Re: [gentoo-user] want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On 04/08/2015 20:30, Felix Miata wrote: Grant Edwards composed on 2015-08-04 17:20 (UTC): Felix Miata wrote: That's right, May 2011, my first and only Gentoo installation, 32 bit on an old Athlon, which means no sse2, and kernel 2.6.37. It coexists in multiboot on one HD with 12 installations of Fedora and openSUSE. I'd like to upgrade it rather than installing fresh, Can we ask why? Because, assuming it's feasible, I can? :-) There's two ways to approach this. 1. The just get it done approach - for this you re-install 2. The figure out how it works and learn something approach. For this you upgrade. Which one you desire is of course up to you. 1-I just find upgrade processes more enjoyable than inital installations and their follow-up tedium getting from defaults back to the way I like things to work. 2-From one installation to the next, I typically forget installation choices that in hindsight I would not have made. if it's doable. It probably is (for some degnerate value of doable). My gut feeling is that a fresh install is going to be a _lot_ easier For some degenerate value of easier. :-) Voice of hard-won experience speaking here: There's an old sysadmin saw about sendmail: 1. You cannot be a /real/ sysadmin till you have written main.cf by hand at least once 2. You are out of your goddamn mind if you do it twice So, you have installed Gentoo once and never touched it again. By all means, upgrade it. Personally, I would rather you had some more experience with the whole regular update process in normal circumstances (emerge world, revdep-rebuild, deal with blockers), but if you are smart and patient it can be done and faster. A fresh install will take a couple hours. An upgrade will take somewhere between a couple days and a couple weeks. Seriously, more than a day? Bwahahahaha! You are too funny! THREE WEEKS is not uncommon for this. I am not joking. Remember, I have done it, and so have many others here. It was fun the first time, now it is just a major PITA Now that I've seen several thread responses subsequent to this one, I'm leaning towared just doing a fresh installation, but I'm curious about what would happen by trying, and how long it really would take. I haven't read all the other replies, (too lazy), so I'll just stick my thoughts out there. This upgrade is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike a large binary distro upgrade (say RHEL 4 to 6). The reason is that you have to update the toolchain, and that changes /everything/. Fedora and friends never use an ancient toolchain to build a new distro. The latest version is always already built for you by the latest toolchain. You are on Gentoo, you need to use an ancient compiler to build the latest compiler. This might even work! But most likely, what you are going to encounter is that it fails somehow. So you will do it in stages and employ much black magic (which will probably be meaningless to you) to get it done. And then you will repeat the whole thing to deal with udev and friends. And then for OpenRC. And then the whole split /usr thing Bash will cause much pain. Oh, I almost forgot, there was that bash completion mess too. Starting to get the idea? What you will /not/ experience, is that a bunch of new files will replace old files and Woot! Success! This is important: On Gentoo, you build the system in-situ. And that changes everything. If you still want to learn how to do it, a loner, easier, and more likely approach is going to be this: Grab a bunch of portage snapshots from somewhere spaced 6-12 months apart for the last 4 years. Unpack the oldest over your existing portage. Emerge world, and deal with the problems. Rinse, repeat till you are up to date. It's a lot of work and for teaching purposes it is invaluable. For practical purposes it is pointless :-) The benefit to doing it is stages is that many smaller upgrades are each manageable and can be done. A 4 year jump probably can't be. Skipping or after attemping upgrade, I'd chroot from an existing, probably openSUSE rather than Fedora, because I have Tumbleweed all the way back to 11.2 to choose from. Would there be any particular advantage to picking a particular one to use, with/without systemd, or a kernel version close, or newer, or older, than that which will be emerged? I like that eselect list currently offers a kde sans systemd sans plasma option. Ultimately what I'd like to do is get Gentoo on at least one of my much faster systems, but only after enough experience with it to have a respectable shot at putting Trinity on it instead of any of the more popular DEs. This machine is a guinea pig for familiarization purposes. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On 05/08/2015 05:28, Felix Miata wrote: If we (gentoo) had a simple installation semantic, this sort of problem would most likely disappear; so the wider community could delve into other technical support issues.. YMMV. I get the feeling Gentoo isn't a right choice for people who need a simple installation semantic. Bingo. People keep trying to dumb Gentoo down and make it somehow automagic. These people uniformly do not understand the entire Gentoo landscape. Here's what binary distros do: A bunch of dudes decide how the thing will be built. They make choices. A bunch of maintainers decide how their package will be built and what it will do. They make choices. Both groups give their choices to you. If you do not like their choices, use a different distro. By making choices and mostly casting them in stone, these maintainers have swapped the ability to have anything you want and replace it with ease of use (or lack of having to think about detail). Here's how Gentoo works: All of the above, you do yourself. You assume the entire responsibility that distro devs take, and you take it all upon yourself, the whole damn lot. Gentoo devs do make choices, but this process is not in any way comparable to what binary distros do. In Gentoo, a dev's choice is a reasonable default, you always have the option to do it your way (and keep all the tiny pieces when it shatters) It should be more obvious now why simple installation semantic is a total oxymoron in a Gentoo setting. It is a) anything but simple and b) your vast array of choices (limited only by what upstream sources can be configured to do) blow any idea of a consistent framework out of the water. The best you will do with a Gentoo install semantic is satisfy a clearly defined sub-set of Gentoo users. Put another way and using a car analogy: Fedora gives you an off the floor model from a dealer, complete with lots of options like auto/manual or aircon or optional electric mirrors. Gentoo is a kit car, with the option of not even having a body mould if you don't want one. Want to design and make it all yourself? Yeah you can do that. Want to rather make a beach buggy that someone else did the work on, re-use their work so you can concentrate only on the paint detail? Yeah, that is supported to. Every time I hear the words simple or just in a Gentoo context, I have to suppress a laugh :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] want to upgrade 50 month old installation
Am Tue, 04 Aug 2015 23:13:20 -0400 schrieb Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net: Neil Bothwick composed on 2015-08-04 21:36 (UTC+0100): On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 15:32:51 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: I've yet to figure out how to get a list of all installed packages akin to 'rpm -qa | sort', so I really don't know what my starting configuration is. qlist -ICv -bash: qlist: command not found emerge qlist fails (with unable to parse profile...unsupported EAPI '5') It is part of app-portage/portage-utils. HTH -- Marc Joliet -- People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't - Bjarne Stroustrup pgpA33aCJchQe.pgp Description: Digitale Signatur von OpenPGP
Re: [gentoo-user] want to upgrade 50 month old installation
Alan McKinnon wrote: On 05/08/2015 05:28, Felix Miata wrote: If we (gentoo) had a simple installation semantic, this sort of problem would most likely disappear; so the wider community could delve into other technical support issues.. YMMV. I get the feeling Gentoo isn't a right choice for people who need a simple installation semantic. Bingo. People keep trying to dumb Gentoo down and make it somehow automagic. These people uniformly do not understand the entire Gentoo landscape. Here's what binary distros do: A bunch of dudes decide how the thing will be built. They make choices. A bunch of maintainers decide how their package will be built and what it will do. They make choices. Both groups give their choices to you. If you do not like their choices, use a different distro. By making choices and mostly casting them in stone, these maintainers have swapped the ability to have anything you want and replace it with ease of use (or lack of having to think about detail). Here's how Gentoo works: All of the above, you do yourself. You assume the entire responsibility that distro devs take, and you take it all upon yourself, the whole damn lot. Gentoo devs do make choices, but this process is not in any way comparable to what binary distros do. In Gentoo, a dev's choice is a reasonable default, you always have the option to do it your way (and keep all the tiny pieces when it shatters) It should be more obvious now why simple installation semantic is a total oxymoron in a Gentoo setting. It is a) anything but simple and b) your vast array of choices (limited only by what upstream sources can be configured to do) blow any idea of a consistent framework out of the water. The best you will do with a Gentoo install semantic is satisfy a clearly defined sub-set of Gentoo users. Put another way and using a car analogy: Fedora gives you an off the floor model from a dealer, complete with lots of options like auto/manual or aircon or optional electric mirrors. Gentoo is a kit car, with the option of not even having a body mould if you don't want one. Want to design and make it all yourself? Yeah you can do that. Want to rather make a beach buggy that someone else did the work on, re-use their work so you can concentrate only on the paint detail? Yeah, that is supported to. Every time I hear the words simple or just in a Gentoo context, I have to suppress a laugh :-) +1 I still recall the last time Gentoo had a installer. The biggest change I saw was people coming on the forums, this mailing list and a few other places asking questions that had they done a regular install, they would have already known the answer to. As I have said before several times, the install process teaches a LOT about how Gentoo works and also gives a basis for how to maintain it as well. If they do another installer, we will see the same thing again. People that use that installer will find that they have to actually know how Gentoo works to maintain their install. After running into some problems a few times, they end up moving on because they find Gentoo to hard to work with. Gentoo is not your ordinary distro. It is unique for sure. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-224 Look out for new networking behavior [FIXED]
