Mono and I think it is surprisingly fast. Andy if you need any help with a possible POIFS http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/poifs port I would be more than happy to going you if you dont mind another person who wants to learn more about C# working with you. Bob - Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Thanks Jon. Here's the link. http://www.sys-con.com/java/article.cfm?id=1714 Its an okay article. Could be a bit more in-depth I suppose, but I imagine all the people who could write that are under gag order. And if you're really depressed... Here's a quick how to for doing C#/Mono by yours truly: http://www.freeroller.net/page/acoliver/20021129 *I'm home with Mono* -Andy Jon Scott Stevens wrote: Great guest editorial article (no web link yet it seems) in the November Java Developers Journal that I suggest you read. It briefly outlines how the JCP is screwing up the way that Sun manages Java. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
From : mohammad nabil [EMAIL PROTECTED] i will leave Apache system if you used any Micro$oft products. when you support Micro$oft you help in KILLING an open source project :'( From someone using a msn.com email account... -Vladimir -- Vladimir R. Bossicard www.bossicard.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
i disagree. C# is just a language, it is != .net. there are many pieces to the .net puzzle that you can be sure microsoft will never release to open source or a true standards body. If Apache commits to C#, it would do nothing but lend credibility to Micro$oft and .net in the eyes of uninformed people. Microsoft will not let Mono succeed no matter what they are saying now; if Mono can do the entire .net platform, how does micro$oft make money? Sun sells hardware, and if they can make money off licensing java, that is just gravy, although they would like to start making more software because of the higher margins. Sun can not stop the open source java movement as it is too mature and their customers are sensitive to it. And how many companies would actually roll out Mono when Micro$oft has patents all over the .net stuff that they could sue over at any moment. And they have a proven track record of sh*ting all over people moving in on their turf. sorry for the rant... --- Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/12/02 1:00 James Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Question I have for everybody here is does anyone have any interest in Porting any of the other jakarta projects to C# so that they may be able to run on Mono/Linux/windows .Net/Micorsoft ? what this sppose to mean ppl, why want you to support C#! Sticky issue, but from one perspective you could say that C# / CL* have more potential to be an open platform than java at the moment, considering that Microsoft has submitted most of the base platform to ECMA, while Sun still has a strangle-hold on Java... Being involved with the JCP quite closely, yes, I tend to agree... And since now C# is also available for OS/X, well, I'm game! :-) Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] = An easy read on your Digital Rights Disappearing [http://newsforge.com/newsforge/02/10/21/1449250.shtml?tid=19] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
on 2002/12/6 2:07 AM, Vladimir R. Bossicard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From : mohammad nabil [EMAIL PROTECTED] i will leave Apache system if you used any Micro$oft products. when you support Micro$oft you help in KILLING an open source project :'( From someone using a msn.com email account... -Vladimir -- Vladimir R. Bossicard www.bossicard.com Nice catch. =) -jon -- StudioZ.tv /\ Bar/Nightclub/Entertainment 314 11th Street @ Folsom /\ San Francisco http://studioz.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
From : mohammad nabil [EMAIL PROTECTED] i will leave Apache system if you used any Micro$oft products. when you support Micro$oft you help in KILLING an open source project :'( From someone using a msn.com email account... -Vladimir it is for free Mr.Colombo Holmez :) why not?!! ;) -Mohammad :) _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
it is for free Mr.Colombo Holmez :) why not?!! ;) There are other free email accounts (like yahoo! - running on FreeBSD) Don't you think that there is a correlation between the number of msn.com users and how much M$ charges for ads on its msn.com website, and reselling your address so that you can receive more spam ? Don't you think it's _helping_ M$? If you don't like M$, don't use their products. Even if they are free. M$ never gives things for free anyway. -Vladimir -- Vladimir R. Bossicard www.bossicard.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Being involved with the JCP quite closely, yes, I tend to agree... And since now C# is also available for OS/X, well, I'm game! :-) Me too, I may have to learn c# anyway to continue doing stuff for a client of mine who is abandoning OS in favour of M$*. Plus I'd be happy to help OS C# projects make the most of the difference between ECMA and M$. * Apparently IBM are unlikely to get a websphere sale on account of their sales guys not really seeming to know what it was they were selling, and in spite of going in as the hot favourite. d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way
