Re: [Goanet]Re: Floriano Lobo's trip to the election ring

[carlos6143]

jose colaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

Here is where I disagree with you: 

 

1. <" Why can't the CHURCH take a stand on corruption? ". > 

 
BTW when last have you been to church in Goa? Maybe you do not/cannot 
understand that poorly constructed nasal-dialect of Marathi pretending 
to be Konkani that is heard in the churches of Goa. 

 

2. <"Even if they do. the CHURCH is not doing enough".> 

 
Again, I am a strong believer of separation of Church and State. 
Otherwise we'd be no different from those Islamic fundamentalists who 
are now taking control of the deserts, and those Hindu fundamentalist 
who are trying to make a comeback in your favourite country. 

 
Not to forget the Rt. Wing Christians wherever they exist & their 

apologists. 
 
Jose,

1.  I go to Goa frequently and I am there at every Sunday mass. Never 
did I hear the church preaching on corruption.
2.  I am also a strong believer of separation of Church and State. 
Corruption is widespread, starting from politicians to govt employees 
to neighbors/relatives. I believe the Church need to stress on morals 
and values.


Mog asundi,
Carlos

[Goanet]RE: OFFTOPIC -- Bad news: the gender divide in emailing...

[Philip Thomas]

[Christina Pinto,
Mat 23]

Sure it would be a good thing  if there was more female participation on
goanet. Having said that we need to know what is holding it back?  Let's
assume that it is an unwillingness rather than an inability (educational,
technological etc) to do so. Then why the hesitation? Maybe it has something
to do with the oneupmanship game that is rife in generalised discussion
forums. If it is any consolation, male participants seem to face the same
problem! So when the gender divide is less on this count, why not reduce it
in participation terms as well? As the Nike saying goes, "just do it",
ladies!

[Goanet]Re: USSR unfriendly?

[Bosco D'Mello]

Cecil Pinto wrote:

> Dear Bosco,
> 
> I don't the USSR was ever perceived as an 'unfriendly' country by India. 
> Why do you call it unfriendly? Was the USSR considered unfriendly by Canada?
>
> Cecil

RESPONSE: It was nice to read Derek Almeida's humor on Goanet after a longtime.
http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/2005-May/028735.html

Too bad!! India lost a "friend" and the world lost a country.

Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out
They leave the West behind
And Moscow girls make me sing and shout
That Georgia's always on my mind
I'm back in the USSR
Your don't know how lucky you are boy
Back in the US. Back in the US. Back in the USSR.
(Lennon/McCartney) The White Album - 1968

Best wishes - Bosco

[Goanet]Re: Some of my best friends are Canucks

[Bosco D'Mello]

Mario,

I'll concede again as I have in the past, that one can never fully comprehend 
what the other party intended saying when reading an email. This has often 
lead to misunderstandings, rancour and nastiness.

My original message on this thread was in response to Cornel's request.

> Mario replies:
> Oooh!  Touched a raw nerve, have we?  By the way, I have many good things 
> to say about your beautiful country, but you are not going to hear them 
> when I'm responding to vicious, truth-twisting attacks on everything 
> American, that have no context or perspective.

RESPONSE: No raw nerves here !! It does not matter what you have to say. What 
you've said thus far is enuff !!

> Bosco, you should know better than anyone else that all this started with 
> the vicious, sadistic, bogus and completely delusional attacks on everything 
> US by your fellow countryman in Toronto, Mervyn.

RESPONSE: Take some of your own advice that you have dished out in the past 
few days. Here are your quotes: 

"Gabe, you need to unwind a little and not take yourself so seriously."
"Let's not all get carried away here."

> > Bosco writes: 
> > 
> > http://kpearson.faculty.tcnj.edu/Dictionary/canuck.htm
> > ‘Canuck’ seems to be a sticky term. Used by Canadians, the word is 
> > acceptable in virtually all applications. Used by an outsider, however, 
> > it has the potential to take on an offensive or derogatory tone.

> Mario replies:
> How did the College of New Jersey, which I never heard of until this post, 
> become the authority on what is appropriate?  There are also some American 
> college professors who believe the use of native-American team names is 
> offensive, which is patently absurd.  Even then, the good professor 
> says, "Used by Canadians, the word is acceptable in virtually all 
> applications."

RESPONSE: You think very little of Canada's The Globe and Mail and The 
Guardian from the UK. A google of the web will yield loads of jingoistic info 
on the term "Canuck" from Canadian sites. But then I wouldn't dare refer you 
to anything other than US sites as all these sites are "vicious and truth-
twisting on everything American". So I referred you to a US site.

> So what's with all the angst, if it is acceptable when used by Canadians?  
> What kind of logic makes a term "acceptable" or "unacceptable" based on who 
> is using it?  This is simply a left-wing political tactic.
> 
> Grow up guys.

RESPONSE: What was all the angst if somebody spelt your last name Goveia or 
Gouveia ?? Why were you correcting a fellow Goanetter some weeks ago ?? When 
somebody does not like the name he/she is being called/addressed, etiquette 
would demand you amend one's habit.

It's time for you to follow your own advice again !!

> > Bosco writes: 
> > So Mario, while I can't speak for everybody.you can continue to call 
> > me a Canuck especially if it makes you feel good.I am after all a 
> > GOAN CANADIAN!
> 
> Mario replies:
> Thanks for the permission, Bosco.  So, according to you and your professor 
> at the College of New Jersey, I guess it is then perfectly acceptable for 
> me or another Canadian to call you a Goan Canuck?

RESPONSE: This is YOUR prof in YOUR country. New Jersey is not part of Canada. 
And yes, you can call me a Goan Canuck !! I hope you feel better now and we 
can return to more important issues that affect Goans in Canada. For 
eg. Jobs !! There are a number of educated and highly qualified individuals, 
including Goans that come to Canada each year and go thru great difficulty in 
getting started in their chosen professions.

Best wishes - Bosco

[Goanet]Indian scientist receives international award

[Bosco D'Mello]

Indian scientist receives international award

Tuesday, 24 May , 2005, 08:55

Tel Aviv: Renowned Indian chemist Professor C N R Rao has won the one million 
USD Dan David Prize for his lifetime contribution to material sciences.

"This is a high point in my career. I have received several awards but this is 
like the Nobel Prize. The standards are very high here and such a major award 
is being bestowed on an Indian after a long gap since C V Raman got the Nobel 
Prize in 1930," Rao said before the award ceremony.

He also expressed hope that the award will inspire young Indian scientists to 
believe that pioneering research can be carried out in their own country.

Read the rest @ 
http://sify.com/news/othernews/fullstory.php?id=13806846


 

Re: [Goanet] Sexual behavior - normal/abnormal

[Santosh Helekar]

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>As a psychiatrist, he was pro-homosexuals.
> 

Being a psychiatrist does not automatically make
someone pro-homosexual.

>
>He dismissed calling their sexual behavior normal. 
>

This is not in consonance with the guidelines of the
American Psychiatric Association, and the Diagnostic
and Statistical Manual, which guides the diagnosis of
mental illness in psychiatric practice.

>
>According to him, "An average sexual contact of a
>homosexual through his / her life is about 100
>DIFFERENT individuals." 
>

There are several scientific studies that contradict
the above statement. For example:

Billy JO, Tanfer K, Grady WR, Klepinger DH. (1993) The
sexual behavior
of men in the United States, Fam Plann Perspect. 1993
Mar-Apr;25(2):52-60.

Fay RE, Turner CF, Klassen AD, Gagnon JH. (1989)
Prevalence and patterns of same-gender sexual contact
among men. Science. 1989 Jan 20;243(4889):338-48.

According to these studies, 69% of homosexual men have
contact with less than 5 partners. Only 18% have 10 or
more partners. 

>
>He went on to say, "How can that be considered normal
>... even for heterosexuals?"
>

According to this type of reasoning all heterosexual
and homosexual persons who have sexual contact with
100 or more partners would be considered abnormal.
Very few people would find this type of logic
convincing. This is certainly not a basis to
characterize all homosexuals as abnormal, because a
sizable plurality of them are not promiscuous. Indeed,
the prevalence of celibacy is greater among
homosexuals than heterosexuals.

> 
>If one is thinking of No Consequences - there is a
>whole category of STD (sexually transmitted
diseases).  >Now one may say, "That has nothing to do
with >sexuality or having multiple partners." 
Yea!:=))
> 

Increased extraneous risk of a particular of kind
among any group of individuals does not make them
abnormal. For example, women are more prone to have
breast cancer. It is not considered abnormal to be a
woman.

