Re: [gentoo-dev] Paid support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: MD5 Chris Gianelloni wrote: > On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 23:50 -0400, Curtis Napier wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: MD5 >> >> I'm in support of having a list of devs who want to do paid support. >> Anything that helps people eat is OK in my book. ;) >> >> On the other hand, I think we need to have the foundation run this past >> our lawyer(s) and make sure we have our i's dotted and out t's crossed. >> I would hate for something good like this to cause us problems down the >> road. > > Umm... The Foundation has zero to do with a contract between two third > parties. Let me give you an example. I am currently doing paid "Gentoo > work" for a company, who will remain nameless. I filled out paperwork > with the company. My being a member of the Gentoo Foundation, a > Trustee, or anything else, has exactly zero bearing on my being > contracted, as an individual, to a company. > >> I know christel is consulting with an accountant about adpot-a-dev, >> maybe she can throw this in as well? > > Do we have to do some special law-abiding dance to have sponsors listed > on the site? What about advertisers? > > What Christel is researching is the tax law related to individuals > receiving gifts. It has no bearing on the Foundation itself. > > Let's look at this another way. We have advertisers that sell Gentoo > servers and Gentoo-based services. How exactly is this any different? > Is it because they're developers? How does that matter? In the end, > the contract is entirely between two third-party entities, the > developer, and whomever contracts him. It isn't like the Foundation is > offering services. It isn't. The individual developers are offering > services. The Foundation is not any of our employer. We are not bound > by any legal contract to the Foundation, and it has no ties to us. > Giving ad space to our sponsors is legal for us to do as a Not For Profit because they are donating goods and/or services to us. Technically we are not giving them "ads", we are acknowledging the donated goods and/or services. Just like PBS does at the beginning of it's shows, they aren't ads but acknowledgments of donations. Basically I just want to make sure that we are not breaking any of the rules of being a Not For Profit foundation. The IRS doesn't accept "We didn't know any better" as an excuse when they come knocking on our door to re-evaluate our Not For Profit status because we are giving free advertising to people who *ARE* being paid in a For Profit manner. And if the IRS changes our status we *may* be liable for back taxes. I know I'm the only one who ever says anything about the legality of what we do and always brings the Foundation into it but let's face facts: The Gentoo web properties are owned and operated by the Gentoo Foundation which means that those web properties MUST follow the law concerning Not For Profit. If no one else is concerned about it then I'll drop it but when the day comes and the IRS is a knockin' don't look at me. Besides, what can it hurt to have one of the Foundation Trustees ask one of our lawyers about it? - --Curtis -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBRQIxOEb8Q0uRCeTQAQFDMggAzP8sLxQ1btrjo6OioDxEgU65nvCSNfT0 Qn8gDxlcPA5HtRZA5c3Rw2uM2sCC55C2tW3SVoa5EJFH9Gs/cnzNkAdNeW8HaQTD ErG9WvZKsI/fvax1JHIgBTq03p81WxIY9GFc6olCdr0BgFptiZIx2kPaxZ+6q/wY 0Zv1nzzvet3lmM2ZYet35vds0WrhyHrqAvUcvlcgcz6gmlsmOXlS/WXazRi8636T 5yytNzfV7pdsf3t2BF+n3Cg93kiF2x4u2OV/rPUFWHpkzpjoTB5XNEgogelrDMQn wBhxbN4LE96mc/Km+vD7Mt8cBU/8UFmn1wMKyVGsLS6xReADkD4+Ew== =7+lW -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Paid support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: MD5 I'm in support of having a list of devs who want to do paid support. Anything that helps people eat is OK in my book. ;) On the other hand, I think we need to have the foundation run this past our lawyer(s) and make sure we have our i's dotted and out t's crossed. I would hate for something good like this to cause us problems down the road. I know christel is consulting with an accountant about adpot-a-dev, maybe she can throw this in as well? - --Curtis ps. I didn't read every message in the thread, sorry if I'm repeating stuff that's already been covered. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBRP+W7kb8Q0uRCeTQAQElJggAvAOIq5cnRqAXgjGUJPpQv3VuQuLPAGY6 HTVRDC24kP3yeOCy7+lyFgwZ9qV90w36zMzAVYHmQzXqVVqjWxKp06HTD+L/3Di+ PEBvtnYSYeeSnooZ0Q8hMqiwCOaImJBImTRh3X/8Y1Omjhvz0+Yw2IPuvmBjyD+D aAYPOLuqcDP1GUogPv+rBYCQXCU8YrqPJu8AjM0nWktSzgWvxdJC7xDI7IYlmcB3 gUc+arxb9edVOFUZH4nF8ZkhbHWw3R4i104Jd60oCSKdsXo1gBdCb7CwAGeSpVdI N+qbGYuCsgdGa4f3lMfeuT5/jU7H5phEFEjFobu9S//4nWivx3NIHQ== =8+RA -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: multiple inheritance support for profiles
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: MD5 Alec Warner wrote: > Ciaran McCreesh wrote: >> On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:54:41 -0500 Andrew Gaffney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> | It will also cause QA problems, since the profiles wouldn't be >> | strictly controlled by the arch teams and releng anymore. >> >> Uh, that's easily solved. Demand that anyone changing non-arch profile >> things gets prior approval from -dev, and string up anyone who doesn't. >> > > I think moreso he meants that users could mix in stupid stuff together > and then blame Gentoo. But users can already do all sorts of stupid things and blame gentoo. In fact, they already do. Just look at bugzilla or ask jakub. As long as we continue to enforce the posting of emerge --info on bugs this shouldn't be a problem. Any bug submitted with a user-screwed-it-up profile can just be closed with a WONTFIX and a short explanation of what they did wrong. Just like we do it now for a million other things. Let's not hold anyones hand, let them make their mistakes and learn from them. That philosophy is at the heart of Gentoo and the main reason I use it. - --curtis -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBRN57U0b8Q0uRCeTQAQEjJQf/RfD9Jsf1ODBdsoEXDak8W6OeJesiNLZq mDqV7ZWXhV1OtbPz1zYGxVeiAfpcNVNuPlvEmPuP5T1eQ7z5bPEr18w22wpzm0tn itXvo7iqUQBu6QydtG0ly8ZKJVQAeXp5kqb48oTxLSg+Y13/hJ2BSNZCrLgNG0RB mJjFT+Wb4QFK8UzREXuluTl9SxwBPpIGJc67aZVa0T1ZhF/tw1ojwSNIRO0CCm19 3YK2plPzTyLge8KjFvNEN6ql7gTbHZ3fvAJ+ANvX2MWiMLT8egrrLpCIq+SsYyZi Q2I6GOKA7V1SwcrrPaCSlk92ASuUqznYK/kF3DZQXsyupXTVBv6R2A== =ONew -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: MD5 Grant Goodyear wrote: > Well, we don't yet have reliable software in place to _count_ votes, > but that's no reason not to start collecting them. The polls are now > open, and will remain so until UTC 20060911 (one month). To vote, > log into dev.g.o and type "votify --help" for instructions. If you run > into any problems, please let me know. All current devs are eligible to > vote. **All current devs are eligible to vote.** This includes Staff as well. Staff is anyone with an @gentoo.org address who doesn't have commit access to the ebuild tree. People like Forums, Bug Wranglers, Infra, Devrel, Userrel, etc... - --Curtis ps. thanks for getting the election process going and staying on top of it Grant. We all appreciate it. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBRNubFUb8Q0uRCeTQAQFEawgAyWxt750f0OX3TV5yWxcLJBU6gAq36SSL SwIB/eJpQZLqpwB4XQ3NhWIxfULX9FhIRKbqbXP3t+Gn/1BjoGaEic7RM7VybWAs 9pRoXzLPUpHVkPRgJ3WZTrl1MHna6wNU/NrCJWLDlcOFzSsaQrffJWAyInU9wsIC 8fFxg8R6mJ6r2iyRggTQ+rpHDSMXdEeMy/SqNm2VptTti/vuXj60bpiwQsFtWQQM s7pqW9Jtay6RpBJta3x1LtIaoI1SAZ0MPuvyOQDsJulJ5MbrsnV/Q0LAXgGWXa1x SFJvAdTEg+z7ueMTwgEkWxjOOXQcWhUN5LnC1q30wjutdpFAZbb3/w== =TtvN -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Proposal for advanced useflag-syntax
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: MD5 Enrico Weigelt wrote: > * Lance Albertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > > > >>> And what does this flag exactly say at this point ? >>> >>> Install only xlib ? >>> Install xlib and some further ones ? Which ones ? >>> Install all libs ? >> Opening an ebuild and reading it must be hard. > > Not what I asked. I'm talking about what an user can expect to get. > You don't expect every user to look trough each ebuilt, seriously ? > Yes, he is completely serious. If you are unwilling to read the documentation (which includes the actual ebuilds themselves) then you are going to have a broken system. Nothing any of us can do for you but keep repeating the same mantra "RTFM". By the way, Gentoo has a reputation for providing the *BEST* documentation of any other distro. Many distros actually point their users to Gentoo docs/forums for answers. Why aren't you utilizing this awesome resource? Do you know how many man hours we put into those docs? Every question you have asked so far is already answered in one of our documentation resources.. Please stop wasting everyones time and do as we ask - RTFM. - --Curtis -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBRNkAlUb8Q0uRCeTQAQFLqwf/b4Y1zam3UD5X7OUg5qg6/CCyjFAQIDp6 ArqzZt+UL2ZnsTi4hw904lLF6ao0EAFL1z4HQbtK9KtovR6JdgHxAb2cE4dMnZ8z 0Hkc0snISmlha7f/h06+fLjRBUT5KNPJkPzDLToQSL7hLwYVqd31pjCykyC8QcBA 4n1VqaUzz03it3yDCI1LyXPTBb9BQ9J972xWPxmjWyiU4BMSE3HF/EWaTEm1svN6 +D5PzrpUnll7iD4s4DtTongQolBaWiUUGnxdkAbxPE1PD0oQ6g1R/RlW8LvoRuXR XCB5jN05WWcWUnxYomZGD7JBk+ymPlhREAMg1O/iiNFL//chAgsI4Q== =I+T+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Re: Masking practics
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: MD5 Enrico Weigelt wrote: > * Steve Dibb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > > > >> [ebuild UD] sys-apps/coreutils-5.2.1-r7 [5.94-r1] USE="-acl -build >> -nls -static" 0 kB >> >> Total size of downloads: 0 kB >> >> See the little "D"? >> >> It's not big, it's not fat, but it's warning you. :) > > Not actually an eye-catching. > > To be fair, do *you* actually look through *all* the emerge > output if there's any "D" flag, without the risk of overlooking > it someday ? Yes. I look at the entire output of emerge -pv *EVERY* single time. Not doing so would be insane and I would get what I deserve... a broken system. > > Why can't emerge shout out some more verbose text ? Something > really eye-catching ? > How much more eye-catching does it need to be? It's color coded in a column along the left hand side of the screen in a nice format that is easily parse-able and grep-able. You don't even have to scan left to right when reading it! It's obvious to me that you haven't been a long time Gentoo user. All of the issues you have brought up in the several different threads are all mistakes that n00bs make when changing their Linux Admin paradigm to the Gentoo Way(tm). We see a thousand questions a year just like yours in the forums from new Gentoo users. Every single one of those users comes back in a few months and recants once they get a good understanding of what they are doing and how powerful Gentoo actually is. Once you use it for a while you will find that the current system (USE, SLOTs, etc...) is *extremely* powerful and flexible from just about any POV. No binary distro can beat it. - --Curtis -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBRNguEUb8Q0uRCeTQAQFmyAgAqUxtDU2HP0UPunU9yvvxL4ab3LqYsOF5 zHqn8gqZyU0zMoY57JkwulyjQfRVMg9VuZ/D9+Rel6eqsJ1GXVRbyyOx9mK80hnP mYbT7q1kuH3pwSXzmmNn8MN5gKvTVJUVSfmdYn/ZhiXmnMTQOjCoLfoGSS4vfdpK R82WQWJ/ozw4um6kVyci1M3JVdQSmaPxFDgUrU6Y9+LzbnzBcalW8ns1oVIRL6Za 0XGfZcDRtVIlGzUKcimhRxzucaGu3Ua8ySIC2R+y0WnSBUAUI6qiVQ0A5TUYiynZ PFB9Zhwr6LDk4Itkxh1UfL70igLWv61GQxpML+Bysx3eMo2EY9JYlQ== =5OM1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for August
