Re: [Gimp-user] Very few of my posts show on the list...

[pcg]

On Wed, May 25, 2005 at 01:36:09PM +0200, Michael Schumacher <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'ts not that uncommon for a mailing list to have a queue time of one or two
> days.
> 
> > And even weeks...
> 
> This, however, can't be considered normal. IIRC, the mailing list system is
> slow, but not that slow. Manish Singh should be able to provide details
> about it (Carol, do you know anything per chance?)

A possible reason is that mails with different From: addresses get held
for moderation but nobody does moderation (at least, all my mails that had
a different From: address than the one subscribed never reached the lists,
and I don't assume they have all been deleted by the moderator).

So make sure you use the same From: that you used to subscribe (could be
envelope-form, but I doubt that).

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Re: [Gimp-user] lossless jpeg transformations

[pcg]

On Thu, Feb 17, 2005 at 06:02:31PM +0200, Alexander Rabtchevich <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Could it be done via additional menu item: open for the lossless 
> transformations with only few operations active? The operation itself 
> has sense for digital images with portrait orientation. It would be nice 
> to store the original images without data loss but with corrected 
> orientation.

I think it makes very little sense to put this into the gimp. The extra work
is IMHO just not worth it, a specialized extra application would be more
useful.

Or a plug-in. The number of (useful, lossless) operations that can be done
on jpegs is very limited.

> By the way, I'm just curious, is it possible to apply different jpeg 
> settings to the different parts of an image?

Yes, you can vary quantizazion factors, but i don't think the jpeg library
can handle that. The best you can do with respect to such tricks is
to use scan scripts to achieve some effects, for example, the image
at URL has the monochrome
parts first which has the effect of first showing the grayscale image on
slow-enough connections.

> mean if the jpg image haven't undergo transformations affected the whole 
> image, the unaffected parts of the image could be saved as the original 
> compressed data without recompression (at least beyond adjacent points). 
> These pixels could be obtained by the simple comparison with the 
> original file.

That would be easy iff the underlying jpeg library supports it, and could
be limited to the jpeg plug-in. However, if you only use the ijg jpeg
library and take care of not changing the quantization factors you will
see that the pixels will already not change, i.e. there will be losless
compression.

So there is probably little demand for that. It would be far more useful
to have a way of knowing the quality the file was saved with (by the ijg
library) so it can be saved with the same quantizazion factor again, if
possible (i.e. as long as you use the same library to compres/decompress
the file).

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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP RENAMED and sold on eBay

[pcg]

On Sat, Feb 12, 2005 at 11:45:13AM +0100, Marc Lehmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> "free" refers to the terms that source code is distributed at no extra
> charge and with full modification rights, not to the actual price.

Actually, the GPL FAQ says:

 Does the GPL allow me to charge a fee for downloading the program
 from my site?

 Yes. You can charge any fee you wish for distributing a copy of the
 program. If you distribute binaries by download, you must provide
 "equivalent access" to download the source--therefore, the fee to
 download source may not be greater than the fee to download the
 binary.

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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP RENAMED and sold on eBay

[pcg]

On Sat, Feb 12, 2005 at 05:59:29PM +0800, steve hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> You will be pleased to know the GIMP is making handsome profits for this 
> eBay pirate with no reference to the real name:

It might shock you, but it's completey legal, at least in most jurisdictions.

The (GPL) license puts some requirements on distribution, but you don't
have to mention the terms in the advertising for it, nor must it be
distributed for free.

"free" refers to the terms that source code is distributed at no extra
charge and with full modification rights, not to the actual price.

(see the GPL FAQ at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html for more info)

It is possible that those two fail to fulfill the licensing requirements,
but to know that you must buy the software and check.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Re: [Gimp-web] Perlotine for Windows?

[pcg]

On Sun, Feb 06, 2005 at 01:13:51AM -0800, Carol Spears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 06, 2005 at 09:55:16AM +0100,  Marc A. Lehmann  wrote:
> > On Sat, Feb 05, 2005 at 10:32:06PM -0800, Carol Spears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > to do it in a was compatible to gimp.
> > 
> okay.  and i responded to the wrong list.
> 
> other than all of that, i was correct that it was a very nice exchange
> between developers way back when.

Well, indeed, I have some fond memories in this area (also the very
productive session with Hans Breuer :). However, it seems the general mood
of the mailinglists hasn't improved much since I have escaped.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Re: [Gimp-web] Perlotine for Windows?

[pcg]

On Sat, Feb 05, 2005 at 10:32:06PM -0800, Carol Spears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> first the gimptoolkit needs to work in perl on windows and then gimp
> needs to work there.  sorry.

the gimptoolkit works for years now, and so does gimp-perl, e.g. together
with the cygwin-gimp.

The problem is that the "standard" gimp distribution for windows is
compiled "natively" (which is a fuzzy term, I know), and the people who
compile it don't know how to build perl natively (neither do I), as perl
needs to be binary-compatible with gimp to be able to link against it's
libraries. And people who know how to compile Gtk2 or perl don't know how
to do it in a was compatible to gimp.

