RE: [gentoo-user] unable to emerge anything...Fixed
I quickpkg'd a newer version of gcc with USE='-hardened' from a livecd and emerged gentools. That did the trick. I've learned A LOT through this experience. The challenge was worth the experience (I can say that now that it's over with). Thanks very much. Gentoo is so great because of this community! -Richard -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
install CD - a CD, which is outdated. ... hardware where to install it? No. So why do not having an official livecd makes it incomplete? Think it the other way. Gentoo is, among other things, a way to install Linux from any decent Linux live cd. From this point of view, the fact that Gentoo sometimes releases an 'official' live cd is more of a luxury than something it needs to be complete. m. Hi, As I wrote before, there is a tool, calles catalyst, which is used to create official and up-to-date gentoo livecd. Everybody have the chance to create their own. I did it, that means, it is not really hard to learn :) By the way, I customized my livecd to support the rsync-to-the-hard-drive and viola', you have a fresh and running system :) The official install CD is a good marketing and reference, but in fact, it is not necessary. I think, this issue not really critical. If somebody needs, create his own or change the distro. Power of freedom :) Cheers, István -- eGroupWare, gLiveCD, gentoo és barátai http://www.osbusiness.hu „A humor a méltóság támasza, fölényünket hirdeti mindazzal szemben, amit a sors ránk mér.” (Romain Gary) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
On Saturday 12 January 2008, Qian Qiao wrote: I can understand why you guys think we are so compelled to have a Gentoo LiveCD, because every other OS does, and to be honest, that is exactly the reason that stops you guys thinking out of the box, in what way is being able to install Gentoo from any LiveCD/distro a bad thing? In everyway it should be considered one of Gentoo's strengths? Joe, You have hit the nail on the head. The users around here pushing the idea to have an install CD just do not get it, and are probably *not*able* to think out the box. They can comprehend is Gentoo = Gentoo install CD, precisely because virtually every other OS does it this way. And they have been indoctrinated to think this is the only way it can work, or they have drunk the PR department Kool-Aid or suffer from Red Hat Inc.'s major disease - Not Invented Here syndrome. I've had hundreds of people pass through my Linux sysadmin courses, and guess which concept they have most trouble grasping? It's not how initrd works, Xen, or LVM (the usual assumed suspects), it's how do you manage to use an Ubuntu LiveCD to fix a broken Red Hat system? Or how did I install Red Hat using Ubuntu as a bootstrap system (possible, but waay more trouble than it's worth) Such people should probably be running Ubuntu or a binary distro as they don't fit the profile of gentoo's target audience. Before anyone flames me to oblivion for insulting them, it's not an insult. I just recognize that you want to buy a high performance passenger car, and gentoo sells an experimental plane in kit form. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
On Saturday 12 January 2008, James wrote: As far as I'm concerned, the Gentoo install CD could easily be dropped without a loss. Well, I differ with this statement 100%. What, IMHO, needs to happened is the whole install process be changed to a minimal working kernel and basic tools. Then you fork the install in the direction as to what the system is to be used for: embedded-gentoo, firewall, bridge, managed switch, server (mail, web, dns, terminal etc etc) and last the complicated nightmare of a workstation (kde vs gnome vs etc etc). Excellent idea. When can we expect your first alpha-release? When we have rough consensus and your running code, we can include your project in the list of workable install methods. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
· James [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Michael Schmarck michael.schmarck at habmalnefrage.de writes: Well, actually, I never used a Gentoo install CD to install Gentoo. I also don't quite understand, why anyone would need such a beast. Folks new to gentoo, would find it suspicious, for a distro not to have it's own install. Why's that? The documentation should just point to some other install CDs, if you'd like to call GRML that. Other forks of Gentoo have their install methods. Nice for them. For those new to gentoo, it's like getting married without a honeymoon IMHO. I don't get that. To install Gentoo, I'd boot my favorite rescue system (GRMl nowadays, Knoppix back then, but IMO Knoppix is too fat for *this* *task*) and install from there. No need for an install CD. OK, fine, then why doesn't of the persons that says it so easy, just take a GRMl (or whatever) cd and add the minimal (non gui) stuff to the same cd and make a simple to use 'install cd' for gentoo that is unofficial? Why should that be done? GRML (or whatever) come with their own GUI. And for the installation of Gentoo, the only GUI that's needed, is a terminal. Wouldn't it be easy for all of those whose answer this installation question over and over and over, to make a basic install cd on top of GRMl once and be done with it? No. That would outdate as well and wouldn't support newer hardware. But what would be gained by doing what you suggest? As far as I'm concerned, the Gentoo install CD could easily be dropped without a loss. Well, I differ with this statement 100%. Fine. Why? What, IMHO, needs to happened is the whole install process be changed to a minimal working kernel and basic tools. That's what you get, when you use some other Live CD like Ubuntu or whatever. [...] the SD media when he runs out of disk space. That's the kind of project where embedded gentoo and gentoo workstations need seemless integration. Cool :) But what does that have to do with an installation CD? Michael Schmarck -- If you don't see why, please stay the fuck away from my code. Rusty, in linux-2.6.6/Documentation/DocBook/kernel-locking.tmpl -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
Am Sonntag, 13. Januar 2008 schrieb Alan McKinnon: On Saturday 12 January 2008, James wrote: As far as I'm concerned, the Gentoo install CD could easily be dropped without a loss. Well, I differ with this statement 100%. What, IMHO, needs to happened is the whole install process be changed to a minimal working kernel and basic tools. Then you fork the install in the direction as to what the system is to be used for: embedded-gentoo, firewall, bridge, managed switch, server (mail, web, dns, terminal etc etc) and last the complicated nightmare of a workstation (kde vs gnome vs etc etc). Excellent idea. When can we expect your first alpha-release? When we have rough consensus and your running code, we can include your project in the list of workable install methods. And while where at it: Get those stage1 installs back into the Handbook. I did a stage3 install 2 weeks ago and it was a nightmare. One needs to recompile nearly everything afterwards, so stage3 doesn't make any difference. Bye... Dirk signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Saturday 12 January 2008, Richard Marzan wrote: Although he works for Microsoft, Daniel is the one who created this project. For reference, Daniel *did* work for Microsoft but left about 18 months or so ago. Per his web site he is now involved in a web-based financial trading concern. If he has since gone back to Microsoft unannounced then someone will correct me on that. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Sunday 13 January 2008, James wrote: I read one poster that blasted Ciaran McCreesh Also recently, I read a thread where he created an alternative to portage, and that many respected techies on this list actually use his replacement for portage. The poster that blasted Ciaran, misses a simple point. (Machiavellian aside). You have break some eggs to create an omlette. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccol%C3%B2_Machiavelli That poster was me. Ciaran McCreesh is involved with the development of Paludis, and it IS superior to portage in many respects. One of it's strengths is that he didn't consider himself bound by portage's constraints. I didn't miss the eggs and omelettes point and I don't appreciate the Machiavelli reference. Ciaran is probably very convinced of his rightness and reading his postings you might think he's making a lot of sense. but read deeper and analyse the *results* of his postings, especially on places like -dev. In three years I've come across lots of threads he participates in, and I have yet to see a single one where he correctly stated at the end that someone else was right and he was wrong. Just because he writes good C++ code doesn't make him a good visionary for Gentoo, in much the same way that just because Bill Gates and friends built the most financially successful OS ever makes their business model right. Other than that I find your post to be lucid, well thought out and obviously written by someone with some (many?) miles under his feet. Others reading this thread would do well to read it in it's entirety and have a good long quiet think about it. I'll quote the last paragraph here for reference as it sums things up nicely (for me at least): Gentoo needs leadership that is accountable to the user community but also bound to a set of bylaws that we agree with. Keeping the distro free is paramount, but, creating avenues for financial success for products and services centric to gentoo is a necessary requisite too, IMHO. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Sunday 13 January 2008, Mark Kirkwood wrote: James wrote: In my mind I'm an accomplished person. In her mind I'm just another stupid EE, Hey James - Interesting post - this eludes me tho, what is an EE? Electronic Engineer -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On 13 January 2008, Mark Kirkwood wrote: James wrote: In my mind I'm an accomplished person. In her mind I'm just another stupid EE, Hey James - Interesting post - this eludes me tho, what is an EE? Electronic Engineer? Uwe -- If a man speaks in a forest, and no woman listens to him, is he still lying? -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Saturday 12 January 2008, fire-eyes wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: Ciaran Mcreesh - I am very specifically looking at you here. Very strongly agree with Mr McCreesh (spelling?). While I respect his technical abilities and contributions, I believe his horrible attitude, clear trolling and ability to pit devs against each other, seemingly for fun, is far more harmful. That he wasn't gotten rid of early on is actually the biggest sign of problems in my eyes. That he has fans and followers is another. Ciaran seems to suffer from a horrible affliction that is common amongst highly technical people: A poorly developed sense of how to deal with other people coupled with never having realised that people are not machines, do not react like machines and need to be handled differently. You maintain machines by focusing on what is wrong with them and changing that. You handle people by focusing on what they do right and reinforcing that. I used to do what Ciaran does, and I used to do it a *lot*. Lucky for me, one day someone came along with a very big stick and hammered it through my thick skull that there is a better way. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
Perhaps a user's perspective. A clueless user. Gentoo is the ass-kickinest distro I have tried. The docs are the best in the Linux communities. Where does that leave me and where does that leave Gentoo now? I am impelled to write after seeing numerous posts about the apparent demise of GWN, and now the usual divisive arguments about Daniel Robbins's recent innuendoes to the community of Gentoo. Once common thread in the former discussion is the we don't need not stinkin' install CD argument. I beg to differ, for whatever reason, but I won't discuss the reason(s) at the current time, except to state that the more recent (2007) installs went a LOT more smoothly than earlier ones, and my three machines have become so much of a headache to maintain that I am preparing to install again. Arguments against it aside. Unless I decide that Ubuntu is easier and better. (It IS easier. Is it better? No, but it's more painless for a clueless user, in some manners). That being said, one other thing begs to be discussed: Daniel Robbins is still interested in participating (albeit his demands---the extend, anyway, that I have read of them, tend to slightly put me off, but that's beside the point. I think it is necessary to take up this issue (surprized as I am that this would even BE an issue) in full light of the GWN and the install CD discussions. I want there to be a gentoo. I want there to be a well documented and not horribly painful way to install. I like the concept. Gentoo is still working well, but those soft spots that I mentioned are serious and troubling ones. When I first came into Gentoo, one thing I noticed was the kindness of Gentoo experts in the mailing list discussions. Debian experts often left clueless users in the lurch, with their readiness to say RTFM and lack of real support in many cases. Gentoo people have been kind, I have not been told to RTFM, although I was (thankfully) often told where to find more information on a subject. This off-putting political undercurrent of the Gentoo community has me worried. Is this the beginning of the RTFM choir? I hope not. Why would Daniel Robbins's opinions or suggestions not be of interest? Why do so many diss him so? I am looking for positive suggestions. Sorry for the waste of time, Alan Davis Teacher and GNU/Linux enabled independent scholar and scientist. On Jan 13, 2008 7:37 PM, Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 12 January 2008, fire-eyes wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: Ciaran Mcreesh - I am very specifically looking at you here. Very strongly agree with Mr McCreesh (spelling?). While I respect his technical abilities and contributions, I believe his horrible attitude, clear trolling and ability to pit devs against each other, seemingly for fun, is far more harmful. That he wasn't gotten rid of early on is actually the biggest sign of problems in my eyes. That he has fans and followers is another. Ciaran seems to suffer from a horrible affliction that is common amongst highly technical people: A poorly developed sense of how to deal with other people coupled with never having realised that people are not machines, do not react like machines and need to be handled differently. You maintain machines by focusing on what is wrong with them and changing that. You handle people by focusing on what they do right and reinforcing that. I used to do what Ciaran does, and I used to do it a *lot*. Lucky for me, one day someone came along with a very big stick and hammered it through my thick skull that there is a better way. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list -- Alan Davis, Kagman High School, Saipan [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's never a matter of liking or disliking ... ---Santa Ynez Chumash Medicine Man -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On 13 January 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: A poorly developed sense of how to deal with other people coupled with never having realised that people are not machines, do not react like machines and need to be handled differently. You maintain machines by focusing on what is wrong with them and changing that. You handle people by focusing on what they do right and reinforcing that. I used to do what Ciaran does, and I used to do it a *lot*. Lucky for me, one day someone came along with a very big stick and hammered it through my thick skull that there is a better way. And thus focused on what you were doing wrong. grin Uwe -- If a man speaks in a forest, and no woman listens to him, is he still lying? -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
