Re: air filters

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 11/5/00 2:56:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< You might try to cross reference them with one of the major filter
 manufactures, like WIX or Fram.  >>
Considering the low number of units in existence, it is unrealistic to think 
they are going to make an air filter to fit the GTS.

Re: Yamaha Air Filter and Front Brake kit prices AND brake pad question

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 11/5/00 1:14:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

<< I called Power Motorsports  in Falls Church Va. 
 yesterday and they quoted me (hold your breath) $38.40 for the stock air 
 filter (paper) ea. and (elizabeth I'm com'in home) $94.00 for the front 
brake 
 kit!.. >>
That is the reduced price... dealer on the brake pads used to be close to 
$150 when the GTS came out in 93 You may be able to get a better 
deal, but that is a reduced price. Be thankful you didnt have to buy them in 
93.

On the subject of brake pads, I have heard discussions of disc wear. Has 
anyone noticed accelerated wear on their disc with non Yamaha brake pads? My 
connection to the original thread is if the stock pads are easier, (read that 
carefully) on the disc, the $94 could be a bargain compared to replacing the 
disc. This gets muddied up again when you start comparing performance to 
durability and appearance. It is subjective, at best. However, we need a good 
arguement again.
:)
RSRBOB

Re: Airbox Removal

[RSRBOB]

K&N makes a nifty little filter that fits in the end of the crankcase vent 
line that helps slow the accumulation of the oil film coming out of the vent 
tube. It is a round filter with the usual K&N gauze and screen, that is about 
an inch and a quarter in diameter and an inch high. A clean solution to 
crankcase venting when removing the airbox.

Re: Insurance for the GTS

[RSRBOB]

Insurance rates also vary by location. Length of riding season is a factor. 
If you are not riding in the winter, less liability on the part of the 
insurance co. And, even if you do ride, most bikes are probably not being 
ridden.

Re: Helmet Preference

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 11/1/00 9:46:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<<  I'm sure rider preference has a lot to do with what works
 best for you, but I must say after being somewhat skeptical the Arai is
 certainly worth a serious look. >>
Head shape is as critical in prefrence as anything. Many people have arai 
heads, and not shoei, and vice versa. Consider that when purchasing a helmet. 
Not everybody's head is shaped the same, and one brand may prove more 
comfortable than another. Personally, those two brands are what I consider to 
be the elite helmets out there. The others, as you said, are merely adequate.

Re: Biketoberfest...wrap up.

[RSRBOB]

I saw a 93 with about 2500 miles, from Fl, at the Olive Garden by the 
speedway Sat night, was it a lister's bike?

Ignition retarding was Re: More: Octane of Gas you use

[RSRBOB]

There are no knock sensors on the GTS engine, therefore, it will not retard 
the spark when or if the engine knocks. One other note, there are also two 
methods of grading octane. Look on the pump the next time you fill up. One 
number is lower than the other. Often times, manufactures quote one number or 
the other. This can be confusing unless you continue to read the manual to 
determine which specification they are referring to.

My Take on Octane was Re: Gasoline

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 10/27/00 6:28:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

<< My view is that using premium is that the combustion process will more 
 likely burn cleaner.  This will help in lowering the amount of unburned 
 fuel mixing with the oil. >>

Not So. Premium fuels burn slower than regular fuels. Therefore, to achieve 
complete combustion, one must use more ignition advance. If your engine is 
designed, both with compression and ignition timing, to run regular, it is 
not going to run "Cleaner" with higher octane. Further, changing octanes in 
effect changes the mixture. The higher octanes, run in an engine designed for 
regular, run richer. Again, there is more to this subject than may meet the 
casual eye. Although one can not fault an owner for wanting to provide the 
best of everything for their beloved machine, at some point, that beloved 
owner has to admit that he does not always know what is best for his machine.
RSRBOB

Re: Body Armour

[RSRBOB]

I wear the Hein Gerrick leathers for street/sport riding, They have what they 
call body armor in them. It is not hard plastic, however, it is compressed 
foam. I am sure it adds additional padding to cushion an impact, but I am 
also sure it is not going to be a miracoulous reduction in the event of an 
impact. It took a little getting used to riding with it, because you can tell 
it is there and it is a little restrictive. I don the leather pants and 
leather jacket when I intend to hit the twisties. On short commutes, I only 
wear the leather jacket. I feel safer with the stuff than without it, 
figuring every little bit of added protection helps. Pat and I have talked 
about getting the strap on back protector, as an added measure of safety. 
RSRBOB

Re: Old Topic!!! (was RE: New Topic!)

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 10/17/00 11:45:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Subj: Old Topic!!!  (was RE: New Topic!)
 Date:  10/17/00 11:45:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time
 From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sender:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Multiple recipients of list)
 
 
 
 On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, Hawkins, Kevin wrote:
 
 > You got a Kanatuna 1100? You should have hired a lawyer!! :^)
 
 Uh.Kevin, the list has been down this road before, but this one line
 response by you came up on my computer as 190 lines of stuff.  I pity the
 digesters.  Please.cut your messages before you reply.
 
 Phil
 
 
 
 
 --- Headers 
 Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Received: from  rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (rly-yh02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.34]) 
by air-yh02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:45:31 
-0400
 Received: from  elektro.cmhnet.org (elektro.com [192.188.133.3]) by 
rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:45:15 -0400
 Received: from x (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by elektro.cmhnet.org (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.3/cs) with SMTP id LAA27011;
Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:44:56 -0400 (EDT)
 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:44:56 -0400 (EDT)
 Message-Id: 
 Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Originator: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Precedence: bulk
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Multiple recipients of list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Subject: Old Topic!!!  (was RE: New Topic!)
 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
 X-Comment: Yamaha GTS1000 Owners Mailing List
 MIME-Version: 1.0
 
  >>
Why?
:)

Warranty, was Re: My oil/vibration issue

[RSRBOB]

Guys lets get ahold of ourselves here
Yamaha did not say they would not honor a warranty if synthetic oil is used. 
As someone pointed out, there is nothing saying not to use synthetics. The 
dealer said Yamaha said that.. This is a key difference. I submit that 
there is a breakdown in communication here. The warranty does not have to be 
honored if the cause of the failure can be attributed to the oil. Is that the 
case here? Probably not. As so many have cited, the probability of one 
cylinder glazing and three not glazing is low. What is high probability in 
this case is human error in reassembly. As far as oil related failures go, 
generally it is a lack thereof oil causing the failure, or infrequent oil 
changes. Maintenance issues that the manufacturer can not control. They 
suggest proper maintenance and that is all they can do. Further more, 
remember that this is not Yamaha's warranty. Kelly is into his extended 
warranty, and it is an aftermarket warranty, not a YAMAHA extended warranty. 
Attempt to maintain some objectivity here, and not jump to the conclusion 
that Yamaha is at fault here. They are not. Kelly may have a problem with the 
dealer or the extended warranty company, but that is the extent of it. 
Ironically, the reason Kelly had to have his bike in the shop in the first 
place is a sticking starter clutch. This failure is often associated with 
people that run synthetic oil and do not change it as frequently as people 
change petroleum oils. Flame as you will, more times than not, when this 
failure occurs, there is synthetic oil in the engine. 