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Re: [Gimp-user] kerning

[pcg]

On Tue, Sep 07, 2004 at 07:16:53PM +0200, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > As it works in coreldraw, inkscape or other tool.
> > Again:
> > designer's work is making documents with correct
> > kerning pairs, so manual kerning is the job of
> > designer's tool (here it is gimp).
> 
> We don't disagree at all except that I think that you are using the
> term "kerning" wrongly. What you are asking for is a way to manually
> adjust letter spacing between individual glyphs. Kerning however is a
> corrective term for letter spacing that is stored in the font. If you

I think one misconception in this disucssion is that font-kerning would be
adequate for typographical work.

This is not the case. Even if you can edit the font, the result will not
always look good at all sizes, rotations etc., and manual adjustment is
often required (font technology is not optimized for large letters often
used in graphics, posters etc.).

> adjust the distance between adjacent glyphs in the text in order to
> achieve typographical effects (or even to correct incorrect or missing
> kerning), this isn't called kerning.

It is called kerning: he did ask for a way to adjust letter pair spacing
and to save this info for later use.

I think that this isn't provided by common font formats to the extent
sometimes required for really high quality work. I do not think that the
kerning table he asked for should be automatically applied to all sizes of
that font (but might be wrong).

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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP installation on Solaris

[pcg]

On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 10:08:30AM +0100, Colin Bannister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I've got further with installation of GIMP 2 on Solaris, but have hit
> a problem in the Gtk installation, message included below.
> 
> Once again, is anyone using GIMP 2 on Solaris ?

I have no idea :)

However, regarding this problem:

> gtkimcontextxim.c:67: parse error before "XICCallback"

The X11 headers on solaris specify the wrong prototype for XIMCallbacks
and XICCallbacks. Working around that issue is somewhat ugly.

It's quite possible that gtk+ doesn't have such workarounds in place
(after all, it's the solaris header files which are broken).

You might try using the X11 header files from xfree86 or x.org, they should
work. You can also look around on google, as this is a common problem on
solaris.

It could of course be sth. else, but this has bitten me a number of times
when adding x input support to applications.

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Re: [Gimp-user] tiff and lzw compression

[pcg]

On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 11:14:38AM -0300, "Joao S. O. Bueno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Is there any reason for this, i.e.:
> > - Is tif/lzw compression excluded from gimp or only from the debian
> >   build?
> 
> only from de debian build.

(some others, too, what you meant was "not from the original sources").

> they say it hasn't expired in certains countries (not USA) yet. 
> Anyway, you can either - install the TIFF and GIOF plug-ins from the "non 
> free" or "non us" repository (I am not a debian man), build the Gimp yourself 
> from the sources in gimp.org, or contact your favorite debian gimp packager. 

The only package that might help is gimp-nonfree, but it only contains
the gif-plug-in. The tiff plug-in is part of the standard gimp package.

If it doesn't do lzw while the original gimp does lzw then you should
report it as a bug against the gimp package (apt-get install reportbug;
reportbug gimp) and explain why a lzw-enabled plug-in should become part
of gimp-nonfree.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Environment settings & big images

[pcg]

On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 01:50:39PM +1000, David Burren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > i am curious.  do you think that if the adobe geniuses could make their
> > software compile on linux, if it would slow it down.
> 
> No.  In fact they've got it to compile on a Unix (ie. MacOS X) and

Slightly off-topic, because it relates to photoshop and MacOS X: MacOS
X is rather far away from unix (or even posix), and, while the X Window
System is not officially "unix", it's basically the GUI standard on unix.

So, as a matter of fact and a matter of expectancy, they didn't get it to
compile on a unix by porting it to macos x.

Still, darwin supports a large subset of posix and unix, but when
developing apps for it, you don't have to use it, and I suspect that adobe
didn't.

> it runs great.  I don't believe it's inherent in the OS that the
> application is running on.  I do think that Photoshop currently
> does a better job at managing its memory resources, but that's at
> the appliction level.

That could well be true. Unfortunately, it has been difficult so far to
actually measure this. There are reports from people claiming photoshop
is much faster, and reports that photoshop is slower, or that it depends
on the case.

I experimented wiht photoshop about 2 years ago, and found it quite a
bit less responsive on large images than gimp on gnu/linux on the same
machine.

One possible reason for the perceived problems could be that gimp requires
more tile cache to work efficiently than photoshop (especially multiple
undo steps cost a lot of memory), and by default the tile cache size is
conservative.

However, more exact and espeiclaly reproducible reports are needed to
find out wether this is the case, or under what circumstances gimp gets
slower.

> My observations about memory consumption behaviour between the Gimp
> and Photoshop have been coincidental to that.  It's not the reason
> I started using Photoshop, but it's a pleasant side-benefit.

These were certainly very interesting. Also, gimp should certainly not
grow unbounded. Maybe you are just hitting a bug somewhere?

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[Gimp-user] ID nvnv... thanks

[pcg]

Yours ID chigeck
--
Thank 

<>
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Re: [Gimp-user] "Squaring up" an Image - Perspective Transform Changes Sizes

[pcg]

On Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 12:43:18PM -0700, Steve Strobel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I tried using the perspective transform to adjust the corners of the image so the 
> section lines would be horizontal and vertical.

That's actually correctly doing what the perspective transform is doing
(try to imagine a plane with rectangles on it, in an angle towards you).

From what you are writing, I'd say he shearing transform is *exactly*
what you need, so what kind of problems are you facing when using a shear
transform?

