Re: [GNC] Using GnuCash with charity restricted and unrestricted funds, advice wanted
Both Michael & user 'flywire' have offered the 'how to do that' answer. Michael's answer involves out-of-the box reports that are further manipulated outside of GnuCash to achieve the desired end result, using the standard method of entering transactions. (this is quite normal for anything but the most basic of reporting needs) Flywire's answer involves a custom report that someone else was kind enough to craft, that you have to add to GnuCash yourself first and then use 'tags' in your transactions for your extra reporting dimension. But in both cases, none of us know what the legal requirements of your jurisdiction are. We can make suggestions and offer general guesses based on the reasoning of what the term 'restricted funds' means with respect to where they belong in the account tree, but if your accountant or legal counsel tell you otherwise, you have to follow what *they* tell you, not take the suggestions here. If you are not sure how to follow *their* advice using GnuCash, we can probably help, or at least suggest that you may have to do some finishing work on your reports with other software. Regards, Adrien On 5/27/24 8:12 AM, Edward Bainton wrote: You have to know that first, then ask, "How do I accomplish this using GnuCash?" Think of funds accounting as different colours of money. Every account and every category can include any colour of money. I need the gross figure for each account and category, the figure for each account and category broken out into the colours of money that it’s comprised of, and I need to report on the overall financial position and movements in any given period of each colour of money, detailing which accounts and categories it’s comprised of. How do I accomplish this using GnuCash? ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Using GnuCash with charity restricted and unrestricted funds, advice wanted
On 5/27/2024 9:12 AM, Edward Bainton wrote: How about this: You have to know that first, then ask, "How do I accomplish this using GnuCash?" Think of funds accounting as different colours of money. Every account and every category can include any colour of money. I need the gross figure for each account and category, the figure for each account and category broken out into the colours of money that it’s comprised of, and I need to report on the overall financial position and movements in any given period of each colour of money, detailing which accounts and categories it’s comprised of. How do I accomplish this using GnuCash? By not thinking about colors of money? It is fair to ask us "How can I use gnucash to store the financial transactions so that the data can be extracted to produce the reports that I will need?" OK to ask us "Can I produce these reports directly out of gnucash?" as long as you accept the possibility of "No, but you will be able to produce reports that when exported, will allow you you to combine/extract to produce the final reports" NOT FAIR to ask "can I do it it THIS WAY using concepts outside of standard double entry bookkeeping. For example, if I understand what you are asking for: There is an expense (call it X) for which restricted funds may be used OR non-restricted funds may be used (let's say the restricted funds for X have run out). You want to have a SINGLE account "expense X" in which the transactions using restricted funds are "colored A" and those paid by non-restricted funds "colored B". And then on a report being able to show the total "colored A". Yes? << I'm a retired senior business analyst; that's how we work, asking the client questions >> Well gnucash doesn't do "colors", just debits and credits. You could have an expense account "expense X paid both ways" and under that child accounts "expense X paid by restricted funds" and "expense X paid by non-restricted funds" << those names just to make clear what we are talking about >> And gnucash will certainly allow you to use account selection/exclusion so that in a report of where you only wanted that part of expense X that was paid using restricted funds you could do that. Again, wearing my old analyst hat, what are the reports you will need to be able to produce? What has to be on them? Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Using GnuCash with charity restricted and unrestricted funds, advice wanted
How about this: > You have to know that first, then ask, "How do I accomplish this using GnuCash?" Think of funds accounting as different colours of money. Every account and every category can include any colour of money. I need the gross figure for each account and category, the figure for each account and category broken out into the colours of money that it’s comprised of, and I need to report on the overall financial position and movements in any given period of each colour of money, detailing which accounts and categories it’s comprised of. How do I accomplish this using GnuCash? On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 05:22, Adrien Monteleone < adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote: > This is a perfect example of why this list is not the place for > accounting advice. > > We can't answer, "What should I do?" > > You have to know that first, then ask, "How do I accomplish this using > GnuCash?" > > In many cases, the answer is, "The same way you'd do so with Pen & > Paper." (sans the actual pen and paper of course) > > At best, folks here can offer generalizations. Exact implementation > absolutely *must* be done in consultation with local professionals > versed in the laws of your jurisdiction if your issue is anything but > mere personal musings, and in any case