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: MD5 Curtis Napier wrote: > > Yes indeed it is impressive hardware at a pretty kickass facility :) > > I got to chat with the CEO of the company that donated that equipment > and the wait was *more* than worth it. Once it's up and running our > bugzilla will be rock solid and fast fast fast fast fast for years to come. > > Web front end: > > 1 x IBM HS20's > Dual 3.2GHz XEON 2MB Cache > 2048 DDR2 ECC RAM > Dual 73GB SCSI 320 HDD > > Database: > > 2 x IBM HS20's > Dual 3.2GHz XEON 2MB Cache > 4096 DDR2 ECC RAM > Dual 73GB SCSI 320 HDD > Qlogic 4Gb/s Fiber controller > 10GB SAN LUN > > > They donate a lot of other equipment to us as well. Thanks goes to > http://365main.com > Correction. http://www.gni.com is the company doing the donating. 365main is the building where the boxes are located. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBRNMOVUb8Q0uRCeTQAQH5FAgAvQjW9qzwk0tukJNSGZz/ZEKORZgmCSPN CdUtHmkdgagRCNyMOOQHtoW2jnqT7qqmlOKownuqA9JOnYt9Ks59g5Amu1mqfdp6 KaG5Gk2L7OCcJMBOR9Qb78O9WRWFjnD2c/JRHeT3OC3DAJ/C+M0cO3b1cQHLcVWK DbiocdmU0Mine7fA6RcNseKxr0686yVRsiOKrZhB1Fc4Da2gUvwMBGX85bKlfybk 2XXzjvK5nroj2LOi1OPeEXiS/F5gEx0E6YCrlIAiHg/Zlw5E6Lj2iivv11AjNs2k j8AcBRvE9NXwA2Ougvle8AeYdySytmDnT0IljKUlHw32wkd6xk8XPQ== =kJ5x -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for August
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: MD5 Ned Ludd wrote: > On Thu, 2006-08-03 at 08:06 -0500, Lance Albertson wrote: >> Ned Ludd wrote: >>> On Thu, 2006-08-03 at 11:21 +0200, Jakub Moc wrote: Mike Frysinger wrote: > This is your monthly friendly reminder ! Same bat time (typically the > 2nd Thursday once a month), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @ > irc.freenode.net) ! Would like the Council to discuss the current state of Gentoo Bugzilla [1] and anon CVS/SVN [2]. >>> Please elaborate why you need the council to discuss >>> ongoing active bugs that are in progress. >>> >> I would also like to know why the council has to be involved since >> you've never sent an email to infra specifically asking the same thing >> first. Sure makes sense to me that you should ask the group involved >> with the work first instead of going to the top. >> >> But since I'm typing it now, I might as well answer it. >> >> I finally got the hardware this week for bugs, and I've been working on >> bringing those boxes online. > > And it's impressive hardware at a pretty kickass facility :) > Yes indeed it is impressive hardware at a pretty kickass facility :) I got to chat with the CEO of the company that donated that equipment and the wait was *more* than worth it. Once it's up and running our bugzilla will be rock solid and fast fast fast fast fast for years to come. Web front end: 1 x IBM HS20's Dual 3.2GHz XEON 2MB Cache 2048 DDR2 ECC RAM Dual 73GB SCSI 320 HDD Database: 2 x IBM HS20's Dual 3.2GHz XEON 2MB Cache 4096 DDR2 ECC RAM Dual 73GB SCSI 320 HDD Qlogic 4Gb/s Fiber controller 10GB SAN LUN They donate a lot of other equipment to us as well. Thanks goes to http://365main.com >> If I'm lucky, I'll have them at least >> booting on their own today. >> >> The anoncvs/svn stuff needs the attention of some knowledgeable cvs/svn >> guru. We want to ensure that we cover all our grounds in the setup so >> that we don't make a system that's easily DoS'able. If anyone wants to >> help out with that, please contact KingTaco as he's the contact for that >> project right now. > > It's just about ready afaik. We just want robbat2 to review the CVS > setup and I probably need to drop a patch in the cvs pkg to disable > compression. We probably also want Pylon to review the svn setup. > Very cool. Nice work, thanks. >> Patience is indeed a virtue. > > Indeed.. > indubitably -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBRNML6Eb8Q0uRCeTQAQFnFgf/Rhtr5ttGP9x0BvZVTGHCAMrcWYveC4qK h2TsARRcAMhSqfQi3VOkLSeTN0suFuJxFu0ha8NfxvTYY3g0R5+/2Rin9UHE1jm6 y1EJr/TB1v47YAVidG32Ktac9zLafDCX6mudX3OxPR2JRhjC3PeXLm3NWtyA26FD tOEPyF98SPSawlqEAlbiJMA4GS9uaxKqy9eGtfR61gyEXRarn2RqbOv+Ceb1Sh/t 1tjzRv5lOx/Pr46WKvqGR4RzjmvY7drWdZMzanPcIZKUsdxPnjIdF+2hMfFGd/qf dXaH/UoHjM0XTTVULF4vmxB10SQ9yEA0NVlvpK1wUmjCNy2ZA4huYw== =s4RE -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] viewcvs.gentoo.org
viewcvs.gentoo.org is no more. It has been migrated to sources.gentoo.org and the links on the website have been updated. Thanks neysx and ramereth. --Curtis -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Replacing cpu-feature USE flags
Jory A. Pratt wrote: > Ciaran McCreesh wrote: >>> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:31:56 -0700 Joshua Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> wrote: >>> | Or instead of throwing a hissy fit yourself about diego not agreeing >>> | with you..I don't know you could go and show the way that you feel it >>> | should be done and show the technical merit. Ciaran I will give you >>> | that you are a capable programmer, and had valid arguments in this >>> | thread. However, when interacting with people and proving points on >>> | merits you seem to go out of your way to not prove anything and throw >>> | examples out there without really backing them up. >>> >>> No, I go out of my way to avoid posting hundred page essays explaining >>> things that people already know. If there's really anyone reading this >>> discussion who doesn't understand any of the points being discussed, >>> they're more than welcome to ask for clarification. However, given how >>> basic an issue this is, is it really worth wasting everyone's time with >>> huge explanations of what CFLAGS is? >>> >>> Come on, do you really think anyone will benefit from another >>> http://dev.gentoo.org/~blubb/duncan.pdf ? >>> > > Stephen Bennett wrote: >>> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:31:56 -0700 >>> Joshua Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Or instead of throwing a hissy fit yourself about diego not agreeing with you..I don't know you could go and show the way that you feel it should be done and show the technical merit. >>> He already has done. > > > After reading this thread I can see this is just another one of ciaran's > b.s games that Stephen happens to back. My question is just how far up > ciaran's ass does stephen go. I am begining to think we will never get > to the end if ciaran and his bullshit around gentoo, nor will we ever > get rid of stephen's bullshit around gentoo. But the project continues > to allow such non-sence and wonders why devs are still walking away. > > > I'm not sticking up for Ciaran, he already made his bed and now he's laying in it. I'm sticking up for spb who is a damn good dev and doesn't deserve this kind of bullshit dumped on him. spb works his ass off for this project and is */ALWAYS/* very professional. Just look at the past few threads that he has started where he totally changed his approach based on feedback from everyone (hell, look at ANY technical discussion that spb has ever had regarding Gentoo - not just the last few mail threads). He was professional, listened attentively and made changes based on the feedback that satisfied everyone involved while still solving the problem at hand. Sounds like a damn good developer to me. One I would like to see more of in Gentoo. spb != ciarnm Just my two cents for what it's worth. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Replacing cpu-feature USE flags
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 20:42:27 +0200 "Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò" > > | > Setting CFLAGS and praying is not asking for something. Setting a > | > MY_X86_CPU_DOES_THIS_MKAY variable is asking for something. > | > | And if you know what your CPU does, is it that difficult to tell the > | compiler to use them? > > Yes. That -msse -mnosse2 stuff is a nasty hack, especially when one > remembers that for years we've been screaming at users for doing just > that. > I could find a million threads in the forums supporting what Ciaran is saying here. We have been told over and over and over until my head feels bashed in that MMX/SSE, etc... are NOT TO BE PUT IN CFLAGS!! THAT IS WHAT USE FLAGS ARE FOR Every developer who has ever commented on one of these threads has always agreed with that. Put it in USE not CLFAGS. To change this behavior now after all this time would be crazy IMHO. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: bugs performance issues
Lance Albertson wrote: > Please thank GNI for helping us out! They really deserve a lot for > helping us :). > > Thanks- > > [1] http://www.gni.com/ > Thank you GNI! mmm blade cluster signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Re: GPL and Source code providing
Chris Gianelloni wrote: > On Wed, 2006-07-05 at 09:00 -0400, Chris Gianelloni wrote: [snip] > > Anyway, I really am starting to like the DVD available via the store > idea more and more, as it only means Release Engineering needs to do a > little extra work, and it requires no extra work for our mirrors or > Infrastructure team. > I like this idea as well, especially since it means less work. You mentioned in a previous mail charging only what it cost us to make. If it's decided to go with this idea I think we should mark it up a little, even if it's only a dollar or two. People actually don't mind paying a little if it's going to go towards helping Gentoo. We get tons of threads asking about donating in the forums so this would be a good way to help with that (even if the DVD isn't purchased very often). --Curtis signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] SpanKY's Nominations for the Gentoo Council 2007
Mike Frysinger wrote: > On Saturday 01 July 2006 02:46, Mike Frysinger wrote: >> well it's about that time of the year ... time for nominating >> people for the next Gentoo Council > > i guess i'll start off some mass nominations of random people off the top of > my head who i think would do a good job ... there's a bunch more people i > think would do a good job, but i'm going to cut my list short as it's already > ridiculously long ... > > from current council: > koon / agriffis / azarah / seemant / solar > > some other peeps: > Kugelfang / Ramereth / Mr_Bones / spb / plasmaroo / Weeve / `Kumba / > jaervosz / KingTaco / Flameeyes / dostrow / dsd / kito / exg > > i'd also nominate g2boojum, but i kind of like his current unofficial role as > honorary council adviser guy ... > -mike Two names I see missing from this (otherwise very good) list are Chris Gianelloni (wolf31o2) and Donnie Berkholz (spyderous aka dberkholz). I think everyone knows exactly how much work these two put into Gentoo and how valuable that contribution is. Their knowledge would be a great addition to the council. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] TreeCleaner June Removals
Alec Warner wrote: > dev-libs/nana bug # 32672 -> Removed > x11-wm/blwm bug # 71479 -> Removed > app-editors/gnotepad+ bug # 122993 -> Removed > net-misc/powerd bug # 70373 -> Removed > dev-lisp/cl-clx-sbcl bug # 134623 -> Removed > app-office/gnofin and gnome-extra/gnobog bug # 134624 -> Removed > net-p2p/dc-gui bug # 134630 -> Removed > dev-lisp/cmucl-source bug # 134633 -> Removed > > > package.mask -> Cleaned (also removed perforce from pmask for bug # 123923 Just wanted to say what a great job you've been doing with the Tree Cleaners Project. Keep up the good work, we all appreciate it. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Assigning bugs to treecleaners
Kevin F. Quinn wrote: > On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:54:02 +0200 > Raphael Marichez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> IMHO this seems a good idea. The portage tree is growing every week, >> every month, and it doesn't really suit for the very little systems >> (embedded linux) nowadays. Furthermore, with the old 2.0-portage, the >> syncing and caching had become really long. > > If you want to sync just part of the tree, look into setting '--exclude' > or '--exclude-from' options via PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS in make.conf. > See rsync(1) and make.conf(5). Never tried it myself, but it should > work. > https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-2551222.html signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Forums Staff : NeddySeagoon