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[Gimp-user] Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Alternative zoom algorithm

[pcg]

On Sat, Jan 17, 2004 at 05:24:51PM +0100, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] ( Marc) (A.) (Lehmann )> writes:
> 
> > Get used to it, that's how gimp-developer works :(
> 
> Marc, your comment is highly inappropriate.

Eh, really? Yes, maybe I should have said "that's how gimp developers
work", which would be more approriate.

> discussion on #gimp and #gimp is IRC and not gimp-developer

The discussion took partly place here also, so please take your dogs back
and complain elsewhere about appropriateness.

> you haven't been around on #gimp when this conversation took place,

Well, the discussion here was quite similar (although on #irc it seems to
have been worse, which is not surprising to me, many people on #gimp are
rather bigheaded and aggressive, much more so than on gimp-developer).

> you are definitely not in the position to make such a comment.

Oh! I definitely am, having had many similar experiences on #gimp (and few
here). However, may I ask you why you think you are in a position to judge
this better? I don't think you are. You are welcome to drag this topic out
again as I am sure you will do because you think you are something better,
but I will stop going down to that level right now.

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[Gimp-user] Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Alternative zoom algorithm

[pcg]

On Sat, Jan 17, 2004 at 01:26:09PM +0100, GSR - FR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> what people is used to or the levels for typical images and finaly get
> my patch encouragingly classified as evil, I think I will stop wasting
> time and keep my ideas and suggestions to myself.

Get used to it, that's how gimp-developer works :(

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Re: [Gimp-user] ESC for cancel in full-screen mode

[pcg]

On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 04:12:10PM -0600, Eric Pierce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> However, would you consider removing ESC as a binding to pop you out of
> full-screen mode?  I think F11 is a sufficient (and common) toggle for

Well, ESC has a very low probability of being remapped by e.g. a window
manager. F11 is far more often mapped to some wm functionality.

And the basic problem with your approach that I see is that ESC has the
perfect meaning for going out of fullscreen mode. It's the thing users
naturally try. F11 is about the last key users will try when they want
to get out of full-screen mode.

This is important for fullscreen mode because fullscreen mode is often
very surprising to users, and they might want to get out.

> What does anyone else think?

At least I think it's not perfect that esc cancels both, but esc canceling
both is far preferable over using F11 for leaving fullscreen mode. Many
users at our instituta have mapped F11 to open a new shell window for
example (using the window manager) or move windows, so fullscreen mode
would turn out to be an unpleasant trap.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Re: GIMP at COMDEX

[pcg]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 10:34:07PM +0100, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > and reconfiguration, for example assign some F# keys to some Filters
> > that are going to be used a lot in a row, but probably not in next
> > work session or image.
> 
> I am fully aware of this since I use this feature myself. The menu
> editor I proposed should allow you to this almost as quick and a lot
> more convenient than it is now. We might even allow a shortcut for

I am guessing here, but it looks to me as if you are talking of two
different things: No menu editor will be "almost as quick" and "more
convinient" when it goes to dynamically reconfiguring shortcuts.

For example, when I use a filter twice in a row it usally gets a shift-f
shortcut assigned by me. No dialog can make that faster for me.

I guess there are three styles of usages:

- mnemonics (i rarely used them under windows, and never under unix)
- shortcuts relatively static (get used often by me)
- shortcuts, dynamic (get used often by me)

As you can see, I am not the mnemonics type, but I am also not the icon
type (if I had time I'd donate a text version of the toolbox :). Others
might have problems with dynamic shortcuts and need mnemonics to support
their style of work.

All that is well. And if my type is the absolue minority and people _do_
get confused by dynamic shortcuts (something I personally have never seen
evidence of, but I don't deny it's possible existence), then switching it
off by default is a sane decision.

Howwver, I think the disucssion in the past suffered from the "my style is
the only style" problem on all sides.

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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Perl Server under Xvfb

[pcg]

On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 12:14:40PM +0100, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Xvfb.  Additionally, I created two init.d scripts to automate the
> > start/stop of Xvfb and GIMP's Perl Server at start-up/shutdown.  Both
> > scripts work great when executed manually, but when actually power
> > cycling the system it only launches Xvfb and GIMP without the Perl
> > Server.
> 
> You could use GIMP-1.3, It doesn't any longer need an X-Server to run

Very true. If you still need 1.2, you could look for a timing problem
- Xvfb might take a while to start up. Also try to start it as late as
possible. And maybe you rely on env variables (PATH, HOME etc.) that are
not set when booting.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Speeding up printing ...

[pcg]

On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 01:16:57PM +, Dave selby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Since Debian compiles for a i386 & I have a PIII I have re-compiled 
> Gimp, cupsys-driver-gimpprint & libgimpprint1. To my supprise this has 
> made no difference.

You can expect a 3-20% performance increase even in good situations
only.

I don't know what the actual problem is, but if you have a high system
time, then maybe the kernel does polling when acessing your printer port,
which often costs a lot of cpu time.

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Re: [Gimp-user] jpeg quality

[pcg]

On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 10:44:28PM -0600, Timothy Jedlicka bonzopad <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 1. Is a setting of 1 truly equal to a lossless jpg?

No.

> 2. Is file size the only reason not to use quality=1. It still seems like a 
> bargain compared to tif file size.

I think so, too, but it's user-settable.

If you have a colelction of e.g. 200 pictures, it's a bargain to use
0.8 or 0.9, too... it all depends on the application and your personal
taste.