where you have any official duty > or legal obligation. > > Regards, > Adrien > > On 5/26/24 12:37 PM, Michael Hendry wrote: > > I was keen to keep track of restricted funds within GC in a way which > would make unspent restricted income persist as restricted funds beyond the > year end, and you suggested the use of a Liability account for this purpose, > > > > Unfortunately, the accountant who examines our accounts before > submission to OSCR (the Scottish Charities Regulator) advised that this > isn’t an acceptable way to handle restricted funds in the UK. > > > > The problem with using the income accounts (as below) for the various > types of Income, is that the money not spent (in our case on bursaries for > musicians who wouldn’t otherwise be able to attend our courses) doesn’t > persist in the that account after the year end the way a liability would. A > collection at the final-day concert which is advertised as being destined > for use as bursaries won’t be spent until the next year’s course. > > > > On the other hand, if income received for restricted donations is > accounted for in this way, and funds paid out as bursaries are also > accounted for in a separate expense account it should be easy enough to > keep a year-on-year tally of the remaining restricted funds. In practice, > we probably spend more than we receive on bursaries each year, but a church > roof might be a longer-term job. > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Using GnuCash with charity restricted and unrestricted funds, advice wanted
This is a perfect example of why this list is not the place for accounting advice. We can't answer, "What should I do?" You have to know that first, then ask, "How do I accomplish this using GnuCash?" In many cases, the answer is, "The same way you'd do so with Pen & Paper." (sans the actual pen and paper of course) At best, folks here can offer generalizations. Exact implementation absolutely *must* be done in consultation with local professionals versed in the laws of your jurisdiction if your issue is anything but mere personal musings, and in any case where you have any official duty or legal obligation. Regards, Adrien On 5/26/24 12:37 PM, Michael Hendry wrote: I was keen to keep track of restricted funds within GC in a way which would make unspent restricted income persist as restricted funds beyond the year end, and you suggested the use of a Liability account for this purpose, Unfortunately, the accountant who examines our accounts before submission to OSCR (the Scottish Charities Regulator) advised that this isn’t an acceptable way to handle restricted funds in the UK. The problem with using the income accounts (as below) for the various types of Income, is that the money not spent (in our case on bursaries for musicians who wouldn’t otherwise be able to attend our courses) doesn’t persist in the that account after the year end the way a liability would. A collection at the final-day concert which is advertised as being destined for use as bursaries won’t be spent until the next year’s course. On the other hand, if income received for restricted donations is accounted for in this way, and funds paid out as bursaries are also accounted for in a separate expense account it should be easy enough to keep a year-on-year tally of the remaining restricted funds. In practice, we probably spend more than we receive on bursaries each year, but a church roof might be a longer-term job. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Using GnuCash with charity restricted and unrestricted funds, advice wanted
The issue UK charity funds accounting presents is that the funds represent a “third dimension” beyond Dr/Cr: every account, and every category, must be subdivided into as many restricted funds as the organisation has (strictly n + 1, since there is almost invariably an unrestricted fund, too). If there really are only two funds, per OP’s parish council query, then mirroring the chart of accounts so every account exists in two versions may be feasible. But restricted funds have a habit of multiplying like rabbits, and can appear when least expected, so this is not a future-proof solution. To me the currency tag workaround seems an efficient solution (if a somewhat inelegant one). Anyone have lived experience of it? Sent from my mobile device with apologies for brevity. On Sun, 26 May 2024 at 19:48, Michael or Penny Novack < stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote: > On 5/26/2024 1:37 PM, Michael Hendry wrote: > > Hi, Michael, > > > > We’ve corresponded about this in the past. > > > > I was keen to keep track of restricted funds within GC in a way which > > would make unspent restricted income persist as restricted funds > > beyond the year end, and you suggested the use of a Liability account > > for this purpose, > > > > Unfortunately, the accountant who examines our accounts before > > submission to OSCR (the Scottish Charities Regulator) advised that > > this isn’t an acceptable way to handle restricted funds in the UK. > > > > The problem with using the income accounts (as below) for the various > > types of Income, is that the money not spent (in our case on bursaries > > for musicians who wouldn’t otherwise be able to attend our courses) > > doesn’t persist in the that account after the year end the way a > > liability would. A collection at the final-day concert which is > > advertised as being destined for use as bursaries won’t be spent until > > the next year’s course. > > STOP! The way you keep confusing "income accounts" with the funds that > came in as that income indicates to me that you are still struggling > with the fundamental concepts of double entry bookkeeping. > > The