At 04:31 PM 12/6/2002 +, you wrote: Being involved with the JCP quite closely, yes, I tend to agree... And since now C# is also available for OS/X, well, I'm game! :-) Me too. Not much else to do to protect oneself actually. I don't buy into all the talk that Sun is being stupid, since I don't know what I would do either, but I do know that learning C# cannot hurt. Micael --- This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
M$ clearly has financial motives. What they are should be clarified. At 08:16 AM 12/6/2002 -0800, you wrote: it is for free Mr.Colombo Holmez :) why not?!! ;) There are other free email accounts (like yahoo! - running on FreeBSD) Don't you think that there is a correlation between the number of msn.com users and how much M$ charges for ads on its msn.com website, and reselling your address so that you can receive more spam ? Don't you think it's _helping_ M$? If you don't like M$, don't use their products. Even if they are free. M$ never gives things for free anyway. -Vladimir -- Vladimir R. Bossicard www.bossicard.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Micael --- This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way
M$ clearly has financial motives. What they are should be clarified. You are saying that as if Sun does not. Any business will ALWAYS have financial motives, and Sun is near the top of the list, along with M$. Scott -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Thank you. Is there anything wrong with earning a living? As software developers, our salaries have to come from somewhere. --Steve - Original Message - From: Scott Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 1:55 PM Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way M$ clearly has financial motives. What they are should be clarified. You are saying that as if Sun does not. Any business will ALWAYS have financial motives, and Sun is near the top of the list, along with M$. Scott -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Sometimes I just cannot figure out how some peoples' minds work. Yes, Steve, there is nothing wrong with earning a living. You have a safe haven with that opinion. And, our salaries do have to come from somewhere. That too is correct. If anyone disagrees, don't pay attention to them. We STILL need, however, to clarify what is going on, or we will be as little mice getting eaten by the cat. I personally am a bit adrift in understanding what M$ is up to here. I would really appreciate learning more from the insights of people on this list, so that I can have nothing wrong with me earning a living WITH SOME INTELLIGENCE behind my decisions. That is the point. You probably knew that, however. I encourage people to speak up with their opinions about the present situation, so that I can make a better judgment about what to do. M$ is not looking out for me, that I am sure about. At 02:10 PM 12/6/2002 -0500, you wrote: Thank you. Is there anything wrong with earning a living? As software developers, our salaries have to come from somewhere. --Steve - Original Message - From: Scott Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 1:55 PM Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way M$ clearly has financial motives. What they are should be clarified. You are saying that as if Sun does not. Any business will ALWAYS have financial motives, and Sun is near the top of the list, along with M$. Scott -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Micael --- This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Ive been reading this thread and I think it is a bit humorous that some people think that companies that use the open source groupies to generate thier income are not just as minipulative as the proprietary ones. clip. M$ is not looking out for me, that I am sure about. clip. neither is Sun, nor Redhat, nor Debian,... I love open source and the idea of a bunch of people working together for a common goal, but I also think that if someone wants to make a living off of selling thier product, and not support, then they should be allowed to keep their code to themselves. Sometimes I wonder if Sun would whine about Microsoft as much as they do if Sun had the number 1 selling OS. Just my opinion, but I think it's a good one. Aaron Manns -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way
the number 1 selling OS In case anyone hasn't seen this yet, I've attached the source code to Windows 2000. -- James Mitchell -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:37 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way Ive been reading this thread and I think it is a bit humorous that some people think that companies that use the open source groupies to generate thier income are not just as minipulative as the proprietary ones. clip. M$ is not looking out for me, that I am sure about. clip. neither is Sun, nor Redhat, nor Debian,... I love open source and the idea of a bunch of people working together for a common goal, but I also think that if someone wants to make a living off of selling thier product, and not support, then they should be allowed to keep their code to themselves. Sometimes I wonder if Sun would whine about Microsoft as much as they do if Sun had the number 1 selling OS. Just my