Shyam Mani wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Please take a moment to welcome our latest addition to the Forums gang, > Roy Bamford aka NeddySeagoon. Thanks for volunteering your time Roy, we will all benefit from your extensive knowledge and your patience with n00bs. --Curtis signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Heritage
Grant Goodyear wrote: > Curtis Napier wrote: [Tue May 09 2006, 09:49:27PM CDT] >> Larry our wonderful mascot is from a font collection that we DO NOT OWN >> THE COPYRIGHT TOO. Our esteemed ex-architect STOLE Larry. Legally >> speaking we have no rights to use Larry whatsoever and if the owner of >> the copyright ever stumbles onto gentoo.org and sees it we are looking >> at a big fat lawsuit. > > Both Jon and I (separately) addressed this earlier, but I'm pretty sure > that although we don't own the copyright to Larry, the font it is from > has a license that allows us to use it freely. If you have evidence to > the contrary, please let me know, and I'll see what I can do to obtain > any necessary rights. > > -g2boojum- I don't see a license for it anywhere. If we have a copy it would probably be best to have it somewhere easily accessible. Putting it in the images directory on the website makes sense. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: offtopic (was Re: [gentoo-dev] Heritage)
Mike Frysinger wrote: > you get awfully personal awfully fast dont you ...[sic]... > well, you've clearly never met me before, so why dont you learn to keep stupid > and uniformed remarks to yourself, k ? As I previously said, that was only supposed to go to you and not to the list in general. Yes, I got personal very fast. My feelings were hurt and I allowed my emotions to get the better of me in (what I intended to be) a private email. Again, I apologize for that. I should have been more mature about it instead of jumping off like that. I approached you once before about the gay jokes and your reply was that you have a gay roommate and you just sort of brushed it off. I will tell you now what I should have told you back then: I don't mind gay jokes, I love gay jokes. I DO mind the constantly saying "That's gay" as a put down. You obviously mean it to be demeaning like being gay is "Less than", something to be laughed at or something. Every time you (or anyone else for that matter) say "that's gay" as a put down it hurts my feelings. Will you please stop saying it? > > i'm assuming you're referring to Bug 131943 ... which wasnt filed by you or > assigned to you ... looks like a general documentation bug to me > > since the about page was pretty much neutered of any relevant Gentoo structure > information, my closing of it was pretty logical > Difference in interpretation I suppose. It was assigned to "Website www.gentoo.org". I'm www.gentoo.org (along with some other people). I think of it the same way you think of the games herd. Not that it's "Your's" but if someone were to randomly come along and close game bugs that they had nothing previously to do with and that wasn't in the games herd, wouldn't you get a little miffed? Especially if they made a remark that seemed to you to be rude when they closed it? > you really need to get out of this mind frame of the website being "yours" > > it isnt "yours", nor is it "mine" > > it belongs to Gentoo > -mike I never said the website "Belonged to me". However, I am on the team that is working on it so I have a personal connection to it. Not that that makes it "Mine" in any way but I do feel protective of it just like I'm sure you feel about E17 or any of your other projects. In fact, I think I've been pretty open to suggestions and input from the developer community on most of the major issues. Also, I specifically redefined my entire role in this project so that I could work more closely with Infra, neysx and all the other devs that manage our websites. Inviting all those other people to directly help me with the redesign project is something I did specifically because it *isn't* mine and I needed more active input from other devs to help guide it down the proper path. I'm sorry if I changed the pages without asking first. That's what this all boils down too. I got sick of looking at that poster and was making a change to the way the headers worked anyway (in conjunction with neysx) so I just changed it. I didn't ask first and neysx didn't know anything about it. I did post a news item though, I didn't just secretly change it and not say anything. So I'm asking now, if I figure out a cool way to work Larry into the "Classic" design can I take down the poster? Or at the very least change the poster to type and just use the little Larry logo? Please? I'm begging you? With whipped cream and a cherry? --Curtis signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-dev] apology
My last email was only supposed to go to vapier. That was not very professional behavior on a public list, my apologies to Mike Frysinger and to the list in general. signature.asc Description: PGP signature signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-dev] apology
My last email was only supposed to go to vapier. That was not very professional behavior on a public list, my apologies to Mike Frysinger and to the list in general. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Heritage
Mike Frysinger wrote: > i guess your only criticism is that it's stupid ... that's pretty easy to > quantify > -mike Stupid is my subjective opinion but if you want really good reasons for me to drop Larry then heres the only one I need: Larry our wonderful mascot is from a font collection that we DO NOT OWN THE COPYRIGHT TOO. Our esteemed ex-architect STOLE Larry. Legally speaking we have no rights to use Larry whatsoever and if the owner of the copyright ever stumbles onto gentoo.org and sees it we are looking at a big fat lawsuit. How's that for quantification? ps. vapier, making smart ass remarks on MY bugs and closing them without even consulting me first is NOT cool. I already put up with your homophobic bullshit on irc and these lists, I *won't* put up with you touching my bugs when you have *NOTHING* to do with them. Stick to the portage tree and keep your fingers off of my bugs. Understood? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Heritage
I've been around since the beginning and have fond memories of Larry just like the rest of you. I wasn't planning on getting rid of him. In fact, I was planning on using him a little more for other things. I already used him for a custom error page[1] and was planning on working him into other places on the website. Presently the only place Larry is mentioned in any way shape or form is in that stupid (Yes, *STUPID*) poster on the about page. So, since Xavier bothered I will keep the stupid poster upfor now, but it is going away eventually and will be replaced with something better. What that "something better" is I don't know yet but . "something". Just like everything else Gentoo related, it all takes time. So please be patient and don't get overly excited about little changes like this. It will all come together and be professional yet *still* be the wacky website that we all know and love. I promise. --Curtis [1]http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org/error.html signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-dev] Status Reports
As part of an initiative to keep our users up to date the User Relations Project is going to feature a yearly "Status of Gentoo" article in the GWN (hopefully a series of articles if we can gather enough information). This will entail getting all the projects to ensure their respective /proj page is up-to-date and creating a (short) status report. I ask everyone to please look at the Project Listing[1] and do a few things: 1) Follow the link to the project homepage of any project you are a member of - make sure the project page is up-to-date. Things to look for are: members, description, tasks, sub-projects, leads, resources. Please correct any information that is wrong. If you don't want to fool with the xml then submit your changes as plain text directly to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and I will take care of updating it for you. If you update it yourself or if it is already up-to-date please make sure to email[2] us or ping curtis119 on irc to let us know. 2) If you are a lead of any project please submit a 1-3 paragraph status report (or assign it to a member of your project who shows interest) to User Relations[2]. The status report should include one paragraph (more if you can) about each of the following: what the project has accomplished in the past year, what the project is presently working on and any plans the project may have for the future. You can also include any other facts about the project you wish. The more information you give the better it is for our users. Some projects have recently submitted status reports on this list over the last 2 months, if you are one of those projects please resend the report to us[2]. To make it as simple as possible please submit your report as plain text and we will do the guideXML formatting. I will give everyone a few weeks to do this and then I will start pinging on irc, sending emails and generally being a pain in the rear end. Thanks in advance --curtis119 and the User Relations Project [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/index.xml?showlevel=2 [2] [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Old-style PHP packages vanishing
Eldad Zack wrote: > On Monday 17 April 2006 05:08, Luca Longinotti wrote: >> The PHP Herd announces that the old-style PHP packages, which were >> unsupported and deprecated for months, are finally going away. >> After months of work, the team considers the new dev-lang/php package >> and the related dev-php[4,5]/ categories fully ready for production use, >> and encourage all users to upgrade. >> Helpful informations can be found at the PHP project’s pages [1], along >> with a HOWTO [2] regarding the migration to dev-lang/php. >> The old-style PHP packages (dev-php/php, dev-php/php-cgi, >> dev-php/mod_php, dev-php/PECL-*, and older dev-php/PEAR-* packages) will >> be package.masked on Wednesday, 19 April 2006, and removed from the >> Portage tree about a month later. > > Just wanted to say a collective thank-you for the long tedious work you've > done with php. > > Thanks guys! > Me too, this was an awesome job. I use these packages on torrents.g.o and it works great. Thanks for all the hard work. :-) --curtis signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Improving Gentoo User Relations
Volkov Peter wrote: > Hello. > > IMO the very important element of gentoo user relations that is absent > at w.g.o is search field! Gentoo does not have good searching point. > > Each time I encounter bug/problem before asking for help if I'm a good > boy I have to search for solution in different places: forums, mailing > lists, bugzilla. If I heard that gentoo has some feature and I'd like to > find some relevant information, I have to search forums, mailing lists, > wiki, google. That is really uncomfortable. I have to open many > different search pages in my browser and cut and paste my search pattern > there, wait many times for results... And now pretend first day user..! > > This omission really disturbs. So just some notes, on what IMO shall be > done. Search should spread among all gentoo projects, subprojects, ml, > blogs and etc. Search should be customized (fex, I'd like to search only > -user mailing list, Assistance forums, and bugs.g.o). It's good idea to > save searches (like save searches in bugzilla). BTW. There were already > suggestions with working implementations: > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/33296 > > Peter. Thanks for your interest. A comprehensive search is on our ToDo list. There is no ETA for when this will go live. --curtis signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] New ebuild Developer: Christian Hartmann (ian!)