>
>A 'good gene mutation' through evolution makes an
>individual a biologically better individual and
nature >wants it transmitted to make a better species.
 How >can a homosexual gene mutation be nature's
design to >improve the biologic species - since there
is no
>chance of its propagation?
>

Evolution is a value-free, undirected,
non-progressive, random process. There is no design,
teleology or idealism of any kind involved in it.
There are no good or bad mutations. Mutations, which
by chance happen to give a survival and/or
reproductive advantage to
an organism in a given environment, end up being more
successfully transmitted. As for why mutation(s)
underlying the predisposition to homosexuality have
survived, even though they cannot be directly passed
on to the offspring, there are many explanations, none
of which are unique to homosexuality. Here are four
such explanations:

1. These mutations in men might be X-linked and
maternally transmitted. As you know, one of the X
chromosomes is inactive in women.

2. The time that has elapsed since the emergence of
these mutations, is not long enough for their complete
elimination by natural selection.

3. These mutations might occur spontaneously de novo
from time to time.

4. These mutations might also be responsible for
bisexuality in some individuals.

Cheers,

Santosh

Re: [Goanet]Dr. Helekar is pro-science, but is known to lose his cool

[Santosh Helekar]

--- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>However, I was never able to understand why that led
>to extreme umbrage at the notion that people should
>still watch where they sat in a public place, the
only >point I was trying to make.  I failed to get him
to >see this point.  I unintentionally succeeded in
making >him lose his cool.
> 

The point was never an issue.  There simply was a need
for a strong defense against unwarranted name-calling.
The appearance of losing one's cool is a good defense
tactic to intimidate an aggressor, especially in an
internet forum where people cannot see you laughing in
front of your computer screen. However, one can get
carried away sometimes.

Cheers,

Santosh

[Goanet]Gilbert's Sexual behavior ani Gene Mutation

[gilbertlaw]

Jose colaco to Gilbertbab ani response
 
Once again . I ask because I do not know

> 1. Does this mean that you accept that Evolution occurs?
GL answer: YES 

> 2. Wonder what Santosh's Bambino firnd will say IF he reads this.
GL answer: Don't know. :=))

> 3. Does gene mutation occur through evolution ?
GL answer:  YES

> 4. Would you please profer us any scientific (or empiric) examples of Good 
> Gene Mutation ?
GL answer: Darwin's theory of survival of the fittest.

> good wishes
GL answer:  Same to YOU
Regards. GL

[Goanet]Re: Fr. Ivo on Dr. Helekar 2

[Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza]

Jose Colaco wrote:
   Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza responded:

*--First, even empirical science, to which he has committed himself, does not 
offer us always objectivity, as Dr.Santosh himself admits.

Secondly, Truth is not exhausted by empirical science. Let us also listen to 
Metaphysics, Theology, Spirituality.

--

Dear Fr. Ivo,

Thanks for your response.

   >I don't for one second, doubt my good colleague Santoshbab's commitment to 
Science.

*--What is at stake is not Dr.Santosh's commitment to Science, but its 
absolutization...


   >However, I wonder

1. If you truly answered the question (mine) which you purport to have 
answered above.

   *--The answer has been repeated in my posts, namely that in Science there 
are still "mysteries", as Dr.Santosh himself admits that there is still not 
objective evidence for Big Bang Theory. We know that there are several points 
to be enlightened...

2. What you meant by "empirical science".

>After all, there are two ways of looking at "empirical"

a:) One that is based on observation or experiment, and is reproducable by 
experiment

b:) One that relies on quackery

*--When I speak of empirical Science, it is Science, not quackery...

>I believe that we do not know the full Truth, and fully agree with you that 
we should listen to Metaphysics, Theology, Spirituality. Somewhere in-between 
lies the point nearest to the truth.

   *--There are several avenues for Truth, not only empirical Science... We 
are still groping in the darkness. Let us enjoy the Light that we have...

>My problem is not so much with listening to Metaphysics, Theology, 
Spirituality as much as it is with listening to Metaphysicists, Theologians 
and the so called Spiritualists.
(I am sure they say the same about physicians !)

   *--This is your personal problem. You should learn to be critical and 
discern where the Truth is...

Ivo da C.Souza

[Goanet]Re: Sexual behavior - normal/abnormal

[George Pinto]

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> GL responds:
> I was inquiring from an Psychiatrist (non-Catholic and non-Christian) about 
> the 'normal' sexual
> behavior of homosexuals. He was definitely not homo-phobic or what ever word 
> one wants to use. 
> Neither was he a moralist.  As a psychiatrist, he was pro-homosexuals.
> 
> He dismissed calling their sexual behavior normal.  According to him, "An 
> average sexual contact
> of a homosexual through his / her life is about 100 DIFFERENT individuals."  
> He went on to say,
> "How can that be considered normal ... even for heterosexuals?"


This is an arbitary conversation leading to a reckless conclusion.  Are the 100 
DIFFERENT
individuals based on some study?  Which one?  What if the 100 individuals each 
used condoms and
protection, a normal thing for such behavior versus a heterosexual who had 5 
partners but none of
whom used protection.  Is normality a numerical understanding or a qualitative, 
responsibility and
accountability based definition?

Regards,
George 

[Goanet]From The Outer Harbour

[Thalmann Pereira]

Introducing the signed column "FROM THE OUTER HARBOUR" scheduled to appear 
every Monday in the weekly "Harbour Times" published from Vasco-da-Gama, Goa.

Regards,
-Thalmann

View From The Outer Harbour

SUNDAY... OR  MONDAY ??

by :  Thalmann Pradeep Pereira


The Gregorian calendar considers Sunday to be the first day of the week. 
Strange isn’t it? Because, the Bible says that God rested on the seventh day – 
not on the first. Protestants, however, keep their Sabbath on Saturday, and 
start a fresh week on Sunday. Ask a Goan in the Gulf, and he will tell you 
that Friday is the Sunday there! But every Goan in Goa considers a new week to 
begin on Monday. Saturday and Sunday are considered to be the week-end. For a 
Government servant, the week-end begins on Friday evening itself. And for 
some “public servants” the whole week is a week-end!

“The Harbour Times” comes to you every Monday. Beginning a fresh new week for 
you. And “View From The Outer Harbour” intends to take a fresh new look at 
things. Tongue-in-cheek, if possible, but definitely with a view to spur 
change on the mainland. If the first day of the week is good, there can be no 
harm in expecting the whole week to be good. Every one believes that the taste 
of one can determine the taste of all seven.

On 2nd June,2005, though, the fruit of 5 will truly determine the fate of the 
remaining 35. The fate of the whole of Goa will be determined by the five bye-
elections. Truly, a case of the tail wagging the dog. Most Goans know that the 
central issue is to defeat the neo-fascist communal forces and re-establish 
secularism and democracy as the guiding principles of good governance. So even 
rank opportunists and yesterday’s “pillars of communalism” are swearing by 
secularism today. Progressive Goans know that the need of the hour is for the 
secular forces to unite on the basis of a Common Minimum Programme for Goa. 
The secular parties in the fray, however, seem to be thinking that they can 
harvest a bumper crop of votes by simply beating their breasts and shouting 
and screaming “S-E-C-U-L-A-R-I-S-M”.

Some of our learned friends in the Congress party seem to even think that the 
Congress-NCP Alliance will win by merely disputing that the correct word 
is “by-election” and not “bye-election”. The people have already consulted 
their dictionaries to learn that both spellings are acceptable. They are now 
eagerly awaiting the day when the Congress-NCP leaders will understand the 
difference between “Ideology” and “Demagogy”.

Sadly, these two parties cannot even boast of a poet’s cell to tell them that 
the two words do not even rhyme. The slip of their jokers’ cell is already 
showing.

For BJP, “scorched earth” seems to be the best policy. They have even accused 
the Governor of violating the Election Commission’s Code of  Conduct. Perhaps, 
Governor Jamir can now bare his “conscience”, in response. The BJP has fallen 
back upon its “soul” to redeem itself. Its list of candidates, this time, 
seems to have been finalised in Nagpur. For the BJP, Sunday seems to be longer 
than its Monday. But, who knows, the BJP may yet still form a government on 
6th June. All Goans can then sit back and expect Sunday to be abolished from 
the next list of Goa Government holidays.

Then there will be no more controversy as to which is the first day of the 
week.

Till the next Monday, then, Happy Thinking!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
“Harbour Times” (23-5-2005)

[Goanet]Re: Sexual Orientation

[Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza]

   Mervyn asks:
   >"What do we do with any homosexual catholic priests?"