On Sunday 13 January 2008, Dirk Heinrichs wrote: And while where at it: Get those stage1 installs back into the Handbook. I did a stage3 install 2 weeks ago and it was a nightmare. One needs to recompile nearly everything afterwards, so stage3 doesn't make any difference. IIRC, they were removed because being in the official handbook, people used them. Then caused endless traffic on endless forums and lists when they did it wrong (mostly because they didn't know enough yet about the process and followed bad ricing advice). The stage 1 and 2 tarballs are still available - I used them recently to build a custom stage 3 with catalyst, and the stage 1/2 install pages are still available in an archive somewhere. So they're not gone, just hard to find for those still finding their way around. Which is probably not a bad thing overall IMHO -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Sunday 13 January 2008, Uwe Thiem wrote: On 13 January 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: A poorly developed sense of how to deal with other people coupled with never having realised that people are not machines, do not react like machines and need to be handled differently. You maintain machines by focusing on what is wrong with them and changing that. You handle people by focusing on what they do right and reinforcing that. I used to do what Ciaran does, and I used to do it a *lot*. Lucky for me, one day someone came along with a very big stick and hammered it through my thick skull that there is a better way. And thus focused on what you were doing wrong. grin hehehe, spoken like a true African - direct, blunt and to the point :-) The technique worked though! -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] unable to emerge anything...Fixed
On Sunday 13 January 2008, Richard Torres wrote: I quickpkg'd a newer version of gcc with USE='-hardened' from a livecd and emerged gentools. That did the trick. I've learned A LOT through this experience. The challenge was worth the experience (I can say that now that it's over with). Thanks very much. Gentoo is so great because of this community! Cool. Did we ever establish what the error was precisely? I lost track of the thread meanwhile... -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Sunday 13 January 2008, James wrote: I turn down most opportunities to be on a BOD with many organizations, but, I care about Gentoo quite a lot. If Gentoo is truely in crisis, why have the devs not discuss this with the wider user community? This simple fact make the whole state of affairs suspicious to say the least. It could just be managerial ineptitude though, combined with emotional immaturity of certain persons (if Alan's previous critique re.treating persons as machines holds true). After reading the aforementioned Blog (by Daniel), I have strong reservations about Daniels 'vision'. First, let him publish his vision, including who he wants to name to the board of trustees and the governing bylaws (or changes) he is proposing. Second if he wants to be the day bay (tribal chief) then he should have only a vote as to the makeup of the BOD. Allowing him to return with the sole responsibility to select a BOD, is a recipe for doom, IMHO. You can describe DOOM as you wish, but, giving carte-blanche control to him, or anyone, is foolish, at best. Doing so with no published data, nor restrictive covenants, nor by-laws, nor mission statement, nor accountability mechanisms is unwise, IMHO. Hear, hear! You echo my reservations very well, in case they didn't come through clear enough in my previous post. It also sounds to me as though Daniel, is trying to trick or provoke the trustees into allowing him to decide the future of the distro without first telling us what that future is to be. Exactly. But this may have to do with his (and others) disagreement with Ciaran? But then again why the trustees have become apathetic and have not sought out replacement for themselves, is inexcusible if indeed this is the case. Daniel probably understands the inherent value in an established distro, such as gentoo, and might just be looking to use it (gentoo) more as a private fiefdom than an engine for the future benefit of the greater gentoo community. Dunno. I don't know either, but as you have suggested in your previous message and also propose below there are ways of putting checks and balances in place to ensure that: 1. Strategic direction is decided by the wider community in a democratic way, while preserving the Gentoo principles (i.e. the majority of *future* users may want a Ubuntu like distro, but that's not what Gentoo is about). 2. Tactical decisions on what coding should be used, are taken by devs, so that they enable the strategic direction and objectives to be achieved. 3. An administrative body with responsible and professional individuals is elected to undertake the necessary tasks required to keep Gentoo operating and moving forwards, without putting at risk its e.g. legal status. I see the above three as distinctly different areas of endeavour which tend to attract different skillsets and personality profiles. So it makes sense to define them separately, especially as it will offer a focus for succinct deliverables and responsibilities. The boundaries of decision making are clear and if life changing moments arrive the the whole Gentoo community is asked to participate to the decision making. As such here are a few tenants I'd like to see in the article of incorporation, bylaws, or where ever the focus of Gentoo is publish. Like wise you could also view this as my vision of Gentoo's future. Needless to say, I'm what out in front of those that want gentoo to become something they use to make a living with, if not reach some measure of significant financial success. 1. Keep Gentoo open and free for all to use and exploit to earn a living, create a business, become an entrepreneur, educate and use as the individual determines is in the best interest of the individual. 2. Keep licensing more in line with the BSD license for Gentoo centric technology (thus encouraging entrepreneurship as defined by the individual while simultaneously respecting GPLv2 and maintaining compliance with GPLv2. GPLv3 is a poor idea, IMHO. GPLv3 can be made easily available and leave GPLv3 compliance/responsibility up to the individual. In fact software licensing and compliance should always be up to the INDIVIDUAL, IMHO. Digression I love conspriracy theories: Here one that makes you think. Greenpeace receives it's largest contributions from those that what to keep the energy markets closed to all but the largest corporations. Ha! Is that true!?? Who are the largest contributors? Here's another: GPLv3 is the work of The Son of Satan, who sits atop a mountain in Redmond.. /end Digression 3. Devise a formal sematic to install of all gentoo's instantiations that is open and flexible so various groups can easily create their own installation semantics and share their installation semantics with the wider public communities. (competition is the best way to solve the current gentoo installation quagmire,
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 10:08:43 +0100, Dirk Heinrichs wrote: And while where at it: Get those stage1 installs back into the Handbook. I did a stage3 install 2 weeks ago and it was a nightmare. One needs to recompile nearly everything afterwards, so stage3 doesn't make any difference. Except that you can use the system while it is recompiling. I switched to using Stage 3 installs about three years ago, it's so much easier and gives you a working system in under an hour. The fact that it spends the next day or two recompiling in the background, at a nice level of 19, doesn't detract from that at all. -- Neil Bothwick Sevareid`s Law: The chief cause of problems is solutions. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Routing problem ?
I redo the diagram to show the gw info. Router1: UTSStarCom WA3002G4 Wireless Router with 4 ethernet ports NAT is enabled (Just a tickbox) PC1, PC2 : gentoo, 2.6.18.3 kernel Router2: LinkSys WRT54GL (default firmware) used as access point -- 192.168.1.1 default gw: ISP net 192.168.2.0 gw: 192.168.1.23 +-+ ++ | |---| Router1 |=ASDL conn | | ++ | | | | | |192.168.1.23 +---+ 192.168.2.43 | |--| PC1 |))). +-+ +---+ . Passive Hub gw: 192.168.1.1 . . 192.168.2.1 . ++ . | W.AccessPt |--)))... | (Router2) | ++ | +--+ | PC2 | +--+ 192.168.2.24 gw: 192.168.2.43 Yo Yo wrote: btw, why don't you use the wireless on the ROUTER1 (doesn't seem you want to do any firewalling on the PC1)? Because this box is temporary, it will be replaced with a non-wireless one by the ISP. Richard Torres wrote: snip .. Unless you have 2 networks that need to be separate only one is needed. If you have a wireless router, use it as a wireless access point and not a router. Which means turn off DHCP on the wireless router and don't configure or use the WAN connection. This router is LinkSys WRT54GL with default firmware and I am using it really as an access point. There is no option to disable the WAN connection, so I left it as 'DHCP'. Depending on the capabilities of the router you can connect a LAN port on Router2 to your ADSL (Router1) router and assign an IP address that's in the same network as Router1. I agree this would have simplified the network, but the problem is, I cannot run a cable due to walls in between. The default firmware on LinkSys does not provide a client option. (Yes, I am aware of OpenWrt/DD-WRT etc ) I hope using the client option does not prevent the access point function. reader wrote: By correct gateway I think in this case it would be the inward facing address of pc1 (192.168.2.43) so on router2 you would set the gw to that address. Already done. And on pc2 the gw would be 192.168.2.1. That is unless router2 is just a WAP (wireless access point). As router is just a WAP, the gw is set to 192.168.2.43. kashani wrote: Router1 is the NAT device and everything else is internal or so I assumed. You don't want NAT behind NAT on your network if you can help it. It tends to break things and is hard to troubleshoot. I just ticked the 'Enable NAT' tickbox in the router configuration. PC1 does need to have IP forwarding turned on which the original poster mentioned he configured. Yes, this is done. The tests I would run are: ping 192.168.2.43 from router1. That'll test that router1 knows how to get to 192.168.2.0. I don't think packet forwarding has to be working for this to return since the interfaces are all local on PC1. Ping is ok. ping router 1 from PC2 and vice versa. That'll make sure that PC1 is forwarding packets correctly. Ping is ok. If both of these are fine, it's possible the router1 is not NATing 192.168.2.0/24 addresses. Do you think an ISP would allow only one LAN segment (like 192.168.1.x) and not allow 192.168.2.x at the same time ? Is there any incentive for them ? One thing, I cannot understand is the difference in traceroute results. What does this say in plain english ? :-) At PC2 # traceroute 218.248.240.46 (ISP's DNS server) traceroute to 218.248.240.46 (218.248.240.46), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 192.168.2.43 (192.168.2.43) 1.730 ms 0.840 ms 0.920 ms 2 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 1.440 ms 1.469 ms 1.287 ms 3 * * * 4 * * * At PC1 # traceroute 218.248.240.46 traceroute to 218.248.240.46 (218.248.240.46), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 0.848 ms 0.706 ms 0.681 ms 2 117.192.128.1 (117.192.128.1) 19.712 ms 18.878 ms 19.920 ms 3 218.248.160.134 (218.248.160.134) 19.292 ms 19.796 ms 19.190 ms -- sathish -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
Michael Schmarck schrieb: · Norman Rieß [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Michael Schmarck schrieb: · Norman Rieß [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Right, basicly telling people You have to depend on / use other distros to install our OS, cause we are not able to / don´t have time to provide this sounds a little fishy. It makes Gentoo look incomplete. Well, but providing outdated (ie. non-usable for new systems) install medium is also very bad. And if the installer doesn't work (satisfactory), then that gives an even worse impression. Michael Schmarck I agree. And i don't think that this is contradicting my statement, does it? Depends. You're saying, that Gentoo might look to be incomplete, if it were to rely on other distributions (Live CDs). I'm saying, that it currently already looks to be incomplete, despite there being a install CD - a CD, which is outdated. Michael Schmarck Still no complaints about your opinion from my side ;-). In short. An outdated InstallCD is bad and no InstallCD at all is bad, too.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
