Re: What happened to the code freeze?

2010-04-21 Thread Nicola Pero



Having many commits during a "feature freeze" is very good as it is
supposed to mean that a lots of bugs are being fixed. :-)


As far as I can tell none of the recent commits in gui or back is
related to any reported bug. [...]


Ok - thanks! - that clarifies the problem then :-)

I'm sure individual committers would probably disagree or have good  
arguments
why their changes should have gone in - it sounds like we need some  
simple process
to resolve the disagreements and decide what goes in and what doesn't  
go in at this stage ? ;-)


As far as I understand, you're in charge of GUI, so maybe you (and/or  
Gregory) could propose
how you want to manage that ?  Maybe patches for GUI must be approved  
by you before being

committed during the feature freeze ?

As an outsider, it does seem that GUI needs a few weeks of feature  
freeze and bug fixing, so I wouldn't

give up on that just because it needs to be organized somehow ;-)

(btw sorry, I don't mean to interfere - I'll disappear from the  
discussion of the GUI release freeze after this email)


--

For the part I work on (gnustep-make and core makefiles) anyone can  
make any small fixes they want,
but for substantial changes please talk to me before committing (this  
is always the case though). :-)


gnustep-make is quite ready for the 2.4.0 release, except that:

 * there is this long-standing issue of whether we should link all  
libraries or not when linking executables.
I was planning on making that configurable at ./configure stage (with  
some reasonable, OS-dependent
defaults).  It would be good to do this before a release, as it might  
change how things are linked.  On the
other hand, I have a feeling it's too late for 2.4.0, so I'll probably  
do it as the first thing after this release instead.


 * I haven't looked at how gnustep-make works on Apple at all.  I  
wanted to make sure the apple-apple-apple
settings and compiler/linker flags are meaningful and usable - at the  
moment, I don't think they are as many
people reported you have to tweak them in non-obvious ways to use  
it.   If I get some time, I'll try to do this

before the release.

 * I also wanted to look at the Cygwin port, but that may not have  
time before the release.


Thanks


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Re: What happened to the code freeze?

2010-04-21 Thread Fred Kiefer
Am 21.04.2010 09:50, schrieb Nicola Pero:
> As far as I understand, you're in charge of GUI, so maybe you (and/or
> Gregory) could propose
> how you want to manage that ?  Maybe patches for GUI must be approved by
> you before being
> committed during the feature freeze ?

I'd rather rely on people being careful in what they commit. This used
to work in previous years. This time it is different perhaps because we
let the release drag on for too long?

> As an outsider, it does seem that GUI needs a few weeks of feature
> freeze and bug fixing, so I wouldn't
> give up on that just because it needs to be organized somehow ;-)

Could you please give an explanation of this impression? Was this a
general statement that before any gui release we should have such a
period or was this based on any specific know limitation of gui?
With regards to gui I still don't see you as an outsider, you were the
one that committed my first patches to gui and commented on them. In my
thinking you still know a lot more about gui than I do.

Fred


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Re: What happened to the code freeze?

2010-04-21 Thread Nicola Pero



As an outsider, it does seem that GUI needs a few weeks of feature
freeze and bug fixing, so I wouldn't
give up on that just because it needs to be organized somehow ;-)


Could you please give an explanation of this impression? Was this a
general statement that before any gui release we should have such a
period or was this based on any specific know limitation of gui?


It's a general statement.  The GUI is complicated because of all the  
interactions.
A change in one place might break something somewhere else and which  
would
seem completely unrelated ;-) (I blame the API, but you could  
conceivably blame

the implementation)

Because of that, I'd expect the GUI to need even more bug fixing than  
the rest ?


For the non-graphical stuff (gnustep-make, gnustep-base, jigs,  
SQLClient,
WebServer, WebServices, etc) that we use at work, we are very keen on  
having
very stable and bug free releases.  We almost don't care about new  
features.
But we need very stable software.  So a long bug fixing phase is  
really good.  :-)


I would imagine most other users appreciate very stable software  
too. :-)


Thanks


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Re: What happened to the code freeze?