 *--I have already answered that all homosexuals should be treated with 
love and compassion. In order to help them, study their family background. In 
addition, regarding the future priests, discern before they are ordained for 
Priesthood. If this happens, or is discovered later on, let the Superiors help 
them to change their orientation, or decide what to do...

   Ivo da C.Souza

[Goanet]Gilbert's Sexual behavior ani Gene Mutation

[jose colaco]

From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: makes an individual a biologically better individual and nature wants it 
transmitted to make a better species.>



Dear Gilbertbab,

Once again . I ask because I do not know

1. Does this mean that you accept that Evolution occurs?

2. Wonder what Santosh's Bambino firnd will say IF he reads this.

3. Does gene mutation occur through evolution ?

4. Would you please profer us any scientific (or empiric) examples of Good 
Gene Mutation ?


good wishes

jc

_
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[Goanet]Re: *** Goanet Reader: Goa needs it's big, majestic trees

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

> DO YOU FEEL THE CHILL NEAR SANGOLDA? OR,  WHY GOA NEEDS TO RE-PLANT TREES
> 
> By Paul Fernandes
> 

May 23

Hi,

I had the pleasure of meeting the 2004 Nobel Prize winner, the Hon'ble 
Wingari Mute Maathai, and she has done a fantastic job in Kenya over the past 
decade.  She started the Greenbelt Movement, and the Nobel Prize committee 
decided to give the prize to the 'environment' sector.

It is adamant that in India we plant at least two trees for every citizen.

A suggestion.

Albuquerque

[Goanet]Old Friend

[Jane Glanville]

I am looking for an old friend called Dolly D'Oliveira from Goa.  I knew her 
in London over 35 years ago! (We lived in a YWCA Hostel).  Could you tell me 
where I might be able to track her down?  I know she was from Goa but I don't 
know where.  Many Thanks. J. Glanville

[Goanet]RE: OFFTOPIC -- Bad news: the gender divide in emailing... (Philip Thomas)

[Christina Pinto]

 
Hi guys.  Just on that, does anyone have any suggestions how we can
encourage the women on this forum to be more involved in discussions.
Not that there's anything wrong with just hearing men's views (yeah
right!!), we need to explore more views from women.  Any suggestions??
Have some sort of Women's Day or something, I don't know, just thinking
aloud here. 
   
4. RE: OFFTOPIC -- Bad news: the gender divide in emailing... (Philip
Thomas)
 
Message: 4
From: "Philip Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 10:24:09 +0530
Subject: [Goanet]RE: OFFTOPIC -- Bad news: the gender divide in
emailing...

This is bad news! And to think that on Goanet all the men have been
succesful in pushing off the women -- almost,> [Fred Noronha, May 22]

Glad somebody has figured out what the study and its implications are.
Its just as well that it is Fred as it should come in  handy for
boosting effective participation on goanet from time to time.  My own
hunch is that the findings may only be applicable to goanet in the very
broadest sense because the focus of the study was apparently on "task
oriented" emails (i.e. do this or do that) and not generalised
discussion of the type we engage in. Maybe this is why the gender divide
is as pronounced as Fred seems to have us believe.

[Goanet]June dance in Brisbane to support 'JAN UGAHI' in Goa

[Joy de Souza]

Club de Goa, Brisbane is celebrating Carnival in June due to the hot weather 
conditions during the actual Carnival period earlier this year. This is a 
very affordable function being $5/ head and all money collected will go 
towards the street kid refuge in Goa 'JAN UGAHI'


The dance is being held at Nolan Hall on Leslie Street, Nundah from 7 pm 
onwards on the 25th June 2005 and it is BYO food and drink. Snacks and meals 
will be sold on the day. DJ Brian Franz in attendance so come along for some 
fun and also to help a worthy trust in Goa. RSVP is essential prior to June 
16th. Red and Black attire is essential.


For those that cannot make the dance and would still like to donate money to 
the trust please contact Greg D'Costa, Director of the trust in Goa directly 
or contact me here in Australia.


Joy de Souza
President (Club de Goa) Brisbane
Australia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Res (07) 33418912
Mo  0438 711806

[Goanet]Re: Sexual behavior - normal/abnormal

[gilbertlaw]

GL responds:

I was inquiring from an Psychiatrist (non-Catholic and non-Christian) about the 
'normal' sexual behavior of homosexuals. He was definitely not homo-phobic or 
what ever word one wants to use.  Neither was he a moralist.  As a 
psychiatrist, he was pro-homosexuals.

He dismissed calling their sexual behavior normal.  According to him, "An 
average sexual contact of a homosexual through his / her life is about 100 
DIFFERENT individuals."  He went on to say, "How can that be considered normal 
... even for heterosexuals?"

That is why I asked those questions about the acceptable sexual behavior of any 
society even when there are 'no consequences'.  

If one is thinking of No Consequences - there is a whole category of STD 
(sexually transmitted diseases).  Now one may say, "That has nothing to do with 
sexuality or having multiple partners."  Yea!:=))

A 'good gene mutation' through evolution makes an individual a biologically 
better individual and nature wants it transmitted to make a better species.  
How can a homosexual gene mutation be nature's design to improve the biologic 
species - since there is no chance of its propagation?
Regards, GL
 

Santosh Helekar 
> I can accept homosexuality as normal because, as I stated earlier,
> psychological and sociological research has shown that it does not
> produce any adverse personal, interpersonal or social effects. At
> the genetic level, this behavioral variation might be, at least in
> part, accounted for by variations or mutations in the sequence of some
> genes. In other words, these genetic mutations might determine whether
> a person becomes a homosexual, bisexual or heterosexual.
> 
> A gene variation/mutation does not necessarily make a person abnormal
> at the phenotypic level. For example, a gene mutation can confer
> longevity. Longevity is not regarded as an abnormality. A gene
> mutation could lead to a high IQ. A genius is not an abnormal person.
> A mutation can enhance memory. All inborn creative skills are most
> likely the result of mutations in several genes. None of them are
> regarded as abnormal.
> Cheers,

Ivo da C.Souza's post"

Dr.Santosh Kelekar wrote:
"I can accept homosexuality as normal because, as I stated earlier, 
psychological and sociological research has shown that it does not produce any 
adverse personal, interpersonal or social effects".

*--First, does it not produce any adverse effects?
   Secondly, even conceding it, could we say that it is "normal" and 
morally right, because of lack of consequences?

  We have to deal with these two points. They are not rhetorical 
questions. They are thought-provoking. I leave it open for reflection...

[Goanet]HiPC international conference in Goa

[Frederick Noronha (FN)]

http://www.hipc.org/

HiPC 2005, December 18-21, Goa India

HiPC is an international meeting on high performance computing. It serves as a 
forum to present current work by researchers from around the world as well as 
highlight activities in Asia in the high performance computing area. The 
meeting emphasizes both design and analysis of high performance computing 
systems and their scientific, engineering and commercial applications.


END OF FORWARDED MESSAGE
..
Frederick (FN) Noronha | Freelance Journalist | Mobile +91 9822 122436
Tel +91.832.2409490| http://fn.swiki.net  | http://www.bytesforall.net
..

Re: [Goanet]Re: Floriano Lobo's trip to the election ring

[jose colaco]

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

question about corruption. They think that corruption is OK as long as it 
does good to them. Why can't the CHURCH take a stand on corruption?. Even if 
they do. the CHURCH is not doing enough. That is why we have crooks and 
thieves elected. They don't care about Goa but "ME has to be happy". "IT IS 
ALL ABOUT ME".  That is why very few good honest people get elected.

Wish Floriano the best!!! >


Mogal Carlos,

I agree with you wrt the following

1. Many Goans that corruption is OK as long as it does good to them

2. The Alibabas don't care about Goa (as long as) "ME has to be happy". 
Let's say a special Jai Hind for that.


3. "IT IS ALL ABOUT ME".

4.  very few good honest people get elected in Goa. Let's say a special Jai 
Hind for that.


5.  Wish Floriano the best!!!


Here is where I disagree with you:

1. <" Why can't the CHURCH take a stand on corruption? ". >

BTW when last have you been to church in Goa?  Maybe you do not/cannot 
understand that poorly constructed nasal-dialect of Marathi pretending to be 
Konkani that is heard in the churches of Goa.


2. <"Even if they do. the CHURCH is not doing enough".>

Again, I am a strong believer of separation of Church and State. Otherwise 
we'd be no different from those Islamic fundamentalists who are now taking 
control of the deserts, and those Hindu fundamentalist who are trying to 
make a comeback in your favourite country.