James ha scritto: OK, fine, then why doesn't of the persons that says it so easy, just take a GRMl (or whatever) cd and add the minimal (non gui) stuff to the same cd and make a simple to use 'install cd' for gentoo that is unofficial? Because you don't have to add *anything* to such cd. -What do you need to install Gentoo? A working Linux live cd with a terminal and chroot. -Are a terminal and chroot available on 99.9% of Linux live cds in the world? Yes. Since I installed Gentoo actually *only* from non-Gentoo cds in my life (Knoppix or Kubuntu), I can *guarantee* nothing Gentoo-specific is needed on such cds. Sure, a list pointing to good, known live cds could be fine. Wouldn't it be easy for all of those whose answer this installation question over and over and over, to make a basic install cd on top of GRMl once and be done with it? But IT'S ALREADY A BASIC INSTALL CD by itself! :) Well, I differ with this statement 100%. What, IMHO, needs to happened is the whole install process be changed to a minimal working kernel and basic tools. Then you fork the install in the direction as to what the system is to be used for: embedded-gentoo, firewall, bridge, managed switch, server (mail, web, dns, terminal etc etc) and last the complicated nightmare of a workstation (kde vs gnome vs etc etc). Of of the best features of Gentoo, is how easy maintaining and managing a server is. 99.999% of the issues with updates to gentoo, are related to the wide variety of packages available for workstations..? This approach could be used to build a basic installation with support for a wide variety of hardware, within a particular architecture. Then as the amount of installation packages are increase, logically break the installation across multiple (media) CDs. For example something like this Basic system complete packagingworkstation kernel, baselayout...needs to be discussed X, kde, gnome, This is something I disagree completely. Isn't the goal of Gentoo to give you as much fine-grained as possible control on your system? If we begin to create generic workstation,server etc. installs, we have to do A LOT of assumptions on what is a workstation, server etc. for people. What packages and what not. And you are sure that on a community as idiosyncratic and addicted to fine-tuning like the Gentoo one, you won't make very much people happy with your assumptions. How many of us, for example, don't bother with KDE or Gnome completely and build a Fluxbox or XFCE based workstation (Not me, but I know of many)? To me the install must start from a minimal set of packages, just to have a working system able to communicate with the world. From there, it's the user that chooses. Heck, choosing packages and USE flags is the fun part of a new Gentoo install. It's when that install becomes *your* install. However, if installing gentoo, when asked, gives dozens of different answers, depending on a variety of asymmetrical, emotionally charged opinions, then the distro will continue to languish, and be a reclusive club for experts, or those with very think skin (to which I belong you pick) Trust me, I'm not an expert nor someone with a thick skin. There's a lot I don't like of Gentoo, paradoxically one of these things is the time I have to dedicate to system administration (I know there's nothing I can do about that, it's just sometimes I'd like to build a sysadmin clone of myself that does maintaineance when I'm sleeping :) ). I'm not an IT guy, I'm a biologist that uses his Gentoo machines as desktops and workstation. And when I started, I was the classical newbie that used Mandrake for a year. I also still use Kubuntu in my laboratory, because there I need something that can be installed fast, works out of the box and that I don't have to mess around later at all. Simply, Gentoo gives you control and the tools for making this control logical, if not easy. And has a documentation and community of the best quality, that's one of the many things that keeps me stick to Gentoo. Ubuntus are good,slick systems,I sincerely like them: but their documentation is worse and their community is full of people that are relatively clueless with respect to the Gentoo community. So much that often if I have troubles with Kubuntu, the docs I end to read are Gentoo docs. Installing gentoo, when asked, you know, has just one answer: The Handbook. No dozens of different answers, no asymmetrical and emotionally charged opinions. It's simple as that: Fire a suitable Linux live cd and read the handbook. You can't get much more strict than that. The greater Gentoo community should decide what is best for gentoo and the installation semantic is the most important piece of advertisment/marketing that the Gentoo organization will ever devise, IMHO. Having such a well done, step by step and detailed installation handbook is one of the best marketing tools of
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
Alan McKinnon schrieb: On Saturday 12 January 2008, Qian Qiao wrote: I can understand why you guys think we are so compelled to have a Gentoo LiveCD, because every other OS does, and to be honest, that is exactly the reason that stops you guys thinking out of the box, in what way is being able to install Gentoo from any LiveCD/distro a bad thing? In everyway it should be considered one of Gentoo's strengths? Joe, You have hit the nail on the head. The users around here pushing the idea to have an install CD just do not get it, and are probably *not*able* to think out the box. They can comprehend is Gentoo = Gentoo install CD, precisely because virtually every other OS does it this way. And they have been indoctrinated to think this is the only way it can work, or they have drunk the PR department Kool-Aid or suffer from Red Hat Inc.'s major disease - Not Invented Here syndrome. I've had hundreds of people pass through my Linux sysadmin courses, and guess which concept they have most trouble grasping? It's not how initrd works, Xen, or LVM (the usual assumed suspects), it's how do you manage to use an Ubuntu LiveCD to fix a broken Red Hat system? Or how did I install Red Hat using Ubuntu as a bootstrap system (possible, but waay more trouble than it's worth) Such people should probably be running Ubuntu or a binary distro as they don't fit the profile of gentoo's target audience. Before anyone flames me to oblivion for insulting them, it's not an insult. I just recognize that you want to buy a high performance passenger car, and gentoo sells an experimental plane in kit form. I have installed Gentoo in many ways, the old UniversalCD, the LiveCD, others Distros LiveCD's, from a working Gentooinstallation to a usb-connected drive which was transferred to boot in a old laptop and so on. But i still think a Gentoo-Install-CD/DVD is a good thing. So your statement The users around here pushing the idea to have an install CD just do not get it, and are probably *not*able* to think out the box. is clearly not bulletproof. Norman -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] TTF Fonts
zou ha scritto: I think you could do this right by adding the fonts to fonts:/// (or something like this) More specifically, I usually install them via Konqueror: - Start Konqueror - Type fonts:// on the address bar - Start another Konqueror window/tab and copy TTF files to the fonts:// window. I am sincerely extremly ignorant about what does this mean system wise (but it works), so if someoen can enlighten us I'd be happy. m. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
Norman Rieß ha scritto: I have installed Gentoo in many ways, the old UniversalCD, the LiveCD, others Distros LiveCD's, from a working Gentooinstallation to a usb-connected drive which was transferred to boot in a old laptop and so on. But i still think a Gentoo-Install-CD/DVD is a good thing. Any practical reason for that? m. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] TTF Fonts
Hello On Sat, Jan 12, 2008 at 01:46:20PM -0400, Naiani Rosa de Barros wrote: Hi everyone. I'd like to know if these instructions here http://www.madeinclay.net/?p=8 are still valid for adding ttf fonts to Gentoo. I don't remember what I did last time (more than 1 yr ago), but I don't think it was the same procedure. The article on Gentoo-Wiki seems outdated to me, so I'd appreciate if anyone could tell me if this is the right way. You can install many fonts by just emerging them. -- Fragile. Do not turn umop ap1sdn! Michal 'vorner' Vaner pgp5OAXzgJhkQ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
b.n. schrieb: Norman Rieß ha scritto: I have installed Gentoo in many ways, the old UniversalCD, the LiveCD, others Distros LiveCD's, from a working Gentooinstallation to a usb-connected drive which was transferred to boot in a old laptop and so on. But i still think a Gentoo-Install-CD/DVD is a good thing. Any practical reason for that? m. No, only psychological, political, philosophical ones. Norman
Re: [gentoo-user] Routing problem ?
Hi, On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:42:56 +0530 Holla [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing, I cannot understand is the difference in traceroute results. What does this say in plain english ? :-) At PC2 # traceroute 218.248.240.46 (ISP's DNS server) traceroute to 218.248.240.46 (218.248.240.46), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 192.168.2.43 (192.168.2.43) 1.730 ms 0.840 ms 0.920 ms 2 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 1.440 ms 1.469 ms 1.287 ms 3 * * * 4 * * * At PC1 # traceroute 218.248.240.46 traceroute to 218.248.240.46 (218.248.240.46), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 0.848 ms 0.706 ms 0.681 ms 2 117.192.128.1 (117.192.128.1) 19.712 ms 18.878 ms 19.920 ms 3 218.248.160.134 (218.248.160.134) 19.292 ms 19.796 ms 19.190 ms I'd say your router (Router1) isn't doing NAT for packets from other subnets than it's LAN interface is configured for -- regardless of the (correctly) configured internal additional route. So your option would be to set up PC1 for doing NAT, not necessarily for packets 192.168.2/24-192.168.1/24, but for all packets from 192.168.2/24 going to the internet. Your provider most likely does not have anything to do with all this. -hwh -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
Norman Rieß wrote: b.n. schrieb: Norman Rieß ha scritto: I have installed Gentoo in many ways, the old UniversalCD, the LiveCD, others Distros LiveCD's, from a working Gentooinstallation to a usb-connected drive which was transferred to boot in a old laptop and so on. But i still think a Gentoo-Install-CD/DVD is a good thing. Any practical reason for that? m. No, only psychological, political, philosophical ones. Norman I agree. While Gentoo can be installed, fixed or whatever without a install CD, it is the first thing a person looks for to install from. I guess one way to look at it is this, someone looking to install Mandriva wouldn't be looking for anything else but a Mandriva CD. It's just logical to me. Heck, even though I am on the slowest dial-up I have even seen, I still keep the latest install CD laying around just in case. I also have a old Knoppix tho. o_O Maybe things will get back on track soon. Dale :-) :-) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
David Relson wrote: On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:25:55 -0600 Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: ...[snip]... You are missing the point of Gentoo then. We are NOT a binary distro (to repeat ad nauseum). If you want that kind of install, please change distros. I do find these other methods of install to be interesting though. Has anyone on this list ever used a PXE boot image to install? I thought the point of gentoo was the ability to customize settings for optimal performance/ and fit. I see this customization as starting during installation and continuing after that. I also see it as separate from _how_ the initial installation occurs. Is it gentoo's goal to make the installation difficult so only a select group can do the install? Or is the goal to make gentoo a great distro? In the latter case, why not make the installation easy? David I'm sorry, but this is such a well-worn path and has been beat to death. This is not Ubuntu or yadda yadda yadda. This Gentoo. Maybe this is the price of admission. If it is, well too bad. If all the Gentoo users that fill the mailinglists and forums have been able to install Gentoo with the aid of the best docs, you should be able too. Gentoo does not make it's goal to be difficult. Because it is different than the way YOU think it should be. It is what it is. Not what you want or will be happy with? Go somewhere else. -- Edward A Mihalow Jr Mudbug Computers and Networks Gentoo! Linux Registered Linux User#225662 New Orleans,LA -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: On Samstag, 12. Januar 2008, Richard Marzan wrote: On Sat, 2008-01-12 at 18:22 +0100, Renat Golubchyk wrote: On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:07:39 -0500 Richard Marzan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although he works for Microsoft, Daniel is the one who created this project. He doesn't work for Microsoft any longer. Check Wikipedia or Google for relevant news. Cheers, Renat Even more of a reason to bring him back! no, just another sign that he never pulls through. I guess you don't get the point of being also in a flame war with a ex-dev who although very bright lacks in all the social skills. I read the thread of these two going at it and hell, I wanted to leave. Who needs the grief of listening to that crap from some a**hole who LEFT the project. Give me a break. -- Edward A Mihalow Jr Mudbug Computers and Networks Gentoo! Linux Registered Linux User#225662 New Orleans,LA -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Forums Crashed
Dale wrote: Richard Cox wrote: Anybody else get a DB error when trying to access the forums? Seems like it may have been overwhelmed with the Robbins debate going on. Works fine here. Even found the thread. Oh, I'm in Mississippi USA if it matters. http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-644321-highlight-daniel+robbins.html Dale :-) :-) Oh, I'm sorry Dale! Hehe. -- Edward A Mihalow Jr Mudbug Computers and Networks Gentoo! Linux Registered Linux User#225662 New Orleans,LA -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:35:55 +0100, b.n. wrote: But i still think a Gentoo-Install-CD/DVD is a good thing. Any practical reason for that? It is a lot more comfortable for the first-time installer. One of the problems with mixing components for various sources is knowing where to turn for help when things go wrong. A single source means a single point of contact, and no chance of each supplier blaming the other's component. While a Gentoo install CD is not essential for installing Gentoo, it is a good thing to have. It also allows you to install without a network connection if you have a single CD containing the handbook, tools, portage snapshot and stage files. That's how I installed my new desktop last year, because the install CD didn't support my network card (nor did the latest stable kernel). So while an official install disc is not necessary for installation for many people, it is a part of what Gentoo should offer. Note that I'm referring to what is now called the minimal CD, the GUI installer CD is still a waste of resources IMO. -- Neil Bothwick I distinctly remember forgetting that. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:06:39 +0100, b.n. wrote: Because you don't have to add *anything* to such cd. -What do you need to install Gentoo? A working Linux live cd with a terminal and chroot. -Are a terminal and chroot available on 99.9% of Linux live cds in the world? Yes. You also need the handbook, a portage snapshot and a stage tarball. How many live CDs provide these? -- Neil Bothwick If at first you don't succeed, call it Windows NT. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Create mutli-file .zip archives from the command line?