On Wednesday, August 05, 2015 6:18:07 AM Franz Fellner wrote: walt wrote: On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 08:19:37 +0200 Franz Fellner alpine.art...@gmail.com wrote: Fernando Rodriguez wrote: On Monday, August 03, 2015 6:41:22 PM walt wrote: That line declares *hostname as a constant and then the statement below proceeds to assign a value to the 'constant'. I wonder how many hours of frustration have been suffered by student programmers while trying to understand the logic behind that. Because it's not a constant, it's a pointer-to-constant :) Both of you are right, you can read the declaration in both ways: hostname is of type pointer to const char. *hostname is of type const char. But in this case it is not *hostname, that get's a value assigned, it's simply hostname. If you do not set hostname to NULL it stays uninitialised, which means its value is what the actual memory is set to - quite undefined. Correct initialization is really important and should be done consequently so it gets an automatism ;) (would avoid issues like this) const char *hostname; /* pointer to constant char */ char *const hostname; /* constant pointer to char */ const char *const hostname; /* constant pointer to constant char */ Is that confusing enough? confusing++ Thank you both for being patient enough to teach the ineducable :) Let me give you one more example of syntax that I find unreasonable, and then I'll ask my *real* question, about which I hope you will have opinions. Okay, the statement I referred to above uses this notation: if (!link-network-hostname) this notation makes sense to me r = sd_dhcp_lease_get_hostname(lease, hostname); this doesn't The -operator returns the address of the object, in this case of hostname. If you would just pass hostname the function would receive a _copy_ of the object. hostname is an out-argument, the function writes to it. That is needed sometimes as C only can return one value, if you need to return more things you need to pass them as out-args. But for that to work you need to operate on the actual object and not a copy of it, so you need to pass the address to the actual object. The declaration of the function of course needs to specify the arg as pointer to the actual type, here pointer to a pointer to char. You can look at it like that, but more technically it's because C doesn't support out arguments, or reference arguments, or objects. All arguments are passed by value. You can return multiple values in a struct but it's not very convenient both in terms of usability (you need to store the result in a variable before you can use it unless you only care about one member) and performance since everything needs to be copied. Plus the implementation may vary significantly between compilers and architectures So in order to get a value back from the function (other than the return) you pass the address (a pointer) where you want that data to be written. Things like that make C seem primitive if your coming from a higher level language but it is what makes C so powerful. Once you get the hang of it and understand how everything works it's actually simpler than higher level languages because C doesn't do stuff behind you back (or does very little) so you can read C code a understand what's going on under the hood. Most Java and .NET developers for example have no clue about what goes on in their own programs under the hood. In this context does 'hostname' mean a-pointer-to-a-pointer-to-the- charstring we actually need? Doesn't this code seem needlessly complicated? okay, screed over, thanks for listening Somewhere I read that there was really only *one* java program ever written, and every subsequent java program was written by cut-and-paste from the first one. Is that how professional developers learn the art of programming? That's how you write bugs :) There's nothing wrong with it if you take the take to understand what it's doing but it's too often done blindly. I really would like to hear your opinions on that question because I feel it's an important topic. Thanks guys. -- Fernando Rodriguez
Re: [gentoo-user] want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 08:33:00 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: And then you will repeat the whole thing to deal with udev and friends. And then for OpenRC. And then the whole split /usr thing Bash will cause much pain. Oh, I almost forgot, there was that bash completion mess too. For an idea of how much you'll have to deal with, run emerge --sync eselect news list -- Neil Bothwick In space, no one can hear you fart. pgpCPk8C1X5V_.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 23:28:25 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: The Gentoo instructions look competent enough to do well for most of the people it's designed for, if only they aren't trying to do as currently I, avoid systemd. Eh? The Handbook is for an OpenRC install, it's the systemd users that have to jump through extra hoops. -- Neil Bothwick Nothing is illegal if one hundred businessmen decide to do it. pgpyTSd7Bze51.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 00:39:56 + (UTC), James wrote: Um, we can think out of the box for a new and cool installation semantic. Just look at blueness's posting (Gentoo Reference System) on www.gentoo.org as a new, and useful approach to installs for established gentoo admins. That's interesting, but not an installer. It's a means to building a standard reference system repeatedly that then needs installing. I see one major problem with a pointy-clicky YaST/Ananconda type installer: who is going to write it? Who has that particular itch bad enough to scratch it? An automated installer is another matter, write a config file and point it at some bare metal using something like Ansible, to allow sysadmins to roll out systems with less fiddling. -- Neil Bothwick But there, everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses. -- Jerome K. Jerome pgpcWY45rQxh6.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On Wednesday 05 August 2015 08:48:21 Alan McKinnon wrote: It should be more obvious now why simple installation semantic is a total oxymoron in a Gentoo setting. I don't even understand what it means. What is a semantic? As far as I know, semantic is an adjective, relating to meaning, especially of words to quote Chambers which I happen to have to hand. [OT] Much confusion is caused by people continually inventing new ways of using words with insufficient thought to how they would fit into the existing structure. Like momentarily for example, which in the current American usage is not related to momentary. Sometimes I wish the language were still in the care of academics. [/OT] -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] want to upgrade 50 month old installation
2015-08-04 21:28 GMT-06:00 Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net: I really should have followed up on my installation 50 months ago at *least* 3 years ago. I have no recollection what stopped me, unless it was a naive choice to put it on one of my oldest slowest machines with nv11 instead of newer Intel or ATI and bunches more CPU power. It could also at least in part be a result of space required exceeding what I'm used to. Most of my test installations are in 4.8G / partitions that wind up 80% full or less. This original is on 4.8G, has only 26% free, apparently has no Xorg or KDE, and no qlist to figure what *is* installed. You are not going anywhere with 4.8GiB if thats all you plan to give to gentoo. Get at lest 25 to have distfiles and plenty of build space if you will try to build e.g. firefox. you can deploy gentoo on less than that but you can't build it. Another thing I don't get, is why people keep trying to put gentoo on old slow machines to learn to use it, if they konw in advance they will have to compile, this is just voluntary PITA, personally I waited until I had at least 4 cores to try gentoo, using old hardware, means more build and maintenance time than actually getting something to work, also a VM is a bad Idea now that containers are available(getting a gentoo container with systemd, can take less than 15min using systemd-nspwan, systemd build included, and pretty much emulates a vm with way less overhead on the memory and processor, for learning gentoo purposes useful, unless OpenRC is the topic you are learning)
Re: [gentoo-user] want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 10:05:48 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: [OT] Much confusion is caused by people continually inventing new ways of using words with insufficient thought to how they would fit into the existing structure. Like momentarily for example, which in the current American usage is not related to momentary. Sometimes I wish the language were still in the care of academics. [/OT] Verily indeede. -- Neil Bothwick Cross-country skiing is great in small countries. pgpw1msC_h_k8.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On 05/08/2015 09:00, Marc Joliet wrote: Am Tue, 04 Aug 2015 23:13:20 -0400 schrieb Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net: Neil Bothwick composed on 2015-08-04 21:36 (UTC+0100): On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 15:32:51 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: I've yet to figure out how to get a list of all installed packages akin to 'rpm -qa | sort', so I really don't know what my starting configuration is. qlist -ICv -bash: qlist: command not found emerge qlist fails (with unable to parse profile...unsupported EAPI '5') It is part of app-portage/portage-utils. Which he will have to install first :-) If the distfile is still available and he needs no deps, that will work as he has an old portage and tree. If not, well there's always go through /var/db/pkg with ls, find and friends -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-224 Look out for new networking behavior [FIXED]
