Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
Hello, * Wolfram wrote on 08/10/03: On 10 Aug 2003 05:49:24 -0700 Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2003-08-10 at 01:44, Wolfram Umlauf wrote: maybe zoinks from http://zoinks.mikelockwood.com/ is the solution for you. Works perfecly for me. cu, wum Wolfram, Zoinks looks pretty cool. I guess I have to build from source? I didn't find an emerge for it yet? Correct, no emerge yet - I found it at freshmeat. Just compile. As I have no idea on how to build an emerge maybe one of the specialists could do that. Should be simple because compiling shows no problems and the tool would be worth it. Ok, you'll find an unstable ebuild at bugs.gentoo.org. Greets, Tom -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
all snipped Hi, I have been reading this thread with interest. It is very easy to get the update process wrong, especially if the user is not sure what all the updates and changes are for. Is it possible for all updates to carry a copy of the previous config file, do a comparison with the user system and do an update if their has been no changes on the system using the new config file. If the comparison is different then the user can be guided to update manually or use diff etc. The -5 option could then be disabled. Just a thought regards Paul - This message was sent using gentoo linux and kmail --- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On 08/10/03 Wolfram Umlauf wrote: On 10 Aug 2003 05:49:24 -0700 Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2003-08-10 at 01:44, Wolfram Umlauf wrote: maybe zoinks from http://zoinks.mikelockwood.com/ is the solution for you. Works perfecly for me. cu, wum Wolfram, Zoinks looks pretty cool. I guess I have to build from source? I didn't find an emerge for it yet? Correct, no emerge yet - I found it at freshmeat. Just compile. As I have no idea on how to build an emerge maybe one of the specialists could do that. Should be simple because compiling shows no problems and the tool would be worth it. I made a ebuild for it, see http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=457778#457778 . It will be submitted in a few days. Marius -- Public Key at http://www.genone.de/info/gpg-key.pub In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be Light.' And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On Sun, 2003-08-10 at 01:44, Wolfram Umlauf wrote: maybe zoinks from http://zoinks.mikelockwood.com/ is the solution for you. Works perfecly for me. cu, wum Wolfram, Zoinks looks pretty cool. I guess I have to build from source? I didn't find an emerge for it yet? Thanks for the pointer. Cheers, Mark -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On Sunday 03 August 2003 14:59, Spider wrote: begin quote On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:56:03 -0500 Steven Elling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think passwd should be updated by etc-update. Neither Do I. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't get it, since portage -shouldnt- try to be smart on what files are suggested to update and not, but just do its thing, leaving such decisions to root, who is capable of doing them. portage will not remove a modified configfile (passwd) but will allow emerge baselayout, if you tell it to.Trying to be smart in cases like this will only lead to confusion and complexity. using etc-update is -optional- and a lot of people don't use it, some use another system (I know of one script which used vimdiff for example, I've seen others with diffstat.) OK. But as I stated in an earlier post, you cannot count on the user's system having the same mount / dump options or mount points. Neither can you count on a user's system using the same devices for the filesystems. I use SCSI in some system and IDE in others, plus, swap space is the first patition on my drives. that is why our default fstab has /dev/ROOT and /dev/BOOT, stopping such problematic things from happening. Unfortunately people still think that /dev/ROOT is a great harddrive to use, and thus assign it. Now, I'm not saying that updates to fstab shouldn't be made. I'm just saying the updates should be presented to the user in a different way. it is, its presented as /etc/._cfg.fstab ARRG... forget I even brought it up since no one understands what I saying -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
* Steven Elling (2003-08-03 07:03 +0200) On Saturday 02 August 2003 15:23, Stephane Brossier wrote: I emerge some ebuilds yesterday, and then i got a warning that I should run etc-update to merge some files. I used the -5 option which automaticall merge the files, and it seems it deleted some of my config files such as /etc/fstab. One of my questions about etc-update and portage is, why etc-update / portage even consider critical files like /etc/fstab for a update? It seems to me that files like this should never be considered for upgrades because they are static in nature, only need to be set up once, and if changes do need to be made it is because the admin of the box has changed the hardware configuration. This is in fact the point it is all about. There is no sense in updating fstab or /etc/passwd so these types of files should be always omitted. Another possibility would be to have etc-update issue a red warning when used with -5. Just another point: is the -5 useful at all? I mean, has anyone used that in a senseful way? If you really want to overwrite, you could have done 'CONFIG_PROTECT=-* emerge -u whatever', right? By the way: I never use etc-update. If I didn't configure the service, I just overwrite the config file, otherwise I do it manually. Thorsten -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