Hi there, Anyone got any suggestions on this, please? I have a honking great big DVD image on one of my servers seem to be having problems transferring it to a Windows box over a flakey wireless connection. I'm wondering if the reason is because it's over 4gb in size. What I thought to do was to break the .iso into a multi-part .zip archive, transfer the separate files over to the Windows PC and then unzip them back into the original big file using Explorer's built-in (XP) zip file handling. I know I could do this by using RAR - or some other untility - instead, but that would require me to install additional software on the PC, which I'd rather not do. Besides, I'm surprised to find that app-arch/zip - nor any other utility I can immediately find in Portage - doesn't seem to handle this. Thanks in advance for any comments, Stroller. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Sunday 13 January 2008 15.07.57 Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: I guess you don't get the point of being also in a flame war with a ex-dev who although very bright lacks in all the social skills. I read the thread of these two going at it and hell, I wanted to leave. Who needs the grief of listening to that crap from some a**hole who LEFT the project. Give me a break. That would be two a**holes in that discussion. If you read it you would know that may devs tried to correct drobbins but that he couldn't accept the fact that he wasn't the chief anymore and that things have changed since he left. I'm not sure that the best guy to run Gentoo is a guy who wants to be THE chief and not one of the community. -- Naga -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
Naga Toro wrote: On Sunday 13 January 2008 15.07.57 Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: I guess you don't get the point of being also in a flame war with a ex-dev who although very bright lacks in all the social skills. I read the thread of these two going at it and hell, I wanted to leave. Who needs the grief of listening to that crap from some a**hole who LEFT the project. Give me a break. That would be two a**holes in that discussion. If you read it you would know that may devs tried to correct drobbins but that he couldn't accept the fact that he wasn't the chief anymore and that things have changed since he left. I'm not sure that the best guy to run Gentoo is a guy who wants to be THE chief and not one of the community. First D Robbins created Gentoo. Second what part of ex-dev don't you understand. If you are an ex-dev you shouldn't even be in the discussion period. -- Edward A Mihalow Jr Mudbug Computers and Networks Gentoo! Linux Registered Linux User#225662 New Orleans,LA -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
· Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:06:39 +0100, b.n. wrote: Because you don't have to add *anything* to such cd. -What do you need to install Gentoo? A working Linux live cd with a terminal and chroot. -Are a terminal and chroot available on 99.9% of Linux live cds in the world? Yes. You also need the handbook, a portage snapshot and a stage tarball. How many live CDs provide these? None. But the portage snapshot is best fetched from the web anyway, as far as I'm concerned. Same with the handbook, as it may contain (theoritcal) up-to-the minute corrections. So, the portage snapshot and handbook don't have to on the Live CD. Stage Tarball - well, yes, that's an additional download, that's true. Michael Schmarck -- Narrator: Oh, no! He's heading towards Townsville! -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
· Hemmann, Volker Armin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Samstag, 12. Januar 2008, Richard Marzan wrote: On Sat, 2008-01-12 at 18:22 +0100, Renat Golubchyk wrote: On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:07:39 -0500 Richard Marzan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although he works for Microsoft, Daniel is the one who created this project. He doesn't work for Microsoft any longer. Check Wikipedia or Google for relevant news. Cheers, Renat Even more of a reason to bring him back! no, just another sign that he never pulls through. Or a sign, that he has his own vision and doesn't want to bend for it. Michael Schmarck -- People tend to make rules for others and exceptions for themselves. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Sunday 13 January 2008, Mick wrote: I turn down most opportunities to be on a BOD with many organizations, but, I care about Gentoo quite a lot. If Gentoo is truely in crisis, why have the devs not discuss this with the wider user community? This simple fact make the whole state of affairs suspicious to say the least. It could just be managerial ineptitude though, combined with emotional immaturity of certain persons (if Alan's previous critique re.treating persons as machines holds true). Odds are that this is the real explanation. Gentoo management is full of people who are good devs but simply do not know how to run a group. To see this, just read over minutes of meeting etc held on IRC. There's little evidence of a meeting being chaired by someone who keeps things on track and on agenda, and meetings usually devolve into discussions of technical matters. It's entirely reasonable to assume that these same people will just ignore things outside their expertise that they don't understand and hope the problem will go away if they ignore it. Just as the solution to having a maintainer of a project that can't code is to replace him with someone who can, the solution to gentoo's current woes seems to be to appoint bodies to management who do know how to do it and have a track record of doing it. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Create mutli-file .zip archives from the command line?
Hi! On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:21:30 + Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I thought to do was to break the .iso into a multi-part .zip archive, transfer the separate files over to the Windows PC and then unzip them back into the original big file using Explorer's built-in (XP) zip file handling. I know I could do this by using RAR - or some other untility - instead, but that would require me to install additional software on the PC, which I'd rather not do. Besides, I'm surprised to find that app-arch/zip - nor any other utility I can immediately find in Portage - doesn't seem to handle this. I don't know whether zip can do this, but you could use split to split the .iso into smaller pieces and then combine them on your Windows box with copy [1]. Cheers, Renat [1] http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb490886.aspx -- Probleme kann man niemals mit derselben Denkweise loesen, durch die sie entstanden sind. (Einstein) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Create mutli-file .zip archives from the command line?
Am Sonntag, 13. Januar 2008 schrieb Stroller: I know I could do this by using RAR - or some other untility - instead, but that would require me to install additional software on the PC, which I'd rather not do. You could use 7-Zip e.g. from portableapps.com So you don't need to install it. Besides, I'm surprised to find that app-arch/zip - nor any other utility I can immediately find in Portage - doesn't seem to handle this. Well, there is zipsplit which belongs to app-arch/zip. But I never used it. Maybe it does the trick for you. Regards, Jens -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Sunday 13 January 2008 15.33.28 Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: Naga Toro wrote: On Sunday 13 January 2008 15.07.57 Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: I guess you don't get the point of being also in a flame war with a ex-dev who although very bright lacks in all the social skills. I read the thread of these two going at it and hell, I wanted to leave. Who needs the grief of listening to that crap from some a**hole who LEFT the project. Give me a break. That would be two a**holes in that discussion. If you read it you would know that may devs tried to correct drobbins but that he couldn't accept the fact that he wasn't the chief anymore and that things have changed since he left. I'm not sure that the best guy to run Gentoo is a guy who wants to be THE chief and not one of the community. First D Robbins created Gentoo. Yeah so? He created Gentoo and then moved on. Thus leaving in the same sense or more since he didn't keep contributing, as the other dev did. Second what part of ex-dev don't you understand. Point being? If you are an ex-dev you shouldn't even be in the discussion period. As both of them where. -- Naga -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Create mutli-file .zip archives from the command line?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:59:04 +0100 Renat Golubchyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:21:30 + Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I thought to do was to break the .iso into a multi-part .zip archive, transfer the separate files over to the Windows PC and then unzip them back into the original big file using Explorer's built-in The problem is that fat32 can't handle files that are larger than 4gb-1byte. So, will still be unable to unzip or unrar that iso image. Unzip would just stop with an error when it reaches that limit. This is a technical limitation of fat32 itself. There is nothing unzip or unrar could do about this. Fat32 just can't index more than 2^32 (4294967296) bytes. It uses 32 bits to index a given file, and any number above that (well, above 4294967295, since we start at 0) just doesn't fit into a 32 bits word. Which means that fat32 can't handle it. You have many other alternatives: use ntfs or even ext3/2. I know that there are drivers to use these filesystems on windows, I don't know how good or bad they are, though. :) -- Jesús Guerrero [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] TTF Fonts
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:09:39 +0100 b.n. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: zou ha scritto: I think you could do this right by adding the fonts to fonts:/// (or something like this) More specifically, I usually install them via Konqueror: - Start Konqueror - Type fonts:// on the address bar - Start another Konqueror window/tab and copy TTF files to the fonts:// window. I am sincerely extremly ignorant about what does this mean system wise (but it works), so if someoen can enlighten us I'd be happy. On a previous level of this thread I tell how to install fonts for just the current user: you put them into ~/.fonts/ What konqueror does is the same thing, but hidding the concrete details to the user (that is what kio-slaves are all about: abstraction, which can be good or bad, as you can see now). -- Jesús Guerrero [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
· Norman Rieß [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Still no complaints about your opinion from my side ;-). *G* In short. An outdated InstallCD is bad and no InstallCD at all is bad, too. I agree that an outdated Install CD is bad. But I disagree, that no Install CD at all is bad. I think it's not bad. Michael Schmarck -- Computer Science is the only discipline in which we view adding a new wing to a building as being maintenance -- Jim Horning -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] TTF Fonts
Well, the location fonts:/// does not exist on Xfce, so the installation has to be manual. I ended up finding this other article on Gentoo-Wiki, http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_XFS_and_Custom_Fonts , which works well. The only thing I don't like is having to run ttmkfdir fonts.scale, mkfontdir, /etc/init.d/xfs restart everytime I want to add a new font. But I guess it's a small price to pay. Thank you guys! Naiani On Jan 13, 2008 8:05 AM, Michal 'vorner' Vaner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello On Sat, Jan 12, 2008 at 01:46:20PM -0400, Naiani Rosa de Barros wrote: Hi everyone. I'd like to know if these instructions here http://www.madeinclay.net/?p=8 are still valid for adding ttf fonts to Gentoo. I don't remember what I did last time (more than 1 yr ago), but I don't think it was the same procedure. The article on Gentoo-Wiki seems outdated to me, so I'd appreciate if anyone could tell me if this is the right way. You can install many fonts by just emerging them. -- Fragile. Do not turn umop ap1sdn! Michal 'vorner' Vaner -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
· Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:35:55 +0100, b.n. wrote: But i still think a Gentoo-Install-CD/DVD is a good thing. Any practical reason for that? It is a lot more comfortable for the first-time installer. Why's that? One of the problems with mixing components for various sources is knowing where to turn for help when things go wrong. A single source means a single point of contact, and no chance of each supplier blaming the other's component. In theory, that's true. But can you point to bugs, mailing list submissions or maybe forum posts, which indicate that there are problems because something's done in a chroot originating from a non-Gentoo system which would not exist, if the chroot were started from a Gentoo system (the Gentoo Install CD)? While a Gentoo install CD is not essential for installing Gentoo, it is a good thing to have. Depends. I'd rather say, that it is rather superfluous. It also allows you to install without a network connection if you have a single CD containing the handbook, tools, portage snapshot and stage files. How do you get that stuff (the Install CD)? By downloading? Why can't you download the handbook, snapshot and stage tar ball as well at that time? And what tools are you talking about? fdisk? chroot? So while an official install disc is not necessary for installation for many people, it is a part of what Gentoo should offer. I disagree. Maybe it's a bonus if it's offered, but then it always has to be up-to-date. And that, obviously, cannot be done right now. So I'd rather say, that it would be better, if there were no install CD at all. Michael Schmarck -- He is considered a most graceful speaker who can say nothing in the most words. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Create mutli-file .zip archives from the command line?
Hi, some file systems are not able to handle files bigger than size X. Fat32 for example only handles 4GB. Win often uses Fat32. Maybe this is your problem. Kons Renat Golubchyk wrote: Hi! On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:21:30 + Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I thought to do was to break the .iso into a multi-part .zip archive, transfer the separate files over to the Windows PC and then unzip them back into the original big file using Explorer's built-in (XP) zip file handling. I know I could do this by using RAR - or some other untility - instead, but that would require me to install additional software on the PC, which I'd rather not do. Besides, I'm surprised to find that app-arch/zip - nor any other utility I can immediately find in Portage - doesn't seem to handle this. I don't know whether zip can do this, but you could use split to split the .iso into smaller pieces and then combine them on your Windows box with copy [1]. Cheers, Renat [1] http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb490886.aspx -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
On Sunday 13 January 2008, Norman Rieß wrote: I have installed Gentoo in many ways, the old UniversalCD, the LiveCD, others Distros LiveCD's, from a working Gentooinstallation to a usb-connected drive which was transferred to boot in a old laptop and so on. But i still think a Gentoo-Install-CD/DVD is a good thing. So your statement The users around here pushing the idea to have an install CD just do not get it, and are probably *not*able* to think out the box. is clearly not bulletproof. You miss my point. The thread is about users insisting that Gentoo must have an installer because how else would one install Gentoo? which is patently not true. My comment was to highlight that people who don't see the truth of that probably can't think out the box. I didn't pull this comment out my ass either, it's based on several hundred observations of me personally, in face-to-face situations, explaining to people how a typical Linux install process works and observing how many get it and how many don't. Please don't respond to my posts in isolation, treating them as 10 second sound bites. They are in a thread, and part of a larger context. If you want a Gentoo installer then by all means go ahead and make one. Or you can pay someone to make one for you. That is how FLOSS works after all. But is not justifiable to make the creation of such an installer a top-priority for Gentoo, as such a thing ALREADY EXISTS. It just doesn't have a Gentoo G logo on it. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] TTF Fonts
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:46:20 -0400 Naiani Rosa de Barros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone. I'd like to know if these instructions here http://www.madeinclay.net/?p=8 are still valid for adding ttf fonts to Gentoo. I don't remember what I did last time (more than 1 yr ago), but I don't think it was the same procedure. The article on Gentoo-Wiki seems outdated to me, so I'd appreciate if anyone could tell me if this is the right way. I just emerge them. If I need to install any font just for an user, I just put it into ~/.fonts/. -- Jesús Guerrero [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
Michael Schmarck wrote: SNIP How do you get that stuff (the Install CD)? By downloading? Why can't you download the handbook, snapshot and stage tar ball as well at that time? And what tools are you talking about? fdisk? chroot? SNIP Michael Schmarck Actually, I order mine off the net. It would take over a week to download a CD over this crappy dial-up and this crappy dial-up is all I can get right now. DSL is coming tho. I can actually order the CD and get it faster through the mail that I can download it. Go figure. Dale :-) :-) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
Michael Schmarck schrieb: · Norman Rieß [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Still no complaints about your opinion from my side ;-). *G* In short. An outdated InstallCD is bad and no InstallCD at all is bad, too. I agree that an outdated Install CD is bad. But I disagree, that no Install CD at all is bad. I think it's not bad. Michael Schmarck Ok, i'm fine with that.