Fluff To KevinH was Re: Oil

[RSRBOB]

Easy big boy, I was confident it was presented to us as it was written.

Re: help: my GTS wants to shake me off!

[RSRBOB]

When having them check the steering head bearings, they are looking for axial 
play in the adjustment. They are exactly the same design as on a forked bike, 
so they are looking for the same thing. Generally, in adjusting steering head 
bearings, you should deal in 1/4 turns. Less than that seems to have no 
effect. As a service note, when they go to remove the top triple clamp, tell 
them to be sure to REMOVE the 6 mm bolts securing the posts that connect the 
upper and lower triple clamps. They fit into a grove on the side of the post 
and therefore must be removed, not just loosened. It will appear that the 
design is such that loosening is sufficient, it is not. Other than that, tell 
them to adjust them like they are a forked bike. They want to be able to feel 
some preload or drag. As another note, when steering head bearings are 
adjusted too tight, the bike tends to "wander" becuase minute steering 
adjustments become more difficult. Good Luck.
RSRBOB

Re: Oil

[RSRBOB]

To play the devil's advocate here.
The article is lacking details. It talks of extreme heat. This is an 
ambiguous term. What are its parameters of extreme? Relative to believable 
temperatures achieved in a stock engine? In our engine? It doesn't say. I do 
not believe anyone questions whether synthetics are better lubricants. I 
believe most people question the necessity and expense in our application. 
Further, it said the Honda oils performed poorly. Again, this is relative. As 
most of you already knew, I am no Honda fan, so it is not them I am 
defending. However, they may have performed poorly in the arena tested, but 
may perform perfectly well in what they are designed to be exposed to. Stock 
engines in normal use. Also, MCN being the BEST publication, is also opinion 
and not fact. I am basing my opinion on what Henry said, I did not read it, 
and although the article is interesting reading material, and somewhat 
informative, but seems to lack hard data that is quantitative. 

Re: help: my GTS wants to shake me off!

[RSRBOB]

I would try several things. 
First, have you had any other service done to the bike recently? Either tire 
replaced or chain and sprockets? Had either wheel off the bike recently? 
There had been speculation in the past that if the wheel was reinstalled in a 
different position than it came off, it could create a problem. You have a 
one in four shot at this one. Also check to make sure you do not have a bent 
wheel or warped front disc.  It is always a good idea to start where the last 
thing that was done to the bike prior to the problem appearing. If it is 
doing it with out the boxes, I doubt it is the just the rack inducing the 
wobble. If you want to know for sure, remove the rack and retest, if the 
problem leaves with the rack, you have your answer.
I would not overlook the preload on the steering head bearings. Although our 
bikes do not use conventional forks, it could be a factor. I had addressed a 
decel wobble on one occaision on a GTS by tightening them up.
Good Luck,
RSRBOB

Re: Bike lurches forward when started in gear with clutch in

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 10/5/00 7:57:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Is it normal for GTS to lurch forward when starting in gear with the clutch
 in (all the way to the handlebar)? It starts forward hard and could travel 
up to three feet or so
 before I manage to catch it with the front brake. >>

Does it do it each and every time? Or did it do this after sitting for an 
extended period of time? It is not uncommon for any motorcycle clutch to have 
the clutch plates "stick" together if it has been sitting unused for extended 
periods of time. If it is doing it each and every time, something is wrong. I 
would start with an oil change, and consider changing brands of oil if you 
have recently had an oil change.

Re: FLUFF!!! - email footer

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 9/28/00 8:34:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< My work is now
 requiring a confidentiality footer be added to all emails due to
 governmental requirements >>
Does this mean taxpayers are paying your way to internet access?

RE: Model year by primary ID

[RSRBOB]

Yes, it can be identified by the primary ID. That number is stamped on the 
Omega Shaped frame on the right front downward pointing frame member. It will 
start with a 4HH and then have six more digits. The 1993 model starting 
primary ID is 4HH-000101. The 1994 would start with 4HH-003101 and up. This 
is all US models only. There should also be a white sticker on the tube for 
the frame that goes from left to right behind the header pipes. There is a 
date of manufacture stamped on there.  If the bike was manufactured on or 
before 06/93, it is a 93. Any date of manufacture after the 7 month would 
make it the next model year. If your bike has not been repainted, the 
burgundy color is 93, the blue is 94.

Re: started again (was RE: Intermot)

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 9/26/00 11:59:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Things that make money, but not lots and lots
 and lots of money, get ignored.  And those of us with quirky tastes (I do
 include myself here, BTW) lose out. >>
That statement in itself is debatable. Although it helps when amortizing the 
tool up expenses of a production line to make more units, the benefits 
decrease when modifications have to be made to a percentage of them to make 
them legal for import into a certain country. That expense becomes the 
responsibility of the country doing the importing. Although quirky 
motorcycles are nice, if an operation, say YMUS, is selling everything they 
can get their hands on that the parent company is making, and screaming for 
more, are they going to ask for different models that response would be 
questionable on? Someone had previously mentioned that there are other styles 
of motorcycles out there other than cruisers and sport bikes. Yes, there are, 
but percentage wise, those two categories account for better than 3/4 of 
motorcycle sales. Jay could probably come up with the exact numbers, but 
ballparking it around there gives you an idea of where the US market is. 
Another reality is the factory can only make so many motorcycles. Are you 
going to make what you are selling out of, or make models that may sell? I 
believe if it were any of us calling the shots and it was our money on the 
line, we would either do what they are doing or fail miserably. All Japanese 
manufacturers remember the 80's, and are determined not to repeat them. Now, 
it seems much safer to produce almost enough motorcycles to keep up with the 
demand of the current trend, than be the manufacturer with the greatest 
diversity of product line. This philosophy is what Harley is often credited 
with, "If we make enough, we have made too many." Although many may not want 
to hear this, having models in high demand and limited supply allows dealers 
to operate more profitably by not having to give deep discounts to sell 
units. Remember folks, these owners of dealerships are small businessmen like 
many of you. Profit is not a dirty word. Although overall profitability 
varies from one dealer to the next, most are in the business for the love of 
motorcycles. Owning your own motorcycle dealership is not a free ride on easy 
street to Lifestyles of the rich and famous. The standing joke among 
dealership owners is To make a small fortune in the MC business, start out 
with a big fortune.

EGA and HI HC readings was Re: Rich when warm..........