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Re: [Gimp-user] installing gimp-1.2.5-6mdk

[pcg]

On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 10:40:23AM +, david <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The second is proving trickier.  The second dependency is a perl file 
> called file::Slurp.  Last night I cpan'ed the file.  I thought 

No matter how often you download and install File::Slurp, rpm won't take
notice of that.

You would need a rpm of that perl module, which probably is somewhere near
the original rpm, or part of your distribution (mandrake?).

> not recognised.  So I thought sod-it and installed the gimp with 
> --nodeps.   It installed ok.  The gimp opened ok aswell.  But I wonder 
> if the gimp will function ok without file::Slurp?

If File::Slurp is installed gimp will use it. It's just that the rpm
insists on having a _rpm_ version of File::Slurp. If you install it
without rpm and override rpm using --nodeps all should be fine.

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[Gimp-user] [nq6@hotmail.com: contribution.]

[pcg]

I received this, and, since it's probably meant for a larger
forum, forwarded it to the gimp-user mailinglist,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Forwarded message from Nq6 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

Subject: contribution.
From: Nq6 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:54:05 -0300
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158

   I am to designer graphical and as using I can give my parcel of
   contribution.

1. Gimp must offer in the program something that it manages of
   shortcuts, where all the tools and the too much functions.
2. In the main menu of tools, if it must to pressing the one of them
   with the right button fast option of shortcut.
3. Gimp must more have optimized menus, that do not take much space
   of the screen and that they can be added to the too much menus.
4. Gimp must invest more in design of the tools and the proper
   appearance of the Gimp, it as graphical program has that to have
   an exemplary graphical interface.
5. The lack of shortcuts




   I wait contact, Yours truly Frederico Araújo Mendes Brazil
 _


   Original

   Sou designer gráfico e como usuário posso dar minha parcela de
   colaboração.


1. O gimp deve oferecer no programa algo que gerencie de atalhos,
   onde todas as ferramentas e as demais funções.
2. No menu principal de ferramentas, se deve ao apertar uma delas com
   o botão direito a opção rápida de atalho.
3. O gimp deve ter menus mais otimizados, que não tomem muito espaço
   da tela e que possam ser agregados aos demais menus.
4. O gimp devem investir mais no design das ferramentas e do próprio
   visual do  Gimp, ele como programa gráfico tem que ter uma
   interface gráfica exemplar.
5. A falta de atalhos das ferramentas principais para um profissional
   chega a ser irritante.


   Aguardo contato,

   Atenciosamente

   Frederico Araújo Mendes
   Brasil

- End forwarded message -

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Re: [Gimp-user] Re: CinePaint and Film Gimp

[pcg]

On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 10:33:39AM -0500, "Michael J. Hammel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 20:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > We should also consider that xfree86 currently falls aparts exactly
> > because of the board (and wrecks for quite some time already). 
> 
> Interesting, if clouded, view of this situation.

I think I have a very clear view of the innards of xfree86.

> The board (which is actually made up of the core developers)

Was. Just ask them. The president abused his unlimited power to silence
everybody and expell most core developers from the board.

> letting fresh air into the process.  The board remains.  XFree86
> remains.  Advances continue.  Exactly where has XFree86 fallen apart?

Well, I can't argue with you, sicne you are supposing something about the
future, on which I disagree. xfree86 is falling apart because developers
leave it and no fresh blood is joining.

> Did you discuss your opinion with any of the core developers or are you
> just stating the opinion without gathering any facts on the situation
> first?

As a matter of fact I discussed it with quite a few current and previous
board members and core developers. I think it's pretty representative.
XFree86 might be somewhat exceptional, as a single person holds all the
power, but if you look around, that is how boards work usually.

> And some live fine with them.  KDE, GNOME and Debian come to mind.  They
> don't appear to be falling apart either having established definitive
> goals, target audiences, rules for interaction with outside vendors or
> even *gasp* establishing release schedules.

However, there is a distinctive difference there: There is no need to
negotiate with the industry. And since this is your original idea behind a
board, these boards are pretty irrelevant.

Even worse, you could at least have made your homework and look wether
these projects even have a board. That's not the case, so I guess your
agrument is (again) not backed up by facts. It doesn't help you to accuse
me of not basing my opinions on fact, and I think that's pretty low of
you.

> > GCC (one of the largest free
> > software projects) did fine, too, for a very long time. 
> 
> Indeed it has.  Of course, it does have the Free Software Foundation
> (and no less than Stallman himself) as a guiding force behind it.  But I

That's just plain bullshit (sorry, but what are you trying to achieve
with spreading such misinformation??). It's you who is making claims that
are badly researched and shed a bad light on what you say. The "guiding
force" behind gcc is purely the developer community. Even if you take the
steering committee (which has "power" and says it "guides"), it only does
so when the community can't make a decision. Neither of these is the FSF.

The FSF has absolute power over gcc (the name), but as history has shown,
it doesn't have power over gcc (the project). The current state of gcc is
*exactly* the result of a board (of the FSF in this case) trying to force
decisions.

> guess that doesn't count as a "board" in your opinion.

Of course not, because it isn't a board. That is independend of my
opinion, but a fact.

Why do you get this personal?

[apache]
> If by this you mean the board doesn't try to snatch control away from
> the developers then that's probably true.  