begin quote On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:50:42 +0200 Thorsten Kampe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is in fact the point it is all about. There is no sense in updating fstab or /etc/passwd so these types of files should be always omitted. Another possibility would be to have etc-update issue a red warning when used with -5. thats the point of being root. It allows you to do stupid things without getting in your way. But, I digress. passwd should be updated, at least until we get a very solid account management scheme with UID:name assignations to add, since, there is a point in sometimes updating system services ( forking out more basic stuff to users other than root for example) The fact that people use tools with sharp edges in a careless manner is unfortunate, but I'm not a believer in putting warningsigns on chainsaws as : Do not stop the rotating chain with your hands , neither am I a fan of are you truly sure you want to do this? dialogs, as they inspire careless use of tools by accustoming people to never read warnings. For a reason to upgrade fstab globally? perhaps changing defaults for some subentries? add recommendations for other mountpoints? or add supermount/automount support ? I can imagine a lot of reasons. I can also imagine a lot of reasons why a user should be careful when they see passwd fstab shadow and other files on the list to be updated. automation is an option. in this case, using -5 in etc-update is equal to doing rm -fr on files. its possible, but custom says you don't do that as root. //Spider -- begin .signature This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your .signature! See Microsoft KB Article Q265230 for more information. end pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 14:33:58 +1200, in gmane.linux.gentoo.user, David Friggens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...etc-update...] This is IMO the most very frustrating part of the way Gentoo works. 50*ACK :- [..] I've always found it more than satisfactory. etc-update automatically merges any trivial changes and then I use the interactive merge option (3, I think) to make sure my settings don't get overridden. How do I recognize trivial changes? Only upt to 3 lines affected? Then there are no trivial changes;-) [..] (*) Select the number of the file The selection list is very often too long to fit on a screen; the beginning of the list is rolled off the screen - not very clean. (*) Select 3) Interactively merge original with update (*) Update diff-by-diff how you like Admittedly this bit is the most unintuitive at first as it doesn't tell you what the options are. But if you type ? it gives you the list: ed: Edit then use both versions, each decorated with a header. eb: Edit then use both versions. el: Edit then use the left version. er: Edit then use the right version. e: Edit a new version. l: Use the left version. r: Use the right version. s: Silently include common lines. v: Verbosely include common lines. q: Quit. Usually a mix of r and l is all that's needed. Quite often I get confused which side is old (left?) and new, respectively. Also I lose track of the logical context, so I would have to trust the mechanics of sdiff _blindly_ - well, I don't! I copy the ._cfg-file to config.new and edit that manually (I re-inject my modifications). BTW, I don't understand the options beginning with 'e' (edit [then...]). Maybe it would be easier safer with vim-diff (seeing everything in context), but I would have to learn vim in the first place :-) Best regards, -Heribert -- Heribert Slama Muttenz, Switzerland -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On Sun, 2003-08-03 at 09:27, Heribert Slama wrote: This is IMO the most very frustrating part of the way Gentoo works. 50*ACK :- Glad to know I'm not alone. ;-) How do I recognize trivial changes? Only upt to 3 lines affected? Then there are no trivial changes;-) There aren't any trivial changes! If a 1-line change can bring your machine down, then EVERY single line must be chacked with the greatest of care. Quite often I get confused which side is old (left?) and new, respectively. My problem too! I hate to take up bandwidth offering nothing new, but hopefully the gods will be reading this and understanding that some/many/most of us have great concerns about this set of tools. Cheers, Mark -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On 03 Aug 2003 10:19:26 -0700, in gmane.linux.gentoo.user, Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [..] I hate to take up bandwidth offering nothing new, but hopefully the gods will be reading this and understanding that some/many/most of us have great concerns about this set of tools. An update tool for config files would have to understand syntax and constraints (on values) of all applications - that'd be asking too much. There are quite a few Gentoo developers fond of XML:- Config files could be distributed XML-ized, the application-specific final format could be generated from it. User modifications should (only) be applied with an XML-Editor (text-mode!g) to the XML file, then the final format be re-generated. Best regards, -Heribert -- Heribert Slama Muttenz, Switzerland -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