2010-04-21 Thread Fred Kiefer
Am 20.04.2010 23:30, schrieb Nicola Pero:
>> Looks like we have more commit right now during code freeze then we
>> have at normal times. I would suggest that we give up the idea of
>> doing more tests. As long as people cannot stick to a code freeze
>> even for a week,
> 
> I thought we were in "feature freeze" - ie, all commits must be bug 
> fixes as opposed to implementation of new features.  A typical
> pre-release phase to iron out bugs before a release. :-)

I was referring to Gregory's mail from the 9th, there he suggested a
code/feature freeze for two weeks. The trouble with the current release
is that it was due before FOSDEM, we normal come out with a GNUstep
release about twice a year. And this time we really had enough new
features and bug fixes to warrant a release, that would be urgently
needed to get a new stable release of GNUstep onto current distributions.
But then just before FOSDEM Richard started that big reorganisation of
base, which was a very good thing to do. I tried to follow this with a
rather smaller change to gui and planned for a release right after that.
Of course with a bit of time for all applications to adjust to these
changes and also for any urgent bug fixes.

> Instead, you're suggesting we're in "code freeze" - meaning no
> commits at all ?  Ie, nothing gets done for weeks ?  I've never seen
> a project do that.  Anyway it would be easy enough to do, we just all
> have to stop doing anything.  Hmmm.  Not sure why that would be
> useful ? ;-)

Code freeze doesn't mean no "commits at all". It means restricting the
commits to important changes that all agree on. Normally this gets done
by assigning a release manager that will have to accept and apply
patches. We did not do this in GNUstep, but relied on people being careful.
I know that you are managing commercial software and that you are quite
aware of all these concepts. This means you also know why it is
sometimes a good thing to stop doing random changes. In our case it
would allow application developers to catch up. While freezing core
changes to gdl, Gorm, Gworkspace, GAP and so on are still valid.
It would also allow people to test a rather well defined version of
GNUstep core on many different platforms. And of course if there are any
regressions try to fix them.

> Having many commits during a "feature freeze" is very good as it is 
> supposed to mean that a lots of bugs are being fixed. :-)

As far as I can tell none of the recent commits in gui or back is
related to any reported bug. Quentin's change clearly addresses a bug so
it would be in your definition the only valid candidate for a commit.
And although I see this as the most important patch of the year, I think
it is to dangerous to apply it now. Something as deep as this needs at
least four weeks of testing time, give the slow responses to changes in
GNUstep.

> With about 150 bugs open in the bug tracking system, we probably
> need quite a few weeks of feature freeze / bug fixing to get a good
> release. :-)

Actually most of the changes done in GNUstep could be counted as bug
fixes. What we mostly do is correct cases where GNUstep behaves
differently from Cocoa. Event the XIB laoding, the only new feature I
added this year, could be seen as a bug fix. Fixing the "GNUstep wont
load XIB files" bug :-)

> If I am the one who misunderstood and we really are in "code
> freeze", please let me know. ;-)
> 
> Probably Gregory should clarify.
> 
> I personally suggest we stay in a "feature freeze / bug fixing only" 
> phase for a while until the bug count is down and the commits slow
> down because there are no more bugs to fix :-)

Again, at the moment the bug count is not decreasing, nobody is into
fixing old bugs. OK, Richard and you each fixed one bug from the bug
tracker during the last week. At that rate we could have a feature
freeze for over a year to get the bugs resolved.

> Finally, it is quite possible you were referring to some specific 
> changes that are new features instead of being bug fixes - presumably
> in the gui ?  If so, you should IMO feel free to point these out, and
> even revert them.

I am referring to the ongoing changes to gui by Eric and Doug. All of
these are valid changes as far as I can tell. They surely fix some
behaviour that was annoying enough for them. But all these changes may
and did also introduce new issues to others. This is fine in normal
development mode, while trying to come up with a stable release it wont
help.

Perhaps it was an error not to set up any strict release management. I
would prefer if we can do without that. This requires that we all need
to think about the release and not just our pet issue that is annoying
us at this very moment. Having a GNUstep core release soon would be good
for the project and for all developers that build on top of GNUstep.
This should be our main goal at the moment.

And right after the release everybody should go back to committing like
crazy.

Fred


_

What happened to the code freeze?