money itself (the funds) would be in an account(s) of type asset. If > a transaction in which money coming in is being recorded the debit side > would be that asset account and the credit side likely an account of > type income << was that the contents of a donations jar, cookie sales, > whatever >> If the transaction is where money is going out, the debit > side likely some expense and the credit side where the money came from > (the account against which the check written, etc. > > You are asking about tracking restricted funds, making sure they are > only used for the designated purpose. Note that if you had separate bank > accounts, it would be perfectly clear. What is being discussed is how > when you DON'T have actually separate accounts you can mimic that. If > your accountant says not done with liabilities, follow his/her advice as > to what accounts to use. I just described for somebody else partitioning > a single (actual) bank account so that it would have a number of > separate accounts in the books << the liabilities method was NOT > partitioning the actual bank account -- equivalent in terms of total > debits and credits >> > > Look, I am here. I am NOT going to be able to find a text book covering > "accounting for non-profits in Scotland". If you are not being told by > your accountant, you need to look that up for yourself, what accounts > you'd need, what the workflow of transactions would look like, etc. THEN > we can tell you how to do that using gnucash as opposed to say pen and > ink on paper. > > Michael D Novack > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Using GnuCash with charity restricted and unrestricted funds, advice wanted
On 5/26/2024 1:37 PM, Michael Hendry wrote: Hi, Michael, We’ve corresponded about this in the past. I was keen to keep track of restricted funds within GC in a way which would make unspent restricted income persist as restricted funds beyond the year end, and you suggested the use of a Liability account for this purpose, Unfortunately, the accountant who examines our accounts before submission to OSCR (the Scottish Charities Regulator) advised that this isn’t an acceptable way to handle restricted funds in the UK. The problem with using the income accounts (as below) for the various types of Income, is that the money not spent (in our case on bursaries for musicians who wouldn’t otherwise be able to attend our courses) doesn’t persist in the that account after the year end the way a liability would. A collection at the final-day concert which is advertised as being destined for use as bursaries won’t be spent until the next year’s course. STOP! The way you keep confusing "income accounts" with the funds that came in as that income indicates to me that you are still struggling with the fundamental concepts of double entry bookkeeping. The money itself (the funds) would be in an account(s) of type asset. If a transaction in which money coming in is being recorded the debit side would be that asset account and the credit side likely an account of type income << was that the contents of a donations jar, cookie sales, whatever >> If the transaction is where money is going out, the debit side likely some expense and the credit side where the money came from (the account against which the check written, etc. You are asking about tracking restricted funds, making sure they are only used for the designated purpose. Note that if you had separate bank accounts, it would be perfectly clear. What is being discussed is how when you DON'T have actually separate accounts you can mimic that. If your accountant says not done with liabilities, follow his/her advice as to what accounts to use. I just described for somebody else partitioning a single (actual) bank account so that it would have a number of separate accounts in the books << the liabilities method was NOT partitioning the actual bank account -- equivalent in terms of total debits and credits >> Look, I am here. I am NOT going to be able to find a text book covering "accounting for non-profits in Scotland". If you are not being told by your accountant, you need to look that up for yourself, what accounts you'd need, what the workflow of transactions would look like, etc. THEN we can tell you how to do that using gnucash as opposed to say pen and ink on paper. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Using GnuCash with charity restricted and unrestricted funds, advice wanted
Hi, Michael, We’ve corresponded about this in the past. I was keen to keep track of restricted funds within GC in a way which would make unspent restricted income persist as restricted funds beyond the year end, and you suggested the use of a Liability account for this purpose, Unfortunately, the accountant who examines our accounts before submission to OSCR (the Scottish Charities Regulator) advised that this isn’t an acceptable way to handle restricted funds in the UK. The problem with using the income accounts (as below) for the various types of Income, is that the money not spent (in our case on bursaries for musicians who wouldn’t otherwise be able to attend our courses) doesn’t persist in the that account after the year end the way a liability would. A collection at the final-day concert which is advertised as being destined for use as bursaries won’t be spent until the next year’s course. On the other hand, if income received for restricted donations is accounted for in this way, and funds paid out as bursaries are also accounted for in a separate expense account it should be easy enough to keep a year-on-year tally of the remaining restricted funds. In practice, we probably spend more than we receive on bursaries each year, but a church