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 9/26/00 6:00:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Sounds exactly like my bike.  As I said, I did a quick test on an exhaust 
 gas analyser which seemed to show (apart from the poisoned cat) very high 
 hydrocarbons at idle (hence smell of petrol/gasoline);  >>
An engine can show high hydrocarbons for several reasons. Hydrocarbons or HC 
for short, are unburned gas coming out the exhaust. Burned gas, as a result 
of combustion, is read as CO or Carbon Monoxide. You cannot properly 
interpret hi HC readings without knowing what your CO is. An engine can be so 
lean, it cannot burn the fuel it is getting, and thus produce hi HC from 
running the fuel straight through the engine. An engine running in this 
condition is called being in a lean misfire. If it were a single cylinder 
engine, it probably would not run, depending on the severity of the leanness. 
An engine that is too rich, obviously, can give hi HC readings because there 
is so much gas the engine cannot combust it. Therefore, to be able to decide 
whether you are rich or lean depends on going to the CO reading to interpret 
your HC reading. CO should be somewhere around 3 or 4 percent. If the CO is 
higher than that, the engine is rich. If the CO is lower than that, the 
engine is lean. Adjustments should be made accordingly. EGA adjustments 
should always be coupled with engine sync and engine idle speed monitored. If 
adjusted the mixture affects the sync or idle speed, they should be brought 
back to specs before proceeding with further EGA adjustments. A typical EGA 
adjustment is a constant adjusting of mixture, idle sync, mixture idle sync, 
etc. One other point, Yamaha specifies that the engine oil temp should be 
between 55 and 55 degrees Celsius when making EGA adjustments, with the 
crankcase breather unplugged.  Gas in the oil can also show a high HC 
reading, without affecting CO. Obviously, there is a bit of experience 
required to be able to accurately interpret what an EGA machine is telling 
you, but that does not negate its value as a diagnostic tool. It removes all 
the guess work and allows for extremely accurate adjustments.

Re: Rich when warm..........

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 9/26/00 12:19:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Throttle response is good, although the engine
 will sometimes die when coming to a stop within the first few minutes of
 running.  If I'm really easy on the throttle for the first few minutes of
 running, I have no problems. >>
This actually sounds like the problem "SOME" people experienced with the 1993 
GTS. I do not recall if you said yours was a 93 or 94. The 93 has a different 
ECU that is leaner on decel and can cause the stalling when coming to a stop. 
It could help to get the idle mixture adjusted with an EGA machine. In lieu 
of that, you can set the mixture screws, that are located on the back of the 
ECU, which lives on top of the battery, to the one oclock position. I 
personally have not done this, but enough people on the list have said they 
did it and were satisfied with the results. Depending on the mileage either 
on your machine or since your last tune up, it would not hurt to check the 
sync of the throttle plates on the injectors. Bear in mind that the sync is 
adjusted with the air screws on the injectors, not what actually moves the 
throttle plates. Those adjustments, which are exactly what you would adjust 
if they were carbs, should never be touched on the GTS. It is always a good 
idea to remind a shop if you have to take it in for sync that they do not use 
what appears to be the adjusters. Good luck!
RSRBOB

Re: Rich when warm..........

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 9/25/00 8:14:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< My GTS seems to run a bit rich when it's cold.
  >>
Doubtful, a cold engine tends to run leaner than a hot engine. This is true 
to the point that is is used as a diagnostic test for rich lean conditions. 
If the engine idles better when it is warmed up than when it is cold, it is 
lean when it is cold. If it idles better cold than when it is warmed up, it 
is too rich. Of course, this refers to idle circuit, since no one would rev 
an engine that is not up to operating temperature yet. The GTS uses a "wax 
pellet" to richen the mixture at an idle and allow the mixture to lean as the 
warmth of the engine takes over. An engine that is rich when it is cold is 
richer when it is hot. Therefore, the running symptoms would be normal 
running cold with performance deteriorating as the engine warms. It is 
possible that an engine could have a problem so severe that it is either so 
lean or so rich that it runs bad whether warm or hot, but generally, there is 
still a noticable difference in running between cold and hot. The good news 
about a problem that severe is that it makes it that much easier to find. 
Rich is accompanied by black smoke and black plugs. Rich also sounds like a 
stumble or blubber. Lean is a hesitation or resistance to take throttle. 
Spark plugs come out white, possibly glazed white. At an idle, a lean 
condition is indicated by a hunting or fluctuating idle. A rich condition 
produces an idle that gradually dies away.

Re: GTS to FZR stuff

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 9/20/00 9:33:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

<< snip the compression thing (you wouldn't let me have
 the FZR pistons! ;>) >>
I am such a bastard.Just for that, I would not associate with me 
anymore if I were you... :)

If you want more HP out of the GTS, go the way of the FZR. The injectors are 
tremendously smaller than the carbs on the GTS. I would think that is the 
bottle neck. The exhaust would be second on the list, as I mentioned 
previously. then compression, then have the head flowed. My personal opinon 
based soley on interpretting the design.

Re: GTS to FZR stuff

[RSRBOB]

Reply to both Bill and Charlie:
Bill, put a compression gauge on your bike at sea level then 5,000 feet. It 
reads lower. Yes, through physics I am sure you are right, however, grant me 
the liberty of cutting through unnecessary theory, and getting down to what 
is easy to comprehend and still accurate. As far as reducing the size of an 
engine, I disagree with you that raising the compression is reducing engine 
size. You have not altered the bore or the stroke, times the number of 
cylinders, of course, which are the two mathematical variables used to 
calculate engine displacement or size.  To use a real-world example, the 
water craft engines I eluded to in the previous response use changeable 
combustion chambers. The different chambers are "sized" by the volume they 
retain, measured in cubic centimeters. There is a common term called CCing a 
head. This is what they are referring to. Actually measuring how much liquid, 
in CCs, a combustion chamber will hold. Reducing the volume of a combustion 
chamber in an existing engine will produce an engine that has higher 
compression, in PSI, all other things being equal. I also realize it is not 
practical to change compression ratios on a motorcycle for a weekend trip to 
the mountains. I made the point so that Charlie had a more realistic idea of 
what to expect from changing exhaust systems, specifically to address the 
loss of power at altitude issue. The net results of changing to a different 
exhaust system are directly related to how restrictive the original was, and 
if it was the limiting factor in processing the fuel charge. Again, with the 
GTS, the header pipes are smaller then FZR1000 header pipes to boost midrange 
horsepower. I know you are going to through your two cents in, but try to 
allow for what are real world scenarios with technicians and enthusiasts that 
can fix motorcycles without splitting hairs on physics or getting bogged down 
in endless theories.