2010-04-21 Thread Gregory Casamento
We probably should have created a branch for the stable state and done
the release from there.

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Fred Kiefer  wrote:
> Looks like we have more commit right now during code freeze then we have
> at normal times. I would suggest that we give up the idea of doing more
> tests. As long as people cannot stick to a code freeze even for a week,
> we wont have any stable state that is worth testing. As far as we are
> aware all the bugs introduced freshly with Richard's and to a lesser
> extend my restructuring should be fixed by now. We will find out about
> other problems that went in with the recent commits soon enough.
>
> A the situation isn't improving with more waiting, I think we should
> make a release now and then try to get in all the other important stuff
> and make another pre-release before the gui/back 1.0.
>
> Fred
>
>
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(240)274-9630 (Cell)



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Re: What happened to the code freeze?

2010-04-21 Thread Doug Simons
Hello,

Fred wrote:
> As far as I can tell none of the recent commits in gui or back is
> related to any reported bug.

> [snip]

> I am referring to the ongoing changes to gui by Eric and Doug. All of
> these are valid changes as far as I can tell. They surely fix some
> behaviour that was annoying enough for them. But all these changes may
> and did also introduce new issues to others. This is fine in normal
> development mode, while trying to come up with a stable release it wont
> help.

It's true that the changes I've been submitting aren't in response to bugs in 
the GNUstep bug system. We are actively fixing bugs in our own application. As 
an illustration, when we have a bug that affects only the Windows version of 
our product, I'm pretty sure that it's caused by a problem somewhere in 
GNUstep, but I don't know for sure until I dig in and debug exactly what's 
going wrong. This typically takes several hours of debugging, at which point I 
can see what the problem is, so I fix it.

Now, at that point I suppose I could enter a bug on savannah and then mark it 
as fixed, but I don't really see the point of doing that (and I'm under a lot 
of time pressure right now, as we are scheduled for a release next week!). So 
I've just been careful to review my own fixes and try to describe what I'm 
fixing when I check it in.

Since we're in 'code freeze' mode, I hope that someone (maybe more than one 
someone?) is looking at any changes that are checked in to make sure they look 
sane, and perhaps think about whether they might have unintended consequences.

I'm about to check in a significant fix, that substantially improves 
performance on Windows (with in-window menus). The change dramatically reduces 
the frequency of rebuilding the Windows menus. They were rebuilding with every 
event rather than only when needed. The resulting drag on performance wasn't 
just an "annoyance" -- it basically made editing text in an NSTextView almost 
unusable.

I've checked my code over carefully, and believe it won't have any negative 
consequences. As part of this fix, I corrected a bug in NSMenu which was never 
setting its supermenu ivar correctly, and improved NSMenuItem to only notify 
its menu that it has changed when something actually changes. It's conceivable 
that that could impact some other code, but is clearly more "correct" now than 
its former behavior.

The main impact of this change will only be on Windows for applications that 
use in-window menus. For those applications, there is a small chance that I 
missed something such that menus will fail to update when they should, now that 
they're not updating all the time (I don't think so, but it's worth watching 
out for).

I could hold off on submitting this change, but it seems to me like exactly the 
kind of fix that I (at least) would like to see going in right now. So I plan 
to check it in as soon as it's validated by some other people here. Please let 
me know if you see any problems with this change or any others that I submit.

We really appreciate the timing of this "feature freeze", by the way, since we 
are in the middle of a release. Knowing that things are relatively stable and 
only getting bug fixes is perfect for us right now. 

And while I'm at it, I'd like to say "THANK YOU" to everyone on the GNUstep 
team! The more I dig into the code, the more I'm reminded of what an incredible 
amount of work has gone into it, and despite the bugs (which are frustrating, 
and are the cause of my digging into the code in the first place) there is an 
amazing amount of functionality here that is working really well. Hopefully our 
small contributions will help GNUstep to be even better.

Cheers,

Doug

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Re: What happened to the code freeze?

2010-04-21 Thread Gregory Casamento
I believe that "feature freeze" is the correct term and what I was
really after when I suggested the freeze.   I'm comfortable with any
changes that fix or improve existing functionality so long as:

1) they don't add new features and
2) They don't involve drastic refactoring of existing code.