How do I recognize trivial changes? Only upt to 3 lines affected? Then there are no trivial changes;-) There aren't any trivial changes! If a 1-line change can bring your machine down, then EVERY single line must be chacked with the greatest of care. Spoken like someone who recently installed gentoo, and never had to look at a bunch of files where the only thing that had changed was the CVS header. I'm quite pleased with the automerging support. Quite often I get confused which side is old (left?) and new, respectively. My problem too! Then use a different diff command. You can change it in etc-update.conf. I don't have any suggestions but there have to be more out there. To the person who said -5 is useless, I disagree that. Every time I do an upgrade of XFree there's a buch of X config files modified that I don't care about. I merge the files I've modified, then -5 the rest of them. To the person (people) who think /etc/fstab never changes, older versions of baselayout required tmpfs mounted at /mnt/.init.d/ . New versions (maybe not in stable yet) don't. How do you suggest those changes get pointed out to the user? You're complaining that the automated tools don't do what you want them to--and now people are suggesting that fstab get run through *sed*?? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. If you don't like etc-update, edit the files manually. If you have a concrete suggestion for improving etc-update, feel free to say something. Etc-update is by no means perfect, but I don't see an obvious way to improve it. You might try the menu-based mode, which has been in development for quite some time. That will, at least, fix the too many files to fit on the screen problem. -Heschi -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On Sunday 03 August 2003 05:50, Thorsten Kampe wrote: Just another point: is the -5 useful at all? I mean, has anyone used that in a senseful way? If you really want to overwrite, you could have done 'CONFIG_PROTECT=-* emerge -u whatever', right? Yes, -5 is useful. When there are a considerable amount of config files to update, I go through and selectively merge the files I care about then use -5 to merge the rest I don't care about. Doing it this way saves time and hassle. You don't have to choose a file, do -1, answer yes and move on to the next for all the files you don't care about. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On Sun, 2003-08-03 at 10:56, Heschi Kreinick wrote: How do I recognize trivial changes? Only upt to 3 lines affected? Then there are no trivial changes;-) There aren't any trivial changes! If a 1-line change can bring your machine down, then EVERY single line must be chacked with the greatest of care. Spoken like someone who recently installed gentoo, and never had to look at a bunch of files where the only thing that had changed was the CVS header. I'm quite pleased with the automerging support. Oh, completely true!! I admit that I am not a programmer, and I actually think the world would be better if I never had to look at a CVS header file! ;-) Quite often I get confused which side is old (left?) and new, respectively. My problem too! Then use a different diff command. You can change it in etc-update.conf. This presumes that I have enough background to: 1) Know that it can be changed 2) Know what some options are 3) Feel confident that the change won't somehow cause the whole thing to break my machine. I fail on all three counts! ;-) ;-) I don't have any suggestions but there have to be more out there. To the person who said -5 is useless, I disagree that. I agree. I've only modified just a couple of files by hand, so I look for those, use -3 on them, and then use -5 on everything that's left. Every time I do an upgrade of XFree there's a buch of X config files modified that I don't care about. I merge the files I've modified, then -5 the rest of them. To the person (people) who think /etc/fstab never changes, older versions of baselayout required tmpfs mounted at /mnt/.init.d/ . New versions (maybe not in stable yet) don't. How do you suggest those changes get pointed out to the user? I agree completely that fstab needs at times, like recently, to be updated. However, for all the smart tools around here, I think it amazingly dense that etc-update -5 will replace a working partition number like /dev/hda6 with something like /dev/boot! It certainly should be able to find out which partitions I'm using for which purpose: /dev/hda6 /boot ext3 noauto,noatime 1 1 It requires me to remember which partition is which. Possibly fine for programmers and hardware techs, but not so nice for users. You're complaining Nothing I said was intended to be a complaint, so much as a statement that some of us find this part of the tools less refined than much of the Gentoo system. I'm not a programmer, don't have a real clue how to make it better. Sorry if it sounded negative. It wasn't meant to. How else could I express this desire to see this part of Gentoo get better? that the automated tools don't do what you want them to--and now people are suggesting that fstab get run through *sed*?? I don't know 'sed' and didn't suggest anything about it, even though I know you're just making an example. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. If you don't like etc-update, edit the files manually. If you have a concrete suggestion for improving etc-update, feel free to say something. Etc-update is by no means perfect, but I don't see an obvious way to improve it. Nor I really. I just think that throwing away user edits to fstab because possibly etc-update want to change a comment in the file is radical. I do think that some sort of editor that would show the changes side by side would be an improvement, but I don't know what tools would do that today. You might try the menu-based mode, which has been in development for quite some time. That will, at least, fix the too many files to fit on the screen problem. -Heschi Heschi, You've been very helpful in the past, and I know you will continue to be. Sorry if I sounded like I'm picking on this stuff. It's not my intention. I've had etc-update break my machine twice. I'm learning to be more careful. I'd like fewer people in the future to have these problems. With best regards, Mark -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