Re: Max Speed

[RSRBOB]

Generally, top gear on most any motorcycle is 1 to 1. I know there are 
exceptions, the Royal Brage being one where fourth is .9 to 1 and 5th is .75 
to 1. However, understand the purpose for more gears in a transmission is 
closer ratios. This becomes a factor when an engine's powerband becomes 
narrow, usually from the higher state of tune. The idea is to be able to 
shift gears at or about peak horsepower and have the RPM drop to at or about 
peak torque so that the RPMs can more quickly be recovered. There is another 
factor to consider. If you are squeezing 6 gears side by side in a space that 
originally housed 5, the gears have to be a thinner width so there will be a 
trade off in durability. As far as YZF750s, I believe the 94 made right 
around 130~135 hp at the crank. Therefore, holding the HP of the GTS should 
not be a problem, it is just a question of how long you expect the gears to 
live. Tranny design, as is most everything, is a compromise between weight 
and durability. You have to be willing to give up some durability to save 
weight or get a 6 speed where a five speed is. The power band, or torque 
curve of the GTS is plenty wide that it does not require a six speed 
transmission. As was mentioned, unlike the R-1, which in 2000 Yamaha did 
raise the ratio of first gear, does not use a tall first gear. The bike was 
not designed to be a road racer, or road racer replica. If the R-1 had 
similar gear spacing to the GTS with its tall first gear, it would never pull 
out in top gear, it would be too tall. Hence, a narrower spacing of ratios 
between the gears between first and sixth.

Re: GTS to FZR stuff

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 9/19/00 5:17:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< I take my bike into the Mountains
 frequently and once above 6000ft or so it starts to lose a significant
 amount of power. It seems an exhaust would help this, I'm also looking into
 re-chipping the bike if any one has any experience with that. >>
>From watercraft racing, and taking boats from Fl to denver, it is not the 
exhaust that is killing you. It is lack of compression. In thinner air, you 
are just not getting as big a bang inside the cylinders that you do at lower 
altitudes. The problem is not evacuating the cylinder, it is getting a more 
powerful explosion. The watercraft race engines run the same exhaust, but 
higher compressions to compensate for the altitude. There is some rule of 
thumb formula that escapes me now, mainly because I live in Florida and it 
doesn't apply, but something to the effect of 10~15% decrease in HP per 3000 
ft. Your stock exhaust still flows fine at altitude, it just doesnt have 
enough to flow through it. This gets back to the engine flow balance theory. 
You can have an exhaust that flows 200 CFM, but if the head or intake only 
flows 100 CFM, that will be your bottle neck. Increasing the exhaust to 300 
CFM will not produce anymore horsepower because it was not the limiting 
factor.

Re: Max Speed

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 9/19/00 8:00:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Does this mean the theoretical
 top speed of the bike is 160 MPH or does the aerodynamic pressure build
 and keep the bike from getting that fast? >>
That is indeed theoretical. There are many factors that limit top speed and 
prevent it from being the perfect mathematical double of 50% of red line in 
top gear. Aerodynamics, or more specifically aerodynamic drag increases as 
the speed does, which limits actual top speed. Other factors also come into 
the equation as well. One is clutch slip. Not the pegged tach needle type of 
clutch slip, just minute slip that prevents power transmission from the crank 
through the main shaft from remaining at a perfect 1 to 1. Other factors that 
are best known to the engineering society also exist, but suffice to say a 
bike cannot achieve exactly double the MPH at double the RPM of 50% of 
redline in top gear. On paper, it does work, in the real world, it does not. 
Similar to a perpetual motion machine that has an electric motor spinning a 
generator to make electricity to spin the electric motor. On paper, in simple 
enough terms, it should work. In reality, it doesn't.

Re: Would Teflon/Steel Brake Lines Prevent Moisture Intrusion?

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 9/14/00 1:21:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< My question to the technical guys out there is:  Would installing
 teflon/steel brake lines also help to prevent moisture intrusion and/or
 corrosion of the ABS internals? >>
This will help. Glycol brake fluid has the ability to draw moisture through 
the porosities of the rubber lines. Eliminating those porosities is a benefit.

Opps, my mistake: was Re: Silica LS13 or Silica LF13 for saddlebag blank?

[RSRBOB]

Opps, disregard the key info, after the fact, I saw the saddlebag part in the 
subject line, Sorry.

Re: Silica LS13 or Silica LF13 for saddlebag blank?

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 9/12/00 6:03:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< I've just got a call from a locksmith and he said he can't find LS13 
blank. He claims that the only
 thing in
 the catalog is LF13.
 Is it LS or LF?
Either take him your original key, or if you have lost it, try his blank in 
your switch. Also, key blanks are available from Yamaha, and, you can get the 
original replacement with the plastic on the top. Blanks from locksmiths are 
usuall without the plastic on top.
 
 Also after the ride in the mountains the ABS light was flickering for ten 
seconds or so. Now it does
 not.
 Nothing to worry about?
No, probably just from rough roads or possibly a stray RF signal. If it 
disappeared when you turned the key off and on, what ever fault it had 
detected no longer existed, or, the flashing light would have continued. 
There may be a code stored in your ECU, which can be retrieved by putting the 
bike in dealer (diagnostic) mode.
 
 Another thing: while getting out of the parking lot in first gear with
 a throttle in a fixed position the bike jerks back and forth. I would've 
thought it is my meager
 riding skills, but neither of my two other bikes ever did it (ZX900 and 
VFR750F).
 Does this have to do with EFI or I have to learn how to ride? >>
This would be the TPS adjustment we have been talking about. PROVIDING it is 
NOT a loose chain, loose throttle cable (free play adjustment) or lean 
setting for idle mixture. The TPS issue has been beat to death, you should be 
able to find tons of info on it in the archives.

Re: GTS1000 and shaft drive

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 9/7/00 4:36:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< I don't have the numbers in front of me, but the Yamaha Road Star is a
 1600 cc air cooled twin that is belt driven and it's got to be kicking
 out some serious torque >>
Yes, 99 foot pounds of torgue at 2000 RPM, HOWEVER!!! right around a 
whopping 45 HP...   
Superchargers are belt driven, not the dragsters, easier to compress air than 
carry 2000 horsepower
Spinning cams with belts again is not heavy loads on the belts either. Those 
off brand Chicken wings use belts for cam drives, as do those off brand farm 
animals, ducks.
:)
RSRBOB

Re: GTS1000 and shaft drive

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 9/6/00 8:04:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