GC

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Nicola Pero
 wrote:
>
>> Looks like we have more commit right now during code freeze then we have
>> at normal times. I would suggest that we give up the idea of doing more
>> tests. As long as people cannot stick to a code freeze even for a week,
>
> I thought we were in "feature freeze" - ie, all commits must be bug fixes as
> opposed to
> implementation of new features.  A typical pre-release phase to iron out
> bugs before
> a release. :-)
>
> Instead, you're suggesting we're in "code freeze" - meaning no commits at
> all ?  Ie, nothing
> gets done for weeks ?  I've never seen a project do that.  Anyway it would
> be easy enough to
> do, we just all have to stop doing anything.  Hmmm.  Not sure why that would
> be useful ? ;-)
>
> Having many commits during a "feature freeze" is very good as it is supposed
> to mean
> that a lots of bugs are being fixed. :-)
>
> With about 150 bugs open in the bug tracking system, we probably need quite
> a few
> weeks of feature freeze / bug fixing to get a good release. :-)
>
> If I am the one who misunderstood and we really are in "code freeze", please
> let me know. ;-)
>
> Probably Gregory should clarify.
>
> I personally suggest we stay in a "feature freeze / bug fixing only" phase
> for a while until
> the bug count is down and the commits slow down because there are no more
> bugs to fix :-)
>
> Finally, it is quite possible you were referring to some specific changes
> that are new features
> instead of being bug fixes - presumably in the gui ?  If so, you should IMO
> feel free to point these
> out, and even revert them.
>
> Thanks
>
>
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Re: What happened to the code freeze?

2010-04-21 Thread Eric Wasylishen
Sorry, two of my recent theme-related commits were probably inappropriate to
make  during the feature freeze (adding an option to disable the inner
border in NSScrollView, and moving NSBrowser header drawing to GSTheme). I
can revert these if you'd like.

Doug: the Windows menu fixes sound great. I was noticing a lot of menu
flickering with the WinUX theme, and mousewheel scrolling in Ink was really
laggy - I bet your patch will fix those problems.

Eric

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Gregory Casamento <
greg.casame...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I believe that "feature freeze" is the correct term and what I was
> really after when I suggested the freeze.   I'm comfortable with any
> changes that fix or improve existing functionality so long as:
>
> 1) they don't add new features and
> 2) They don't involve drastic refactoring of existing code.
>
> GC
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Re: What happened to the code freeze?

2010-04-21 Thread Gregory Casamento
The feature freeze only includes core (make, base, gui and back).   I
don't really consider the WinUXTheme (or any of the themes) to be part
of the freeze, so your changes are fine where they are.

I should have been more concise about the scope of the freeze I wanted
in the first place.  That would have avoided some of the current
confusion.

I would like Doug to send the patches he's got in mind to Fred for
review and testing.

GC

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Eric Wasylishen  wrote:
> Sorry, two of my recent theme-related commits were probably inappropriate to
> make  during the feature freeze (adding an option to disable the inner
> border in NSScrollView, and moving NSBrowser header drawing to GSTheme). I
> can revert these if you'd like.
> Doug: the Windows menu fixes sound great. I was noticing a lot of menu
> flickering with the WinUX theme, and mousewheel scrolling in Ink was really
> laggy - I bet your patch will fix those problems.
> Eric
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Gregory Casamento
>  wrote:
>>
>> I believe that "feature freeze" is the correct term and what I was
>> really after when I suggested the freeze.   I'm comfortable with any
>> changes that fix or improve existing functionality so long as:
>>
>> 1) they don't add new features and
>> 2) They don't involve drastic refactoring of existing code.
>>
>> GC



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Re: [Gnustep-cvs] r30188 - in /libs/back/trunk: ChangeLog Source/winlib/WIN32FontInfo.m

2010-04-21 Thread Eric Wasylishen
How does this look:

  defs = [NSUserDefaults standardUserDefaults];
  if ([defs objectForKey: @"GSFontAntiAlias"] != nil
  && [defs boolForKey: @"GSFontAntiAlias"] == NO)
{
  logfont.lfQuality = NONANTIALIASED_QUALITY;
}
  else
{
  logfont.lfQuality = DEFAULT_QUALITY;
}

Settting GSFontAntiAlias to NO forces non-antialiased fonts.
Otherwise, the windows system setting is used.