Danny van Dyk wrote: > Hi, > > It is my pleasure to announce publicly that ian! has passed all > necessary quizzes to touch our holy gra^H^H^H portage tree. > > He'll be helping mcummings in his perpetuate combat with perl and its > dependencies. May the source be with him. > > Congratulations Christian! :-) > > Danny Hooray for ian! Congratulations. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo theming during bootup
Jan Kundrát wrote: > Mike Frysinger wrote: >> On Monday 10 April 2006 15:37, Grant Goodyear wrote: >> >>> In any event, I think we need to remove the flying saucer guy. When >>> drobbins left and turned over the Gentoo IP to us, one thing that he >>> kept was the flying saucer guy. I believe that he was allowing us to >>> use it while we got the redesign put together, but since that's dead it >>> seems unfair to hold on to that flying saucer guy indefinitely. >> >> i'll miss him :( >> >> any way we can beg to keep him in the one place on the front page ? >> -mike > > 17:33 <@jkt|> drobbins: actually, it has been mentioned in the recent > thread on -dev ML that you own the copyright or something of the flying > saucer on w.g.o > [...] > 17:33 <@jkt|> drobbins: and there was a questino if you'd agree if we > continued to use it > [...] > 17:38 <@drobbins> jkt|, yeah, I don't care > > HTH, > -jkt > Not promising a front and center place like he has now but I'll work him into it somehow or other. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo theming during bootup
Rajiv Aaron Manglani wrote: >> wwwredesign.gentoo.org already has been converted and is going live on >> www.gentoo.org shortly (we just have a few last minute things to do). > > can we add a robots.txt on wwwredesign.gentoo.org that disallows / from > * ? if the site is just for testing a new layout or code, we do not want > (any more of) the content to get into search engines. > > thanks > I'll take care of this at the same time that we setup the new test domains. Should happen within the next week or two. bug#129623 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo theming during bootup
Mike Frysinger wrote: > On Monday 10 April 2006 14:08, Curtis Napier wrote: >> I honestly think we can make it happen if we all pitch in. > > a simple news item on the front page + GWN request could prob gather a lot of > attention > >> other WM's/desktops can also be done if someone is willing to do it. >> Like E17 or XFCE, etc... Even if they don't get full custom themes they >> can still use the icons and wallpapers and the qt/gtk theme will apply >> to the apps. > > there's already parts of a Gentoo theme floating around for e17 ... i can > look > into it > -mike There are lila eapps (icons for those that don't use E) and lila efl theme. The efl theme is no longer compatible (hasn't been for a while). The lila eapps are still out there though. I talked to spyderous a little bit ago and I *think* we have decided to go with the tango icons customized with our color scheme. We'll either find gtk/qt themes to match our color scheme or make them (I'm already reading the gtk/metacity theme howto). Tango is better for a lot of different reasons, the main one being that the project is actually active and has more than a single maintainer. When we get to the right point I'll contact you and we can work on E17 together if you want. I've already made a custom theme for E17 about 6 months ago so I have a *little* bit of experience with it. I'm sure you probably know more about it than I do though. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo theming during bootup
Mike Frysinger wrote: > On Monday 10 April 2006 18:38, Curtis Napier wrote: >> Mike Frysinger wrote: >>> On Monday 10 April 2006 15:37, Grant Goodyear wrote: >>>> In any event, I think we need to remove the flying saucer guy. When >>>> drobbins left and turned over the Gentoo IP to us, one thing that he >>>> kept was the flying saucer guy. I believe that he was allowing us to >>>> use it while we got the redesign put together, but since that's dead it >>>> seems unfair to hold on to that flying saucer guy indefinitely. >>> i'll miss him :( >>> >>> any way we can beg to keep him in the one place on the front page ? >> No. > > no as in "no i havent asked him and i never plan on doing so because i dont > ever want to use it" or no as in "daniel already asked us to remove it as > soon as conveniently possible" > -mike No as in "I haven't asked him but assume that he won't give us the copyright so I have forgotten that the lil' spaceship guy even exists but if someone convinces him to give us that copyright I would be willing to consider it for the design." *breath* Man that was a long run on sentence. :-) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo theming during bootup
Mike Frysinger wrote: > On Monday 10 April 2006 15:37, Grant Goodyear wrote: >> In any event, I think we need to remove the flying saucer guy. When >> drobbins left and turned over the Gentoo IP to us, one thing that he >> kept was the flying saucer guy. I believe that he was allowing us to >> use it while we got the redesign put together, but since that's dead it >> seems unfair to hold on to that flying saucer guy indefinitely. > > i'll miss him :( > > any way we can beg to keep him in the one place on the front page ? > -mike No. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo theming during bootup
Grant Goodyear wrote: > Curtis Napier wrote: [Mon Apr 10 2006, 11:21:14AM CDT] >> The redesign as it was known up until this point is no more. There were >> things the winner of the contest had to do and he failed to do them >> (after almost 2 years of trying to get him too). I discussed it with >> klieber a little and after much thought I have decided that the >> WWW-Redesign Contest is now officially dead and abandoned. > > Thanks for the update. > > One question that your thorough response didn't answer (assuming that I > didn't miss it) is if you have plans to improve the site's navigation? > My understanding during the original redesign contest was that the > majority of the complaints we received about our site from users was the > difficulty involved in finding things. > > In any event, I think we need to remove the flying saucer guy. When > drobbins left and turned over the Gentoo IP to us, one thing that he > kept was the flying saucer guy. I believe that he was allowing us to > use it while we got the redesign put together, but since that's dead it > seems unfair to hold on to that flying saucer guy indefinitely. > > -g2boojum- That's what this whole thread is about... a new theme. Specifically for the CD's but I am jumping on the bandwagon and going along for the ride. Hopefully something good will come of this, if not then I'll figure something out. For now just suffice it to say that a new theme that takes into consideration all the things you said above (and more) is going to happen one way or another. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo theming during bootup
Donnie Berkholz wrote: > Curtis Napier wrote: >>> Spyderous already has a new logo started that we can build on. We can >>> easily take it and build an entire theme around it. We also have the >>> lila theme and the Gentoo Icon Set we can use as raw material. Both of >>> them could easily be reworked into something we can use if we need to. > > That might be pushing things a little bit. What I've got are some > general themes/ideas that need some work and creativity by a good > graphics person to make into reality. > > Thanks, > Donnie You think it's to much? IMHO it's high time Gentoo presented a unified professional look and feel to the world. We want to act and be treated as a professional organization yet we have a hodge-podge of themes and styles that makes us look amateurish. I don't care how or why it got this way, I just want to do should something about it NOW. I honestly think we can make it happen if we all pitch in. fox2mike knows that artist who has already contributed artwork and says he is willing to contribute more. I also know an artist who may be willing to do a few things here and there. fox2mike, can you talk to that artist guy and see what he is willing to help out with or if he has any ideas? Really, all we need is a set of color codes, a main logo and an icon base set to start us out. All the rest can be built with that if we use one of the 2 existing icon sets color coded to match. Maybe we should start a list of things that need to be themed so we know what sort of artwork that will take. I'll start a list right now, if you are working on any of these things or have the skill/desire to work on them respond: Gentoo Logo grubsplash framebuffer splash gdm kdm qt gtk gnome/kde startup splash metacity kwin icons wallpapers PR materials (posters, handouts, business cards, etc..) Cafepress store items websites other WM's/desktops can also be done if someone is willing to do it. Like E17 or XFCE, etc... Even if they don't get full custom themes they can still use the icons and wallpapers and the qt/gtk theme will apply to the apps. The lila theme[1] already has *most* of that stuff already. This project is highly configurable as far as color scheme is concerned (it's svg). The icons can easily be colorized to match any scheme and we even have ebuilds for all of it (not in the tree though) that are mostly up to date. Maybe the lila maintainer would be willing to jump in and help us out with this. We also have the Gentoo Icon Set[2] to work with but it's not as easy to customize as lila and some of the icons have questionable copyright. Lila is all original GPL'd artwork that we would be free to use. To be honest I think lila, colorized to match whatever scheme we decide on, is the best way to go. It already has most of what we need and it's relatively easy to customize. Since no artistic skill would be required to customize lila I could do a lot of this stuff. I would be willing to do anything with gnome, updating gtk/metacity/icons etc... That sort of stuff is all fill-in-the-blank scripting for the most part with excellent tutorials already provided. And this theming should extend to all of our artwork. Things like business cards and all the stuff that PR uses at the live shows. All the stuff in the store, etc... Once we have an agreed upon logo and color scheme that stuff will be *relatively* easy to change. Spyderous, what is the Desktop herds stance on this. If we can get this all done (or as much of it as possible) is Desktop willing to make it the default theme? What would it take for this to happen? Wolf31o2, what about you and the other CD maintainers, are you guys willing to use this if we can get it done? PR, are you guys willing (or able) to remake your materials? What would it take? Who runs the store? I can't find any info about it. Can you/will you change the products? Anything else that can be themed that I'm missing? Like I said in that other email, if we start right now we could have it all done in time for 2007.0. Am I being crazy thinking we can do all of this? Does anyone else even want to try or think it's a good idea? Any other questions, comments, suggestions, flames? [1]http://lila-theme.berlios.de/ [2]http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/icons.xml signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo theming during bootup
Grant Goodyear wrote: > Curtis Napier wrote: [Mon Apr 10 2006, 09:53:04AM CDT] >> I'm willing to theme *.gentoo.org to match [...]. > > Speaking of which, what is the current status of the web redesign? > > Thanks, > g2boojum Well, I was planning on announcing this later on but I guess now is as good a time as any. The redesign as it was known up until this point is no more. There were things the winner of the contest had to do and he failed to do them (after almost 2 years of trying to get him too). I discussed it with klieber a little and after much thought I have decided that the WWW-Redesign Contest is now officially dead and abandoned. Instead, I'm now the "Web Coordinator". I proposed this new role to the Infra Leads and met no resistance or objections so I have taken the initiative and created the role. Also, neysx and I together were approached and offered to be the new www node administrators as a team. Of course we both said yes. Official Infra Monkey at last! :D As Web Coordinator I am responsible for ensuring a consistent look and feel and adherence to standards across all *.gentoo.org sites. This includes standardizing on an xhtml-1.0 layout with a standard set of css id's and classes so that a single "core" style sheet can be shared across all *.gentoo.org sites with a minimal custom style sheet being imported to take care of the site specific styling. This will make it **so** easy to change the ENTIRE *.gentoo.org web presence layout/design by simply dropping in a new style sheet. Basically what I'll be doing is letting the individual maintainers of the various sites focus on the back-end functionality of their sites. Leaving the forward facing html/css for me to worry about freeing up their valuable time. wwwredesign.gentoo.org already has been converted and is going live on www.gentoo.org shortly (we just have a few last minute things to do). I'm also working on bugday.g.o (with gurliegebis), planet.g.o and torrents.g.o and those 3 should be ready to go by the end of the month. Hopefully upstream for planet and torrents will accept my patches where applicable. Even if they don't these web-apps are pretty simplistic and keeping a customized version up-to-date will be no problem. I'll be working with tomk on forums.g.o and we already have a plan in the works. The forum has already been so heavily modified that it is almost not even recognizable as a phpbb anymore. tomk says we can pretty much do what we want to it (within reason) without having to worry about upstream accepting our modifications. bugs.g.o will be done with jforman. bugs.g.o is a touchy one, it's one of our most used resources so it will have to be done very slowly, very carefully and I'll have to get all the relevant patches accepted upstream. I doubt jforman wants to stray from the official upstream release very much, I haven't talked to him about this yet though so I'm not sure. bugs may end up getting a new header/footer and nothing else. We'll see how it goes. packages.g.o is a custom web-app written and maintained by marduk who is currently busy in real life. I'm putting this one on the bottom of the list until he gets more free time. I *could* just style the existing site without him but he is working on packages-2.0 and it will add a lot of needed functionality. I'd rather wait and do this the right way instead of wasting time styling a site that he is going to replace anyway. Neysx and I also have a plan to make the stylesheet user selectable so we can offer multiple themes. He already has a semi-working prototype at gentoo.neysx.org (it doesn't work in IE). I'll extend that concept to all the other websites. This fits perfectly with the idea of theming the websites to match the liveCD's. We can offer that theme as the default but still let people choose the "classic" style or any other styles we may offer. Realistically speaking I can have all of this done by the 2007.0 release (maybe not bugs - depends on how much jforman is willing to stray from the official bugzilla release). If everyone wants to shoot for 2006.1 for this new theme I will at least have 4 sites complete and ready for the new theme. The others can be themed as I get them upgraded. I know the redesign was a great big PITA. I faced many obstacles in getting it put up live (the specifics are irrelevant). Now that I am a full fledged Infra member with some actual authority and the support of the rest of the Infra team (teaming up with neysx is also making it MUCH easier) I can actually get (and AM getting) things accomplished. I should copy this to my blog too so I don't have to repeat this a million times signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo theming during bootup