<<  think it would be much easier to switch to a belt drive.  I've been 
 thinking about this for a while, but haven't gotten around to seriously 
 investigating it.  If someone wants to do it and send me the details I'll be 
 your best friend.   >>
My initial response to this is that a belt may not take too well to the 
increased HP. Most belt drive models are under 75 HP at the crank. I know 
some of those off brands (HD) are pumped up to 100 HP, but, at that point, 
how long does a belt last? I am suspecting that it will not last as long as a 
chain.
As far as converting the drive to anything, bear in mind, Yamaha intended 
to retain the sport part of sport touring, in the design of the GTS. They 
were looking to be different, remember? It is true, from a marketing 
standpoint, using the drive that was already there on the donor engine kept 
prices down. Remember chain drive is more efficient at transmitting power 
than a shaft. It also lends itself to easier overall gear ratio adjustment. 
It is lighter than a shaft drive system, which benefits the suspension 
because you have less weight moving up and down with the swing arm. The final 
drives on shaft drive bikes are quite heavy, and your shocks have to control 
that movement. It makes the suspension less responsive, from a physics stand 
point. It is more mass to put in motion when bumps are encountered, and more 
mass to stop to prevent bottoming out. Certainly, suspensions on shaft drive 
motorcycles can yeild excellent ride quality. However, it becomes a 
compromise when you enter the "sport" element. Each drive system has its 
advantages, and disadvantages. Chain drives are the drive of choice for sport 
bikes. Shaft for touring... so, to each his own. Although I am betting no 
one will be converting to shaft anytime soon. BTW, is is easier to convert 
FROM shaft to chain, than vise versa. The cases would have to be modified 
(welding and maching) to house an intermediate gear set to change the 
direction of power flow from sideways to backwards. In contrast, in 
converting to chain drive, ala V max conversions, a countershaft sprocket can 
be fashioned for the out put shaft on the driven axle of the transmission, 
seal off the oil flow, fab a swing arm and bolt on an appropriate rear 
wheel.. nothing to it.
Belt drives are quiter and cleaner than chain, while still retaining the 
lighter weight. Belts are generally rated higher for the number of miles they 
should last. 
RSRBOB

Bad grounds was Re: Medic !!!!

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 9/6/00 6:42:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< This brings up an important point in electronics testing.  One reason it 
is hard
 to find bad grounds is that using an ohm meter to test for continutity to 
ground
 can create a *false* ground...even using high-impedance meters.  Undoubtedly
 that is why the Goldwing ran with the lights on - switching on the headlight
 created a new path to ground. >>
As a motorcycle technician, I can not remember when an ohm meter failed 
to detect a bad ground for me. We are not dealing with semi conductors 99% of 
the time. In reality, I have found at least half of the bad grounds I was 
looking for visually, with the ohm meter in the unemployed hand. I feel in 
most cases when checking the simple circuits on motorcycles, an ohm meter can 
usually help you. I understand ohm readings are unloaded, and, not terribly 
accurate. However, many times, one is truly only looking for an open or 
shorted circuit. I am thinking purely of diagnosing motorcycle electrical 
problems that happen in the real world. When EE's delve into what is making 
an ECU function, or not function, that is outside the realm of normal 
motorcycle repair, and into a specialty of electrical engineering. Although 
we have some very capable EE's or Electric techs that own GTS's, it seems 
most would be happy if they could get their tail light working again, or 
figure out why they are blowing fuses.
RSRBOB

Electrical Problems, Was something else at one time......

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 9/6/00 11:20:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< And thus the need for a bike alarm with perimeter sensor! I love mine!
 Scorpio! >>
I mentioned previously that bad grounds accounted for many weird electrical 
problems. Kevin reminded me of another with this line. Burgalar alarms cause 
almost as many problems when they decide to take a powder. If you have 
electrical problems and non stock accessories, start off by taking them out 
of the system and retesting. Esp alarms, which are usually wired into the 
ignition coils, can produce running problems. Any accessory could be suspect 
for charging problems. Don't forget to check your AMP flow as well when 
checking charging, not just volts!
RSRBOB

Bad Grounds, was Re: Medic !!!!

[RSRBOB]

This was a good point made.
When you have electrical problems that seem to defy logic, try checking for 
good grounds. More times than not, you will find either an open circuit to 
ground or high resistance to ground. I have seen so many weird symptoms 
resulting from poor grounds. One of the more common is the ground from the 
battery to the engine/frame. Just something to keep in mind before pressure 
is fully applied to that panic button.
RSRBOB

Re: Medic !!!!

[RSRBOB]

Re: Medic !!!! ( IC numbers)

[RSRBOB]

In defense of George.. since he is out of town this week end. George has 
his EE degree and is well aware of exactly what he is doing. 
As far as differences in the 93 and 94 ecu's, Yamaha changed the 
"programming" of them between 93 and 94 to enrichen the decel circuit. Some 
riders under some conditions were able to create a condition that caused the 
engine to stall during decel. To address the issue, they adopted the european 
ECU for 94 US models, and, replaced some 93 ECUs with 94's if a customer had 
a problem with stalling. The 93 ECU is no longer available. The part number 
automatically supercedes to the 94 part number. The 93 ECU upon decel stops 
fuel flow through the injector, until the RPMs decrease to a predetermined 
level (providing the TPS is still saying the throttle is shut down). My 
recollection of their explanation was the 94 ECU restores fuel flow at a 
higher RPM than the 93, to address this throttle off stalling issue some 
people had. As an interesting story, I let a friend of mine who was service 
manager at the local dealer ride my GTS, which he had never done before. He 
came back and said it stalled three times on him. It had never stalled on me, 
so it must have been his style that caused it to happen. It seems logical to 
this meck a neck that if you richen a decel circuit, you are going to 
sacrifice fuel mileage. George was attempting to address the low speed surge 
issue by installing the 94 ECU. We saw his post of the result. 
As far as  speaking with the EE that designed the ECU, one would have to 
learn Japanese and book that two week vacation to Japan, just to begin to 
make that happen. However, I am guessing, plan day trips while you are there, 
they probably consider that information proprietary, and, would not 
understand a word you said, they would just politely smile.

Re: Test rode....

[RSRBOB]

Did I mention the Hayabusa I installed the Yosh cams, power commander module 
and akropovich exhaust on? I saw 190 on the speedo. Meaning, the needle was 
pointing to 190, not just noticed they included it. That was power.. 
alas... still a suzuki.

Re: ABS nightmare...

[RSRBOB]

If they replaced EVERYTHING on the ABS and you still have problems, it is 
concievable it is something else. You are getting chatter on braking? Maybe a 
person riding by and locking the brakes in front of someone watching the 
swing arm movement would help isolate the problme

Re: ABS Replacement; did you pay labor?

[RSRBOB]

For what it is worth, I did mine in two hours in my garage. I may have done 
one or two before though. That shop was definetly floundering with bleeding 
the brakes. Probably did not have the front caliper tilted forward. It is not 
rocket science

Re: Wanted: GTS around Denver, CO; misc questions about ergos

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 8/30/00 8:59:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Subj: Re: Re: Wanted: GTS around Denver, CO; misc questions about ergos
 Date:  8/30/00 8:59:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time
 From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Weaver)
 Sender:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Multiple recipients of list)
 
  restricted word on first line...
 
 
 --
 Michael Weaver  (706)542-6468 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 UCNS Network Specialist   LAN Support Group
 University of Georgia, Athens Ga. )O(
 Public PGP key: http://www.arches.uga.edu/~weaver/pgp.html
 
 -- Forwarded message --
 
 
 Rejected message: sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
follows.
 Reason for rejection: request sensed.
 