Not to forget the Rt. Wing Christians wherever they exist & their 
apologists.


just my view

jc

_
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[Goanet]Dr. Helekar is pro-science, but is known to lose his cool

[Mario Goveia]

Alfred de Tavares <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Very well expressed, Santosh, you and Mario, carry
debate back to GBS-GKC level, leaving us PGWs
chuckling
merrilly...
> 
From: Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >I will let you in on a secret about me.  I take
criticism much better than praise.

Mario responds:
Let's not all get carried away here.  I did say that
Dr. Helekar was fastidiously objective, TO A FAULT.
What I essentially opined was that he is not
anti-religion per se, he is really pro-science across
the board and lets the chips fall where they may.  A
scientist is trained to not take anything on "faith",
hence the false impression that he is anti-religion
since religion is founded on faith.  Dr. Helekar is
doggedly consistent in relying on science and
empirical evidence, but this may sometimes lead to a
misunderstanding or misinterpreting someone else's
motives, perhaps inadvertantly.  

For example, in the infamous Battle of the Behinds, he
was able to clearly show with statistical evidence
that there was LITTLE risk to the public from
AIDS-infected needles left in public places.  However,
I was never able to understand why that led to extreme
umbrage at the notion that people should still watch
where they sat in a public place, the only point I was
trying to make.  I failed to get him to see this
point.  I unintentionally succeeded in making him lose
his cool.

The hoax email I initially posted was bogus as an
issue, as any review of the archives will prove that I
never disputed George Pinto's disclosure of this
message as a hoax, and in fact, immediately informed
the entire list of people who received that email
along with me of the hoax.  What some may have
misunderstood was that I had chided George in my
response to him about some smart-alecky comments he
had made on unrelated matters.

My suggestion was somehow interpreted as a slap at
people who may leave AIDS-infected needles in public
places, whereas I could care less about THEIR motives.
 Surely Dr. Helekar will agree that LOW probability
doesn't mean NO possibility, and I'm also sure Dr.
Helekar knows that when someone is suspected of being
exposed to AIDS, whether through an infected needle or
not, it takes months of painstaking medical tests and
check-ups before they can resume their normal lives,
free from dread that they may have contracted this
deadly disease.  This is what motivated me, not any
hostility towards AIDS patients, drug users, empirical
scientists or anyone else for that matter.

Re: [Goanet] Fr. Ivo on Dr. Helekar

[Santosh Helekar]

I admit I am very confused by Fr. Ivo's posts. It is
impossible for me to address all his points, so I will
just briefly respond to four of them here.

--- "Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> 
>*--First, even empirical science, to which he has
>committed himself, does not offer us always
>objectivity, as Dr.Santosh himself admits.
>

I don't know what Fr. Ivo is referring to here. But
let me just say that if I have admitted anything then
it is the fact that science deals in tentative
conclusions. Science always tries to offer us
objectivity. When there are no objective facts to back
a given scientfic hypothesis it regards it as
"unproven", and actively considers its alternatives.

>
>Thirdly, quantum mechanics cannot explain creation of
>something from nothing.
>

Not true at all. It very well can. The Casimir effect
is one such instance. In fact, as I have mentioned a
couple of times already, experiments on zero-point
energy have already shown something emerging from
nothing. One of the first such experiments were done
by Lamoreaux and Sen. 

>
>Spontaneous generation theory has been superseded.   
  
>

The old 18th century spontaneous generation theory is
obsolete. Several decades of research on chemical
evolution of life have shown that large organic and
biologically active molecules can be spontaneously
generated from simpler inorganic molecules. Modern
molecular biology has shown that there are no
theoretical barriers to spontaneous self-assembly of
macromolecular pathways that constitute and represent
life.

>
>"God not only plays dice. He sometimes throws
>them where they can't be seen." 
> 

I hope statements like the above by individual
scientists are not taken to mean that science has
discovered the existence of God. The above statement
is  purely a metaphorical description of quantum
mechanics and hypothesized physical objects such as
black holes.

Cheers,

Santosh 

[Goanet]Re: False assertions – by George!

[George Pinto]

Folks,

I apologize for Joe Vaz wasting your bandwidth.  He has not offered one 
substantive point to
counter the facts pointed out.  He is upset by my comments but has not spoken a 
word when a
like-minded person in his group used the phrase "sick and depraved" to refer to 
people who
occasionally raise church issues.  Their name-calling, personal attacks, spring 
from their own
insecurity of their beliefs. His understanding of current church theology is a 
10 year-old in
catechism class.  I have no problem with 10 year-olds or catechism class, 
except when adults wear
their holy-than-thou attitude on their religious sleeve in public.  I can only 
take them seriously
when their offer a balanced view and acknowledge some of the issues raised.  

Since Joe Vaz and others are not offering any substantive points to discuss, 
this is my final
post.  They are not interested in serious discussion except to malign people 
and their views - and
waste bandwidth in the process.

Regards,
George

Re: [Goanet] Sexual attitudes

[Santosh Helekar]

--- "Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>I cannot accept it. There are psychological effects,
>whether you call it "sickness" or not. More than
that, >there are social effects.
> 

Fr. Ivo, What are the psychological and social
effects?  Do you have evidence to support your
assertion?

>
>*--First, it has psychological and social
>consequences.
>

Please tell me what they are, and how you know you are
right.

>
>Secondly, we cannot follow a reductionist approach.
>Only empirical Science cannot provide an answer. The
>answer should be holistic. 
>

Why? What is a holistic answer in this specific case?

Cheers,

Santosh

[Goanet]Gilbert's accusation

[Cecil Pinto]

Cip Fernandes asked me:
Is there anything for human beings to experience beyond 'Rational
reasoning'?





Dear Cip,

Definitely there is.

Cecil

[Goanet]Re: Dr. Helekar is pro-science, not anti-religion

[Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza]

Fr. Ivo wrote:
>
>The Universe is not eternal, it had a beginning.
>Science alone cannot explain how it began. Space and
>time came through the power of the Super-power, GOD.
>

The above statement is somewhat at odds with Fr. Ivo’s
earlier claim that he “never said that Faith should
supplant Science in explaining certain natural
phenomena.” It clearly seems now that he wants Science
to accept the notion that “space and time came through
the power of the Super-power, GOD”.

   *--I have repeated ad nauseam that the dogma of Creation is a theological 
statement, not a scientific hypothesis. Therefore, whether Science accepts or 
not that there is Super-power, Theology does. Faith does not explain "certain 
natural phenomena"... There is no contradiction in my statements...

Ivo da C.Souza

Re: [Goanet]Re: Floriano Lobo's trip to the election ring

[carlos6143]

jose colaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
Not because you (and others with your ability, zeal and love for Goa) 

are not the best for Goa, but because of our Goemcars. 
 
I am not yet convinced that the very same Goans who complain about 

corruption, will not vote for the corrupt ones . once again 
 
 Dear Jose,

Very true. But I will even go further. I think many Goans do not even 
question about corruption. They think that corruption is OK as long as 
it does good to them. Why can't the CHURCH take a stand on corruption?. 
Even if they do. the CHURCH is not doing enough. That is why we have 
crooks and thieves elected. They don't care about Goa but "ME has to be 
happy". "IT IS ALL ABOUT ME".

That is why very few good honest people get elected.
Wish Floriano the best!!!

Best Regards,
Carlos
 

Re: [Goanet]Double-digit growth - but what about public behavior?

[Mario Goveia]

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> http://in.rediff.com/money/2005/may/18cii.htm 
>  
> Advani's 5-point plan for double-digit growth 
>  
> May 18, 2005 18:05 IST - Rediff 
>  
Mario asks:
Great plan, which may even work.  I wonder if Advani,
or anyone else has a plan to stop all the spitting,
throwing thrash in someone else's yard, and the
urinating and defecating in public, even when there is
a public toilet available.

Maybe others have seen such public behavior in other
parts of the world, but I have not, even in the slums
in Jamaica, Mexico and Puerto Rico.  

Re: [Goanet]The "Cecil" Water melon ?!