Chris Gianelloni wrote: > On Sat, 2006-04-08 at 19:15 +, Wiktor Wandachowicz wrote: >> Carsten Lohrke gentoo.org> writes: >> >>> How do you want not to enforce it? >> Have you actually read the proposal? It's quite sensible and is entitled: >> >> "Proposal: Integrated boot themes on LiveCDs and installations" >> >> I suppose that the themes would be defaulted to on the LiveCDs and optional >> for regular installations - typical emerge-if-you-need-it situation. > > Funny enough, this was something that I heard requested *many times* > when we were at the booth at LWE. Many of our users think that upstream > defaults are ugly. I tend to agree. I would love to see the "branding" > USE flag added *and used* to give us themes. One of the main reasons > that I chose Gnome over KDE originally was that Gnome had the nice > little Gentoo splash and gdm already had Gentoo themes (even if they > were not the default). It just also happened that later when I tried to > build a KDE-only CD that I couldn't get it to fit on the CD along with > the other stuff, meaning I would have had to remove other packages and I > was planning on investing more time into determining what should go/stay > before touching it. > >>> Still, the basic question is: Why!? >> Because it may lead to the creation of well thought out and integrated themes >> for several programs that are able to use them? Including more robustness >> and/or functionality similar to the one that the gfxboot provides? > > How about "Why not?" as an answer? It isn't like anyone said that you > would have to do the work. As it stands now, Release Engineering has > someone who does the splash themes for the releases, and this person > could well be tapped to either create or assist in creating a unified > theme set. It really is funny that Donnie brought this up since this > was something that we were actually discussing at LWE. > >>> There's no benefit for the user, who will choose whatever theming >>> he wants anyways. >> I for one would be delighted if there was such new set of themes. I'd use >> them right away. To be honest, I tend to match my bootsplash theme with the >> one that's used on the current LiveCD. Somehow I feel I need that when people >> come and ask me "What Linux distro do you use?". If it happens that they ask >> when I boot my laptop they can watch the nice graphical progress (bootsplash) >> and finally my gdm theme. Having a Gentoo theme here helps to associate the >> theme with the distribution. Nobody forced me to do this. I just like it :) > > I tend to agree. My laptop also runs the same splash theme as the > release. In fact, it usually is one of the first boxes running it, > since we do testing there before we ever roll it onto a CD. > >>> Imho it's superfluous >> To be honest, there are not so many themes out there that are worth >> installing. A good set of Gentoo themes is one of the best ideas >> I've heard for a long time. (!) > > You think it is superfluous. I do not. I respect your opinion on this. > Basically, you don't have to work on it. Nobody is forcing you to do so > or even asking you to participate. > >>> and therefore wasted time. >> I understand your point. But are you sure that spreading the "negative >> energy" >> and killing the idea is best? No progress is done without breaking rules >> and working against the inertia of habits. > > Sure, it would be wasted time if someone were trying to force *you* to > waste *your* time as you are not interested. For those of us that are, > it isn't a waste in any sense. > >>> I for one favor to stick with that, what upstream provides. >> I guess you should be able to leave with that. No one would "force" you to >> switch the splashes/background/themes unless you wanted it. > > Correct. > >> And while we are at it, is there any chance that the bug #124920 >> could be taken into account while creating new gdm theme? > > I don't see why not. > You said everything I wanted to say. I'll add this: I talked to spyderous and christel about this on irc the other day. I think we should have a unified Gentoo Theme that cuts across all projects. I'm willing to theme *.gentoo.org to match and I'm also willing to help out with theming other things or actually creating the artwork if we really need help on that front (I'm not an artist but if we have basic artwork made I can fit it into other things, do layouts, help patch ebuilds, etc...). Spyderous already has a new logo started that we can build on. We can easily take it and build an entire theme around it. We also have the lila theme and the Gentoo Icon Set we can use as raw material. Both of them could easily be reworked into something we can use if we need to. The theme we create could easily be extended to all the other things we use artwork for, business cards and posters for the live events plus all the things in the store, etc... Personally, I think it's time we stopped releasing with the default
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why
Alin Nastac wrote: > Philip Webb wrote: > >> It is debatable whether users whose systems are already working properly >> should be expected to read sections of the Handbook >> merely in order to accommodate a newly-introduced form of configuration >> or whether some brief note in the emerge output or in GWN >> would be a better way of alerting them to such changes, >> but we all have other things to do today & I won't take it further. >> >> >> > Well, I could bail out in pkg_setup if /etc/init.d/rp-pppoe script still > exist. However, these kind of discussions shouldn't be here, but in bugzie. > Btw, the change was made 9+ months ago: > ... > 21 Jun 2005; Alin Nastac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -files/rp-pppoe.rc, > rp-pppoe-3.5-r11.ebuild: > Remove the rp-pppoe init script. The new way of using rp-pppoe is through > adsl net module of the baselayout-1.11.12-r4. > ... > And that change was duly noted and acted upon by almost everyone. We had several threads in the forums plus the einfo warnings. Most people made the transition without any problems. Good work on the adsl mrness, it works so much better than rp-pppoe now, thanks! --curtis119 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] QA Roles v2
Mike Frysinger wrote: > On Wednesday 01 March 2006 21:53, Mark Loeser wrote: >> Here is my updated version after some feedback from people: >> >> * In case of emergency, or if package maintainers refuse to cooperate, >> the QA team may take action themselves to fix the problem. >> * The QA team may also offer to fix obvious typos and similar minor >> issues, and silence from the package maintainers can be taken as >> agreement in such situations. >> * In the event that a developer still insists that a package does not >> break QA standards, an appeal can be made at the next council meeting. >> The package should be dealt with per QA's request until such a time that a >> decision is made by the council. > > one thing i dont think we give enough emphasis to is that our tools arent > perfect ... sometimes we utilize QA violations to work around portage > limitations ... if you want to see some really sweet hacks, review any of the > toolchain related ebuilds and the hacks ive had to add to get cross-compiling > to the usuable state that it is today. a handful of them would fall under > the 'severe' category i'm sure. and if we want to use the lovely php > example, personally i think that given portage's current limitations, the > latest dev-lang/php ebuild is probably one of the best solutions that could > have been developed, thanks Stuart for all the flak you've had to take over > this. also, many games ebuilds break the 'non-interactive' policy by > displaying licensing and making the user hit "Y" because portage lacks checks > where the user explicitly states what licenses they accept. > -mike I installed dev-lang/php on a server in my house to test torrents.gentoo.org and ramereth also installed it on the torrents.g.o server. I have to say that it was a painless and normal operation with no errors. Thanks for the hard work on this ebuild, it's appreciated. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] New forums staffer: kernelsensei (Boris Fersing)
Wernfried Haas wrote: Boris is one of the people taking care of the French forum and now has joined the official Gentoo ranks. He writes about himself: My name is Boris Fersing, I'm 20 years old, French and live on the French-German border. I study Computational Linguistics at the University of Saarland (Germany). My hobbies are Psychology, japanese culture, martial arts (like Iaido), beer and of course Gentoo ;) Welcome aboard, Boris! cheers, Wernfried Welcome to the team Boris! -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New forums staffer: mark_alec (Mark Kowarsky)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all. Mark_alec just joined the team as our newest global forums moderator. I'm sure he's already well known on our busy forums :) Welcome newest Forum Victim^^Staffer! -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New developer: Jokey (Markus Ullmann)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all. Markus has been contributing to gentoo through bugzilla and bugdays for a few months and have now finally joined the ranks of official Gentoo developers. Markus is going to help with netmon related ebuilds. Markus tells us about himself: "I'm a 23 year old geek, trying to spread linux around the world ;) At the moment I live at my parents near Hamburg/Germany and I'm studying electrical engineering at University of Applied Sciences, Hamburg. I greatly enjoy watching all forms of Star Trek and Star Wars. For non-computerized balance I enjoy doing some Tae-Bo and go swimming with Friends and other LUGs taking part 'LUG in motion'." Please welcome Markus to the team. Regards, Bryan Østergaard LUG in Motion? H sounds interesting. Welcome aboard Markus! -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Projects and simple guides
Sven Vermeulen wrote: Lance Albertson said: I can probably setup toucan to use gorg in some fashion if I had a few folks to test it with. I'm sure that would make things easier for a lot of people for rendering things. Since documentation posted on dev.gentoo.org isn't Gentoo's by default, it might not be a good idea to use the Gentoo layout, the CC-BY-SA license by default and the "Comments? Corrections? [EMAIL PROTECTED]" footer... It isn't a biggie to change the styles so that dev.gentoo.org uses a nice template which still leaves room for both GuideXML usage /and/ be less strict on the above items. Wkr, Sven Vermeulen I'm adding this advice to my TODO list under "template for dev.gentoo.org" for the redesign. It should fit in nicely with my XSL modularization plan. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for January
Carsten Lohrke wrote: On Thursday 05 January 2006 16:46, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote: Yeah ok, let me end up these holidays, and I'll prepare a written request to change the Linux part in something else You should also contact the folks working on the gentoo.org redesign. While there was a bit of fuss about the infinity symbol, I always wondered why no one lost a word against the "Linux" below, given that we claim to provide a meta-distribution. Carsten I was thinking the exact same thing when I was reading this thread. Removing the "linux" from the logo would only take a few minutes if it's decided to drop it. I'll follow this and make the change if/when it's necessary. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for January
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 12:09:09 + Tom Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | > If you'd like to see more interesting or innovative changes, start | > by looking into how we can make it easier for developers to | > advertise what they've been doing. | | planet.g.o? No, that's censored to only display what certain people want it to say rather than the truth of what's going on. Censored? Please expand on this, how is it censored? I thought we were allowed to put anything Gentoo related we want to in our Gentoo blog? -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] relocation.