On 05/08/2015 10:18, Fernando Rodriguez wrote: You can look at it like that, but more technically it's because C doesn't support out arguments, or reference arguments, or objects. All arguments are passed by value. You can return multiple values in a struct but it's not very convenient both in terms of usability (you need to store the result in a variable before you can use it unless you only care about one member) and performance since everything needs to be copied. Plus the implementation may vary significantly between compilers and architectures So in order to get a value back from the function (other than the return) you pass the address (a pointer) where you want that data to be written. Things like that make C seem primitive if your coming from a higher level language but it is what makes C so powerful. Once you get the hang of it and understand how everything works it's actually simpler than higher level languages because C doesn't do stuff behind you back (or does very little) so you can read C code a understand what's going on under the hood. Most Java and .NET developers for example have no clue about what goes on in their own programs under the hood. Thanks for the reminder. I'd forgotten much about C (not needing to read or write it much these days) In this context does 'hostname' mean a-pointer-to-a-pointer-to-the- charstring we actually need? Doesn't this code seem needlessly complicated? okay, screed over, thanks for listening Somewhere I read that there was really only *one* java program ever written, and every subsequent java program was written by cut-and-paste from the first one. Is that how professional developers learn the art of programming? Looking back 12 months to some former colleagues, that is *exactly* how the Java ecosystem works. I haven't seen anyone write Java from scratch in *years* now, all of them seem to twiddle little bits inside some huge framework and have zero concept about what is going on. So you get anomolies like a giant payroll/compensation/commission reporting tool thingamagic from Oracle that does everything imaginable about sales commissions, except actually report on them. True fax - ask my wife That's how you write bugs :) There's nothing wrong with it if you take the take to understand what it's doing but it's too often done blindly. I really would like to hear your opinions on that question because I feel it's an important topic. Much of what makes programming work has been dumbed down in recent years so that employable persons without imagination[1] can have jobs and do something useful. I'm reminded of an old saw about PHP: The nice thing about php is it let's everyone and their dog write code. The bad thing about php is that they do. I suppose there's a place for that kind of thing, a lot of corporate systems are mostly boilerplate where a huge framework (and equally huge expensive over-specced hardware) gets the job done. The thing that really changes is the exact calculations in the business-logic middleware layer, someone else did the heavy lifting of joining all the modules together to resemble the real-world workflow. It's not my way of working though, and I suspect most Gentooers tend the same way if they get the chance. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 12:37:30 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: -bash: qlist: command not found emerge qlist fails (with unable to parse profile...unsupported EAPI '5') It is part of app-portage/portage-utils. Which he will have to install first :-) If the distfile is still available and he needs no deps, that will work as he has an old portage and tree. If not, well there's always go through /var/db/pkg with ls, find and friends ls -1d /var/db/pkg/*/* | cut -c13- -- Neil Bothwick I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder. pgpCzsV7qzgss.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-user] Re: want to upgrade 50 month old installation
Neil Bothwick neil at digimed.co.uk writes: Um, we can think out of the box for a new and cool installation semantic. Just look at blueness's posting (Gentoo Reference System) on www.gentoo.org as a new, and useful approach to installs for established gentoo admins. That's interesting, but not an installer. It's a means to building a standard reference system repeatedly that then needs installing. First, Anthony identifies but one popular need for gentooers with advanced skills to want (and highly desire) a robust method to install new gentoo systems. So it's not just the noobs, but devs and everybody in between that knows that this is a good idea. What do we end up with ? I'd hope several different approaches to installing real hardware as well as virtual hardware. The faster/simpler/error-free the better, imho::YMMV. Anthony's works is alpha so guys like yourself, with tons of experiences, could provide him ideas. You'll find he's quite a wonderful dev to work with collegial is a very accurate term to describe Anthony as a dev. I see one major problem with a pointy-clicky YaST/Ananconda type installer: who is going to write it? Who has that particular itch bad enough to scratch it? Rich0 said he'd modify the handbook into an experimental prose that leads to a raid-1 btrfs baseline system, if enough folks liked the ideas. I think that approach is best, because it makes all the 'die_hard handbook fans happy and can also server as a preliminary specification to an actual automated installation, not just for noobs. Add a dose of 'snapshots' (snapper) and we'd have a much better support semantic for noobs and the rest of us too! An automated installer is another matter, write a config file and point it at some bare metal using something like Ansible, to allow sysadmins to roll out systems with less fiddling. Yes, but they are inter-related issues, imho. Yes I like what you are saying. There are several needs here for automation of gentoo installs; not just for noobs, but for those of us trying to develop or stabilize other codes. HDFS, sucks as a distributed file system. HDFS is the source of many problems found in modern clustering. For me, I'm spending way too much time on trying to find an automated (semi-automated) install semantic for raid-1_btrfs. So my work on mesos [1] is very slow, ATM. Fix the installation problem, and I'll deliver (toes crossed tightly) the most 'bad ass' clustering technology currently available:: *Mesos + spark + storm + tachyon + cassandra* on gentoo (amd64). Then the stabilization work moves to arm64. Both platforms on top of btrfs/cephfs is going to be *smokin_wicked_cool*. Built from sources, gentoo will be quickly adopted by many expert linux types. The baggage/packaging problems, kernel tuning and optimization needs puts Gentoo in a unique position to dominate this space... That's my position and I'm sticking with it hth, James [1] http://www.openstacksv.com/2014/09/02/make-no-small-plans/
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 7:57 AM, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Rich0 said he'd modify the handbook into an experimental prose that leads to a raid-1 btrfs baseline system, if enough folks liked the ideas. Just to clarify - I intend to do it, full stop. I don't want to generate some kind of please do it campaign - I was just saying that there seems to be interest so it is worth doing. I've just been travelling for the last few days. There really shouldn't be too much to this. -- Rich
[gentoo-user] Re: ipset needs to patch the kernel?
Meino.Cramer at gmx.de writes: I dont like the idea of patching the kernel in order to get some minor user land tools to run... ipset has been integrated into the kernel:: 'equery belongs ipset' so you are just 'enabling' it to work. Are there any other ways to achieve the same ? Yes, but it's a ton more work:: https://github.com/Olipro/ipset Note that those files have not been touched in a while. The files in all capitals are excellent reading to enhance your understanding of the options. I'd google for additional and newer information on ipset, until you are comfortable with what you are doing with ipset and sidmat. Sorry, I have no experience with sidmat directly. hth, James
[gentoo-user] Re: want to upgrade 50 month old installation
Rich Freeman rich0 at gentoo.org writes: Rich0 said he'd modify the handbook into an experimental prose that leads to a raid-1 btrfs baseline system, if enough folks liked the ideas. Just to clarify - I intend to do it, full stop. I don't want to generate some kind of please do it campaign - I was just saying that there seems to be interest so it is worth doing. Sorry for putting you on the spot. But, there is a multitude of good things that will flow out of your efforts, Blueness efforts and those of muffblaster and many more. There are many needs, all inter-related, imho. I've just been travelling for the last few days. There really shouldn't be too much to this. No worries! I'll predict that this (raid1/btrfs) is going to be 'massively successful' as an addition to the handbook, for a wide variety of reasons. Btrfs on top of cephfs is the best FOSS distributed file system currently available in open source form. Commercially supported DFS, like BeeGFS have one foot in the opensource world (client side) but I'm not sure the rest of the code is 'palatable' to the FOSS world and gentoo devs. [1] This site has several interesting documents on beeGFS; as it is being utilized by some very aggressive folks when it comes to HPC. It's worth watching. Btrfs/Cephfs gets the rank and file gentoo community into Distributed File Systems; and that's a very good idea, imho. This combo supports RDMA (RoCE) [2] Cephfs + btrfs have both been aggressively supported on arm8v. So both embedded gentoo on arm8v and servers based on chips like the AMD arm64 server chipsets are all set to 'rock and roll' as soon as these devices start shipping in quantity (~christmas 2015). THANKS Rich! James [1] http://www.beegfs.com/content/news/ Introduction_to_BEEFGS_by_ThinkParQ.pdf [2] http://www.networkcomputing.com/networking/will-rdma-over-ethernet-eclipse-infiniband/a/d-id/1316950
[gentoo-user] Re: want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On 2015-08-05, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 23:28:25 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: The Gentoo instructions look competent enough to do well for most of the people it's designed for, if only they aren't trying to do as currently I, avoid systemd. Eh? The Handbook is for an OpenRC install, it's the systemd users that have to jump through extra hoops. That's a relief. I was panicking for a minute there that somehow Gentoo had turned on me since that last time I did an install (several months ago) and was now trying to shove systemd down everybody's throat. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! I can't decide which at WRONG TURN to make first!! gmail.comI wonder if BOB GUCCIONE has these problems!