roof might be a longer-term job. Michael > On 25 May 2024, at 23:08, Michael or Penny Novack > wrote: > > You did NOT have to have separate books! > > In ONE set of books you can have as many "bank accounts" in the ledger ans > you have bank accounts. Just give them different names so that you can tell > them apart. We may have some difficulties with cross pond differences in > language. Thus your "current account" means what I would call a "checking > account" and you must not confuse "current account" with the asset category > "current assets" << all accounts containing immediately available funds >> > > Thus: > Assets > Current assets >Current account >Savings account << where you are keeping restricted funds >> > > OK, now your donations are all being deposited into the checking account even > though some of those donations are restricted. You are asking how to deal > with that? Under income you could have: > Income > unrestricted donations > untransferred restricted donations > restricted donations > > When you make a deposit into the checking account of a bunch of donations (of > both sorts) you use the top two. Hint: easiest to have an asset under current > assets "undeposited cash" and as donations come in they go there credited to > either unrestricted donations or untransferred. Now your actual bank deposit > is an easy transaction, just undeposited to checking. Later, when you > transfer from the "checking account" to the "savings account" you > would ALSO be transferring between "untransferred restricted donations" to > "restricted donations". NOTE -- your reference to "building society" manes a > different bank? Still that way your side of the pond? > > As for your question about statements, almost all gnucash reports allow you > to SELECT which accounts are to be included. You'd be able to produce > statements for just the unrestricted funds, just the restricted, both > together, etc. > > Do note that while you can't use restricted funds for other than their > intended purpose THE REVERSE IS NOT TRUE < organizational bylaws but would be most unusual >> That's why you would want > to use restricted funds for their intended purpose first (before using any > non-restricted funds for that purpose). You want to clear the restriction. > > Michael D Novack > > PS --- The usual caveat, I'm not "licensed" to give accounting help. For what > it's worth, I've been Treasurer for a number of non-profits. > > PPS -- if you are following this, but your organization does not have that > second bank account, you could track the restriction using a liability. > > > > > > > On 5/25/2024 4:13 PM, Chris Green wrote: >> I am the treasurer of a very small parish church council in the UK. >> >> We have to present separate accounts for restricted and unrestricted >> accounts, this is a legal requirement and also required by our diocese. >> >> At the moment restricted funds are, basically, building funds and are >> kept in an interest paying savings account. The unrestricted funds >> are kept in a bank current account. >> >> My problem is that many donations to the restricted account (e.g. >> donations that the donor has specifically said must be for repairs of >> the church roof) go into the bank current account and have to be >> transferred from there to the building society account. >> >> For the last couple of years I have separate GnuCash data for the >> current account and the building society account, this has worked >> reasonably well. However we are now moving into a period of getting >> the roof repaired and much more money will have to move via the >>
Re: [GNC] Using GnuCash with charity restricted and unrestricted funds, advice wanted
On 5/26/2024 10:24 AM, (Alan) David Smith wrote: Dear Sir/Madam, I am an FCCA in England and an ex PCC treasurer. The main point to bear in mind about funds is that they must be accounted for Separately. They do not have to be represented by separate bank accounts, but it may advisable in Certain cases. So one bank can share various funds. But the bookkeeping must be clear. The other thing to keep clear is that (as Treasurer) you need to be able to produce the report which is NOT the same thing as saying the finished report (pretty print and all) has to come DIRECTLY from your financial software. All your financial software needs to be able to do is produce raw reports which contain the data you would need to put together the finished product. Thus I would guess the "final product" for a restricted fund report in the UK would need starting balance, income to this fund for the period, expenses paid for by this fund, and ending balance. Yes? Notice that for this you might have to partition the authorized expense! << because while the restricted funds can only be used t=for this purpose nothing prevents the organization from also using general funds for the purpose. In other words, possibly not all of that expense were paid for by restricted funds >> The first organization where I took over being Treasurer after retiring another board member who was a lawyer/accountant told me "Mike, don't bother writing custom reports. Just export raw reports and we use a full function editor to produce the finished products" << I could have; spent decades in the cypher mines and was a senior systems analyst/senior business analyst -- never had been paid to write in LISP but I would not have taken long to become fluent in Scheme >>. The point here is that IN GENERAL going to have to do some editing anyway to get a pro[per finished product. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Using GnuCash with charity restricted and unrestricted funds, advice wanted