Mark Knecht: This presumes that I have enough background to: 1) Know that it can be changed 2) Know what some options are 3) Feel confident that the change won't somehow cause the whole thing to break my machine. I fail on all three counts! ;-) ;-) Then I think you would be better off with another distro. -- Magnus Nordseth -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On Sunday 03 August 2003 06:33, Spider wrote: thats the point of being root. It allows you to do stupid things without getting in your way. And that is fine. I wouldn't have it any other way. But, I digress. passwd should be updated, at least until we get a very solid account management scheme with UID:name assignations to add, since, there is a point in sometimes updating system services ( forking out more basic stuff to users other than root for example) I don't think passwd should be updated by etc-update. For one, would a system administrator edit the passwd file to add or delete a user, system or daemon account or replace it completely? I know I wouldn't because of the inherent danger in doing so. As a system administrator, I try to avoid editing the passwd and group files manually and use useradd, userdel, usermod, groupadd, groupdel, groupmod, etc. instead. I think Gentoo should behave like any good sensible sys admin and use useradd, userdel, usermod, groupadd, groupdel, groupmod, etc. to make updates when system services are added, removed or changed. UNIX and Linux already have a solid account management scheme so why reinvent the wheel? If the tools provided work, use them. The fact that people use tools with sharp edges in a careless manner is unfortunate, but I'm not a believer in putting warningsigns on chainsaws as : Do not stop the rotating chain with your hands , neither am I a fan of are you truly sure you want to do this? dialogs, as they inspire careless use of tools by accustoming people to never read warnings. Cough, Cough... Windows... Cough, Cough. For a reason to upgrade fstab globally? perhaps changing defaults for some subentries? add recommendations for other mountpoints? or add supermount/automount support ? OK. But as I stated in an earlier post, you cannot count on the user's system having the same mount / dump options or mount points. Neither can you count on a user's system using the same devices for the filesystems. I use SCSI in some system and IDE in others, plus, swap space is the first patition on my drives. Now, I'm not saying that updates to fstab shouldn't be made. I'm just saying the updates should be presented to the user in a different way. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On Sun, 2003-08-03 at 11:40, Magnus Nordseth wrote: Then I think you would be better off with another distro. You're welcome to your opinion, but you're also 3 emails behind. Gentoo runs fine for me. Thanks, Mark -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
I agree completely that fstab needs at times, like recently, to be updated. However, for all the smart tools around here, I think it amazingly dense that etc-update -5 will replace a working partition number like /dev/hda6 with something like /dev/boot! It certainly should be able to find out which partitions I'm using for which purpose: /dev/hda6 /boot ext3 noauto,noatime 1 1 It requires me to remember which partition is which. Possibly fine for programmers and hardware techs, but not so nice for users. This is the core of the problem. You're asking for specialized treatment for fstab. It might be doable. OK, so that goes in, and the next question is, what about rc.conf, and modules.d/alsa, and, and, and... Someone else pointed out that there is no standard format to config files in Unix. That's why this question is not easily, maybe at all, solvable. Maybe with some sort of plugin architecture, where each package supplies its own config updater for etc-update to run. But inevitably those updaters are going to have bugs. So people will have to check their configs after they're updated, and really, how much more time does it take to merge them by hand than just checking whether the merge was done correctly? that the automated tools don't do what you want them to--and now people are suggesting that fstab get run through *sed*?? I don't know 'sed' and didn't suggest anything about it, even though I know you're just making an example. Sorry, this was my poor attempt to address half a dozen posts without responding to each of them--it wasn't really directed at you. I do think that some sort of editor that would show the changes side by side would be an improvement, but I don't know what tools would do that today. This is exactly what merge interactively does. I think it's option 3 once you've selected a file to update. Someone else posted a more detailed explanation. I think the real problem that this has pointed out is that people expect etc-update to update config files for you. It doesn't. It doesn't even *try*. Used to be that Portage just printed something like: There are config files to be updated! use find -name .