opinion, but I think it's a good one. Aaron Manns -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] win2000.h Description: Binary data -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Jakarta is I think Java. But Apache is C. It would be nice to have a subproject on Apache that is C#. Not sure how PMC would like it. Honestly, mavnet.sf.net, and Mono could be good for Java. And it more clients go M$ away from $un, at least there is some cool software. CLR runs on BSD and OSX, it's ECMA. On Java we are waiting on Kava. Realy, one day maybe a YACC for a base language for C# and Java. Set a switch an it gens Java, filp it back and it gens C#. Also see a good theserverside.com discussion on topic. .V Danny Angus wrote: Being involved with the JCP quite closely, yes, I tend to agree... And since now C# is also available for OS/X, well, I'm game! :-) Me too, I may have to learn c# anyway to continue doing stuff for a client of mine who is abandoning OS in favour of M$*. Plus I'd be happy to help OS C# projects make the most of the difference between ECMA and M$. * Apparently IBM are unlikely to get a websphere sale on account of their sales guys not really seeming to know what it was they were selling, and in spite of going in as the hot favourite. d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way [PATCH]
In true Apache fashion please consider this patch.. ;-) -Original Message- From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] the number 1 selling OS In case anyone hasn't seen this yet, I've attached the source code to Windows 2000. cvs -z9 diff -u win2000.h Index: win2000.h === RCS file: C:\win2000.h,v retrieving revision 1.1 diff -u -r1.1 win2000.h --- win2000.h 6 Dec 2002 23:06:33 - 1.1 +++ win2000.h 6 Dec 2002 23:07:40 - @@ -64,7 +64,7 @@ /* printf(Welcome to Windows NT 4.0); */ printf(Welcome to Windows 2000); - if (system_ok()) + if (!system_ok()) crash(to_dos_prompt) else system_memory = open(a:\swp0001.swp, O_CREATE); -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way
That is funny James. I really wonder if Aaron can truly believe we are so dim-witted or that anything he said was worth the time saying. God, some people! Micael At 03:14 PM 12/6/2002 -0800, you wrote: the number 1 selling OS In case anyone hasn't seen this yet, I've attached the source code to Windows 2000. -- James Mitchell -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:37 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way Ive been reading this thread and I think it is a bit humorous that some people think that companies that use the open source groupies to generate thier income are not just as minipulative as the proprietary ones. clip. M$ is not looking out for me, that I am sure about. clip. neither is Sun, nor Redhat, nor Debian,... I love open source and the idea of a bunch of people working together for a common goal, but I also think that if someone wants to make a living off of selling thier product, and not support, then they should be allowed to keep their code to themselves. Sometimes I wonder if Sun would whine about Microsoft as much as they do if Sun had the number 1 selling OS. Just my opinion, but I think it's a good one. Aaron Manns -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Micael --- This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom this electronic mail transmission was sent as indicated above. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete the message. Thank you -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 08:57 AM, mohammad nabil wrote: From : mohammad nabil [EMAIL PROTECTED] i will leave Apache system if you used any Micro$oft products. when you support Micro$oft you help in KILLING an open source project :'( From someone using a msn.com email account... -Vladimir it is for free Mr.Colombo Holmez :) why not?!! ;) The first boot from a heroin dealer is always free. 8^) Chuck -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Thanks Andy for the links. The Question I have for everybody here is does anyone have any interest in Porting any of the other jakarta projects to C# so that they may be able to run on Mono/Linux/windows .Net/Micorsoft ? I have been experimenting with Mono/MCS Microsoft/CSC for a few months. I like Mono and I think it is surprisingly fast. Andy if you need any help with a possible POIFS http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/poifs port I would be more than happy to going you if you dont mind another person who wants to learn more about C# working with you. Bob - Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Thanks Jon. Here's the link. http://www.sys-con.com/java/article.cfm?id=1714 Its an okay article. Could be a bit more in-depth I suppose, but I imagine all the people who could write that are under gag order. And if you're really depressed... Here's a quick how to for doing C#/Mono by yours truly: http://www.freeroller.net/page/acoliver/20021129 *I'm home with Mono* -Andy Jon Scott Stevens wrote: Great guest editorial article (no web link yet it seems) in the November Java Developers Journal that I suggest you read. It briefly outlines how the JCP is screwing up the way that Sun manages Java. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