--
-
 Get one primary ID... I think they are pulling your leg..
 Get an ID and we will verify whether it is new and US or not
 
 
 
 --- Headers 
 Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Received: from  rly-zc02.mx.aol.com (rly-zc02.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.2]) by 
air-zc01.mail.aol.com (v75_b3.11) with ESMTP; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:59:58 -0400
 Received: from  elektro.cmhnet.org (elektro.com [192.188.133.3]) by 
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 Received: from x (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by elektro.cmhnet.org (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.3/cs) with SMTP id IAA05742;
Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:50:36 -0400 (EDT)
 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:50:36 -0400 (EDT)
 Message-Id: 
 Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Originator: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Precedence: bulk
 From: Michael Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 To: Multiple recipients of list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Subject: Re: Re: Wanted: GTS around Denver, CO; misc questions about ergos
 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
 X-Comment: Yamaha GTS1000 Owners Mailing List
 MIME-Version: 1.0
 
  >>
what word is restricted??? is there a list of restricted words freedom of 
speech? Nothing offensive, rude or obnoxious

Re: Medic !!!!

[RSRBOB]

I think he turned the TPS the wrong direction. George and I found if you 
followed the instructions from Robert Wilson's site, the bike is almost 
unridable. Rotating the TPS counter clockwise improves the low RPM surge. If 
you are in question, crank it all the counter clock wise, or anti clock wise 
if you are in Europe, and see if it rides better.

Re: Yamaha liter sport/tourer

[RSRBOB]

Well,
Consider this. Yamaha on more than one occaision has introduced product in 
Europe one year, and the US the next. This is no guarantee, but, remember 
they did that with the R-1. Europe had it for a year before we did. There is 
some marketing strategy being employed, and, the closer you watch what is 
introduced where and when, you will understand that such introductions do not 
mean that they are not destined for the US.

Re: co-adjustment (fwd)

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 8/24/00 8:33:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Does anyone know how to adjust the exhaust-co-value?
 Does the adjustment infuence the whole revolution span
 or only near idle-speed? >>
CO or Carbon Monoxide, is the by product of combustion in the cylinder. HC is 
the raw or unburned gasses passing through the cylinder. CO is adjusted by 
the four "pots" that are on the rear facing side of the ECU, which is under 
the seat atop the battery. CO is the only adjustment you can make. HC, C02 
and 02 are indicators as to the condition and or design of the rest of the 
engine. There is a direct correlation between CO and HC. Generally, you would 
want to adjust the CO to obtain the lowest HC. This would indicate you are 
burning the highest percentage of fuel available.  HC can show HI if the 
engine is running too rich or too lean. This would be determined by the % of 
CO. If CO is really low, and HC is hi, the cylinder is in a lean misfire 
condition. This means there is literally not enough gas in the fuel mixture 
(gas/air) to complete combustion. Ideal air to gas ratio is 14.7 to 1. On the 
reverse side of this, if the CO is too high, you are pouring more raw gas 
into the cylinder than it can process, and again dumping raw gas out the 
exhaust, as shown by hi HC. This reading on and Exhaust Gas Analyzer would 
show HI CO and HI HC. HI CO being somewhere around maybe 8% and up. 
RSRBOB

Re: GTS VALUES

[RSRBOB]

Triumph
With Lucas electrics???
Joseph Lucas, the Prince of Darkness???
Ohhh, BTW, talk about expensive ECU's, better price that one on the 
Trumpet..

Web sites for tires

[RSRBOB]

What companies has anyone used and liked for price and service?

Re: radiator overheating

[RSRBOB]

There are two sensors, but not both for the fans. One is for the fans, and 
the other is for the warning lights. Since they do not turn on and off at the 
same temps, it requires two sensors, or thermo switches.

Re: radiator overheating

[RSRBOB]

I would check the water pump for proper circulation, or the radiator for 
proper coolant flow. If you are loosing CFM of water, it could cause over 
heating. Another remote possiblity is a blown/leaking head gasket. If 
combustion is leaking into the water jacket, it can push water out the 
overflow. If you suspect this, there is a dye that can be added to the 
coolant that reacts to the combustibles, and is visible under UV light. Best 
to have a shop test this for you, the kit to do it yourself is not worth the 
expense of using only once, in all probability.

Re: Wheels and surging

[RSRBOB]

It sounds as if you say the wheel is now bent. (Side to side run out) In the 
US, we immediately assume the shop damaged the wheel. IT is possible to do 
so, especially if they are using an automatic tire changing machine, as 
opposed to the old way of by hand with tire irons.
The wobble you mentioned has been noted on the list previously, and I have 
experienced it on one of the lister's bike. It is a slow oscillation of the 
handle bars, somewhat subtle, starting around 45 or 50, and increasing in 
amplitude up to around 65, as I recall. If that is what you are experiencing, 
it could well be the tire. If you are experiencing something else, it may be 
the bent wheel. 
As far as the surging, we have had some success minimizing it by turning up 
the TPS. There is a procedure in the service manual that tells you how to do 
this. I believe the final voltage George P and I ended up at was about 0.65 
DCV. As a reference point, I believe my TPS voltage started out at about 
0.35DCV , so you can see the voltage is minute, and adjustment is delicate. 
Although I have since found in the service manual a little catch phrase that 
says, if the bike is running good, do not worry about the TPS reading being 
out of spec. From my findings, it seems like turning it up even higher may be 
better, to address this surging issue. BTW, the surging is a lean condition.

The ABS light could be a couple of things, Lately, it appears some listers 
have noticed a relation between low battery voltage, of which they found a 
battery that was checking out, or just bumpy roads. Again, the service manual 
does mention that bumpy roads can cause a flashing ABS light. The best place 
to start is to see if you have any codes stored in your ECU to pin point the 
problem. If that does not show anything, consider the age of the battery, and 
state of charge. Batteries have been known to last as little as one year, or 
up to five years. If yours is in that range, it is something to consider. One 
of the reasons the battery has such a difference in lifecycle is the way it 
was initially serviced. If it was not properly filled and charged, it would 
never achieve 100% capacity, and, show up in the form of a premature failure. 
To test the battery, I like to do a voltage drop test while starting the 
bike. If you have excessive voltage drop, say, below 10 V, the battery is on 
its way south.
Good Luck,
RSRBOB

Re: ECU Failure (was Atlanta)

[RSRBOB]

On the TPS
Not only should you be able to test voltage to it, you should be able to test 
voltage through it, and resistance of it. 

Re: GTS vs Hayabusa

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 7/21/00 10:10:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Well, 2nd gear roll on and top gear roll-on are pretty different.  You need
 low and midrange power for top gear roll-on, and thats where the GTS shines.
 But compared to the new open class bikes, by 7k rpm you start to get a
 disadvantage that never ends. >>
Good point, GTS max torque is at 6500 RPM, but, that 100 peak crank shaft 
horsepower pales in comparison to today's machinery. The GTS is not a race 
bike, so, enjoy it for what it is.

Re: OIL.... response to Hawke

[RSRBOB]

The FJ is manufactured with pretty loose tolerances, compared to a water 
cooled engine, to avoid metal to metal between the aluminum piston and steel 
cylinders sleeves, which have different coefficients of expansion, to help 
avoid to tight a fit when engine gets hot.