Re: [gentoo-user] TTF Fonts
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:00:57 -0400 Naiani Rosa de Barros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, the location fonts:/// does not exist on Xfce, so the installation has to be manual. I ended up finding this other article on Gentoo-Wiki, http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_XFS_and_Custom_Fonts , which works well. The only thing I don't like is having to run ttmkfdir fonts.scale, mkfontdir, /etc/init.d/xfs restart everytime I want to add a new font. But I guess it's a small price to pay. Thank you guys! You usually don't need to. Kde should pick the fonts just the same moment you install them. Other X programs need a re-building of the font cache. That is done when X is restarted, but you can also do it manually on a term with something like this: xset fp rehash That will re-read all the font dirs (the default gentoo configuration include system dirs and also local dirs, like ~/.fonts/). If you want to add a font path, you need to issue this other command before the one above: xset +fp /new/path of xset fp+ /new/path To prepend or append a new path, then rehash it as shown above. The xfs solution is something that is mostly deprecated, and it is a resource waste and a completely useless thing on a desktop machine. I don't recommend the xfs stuff at all. -- Jesús Guerrero [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
Alan McKinnon schrieb: On Sunday 13 January 2008, Norman Rieß wrote: I have installed Gentoo in many ways, the old UniversalCD, the LiveCD, others Distros LiveCD's, from a working Gentooinstallation to a usb-connected drive which was transferred to boot in a old laptop and so on. But i still think a Gentoo-Install-CD/DVD is a good thing. So your statement The users around here pushing the idea to have an install CD just do not get it, and are probably *not*able* to think out the box. is clearly not bulletproof. You miss my point. The thread is about users insisting that Gentoo must have an installer because how else would one install Gentoo? which is patently not true. My comment was to highlight that people who don't see the truth of that probably can't think out the box. I didn't pull this comment out my ass either, it's based on several hundred observations of me personally, in face-to-face situations, explaining to people how a typical Linux install process works and observing how many get it and how many don't. Please don't respond to my posts in isolation, treating them as 10 second sound bites. They are in a thread, and part of a larger context. If you want a Gentoo installer then by all means go ahead and make one. Or you can pay someone to make one for you. That is how FLOSS works after all. But is not justifiable to make the creation of such an installer a top-priority for Gentoo, as such a thing ALREADY EXISTS. It just doesn't have a Gentoo G logo on it. I think we have a different understandig about this thread. Norman
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
Naga Toro wrote: On Sunday 13 January 2008 15.33.28 Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: Naga Toro wrote: On Sunday 13 January 2008 15.07.57 Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: I guess you don't get the point of being also in a flame war with a ex-dev who although very bright lacks in all the social skills. I read the thread of these two going at it and hell, I wanted to leave. Who needs the grief of listening to that crap from some a**hole who LEFT the project. Give me a break. That would be two a**holes in that discussion. If you read it you would know that may devs tried to correct drobbins but that he couldn't accept the fact that he wasn't the chief anymore and that things have changed since he left. I'm not sure that the best guy to run Gentoo is a guy who wants to be THE chief and not one of the community. First D Robbins created Gentoo. Yeah so? He created Gentoo and then moved on. Thus leaving in the same sense or more since he didn't keep contributing, as the other dev did. Second what part of ex-dev don't you understand. Point being? If you are an ex-dev you shouldn't even be in the discussion period. As both of them where. Evidently you are new to Gentoo. D Robbins was broke after starting Gentoo and working on it day and night and trying to support a family he needed money. You can't live on nothing. Get it now? He was the dev that created Gentoo not just another dev. Ciaran is a smart dev, but he was only a dev. He quit of his own volition due to the disagreement with other devs as to the direction of Portage. Fine, but don't come back on gentoo-dev and start a bunch of sh**. If you don't like the way things are done start your own distro! Don't come back and crap all over everyone's hard work. There I made it clear for you. It is proper behavior and communication between intelligent people with respect. -- Edward A Mihalow Jr Mudbug Computers and Networks Gentoo! Linux Registered Linux User#225662 New Orleans,LA -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:53:48 +0100, Michael Schmarck wrote: You also need the handbook, a portage snapshot and a stage tarball. How many live CDs provide these? None. But the portage snapshot is best fetched from the web anyway, as far as I'm concerned. Same with the handbook, as it may contain (theoritcal) up-to-the minute corrections. So, the portage snapshot and handbook don't have to on the Live CD. No, but it's a lot easier if they are when doing a networkless install. -- Neil Bothwick Top Oxymorons Number 43: Genuine imitation signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Create mutli-file .zip archives from the command line?
On 13 Jan 2008, at 15:13, Jesús Guerrero wrote: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:21:30 + Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I thought to do was to break the .iso into a multi-part .zip archive, transfer the separate files over to the Windows PC and then unzip them back into the original big file using Explorer's built-in The problem is that fat32 can't handle files that are larger than 4gb-1byte. So, will still be unable to unzip or unrar that iso image. I believe you're mistaken in the direct cause of my problem. I'm using NTFS on the Windows XP machine. The file is the same size in bytes (8056211212) on the destination XP machine as it is on the Samba host, but the md5sums (using Sumemr Properties under XP) don't match. The reason I mentioned 4gb is kinda off-topic here, but I've had problems in the past running BitTorrent on Linux box, saving files to a directory which was samba mounted from another Linux box. I assumed that there was some kind of 4gb limitation of SMB - and a friend remarked the same problems (using a Mac) - but googling does not seem to support this. Thanks to the other posters for their excellent suggestions - I'll try them later today report back. Stroller. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:00:20 +0100, Michael Schmarck wrote: It is a lot more comfortable for the first-time installer. Why's that? Because a first-time installer benefits from the confidence given by using an official install disc. It also allows you to install without a network connection if you have a single CD containing the handbook, tools, portage snapshot and stage files. How do you get that stuff (the Install CD)? By downloading? Why can't you download the handbook, snapshot and stage tar ball as well at that time? And what tools are you talking about? fdisk? chroot? Everything needed can be obtained by downloading one ISO image and burning it to CD. There's no need for extra trips back the the netted computer to fetch things you discover you need after reading the handbook, or partway through the install. So while an official install disc is not necessary for installation for many people, it is a part of what Gentoo should offer. I disagree. Maybe it's a bonus if it's offered, but then it always has to be up-to-date. And that, obviously, cannot be done right now. So I'd rather say, that it would be better, if there were no install CD at all. But it can be done. The basic CD is a minimal live CD with portage snapshots and stage tarballs, which is relatively easy to keep up to date. What is holding the process back in the insistence on including a full desktop and graphical installer on the CD, which is a complete waste of effort IMO. I would prefer releng to concentrate on producing the traditional style minimal CD, with the installer project releasing their own discs based on this when they are able. -- Neil Bothwick When you choke a smurf, what color does it turn? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Sonntag, 13. Januar 2008, Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: Naga Toro wrote: On Sunday 13 January 2008 15.07.57 Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: I guess you don't get the point of being also in a flame war with a ex-dev who although very bright lacks in all the social skills. I read the thread of these two going at it and hell, I wanted to leave. Who needs the grief of listening to that crap from some a**hole who LEFT the project. Give me a break. That would be two a**holes in that discussion. If you read it you would know that may devs tried to correct drobbins but that he couldn't accept the fact that he wasn't the chief anymore and that things have changed since he left. I'm not sure that the best guy to run Gentoo is a guy who wants to be THE chief and not one of the community. First D Robbins created Gentoo. Second what part of ex-dev don't you understand. If you are an ex-dev you shouldn't even be in the discussion period. that is one of the most stupid things I ever read on this list. So users should never be part of discussions? Their needs? Their opinions? Also, drobbins continued his attacks even after explained SEVERAL times that the stuff ciaranm was doing was a) wanted and b) helpfull and c) supervised by devs. But he couldn't shut up OR accept that things changed since he left. Somebody who can not deal with changes, is somebody certainly unfit for leadership. Yes, he started gentoo (my first gentoo was 1.0). And compared to the chaotic times, gentoo is a heaven of stability today. Back under drobbins leadership it was ok, that the tree was broken or some update screwed your system. Happened all the time - nobody complained (too loudly). And some day he left. Things changed. Gentoo is much more stable today. There is no breakage of the week. No large scale surprising 'nothing works anymore'. A lot of things were done - without him. And he comes back and thinks that he can do better? Please - he already has shown that he can't. He has shown that he will leave projects after a short while (stampede, freebsd, enoch, gentoo, Microsoft). He has never shown that he can pull through with a project. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Create mutli-file .zip archives from the command line?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:34:01 + Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 13 Jan 2008, at 15:13, Jesús Guerrero wrote: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:21:30 + Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I thought to do was to break the .iso into a multi-part .zip archive, transfer the separate files over to the Windows PC and then unzip them back into the original big file using Explorer's built-in The problem is that fat32 can't handle files that are larger than 4gb-1byte. So, will still be unable to unzip or unrar that iso image. I believe you're mistaken in the direct cause of my problem. I'm using NTFS on the Windows XP machine. The file is the same size in bytes (8056211212) on the destination XP machine as it is on the Samba host, but the md5sums (using Sumemr Properties under XP) don't match. The reason I mentioned 4gb is kinda off-topic here, but I've had problems in the past running BitTorrent on Linux box, saving files to a directory which was samba mounted from another Linux box. I assumed that there was some kind of 4gb limitation of SMB - and a friend remarked the same problems (using a Mac) - but googling does not seem to support this. Well, that is new info. If you are using ntfs then the issue is not the one I suspected. I know nothing about samba+big files, I did never use it with big files, but I haven't hear of such a problem before. I'd blame the wireless connection, but if the problem is only with that file, then that should not the be proble either. Anyway, I don't know if the winxp builtin feature supports multi part zip files, so I would bet that using split+copy would be the easiest thing to do. You can still compress it into a single zip file before splitting it, that way you might save some bandwidth (or not, since most of the dvd contents is already compressed via codecs anyway). -- Jesús Guerrero [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On 2008-01-13 16:29:15 (+), Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:53:48 +0100, Michael Schmarck wrote: You also need the handbook, a portage snapshot and a stage tarball. How many live CDs provide these? None. But the portage snapshot is best fetched from the web anyway, as far as I'm concerned. Same with the handbook, as it may contain (theoritcal) up-to-the minute corrections. So, the portage snapshot and handbook don't have to on the Live CD. No, but it's a lot easier if they are when doing a networkless install. I think that's what the whole discussion here is about. Should Gentoo become an elite meta-distro or do we actually want 'less then ultimate geek' people using it. A lot of the very verbal people over here seem to want the former. I agree that Gentoo shouldn't become an Ubuntu like distro, but the minimal install cd is, at least for me, a requirement. If there's too much work for the current devs then they should do something about it. After the whole p.g.o mess a lot of people, including myself, offered to become a dev. But I'm still awaiting replies from 3-4 herds. The whole discussion going on over here has a much deeper cause, lack of leadership. Every dev does what seems best for him or his herd, but the bigger whole seems to be lacking a lot. And I'm affraid that untill deeper problems are solved, Gentoo will keep losing users and more important, keep losing credability. Regards, Ken -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] VMware Server Tools