[gentoo-user] Re: want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On 2015-08-05, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 04/08/2015 20:30, Felix Miata wrote: Seriously, more than a day? Bwahahahaha! You are too funny! THREE WEEKS is not uncommon for this. I am not joking. Remember, I have done it, and so have many others here. It was fun the first time, now it is just a major PITA Mostly it just provides an opportunity to prove you're too stubborn for your own good. About 20% of the way through, it's pretty apparent that giving up and installing from scratch will be a lot faster. At this point, you've learned most of what you're going to learn, and it's just a long hard slog the rest of the way. But do you give up and do a fresh install? No, you keep going because it's there. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! The SAME WAVE keeps at coming in and COLLAPSING gmail.comlike a rayon MUU-MUU ...
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On 05/08/2015 16:27, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2015-08-05, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 04/08/2015 20:30, Felix Miata wrote: Seriously, more than a day? Bwahahahaha! You are too funny! THREE WEEKS is not uncommon for this. I am not joking. Remember, I have done it, and so have many others here. It was fun the first time, now it is just a major PITA Mostly it just provides an opportunity to prove you're too stubborn for your own good. About 20% of the way through, it's pretty apparent that giving up and installing from scratch will be a lot faster. At this point, you've learned most of what you're going to learn, and it's just a long hard slog the rest of the way. But do you give up and do a fresh install? No, you keep going because it's there. But of course! Pig-headedness trumping sane rational thought is a hallmark of typical Gentoo users ( or at least a not-insignificant subset of them) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote: On 2015-08-05, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 23:28:25 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: The Gentoo instructions look competent enough to do well for most of the people it's designed for, if only they aren't trying to do as currently I, avoid systemd. Eh? The Handbook is for an OpenRC install, it's the systemd users that have to jump through extra hoops. That's a relief. I was panicking for a minute there that somehow Gentoo had turned on me since that last time I did an install (several months ago) and was now trying to shove systemd down everybody's throat. Just to humor you I'll include an OpenRC version of my raid1 btrfs install walkthrough. :) It has been a while since I've done one of those... -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Can't boot btrfs
On Sunday 02 August 2015 09:11:18 Peter Humphrey wrote: On Friday 31 July 2015 13:53:42 Dale wrote: This may not be related but thought I would mention. For some reason, my system will not boot a kernel newer than 3.18.7. I use gentoo-sources and generally use make oldconfig. I have also tried the new 4.0 kernels as well. They try to boot but don't make it past the kernel trying to do its thing. I don't reboot often so I have not had the chance to figure out exactly why this is happening. Recently I had to start using that pesky init thingy but I don't think that is causing the problem. I get a error/panic and then it says it is going to reboot in 10 seconds. By the time I figure out where the failure might be, it reboots itself. That could well be it, Dale. I tried both my currently installed kernels, 3.18.16 and 4.0.5, but of course they're both later than 3.18.7. I'd still like to get this working, so I'll install an earlier kernel and try that - when I've had a bit of a rest! Nope. That wasn't it. Two more days of wrestling later I still haven't got it to boot. I have to conclude that this BIOS is simply incapable of it, or I've missed a kernel setting despite hours of poring over the config. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On Wednesday 05 August 2015 10:43:28 Rich Freeman wrote: Just to humor you I'll include an OpenRC version of my raid1 btrfs install walkthrough. :) It has been a while since I've done one of those... Me too please, Rich. I still haven't got this six-year-old MBR box to boot raid1 btrfs. Oh, and do you know why the handbook now says to include a tiny grub partition before the boot partition, even on an MBR system? -- Rgds Peter -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 16:26:02 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: Oh, and do you know why the handbook now says to include a tiny grub partition before the boot partition, even on an MBR system? If you use GPT on a motherboard with BIOS, you need that partition. It's on UEFI systems that you don't need it. -- Neil Bothwick Vital papers will demonstrate their vitality by moving to where you can't find them. pgpOz0hxNsmMb.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 14:27:08 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: THREE WEEKS is not uncommon for this. I am not joking. Remember, I have done it, and so have many others here. It was fun the first time, now it is just a major PITA Mostly it just provides an opportunity to prove you're too stubborn for your own good. About 20% of the way through, it's pretty apparent that giving up and installing from scratch will be a lot faster. At this point, you've learned most of what you're going to learn, and it's just a long hard slog the rest of the way. But do you give up and do a fresh install? No, you keep going because it's there. But of course, otherwise you would have wasted that 20% of the time, just don't think about the other 80% you're about to waste. You just need to make it to 50% and you can justify the rest. This reminds me of a Douglas Adams quote I have a well-deserved reputation for being something of a gadget freak, and am rarely happier than when spending an entire day programming my computer to perform automatically a task that would otherwise take me a good ten seconds to do by hand. -- Neil Bothwick When told the reason for Daylight Saving time the old Indian said... Only a white man would believe that you could cut a foot off the top of a blanket And sew it to the bottom of a blanket and have a longer blanket. pgpJQnOJPNhQd.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-224 Look out for new networking behavior [FIXED]
On Wednesday 05 Aug 2015 11:47:58 Alan McKinnon wrote: Much of what makes programming work has been dumbed down in recent years so that employable persons without imagination[1] can have jobs and do something useful. I'm reminded of an old saw about PHP: The nice thing about php is it let's everyone and their dog write code. The bad thing about php is that they do. Your imagination[1] footnote didn't make it to the list. I thought for a minute that you used some php parser ... :p -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] make.conf bindist
I did not want to tread on another thread so:: I have bindist set in make.conf. I'm not sure why, as it has most likely been there a while. I have plent of compiler power... # equery hasuse bindist * Searching for USE flag bindist ... [IP-] [ ] dev-libs/openssl-0.9.8z_p7:0.9.8 [IP-] [ ] dev-libs/openssl-1.0.2c:0 [IP-] [ ] mail-client/thunderbird-38.1.0:0 [IP-] [ ] media-libs/freetype-2.5.5:2 [IP-] [ ] media-libs/mesa-10.3.7-r1:0 [IP-] [ ] net-misc/openssh-6.9_p1-r2:0 [IP-] [ ] www-client/firefox-38.1.0:0 So just removed it and recompile anything? Are there any reasons to keep it set in make.conf for any of those packages? James
Re: [gentoo-user] make.conf bindist
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 1:24 PM, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: I have bindist set in make.conf. I'm not sure why, as it has most likely been there a while. I have plent of compiler power... It is part of the stage3 default make.conf, so it isn't surprising that you have it. Most users will probably want to turn it off. Bindist removes features as necessary to avoid installing software which isn't redistributable. For example our install CDs and stage3s are built with USE=bindist, since we have to redistribute them. Setting this flag gives firefox the iceweasel treatment and may exclude patent-encumbered code. So, set it per your preference. Since the stage3 was built with USE=bindist it sets it by default, and that is the safer preference in any case. License-purists might prefer to leave it this way and that gives you an experience similar to debian main repository, etc. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk wrote: On Wednesday 05 August 2015 10:43:28 Rich Freeman wrote: Just to humor you I'll include an OpenRC version of my raid1 btrfs install walkthrough. :) It has been a while since I've done one of those... Me too please, Rich. I still haven't got this six-year-old MBR box to boot raid1 btrfs. FWIW, my notes are at: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VJlJyYLTZScta9a81xgKOIBjYsG3_VfxxmUSxG23Uxg/edit?usp=sharing I plan to clean this up for a blog and perhaps wiki article. However, anybody should be able to just follow those notes and get a bootable system. Note that I skipped some stuff like network setup, but I did install everything you should need to configure the network. I've worked through the openrc install, and I'm working through the systemd install now. Really the only thing you do different for systemd is select a different profile, pick the right kernel config, and enable system in the grub configuration. For non-systemd you again pick the non-systemd profile you want, pick the openrc kernel config, and don't mess with grub. For UEFI it would need a tiny bit more work, and a FAT32 boot partition (which I left off - I just did a simple MBR install here). Feel free to comment on the notes if you want to contibute, or think that a particular point needs clarification. Again, these are just notes and I do plan to wikify it, but I don't necessarily plan to recreate the entire handbook with these steps thrown in - if anything it would probably make more sense to just add a few notes to the existing handbook. Really the only thing that is btrfs-specific here is using grub2 (which is the default anyway), the btrfs setup at the start, the fstab, and installing btrfs-progs. The kernel is also overkill, being based on the install CD (which obviously got you that far already, but probably includes a lot of modules you don't need). Being an initramfs install the kernel is modular, so you're only sacrificing kernel build time, not kernel memory at runtime. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-224 Look out for new networking behavior [FIXED]