[eric pinto]

The kinship is distant, via New Mexico and Yucatan
agave, a desert cactus that is essential to the making
of tequila, which can pull rank on the  watermelon
liquoer - Midori. One can make a case for mixing the
two, Cecil and i will probably indulge sometime soon,
will ask you join us ! eric.
--- V Fading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Heya Eric Pinto,
>  
> Dunno much about seeds n stuffbut i can tell u
> one thing Goa has enuf 
> of ?...dats da "Cecil" Watermelonthey package it
> Expressively n send it 
> out to cheer people in and around Goa..really
> worth a try...Ppl hv landed 
> in looney bins from too much "Cecil " Incidently
> is the "Cecil " 
> Watermelon any relative???
>  
> Take care
>  
> Eat more fruit !
>  
> Viveca
> (Malaysia)
> 
> 



__ 
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Re: [Goanet]Dr. Helekar is pro-science, not anti-religion

[Mario Goveia]

--- Gabe Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I do not understand the above para.'When
we die the religious types will discover whether we
placed our faith unwisely and wasted plenty of time
and money in return for some temporal peace of
mind'. If there is nothing after life what the hell
will we discover - sure that will be it, finito!
> 
Furthermore the only outcome would be, if there is
an after death existence. In that case the non
believers and their kind will be in a flux. The
question is whether they will be judged for their
beliefs on Earth, or whether everyone is expected to
believe come what may.
> 
Mario sighs before explaining:
Gabe, you need to unwind a little and not take
yourself so seriously.  I was speaking figuratively,
not literally.  You have to loosen up and use your
imagination to understand what I am saying.  The point
I was making had less to do with whether there was no
God, which means "finito" as you say, than if there is
a God.  Can't you see that the discovery that there is
a God will shock our non-believing friends?

I made no judgement about "how the hell" they will be
judged.  That is something you seem to be concerned
about.  I am happy to leave those decisions up to God.

[Goanet]RE: *** Researching the Souto-maior family (Goa)

[Lalita Dias]

Hi Varun

Congratulation on the restoration!

I am not sure if I am of any help to you but I do remember typing  a 
translation of a WILL(from Portuguese)  for one Mr. Noronha. I can't remember 
his first name. Mr. Noronha sadly passed away some years ago. Late Noronha was 
translating this WILL for Mr. Caitan Martin from Caranzalem, Panjim-Goa. He is 
the owner of MARTIN'S BEACH CORNER, Caranzalem. Martin's Beach Corner is on 
the road going to Dona Paula. I am not sure if this has any connection to the 
Souto maiors you are interested in. I used to do a lot of work for Mr. Martin 
and Mr. Noronha.
Since I am not in Goa any more, I cannot give you all the information - 
tel.nos., full names, etc. but you should be able to find Martin's Beach 
Corner, Caranzalem easily.
This WILL had something to do with the land around Caranzalem-Goa. I cannot 
say more than that.
Please use this information if its of any assistance to you for your research 
by contacting Mr. Caitan Martins. As I have said before, I M NOT SURE IF HE 
CAN HELP YOU.
Good luck!
Lalita Diniz
p.s. I would like to remain anonymous please...
 

[Goanet]Thankyou - Nairobi Institute Centenary Celebrations Committee ..CCC

[Paloma Fernandes]

DeadlineFunction
1st June ˆ BBQ on the 4th of June
4th June ˆ Cocktail on the 8th of June
4th June ˆ Sing Along on the 10th of June
8th June ˆ The Grand Anniversary Ball 
The Concert and the Farewell Functions will be open,
but we recommend that you make your bookings early as
well.

Season ticket holders paying after the above mentioned
deadlines will receive their seasons tickets less the
tickets for functions where bookings have closed. E.g
Person paying for a season ticket on the 2nd will NOT
receive ticket for BBQ to be held on the 4th.

Please do not miss this opportunity to participate in
a once in a lifetime experience.

With best regards

The Registration Committee of the Centenary Celebrations...

__
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

[Goanet]Re: Fr. Ivo on Dr. Helekar

[Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza]

"Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza" wrote:

   "I only fear that his "beliefs and opinions" may not always be 
"shaped" by "objective facts and scientific evidence"...
   
Jose Colaco asks:
   "Would you please advise us on what "objective facts and scientific 
evidence" you think so?

   *--First, even empirical science, to which he has committed himself, does 
not offer us always objectivity, as Dr.Santosh himself admits.

  Secondly, Truth is not exhausted by empirical science. Let us also 
listen to Metaphysics, Theology, Spirituality.

  Thirdly, quantum mechanics cannot explain creation of something from 
nothing. Spontaneous generation theory has been superseded.  

  Stephen Hawking pokes fun at Albert Einstein for not believing in 
quantum mechanics. When asked why he did not believe in quantum mechanics, 
Einstein would sometimes say things like "God doesn't play dice with the 
Universe." On one such occasion, Niels Bohr is said to have responded "Albert, 
stop telling God what He can do." Hawking's adroit response to Einstein is 
that "God not only plays dice. He sometimes throws them where they can't be 
seen." 

Ivo da C.Souza

Re: [Goanet]Hell?

[Mario Goveia]

--- Cecil Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear Mario,
> 
> What exactly is HELL? Please give me your concept
and description of HELL, and why one should be so
scared of it. And where did you get this concept of
HELL, to which God can banish one for all eternity,
from anyway?
> 
Mario replies:
Cecil, you, too, need to unwind a little and not take
yourself so seriously.  I once heard the great Louis
Armstrong tell a reporter in Bombay who asked him to
explain "Jazz", "Man, if you have to ask, you'll never
know".  The same goes for you.

It matters little what I believe HELL is like.  You
are free to believe it is a wonderful place.  There
are some men who believe that milk and honey and 72
virgins await them when they get there.

[Goanet]Re: Sexual attitudes/Orientation

[Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza]

   Cornel wrote in reply to Dr.Santosh:
   "Thank you for such clarity in the post below. For some time, I have 
wondered how it was possible for Fr. Ivo to get it so wrong on homosexuality. 
But then, I feel that his requirement to follow the official teaching of the 
Vatican comes in the way of thinking for oneself. Of course, Fr.Ivo, whom I 
respect for his integrity, would disagree with me on homosexuality and so be 
it.
   Incidentally, I prefer the term homosexual disposition(s) rather than 
homosexual attitudes as per your subject".

*--1.Am I wrong in saying that homosexuality is abnormal or morally wrong, 
though we have to treat the homosexuals with love and concern? 
   2.When I follow the "official teaching" of the Church, because I find 
the rationale behind the teaching and regulation sound, "does the Vatican 
come "in the way of thinking for oneself"? 
   3.What do you have to say to my question?
>>Can you accept it (homosexuality) as normal? A mutation of genes may
>>make someone a cleptomaniac or a masochist or sadist or sexually aberrant.
>>Can you accept it? Would you approve of incest, pedophilia, sexual 
aberrations? 
>>
>
4.I did not use the expression "Sexual attitudes", but just pursued an 
earlier post. 

[Goanet]Re: Sexual behavior - normal/abnormal

[Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza]

   Gilbert wrote in reply to Dr.Santosh:
   "I did not know that you and Fr. Ivo and Nasci had defined parameters of 
discussion... Sometimes I get the feeling that your agnostic belief (which is 
perfectly acceptable to me) goes into anti-Religion, which may be going over-
board". 

   *--My approach is holistic, global, not reductionist. Science has a role to 
play, but also Philosophy (Ethics) and Theology (Moral) in this issue. From 
what I gather in discussion with Dr.Santosh is that he is "agnostic" (nothing 
beyond empirical Science), not anti-Religion. I presume that he would accept 
the tenets of Religion, if they can also be proved empirically...
   
   "Homosexuality is a variation at the behavioral level". Should not the 
discussion include all sexual behavior of society? And if not sexual behavior 
what variation are we talking specific to homosexuals?"

*--A good question--to be answered in the context from scientific angle 
only...

   "Now to the question of homo-sexual gene defect.  I am glad you agree that 
homosexuality has "most likely a genetic explanation, in terms of mutation of 
one or more genes."  In the past defining an illness or pathology was easy - a 
situation that caused symptoms and needs medical treatment". 
 
   "Is pedophilia a (treatable or yet untreatable) homosexual illness in 
addition to being a crime?  If this is the case, then there are two victims. 

   "To the geneticists when does a variant end and an abnormality/ pathology 
begin?"

The three questions can go together. 1.Even if homosexuality is given 
a "genetic explanation", what is the role of Ethics in this field? 2.What does 
Science have to say regarding pedophilia? Is it illness? Crime? Is it 
treatable?
   3.Is a mutation of genes always "normal" and acceptable? When is 
it "abnormal" and pathological? What is the criterion to judge?
Gilbert has raised interesting points. Can empirical Science alone answer 
these three questions?
Ivo da C.Souza 

[Goanet]Party Smart -good news to the Bebd community...