When I asked this question a couple of years ago there were quite a few suggestions. (Someone better versed in listserv could probably find this, but I can't.) The solution that seemed most straightforward and workable to me was: - Assign each discrete fund a currency code - assuming these are free text, this could be a TLA that matches the name of the fund well, but it's possible the real-world currencies are the only options, so you'd have to approximate and keep an index. - Set the exchange rate at 1:1 - Your funds report is the balance of each "currency" at any given moment I'm sorry I'm still not a real-life GnuCash user, so can't comment on this solution from experience, but it looked like a good solution to me - as secretary/treasurer of an unincorporated charity in the UK using Excel currently. (Which on <20 transactions per month I find perfectly usable - DM me for more on that if you like, or find your way to smallcharitysupport.uk) On Sat, 25 May 2024 at 21:14, Chris Green wrote: > I am the treasurer of a very small parish church council in the UK. > > We have to present separate accounts for restricted and unrestricted > accounts, this is a legal requirement and also required by our diocese. > > At the moment restricted funds are, basically, building funds and are > kept in an interest paying savings account. The unrestricted funds > are kept in a bank current account. > > My problem is that many donations to the restricted account (e.g. > donations that the donor has specifically said must be for repairs of > the church roof) go into the bank current account and have to be > transferred from there to the building society account. > > For the last couple of years I have separate GnuCash data for the > current account and the building society account, this has worked > reasonably well. However we are now moving into a period of getting > the roof repaired and much more money will have to move via the > current account. > > So, how should I deal with this using GnuCash? I can see that I could > separate accounts into two hierarchies (in a single database) - > restricted and unrestricted with expenses and income for each, etc. > However is it then possible to present separate end of year statements > for them? This would simplify incoming donations which are all to a > single bank account. > > Or are there other strategies which work better for this sort of > situation? > > I emphasise that this is a small church, annual income is only of the > order of £5000 and we have no full-time or paid employees. So the > solution has to be simple and manageable by part-time, > non-professional people. > > -- > Chris Green > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Using GnuCash with charity restricted and unrestricted funds, advice wanted
Dear Sir/Madam, I am an FCCA in England and an ex PCC treasurer. The main point to bear in mind about funds is that they must be accounted for Separately. They do not have to be represented by separate bank accounts, but it may advisable in Certain cases. So one bank can share various funds. But the bookkeeping must be clear. Our church has used Financial co-ordinator software in recent years which is good for small and larger churches. It also clearly deals with Fund accounting and is easy to learn. There is a charge - which I do not think is excessive and may be someone would be willing to donate the cost. However I also use GNU Cash for my own books and find it a good free program. Regards, David. Ex PCC Treasurer and current member of Finance committee. On 25/05/2024, 21:13, "gnucash-user on behalf of Chris Green" wrote: I am the treasurer of a very small parish church council in the UK. We have to present separate accounts for restricted and unrestricted accounts, this is a legal requirement and also required by our diocese. At the moment restricted funds are, basically, building funds and are kept in an interest paying savings account. The unrestricted funds are kept in a bank current account. My problem is that many donations to the restricted account (e.g. donations that the donor has specifically said must be for repairs of the church roof) go into the bank current account and have to be transferred from there to the building society account. For the last couple of years I have separate GnuCash data for the current account and the building society account, this has worked reasonably well. However we are now moving into a period of getting the roof repaired and much more money will have to move via the current account. So, how should I deal with this using GnuCash? I can see that I could separate accounts into two hierarchies (in a single database) - restricted and unrestricted with expenses and income for each, etc. However is it then possible to present separate end of year statements for them? This would simplify incoming donations which are all to a single bank account. Or are there other strategies which work better for this sort of situation? I emphasise that this is a small church, annual income is only of the order of £5000 and we have no full-time or paid employees. So the solution has to be simple and manageable by part-time, non-professional people. -- Chris Green ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Using GnuCash with charity restricted and unrestricted funds, advice wanted