On 05/08/2015 19:20, Mick wrote: On Wednesday 05 Aug 2015 11:47:58 Alan McKinnon wrote: Much of what makes programming work has been dumbed down in recent years so that employable persons without imagination[1] can have jobs and do something useful. I'm reminded of an old saw about PHP: The nice thing about php is it let's everyone and their dog write code. The bad thing about php is that they do. Your imagination[1] footnote didn't make it to the list. I thought for a minute that you used some php parser ... :p That's what happens when you make a typo after a thinko -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-224 Look out for new networking behavior [FIXED]
On Wednesday, August 05, 2015 12:47:58 PM Alan McKinnon wrote: On 05/08/2015 10:18, Fernando Rodriguez wrote: In this context does 'hostname' mean a-pointer-to-a-pointer-to-the- charstring we actually need? Doesn't this code seem needlessly complicated? okay, screed over, thanks for listening Somewhere I read that there was really only *one* java program ever written, and every subsequent java program was written by cut-and-paste from the first one. Is that how professional developers learn the art of programming? Looking back 12 months to some former colleagues, that is *exactly* how the Java ecosystem works. I haven't seen anyone write Java from scratch in *years* now, all of them seem to twiddle little bits inside some huge framework and have zero concept about what is going on. Only 12 months? Most IDEs and/or frameworks basically set up everything and just add bits like // Write your code here Problems start when these ama...eerh... programmers put there code in other locations... So you get anomolies like a giant payroll/compensation/commission reporting tool thingamagic from Oracle that does everything imaginable about sales commissions, except actually report on them. True fax - ask my wife Don't need to ask her, seen it with my own eyes... It keeps amazing me that the software actually does work most of the time. That's how you write bugs :) There's nothing wrong with it if you take the take to understand what it's doing but it's too often done blindly. I really would like to hear your opinions on that question because I feel it's an important topic. Much of what makes programming work has been dumbed down in recent years so that employable persons without imagination[1] can have jobs and do something useful. I'm reminded of an old saw about PHP: The nice thing about php is it let's everyone and their dog write code. The bad thing about php is that they do. Couldn't find that particular quote, but the following page should be required study for everyone starting with programming. (It's for PHP, but should work for ALL languages): http://code.tutsplus.com/tutorials/why-youre-a-bad-php-programmer--net-18384 I suppose there's a place for that kind of thing, a lot of corporate systems are mostly boilerplate where a huge framework (and equally huge expensive over-specced hardware) gets the job done. Well, when you have a big rocketbooster for propulsion, why not build a car from solid rock without wheels? The thing that really changes is the exact calculations in the business-logic middleware layer, someone else did the heavy lifting of joining all the modules together to resemble the real-world workflow. And then these same corporates want to add new features and such which means improving the codebase. Breaking the badly (or not at all) understood logic in the process. It's not my way of working though, and I suspect most Gentooers tend the same way if they get the chance. ++ this is why I still use Gentoo...
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-224 Look out for new networking behavior [FIXED]
On Wednesday, August 05, 2015 06:20:17 PM Mick wrote: On Wednesday 05 Aug 2015 11:47:58 Alan McKinnon wrote: Much of what makes programming work has been dumbed down in recent years so that employable persons without imagination[1] can have jobs and do something useful. I'm reminded of an old saw about PHP: The nice thing about php is it let's everyone and their dog write code. The bad thing about php is that they do. Your imagination[1] footnote didn't make it to the list. I thought for a minute that you used some php parser ... :p It's not that old for an old saying. I can't find a reference to that saying older then august 2014 using Google. And all those are links to the same email written by our own Alan McKinnon -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-224 Look out for new networking behavior [FIXED]
On 05/08/2015 23:12, J. Roeleveld wrote: On Wednesday, August 05, 2015 06:20:17 PM Mick wrote: On Wednesday 05 Aug 2015 11:47:58 Alan McKinnon wrote: Much of what makes programming work has been dumbed down in recent years so that employable persons without imagination[1] can have jobs and do something useful. I'm reminded of an old saw about PHP: The nice thing about php is it let's everyone and their dog write code. The bad thing about php is that they do. Your imagination[1] footnote didn't make it to the list. I thought for a minute that you used some php parser ... :p It's not that old for an old saying. I can't find a reference to that saying older then august 2014 using Google. And all those are links to the same email written by our own Alan McKinnon Ah! That's because it was I who made it up years ago and have told it to lots of people. About a year ago is obviously the first time I wrote it down :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
[gentoo-user] Re: systemd-224 Look out for new networking behavior [FIXED]
On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 23:00:36 +0200 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: the following page should be required study for everyone starting with programming. (It's for PHP, but should work for ALL languages): http://code.tutsplus.com/tutorials/why-youre-a-bad-php-programmer--net-18384 Excellent article, thanks, and interesting website. I've been looking for a good javascript tutorial and I see they offer several of them.
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
Heiko Baums composed on 2015-08-06 07:19 (UTC+0200): ... It's actually pretty easy. I'm sure plenty have found that to be the case. My problem is inability to connect the dots between the 12.1 column on http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gentoo and the instructions. Goal #1 is to get Grub 0.97 on my first pass following those instructions, and Grub2 never, rather than skipping the bootloader installation step. Goal #2 is to get through that first pass without any of systemd being installed. Choosing options rather accepting defaults is not pretty easy, at least for me who installed Gentoo only once previously, more than 4 years ago. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
Felix Miata composed on 2015-08-05 22:23 (UTC-0400): After reading https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Media#Minimal_installation_CD which does not link to it until after its first mention I spent considerable time on http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/gentoo/ trying to find one. The only iso files I managed to find are DVD size. When I reach the location that I think should list them, http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/gentoo/releases/x86/autobuilds/current-iso (aka www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/gentoo), I consistently get this instead: http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/images/bucket.jpg Sorry, we cannot find your kernels My brain got entangled again. I did find the minimal install .iso, but not one corresponding to the Gentoo starting point I wanted, something resembling the date of the stage below. :-p I really wanted to install by booting from an installed Linux anyway, but first command after extracting stage and chrooting, I got this: failed to run command '/bin/bash': Exec format error When I attempted to find the stage file to download in the first place, they all seemed to be arch-agnostic, so this is the one I tried (newest pre-Grub2): http://www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/gentoo/releases/sh/autobuilds/20120323/sh4-unknown-linux-gnu/stage3-sh4-20120307.tar.bz2 Kernel booted from is Debian Jessie's 3.16.0-4-amd64, on a Core2Duo E8400, so I'm confused why the apparent arch error message. ??? -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [gentoo-user] Diagnosing file corruption