What tolerances are you referring to? Piston to wall clearance? There are 
many variables to consider, from an engineering stand point, on correct 
piston to wall clearance, piston diameter being one of the more important. 
Silicone content in a piston, and whether it is forged or cast, also must be 
considered, because they expand to different degrees. Check the clearance 
reccomendations for Wiseco pistons compared to stock, much greater clearance, 
for the same engine and cooling system.

Facts from the 1993 Yamaha Technical Service Data microfiche:

GTS Piston to wall clearance is  0.06 ~ 0.08 mm (0.0024~0.0031") Bore Size 
75.5

1993 FJ1200AE Piston to wall clearance is 0.03 ~ 0.05 mm
(0.0012~0.002") Bore size 77 mm


<< One of the fixes, often used by FJ owners, is to raise the main 
needle and turn out the idle jets to enrich the fuel flow to engine 
 at low speeds and idle.  More fuel improves cooling. >>
 Idle mixture screws are adjustable by turning, jets are not adjustable. 
However, I agree, richer is cooler than lean. Some manufacturers also play 
with carb sync to keep the inner cyls cool. 

<< The gas tank is vented so excessive pressure build up will not occur.  >>
Yes, it is vented, if the tank is full, or close, the fuel can expand enough 
to overflow. 

<< If the carbs get too hot they would probably cause the vapor lock and the 
engine would want to start to diesel. >> 

 Diesling happens after the engine is shut off. The fuel has to have a source 
of ignition, be it heat and compression (diesel) or spark. That is not what I 
am talking about. The float bowls are vented to allow atmospheric pressure 
into the float chamber. However, at the rate fuel expands, it will run out 
the overflow AND into the venturi and into the engine. I have seen carbs 
overflow, and, the engine runs rich, it does not diesel. BTW, has anyone seen 
a bona fide case of vapor lock in the last 20 years? I have only heard about 
it from people who were at a loss for any other explanation. The fuel has 
escape routes, through vents and also the needle jet. Don't know where it 
would lock, when it has possible exits.

<>
  
20 minutes to sync carbs? Hmm, loosing money on flat rate with that one.

<< As the engine finally reaches a very hot condition it starts to slow 
 down at idle, like you are letting the clutch out and causing drag. >>
 This binding effect is also very noticeable when trying to restart. 

I am notquestioning the symptom, that may be exactly what it sounds like. 
My point is, that is not what it is. As a humourous analogy only, it is like 
being a little pregnant.

<< The starter has a hard time turning the engine over and it rotates at a 
much lower speed.  Again like it is binding. >>
 
Again, I do not disagree with the symptoms, just the diagnosis. Yamaha has 
long been known to have several bikes that exhibit this symptom, slow 
cranking when hot. The old Ventures were one that were famous for this. 
Again, many more factors are involved. For starters, and engine that is 
warmed up has more compression than a cold engine. Also, the starter motor 
itself, and its windings, are also hot, and, require more power to operate. 
 
 <) >>
 
Your logic to a point is correct, less friction produces less heat, period. 
Where we differ is that you believe an engine can partially sieze, and then 
be perfectly ok after it cools off. A siezure in a motorcycle engine means 
metal has transferred from one part to another, be it piston to cylinder, 
crank bearing to crank, rod bearing to crank. As far as running rich cooling 
the motor, too much of a good thing is not better. Also, consider raw fuel in 
the venturi does not atomize hardly at all, so it goes into the cylinder as 
an unburnable liquid. If it were true that more fuel would help an engine run 
better, there would be no such thing as having a bike jetted overly rich. 
Optimum air to fuel ratio is 14.7:1. Vary from that ratio too far one way or 
the other, and performance will suffer.
 

Re: Fuel Milage tank mod.

[RSRBOB]

The air space in the tank is to allow for fuel expansion when hot. If you 
have fuel in what was once free air space, when it expands, it will go out 
the overflow, unless you have a Ca. model, then, it will go to the charcoal 
cannister. That is why it is there. not to cheat you out of fuel 
capacity. 

Re: GTS vs Hayabusa

[RSRBOB]

Hmmm, about 60% more claimed horsepower, about the same 
weight, I am in shock.

Re: Starting problem

[RSRBOB]

I suspect the side stand switch. It has a much higher fatality rate than the 
clutch switch. 

Re: OIL.... Henry's curiosity

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 7/17/00 12:49:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<<  With conventional oil it would virtually start to stall 
 out as the engine parts would expand and get close to seizing.   >>
Exactly what is close to seizing? I suspect this has crossed over into 
conjecture or guessing from scientific investigation. From my mechanical 
experience, it has either seized or it hasn't, or galled, in the case of 
ferrous metal to ferrous metal. However, as a motorcycle retains more heat, 
it can begin to run rich, esp non injected motorcycles, from gasoline 
expansion in the tank and or float bowls, (again, non injected). This causes 
a rich running condition that can actually cause rough running to stalling. 
The symptoms would be similar to running with the choke on. I do know Motul 
claims to lower engine temperature with use of at least one of their 
products. No offense intended, just offering a mechanical perspective to an 
engineering judgment.
RSRBOB

Re: Motor Cycle Oils

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 7/16/00 10:36:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Do you run the 20w50 even when the owner's manual calls for 10w-40?
 
 Inquiring minds want to know..
  >>
Actually, Henry, they reccomend 20W-40 or 10W-30 TYPE SE motoroil, Yamalube, 
of course. Yamaha would not reccomend an oil they do not make. (10w40) AS far 
as API ratings SE, SF, SG type or equivalent.
RSRBOB

Chain and Sprocket Inspection and condition assesment

[RSRBOB]