Benjamin Judas wrote: Am Samstag 31 Dezember 2005 16:10 schrieb Lares Moreau: Uhh.. in this case. I don't think York == NewYork maps.google.com | search 'York UK' just FYI -Lares Some americans have a limited horizon, you know ;) ... just a flat new-years joke, folks ;) ... oooh York, UK not New York, NY DOH! /me puts hand to forehead in the shape of an "L" -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] heads up: adding ca-certificates as a PDEPEND to openssl
Yuri Vasilevski wrote: Now, being a little bit less ideological, I think it is perfectly ok to add certificates from some organizations like CACert.org that try to make security free for all Internet users as well as open source projects' certificates (like debian ones). But it should be up to businesses to buy they're way into openssl by the means of this "sponsoring". So my suggestions is to add root certificates only for non for profit organizations. (For intermediate certificates that already have root certificate bundled with openssl it ok in all cases). Or at last don't make it a RDEPEND but an einfo "you may want to intall X for Y reason". this will inadvertently fix this fun bug: http://bugs.gentoo.org/101457 and probably more in the future In this king of cases it is probably better to ask upstream to bug they're CA to "sponsor" openssl or use some free CA. Yuri. I was unaware that openssl worked that way, ie "sponsor in exchange for inclusion". This seems like a fair and honest way for them to raise funds but gives companies the ability to use openssl even if they don't sponsor. But *must* we honor that? Has anyone asked them? I agree with this point 100%: Any organization that is free to the public should be included. But should we exclude the ones that are for-profit? I don't know but I have some pros and cons about including it. It would be good PR for Gentoo to honor that funding scheme. Helping a fellow FOSS project in this way is just being "neighbourly" and will keep us out of slashdot. Plus it makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Don't include it at all or make it optional with a USE flag. Good PR aside including all the certificates is better for the user because they don't have to manually search for the certificate and install it. Not to mention the wget bug with realplayer. I don't know about anyone else but when something Just Works(tm) I am happy. Install it by default or make it optional with a USE flag. Would it be best to make it into a USE flag so users have the choice, install it by default or simply not offer it at all? Both sides should be happy with a USE flag IMHO. So long as it closes the wget bug I'm all for it. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] relocation.
051230 John Mylchreest wrote: as of tonight I pack up my most valued of possessions -- my computer kit -- and get ready to board a one-way ticket to York. I guess that means I won't be the only American in ##uk anymore. ;-) Have fun in New York John! -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Allow upstream tags in metadata.xml (GLEP 46)
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 01:45:00 +0100 Stefan Schweizer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | That will increase the sync time for all of our users - can we please | keep this info out of the sync-tree? Learn to use the rsync exclude list. FAQ: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-356536-highlight-rsync+exclude.html -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: codergeek42
Danny van Dyk wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 All, please help me to welcome Peter Gordon aka codergeek42, our latest addition to the ranks of Gentoo Developers. And someone please explain to him how to secure his bum in SpanKY's immediate vicinity ;-) Welcome codergeek! I'm his mentor so everyone wish him *lots* of luck, he's gonna need it. LOL -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] mac/xmms-mac licence issue
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: Would you like us to add the Windows XP source code to the tree with LICENSE="gpl-2" as well? No, but could you add Win2000? ktnks. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: how to contribute to use/slot deps: was Re: [gentoo-dev] Multiple Repo Support
Dan Meltzer wrote: On 12/24/05, Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 23:56:37 -0800 Brian Harring <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | It's really pretty simple- get off your butt and chip in if you want | it, else you're on _our_ timeline (eg, we implement it when we deem | it sane/ready to go). Is Portage development done to support the needs of those of us who provide the tree, or is the tree expected to be restricted to whatever Portage developers feel like implementing? I'd say the latter. The tree is restricted to what is implemented in portage, and as it is a volunteer organization, what is implemented is what the portage dev's feel like implementing. If you want more to be implemented, submit patches. hmmm, from reading the emails, bug reports and irc chats of portage devs, non-portage devs and end users I would say it's a little bit of both. The non-portage devs are using a tool provided by the portage devs that allows them to create the Gentoo distro. Those two teams work together to ensure the best possible tool. If the portage devs ONLY did what they felt like (or the opposite, only did what the other devs told them and ignored their own intimate knowledge of portage) then portage would not be where it is today. True developement is a subtle play of ideas back and forth between everyone involved resulting in an excellent piece of software. Yes, the portage devs have the final say since they are the ones doing the actual work but they would be remiss if they simply ignored everyone else and did what they wanted (although they could very well do this if they choose). Just as the non-portage devs would be remiss if we ignored everyone else while doing our work. The one doing the work is the one with the intimate knowledge of internals so their opinion should count very highly when it comes to implementing/not-implementing those ideas but not all of the ideas come from the portage-devs. Some of the ideas come from the non-portage-dev people who use it on a daily basis. As so many have said, Gentoo is an all volunteer project so you get what we have time to give you but we *do* listen to the ideas of others. We don't always implement those ideas but we do listen to them at the very least. You never know where the next great idea that will make things faster/more efficient is going to come from and we would be stupid to ignore them. confucius says: No dev is an island. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Unified nVidia Driver Ebuild ready for testing
Dale wrote: Niklas Bolander wrote: On Friday 23 December 2005 20:59, Peter wrote: I can tell you that I would be disappointed if this replaces the current ebuilds, because I really don't need to reinstall nvidia-settings and nvidia-glx every time I build a new kernel. That's why we are having this dialog. When I proposed doing a unified ebuild, the objective always was to get and encourage feedback. If you are happy keeping up with three ebuilds, then that is feedback we need to have. BTW, please post these comments to the bug report. We hope you will find this approach a more streamlined and easy implementation for nVidia. I don't particularly see how it is easier. But many do. This mirrors the approach nvidia takes. As another non-dev/user I must say that three separate ebuilds is preferable. The kernel ebuild must be recompiled every time I change kernel while the glx only needs to be installed once. Finaly, I have rather bad experiences of nvidia-settings and would like to avoid them at all. Wouldn't it be more sensible to make a nvidia-meta build that pulled in all three if the goal is pure simplicity? Merry Christmas btw. /Niklas I have to agree. Do it sort of like KDE, with kde, kde-meta or as seperate packages. Have it so you can pull in all three in one emerge command but have the option to do it seperately as well. I have only emerged glx once and do the nvidia-kernel when I change kernels. I really don't have any use for the settings package, as long as my GUI works anyway. Just give us some options. We'll be happy then. Ditto. A unified build would make more work for my tired old CPU. A meta build would be better, give us the choice to pull it all in or one at a time like kde. ps. I appreciate the original intention of trying to clean this up. Thanks! -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Stepping aside...
Sven Vermeulen wrote: Hi all It is with deep regret that I want to inform you about my decision to step down from the position of Gentoo Documentation lead. I can't believe this. I am very sad. Swift is my mentor and one of a few people whos work inspired me to donate my time to Gentoo to begin with. Swift, your leadership of the GDP will be missed. Neysx, congrats on the promotion, I look forward to working with you. I know the GDP will flourish under your leadership just like it did under swifts. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] glep 42 (news) round six
I agree with ciaranm that repository IDs should not be allowed to contain spaces. Seriously. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Multiple Repo Support
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 22:34:05 -0500 Andrew Muraco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | 2. What choices/options are on the table for this feature? The big controversy seems to be over whether repositories carry a unique identifier string (for example, in metadata/repository_id) or whether it's user-assigned. The former is clearly the more sensible option, since it lets you do things like (syntax made up): DEPEND=">=foo-bar/baz-2.1::ciaranmssekritrepo" which would add a restriction that only packages in ciaranmssekritrepo would be considered. This only works if the repository knows its own identifier, however... Incidentally, the ::repo syntax (or whatever) would also be useful in the world file, along with :slot. So something like: foo-bar/baz:2::ciaranmssekritrepo would tell the package manager that you want baz SLOT 2 from ciaranmssekritrepo. *shrug* But it seems the Portage guys want repository names to be user-assigned, which makes them far less useful. This functionality would come in very very handy. Would user assigned repository names be able to mimic this functionality somehow? -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Optimizing performance
Wernfried Haas wrote: On Thu, Dec 15, 2005 at 09:13:34AM -0500, Chris Gianelloni wrote: There was a tip in the GWN about turning on dir_index on an already formatted file system. If formatting a new one, just use mkfs.ext2 -J -O dir_index /dev/$whatever to create your file system. Good thing you remind me of that. As a new ext3 convert (i happily used reiser3 for years before), any problems to be expected by doing so? Afaics it turns on B-trees which should have no impact on the safety of my data, right? Just want to make sure, i rather use a slightly slower file system than risking data loss. cheers, Wernfried I've been using it on ext3 for about a year and it has never lost any data. It also seems to speed up emerge --sync about as much as using reiser3 does. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Creating a Sketeton System
George Prowse wrote: After some talk in the forums a point came up that we need a way to reduce the long used gentoo system to a bare point before X but after any baselayout upgrade had been applied. This script would enable two things: a person to rebuild his system after a library malfunction and also if a person wanted to switch from 100% gtk to 100% qt or vice-versa. At present we have depclean to reduce anything past xorg-x11 but that doesn't get as far as anything that doesn't rely on a package being able to depend on an GUI, libraries need to be brought in and all but baselayout needs to be cleaned out so a "bare bone" is left. This would be useful as an arch tester because snapshots could be made of various stages and tested. George Do you have a script that will do this or are you asking for someone to create one? -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 42 (Critical news reporting) updates
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: Does anyone really use emerge --ask? Yes. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Moving GCC-3.4 to stable on x86
Speaking as a user who upgraded from 3.3.x to 3.4.x a loong lng time ago and also as a forum mod who sees questins about this on a daily basis: Users are more or less aware that they will have to rebuild the entire world including the kernel when they upgrade gcc. If they aren't already aware of it they soon learn that it is necessary and they aren't averse to it. This is a from source distro afterall, so TELLING them in an upgrade guide that they *HAVE* to do this wouldn't be such a bad thing. It solves 99% of all the problems reported in a gcc upgrade for people who *didn't* do an "emerge -e world". Doing it from the outset will save the forums and bugs a lot of stress and heartache that could have been easily avoided. Just my 2 $DENOMINATION's -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Maintainer's guides?
Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote: On Monday 28 November 2005 16:47, Jan Kundrát wrote: What about setting the HOMEPAGE of alsa-something to point to our ALSA-guide? Because that's not the homepage? I go often on pgo to see the homepage of something, and it's usually to get *upstream* homepage, not Gentoo's guides. It's misleading changing that, imho. I agree with this. I often don't feel like wading through 5 pages of bad results on google to find an obscure packages homepage. I look in the ebuild for this information all the time. A seperate tag like , as someone mentioned earlier, would also be a huge help but would still give you the homepage info as well. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Update of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org
Flammie Pirinen wrote: 2005-11-25, Curtis Napier sanoi, jotta: I honestly thought that the changes I made were better from an accessibility standpoint. I guess I was wrong. Not really. So on that note, I've gone over the design and gotten it closer to Aarons's reference. [...] Check out what I did change in the meantime. Uh-oh. The usability regression from what the site was yesterday is unbelievable. Almost all of the texts are too small to read again, and the color combinations are also unreadable again. I hope that you and Aaron are still going to take into account at least all the usability related requests from the feedback you asked, because I'd be pretty annoyed to see yet another web site redesign that manages to make original website even more unusable than it was. Sorry, I should have been a little more clear. What I meant in my last email is that I would get the site to match Aarons current reference and then he and I, working together as a team, would then address all the issues that were brought up during the last round of feedback. Aarons input as the designer will be make it so much easier to make sure those accessibilty/other feedack is incorporated in a way that is pleasing to look at and integrates with Aarons original design. This is how it should have been done from the beginning as I already said in my last email. Sorry for any confusion. ps. I'm moving all discussion of this to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list. I'll start a new thread there right now. Anyone who wants to participate should sign up for that list. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Update of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org
I honestly thought that the changes I made were better from an accessibility standpoint. I guess I was wrong. Aaron was gone for months and months and months so I was listening to the feedback from others and trying to please everyone. I think I forgot that I took on this project to implement Aaron's winning design and not to *redesign* it to make other people happy. Aaron is the designer, I am simply the schmuck who is putting it into the XSL. I took on this project thinking that Aaron and I would work together as a team but when Real Life called Aaron away for all that time I did the best I could. Now that his real life obligations are giving him more time, Aaron is back. He and I will work together to implement this as closely as possible to his reference desogn. So on that note, I've gone over the design and gotten it closer to Aarons's reference. It's a Holiday in my country and I'm going out of town so what you see on the test site won't be updated anymore until I get back. Check out what I did change in the meantime. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Update of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org
Paul de Vrieze wrote: On Wednesday 23 November 2005 07:40, Curtis Napier wrote: ps. I also found two graphical glitches: - There is a misterious white bar just below the overview bar (see ws1.png) - The corners of the jump pads do not have the proper background color (see ws2.png) Fixed. In CVS If anyone with experience in Internet Explorer can figure out what is causing it to push the page off the left side of the window I would greatly appreciate it. I have never seen an error like that before and can't figure it out. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Update of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org
First of all, thank you everyone for all the feedback. Your input is important and greatly appreciated. I should have said that the last update was not complete as far as design was concerned. I was mainly looking for accessibility and rendering issues on as many browsers/OS's as possible. I got that feedback and fixed the issues that came up. I also implemented the rest of the design so it should now be more visually appealing and better match Aarons reference design. I took into consideration all of the suggestions that were submitted and now ask for additional feedback to ensure that my changes didn't introduce any additional rendering/accessibility bugs and that the design is acceptable to as many people as possible. If there are no more outstanding issues reported I will submit this current layout for approval. Questions to some of the answers and suggestions that were brought up: The artwork is all part of the winning design. Any issues with the infinity symbol should have been addressed a year ago. I am not the designer of this site. I am merely implementing it in the XSL backend. I am the only person working on this and I am the designated official developer, the project lead is Swift and his role is to offer advice, enforce design policy and generally oversee my actions and help me with internal gentoo policies and procedures. The project is actually owned by Infra and they (they == infra leads which is klieber and ramereth as far as I know), along with Swift, have the final say on everything. I welcome any and all patches that you are willing to submit. All submissions will be evaluated on a case by case basis. Aarons reference design at www.aaronshi.com/gentoo/ is exactly that: A reference. In it's current form it differs from his original submission which was the winning entry and should not be considered as anything else but a reference. I tried to stick to that design as much as possible but some things were simply not possible. Aarons design uses a smaller default font, that is not acceptable from an accessibility POV. The main font is at 1em and all cursory fonts multipliers of 1em. The main font will remain at 1em which is the standard for the accessibility guidelines. If you don't like the standard font size every single graphical browser offers a font zoom capability, use it. Aarons use of a smaller font allows more information to appear on the page. This is an illusion of size. If you have your browser window set to 800x600 or smaller the jumpads disappear and the page has to be scrolled to see them no matter how big/small the font is. If you enlarge the font on Aarons reference to the standard 1em the jumppads disappear and the page must be scrolled anyway so this point is moot. Purple background with yellow text is hideous. Not going to happen. The "Locator" would require rewrites of not only the XSL but also the actual xml files and is outside the scope of this project. Touching any xml content file is strictly off limits, all existing xml should be backwards compatible with the new design. This point is not debatable. Use of a database would make this task easier while allowing backwards compatibility but it will have to wait for a future update to the site to be implemented. I actually implemented a search that used google much like the example that was posted here. The search was discussed at length with the project lead and it was decided that using a third party search engine such as google was unacceptable. As Lance said, this will have to be coordinated with infra at a later date. Gentoo is a not-for-profit but, unfortunetly, it is the wrong kind of non-profit so Google will not sponsor us. The contents of the uppermost menu are to sites that are outside the www.gentoo.org website. They will stay in this location. They are green to contrast with the purple background to ensure that colorblind and other visually impaired people can see it. Green is the compliment to purple so I am baffled that people think the combination is not attractive. In Aarons preview the light purple color of these links is not visible to color blind individuals thus it is unacceptable. This color will not change. The grey menu should contain links that would be used in order of a new user and that highlight the main parts of the site. I did this quickly to have something there to look at. I didn't notice any good suggestions to replace what is there. If you have suggestions please send them. The same goes for the wording in the purple boxes, if you don't like what they say submit a suggestion for each. Suggestions of "I don't like it you should change it" that don't include a clearly worded replacement will be ignored. The donate box is here to stay until the search function is implemented. Graphics should be implemented in the CSS as much as possible to aid future maintenance (the xsl templates are huge and not e
[gentoo-dev] status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org
This has been cross posted to gentoo-dev and www-redesign. http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org After receiving a ton of very useful feedback from the developer community I have updated the redesign. It should now be closer to 100% accessible and it should (hopefully) render perfectly in all browsers including text only browsers. It now passes XHTML and CSS validation tests. I'm asking for everyone (developers and users alike) to please have a look at the updated site and send any feedback you may have. I'm especially interested in feedback from anyone who uses accessibilty programs such as screen readers or if you are color blind or have any other accessibilty issues. Also, I only use GNU/Linux and I have only tested on the following browsers: Mozilla-1.7 firefox-1.0 Opera-8.5 Internet Explorer-6 under CrossOver Office Epiphany-1.8.2 Links-2.1 in text mode and graphics mode. If you have access to a Macintosh, Windows, *BSD or any other OS or Browser please test the site and include your OS and the browser version in your feedback. I haven't received feedback from Konqueror or Safari so feedback from those browsers would be much appreciated. The only major outstanding issue is the contents of the menu in the grey bar at the top and what should appear in the 5 purple boxes directly under them. Currently I have that menu listed in order of what a new Gentoo user would need to access first. If you have a better idea of what should be included in this menu or think something important is being left out please send that in your feedback as well. Thanks in advance Curtis -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Email subdomain
Kurt Lieber wrote: On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 05:44:53PM -0500 or thereabouts, Curtis Napier wrote: Maybe a new GLEP is in order? It makes sense to do it now since infra is going to be setting up alias' anyway. While we're at it possibly an @dev.g.o as well (as someone mentioned)? That way there is no confusion. If anyone wants to pursue this we should start a new thread to keep the issues seperate. What purpose does this serve? This would create all sorts of confusion. Right now, you can meet someone in IRC and make a reasonable assumption that their email address is @gentoo.org. This would confuse things horribly imo. What about people like me that span multiple roles? What happens when someone (again, like me) starts out in one area, moves to another, then still a third and finally a fourth? We're going to be updating aliases all over the place and for what? How does any of this make Gentoo Linux a better distro? Does it reduce bugs? Improve QA? Can I add -staff.gentoo.org to my CFLAGS and get a 0.1% speed increase? There is no technical reason why any of this is necessary and it doesn't provide any tangible benefits that I can see. If a user really wants to know someone's role within the project, they can go look it up on the web site. --kurt Fair enough, I was simply throwing the idea out there to see what people thought. It just seems like a lot of people want to keep a clear line of who is a "developer" and who isn't. It makes no difference to me but since I am one of the people who would be affected by it I thought it would be good to let you know that I don't care what my email address is either way. Whatever the council decides is fine with me. I trust all the council members to make a good decision that is best for Gentoo overall. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Email subdomain
Homer Parker wrote: > On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 17:01 -0500, Curtis Napier wrote: > >>This sounds good to me as well, very professional. How easy is it >>going >>to be to change to a normal @g.o address? As simple as a forward? For >>instance, if someone who is an AT decides to become a full dev. > > >That's what the GLEP says will happen ;) > :redfaced: Sorry, I read the glep initially when it was first posted but I forgot that detail. Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:01:34 -0500 Curtis Napier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | This sounds good to me as well, very professional. The problem with staff is that staff who aren't ATs/HTs won't be using it... I agree with this. Those of us who don't have commit rights to the tree should have an @staff.g.o, people like me for instance. I happen to be part of two projects but neither gives me access to the tree so I would get an @staff.g.o and am fine with that. It lets people I email outside of the project know that I am staff and not a developer. Maybe a new GLEP is in order? It makes sense to do it now since infra is going to be setting up alias' anyway. While we're at it possibly an @dev.g.o as well (as someone mentioned)? That way there is no confusion. If anyone wants to pursue this we should start a new thread to keep the issues seperate. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Email subdomain