On Wednesday, August 05, 2015 5:34:43 PM Bryan Gardiner wrote: Hello list, On my most recent update, I had some build failures that led me to find that some files on my root partition have been corrupted. This is a new Asus N550JK laptop, a mostly-stable amd64 install with gentoo-sources-4.0.5 and ext4-root-in-LVM-in-LUKS-on-HDD, and Debian lives in there too (no problems showed up verifying Debian's packages; I installed Debian on Jul 1 and used it for a week before getting time to set up Gentoo). These are the package merge times, package names, and files that I found to be corrupted via qcheck (there were also a couple Python headers that I fixed by rebuilding). They appear to be filled with random data. The binpkg contents in /usr/portage/packages are okay, so I don't know when the files were corrupted; their mtimes haven't been updated since the packages were installed. Thu-Jul-30-22:40:23-2015 app-arch/p7zip-9.20.1-r5 /usr/lib64/p7zip/Lang/va.txt Thu-Jul-30-22:40:23-2015 app-arch/p7zip-9.20.1-r5 /usr/lib64/p7zip/help/cmdline/switches/large_pages.htm Sun-Jul-19-22:34:30-2015 dev-libs/libzip-1.0.1 /usr/share/man/man3/zip_error_get_sys_type.3.bz2 Sun-Jul-26-22:35:28-2015 dev-python/pygments-2.0.1-r1 /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/pygments/styles/pastie.pyc Wed-Jul-08-23:34:56-2015 media-libs/tiff-4.0.3-r6 /usr/share/man/man3/TIFFGetField.3tiff.bz2 Thu-Jul-30-10:05:31-2015 sci-mathematics/scilab-5.5.2 /usr/share/scilab/modules/compatibility_functions/macros/%b_l_s.bin -(from-stage3-on-Jul-8)- sys-apps/acl-2.2.52-r1 /usr/share/man/man3/acl_set_file.3.bz2 I haven't had any unclean shutdowns, it looks like OpenRC is unmounting things cleanly on shutdown, and suspend appears to work fine. After I make a fresh backup of my files, how would you recommend troubleshooting this? Run memtest or a hard drive tester? Since the files seemingly corrupted themselves after install without being touched, I'm highly suspicious of the hard drive, but would like to rule other things out (if say for example that CONFIG_X86_INTEL_PSTATE CPU clock booster is dangerous, or nvidia-drivers, or ...). Haven't checked for corruption on /home yet. This is the disk: *-disk description: ATA Disk product: ST1000LM024 HN-M vendor: Seagate physical id: 0.0.0 bus info: scsi@4:0.0.0 logical name: /dev/sda version: 0001 size: 931GiB (1TB) capabilities: gpt-1.00 partitioned partitioned:gpt configuration: ansiversion=5 guid=---- sectorsize=4096 Thanks for any help you can provide, Bryan You can use badblocks to rule out a bad drive (be sure to read the documentation first if you haven't). But I would guess that something LUKS related is more likely. There may be clues in your log files (probably around the time when you installed these packages). -- Fernando Rodriguez
Re: [gentoo-user] 'tar xvjpf stage3-*.tar.bz2 --xattrs' failed with unknown option --xattrs
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net wrote: I booted x86_64 openSUSE 13.1 HD installation to try to begin Gentoo installation, beginning from Unpacking the stage tarball on https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Stage : # tar xvjpf /pub/stage3-sh4-20120307.tar.bz2 --xattrs Tar (GNU tar) v1.26 reported unrecognized option '--xattrs' Searching the tar man page for 'xattrs' produced no hits, and same for bzip2 man page. I rebooted into Debian Jessie instead to try again, and the same command with Gnu tar 1.27.1 completed, apparently normally. ??? xattr support is optional in tar. In fact, with Gentoo you can set USE=xattr or -xattr and get a tar with/without it. Apparently OpenSUSE builds their tar without xattr support, while Debian includes support for it. System Rescue CD and the official Gentoo install CD both support xattr. -- Rich
[gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
After reading https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Media#Minimal_installation_CD which does not link to it until after its first mention I spent considerable time on http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/gentoo/ trying to find one. The only iso files I managed to find are DVD size. When I reach the location that I think should list them, http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/gentoo/releases/x86/autobuilds/current-iso (aka www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/gentoo), I consistently get this instead: http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/images/bucket.jpg Sorry, we cannot find your kernels I really wanted to install by booting from an installed Linux anyway, but first command after extracting stage and chrooting, I got this: failed to run command '/bin/bash': Exec format error When I attempted to find the stage file to download in the first place, they all seemed to be arch-agnostic, so this is the one I tried (newest pre-Grub2): http://www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/gentoo/releases/sh/autobuilds/20120323/sh4-unknown-linux-gnu/stage3-sh4-20120307.tar.bz2 Kernel booted from is Debian Jessie's 3.16.0-4-amd64, on a Core2Duo E8400, so I'm confused why the apparent arch error message. ??? -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: ipset needs to patch the kernel?
James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com [15-08-05 17:32]: Meino.Cramer at gmx.de writes: I dont like the idea of patching the kernel in order to get some minor user land tools to run... ipset has been integrated into the kernel:: 'equery belongs ipset' so you are just 'enabling' it to work. Are there any other ways to achieve the same ? Yes, but it's a ton more work:: https://github.com/Olipro/ipset Note that those files have not been touched in a while. The files in all capitals are excellent reading to enhance your understanding of the options. I'd google for additional and newer information on ipset, until you are comfortable with what you are doing with ipset and sidmat. Sorry, I have no experience with sidmat directly. hth, James Hi James, thanks for your reply :) I think the whole thing ipset consists of a kernel configuration and a user tool, which is available via emerge. Unfortunately, emerge still insists of patching the kernel, which is - according to your informations - unnecessary. I unemerged ipset with emerge, fetched a new version from the internet, reconfigured the kernel accordingly, recompiled the kernel and this weekend I hopefully will have time to taste the soup... ;) Best regards, Meino
Re: [gentoo-user] 'tar xvjpf stage3-*.tar.bz2 --xattrs' failed with unknown option --xattrs
On Wednesday, August 05, 2015 9:45:43 PM Rich Freeman wrote: On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net wrote: I booted x86_64 openSUSE 13.1 HD installation to try to begin Gentoo installation, beginning from Unpacking the stage tarball on https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Stage : # tar xvjpf /pub/stage3-sh4-20120307.tar.bz2 --xattrs Tar (GNU tar) v1.26 reported unrecognized option '--xattrs' Searching the tar man page for 'xattrs' produced no hits, and same for bzip2 man page. I rebooted into Debian Jessie instead to try again, and the same command with Gnu tar 1.27.1 completed, apparently normally. ??? xattr support is optional in tar. In fact, with Gentoo you can set USE=xattr or -xattr and get a tar with/without it. Apparently OpenSUSE builds their tar without xattr support, while Debian includes support for it. System Rescue CD and the official Gentoo install CD both support xattr. At least with 1.27.1 if you build it without xattrs and you have all the xattr deps installed you'll get a tar that appears to have it enabled but silently ignores it when extracting. -- Fernando Rodriguez
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Wednesday, August 05, 2015 10:23:03 PM Felix Miata wrote: After reading https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Media#Minimal_installation_CD which does not link to it until after its first mention I spent considerable time on http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/gentoo/ trying to find one. The only iso files I managed to find are DVD size. When I reach the location that I think should list them, http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/gentoo/releases/x86/autobuilds/current-iso (aka www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/gentoo), I consistently get this instead: http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/images/bucket.jpg Sorry, we cannot find your kernels I really wanted to install by booting from an installed Linux anyway, but first command after extracting stage and chrooting, I got this: failed to run command '/bin/bash': Exec format error When I attempted to find the stage file to download in the first place, they all seemed to be arch-agnostic, so this is the one I tried (newest pre- Grub2): http://www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/gentoo/releases/sh/autobuilds/20120323/sh4-unknown-linux-gnu/stage3-sh4-20120307.tar.bz2 Kernel booted from is Debian Jessie's 3.16.0-4-amd64, on a Core2Duo E8400, so I'm confused why the apparent arch error message. ??? What makes you think it's arch agnostic when it says sh4-unknown-linux-gnu? You want amd64, not sh4. And why would you want a stage from 2012? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=download+gentoo -- Fernando Rodriguez
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
2015-08-05 23:33 GMT-06:00 Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net: Are you sure you read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote? Pages like LMGTFY *leads to*, not LMGTFY. I was where that *leads to* yesterday and the day before while progressing generally through wiki.gentoo.org and www.gentoo.org futilely trying to reconcile what's available according to Distrowatch and what's sitting on Gentoo's mirrors. I'll be blunt, basically the intention was to say you should use google for these kind of questions, the options are really obvious if you have read the instructions in the gentoo wiki, and don't go to Distrowatch when trying to find instructions to install gentoo(why would you do that?). Sourceforge hosts a ton of good stuff, but its presentation is annoying enough that I habitually avoid it except as last resort, typically choosing to avoid needing whatever it hosts rather than suffer mousetype and redirects to slow mirrors. you don't need to avoid it because you don't really need it, it might seem anyoing to you because you have been down stream, maintaners have gone for you to sourceforge.net to get the source code and make packages, unless you want to package something you don't need to go to sourceforge, except for upstream documentation maybe if the only place where is available is there.