hi all, i'm really so sad for this The Question I have for everybody here is does anyone have any interest in Porting any of the other jakarta projects to C# so that they may be able to run on Mono/Linux/windows .Net/Micorsoft ? what this sppose to mean ppl, why want you to support C#! ok, if so, then long live Mr.Miscro$of and make me suffer for paying you extra money for buggy software :( by the way, don't forget to change it from Apache Software Foundation to .Net Apache Software Foundation :P i will leave Apache system if you used any Micro$oft products. when you support Micro$oft you help in KILLING an open source project :'( best regards, Mohammad Nabil From: Bob Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 09:26:03 -0500 Thanks Andy for the links. The Question I have for everybody here is does anyone have any interest in Porting any of the other jakarta projects to C# so that they may be able to run on Mono/Linux/windows .Net/Micorsoft ? I have been experimenting with Mono/MCS Microsoft/CSC for a few months. I like Mono and I think it is surprisingly fast. Andy if you need any help with a possible POIFS http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/poifs port I would be more than happy to going you if you dont mind another person who wants to learn more about C# working with you. Bob - Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Thanks Jon. Here's the link. http://www.sys-con.com/java/article.cfm?id=1714 Its an okay article. Could be a bit more in-depth I suppose, but I imagine all the people who could write that are under gag order. And if you're really depressed... Here's a quick how to for doing C#/Mono by yours truly: http://www.freeroller.net/page/acoliver/20021129 *I'm home with Mono* -Andy Jon Scott Stevens wrote: Great guest editorial article (no web link yet it seems) in the November Java Developers Journal that I suggest you read. It briefly outlines how the JCP is screwing up the way that Sun manages Java. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
The Question I have for everybody here is does anyone have any interest in Porting any of the other jakarta projects to C# so that they may be able to run on Mono/Linux/windows .Net/Micorsoft ? what this sppose to mean ppl, why want you to support C#! Sticky issue, but from one perspective you could say that C# / CL* have more potential to be an open platform than java at the moment, considering that Microsoft has submitted most of the base platform to ECMA, while Sun still has a strangle-hold on Java... ok, if so, then long live Mr.Miscro$of and make me suffer for paying you extra money for buggy software :( by the way, don't forget to change it from Apache Software Foundation to .Net Apache Software Foundation :P The foundation is platform and language agnostic already, they own / steward projects written in C / Java / Perl / Python / ... and that run on many many platforms. i will leave Apache system if you used any Micro$oft products. when you support Micro$oft you help in KILLING an open source project :'( To be fair, it may be possible to implement CL* version of various projects without using or requiring any Microsoft product. Especially the many useful server side components that live at Jakarta. You might look at NLucene as an example. I'd investigate the relationship between Microsoft and the pieces of the .NET platform before becoming too upset about this. You might be surprised (or I might be =) But really, as long as someone is interested in doing the work, more quality software that gives more people more options is not a bad thing. --jt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
On 6/12/02 1:00 James Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Question I have for everybody here is does anyone have any interest in Porting any of the other jakarta projects to C# so that they may be able to run on Mono/Linux/windows .Net/Micorsoft ? what this sppose to mean ppl, why want you to support C#! Sticky issue, but from one perspective you could say that C# / CL* have more potential to be an open platform than java at the moment, considering that Microsoft has submitted most of the base platform to ECMA, while Sun still has a strangle-hold on Java... Being involved with the JCP quite closely, yes, I tend to agree... And since now C# is also available for OS/X, well, I'm game! :-) Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sun Is Losing Its Way
Great guest editorial article (no web link yet it seems) in the November Java Developers Journal that I suggest you read. It briefly outlines how the JCP is screwing up the way that Sun manages Java. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Thanks Jon. Here's the link. http://www.sys-con.com/java/article.cfm?id=1714 Its an okay article. Could be a bit more in-depth I suppose, but I imagine all the people who could write that are under gag order. And if you're really depressed... Here's a quick how to for doing C#/Mono by yours truly: http://www.freeroller.net/page/acoliver/20021129 *I'm home with Mono* -Andy Jon Scott Stevens wrote: Great guest editorial article (no web link yet it seems) in the November Java Developers Journal that I suggest you read. It briefly outlines how the JCP is screwing up the way that Sun manages Java. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