[Lorenzo Da Goa]

The Economic Times Online 
Printed from economictimes.indiatimes.com > Financial Times
-


TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ FRIDAY, MAY 06, 2005 02:37:02 AM] 
Sign into earnIndiatimes points 
BANGALORE: Herbal Science, a company set up in Bangalore in late 2004,
has announced the launch of their first product — Party Smart. The
product, researched and developed by the Himalaya Drug Company, is a
herbal formulation that prevents hangovers. "Party Smart doesn't
enhance or diminish your high," reassured Mr Farid Humayun, vice
president, marketing and operations, Herbal Sciences.

Alcohol consumption may give rise to headaches, nausea, fatigue and
other unpleasant symptoms, commonly referred as the "morning after."

Though partially excreted through urine or sweat, alcohol is mainly
converted into toxic acetaldehyde causing the above mentioned
unpleasant symptoms.

"Taking one capsule half an hour before alcohol consumption prevents
the accumulation of acetaldehyde in the body," explained Dr SK Mitra,
executive director, research and technical services, Himalaya Drug
Company. However, though Party Smart can prevent hangovers, it can
certainly not prevent the long term consequences of excessive alcohol
consumption, reminded Dr Mitra.

The product has already been test marketed in many cities in India for
the last two and a half years by the Himalaya Drug company before
being sold to Herbal Science. "Party Smart didn't really fit with
Himalaya's image", said Mr Humayun.

Clinical trials have also been conducted at Kanpur Medical College and
in Himalaya research centre in Bangalore on 100 patients though no
women were included in the trials.

"Other lifestyle products are still to come," said Dr Mitra. The
company also has plans to distribute its products abroad through
global partners.

[Goanet]The "Cecil" Water melon ?!

[V Fading]

Heya Eric Pinto,
 
Dunno much about seeds n stuffbut i can tell u one thing Goa has enuf 
of ?...dats da "Cecil" Watermelonthey package it Expressively n send it 
out to cheer people in and around Goa..really worth a try...Ppl hv landed 
in looney bins from too much "Cecil " Incidently is the "Cecil " 
Watermelon any relative???
 
Take care
 
Eat more fruit !
 
Viveca
(Malaysia)

[Goanet]Re: Sexual attitudes

[Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza]

 Dr.Santosh wrote:
 "That subject heading was given by Fr. Ivo. I merely
hit the reply button. I would prefer your
characterization of it. Alternatively, homosexual
orientation".
   *--No, it is not "given by Fr.Ivo". I just pursued one earlier post. I 
never use this term in my posts.
 
Fr. Ivo wrote:
>First, does it (homosexuality) not produce any
>adverse effects?
>

   Dr.Santosh replied:
"Yes. As I have said many times now, homosexuality does
not produce any adverse psychological or social
effects".
   *--I cannot accept it. There are psychological effects, whether you call 
it "sickness" or not. More than that, there are social effects.

>Secondly, even conceding it, could we say that it is
>"normal" and morally right, because of lack of
>consequences?
> 

"Yes. As far as I am concerned, I do not want to pass
an arbitrary moral judgment against a behavioral trait
that does not have adverse psychological or social
consequences".
 *--First, it has psychological and social consequences.
Secondly, we cannot follow a reductionist approach. Only empirical 
Science cannot provide an answer. The answer should be holistic. In fact, this 
is the key to my answer. I have to agree to disagree with Dr.Santosh Helekar...

Ivo da C.Souza

[Goanet]Credibility, Corruption Major Problems of PM Manmohan Singh

[Goa-World.Com <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

Credibility, Corruption Major Problems of PM Manmohan Singh

By Rajeev Srinivasan

NEW DELHI, May 21: The French have been the most regular practitioners of the 
vaguely risqué art of cohabitation, that is, the balancing of multiple centers 
of power in an administration. 


For instance, a socialist president and a conservative prime minister who 
share power. The internal contradictions in this arrangement are such that not 
much gets done: the various parties have too many pet shibboleths that they 
would not sacrifice even if it killed them.

India has just gone through a year of cohabitation, aptly summed up by the 
phrase: 'PM, Super-PM, and CPM'. There is the nominal PM, Manmohan Singh; the 
Super-PM, Madame Gandhi, who, constitutionally speaking, has no power, but 
that is just the theory; and the Community Party, Marxist, which threatens to 
pull down the minority UPA government. This is hardly a recipe for success, 
and it shows.

It amuses me that Manmohan Singh's name is never mentioned without the 
descriptive phrase 'the architect of India's economic reforms' being added to 
it, so much so that he should trademark it. It reminds me of the fact that 
Benazir Bhutto's name used to similarly carry an inevitable suffix, 'educated 
at Radcliffe and Oxford' as part of the attempt to portray Pakistan as 
a 'modern, model, moderate' Muslim country.

Unfortunately, despite this pedigree, Singh and company (especially Finance 
Minister P Chidambaram) have not been able to make much of an impact on the 
economic front. Despite great expectations, they have accomplished little in 
this full year of their rule. A pessimist would wonder India is heading back 
to the bad old days of the Nehruvian Rate of Growth of 3 per cent.

The statistics of growth are not by any means stellar. The momentum of the 
last few years of sustained growth is not there. The recent Budget has been 
seen as uninspired, except when it comes to particularly strange ideas about 
taxing corporate fringe-benefits and withdrawals of as little as Rs 10,000 in 
cash.

There are at least three problems the Singh government faces: credibility, 
massive corruption, and Marxists.

1. Credibility: Singh is not a politician, never actually having won any 
elections. Most observers suggest that he is a decent man who understands 
economics. However, it is also abundantly clear to the casual observer that he 
is holding the fort until the next Nehru Dynasty scion, Rahul Gandhi, can be 
anointed as prime minister. Therefore it is a little hard for Singh to act 
decisively, for he can be over-ruled by any of Sonia Gandhi's kitchen cabinet.

2. Massive Corruption: This is at two levels, one, the ordinary variety 
espoused by various scam-ridden individuals in government, and relating to 
money. This is a minor vice: after all, it is only money, and all politicians 
anywhere in the world are champions at feeding off the pork-barrel trough.

A much more major vice is the degradation of institutions. The Election 
Commission is under attack; the Supreme Court has come out with a number of 
unfathomable rulings that a neutral observer might say are ideologically 
slanted; the education system is being re-Stalinised; and the bureaucracy is 
salivating over increased rent-seeking for such inanities as the 'employment-
guarantee act'. A government that condones these is not helping the nation or 
the economy.

3. Obstructionism: And that too by committed Marxists. They are making merry 
with their usual espousal of policies guaranteed to perpetuate poverty: for 
instance, in obstructing foreign direct investment, and in the current 
brouhaha over special economic zones. By ensuring that restrictive labor laws 
will be re-imposed on the SEZs, they have handicapped them dramatically.

I wonder why they don't notice that their idol, China, does give complete 
freedom to employers in their special economic zones. And oh, while they are 
at it, India's Marxists should also be asked to explain why the banned Survey 
of Chinese Peasants paints an unrelenting picture of rural China as a poverty-
ridden hell-hole as a result of following precisely the same anti-poor 
policies they, India's Marxists, espouse.

So much for the economy, supposedly Singh's strong suite. Foreign policy, as 
usual, is the Congress's worst area, as they have consistently failed to 
realize that it is India's interests they are supposed to look after, not 
someone else's. 

The current dispensation is especially into NAM and such-like; and all the 
billing and cooing with Pakistan's and China's dictators has produced 
practically nothing tangible other than increased Indian trade with China. 
This sounds impressive until one realizes that almost all the increased Indian 
exports to China are raw materials, especially iron ore.

China, in addition to its outposts at Gwadar and in the Andaman Sea, is 
rumored to be leasing an island from the Maldives.

[Goanet]HSC Results

[Shamine coutinho]

Dear Sir,

Do you know when the HSC results will be out this year ?

Rgds,

Shamine

[Goanet]Re: False assertions – by George!

[Joe Vaz]

--- Joe Vaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> An indebt analysis of your earlier posts will
reveal your (George Pinto’s) intentions and > mannerism in depicting the 
Church as being

“sexists” and “racist”.



George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> response:


The Catholic Church is 1.1 billion Catholics
and not just the Vatican.  I have rarely, if
ever, referred to the entire church in my comments.



George, so you are admitting by your statement: “I have RARELY, IF EVER 
referred to the entire church in my comments”?  This means that, yes there 
are instances where *you did refer to the entire church* as such?