[gentoo-user] Searching for Overlays
OK so yes I know overlays in the wild can be disastrous. Reading the devmanual while parsing through various ebuilds both portage and in the wild, does make for some interesting reading:: ymmv. I'm not sure my overlay (kung_fu) is complete. 'layman -L' lists reasonably qualified overlay sites; but you have to add them to search out their content directly. 'eix -R keywordname ' will search far and wide for a given overlay; like the distributed database 'cassandra. Some googling suggest that zugaina contains a master list of overlays? (not sure how true this is). I'm not sure if 'eix -R' or 'browsing zugaina' provides the widest possible list of (mostly safe) overlay sites. Last, googling for the name + ebuild or overlay can find packages, but if the archive (git etc) is not listed with a layman -L:: be very cautious audit the details of the overlay. Specifically, on dev-db/cassandara I find 2.1.3 and 2.12 ([5] spike-community-overlay layman/spike-community-overlay) but the cassandra.apache.org site shows 2.1.8 and 2.20 as the stable and testing downloads currently available. So is it safe to use the spike-community overlay as a basis to update the cassandra ebuild I have available? In general, is there a list (even a private list) of know good/bad actors on these overlay sites? Any further tidbits on searching out and qualifying overlays (yes I know only a full code audit is actually safe) that folks use or would suggest would be keen. I did see some gentoo wiki pages on the subject but they seem terse or dated. curiously, James
[gentoo-user] Re: Diagnosing file corruption
Bryan Gardiner bog at khumba.net writes: On my most recent update, I had some build failures that led me to find that some files on my root partition have been corrupted. Pretty open ended statement, so here's a few ideas. 'eix -cC app-forensics' will give a brief description of tools in that app-forensics category, so you can see what you have to work with. Other tools exist in other categories. I'm going to ignore the luks issues so others can chime in on that issue. A while back I ran across app-forensics/AIDE:: Typically, a system administrator will create an AIDE database on a new system before it is brought onto the network. This first AIDE database is a snapshot of the system in it's normal state and the yardstick by which all subsequent updates and changes will be measured. [1] Sounds great as a replacement for tripwire. I have yet to use this, but it'll be on my next system. You can use the -fetch option to download the fresh version of the packages (assuming you have deleted them first) where you suspect corruption and compile/install those again. Then set up AIDE? Sounds like a great idea for an internet facing server. Once you download those replacement packages, just unplug your ethernet until you are prepared to reconnect. [1] http://aide.sourceforge.net/stable/manual.html hth, James
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
Fernando Rodriguez composed on 2015-08-05 23:46 (UTC-0400): On Wednesday, August 05, 2015 10:23:03 PM Felix Miata wrote: ... all seemed to be arch-agnostic, so this is the one I tried (newest pre-Grub2): ... What makes you think it's arch agnostic when it says sh4-unknown-linux-gnu? Unknown significance of sh4, absence of string 32, coupled with string unknown, having read that what I want is under autobuild, after having looked all over mirrors.us.kernel.org/gentoo finding only DVD sized iso files regardless whether base URL included amd64 or *32*, and finding lots of differently aged alternatives for everything *except* the minimal installation CD. http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/gentoo/releases/amd64/autobuilds/current-install-amd64-minimal/stage3-amd64-20150730.tar.bz2 found I assumed because current would direct me past the post-Grub2 milestone. You want amd64, not sh4. And why would you want a stage from 2012? Answered above (and in other thread I started in recent hours here). http://lmgtfy.com/?q=download+gentoo Pages like that leads to are like Windows and Sourceforge software hosts where after muddling past licenses and assumption what one's looking for has anything to do with the puter used to search and script links autostarting download with web browser instead of wget I just stay away from their download links whenever I can find a direct route going straight to a mirror and see the hosting context, and very important to me, the file's timestamp, so that I can ensure the resulting download timestamp matches the host's timestamp whenever possible. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
2015-08-05 22:40 GMT-06:00 Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net: Fernando Rodriguez composed on 2015-08-05 23:46 (UTC-0400): http://lmgtfy.com/?q=download+gentoo Pages like that leads to are like Windows and Sourceforge software hosts where after muddling past licenses and assumption what one's looking for has anything to do with the puter used to search and script links autostarting LOL nothing like that, go ahead and find the beauty of lmgtfy. Also sourceforge is a pretty decent host for publishing open source software, it offers wikis, mailing list, code repositories, in fact various projects use it to develop open source, you might be talking about softonic. PD: I think you would be better using SystemRescueCD than the minimal cd, go ahead http://lmgtfy.com/?q=systemrescuecd+download
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
Am 06.08.2015 um 04:23 schrieb Felix Miata: After reading https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Media#Minimal_installation_CD which does not link to it until after its first mention I spent considerable time on http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/gentoo/ trying to find one. The only iso files I managed to find are DVD size. When I reach the location that I think should list them, http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/gentoo/releases/x86/autobuilds/current-iso (aka www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/gentoo), I consistently get this instead: http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/images/bucket.jpg Sorry, we cannot find your kernels I really wanted to install by booting from an installed Linux anyway, but first command after extracting stage and chrooting, I got this: failed to run command '/bin/bash': Exec format error When I attempted to find the stage file to download in the first place, they all seemed to be arch-agnostic, so this is the one I tried (newest pre-Grub2): http://www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/gentoo/releases/sh/autobuilds/20120323/sh4-unknown-linux-gnu/stage3-sh4-20120307.tar.bz2 Kernel booted from is Debian Jessie's 3.16.0-4-amd64, on a Core2Duo E8400, so I'm confused why the apparent arch error message. ??? I get the Minimal Installation CD and the stage3 with one resp. two clicks. Go to https://www.gentoo.org and click on Downloads. There you are. And if you do it from your link to the Gentoo Handbook: Go to https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Media#Minimal_installation_CD Read this: The default installation media that Gentoo Linux uses are the minimal installation CDs, which host a bootable, very small Gentoo Linux environment with the right tools to install Gentoo Linux from. The CD images themselves can be downloaded from one of the many mirrors available. On those mirrors, the minimal installation CDs can be found as follows: Go to the releases/ directory Select the right architecture, such as x86/ Select the autobuilds/ directory Select the current-iso/ directory Inside this location, the installation CD file is the file with the .iso suffix. For instance, take a look at the following listing: Click the link behind the word mirrors in the second sentence and follow the instructions you read before. If there are no isos on the mirror you've chosen like kernel.org (which is btw. not listed as an official Gentoo mirror anymore) read the file latest-iso.txt in the directory mentioned above on that mirror or choose another one. Then follow the instructions on https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Stage and you get the stage3 tarball. It's actually pretty easy.