That's what I meant, yes.

> > Boards are a concept alien to free software projects, since boards
> > work like "we decide, you do the work", which might work in corporate
> > structures, but doesn't work at all in free software environments.
> 
> You see the world as black and white, Marc.  Not all boards are so
> manipulative.

Well, if a board doesn't have any power, there is no need to create one in
the first place. It serves no purpose if it cannot do anything.

> But there are many projects who could use an authoritative voice to keep
> the project moving.

That is exactly the problem: an authoritative voice. Gimp already has
authoritative voices.

If your assumption is that authoritative voices and boards are the same
thing, then you are mistaken. And if you think that boards and auth.
voices are not the same thing, then it has nothing to do with this
discussion.

In other words: boards are not necessarily autoritative voices, and you
don't need boards to have that. What _are_ your arguments for such an
institution?

> for GNOME, and that project (even without a board, but with an
> authoritative figure at its helm) has done quite well.

So that proves that boards aren't necessary, right? Boards are not even
necessarily productive for a project.

> "doesn't work at all in free software environments" isn't even close to
> the truth here.

Well, I disagree. The only counterexamples are boards without any power or
voice. I wouldn't oppose those and agree they work fine with free software
projects.

> You sound like you speak more from hate of anything that smells of
> authority than from research of the facts.

Obviously I did my hom

Re: [Gimp-user] Re: CinePaint and Film Gimp

[pcg]

On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 01:40:12PM -0700, Daniel Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >with as well - how to take a loosely organized group and work with
> >outside, commercial groups who have more strict rules for interaction. 
> >XFree86, Apache, and others all formed boards and/or non-profits to help
> >deal with the situation.  I believe its time the GIMP community
> >seriously considered this as well.
> > 
> >
> 
> it is not mearly being considered.  It is happening.

I disagree, and think both of you are not talking about the same thing.

I know a not-for-profit organization (with no rights to the gimp) is being
created, however, that is very far from "taking a loosely organized group
and work with commercial groups". The planned organization does not take
the gimp group to do anything, as far as I can see.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Re: CinePaint and Film Gimp

[pcg]

On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 03:09:32PM -0500, "Michael J. Hammel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> XFree86, Apache, and others all formed boards and/or non-profits to help
> deal with the situation.  I believe its time the GIMP community
> seriously considered this as well.

We should also consider that xfree86 currently falls aparts exactly
because of the board (and wrecks for quite some time already). And many
other projects live fine without boards, too. GCC (one of the largest free
software projects) did fine, too, for a very long time. Apache probably
has less problems because they try very hard not do decide things over the
heads of other people.

Boards are a concept alien to free software projects, since boards
work like "we decide, you do the work", which might work in corporate
structures, but doesn't work at all in free software environments.

Non-profit organizations are, on the other hand, often seperated from the
project itself (esp. for the Gimp, as the developers feel afaics strongly
against handing over the rights to the code to such an organization, which
means it would have no rights at all to the gimp).

Recently I hear a lot about "target audience" and "have to work with the
industry" and similar ideas.

In my opinion, this has exactly zero relevance. The question to ask is:
how would a board/non-profit-org help the _developers_. One can create
boards as much as one likes, this won't change nor create a single line of
code or code-change.

And if it doesn't help the people who write the code (e.g. by getting
specifications or the like), then I don't see why such a thing should be
founded in the first place.

So what are the benefits of a board for the developers? How would that
help them? How would such a board counter the frustration on the side of
developers that a board exists that has power but no obilgations? Where
does it get it's rights from? Who has to submit to it's decisions? How
is it elected (if at all)?

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Re: [Gimp-user] Webpage Help

[pcg]

On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 09:33:31PM -0400, Daniel Carrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Oh no, you missed the issue.  It was not about a whitespace, it was about 
> creating a NEWLINE.
> 
> There was a whole blank line BELOW the image.
> 
> Unless... a whitespace could somehow create that newline... maybe it 
> wrapped around?

Yupp. whitespace can be a new line, a space, or something else to
seperate, as the browser sees fit.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Webpage Help

[pcg]

On Mon, Aug 18, 2003 at 03:27:12PM -0400, Daniel Carrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Try putting it all on one (admittedly ugly) line with no extra spaces:
> > 
> 
> That's really weird... but it seems to work.

Actually, to reassure you all, that is totally correct, documented,
standardized and expected behaviour.

New lines _are_ whitespace. e.g.

   Hello,
   I am here.

will have space before the "I". No matter how many spaces/newlines/tabs
etc. you use, unless you are within pre or similar elements, it's a single
"whitespace" that seperates characters.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Simple Radial Lines

[pcg]

On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 07:00:53PM -0500, Eric Pierce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm not after circles.  I'm even lines radiating from the center.
> Did you see the gif link above?  Just like that minus the circle in the
> middle.

You could create a striped gradient fiurst and then use the gradient tool
in conical mode. Maybe there are better solutions, but this solution is
easily reusable :)

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Re: [Gimp-user] Writing gimp perl batch script

[pcg]

On Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 03:44:11PM -0500, Michael Dingwall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Subroutine Gimp::gimp_file_load redefined at /(path to Gimp.pm/Gimp.pm on line 
> 541

This is probably a bug in gimp-perl with the compatibility syntax. Could
you try to use object-oriented syntax, i.e.