Henrik Brix Andersen wrote: On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 11:09:07AM -0600, Homer Parker wrote: @staff.g.o Staff sounds pretty good to me. ./Brix This sounds good to me as well, very professional. How easy is it going to be to change to a normal @g.o address? As simple as a forward? For instance, if someone who is an AT decides to become a full dev. Sorry if this question was already answered. I didn't see it if it was. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo Council meeting, Thursday 15th, 1900 UTC
Mike Frysinger wrote: his comment wasnt directed at you in any way, it was to try and get support for the new proposal floating on the devrel list atm -mike Oh good, I wasn't sure what he meant. Thanks for clearing that up spanky. +1 for the new proposal floating on the devrel list atm. :-) -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo Council meeting, Thursday 15th, 1900 UTC
Jon Portnoy wrote: On Wed, Sep 14, 2005 at 12:06:13AM -0400, Curtis Napier wrote: I'm not an ebuild dev so I may not know enough about this situation to competantly comment on it but it seems to me that QA should have some sort of limited ability to "temporarily" take away write access to the tree until devrel has a chance to look over the evidence and come to a decision. This would fix the problem of "devrel takes to long" plus it would really help to ensure higher quality work is submitted (because ebuild devs WILL stop purposely commiting bad work if they know a QA team member can take away their write access at a moments notice for repeated violations). The other thing that'd fix the 'devrel takes so long' problem would be if people would let devrel fix its resolution policies 8) (see recent -devrel ml thread) It's not about devrel taking a long time. Please don't think that I was bashing devrel in any way, in fact I have great respect for the devrel members. I know what a thankless task they have taken on and the bullshit they have to put up with on an almost daily basis. Kudos to you. We all know that devrel is a team of people that have a responsibility to investigate any claim of wrongdoing and ensure that both sides are able to make their case. Afterwards, the devrel team members have to discuss the evidence and reach a conclusion. All of this takes time no matter how streamlined the process is and in the meantime the offending dev is allowed to continue to pollute the tree unchecked. If QA is able to "temporarily" fix the perceived problem by removing ONLY write access to the portage CVS tree until devrel is able to finish their process, overall quality will go up. Even if it is found that no QA violations were made in some cases, I would rather have a few devs "temporarily" lose their write priveledges until devrel can pass/fail them than let even one bad dev through. Personally, I think any dev that is made a member of the QA team is made a member because the rest of the devs trust that the person knows enough about Gentoo and the way it works to actually spot quality issues. I would trust these QA devs with this "temporary" ability wholeheartedly because if any of them abuse it they will be caught and removed from the QA team and they all know it. Plus, I think the people who are currently (or used to be) members of QA are respected enough for their technical knowledge that no one should have a problem with this *unless* they are one of the devs whos quality levels are in question. (personality issues are a different subject and have nothing to do with this discussion - this is a 100% technical correctness issue) I have seen numerous debates on this list and on -core where almost every dev agrees that *something* must be done to ensure that all of the QA mistakes in the past are not repeated. All of the proposed plans relied on peer-review or other means that would greatly increase the number of devs we would need to implement it. In this case we already have the QA team in place and simply giving them this one ability would go greatly towards solving the inherent problems in the system. No new devs required and no new teams to create. A perfect solution to an endless problem. Gentoo can't afford to peer review every single line of code but this small thing would greatly help in catching the largest of the mistakes that are made. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo Council meeting, Thursday 15th, 1900 UTC
Lance Albertson wrote: snip ... I tend to agree with Donnie on this partially. Devrel's main focus isn't the QA of the tree, its dealing with developers. QA should have the authority to limit access to the tree if someone isn't following the guidelines properly. They are the ones with the technical know how to make the judgment on that. Obviously, they will need to come up with guidelines if someone does make a goof up. Give them some probationary time, maybe make them take the quiz again to improve their ebuild skills. I just don't think devrel is the right place for that kind of authority. I'm not an ebuild dev so I may not know enough about this situation to competantly comment on it but it seems to me that QA should have some sort of limited ability to "temporarily" take away write access to the tree until devrel has a chance to look over the evidence and come to a decision. This would fix the problem of "devrel takes to long" plus it would really help to ensure higher quality work is submitted (because ebuild devs WILL stop purposely commiting bad work if they know a QA team member can take away their write access at a moments notice for repeated violations). As Lance said in an earlier post, infra already does this "temporary removal of access" if it is an immediate security threat and then submits the evidence to devrel for followup. Why can't it work exactly the same for the QA team? If they have done their due diligence by contacting the dev in question, pointing out their mistakes and offering assistance to correct the mistakes and the dev just keeps right on commiting bad stuff QA should be able to "temporarily" stop them until devrel has a chance to follow up and investigate. That's what QA is, Quality Assurance, if they have no power to actually "Assure Quality" then why does this team even exist? I'll give an example: Saturn car company has a great big red "STOP" button at every point in the assembly line that can turn off the entire manufacturing line if QA spots a mistake. The QA team does not have to ask anyone first, they simply push the button so the low quality car does not get through, remove the offending car from the line "temporarily" until a team investigates and decides if the quality is good enough to put it back on the assembly line. Saturn is known for the quality of it's cars because of this. The gentoo QA team should have this same ability. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] subscribe
"Josh M. Anders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: subscribe This is not the proper way to subscribe to a gentoo mailing list. Please see this page for the correct way to subscribe. http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml Thank You curtis119 -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: Luis Medinas
On Monday 08 August 2005 17:32, Mike Doty wrote: Everyone welcome our newest minion: MetalGOD. Welcome MetalGOD. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Staff Member: Haas Wernfried (amne)
Mike Doty wrote: > All- > > Please take a moment to welcome amne on board. He helped draft GLEP > 38, which makes global forums mods gentoo staff members. I'll let him > intoduce himself. > > "Hi, > It's kind of funny to write an introduction if you have been around > for a while. I started to use Gentoo in November 2002. Approximately a > year later i became moderator on the german forum and was promoted to > global moderator a bit later. Being on the forums i got in contact > with some of the the Gentoo devs, especially the German > conspiracy and people in close contact with the forums. Hi guys, you > already know me. > Recently the idea for GLEP 38 was born to make the forums and the > moderators an official part of Gentoo. It's a good thing (tm) imho so > that those folks who don't know me yet can finally notice me as well - > Hi there, i'm your friendly neighbourhood forums monkey. > > Here's some more facts about me: > I'm currently 27 years old and live in Graz, Austria (roger55 also > lives here). I'm not married, but i'm in a relationship that's > probably longer than some marriages. My interests are - oh surprise - > Gentoo and all that Computer stuff in general and drum & bass (that's > music and if you don't know it you probably also won't like it). > You can find a picture and some more text of me in this GWN isssue: > http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/20050103-newsletter.xml#doc_chap2"; > > > Welcome aboard amne! :-) -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New AT
--- Homer Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It seems the PPC peeps have done it again, it's with great pleasure > that I announce their newest AT, nixnut. Please give him a warm > welcome > to the team. I know JoseJX said he had plenty of work for him, so he > might be hard to find ;) > Welcome aboard nixnut! M Curtis Napier curtis119 __ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 38: Status of forum moderators in the Gentoo project
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: >I'll repeat myself, but I think that if you don't require current >moderators to pass the staffing quiz, you're against the point of >"Moderator as an authority". > >There are several possible solutions: >a) Require all the existing moderators to do the quiz in some time >(months?). Please don't say that it is hard, I've done it myself ;-) . >b) Introduce another "moderator degree" called "Unofficial Moderator". > >I think that b) is stupid, so I vote for a). Having two degress would >only cause confusion, IMHO. I beleive that moderators can find some time >for them to pass that quiz. > >-jkt > > >-- cd /local/pub && more beer > /dev/mouth There already are two levels of Moderator. Global Moderators that have access to the entire forum and forum specific Moderators that only have access to one forum ie. the language forums (the arch specific forum Mods are all official Devs for that Arch anyway). The Global Moderators and Administrators are the ones who would be covered by this GLEP and be required to become Official Staff and take the quiz. I have already taken the quiz in conjunction with another non-forum project. You are correct, it was easy. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Gentoo Forums Moderator Policies and Guidelines
In conjunction with the recent GLEP concerning Gentoo Forums becoming an official Gentoo Project the Forum team has released a new document entitled "Gentoo Forums Moderator Policies and Guidelines". A preview of this document is currently being hosted at http://curtis119.no-ip.org/forum-guide.xml -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: splitting one source package into many binaries
Yuri Vasilevski posted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, excerpted below, on Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:20:44 -0500: >> So I think it may be good for some packages to be split in several >> packages (but right now I can't think of any), but I think it'll be much >> better introduce more granularity into many ebuils with use flags. This is >> specially the case (in my opinion) of packages that can have both client >> and server functionality (the best example I can think of is net-fs/samba, >> which I mostly use just to mount shares form other servers). >The client/server thing is a concern for me here, as well, for security >reasons. If I don't have an SSH server merged, it can't inadvertently >be turned on somehow. SSH is apparently a dependency for something I >have >merged, and currently, it includes the SSH server. That worries me, as >it's a server component on a normally client system, and is thus a >potential security vuln. IMO, having it there when it's not used and >the >human behind the machine has no intention of running it, is just >/asking/ >for security issues. It shouldn't be there in the first place. >Unfortunately, there's no USE flag to turn it off. >Similarly with a couple of the DHCP packages I was looking at a few >weeks >ago. I normally run static IPs on a LAN behind a NAPT based router, >giving me a /bit/ more leeway in terms of security on my Linux box, but >decided to install some form of DHCP just in case. Several of those >packages have both clients and servers, with apparently no way to only >install the client, short of hacking the ebuild. IMO, that's not the >way >it should be. Gentoo isn't supposed to work that way, and PARTICULARLY >in >this sort of instance, where getting mixed up in your configuration may >mean you start the server instead of the client, is a security risk >that >simply shouldn't have to be there in the first place. >I'm sure there are other instances... >IMO as a Gentoo user... I have also had these concerns. The thing you need to keep in mind is that any server (like sshd) can *only* be turned on by the root user with a specific command. Gentoo *never ever* turns any server on by default (go gentoo!). If a cracker gains enough access to do this you have more things to worry about than a server being started. I know this isn't the answer you were looking for but it is the gentoo way...sshd comes from the upstream maintainer as a single package so it is installed by portage as a single package. This gives the user the flexibility that I have become accustomed to. Once you get used to this way of doing things it is no different than any other *nix based system. As it has been said on this mailing list a thousand times before, you can always make a custom ebuild in your overlay if it is that big of a concern. That's what I love about portage, I can create my own custom ebuilds and not have to rely on what the Gentoo Devs give me like in so many other distros. (even though what the gentoo devs supply is usually of the highest quality and meets my needs). -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