Frankly, I don’t know what to make of your woolly statements.  I think that 
you are just about entertaining people on the Goanet, which you recently 
compared to — the Anjuna Flea Market (where everything goes)!  Good for you 
George, I hope you prosper in such company that considers Goanet as a “Flea 
Market” where you can display your tamasha, and inflammatory posts, without 
sufficient thought or reason.  Now at least we can see where all this is 
coming from.


Following are George’s posts from the archives of Goanet.  I hope that 
George will rescind his denial on the unfounded (provocative) statements he 
earlier made on this forum, after reading his previous posts and refreshing 
his memory. Also, think it would be an ethical thing to do, George?


George’s writings speak abundantly for themselves, and any sense (or 
nonsense) can be deduced therefrom. I don’t think this needs further debate. 
Note that there are several such posts on Goanet, by George, but for the 
sake of brevity, following are few examples:



From: "George Pinto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: goanet@goanet.org


--- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Why does the Catholic Church not permit women

priests?

George’s Response:
[Sexism.  There are no "doctrinal & theological"
reasons, just church practice.  Behind all the
fanciful fluff thrown around masquerading as
theological reasons is this first, fundamental
premise: women are less than men.  Following that
are a lot of false premises to justify the
conclusion.]


--- "Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza"


<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Cloning human beings should not be allowed.


George’s Response:


Isn't Pope Benedit XVI an exact clone of JP II?



Regards,
George


-

From: "George Pinto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: goanet@goanet.org



Mario Goveia replies:
George, a learned and highly educated person

like you…

George’s response:

Not true. Please take my word.
Girls in Afghanistan under the Taliban were

forbidden to attend schools, and women would

be beaten in public if the Morality Police as

much as caught a glimpse of their ankles

The last time I checked, all that women in the

Catholic Church were being excluded from

was the priesthood.


Regards,
George

-

From: "George Pinto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: goanet@goanet.org

--- Viviana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Fred - Women CAN become priests, but not in the

RC church.  If a woman

feels called to be a priest(ess), there are

MANY denominations for her

to choose from, so why not choose one of them

instead of banging her

head at the Vatican's door?  If she were really

and truly interested in

priesthood, and not just the evening news, a

woman can achieve that goal.


Viviana


George’s Response:
This is a bogus argument as the premises are
being changed. The argument all along has been women
becoming Catholic priests and not what other
denominations do or don't. To attack them as seeking
publicity on the evening news is an ad hominem
argument.

The lack of opportunity to become a woman priest
and the denial to women solely based on their
gender is tantamount to treating them as
second-class.  Much like the Taliban.

Regards,
George

-

George wrote:

If you do not  like the facts tell the Vatican,

they are

responsible  for the facts. They 'create' the

facts - elect

Popes, make saints who are mostly European. <



Joe’s Response:
George, is the Vatican also responsible for
continuously electing a “white” President so
far, in your adopted country the USA?

George writes:


I see no connection with the topic being
discussed.



Why, George, you cannot see the connection from your earlier statement 
above.  So, you think it is okay for you (as US Citizen) to have an ELECTED 
“white” PRESIDENT in the White House, but NOT an ELECTED POPE in the 
Vatican?  Smacks of double standards, George!



George deliberately dodges the following pointed questions:

GP earlier wrote:

A couple of questions:
1. Is God male, hence father?
2. Is God a white European male like most racist

pictures depict him to be?<

George, were you asking the above question liken to the INNOCENCE OF A CHILD 
or AS A THEOLOGIAN? As a practicing Catholic, did you not find the answers 
in t

[Goanet]FRIDAY BALCAO to focus on Impact of NBFC's scams on investors in Goa.

[Goa Desc]

--
Welcome to the FRIDAY BALCAO
Read the Balcao Synopsis on the website
http://www.goadesc.org/balcao/
--

Dear Cybergaokars on GoaNet,

Friday Balcao the fortnightly discussion event
to be held on 27th May will focus on the
Impact of Multi Level Marketing and NBFC's scams
on investors in Goa.

In the recent past there have been a spate of scams
being reported in connection with Multi Level Marketing
and NBFC's in Goa. These scams have impacted investors
in Goa to the tune of 100 crores and a lot more money lost
is yet to be reported.

The initial scams targeted a few investors who lost large
sums but now the trend is that a large number of small investors
in the villages especially women have become victims
of these frauds.

The recent cases of Salient Online Solutions Pvt. Ltd.,
Venus Life Marketing Ltd., Swarajya Multilink Marketing, Sungift
Marketing, Siffynet Solutions Pvt. Ltd., Rockland Leasing
are some examples of the problem facing investors in Goa.

What information must investors look for before investing
in NBFC's and Multi Level Marketing schemes ? What role
must the Economic Offences Cell of the Goa Police play to
effectively prevent such scams ? Are the Reserve Bank
of India (RBI) guidelines on NBFC's widely circulated in Goa ?
Is it necessary for the Goa Govt. to come forward with
additional legislation to prevent such scams ?

The Balcao discussion will cover these questions and
also evolve an agenda for action by citizens on the issue.

Friday Balcao will be from 4pm to 6pm
at the Goa Desc Resource Centre
No.11 Liberty Apartments Feira Alta,
Mapusa and is open to members of the public.

Those citizens who would like to receive
the regular invitation to Friday Balcao and a one page synopsis
of the fortnightly session can subscribe for the same
by sending Rs.100/- to cover printing and mailing costs.

Interested citizens wanting more information
on Friday Balcao can phone on 2252660
or by email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

best wishes,

Lillian D'Costa
===
GOA DESC RESOURCE CENTRE
Documentation + Education + Solidarity
11 Liberty Apts., Feira Alta, Mapusa, Goa 403 507
Tel: 2252660 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   website: www.goadesc.org
--
Working On Issues Of Development & Democracy
===

[Goanet]Fr. Ivo on Dr. Helekar 2

[jose colaco]

"Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza" wrote: < "I only fear that his (Santosh Helekar's) 
"beliefs and opinions" may not always be "shaped" by "objective facts and 
scientific evidence"...>



Jose Colaco asked: <"Would you please advise us on what "objective facts and 
scientific

evidence" you think so?>


Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza responded:

*--First, even empirical science, to which he has committed himself, does 
not offer us always objectivity, as Dr.Santosh himself admits.


Secondly, Truth is not exhausted by empirical science. Let us also listen to 
Metaphysics, Theology, Spirituality.


--

Dear Fr. Ivo,

Thanks for your response.

I don't for one second, doubt my good colleague Santoshbab's commitment to 
Science.


However, I wonder

1. If you truly answered the question (mine) which you purport to have 
answered above.


2. What you meant by "empirical science".

After all, there are two ways of looking at "empirical"

a:) One that is based on observation or experiment, and is reproducable by 
experiment


b:) One that relies on quackery


I believe that we do not know the full Truth, and fully agree with you that 
we should listen to Metaphysics, Theology, Spirituality. Somewhere 
in-between lies the point nearest to the truth.


My problem is not so much with listening to Metaphysics, Theology, 
Spirituality as much as it is with listening to Metaphysicists, Theologians 
and the so called Spiritualists.


(I am sure they say the same about physicians !)

good wishes as always

jc.

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[Goanet]Re: Floriano Lobo's trip to the election ring

[jose colaco]

From: goasuraj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



I appreciate  your help re: funds. But there is something like Indian 
political parties cannot avail of foreign funds.>


===

Mogal Florianobab,

I am troubled by your candidacy in Taleigao.

Not because you (and others with your ability, zeal and love for Goa) are 
not the best for Goa, but because of our Goemcars.



I am not yet convinced that the very same Goans who complain about 
corruption, will not vote for the corrupt ones . once again


I am not yet convinced that the very same Goans who complain about the Caste 
System, will not vote on the basis of Caste . once again


I am not yet convinced that the very same Goans who complain about 
Vandalism, will not vote for the vandals . once again


I am not yet convinced that the very same Goans who complain about religious 
intolerance, will not vote for the intolerant ones . once again


I am not yet convinced that the very same Goans who complain that Goans are 
still caught up in the time warp of the past, will not vote based on their 
own petty prejudices of the past . once again


I am not yet convinced that the very same Goan alleged-journos will not 
return to Sitting on the Fence . once again


I am not yet convinced that the very same Goan alleged-journos will not 
return to the beach and stick their heads right back into the sand . 
once again


I am not yet convinced that the very same Goan alleged-journos will not 
marginalise the true freedom fighters of Goa i.e. the activists . once 
again


From where I sit ..I see the following results in the remaining matches to 

be held in the first week of June

CASTE 2  Principle 0
POIXE 3  Principle 0

* Some Poixecars will be playing for the Caste Team

* Overall winners -> Poixe + Religious Intolerance

* Panjim to be renamed Navi Vheniss (New Venice) as soon as the Monsoons 
arrive


Good Wishes and ALl the best

jc

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Re: [Goanet]Re: Sexual attitudes

[Mervyn Lobo]

"Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dr.Santosh Kelekar wrote:
> 
>"I can accept homosexuality as normal because, as
> I stated earlier, psychological and sociological
> research has shown that it does not produce any
> adverse personal, interpersonal or social effects".
> 
> *--First, does it not produce any adverse
> effects?
>Secondly, even conceding it, could we say
> that it is "normal" and morally right, because of 
> lack of consequences?
> 
>   We have to deal with these two points. They
> are not rhetorical questions. They are thought-
> provoking. I leave it open for reflection...