   Gimp->file_image_load (...
   $img->active_drawable;
   $img->file_save (...);

and tell me wether that works? thx.

> however these warnings keep showing up.  I've tried the trace mechanism and it 
> crashes after the gimp_image_load statement.

Woaw. How does it crash (I can't reproduce that here)?

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Re: [Gimp-user] Scripting for resize

[pcg]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 06:14:53PM +0200, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I'm just new to script-fu and gimp. I was not aware scheme is used for
> >scripting in gimp. I loved that. :D Anyway, I've read the script-fu
> >part of the gimp manual. I have a directory tree with about 1000
> 
>  for i in '*.png'; do convert -sample 20x20 $i > small-$i; done

Sticking a "!" at the end of the "20x20" will actually do the job.

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Re: [Gimp-user] xaos and gimp animation

[pcg]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 02:08:05PM +0200, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > i need a script to convert x amount of png files into a single xcf
> > file, is that possible ?
> 
> Writing that script in Script-Fu or Gimp-Perl should be trivial.

It might also work to just use a current version of imagemagick and do:

   convert *.png anim.xcf

(maybe add some other switches to set fps etc.) or use another format
instead of .xcf and convetr it to xcf by load/save within the gimp.

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Re: [Gimp-user] CMYK (was: Diaoppearing freefonts)

[pcg]

On Mon, Jul 14, 2003 at 04:36:39PM +0200, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You are only making things worse if you convert from RGB to CMYK

Not really... people I talked to said they can perfectly handle that
(adjusting colours later in a layout program for example, or simply addign
a matching colour profile).

On the other hand, many layout programs simply treat files as CMYK, even
if they are RGB, which is a lot worse since it cannot be fixed easily.

Also, no information is being destroyed, since you had no colour profile
in RGB, the simple formula is a good as any other.

> would have long done. You should really let the printer do the
> conversion for you. Only the printer knows all the necessary details.

Unfortunately, the printer often can't or won't do that, since the
printer wants CMYK no matter what.

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Re: [Gimp-user] TIFF save - problem

[pcg]

On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 12:31:56PM +0200, Mariusz Sapinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  What surprises me is that among the 60 files i have to work on, i succeed 
> with more than 40, and then i've met the problem. Another problem is 
> that with the rest of the files, even if i choose "Save As" option, i 
> cannot really save. Some options are off (like jpg), others are not 
> (Tiff, uncompressed, as i understand), but if i save to BPM or Tiff
> i cannot export it to jpeg after (and jpeg are at the end of the road)...
> Maybe i'll try to scan the photos again to jpeg or so.

Either enter "filename.jpg" manually and use "use file extednsion", or
make sure you are working in Image=>Mode=>RGB mode, as you cnanot save
indexed images as JPEG.

(or your problem is something else, who knows, but the above is the most
common cause).

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Re: [Gimp-user] TIFF save - problem

[pcg]

On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 12:08:03PM +0200, Mariusz Sapinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "LZW compression in not available due to Unisys pattern enforcement"
> 
>  I have'n enforced any Unisys pattern? What's going on? How to repair it?

That should read "patent" instead of "pattern". I am not sure wether this
is a redhatism. In any case, LZW compression is likely affected by a
patent hold by unisys (which will expire this friday in the us, and in one
year in europe and japan), and thus either you get a license from unisys
(don't bother, too expensive), or get a version of gimp that allows LZW
and possibly commit crimes and and decapitated ;)

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Re: [Gimp-user] difficulties to compile

[pcg]

On Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 01:24:53AM -0700, A Guy Called Tyketto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> If you run ./configure --help, you'll see an option for --disable-perl. The 
> perl extentions for Gimp-Perl are enabled by default. so If you don't have 
> Gimp-Perl installed, ./configure will blow up. do a 

That, of course, doesn't make logical sense.. :)

It seems that the original poster has a broken PDL installation. If he
installed it from his distribution, he should check wether there are
other pdl packages that he needs to install. Also, if he uninstalls PDL
gimp-perl will built without pdl support. And lastly, --disable-perl is
the easiest way to avoid any problems, but then of course he won't have
gimp-perl.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Running Gimp through a rlogin

[pcg]

On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 05:00:42PM -0500, "Gebhart, Mark A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>installed; however, I can do a rlogin to a machine on the network that
>does have gimp. It freezes on my everytime I try to take the
>screenshot. Has anyone had luck doing a screenshot over a remote

What freezes? Where freezes it? Where do you start which application?
What do you mean by "freeze"?

In any case, I use rlogin a lot (wether you use rlogin or ssh does not
make a difference if you set your DISPLAY to not use x11-forwarding for
example), and gimp works fine on non-local displays, including making
screenshots.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Intelligent scaling

[pcg]

On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 12:58:12PM +0200, Matthias Brunner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> we have a lot of document scans, all sized 2432x3482 pixels, and 

and which colour depth?

> The problem is that the standard scale algorithm renders the document 
> unreadable (some text characters can still be recognised, others not 

is this because you are scaling in indexed mode maybe?
  
> Is there some "intelligent scaling process" in gimp which takes care 
> of text scans (keeping lines together, preventing distortion of 

I did a lot of scaling, and the gimp certainly works fine with this kind
of job, as long as you allow it to use grayscale and interpolation. It
also doesn't add distortion normally.
   