Am Freitag, 11. Januar 2008 09:53:36 schrieb Sergey Kobzar: I prefer to use portage tree for additional software. That's why I chose Gentoo. -- Sergey Use the open-vm-tools. They work quite fine and contain all features provided by the previous closed source ones. Regards, Elias P. -- A really nice number: 09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re[2]: [gentoo-user] VMware Server Tools
Hi Elias, Sunday, January 13, 2008, 7:36:45 PM, you wrote: Am Freitag, 11. Januar 2008 09:53:36 schrieb Sergey Kobzar: I prefer to use portage tree for additional software. That's why I chose Gentoo. -- Sergey Use the open-vm-tools. They work quite fine and contain all features provided by the previous closed source ones. Regards, Elias P. Thanks for recommendation. I installed open-vm-tools already and they look good! :) Hope it's a good replacement for proprietary VMware Tools. -- Sergey -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Sunday 13 January 2008 17.31.20 Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: Naga Toro wrote: On Sunday 13 January 2008 15.33.28 Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: Naga Toro wrote: On Sunday 13 January 2008 15.07.57 Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: I guess you don't get the point of being also in a flame war with a ex-dev who although very bright lacks in all the social skills. I read the thread of these two going at it and hell, I wanted to leave. Who needs the grief of listening to that crap from some a**hole who LEFT the project. Give me a break. That would be two a**holes in that discussion. If you read it you would know that may devs tried to correct drobbins but that he couldn't accept the fact that he wasn't the chief anymore and that things have changed since he left. I'm not sure that the best guy to run Gentoo is a guy who wants to be THE chief and not one of the community. First D Robbins created Gentoo. Yeah so? He created Gentoo and then moved on. Thus leaving in the same sense or more since he didn't keep contributing, as the other dev did. Second what part of ex-dev don't you understand. Point being? If you are an ex-dev you shouldn't even be in the discussion period. As both of them where. Evidently you are new to Gentoo. D Robbins was broke after starting Gentoo and working on it day and night and trying to support a family he needed money. You can't live on nothing. Get it now? He was the dev that created Gentoo not just another dev. Back then yes. (and no I'm not new to Gentoo, been using it for years and been an official part of since about 3/4 of a year) Ciaran is a smart dev, but he was only a dev. He quit of his own volition due to the disagreement with other devs as to the direction of Portage. Fine, but don't come back on gentoo-dev and start a bunch of sh**. If you don't like the way things are done start your own distro! Don't come back and crap all over everyone's hard work. About Ciarans people skills I agree they are none to slim, but the points he makes are valid and since this is an open project he has every right to voice his opinion. -- Naga -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
2008. 01. 13, vasárnap keltezéssel 17.46-kor Ken Gypen ezt írta: I agree that Gentoo shouldn't become an Ubuntu like distro, but the minimal install cd is, at least for me, a requirement. ... Regards, Ken After reading lot of posts regarding install cd, I decided, I will create livecd for install purposes, with: - handbook - fresh stage3 for i686 - portage snapshot I will try to keep it up-to-date. Anyway, I'm not a dev member, just a user with motivation to do this. Are anybody interesting in this kind of release? Cheers, István -- eGroupWare, gLiveCD, gentoo és barátai http://www.osbusiness.hu „A humor a méltóság támasza, fölényünket hirdeti mindazzal szemben, amit a sors ránk mér.” (Romain Gary) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Jan 13, 2008 7:03 PM, Pongracz Istvan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008. 01. 13, vasárnap keltezéssel 17.46-kor Ken Gypen ezt írta: I agree that Gentoo shouldn't become an Ubuntu like distro, but the minimal install cd is, at least for me, a requirement. ... Regards, Ken After reading lot of posts regarding install cd, I decided, I will create livecd for install purposes, with: - handbook - fresh stage3 for i686 - portage snapshot I will try to keep it up-to-date. Anyway, I'm not a dev member, just a user with motivation to do this. Are anybody interesting in this kind of release? Cheers, István I can't help you immediately, but be sure I am going to help you if you'll still need it in a few months. For me, the key is to keep the handbook up-to-date. IMHO, it is a must. Having a 2. Choosing the Right Installation Medium section not able to provide good information for new users is really painful. Gentoo is known as one of the best documented distro and I am sure that it is a crucial point to mind. Gal'
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
2008. 01. 13, vasárnap keltezéssel 19.22-kor Galevsky ezt írta:
I can't help you immediately, but be sure I am going to help you if
you'll still need it in a few months. For me, the key is to keep the
handbook up-to-date. IMHO, it is a must. Having a 2. Choosing the
Right Installation Medium section not able to provide good
information for new users is really painful. Gentoo is known as one
of the best documented distro and I am sure that it is a crucial
point to mind.
Gal'
#0;#0;?zb z{hx%
Thank you for your help.
I will prepare a project page on my website and I try to create the
first release in some weeks. Probably less, than one, depends on my free
time.
I will send a mail to this list to inform you about the progress :)
Regards,
István
--
eGroupWare, gLiveCD, gentoo és barátai
http://www.osbusiness.hu
„A humor a méltóság támasza, fölényünket hirdeti
mindazzal szemben, amit a sors ránk mér.”
(Romain Gary)
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Create mutli-file .zip archives from the command line?
On Sun, 2008-01-13 at 16:04 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Sonntag, 13. Januar 2008 schrieb Stroller: I know I could do this by using RAR - or some other untility - instead, but that would require me to install additional software on the PC, which I'd rather not do. You could use 7-Zip e.g. from portableapps.com So you don't need to install it. Besides, I'm surprised to find that app-arch/zip - nor any other utility I can immediately find in Portage - doesn't seem to handle this. Well, there is zipsplit which belongs to app-arch/zip. But I never used it. Maybe it does the trick for you. Regards, Jens 7zip / p7zip can also create splitted zip-archives which you can unzip with any normal zip. Or you could create self extracting versions. 7z can create these, too (although I never tried). signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
On Sunday 13 January 2008, Dirk Heinrichs wrote: And while where at it: Get those stage1 installs back into the Handbook. I did a stage3 install 2 weeks ago and it was a nightmare. One needs to recompile nearly everything afterwards, so stage3 doesn't make any difference. You can use Daniel Robbins' stage3s: http://blog.funtoo.org/2007/12/i-building-gentoo-stages.html (note: I have not used them yet, so I don't know what their compatibility/quality/whatever level is. Anyway, with such a releaser, I'd expect them to work quite well, and I'll test them with my next Gentoo install). -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Jan 13, 2008 10:03 AM, Pongracz Istvan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008. 01. 13, vasárnap keltezéssel 17.46-kor Ken Gypen ezt írta: I agree that Gentoo shouldn't become an Ubuntu like distro, but the minimal install cd is, at least for me, a requirement. ... Regards, Ken After reading lot of posts regarding install cd, I decided, I will create livecd for install purposes, with: - handbook - fresh stage3 for i686 - portage snapshot I will try to keep it up-to-date. Anyway, I'm not a dev member, just a user with motivation to do this. Are anybody interesting in this kind of release? Cheers, István Hi, As a stupid user type, but one who does care about Gentoo and would like Gentoo to be strong and healthy, I'd certainly be interested in a very minimal install CD. I think it's good marketing that someone who wishes to use Gentoo can download something that writes Gentoo on his screen while he does the installation. All I personally want out of an install CD is something that: 1) Boots new hardware well enough to do the install. The current LiveCD doesn't boot a P5E motherboard so I couldn't do the install on that machine using it. 2) Has networking turned on for whatever my NIC is and makes it easy to start sshd. At that point I'll sit on another machine and copy/paste install commands to do a Stage 3 install. I wouldn't use a tarball on this CD. I'd go to the net to get the latest and greatest. It just needs a good kernel and networking support. After that it's up to me. This install CD, should you do it and I hope you do, should be focused at supporting new motherboards as soon as possible to ensure I can always install Gentoo on the newest machines. As far as I'm concerned, and this is just me the dumb user type, it doesn't need X, frame buffers, sound or *anything* fancy. Just boot to a text console and let me do my work. That would be perfect. Thanks for listening. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Create mutli-file .zip archives from the command line?
On Sun, 2008-01-13 at 16:13 +0100, Jesús Guerrero wrote: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:59:04 +0100 Renat Golubchyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:21:30 + Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I thought to do was to break the .iso into a multi-part .zip archive, transfer the separate files over to the Windows PC and then unzip them back into the original big file using Explorer's built-in The problem is that fat32 can't handle files that are larger than 4gb-1byte. So, will still be unable to unzip or unrar that iso image. [...] You have many other alternatives: use ntfs or even ext3/2. I know that there are drivers to use these filesystems on windows, I don't know how good or bad they are, though. :) -- Ext2 is supposed to be on the same level with fat32 in terms of speed and stability. It doesn't care much about own and mod but that's it. AFAIK there is no ext3 driver,yet. But you can still mount these as ext2. Reiserfs is readonly. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
[gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
· Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:53:48 +0100, Michael Schmarck wrote: You also need the handbook, a portage snapshot and a stage tarball. How many live CDs provide these? None. But the portage snapshot is best fetched from the web anyway, as far as I'm concerned. Same with the handbook, as it may contain (theoritcal) up-to-the minute corrections. So, the portage snapshot and handbook don't have to on the Live CD. No, but it's a lot easier if they are when doing a networkless install. This cannot be done, as the install CD has to be fetched over network anyway. At that time, the portage snapshot and handbook can be downloaded as well. Michael Schmarck -- Mal: Kaylee's been missing you something fierce. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:20:04 +0100, Michael Schmarck wrote: This cannot be done, as the install CD has to be fetched over network anyway. At that time, the portage snapshot and handbook can be downloaded as well. I've already covered that in a previous reply to you. -- Neil Bothwick Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:15:38 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: 1) Boots new hardware well enough to do the install. The current LiveCD doesn't boot a P5E motherboard so I couldn't do the install on that machine using it. It booted on mine, I installed from a 2007.0 install disc. 2) Has networking turned on for whatever my NIC is and makes it easy to start sshd. But it didn't do networking, so /i did a networkless install and updated the kernel to a later one that did support my NIC. -- Neil Bothwick Windows '96 artificial intelligence: Unable to FORMAT A: Having a go at C: signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Jan 13, 2008 8:03 PM, Pongracz Istvan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will prepare a project page on my website and I try to create the first release in some weeks. Probably less, than one, depends on my free time. I will send a mail to this list to inform you about the progress :) Sounds good :) But as a very-soon action to undertake, I think that the official handbook on gentoo.org should be modified as follow: -add an important note on top of step 2 saying that the current minimal/live CDs of Gentoo are outdated and people requiring lastest kernel should use another liveCD (GRML/knoppix or others) then download the stage3 tarball to keep on the installation. Gal' -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
· Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:00:20 +0100, Michael Schmarck wrote: It is a lot more comfortable for the first-time installer. Why's that? Because a first-time installer benefits from the confidence given by using an official install disc. I don't understand that. What confidence? To install Gentoo, you need a way to partition your storage, create filesystems and chroot. That can easily be done by any live CD. It also allows you to install without a network connection if you have a single CD containing the handbook, tools, portage snapshot and stage files. How do you get that stuff (the Install CD)? By downloading? Why can't you download the handbook, snapshot and stage tar ball as well at that time? And what tools are you talking about? fdisk? chroot? Everything needed can be obtained by downloading one ISO image and burning it to CD. Well. There's no need for extra trips back the the netted computer to fetch things you discover you need after reading the handbook, or partway through the install. The same argument can be held against the install CD as well. I disagree. Maybe it's a bonus if it's offered, but then it always has to be up-to-date. And that, obviously, cannot be done right now. So I'd rather say, that it would be better, if there were no install CD at all. But it can be done. It's not worth the effort, though, as far as I'm concerned. Michael Schmarck -- But what we need to know is, do people want nasally-insertable computers? -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:24:52 +0100, Michael Schmarck wrote: Because a first-time installer benefits from the confidence given by using an official install disc. I don't understand that. What confidence? To install Gentoo, you need a way to partition your storage, create filesystems and chroot. That can easily be done by any live CD. Assuming you know what you are doing. If you've ever tried to help a number of less confident users through it, you'd know what I mean. While I don't disagree that a Gentoo live CD is absolutely necessary, you seem to be taking the argument further, saying that Gentoo should not have its own live CD. Why? -- Neil Bothwick Is it a bigger crime to rob a bank or to open one? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] DNAT not working
Hi, I have a box running vmware server where I need some DNAT rules to get traffic from a vm to where it belongs. Inserting the rule iptables -t nat -I PREROUTING -s ... -d ... -p tcp --dport ... -j DNAT --to-destination destaddr gives me: iptables: No chain/target/match by that name Also I had to manually modprobe iptable_nat since iptables -L didn't initialize everything. I rebuilt iptables to match the current kernel (2.6.23-gentoo-r3) no luck. Strace on the command showed me setsockopt(3, SOL_IP, 0x40 /* IP_??? */, nat\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0..., 920) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) Anybody got an idea what I am doing from? Regards, Konstantin -- Dipl-Inf. Konstantin Agouros aka Elwood Blues. Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Otkerstr. 28, 81547 Muenchen, Germany. Tel +49 89 69370185 Captain, this ship will not survive the forming of the cosmos. B'Elana Torres -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Jan 13, 2008 11:26 AM, Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:15:38 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: 1) Boots new hardware well enough to do the install. The current LiveCD doesn't boot a P5E motherboard so I couldn't do the install on that machine using it. It booted on mine, I installed from a 2007.0 install disc. I stand partially corrected. It does boot AND see the disk drives *if* I make changes in BIOS to use AHCI instead of IDE emulation. Since BIOS was not set that way by ASUS as default the CD does boot but doesn't see the drives and cannot do the install. Presumably some sort of driver could have been enabled on the CD that would not have required this change to BIOS and IMO been more user install friendly. 2) Has networking turned on for whatever my NIC is and makes it easy to start sshd. But it didn't do networking, so /i did a networkless install and updated the kernel to a later one that did support my NIC. Precisely my point about the kernel and tarball on the CD. The most user friendly, which then IMO shines the most favorable light on Gentoo and it's install, is to have a very timely update to the install CD that has every driver possible on it, be they stable or testing, so that the machine can get to the network without having to get drivers there on some other CD, etc. If that means that the install CD kernel is updated weekly or even daily then so much the better IMO for the install CD only. I think you and I are really in violent agreement here Neil. It can be done, and the easier it is done the better it makes Gentoo look. Thanks for pointing out the mistake in my comment. Cheer, Mark -- Neil Bothwick Windows '96 artificial intelligence: Unable to FORMAT A: Having a go at C: -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Neil Bothwick wrote: Assuming you know what you are doing. If you've ever tried to help a number of less confident users through it, you'd know what I mean. While I don't disagree that a Gentoo live CD is absolutely necessary, you seem to be taking the argument further, saying that Gentoo should not have its own live CD. Why? Indeed, while as I've posted earlier in the list that users should free their mind, and not be too dependent on the Gentoo's LiveCD, I do see the value in users trying to contribute to the project by making a LiveCD, it's fairly beneficial to Gentoo: * Devs can still focus on the tree, on portage itself and/or other aspects of gentoo * This user developed CD will indeed open up more possibilities and give others more choice, without affecting the Gentoo magic touch if handled correctly. There are a few drawbacks and concerns, although it's much too early for some of them to become real concerns * QA. It's quite typical that if this CD fails in some rare cases, users will blame Gentoo * Automated installer or not, if there's this installer, how to balance between customization and freedom, I'm sure we all remember the auto partition option of the red hat CDs, and the headache it caused :D * Release cycle? * How much should be included on the CD? if we were to cater networkingless installation, a CD will only be enough for a minimal system. The lists above are by no means complete, but hopefully this thread sparks some ideas and interesting discussions in the list, which I, for one, have missed :) - -- Joe - -- A computer scientist is someone who, when told go to hell, considers the go to harmful rather than the destination. GnuPG Key: 0xB14661D9 GnuPG FP: DE08 57AE A1AD 620C 02AA CCDD 611B 63AC B146 61D9 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHinObYRtjrLFGYdkRAomAAJwMrBTH5IQ08UoY309N1VIJ8IyH0gCg6UpD sQ1d0Gc1Eq0ROGqSDYMypHI= =nLmA -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
Am Sonntag, 13. Januar 2008 schrieb Alan McKinnon: IIRC, they were removed because being in the official handbook, people used them. Then caused endless traffic on endless forums and lists when they did it wrong (mostly because they didn't know enough yet about the process and followed bad ricing advice). Of course, if one does a stage1 install she should either follow the handbock word by word or know what she's doing. The stage 1 and 2 tarballs are still available I know. Just wanted to know what this stage3 thing is all about. Next time I will use stage1 again :-) Bye... Dirk signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
Am Sonntag, 13. Januar 2008 schrieb Neil Bothwick: Except that you can use the system while it is recompiling. I can also use the system while doing a stage1 install. Depends on the capabilities of the install CD you use. Bye... Dirk signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
Am Sonntag, 13. Januar 2008 schrieb Etaoin Shrdlu: You can use Daniel Robbins' stage3s: Why should I? They're likely also built with different use flags than the ones I use. Thus I will end up recompiling anyway. Updating the compiler recompiled a couple dozen packages before. With a stage1 install I have the compiler, binutils and libc versions of my choice right from the beginning and don't need to think about which packages have been compiled with an old (or just different) compiler, possibly causing trouble later. Bye... Dirk signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 21:46:18 +0100, Dirk Heinrichs wrote: Except that you can use the system while it is recompiling. I can also use the system while doing a stage1 install. Depends on the capabilities of the install CD you use. In that case, you're using the live CD system, not the installed system. It can make a difference. -- Neil Bothwick And what else floats.? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Jan 13, 2008 8:24 PM, Michael Schmarck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I'd rather say, that it would be better, if there were no install CD at all. But it can be done. It's not worth the effort, though, as far as I'm concerned. Since your are not concerned about releasing them, you should find no issue to let others do it. It is the community spirit, when folks add a new way to do something, just enlarging the panel of possibilities without negative impact on existing solutions, even if it doesn't suit your own needs, since you still have the possibility to setup your system by the older way, there is no reason to prevent motivated people from implementing their alternative solution. For PXE, GRML as well as gentoo minimal cd installations, what is mostly important is freedom to choose :) Gal' -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Create mutli-file .zip archives from the command line?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:45:53 +0100 Jesús Guerrero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know nothing about samba+big files, I did never use it with big files, but I haven't hear of such a problem before. As far as I know, Samba doesn't have problems with big files. I've burned large (4GB) DVD images on an XP box with not enough space on it requiring me to store the .iso on my Linux box connected over Samba. That is, the data was streamed over the network directly to the DVD drive. Cheers, Renat -- Probleme kann man niemals mit derselben Denkweise loesen, durch die sie entstanden sind. (Einstein) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] TTF Fonts
On Jan 13, 2008 11:33 AM, Jesús Guerrero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:00:57 -0400 Naiani Rosa de Barros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, the location fonts:/// does not exist on Xfce, so the installation has to be manual. I ended up finding this other article on Gentoo-Wiki, http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_XFS_and_Custom_Fonts , which works well. The only thing I don't like is having to run ttmkfdir fonts.scale, mkfontdir, /etc/init.d/xfs restart everytime I want to add a new font. But I guess it's a small price to pay. Thank you guys! You usually don't need to. Kde should pick the fonts just the same moment you install them. Other X programs need a re-building of the font cache. That is done when X is restarted, but you can also do it manually on a term with something like this: xset fp rehash That will re-read all the font dirs (the default gentoo configuration include system dirs and also local dirs, like ~/.fonts/). If you want to add a font path, you need to issue this other command before the one above: xset +fp /new/path of xset fp+ /new/path To prepend or append a new path, then rehash it as shown above. The xfs solution is something that is mostly deprecated, and it is a resource waste and a completely useless thing on a desktop machine. I don't recommend the xfs stuff at all. -- Jesús Guerrero [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list Thanks for the tip, I didn't know xfs was deprecated. I used this solution because it was the only one I could find. Xfce doesn't have a font utility, so I need to do it manually. I'll try this other way and see what I can get. Naiani -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: that is one of the most stupid things I ever read on this list. So users should never be part of discussions? Their needs? Their opinions? Also, drobbins continued his attacks even after explained SEVERAL times that the stuff ciaranm was doing was a) wanted and b) helpfull and c) supervised by devs. But he couldn't shut up OR accept that things changed since he left. Somebody who can not deal with changes, is somebody certainly unfit for leadership. Yes, he started gentoo (my first gentoo was 1.0). And compared to the chaotic times, gentoo is a heaven of stability today. Back under drobbins leadership it was ok, that the tree was broken or some update screwed your system. Happened all the time - nobody complained (too loudly). And some day he left. Things changed. Gentoo is much more stable today. There is no breakage of the week. No large scale surprising 'nothing works anymore'. A lot of things were done - without him. And he comes back and thinks that he can do better? Please - he already has shown that he can't. He has shown that he will leave projects after a short while (stampede, freebsd, enoch, gentoo, Microsoft). He has never shown that he can pull through with a project. With all due respect, the current leadership has not shown they can do any better either. The foundation no longer exists legally. Something that important ever happen when he was here? I do agree that users should have say and be able to express their opinions. If the devs had better social skills, not all but just a few, then maybe some users would express that more. It's just like anything else, only a few makes the rest look bad. As to things breaking in portage, yea, it did happen. Gentoo was pretty new back then and it was expected. I was new back then and I caused some breakage of my own but it was expected to. Code wise, Gentoo has come a VERY VERY LONG ways. It is not just better but hugely better. That doesn't mean that the same would not have happened if he stayed with Gentoo tho. Gentoo was a baby then and like all of us it stumbled until it learned how to walk. Code wise, right now it can run a marathon and win in my opinion. The developers have done their job pretty well but with little social skills I'm afraid. Again, just a few of them tho. Oh, I been here since 1.4 myself. I have been subscribed to -dev, -user and other mailing lists for a long time. I also read the forums tho I don't post as much as I used to. There may be things I don't know but I got a good gut feeling that Gentoo needs better leadership than it currently has. My $0.02 worth. Dale :-) :-) :-) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Create mutli-file .zip archives from the command line?