__cfg* to find them. Well, people weren't too happy with that. Surprise. So someone wrote etc-update, which basically did the find for you and gave you a couple options on how to handle the new one--delete the update, blindly accept the changes, or merge them with a diff command. But etc-update was in gentoolkit, and newbies never found it. And then they posted annoying messages to lists and groups about how stupid having to find config files manually was. So etc-update was moved into the portage package, and the help message was updated to mention it instead. So that brings us to today, where we have messages (these are the most recent in a long series of how -5 clobbered my system) about how stupid etc-update is. Well, yeah. It's not supposed to be smart. You're supposed to be. But OTOH, I'd say that it's sort of a documentation bug that this isn't explained very clearly anywhere, and I guess auto-merge is not obviously synonymous with DESTROY YOUR CONFIG FILES!! BAHAHAHAHAH!!'. Maybe someone should write a config file manual for the user docs section. But there's not anything wrong with etc-update, just with people's understanding of how it should be used. Hope that clears things up. -Heschi (PS: Mark: I may write angry-sounding emails, but generally that's just my style. If I'm really frustrated I don't write anything at all. No hard feelings on my side--I wrote because I thought your points, and other people's, were worth addressing.) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
begin quote On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:56:03 -0500 Steven Elling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think passwd should be updated by etc-update. Neither Do I. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't get it, since portage -shouldnt- try to be smart on what files are suggested to update and not, but just do its thing, leaving such decisions to root, who is capable of doing them. portage will not remove a modified configfile (passwd) but will allow emerge baselayout, if you tell it to.Trying to be smart in cases like this will only lead to confusion and complexity. using etc-update is -optional- and a lot of people don't use it, some use another system (I know of one script which used vimdiff for example, I've seen others with diffstat.) OK. But as I stated in an earlier post, you cannot count on the user's system having the same mount / dump options or mount points. Neither can you count on a user's system using the same devices for the filesystems. I use SCSI in some system and IDE in others, plus, swap space is the first patition on my drives. that is why our default fstab has /dev/ROOT and /dev/BOOT, stopping such problematic things from happening. Unfortunately people still think that /dev/ROOT is a great harddrive to use, and thus assign it. Now, I'm not saying that updates to fstab shouldn't be made. I'm just saying the updates should be presented to the user in a different way. it is, its presented as /etc/._cfg.fstab //Spider -- begin .signature This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your .signature! See Microsoft KB Article Q265230 for more information. end pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On Sun, 2003-08-03 at 12:54, Heschi Kreinick wrote: It requires me to remember which partition is which. Possibly fine for programmers and hardware techs, but not so nice for users. This is the core of the problem. You're asking for specialized treatment for fstab. It might be doable. OK, so that goes in, and the next question is, what about rc.conf, and modules.d/alsa, and, and, and... Yes, I agree with your points completely. Absolutely! However I still think that possibly a -5 on /etc/fstab shouldn't be allowed to happen at all as the machine can become highly nonfunctional. I'd suggest, as an outgrowth of this conversation, that maybe that file specifically should be skipped when using -5. That would be no worse than not doing etc-update at all, which it seems is many people's answer to this problem. Beyond that a -3 on fstab could have some special messages about being careful. That's pretty minimal programming (I think!) and would help protect, but not stop, newbies like me from hosing things up too badly. (Am I getting beyond newbie status if I've fixed this problem twice and now know not to do this, as well as having a backup plan just n case I do?) ;-) Even today I could not understand, as we are having this conversation, why the etc-update process was so fixated on replacing my hand crafted fstab file with one that had no new changes and removed all my system information, replacing it with things that were simply not true about my hardware. It seemed timely to see that one more time. As for rc.conf or modules.d/alsa, neither (to the best of my knowledge) make the machine nonfunctional. Good backups, or even just a copy of /etc which is about all I'm doing now to get around this problem, would allow a user to fix things. So that brings us to today, where we have messages (these are the most recent in a long series of how -5 clobbered my system) about how stupid etc-update is. Well, yeah. It's not supposed to be smart. You're supposed to be. I think this is a great point, but if left at this point will never remove the -5 clobbered my system messages. There will always be new users. etc-update and modules-update as Gentoo specific AFAIK actions and new users will trip a lot in the beginning. Hope that clears things up. -Heschi (PS: Mark: I may write angry-sounding emails, but generally that's just my style. If I'm really frustrated I don't write anything at all. No hard feelings on my side--I wrote because I thought your points, and other people's, were worth addressing.) And I thank you for that! - Mark -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On 03 Aug 2003 11:17:55 -0700 Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ Lot of stuff snipped ] I agree with a lot of stuff on both sides of the argument. I have raised this issue in the past. 1) the current etc-update is a big improvement over past versions. 