Fr. Ivo da C.Souza,
There is a third question.
What do we do with any homosexual catholic priests?
Mervyn3.0


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[Goanet]Some photos of a Goan in cyberspace...

[Frederick Noronha]

Louis Photography
Anytime - Anywhere - All you do is call:
+61 (0)418 711 806
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.louisphotos.com.au
The world is my studio !
http://au.photos.yahoo.com/louisdigitalphotos1 Indian Bazaar 2003
(BNE) AUS.

http://au.photos.yahoo.com/clubdegoa Club de Goa photos (BNE) AUS.

http://au.photos.yahoo.com/indiabazaar2002 India bazaar photos (BNE)
AUS.

http://au.photos.yahoo.com/interclubcricket Softball cricket
tournament (BNE) AUS.
My prints are copyright and may not be reproduced by any means. If you
do require to reproduce them for any reason, please let me know and I
will quote you the full size files with full release.


Frederick Noronha 784 Near Convent, Sonarbhat SALIGAO GOA India
Freelance Journalist  TEL: +91-832-2409490 MOBILE: 9822122436
http://fn.swiki.net   http://www.livejournal.com/users/goalinks
fred at bytesforall.org   http://www.bytesforall.org

[Goanet]OFFTOPIC: Chennai and cancer

[Frederick Noronha]

Could Goa learn something from here? FN

http://www.i4donline.net/news1.asp?fol_name=Health&file_name=hea54
24-hour cancer helpline launched in Chennai

23 May, 2005

In Tamil Nadu, India, the Surgical Oncology Department of the Government 
Royapettah Hospital (GRH) has recently launched a 24-hour helpline and a 
year-long awareness campaign to disperse myths about cancer and highlight the 
benefits of early detection and treatment. The helpline number is 044-55167688. 

People with access to the Internet could address their queries to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and a panel of oncology experts would answer the queries. 

Source: The Hindu 



Frederick Noronha 784 Near Convent, Sonarbhat SALIGAO GOA India
Freelance Journalist  TEL: +91-832-2409490 MOBILE: 9822122436
http://fn.swiki.net   http://www.livejournal.com/users/goalinks
fred at bytesforall.org   http://www.bytesforall.org

[Goanet]Women with their sharp edge.....

[JoeGoaUk]

(With No Offence to Women, next post will be on 'Men')




What women are well known for??

Their Sharp edge tongue for gossipping 

Their Sharp edge knife for chopping veggies etc 

Check what else  the same sharp edge knife can do
(And this is not the first time we hear- Men, you better watch out!! You better 
be
loyal to your wife )




Indian woman chops off husband's penis
Sat May 21, 2005 11:43 AM BST 
   
LUCKNOW, India (Reuters) - A young woman chopped off her husband's penis with a
kitchen knife in northern India over his "blatant indulgence in womanising and
drinking", police said on Saturday.
The 27-year-old woman said her husband of 10 years had brought a prostitute 
home to
Lucknow in the northern Indian state of Uttar Pradesh on Friday, police said.

"I wanted to teach him a lesson for his blatant indulgence in womanising and
drinking," Reshma Ahmed, a mother of four, said in her confession to police.

"He was fast asleep when I thought to myself that enough was enough ... so I 
tied
his hands and feet and got a kitchen knife to chop off his organ to bring an 
end to
his lust once and for all."

A team of doctors at a local hospital reattached his penis. "We will have to 
wait
and watch to see if he will be sexually normal again," said A.K. Singh, who
performed the surgery. 





for NRI related info... 
http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/GOAN-NRI/ 














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[Goanet]Goanet Reader: Goa needs it's big, majestic trees

[Goanet Reader]

DO YOU FEEL THE CHILL NEAR SANGOLDA? OR,  WHY GOA NEEDS TO RE-PLANT TREES

By Paul Fernandes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

SOMEWHERE AMONG THE SHRINKING TREES: In a shrinking world, even the
size of trees is decreasing. Gigantic trees, which stretched into the sky
and shaded us from the scorching sun, are being replaced by dwarfish and
inferior varieties.

A bleak scenario looms large due to the flimsy shrubbery sprouting
up in place of tall trees that are being felled, amidst fears of an
impending global warming. "Huge mango, tamarind or other types of
trees arching over our houses shielded the sun," says horticulturist
Rozendo Mendonca.

Nature lovers are alarmed not only over the hacking of stately trees, which
is leading to the desertification in rural areas -- specially the coastal
belt -- but also over the lack of replacements. Hundreds of tall trees,
which were destroyed in the squall in Goa in mid-April 2005 may never be
replaced. Very soon only shrubbery may dot the landscape, tree lovers say.

Has anyone seen a tall tree coming up in place of a gigantic one axed in his
neighbourhood? The question is quite relevant.

"When everything, including trees, are cleared, there is a multi-storeyed
structure, there is a parking lot and there is an area, which is tiled. but
there is hardly any planning to do tree planting, says Sandeep Azrencar,
co-ordinator of the Nisarga Nature Club, of Margao and Mapusa. His group
which has been working for years to spread the tree-growing culture.

Thousands of saplings are planted every year but greens say those are exotic
species of trees such as acacia, casuarinas and eucalyptus, which cannot
recreate the ambiance of the stately indigenous trees with extensive
canopies. A few groups or individuals like the Nisarga Nature Club are
concerned about this and are trying to plant fruit-yielding varieties.

The indigenous varieties give character to a place, spread the
goodly shade and shelter life beneath them in an environment, where
the concrete rears up higher than the greenery.

"Trees can change the ecology of a place," says botanist Prof B F Rodrigues,
"and the moment we prefer exotic ones, we develop a mono-culture."

The practice is fraught with grave problems as mono-culture causes an
ecological imbalance. It discourages other fauna or diversity.

According to Rodrigues, people complain of pollen allergy when there is
maximum bloom of acacia trees, resulting in respiratory problems like a
cough. Trees like eucalyptus drain the water table while casuarina is also
know to choke waterways. Acacia trees are tall but cannot match local
varieties, much less for timber. They may not be conducive for birds either.

Says horticulturist Mendonca, "A denser crown, which the stately
trees have, means more leaves and more leaves means more is the
oxygen released in the atmosphere". The goodly shade spread by the
tree's canopy keeps the environs cool. For instance, a one-kilometre
stretch at Sangolda is known to be comparatively cooler than other
places as the avenue is flanked by overarching trees.

The loss of scores of trees in the April 20 squall is inestimable, say
environmentalists. Who will plant the rain trees when they come down?

Says Patricia Pinto, a Panjim councillor and environmentalist, "A tree for a
tree should be the principle adopted by those concerned and tree lovers."
According to her, if a mango tree is cut, a mango tree should be planted.
Otherwise, we are bound to lose control of what we plant and also the
diversity we possessed.

The government was planning to slaughter 37 rain trees at Campal for
its four-lane road. If they were destroyed, the population of this
species would have decreased, says a tree lover. No rain trees are
being planted anyway. Several varieties of trees like jambul,
tamarind are becoming rare.

It is high time a tree authority is installed to advise and guide the
builders or others who cut trees. For instance, the may-flower tree is not
good for a city. It has superficial roots and if it falls, it falls like a
cake.

Our cities are turning into urban wastelands because of a change in land
utilisation. "If you see the previous pattern, every house was a ground
dwelling structure. All houses had traditionally what is called the 'porsum'
(backyard plantation). Besides, there was a verandah and, in front of that,
a garden. Hence every house was a eco-friendly dwelling."

Now the urban culture has changed the set-up totally. Trees are felled for
construction but the element of compensating or replacing the lost tree is
missing. "The only sweet exception is the trees which were planted by CCP as
part of Together for Panaji programme during the tenure of then
Commissioner, Sanjit Rodrigues.

---
What foliage does to you and the env