On 13 Jan 2008, at 16:45, Jesús Guerrero wrote: ... The problem is that fat32 can't handle files that are larger than 4gb-1byte. So, will still be unable to unzip or unrar that iso image. I believe you're mistaken in the direct cause of my problem. I'm using NTFS on the Windows XP machine. ... Well, that is new info. If you are using ntfs then the issue is not the one I suspected. Well, it didn't occur to mention NTFS vs FAT32 in my original post because it didn't occur to me that anyone might use FAT32 these days (except for portable devices, of course). ... I'd blame the wireless connection, but if the problem is only with that file, then that should not the be proble either. At the time of posting this morning I had no way to say whether or not I could reproduce the problem - this Windows PC gets switched on perhaps once every 3 months, and the original file took so long copying (over two hours yesterday) that I left it running overnight. I started another copy going this morning before I made my original post on this subject, and when I come back to the machine this evening it seems to have finished successfully - that is to say the md5sum matches up. So I apologise to the list for wasting it's time, but having said that I know I'm going to want to split recombine files cross- platform again sometime in the future, so I will remember this thread for reference. I won't go through making on line posts saying thanks! great idea! in reply to everyone who posted, but I'd like to thank everyone who has replied to my question. (For the record Renat Golubchyk's suggestion of split/copy was top of my list until I read Florian Philipp's reply, which is obviously pretty much exactly what I had in mind in the first place (and therefore requiring no additional thinking, always a priority); I am thankful to Jens for pointing me at portableapps.com) Stroller. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] DNAT not working
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:01:04 + (UTC) Konstantinos Agouros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I have a box running vmware server where I need some DNAT rules to get traffic from a vm to where it belongs. Inserting the rule iptables -t nat -I PREROUTING -s ... -d ... -p tcp --dport ... -j DNAT --to-destination destaddr gives me: iptables: No chain/target/match by that name Also I had to manually modprobe iptable_nat since iptables -L didn't initialize everything. I rebuilt iptables to match the current kernel (2.6.23-gentoo-r3) no luck. Strace on the command showed me setsockopt(3, SOL_IP, 0x40 /* IP_??? */, nat\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0..., 920) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) Anybody got an idea what I am doing from? Regards, Konstantin I believe you've forgotten to build support for NAT in your kernel: │ Symbol: IP_NF_IPTABLES [=m] │ Prompt: IP tables support (required for filtering/masq/NAT) │ Defined at net/ipv4/netfilter/Kconfig:45 │ Depends on: NET INET NETFILTER │ Location: │ - Networking │ - Networking support (NET [=y]) │ - Networking options │ - Network packet filtering framework (Netfilter) (NETFILTER [=y]) │ - IP: Netfilter Configuration │ Selects: NETFILTER_XTABLES -- Best regards, Daniel -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
Galevsky ha scritto: On Jan 13, 2008 8:24 PM, Michael Schmarck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I'd rather say, that it would be better, if there were no install CD at all. But it can be done. It's not worth the effort, though, as far as I'm concerned. Since your are not concerned about releasing them, you should find no issue to let others do it. It is the community spirit, when folks add a new way to do something, just enlarging the panel of possibilities without negative impact on existing solutions, even if it doesn't suit your own needs, since you still have the possibility to setup your system by the older way, there is no reason to prevent motivated people from implementing their alternative solution. Of course there is no reason to prevent people to implement new solutions. New solutions are always welcome: this is what open source is for. :) However, I personally think it's a waste of time, and it could possibly put unnecessary blame on Gentoo. And you are the living proof of it. Let me explain. You began complaining because the Gentoo live cd *exists*, but it is out of date and didn't support your hardware. It's a reasonable complain in the assumption you need the Gentoo cd (and you can't do with anything else): you of course want your hardware to be supported by the medium installation. Now, imagine the official Gentoo live cd *never existed*. You probably just would have picked up some cd you knew supported your system (say, latest Ubuntu) and installed using that. No complaining, no discussions, everyone happy. See? Having the Gentoo live cd *was wrong from the beginning*. It put another fairly complex piece of software to support on developer shoulders, offered vanishingly little benefit, and when it fails it immediately puts blame on Gentoo: hey this cd doesn't support my hardware, wtf that can offset potential users. The reason other distro have complex live cds for installing is that they *need that*. Gentoo does not need this additional complexity. Nevertheless a live cd there was, but as you experienced, it's more the trouble it causes than that it solves. And not having a live cd on which Gentoo is obliged to depend is not a bug: sir, it's a feature! The live cd didn't support my Macbook Pro networking. Well, fine: Kubuntu did. I had a Kubuntu 7.10 cd around, booted from that, no hassle at all. Other distros have to support their own live cd, and if it fails, installation is impossible. With Gentoo, we have the full monty of live cds to choose within. It's like a distro with infinite installers. You are free to create a live cd for Gentoo install, but you're doing nothing new nor particularly useful. You'll just add one to the list. Why? m. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
Pongracz Istvan ha scritto: 2008. 01. 13, vasárnap keltezéssel 17.46-kor Ken Gypen ezt írta: I agree that Gentoo shouldn't become an Ubuntu like distro, but the minimal install cd is, at least for me, a requirement. ... Regards, Ken After reading lot of posts regarding install cd, I decided, I will create livecd for install purposes, with: - handbook - fresh stage3 for i686 - portage snapshot I will try to keep it up-to-date. Anyway, I'm not a dev member, just a user with motivation to do this. Are anybody interesting in this kind of release? If I can give you an advice: don't create a new livecd from scratch. Take an Ubuntu, Knoppix or similar live cd, just add these three files in a /gentoo directory, and re-release it xerox, with just the three files added and a Gentoo logo somewhere. This is what open source is for: stand on the shoulders of giants. Don't reinvent the wheel. Ubuntu and Knoppix are extremly widely used and well tested live cds, designed to support an impressive range of hardware. You don't want to enter the realm of unknown or scratching your head thinking about what obsolete ISA card you want to support. Use ready made live cds. They're shiny gifts of the OSS community, just like Gentoo is. m. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] TTF Fonts
Jesús Guerrero ha scritto: On a previous level of this thread I tell how to install fonts for just the current user: you put them into ~/.fonts/ What konqueror does is the same thing, but hidding the concrete details to the user (that is what kio-slaves are all about: abstraction, which can be good or bad, as you can see now). Excellent, thank you. I like abstraction, but I also like to know what's behind. Now I can still use my Konqueror comfortably, but aware. Thanks. m. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] x11-drm fails to emerge
On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 20:28 +, Mick wrote: Can anyone perhaps suggest a fix to allow me to emerge did you look in bugzilla? http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165553 what -sources are you using? http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=156518 HTH! -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Of course you have a purpose -- to find a purpose. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon at gmail.com writes: It could just be managerial ineptitude though, combined with emotional immaturity of certain persons (if Alan's previous critique re.treating persons as machines holds true). Odds are that this is the real explanation. Gentoo management is full of people who are good devs but simply do not know how to run a group. To see this, just read over minutes of meeting etc held on IRC. There's little evidence of a meeting being chaired by someone who keeps things on track and on agenda, and meetings usually devolve into discussions of technical matters. It's entirely reasonable to assume that these same people will just ignore things outside their expertise that they don't understand and hope the problem will go away if they ignore it. Just as the solution to having a maintainer of a project that can't code is to replace him with someone who can, the solution to gentoo's current woes seems to be to appoint bodies to management who do know how to do it and have a track record of doing it. OK, let assume you are correct, and the majority of users support these consensus beliefs. How do we go about doing this (fixing gentoo with some documents that define the organization and lines of authority? I know how to do it mechanically and legally but how to we get devs to agree with being managed by anyone? After all, there are no paychecks here. My alluding to the tribal system is because technical folks will follow a technically strong leader. Are enough of those tribal (elites) willing to be managed? If so, surely they will want quite a lot of say in how a new structure to manage Gentoo is structured and organized. The fact they are discussing this seems like the majority of devs will make a decision and let us know? Surely they will want a person that is mature and calm, yet very saavy with technology and Gentoo. We can put together a very good guidance document, borrowing from other projects and non profits, and add some interesting language, but if the majority, or at least a handful of tribal leader do not agree, we are dead, or starting our own fork. It's more likely the user community will rally behind a group of devs, that decide to fork, or the bickering will just continue until everyone leaves? I have not read any of their posts (the devs) nor any of the infighting. If they want help, they have to reach out. If they are determined to intellectually bludgeon one another, all we can do is prepare our ideas, here in this forum into a document, and humbly submit it to of those tribal leaders that might be receptive? Maybe someone that reads this solicit from the devs a list of grievances and we can begin drafting documents that the devs can comment on and we continue the process until 'the beast is soothed' ? Does anyone think they can get cooler heads among the devs to participate in a process like this, or something similar? I do not know any of the devs enough to know who to approach. ??? James -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Forums Crashed
On Sat, 2008-01-12 at 23:50 -0200, Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Richard Cox wrote: | Yeah, still have the problem. Very strange. This is because Gentoo is now on Slashdot frntpage: http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/08/01/12/0152208.shtml So, I recon we were slashdotted... Haha, that's funny, in a way. But sad when I think why. Gentoo used to make Slashdot headlines for good reasons... I've been subscribed to the -dev list for a little while, and it's not always pretty. -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au BOFH Excuse #48: bad ether in the cables -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 11:22 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Friday 11 January 2008, Shaochun Wang wrote: On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 09:58:16AM +0100, Pongracz Istvan wrote: 2008. 01. 11, p茅ntek keltez茅ssel 09.37-kor Daniel Pielmeier ezt 铆rta: joke Or they will change to GYN (Gentoo Yearly Newsletter) :) /joke Maybe you joke will become the truth. Currently, Gentoo has not updated its installation CD for a long time! Why do you think gentoo *needs* to update it's install CD? The official release is an indication of the life of a distribution or package. Look at one of Keith Packard's reasons for leaving Xfree86 (slow release cycle), or Gnome's recent push to speed their release cycle. I know that I can still use the latest install CD, and do an update. However, the install CD is only one indication of Gentoo's problems. The out of date website, the newsletter releases, the sad responses to the how are we doing question on gentoo-dev... Anyway I digress... -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Real computer scientists like having a computer on their desk, else how could they read their mail? -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Sun, 2008-01-13 at 11:31 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sunday 13 January 2008, Mark Kirkwood wrote: James wrote: In my mind I'm an accomplished person. In her mind I'm just another stupid EE, Hey James - Interesting post - this eludes me tho, what is an EE? Electronic Engineer or Electrical Eng. Similar, but different. -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au There are probably better ways to do that, but it would make the parser more complex. I do, occasionally, struggle feebly against complexity... :-) -- Larry Wall in [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] gnupg update problem
Today, I executed the following command to update my system emerge -auDN world What happened is that gnupg seemed to be downgraded to 1.4.7-r1 version. I know gnupg-2.0.7 is stable in the current portage, so I am curious about this downgrade of gnupg. After searching this thread, inspired by the post by Neil Bothwick(Dec 16, 2007), I know that I can use the option --tree to check the dependency. emerge -puDN --tree world The above command reported: 1.) squirrelmail-2.4.10a-r2 requires gnupg-1.4.7-r1 2.) gpgme and so on require gnupg-2.0.7 Neil Bothwick said we could install these two versions of gnupg simultaneously, but in the immediate following post, Nago Toro said No. So I checked the ebuild of gnupg, then I agree with Nago Toro. Searching the gentoo forum( forums.gnetoo.org), I found the following bugzilla post is usefull. http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=202406 According to this bug report, I know that squirrelmail-1.4.10a-r2 can't work with gnupg version 2. So the ebuild maintainer of squirrelmail set version 1 as a dependency. Analyzing the ebuild of squirrelmail-1.4.10a-r2, I know that the dependency is only requirred by USE flag crypt. So I diable this flag in my local portage config file /etc/portage/package.use. After doing this, I can update my system without getting gnupg back to version 1 now. As a matter of fact, it's impossible to update without doing this change. Even you can afford downgrading gnupg, the other package e.g. gpgme, still requirre you install version 2 of gnupg. It's unresolved unless you decides discarding one! Does anyone has better solution? -- Shaochun Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?
Tried to do an update today. Gnumeric has a new dependancy, namely
goffice. Trying to build goffice fails with the following message...
* Messages for package x11-libs/goffice-0.6.1:
* Please rebuild x11-libs/cairo with svg support enabled
* echo x11-libs/cairo svg /etc/portage/package.use
* emerge -1 x11-libs/cairo
* Please rebuild dev-libs/libpcre with unicode support enabled
* echo dev-libs/libpcre unicode /etc/portage/package.use
* emerge -1 dev-libs/libpcre
*
* ERROR: x11-libs/goffice-0.6.1 failed.
* Call stack:
* ebuild.sh, line 1717: Called dyn_setup
* ebuild.sh, line 768: Called qa_call 'pkg_setup'
* ebuild.sh, line 44: Called pkg_setup
* goffice-0.6.1.ebuild, line 64: Called die
* The specific snippet of code:
* [ -n ${diemessage} ] die ${diemessage}
* The die message:
* No SVG support found in cairo. No unicode support found in libpcre.
*
* If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if
relevant.
* A complete build log is located at
'/var/log/portage/x11-libs:goffice-0.6.1:20080113-232058.log'.
SVG is an OpenSource replacement for Schlockwave-Trash, to be used for
creating singing/dancing webpages. Unicode is great if you're building
a desktop for use in the library room of the United Nations. There is
no real need for it on a single-language desktop machine. Can someone
explain the so-called logic behind these mandatory dependancies *IN A
SPREADSHEET*? Is there a way to to modify the ebuild to remove the
dependancies without blowing up the compile?
One reason that linux has finally started to come into its own is that
it can fit onto under-specced machines like the OLPC and Asus EEE, on
which XP has trouble fitting, and Vista is totally fuggedaboutit.
That advantage risks being ruined if we follow the Windows Disease and
insist on unnecessarily bloating basic apps.
--
Walter Dnes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X Window user... I'm an ex-Windows-user
--
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