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 3:38 AM, Fred Kiefer  wrote:

> Am 19.04.2010 03:23, schrieb Eric Wasylishen:
> > Author: ericwa
> > Date: Mon Apr 19 03:23:30 2010
> > New Revision: 30188
> >
> > URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/gnustep?rev=30188&view=rev
> > Log:
> > winlib/WIN32FontInfo.m: Use DEFAULT_QUALITY for fonts
> >
> > Modified:
> > libs/back/trunk/ChangeLog
> > libs/back/trunk/Source/winlib/WIN32FontInfo.m
>
> In back we have the user default GSFontAntiAlias defined that could be
> used to decide whether AA fonts or normal ones should be used.
>
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Re: What happened to the code freeze?

2010-04-21 Thread Riccardo Mottola

Nicola Pero wrote:



Looks like we have more commit right now during code freeze then we have
at normal times. I would suggest that we give up the idea of doing more
tests. As long as people cannot stick to a code freeze even for a week,


I thought we were in "feature freeze" - ie, all commits must be bug 
fixes as opposed to
implementation of new features.  A typical pre-release phase to iron 
out bugs before

a release. :-)
Exactly! I understood the same. Of course some fixes might introduce new 
bugs, btu this is normal during testing.




Instead, you're suggesting we're in "code freeze" - meaning no commits 
at all ?  Ie, nothing
gets done for weeks ?  I've never seen a project do that.  Anyway it 
would be easy enough to
do, we just all have to stop doing anything.  Hmmm.  Not sure why that 
would be useful ? ;-)


Never head about that, not even at work. A freeze of 1-2 days is 
possible there, for pure testing, but we can't in opensource do that. Or 
we might declare a certain weekend to be test weekend, if a couple of 
people can follow that.
With about 150 bugs open in the bug tracking system, we probably need 
quite a few

weeks of feature freeze / bug fixing to get a good release. :-)

Yes, we have a lot of bugs. I was speaking with Gregory and it would be 
nice to have some of these fixed.


I personally suggest we stay in a "feature freeze / bug fixing only" 
phase for a while until
the bug count is down and the commits slow down because there are no 
more bugs to fix :-)
Yes, or at least a certain number of bugs have been addressed or 
explained or posponed.
I undertand that this release is long due, but it is a very important 
release I think.
There are many changes, I noticed that many applications need a new 
release because of adjustments needed.
Even smalls tuff, like the header and import cleanup done by Fred. Of 
course he did a good job, the applications were wrong, but they need to 
be released soon, so that people don't experience broken applications.
There will be some sort of avalanche effect. We must be careful about 
that, but if done well it will give us exposure and advertisement! They 
can't call us dead anymore.




Finally, it is quite possible you were referring to some specific 
changes that are new features
instead of being bug fixes - presumably in the gui ?  If so, you 
should IMO feel free to point these

out, and even revert them.

Some of the commits clearly marked fixes. How good they are we must retest.

Cheers,
  Riccardo


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Re: What happened to the code freeze?

2010-04-21 Thread Riccardo Mottola

Hi,


 * I also wanted to look at the Cygwin port, but that may not have 
time before the release.
I would appreciate that. I think it is currently broken, at least for 
me. Somebody worked here on the list, but he never replied me when I 
asked how far he got. Since I consider it broken, I would not put it 
subject to "feature freeze". If you improve it even partially (atl least 
to get base working) go on.


A very very nice feature fix would be having the instalaltion domain 
configuration working on windows like on linux! I bet Gregory agrees...



Riccardo


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Re: What happened to the code freeze?

2010-04-21 Thread Nicola Pero
A very very nice feature fix would be having the instalaltion domain  
configuration working on windows like on linux! I bet Gregory  
agrees...


I have already fixed it :-)

Thanks



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Attempted GORM build on GNUstep/Windows (was: Re: Which bugs to focus on for the release?)