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
Jc García composed on 2015-08-05 23:02 (UTC-0600): 2015-08-05 22:40 GMT-06:00 Felix Miata ocmposed: Fernando Rodriguez composed on 2015-08-05 23:46 (UTC-0400): http://lmgtfy.com/?q=download+gentoo Pages like that leads to are like Windows and Sourceforge software hosts where after muddling past licenses and assumption what one's looking for has anything to do with the puter used to search and script links autostarting LOL nothing like that, go ahead and find the beauty of lmgtfy. Are you sure you read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote? Pages like LMGTFY *leads to*, not LMGTFY. I was where that *leads to* yesterday and the day before while progressing generally through wiki.gentoo.org and www.gentoo.org futilely trying to reconcile what's available according to Distrowatch and what's sitting on Gentoo's mirrors. Also sourceforge is a pretty decent host for publishing open source software, it offers wikis, mailing list, code repositories, in fact various projects use it to develop open source, you might be talking about softonic. Sourceforge hosts a ton of good stuff, but its presentation is annoying enough that I habitually avoid it except as last resort, typically choosing to avoid needing whatever it hosts rather than suffer mousetype and redirects to slow mirrors. PD: I think you would be better using SystemRescueCD than the minimal cd, go ahead http://lmgtfy.com/?q=systemrescuecd+download Again not funny. I've been pointing people (directly) to systemrescuecd for years, but rarely need it myself because all my systems are very multiboot. I didn't want to boot live media in the first place, trying it only because of misunderstanding stage3 options using alternative boot. I'm in chroot in phase 4 now. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
[gentoo-user] 'tar xvjpf stage3-*.tar.bz2 --xattrs' failed with unknown option --xattrs
I booted x86_64 openSUSE 13.1 HD installation to try to begin Gentoo installation, beginning from Unpacking the stage tarball on https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Stage : # tar xvjpf /pub/stage3-sh4-20120307.tar.bz2 --xattrs Tar (GNU tar) v1.26 reported unrecognized option '--xattrs' Searching the tar man page for 'xattrs' produced no hits, and same for bzip2 man page. I rebooted into Debian Jessie instead to try again, and the same command with Gnu tar 1.27.1 completed, apparently normally. ??? -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [gentoo-user] Diagnosing file corruption
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 06/08/15 10:34, Bryan Gardiner wrote: After I make a fresh backup of my files, how would you recommend troubleshooting this? Run memtest or a hard drive tester? Since the files seemingly corrupted themselves after install without being touched, I'm highly suspicious of the hard drive, but would like to rule other things out (if say for example that CONFIG_X86_INTEL_PSTATE CPU clock booster is dangerous, or nvidia-drivers, or ...). Haven't checked for corruption on /home yet. One key question that doesn't seem to have been asked yet: have you performed an fsck on the partition? You could try booting to a livecd environment and running fsck -fc /dev/sdXY (adjusting for your device schema accordingly) on your apparently failing partition(s) to see if there is a filesystem corruption... - -- wraeth wra...@wraeth.id.au GnuPG Key: B2D9F759 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlXCv7kACgkQXcRKerLZ91npQwD/U41L/qmK8g7d0bWx6tR3SxbW 4bGheAvX3lWJvgMnG9QA/AuO7wnaKTcWeqoT7c+R7e8UHaaOfwaoS1w2J2hGVINJ =Ykkl -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] Configuring hostapd
On Wed, 2015-08-05 at 01:00 -0400, Fernando Rodriguez wrote: On Tuesday, August 04, 2015 8:18:43 PM Cor Legemaat wrote: On Sun, 2015-08-02 at 19:56 -0400, Fernando Rodriguez wrote: On Sunday, August 02, 2015 11:12:07 PM Mick wrote: On Sunday 02 Aug 2015 22:04:41 Fernando Rodriguez wrote: On Sunday, August 02, 2015 1:29:50 PM Mick wrote: On Sunday 02 Aug 2015 01:50:21 Fernando Rodriguez wrote: Hello, After installing hostapd I can successfully connect to the AP, I can get DHCP from it, but I cannot access the network through it (neither lan or internet). This sounds like a (network) routing problem, rather than a hostapd issue. It looks like that, but if I stop iptables completely on the router all unicast traffic still works in the lan (both wired and through an external AP), so if I connect to the hostapd AP with iptables off, shouldn't I at the very least be able to ping the wireless interface on the router? I also tried with only the following rule which enables internet access to all wired workstations and through external AP: iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o enp0s8 -j MASQUERADE You should probably specify the local subnet, so that multicast packets are not sent out to the Internet, e.g.: iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o enp0s8 -s 192.168.1.0/24 ! -d 192.168.1.0/24 -j MASQUERADE (Change 192.168.1.0/24 to suit your LAN subnet) I'm not actually using that rule except as a minimal setup for troubleshooting this issue. My actual rules do specify the subnet. Also have you enabled ip forwarding in your kernel: sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1 Yes, it is an existing router that works perfectly except for the hostapd AP. My current setup is as follows: Internet - Gentoo Router - Switch - AP Where AP is a wifi router with routing features disabled. Never had problems with it. Now I installed hostapd on Gentoo Router and everything else still works fine except when I connect to the hostapd AP. Even with only that minimal iptable rule or no rules at all. Thanks, Probably /dev/random depleated, try enable your hardware rng or sys- apps/haveged test with `cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail` Regards: Cor Thanks. II did get an error about depleted entropy at some point when starting hostapd but I went ahead and installed haveged and it still doesn't work. It doesn't even work when configured as an open AP. I checked the kernel config and I had VLAN support disabled. I've rebuilt it but can't reboot right now. Maybe it's required even though I'm not using VLANs? Is there an IP configured on the interface or the bridge of that interface? Can you ping your gateway? If I'm correct dhcp uses broadcast but you need a valid gateway IP switchable on mac layer. Does it stay connected? I have a problem with a link between hostapd and a mikrotik device on 802.11a where I needed to patch hostapd to get it to stay connected. But that should show in hostapd debug logs. Mine is still running on hostapd-2.3 because if I update and screw it my internet is broken, if that's your problem I will search for my notes and mail it. Regards: Cor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
[gentoo-user] Re: make.conf bindist
Rich Freeman rich0 at gentoo.org writes: So, set it per your preference. Since the stage3 was built with USE=bindist it sets it by default, and that is the safer preference in any case. License-purists might prefer to leave it this way and that gives you an experience similar to debian main repository, etc. All good to know. thx, James
[gentoo-user] Diagnosing file corruption
Hello list, On my most recent update, I had some build failures that led me to find that some files on my root partition have been corrupted. This is a new Asus N550JK laptop, a mostly-stable amd64 install with gentoo-sources-4.0.5 and ext4-root-in-LVM-in-LUKS-on-HDD, and Debian lives in there too (no problems showed up verifying Debian's packages; I installed Debian on Jul 1 and used it for a week before getting time to set up Gentoo). These are the package merge times, package names, and files that I found to be corrupted via qcheck (there were also a couple Python headers that I fixed by rebuilding). They appear to be filled with random data. The binpkg contents in /usr/portage/packages are okay, so I don't know when the files were corrupted; their mtimes haven't been updated since the packages were installed. Thu-Jul-30-22:40:23-2015 app-arch/p7zip-9.20.1-r5 /usr/lib64/p7zip/Lang/va.txt Thu-Jul-30-22:40:23-2015 app-arch/p7zip-9.20.1-r5 /usr/lib64/p7zip/help/cmdline/switches/large_pages.htm Sun-Jul-19-22:34:30-2015 dev-libs/libzip-1.0.1 /usr/share/man/man3/zip_error_get_sys_type.3.bz2 Sun-Jul-26-22:35:28-2015 dev-python/pygments-2.0.1-r1 /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/pygments/styles/pastie.pyc Wed-Jul-08-23:34:56-2015 media-libs/tiff-4.0.3-r6 /usr/share/man/man3/TIFFGetField.3tiff.bz2 Thu-Jul-30-10:05:31-2015 sci-mathematics/scilab-5.5.2 /usr/share/scilab/modules/compatibility_functions/macros/%b_l_s.bin -(from-stage3-on-Jul-8)- sys-apps/acl-2.2.52-r1 /usr/share/man/man3/acl_set_file.3.bz2 I haven't had any unclean shutdowns, it looks like OpenRC is unmounting things cleanly on shutdown, and suspend appears to work fine. After I make a fresh backup of my files, how would you recommend troubleshooting this? Run memtest or a hard drive tester? Since the files seemingly corrupted themselves after install without being touched, I'm highly suspicious of the hard drive, but would like to rule other things out (if say for example that CONFIG_X86_INTEL_PSTATE CPU clock booster is dangerous, or nvidia-drivers, or ...). Haven't checked for corruption on /home yet. This is the disk: *-disk description: ATA Disk product: ST1000LM024 HN-M vendor: Seagate physical id: 0.0.0 bus info: scsi@4:0.0.0 logical name: /dev/sda version: 0001 size: 931GiB (1TB) capabilities: gpt-1.00 partitioned partitioned:gpt configuration: ansiversion=5 guid=---- sectorsize=4096 Thanks for any help you can provide, Bryan signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-224 Look out for new networking behavior [FIXED]
On Wednesday, August 05, 2015 12:47:58 PM Alan McKinnon wrote: Much of what makes programming work has been dumbed down in recent years so that employable persons without imagination[1] can have jobs and do something useful. I'm reminded of an old saw about PHP: It may be that in recent years the trend has made it to the FOSS community, but I'd say it goes to the mid to early 90s with Microsoft's Visual IDEs. By the late 90s you could write a Windows GUI application in VisualBasic 6 mostly by drag and drop on the visual designer. With Visual Studio .NET in 2000/1 your could do it for a web application (ASP.NET) as well and you could design a database driven web app without writing a single line of code. In VS2008 they came up with a designer where you write the program by dragging blocks into a flowchart[1]. These tools are nice (at least the ones for GUI apps). I wish we had similar tools of the same quality in the FOSS world. The problem is that you'll get programmers that only know how to drag and drop and when it comes to the 10% of the program that needs to be coded they do a horrible job. 1. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg983474%28v=vs.110%29.aspx -- Fernando Rodriguez