Putting up an example to look at somewhere might be helpful.

If the gimp indeed results in bad quality you might look into imagemagick,
which allows you to select the filter form (lanczos or mitchell are two
that are worth checking out).

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Re: [Gimp-user] TIFF File Resolution Change

[pcg]

On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 01:52:18AM -0600, Kevin Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think that perhaps this can be accomplished with ImageMagick, but I don't
> seem to be able to figure out the proper command line parameters.

Well, you can't do it with ImageMagick ;) It does read the image in,
and, since this is difficult in the general case, I doubt such a program
exists.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Commandline xcf->jpg converter

[pcg]

On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 12:29:19PM -0600, Scott Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I noticed ImageMagick now can read both xcf and psd files. But I saw a 
> couple problems:

You could try xcftopnm, which comes with gimp. Since it starts gimp to
do the job, it's quite slow, but it should work for any xcf the gimp can
read.

Use it like (man xcftopnm should work, too):

   xcf2pnm xxx.xcf | pnmtojpeg >xxx.jpg
   xcf2pnm xxx.xcf | convert pnm:- xxx.jpg

> - it failed on a xcf for me with "convert: Memory allocation failed 
> (top-conn.xcf)." I've got a gig of swap free, so this seems unlikely.

imagemagick is the biggets memory hog you'll ever see ;) You might want to
experiment with the -limit argument (man imagemagick), however, the limits
are per default unlimited, so this is very strange indeed and is probably
a bug in imagemagicks xcf-loader.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-Perl

[pcg]

On Thu, Dec 26, 2002 at 08:46:22PM -0600, Greg Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> problems.  It appears that someone already has the same issues I have
> with running Script-Fu from perl (just like the tutorials said I would),
> but I am wondering if it applies to just scheme based script fu, or
> plugins as well?

It applies to any script-fu plugin, and has (AFAIK) nothing to do with
perl.  It has worked from time to time, but most of the time, script-fu is
broken in one way or another when being called from oter plug-ins.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Script-Fu - Batch Mode Problem

[pcg]

On Thu, Dec 26, 2002 at 07:04:42PM -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >convert sourcefile -filter mitchell -geometry  destfile
> 
> ok,  I tried thisand I got an image that was not up to par with what can be
> done with Adobe's Image ready doing a similiar process.  However, with Gimp, I

Well, there are also other filters. Quadratic or Cubic should closely
emulate gimp's behaviour. But from the script I see that you are using
jpegs. I hope you are aware of the fact that jpegs can and do introduce
lots of pixel errors?

> Ok, if script-fu is not meant to be run from the command line without
> interactionthen why the batch mode option?

To run script-fu from the commandline. The fact that script-fu is broken
in lots of areas _currently_ does not mean it was designed to be broken ;)
OTOH, Simon Budig always explains to me that script-fu was not designed
for this kind of thing, and he knows a lot more about it.

> Based on the documentation I have seen, I should be able to call a script-fu
> function and everything should work.  That is not the case.

The script will (hopefully) enable some script-fu expert (not me) to
find the problem. Or maybe fix script-fu, if it really is the problem.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Gif support

[pcg]

On Mon, Dec 23, 2002 at 11:35:38AM -0500, PL O'Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Actually PNG does do animations and they are called MNG.

Actually PNG does NOT do animations, and it's not called MNG ;)

Both tiff and jpeg can store jpeg-like and losless images, they are still
different. MNG and PNG a much more similar, but still different file
format.

> have several thousand dollars lying around you want to use to pay the 
> GIF owners for using those on your site, PNG pretty much takes care of 
> everything now.

Yes, except animations, which, while an understandable decision, is
_probably_ the reason for the still widespread usage of GIF.

Also, you don't have to pay anything for GIF support, and nobody "owns"
it. The problem are lzw-compressed gifs, which are the most common.

Please, read my original post. It makes no sense arguing about sth. I
didn't say nor think myself :)

My original post stated a fact. You might not like it, I _do_ not like it,
it might not even be of practical consequences (who cares for minority
platforms), but all that doesn't change it.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Gif support

[pcg]

On Mon, Dec 23, 2002 at 11:23:38PM +1300, Thomi Richards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > The striking majority of browsers, not only IE on Windows. And PNG
> > can't do animations, which are very important. So GIF will need to
> > stay around for some time :(
> 
> which ones exactly? as stated before, mozilla, netscape (the later
> versions), konqueror, even dillo works with png's.

That's a useless game. You can count the number of browsers supporting PNG
with one or two hands. Obviously there exist many more browsers.

Basically, that follows the "all the world is windows and linux"-way of
thinking, which is just as bad as "all the world is ie"-way of thinking.

Even most versions of the browsers (netscape, konquerer, and my more like
links, opera etc.) you cited don't support PNG, or not properly. And
probably none of them support MNG.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Gif support

[pcg]

On Mon, Dec 23, 2002 at 01:35:58AM -0800, Joshua Thorin Messer 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Oh, wait when you wrote "Currently browsers do not support PNG
> widely enough to use PNG instead" you might have meant "Currently

The striking majority of browsers, not only IE on Windows. And PNG can't
do animations, which are very important. So GIF will need to stay around
for some time :(

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Re: [Gimp-user] FAQ answers

[pcg]

First of all, please don't quote such a long mail without replying to
it. Believe us, we _did_ reeceive the original mail, too ;)

On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 04:26:26PM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>> *)  How does the "Xtns/Script-Fu" menu differ from the "Script-Fu"
> pop-up
> >>> menu?
> 
> When I right-click on an image and get the context menu, there is a
> "Script-Fu" option at the bottom.  That is the "Script-Fu pop-up"  I was
> referring to.  :)

Well, they are completey different. Or, put another way:

The right-click-menu (image menu) contains operations/plug-ins that work
on the active/current image. The filters and script-fu entries use the
underlying image as one of their arguments.