2) Yes, Gentoo is a distro for those at least somewhat familiar with sysadmin techniques, but it could become somewhat more user friendly with respect to updating config files without any harm. Remarks like you have the wrong distro if you're not an expert like me don't really help anyone, but only confirm the snobbishness of the author. 3) Emerging changes to a lot of run scripts and miscellaneous X scripts that are seldomed modified as a normal rule is one thing, but it is absolute bloody nonsense ever to provide a file that would allow users to inavertently overlay fstab, passwd, users, or anything else that would prevent a successful boot. All it takes is one wrong keystroke, and you're hosed. 4) There really needs to be a standard mechanism that notifies users when a critical config file update is necessary and prompts the user to make the changes manually. The etc-update procedure could be trained to look for files like .*_fix_etc_fstab (or some such naming convention) which files would describe the necessary changes and their reasoning. Just my $.02. -- Collins Richey - Denver Area if you fill your heart with regrets of yesterday and the worries of tomorrow, you have no today to be thankful for. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On Sunday 03 August 2003 20:33, Spider wrote:
begin quote
On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:50:42 +0200
Thorsten Kampe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is in fact the point it is all about. There is no sense in
updating fstab or /etc/passwd so these types of files should be
always omitted. Another possibility would be to have etc-update issue
a red warning when used with -5.
thats the point of being root. It allows you to do stupid things without
getting in your way.
But, I digress. passwd should be updated, at least until we get a very
solid account management scheme with UID:name assignations to add,
since, there is a point in sometimes updating system services ( forking
out more basic stuff to users other than root for example)
Actually, ebuild's use the command enewuser to add users. Those users which
are added are never removed automatically. Here's the line from quake3 for
example:
enewuser q3 -1 /bin/bash /opt/quake3 ${GAMES_GROUP}
As to the automation of merging changes, it seems most people use -3 to update
files they are interested in and then -5 for files they aren't. It would seem
to me that the files that root hasn't touched are known to portage through
the /var/db/pkg/section/package/CONTENTS file. Perhaps, -5 should be run
automatically on files that haven't been touched? Or better yet, emerge
should only protect config files which have changed.
Just my $0.02.
Jason
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 15:54:37 -0400, in gmane.linux.gentoo.user, Heschi Kreinick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a few remarks on selected issues: [..] ... So people will have to check their configs after they're updated, and really, how much more time does it take to merge them by hand than just checking whether the merge was done correctly? My latest #emerge -u system threw **58** config files at me:- I had to check every item; about 30 files belonged to X and were never customized - but this had to be verified (easy but boringsigh). For the remaining files I used an editor. [] Maybe someone should write a config file manual for the user docs section. But there's not anything wrong with etc-update, just with people's understanding of how it should be used. The missing doc is what's wrong with etc-update. Maybe using a difference editor as the default choice instead of sdiff, would make things easier for newcomers. Best regards, -Heribert -- Heribert Slama Muttenz, Switzerland -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 16:26:55 -0600, in gmane.linux.gentoo.user, Collins Richey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [..] 4) There really needs to be a standard mechanism that notifies users when a critical config file update is necessary and prompts the user to make the changes manually. [..] The first run of #emerge pkg should install nothing but a Memo to User (text file) and display it. Emerge knows the versions installed and could include only as much hints as needed for the intended version jump. Today, I'm forced to remember a feature in a GWN issued weeks or months ago. Best regards, -Heribert -- Heribert Slama Muttenz, Switzerland -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: etc-update and fstab...
On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:56:03 -0500, in gmane.linux.gentoo.user, Steven Elling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [..] I don't think passwd should be updated by etc-update. For one, would a system administrator edit the passwd file to add or delete a user, system or daemon account or replace it completely? I know I wouldn't because of the inherent danger in doing so. As a system administrator, I try to avoid editing the passwd and group files manually and use useradd, userdel, usermod, groupadd, groupdel, groupmod, etc. instead. ACK. But once came in a new group (+passwd) file with an enlarged set of standard group names (gid 1000). One of these names had already been in the previous file but with a different gid (IRC it was 'slocate'; luckily only 2 items in the filesystem needed special treatment, to get the right gid number into their inodes.) Best regards, -Heribert -- Heribert Slama Muttenz, Switzerland -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