You did NOT have to have separate books! In ONE set of books you can have as many "bank accounts" in the ledger ans you have bank accounts. Just give them different names so that you can tell them apart. We may have some difficulties with cross pond differences in language. Thus your "current account" means what I would call a "checking account" and you must not confuse "current account" with the asset category "current assets" << all accounts containing immediately available funds >> Thus: Assets Current assets Current account Savings account << where you are keeping restricted funds >> OK, now your donations are all being deposited into the checking account even though some of those donations are restricted. You are asking how to deal with that? Under income you could have: Income unrestricted donations untransferred restricted donations restricted donations When you make a deposit into the checking account of a bunch of donations (of both sorts) you use the top two. Hint: easiest to have an asset under current assets "undeposited cash" and as donations come in they go there credited to either unrestricted donations or untransferred. Now your actual bank deposit is an easy transaction, just undeposited to checking. Later, when you transfer from the "checking account" to the "savings account" you would ALSO be transferring between "untransferred restricted donations" to "restricted donations". NOTE -- your reference to "building society" manes a different bank? Still that way your side of the pond? As for your question about statements, almost all gnucash reports allow you to SELECT which accounts are to be included. You'd be able to produce statements for just the unrestricted funds, just the restricted, both together, etc. Do note that while you can't use restricted funds for other than their intended purpose THE REVERSE IS NOT TRUE> That's why you would want to use restricted funds for their intended purpose first (before using any non-restricted funds for that purpose). You want to clear the restriction. Michael D Novack PS --- The usual caveat, I'm not "licensed" to give accounting help. For what it's worth, I've been Treasurer for a number of non-profits. PPS -- if you are following this, but your organization does not have that second bank account, you could track the restriction using a liability. On 5/25/2024 4:13 PM, Chris Green wrote: I am the treasurer of a very small parish church council in the UK. We have to present separate accounts for restricted and unrestricted accounts, this is a legal requirement and also required by our diocese. At the moment restricted funds are, basically, building funds and are kept in an interest paying savings account. The unrestricted funds are kept in a bank current account. My problem is that many donations to the restricted account (e.g. donations that the donor has specifically said must be for repairs of the church roof) go into the bank current account and have to be transferred from there to the building society account. For the last couple of years I have separate GnuCash data for the current account and the building society account, this has worked reasonably well. However we are now moving into a period of getting the roof repaired and much more money will have to move via the current account. So, how should I deal with this using GnuCash? I can see that I could separate accounts into two hierarchies (in a single database) - restricted and unrestricted with expenses and income for each, etc. However is it then possible to present separate end of year statements for them? This would simplify incoming donations which are all to a single bank account. Or are there other strategies which work better for this sort of situation? I emphasise that this is a small church, annual income is only of the order of £5000 and we have no full-time or paid employees. So the solution has to be simple and manageable by part-time, non-professional people. -- There is no possibility of social justice on a dead planet except the equality of the grave. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] Using GnuCash with charity restricted and unrestricted funds, advice wanted
Just use a sub account of the bank account for credits and debits. If you have more complex reporting then use filter reports - https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2024-May/111804.html Regards > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] Using GnuCash with charity restricted and unrestricted funds, advice wanted
I am the treasurer of a very small parish church council in the UK. We have to present separate accounts for restricted and unrestricted accounts, this is a legal requirement and also required by our diocese. At the moment restricted funds are, basically, building funds and are kept in an interest paying savings account. The unrestricted funds are kept in a bank current account. My problem is that many donations to the restricted account (e.g. donations that the donor has specifically said must be for repairs of the church roof) go into the bank current account and have to be transferred from there to the building society account. For the last couple of years I have separate GnuCash data for the current account and the building society account, this has worked reasonably well. However we are now moving into a period of getting the roof repaired and much more money will have to move via the current account. So, how should I deal with this using GnuCash? I can see that I could separate accounts into two hierarchies (in a single database) - restricted and unrestricted with expenses and income for each, etc. However is it then possible to present separate end of year statements for them? This would simplify incoming donations which are all to a single bank account. Or are there other strategies which work better for this sort of situation? I emphasise that this is a small church, annual income is only of the order of £5000 and we have no full-time or paid employees. So the solution has to be simple and manageable by part-time, non-professional people. -- Chris Green ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