The Xnts-menu (the whole toolbox, actually) contains effects and plug-ins
(and other operations) that work without images (for example, there is no
file/save). Most plug-ins in the toolbox or xtns-menu create new images.

As a sidenote, the fully artificial distinction between script-fu-plug-ins
and other plug-ins confuses a lot of users (the same is true for the xtns
menu. I fail to see why a user must memorize that a specific plug-in is
wirtten in C, Perl, or script-fu, just to _use_it). All of these should
just be moved to their correct location, ending this confusig double-life.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Re: New Gimp FAQ: Call for questions

[pcg]

On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 03:28:17PM -0500, Carol Spears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At what point is it better to use The GIMP for batch processing over
> Image Magick?

For one, whenever you want to interactively adjust sth.  ImageMagick is a
blind flight, with gimp you can more easily change parameters, retry etc..

Also, Gimp might have that "effect of the day" you really need. In this
case ImageMagick simply isn't an option. And the Gimp has _lots_ of
effects ;) The same is true for any script or function that is available
for the gimp but not ImageMagick.

Last not least, ImageMagick can be a memory hog and almost always is
extremely slow in everything. Gimp can be a lot faster, and when you have
to process 20,000+ images that might save a lot of hours.

> nicer than Image Magick.  I read from someone (jlbec on #gimp) that The
> GIMP hands saving as png much much better than Image Magick.  so i would

Well, we'd like to know in what respect ;)

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Re: [Gimp-user] Script-Fu - Batch Mode Problem

[pcg]

On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 07:35:36PM -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> image resizing from the command line.  I know that many of you out there are
> going to point out that ImageMagick will do what I am looking for. I have
> already gone down that path and the image quality of the scaled images is not up

Then you probably have done sth. wrong, as ImageMagick's algorithms are
way superior (and way slower ;) to the mere cubic interpolation gimp uses.

Are you sure you tried sth. like:

   convert sourcefile -filter mitchell -geometry  destfile

also, other filters than the mitchell filter (which is usually best) are
also worth a try, "cubic" for example should rather closely match gimp's
quality.

> The script takes in a height, width, beginning image and output image.  I pass
> it a 1 before all of that for non-interactive.  The script is designed to open

Well, I am no scirpt-fu expert, but I get a lot of mail that tells me that
scirpt-fu simply doesn't work noninteractively, or at leats not correctly,
or returns too earfly etc.. etc..

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Re: [Gimp-user] Re: CMYK separation

[pcg]

On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 10:53:39AM -1000, Denis McCauley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> tried it on a friend's computer and apart from CMYK conversion and print 
> preparation it has virtually nothing The Gimp can't do. In the end I bought 

Somebody please step forward and implement cheap CMYK seperation for
the .eps save filter. The biggest problem is that many printshops (er,
typesetters, actually) will treat RGB images as CMY0 which obviously
destroy them.

That's rather cost effective (one gets much without much effort, although
it's still missing too much).

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Re: [Gimp-user] Scripted Gimp Protocol 1 error

[pcg]

On Wed, Apr 17, 2002 at 12:03:14AM +, As Signed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Could anyone please help me get a perl script invoked from HTML 
> via the local server run Gimp? 

Run the script with -v to see gimp's error message. Protocol error 1 most
probably means that gimp couldn't start. Most probably you don't have a
valid DISPLAY in your environment.

>Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: 

Looks very much so. Set DISPLAY to a valid display and gimp will start.

>... the above 2 are less valuable as I DON'T want display.

Well, but gimp does ;)

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Re: [Gimp-user] spam

[pcg]

On Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 07:04:32PM -0500, Geoffrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I think spam filtering is basically an end-user problem. There is no way
> > to make lists spam-free, so "not large" seems fine to me.
> 
> You can, by only permitting subscribers to post to the list, which many
> lists do these days..

Which I consider counter-productive. Forcing users to subscribe to a
mailinglist just to be able to post doesn'z seem right (for mayn, not all,
mailinglists).

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Re: [Gimp-user] spam

[pcg]

On Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 04:14:02PM -0500, John Culleton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can someone provide a service to this list of filtering out the spam? the 
> volume is not large but it is annoying.  My other lists seem spam-free. 

I think spam filtering is basically an end-user problem. There is no way
to make lists spam-free, so "not large" seems fine to me.

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Re: [Gimp-user] pdb error and perl-fu'ing

[pcg]

On Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 08:20:19PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> some more perl-fu'ing (is there a specific perl-fu mailinglist?)

yes, see gimp.pages.de for details.

> Is there anyway to test if a given is a valid gimp image file?

no, and gimp can crash if you feed it garbage. not that often anymore but
it can still happen.

> advanced, how do you trap pdb-errors?

just like any other perl exception, using eval { xxx }.

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