2010-04-21 Thread Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf


Am 20.04.2010 um 01:06 schrieb Adam Fedor:



On Apr 19, 2010, at 11:34 AM, Fred Kiefer wrote:


Am 19.04.2010 17:38, schrieb Adam Fedor:
Seems to I a great solution to the problem. Perhaps we should also  
state

there, why we don't make it the default (some applications wont work
with that setting, as far as I understand) and how to activate,
deactivate it later on. OK, this might be to much text for an
installation panel, but there seems to be some space left on it.



Sure good idea.  FYI,  I've put a preview release of the Windows  
installer on the web site, if anyone wants to test it.


http://www.gnustep.org/experience/Windows.html


I tested the installers the other day. I installed GNUstep System  
0.24.2, GNUstep Core 0.24.2 and GNUstep Devel 1.0.0  in that order.  
Everything worked as expected so far. Then I tried to build GORM on  
that setup like this:


l...@test ~
$ mkdir gorm

l...@test ~
$ cd gorm

l...@test ~/gorm
$ svn co http://svn.gna.org/svn/gnustep/apps/gorm/trunk/

l...@test ~/gorm
$ cd trunk/

l...@test ~/gorm/trunk
$ make && make install
This is gnustep-make 2.2.0. Type 'make print-gnustep-make-help' for  
help.
/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/aggregate.make:48: /GNUstep/System/ 
Library/Makefiles/Master/serial-subdirectories.make: No such file or  
directory
make: *** No rule to make target `/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/ 
Master/serial-subdirectories.make'.  Stop.



What went wrong here? Is there something I missed?


regards,

Lars


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Re: Attempted GORM build on GNUstep/Windows (was: Re: Which bugs to focus on for the release?)

2010-04-21 Thread Adam Fedor
On Apr 21, 2010, at 4:08 PM, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote:
> 
> l...@test ~/gorm/trunk
> $ make && make install
> This is gnustep-make 2.2.0. Type 'make print-gnustep-make-help' for help.
> /GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/aggregate.make:48: 
> /GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/Master/serial-subdirectories.make: No such 
> file or directory
> make: *** No rule to make target 
> `/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/Master/serial-subdirectories.make'.  Stop.
> 


I'll check the file list.  It's possible that was not copied.

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Re: [Gnustep-cvs] r30188 - in /libs/back/trunk: ChangeLog Source/winlib/WIN32FontInfo.m

2010-04-21 Thread Fred Kiefer
The code looks OK to me. But is the result what you want to achieve?
I could see us using three cases here. The variable GSFontAntiAlias not
being set means use the standard behaviour, that is DEFAULT_QUALITY. If
it is set to NO, we use NONANTIALIASED_QUALITY and if it is set to YES
we use ANTIALIASED_QUALITY.
Hopefully most people wont even know about this variable so they get the
standard behaviour all the time.

Fred

Am 21.04.2010 20:58, schrieb Eric Wasylishen:
> How does this look:
> 
>   defs = [NSUserDefaults standardUserDefaults];
>   if ([defs objectForKey: @"GSFontAntiAlias"] != nil
>   && [defs boolForKey: @"GSFontAntiAlias"] == NO)
> {
>   logfont.lfQuality = NONANTIALIASED_QUALITY;
> }
>   else
> {
>   logfont.lfQuality = DEFAULT_QUALITY;
> }
> 
> Settting GSFontAntiAlias to NO forces non-antialiased fonts.
> Otherwise, the windows system setting is used.
> 
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 3:38 AM, Fred Kiefer  wrote:
> 
>> Am 19.04.2010 03:23, schrieb Eric Wasylishen:
>>> Author: ericwa
>>> Date: Mon Apr 19 03:23:30 2010
>>> New Revision: 30188
>>>
>>> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/gnustep?rev=30188&view=rev
>>> Log:
>>> winlib/WIN32FontInfo.m: Use DEFAULT_QUALITY for fonts
>>>
>>> Modified:
>>> libs/back/trunk/ChangeLog
>>> libs/back/trunk/Source/winlib/WIN32FontInfo.m
>>
>> In back we have the user default GSFontAntiAlias defined that could be
>> used to decide whether AA fonts or normal ones should be used.



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