Here are a few of techniques used in the industry to determine the condition 
of a chain.
 First, on a final drive chain, check for consistent slack in several 
different spots on the chain. If a chain is wearing evenly, it should be the 
same at any given spot on the chain. This is easily accomplished by putting 
the bike on the center stand, lifting and pulling down on the chain midway 
between the front and rear sprocket and observing the slack. Then, rotate the 
rear wheel, BY HAND, a quarter or half turn, depending on how closely you 
want to inspect it, and, compare the slack there to the previous 
observations. Continue in this manner until you have spot checked the entire 
length of the chain. If the variance is extreme, such as going from too 
tight, or not enough slack in one spot, to too loose in another, the chain is 
damaged beyond usable limits. The reason this occurs is the rollers where the 
chain is loose have worn internally, allowing the distance between the pins 
they spin on to increase, and, producing that mythical "chain stretch." So, 
the loose spots are the trouble spots, not the tight spots, unless, you have 
kinking. Kinking is something I have never seen get resolved without 
replacing the chain. Maybe if you took enough time, you could, but, the odds 
are the chain is still worn out.
Another thing to look for when assessing the condition of a chain, and 
sprockets too, is to grab the chain at the center of the rear sprocket, and 
attempt to pull the chain away from the sprocket. If it pulls away enough to 
see one full tooth of the sprocket, it is worn past serviceable limits, and 
should be replaced. Again, this is a test that can be performed at several 
spots along the length of the chain to make sure it is all OK.
One more test you can easily perform on a chain to determine its condition, 
if it is off the sprockets, is to fold the chain in half, and hold it on one 
end. Hold it so the loop is parallel to the ground, the pins perpendicular, 
and observe the deflection from horizontal, maybe 3 inches. A new chain will 
not dip far from horizontal, where a worn chain will hang very low on the 
opposite end you are holding.
When looking at sprockets, You want to compare the leading edge and trailing 
edge of each valley between the teeth. Obviously, most of the load on the 
sprocket tooth is directed towards one side. What you are looking for here is 
how much difference there is between the slope of the power side compared to 
the decel side. As a sprocket wears, the slope on the power side becomes less 
and less straight, and more laid down in the direction of the power. In 
extreme cases, the teeth could even hook over in the direction of power. Also 
check the sprockets for even wear on the sides of the teeth. If a rear wheel 
has been run misaligned for an extended period of time, it can wear one side 
of the sprocket more than the other, due to the angle the chain meets the 
sprocket.
If you are ever in a position where you have to adjust a chain that has tight 
spots, you want to adjust for proper slack at the tightest spot on the chain. 
The reasoning behind this is if you adjust it at the loosest spot, damage 
could occur when the tight spot hits as the suspension compresses. Lots of 
bad things potentially could happen if that were the case.
Hope this helps,
RSRBOB

Re: cleaning wheels

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 7/6/00 11:49:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Especially the back one, where the combination of chain wax & brake dust
  >>
WD 40 is amazing for cutting chain wax that has been flung off. Wheel cleaner 
is designed to get rid of brake dust. Eagle one happens to be the brand I 
have used lately, with satisfactory results, although I am confident most any 
brand of wheel cleaner that advertises for removing brake dust works.
RSRBOB

Re: Mystery Brake Squeeze Problem

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 7/5/00 8:04:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< At least on some automotive master cylinders there is a little check valve
 that opens to let fluid back into the resevoir, then closes to push fluid
 out to the wheel cylinders.  If it gets sticky you get an intermittent "OH
 SHIII_!"  It can be a real chore to diagnose.
  >>
M/C master cylinders do not use a check valve system like that. They have a 
tiny hole cross bored in the cylinder to return fluid to the resvoir. It has 
been known to get plugged, restricting the return of fluid, however, the 
symptom for that problem is as the brakes get hot and the fluid expands, the 
brakes apply more and more drag, possibly enough to stop the motorcycle. 
Unlikely it is causing a pulse type symptom in braking. But, something to be 
aware of, should you experience braking/drag without apply lever pressure.
RSRBOB 

Re: Tour de France

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 7/5/00 11:45:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Above 90MPH the GTS steering seems to go light, and the front wheel gets a 
 bit of a shimmy on it. Any ideas? >>
Tire pressures, tire wear, front and rear, swing arm play, front and rear, 
any suspension busing/bearing ft and rear. Suspension/spring preload settings 
f/r.
RSRBOB

Re: Mystery Brake Squeeze Problem

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 7/4/00 9:20:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Very likely a fluid leak with air in the lines. Possibly a bad master
 cylinder.
  >>
Not if the problem is intermittant

Re: Mystery Brake Squeeze Problem

[RSRBOB]

Warped disc? Boiling brake fluid? 

Five-Time Motorcycle Champ Dunlop Killed in Crash

[RSRBOB]

Five-Time Motorcycle Champ Dunlop Killed in Crash

.c The Associated Press
  
TALLINN, Estonia (July 2) -- Five-time motorcycle world champion Joey Dunlop, 
honored by Buckingham Palace for his humanitarian work, was killed in a road 
race Sunday when his bike skidded in heavy rain and hit a tree. 

Dunlop, 48, from Ballymoney, Northern Ireland, was racing in a 125cc race on 
a 3.7-mile road circuit in the Estonian capital when he crashed. 

"The accident happened because of the rain. He lost control of the bike on a 
turn that sort of bends at a sharp angle and that is pretty tricky when it's 
raining,'' Tallinn police spokesman Kristo Kelder said. "It was a terrible 
accident, but it was totally because of the heavy rain.'' 

Police said Dunlop died instantly. The rest of the day's racing was canceled. 

Dunlop had won a 600cc race Saturday and a 750cc Superbike race earlier 
Sunday on the same track where he died. 

Dunlop was awarded an OBE, or Officer of the Order of the British Empire, for 
his charity work, mostly in the Balkans and Romania, and an MBE, or Member of 
the Order of British Empire, for his motorcycling exploits. 

In Ballymoney, mourners laid flowers at the pub owned by Dunlop. Northern 
Ireland's top two officials, David Trimble and Seamus Mallon, said the 
country was "shocked and saddened'' by the death of "Northern Ireland's 
premier motorbike ace.'' 

"Joey was a brilliant sportsman, a true man of the people, and a wonderful 
ambassador for Northern Ireland,'' Trimble and Mallon said. "It will be hard 
to find his like again.'' 

Dunlop started racing in 1969 and won 26 Isle of Man TT races, the first in 
1977. He won five Formula One world championships between 1980 and 1988. 

Last year, Dunlop won three races at the Isle of Man TT. News report said he 
was contemplating retiring from competition. 

Dunlop is survived by his wife, Linda, and five children. 

AP-NY-07-02-00 1441EDT

Copyright 2000 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news 
report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed 
without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.  All active 
hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL. 

Re: heat (water wetter)

[RSRBOB]

Actually, that sounds like a design problem of that given motorcycle, 
incompatability to me... Not a problem with the coolants, since about 
everything else out there does not have the problem. I think you should make 
them recall all affected bikes, and not rest till you bring them to their 
knees.

Re: heat (water wetter)

[RSRBOB]

Actually, I am inclined to believe their claims. I have seen other products 
that break surface tension of water. As I read the remember, it is adding an 
ounce or so per quart. A relative small percentage actually, of the total 
fluid content is the product. If you are protecting against high temps, you 
are probably not concerned about freezing over night. Since you are supposed 
to change coolant periodically anyhow, if you are in a climate where freezing 
is a problem, then, change to coolant with out water wetter. 

Re: heat (water wetter)

[RSRBOB]

Is Honda still in business?

Re: heat (water wetter)

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 7/3/00 11:15:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< There are some 
 other properties of automotive antifreeze that don't work well with some 
 motorcycle coolant systems. >>
What? I know there used to be A-F that was not for aluminum 
engines/radiators. I have not heard of different properties for Mc and 
automotive applications. Also, prior to this year, Yamaha did not produce 
their own brand of coolant, so, they apparently were not too worried about 
it. 

Re: Tail light question

[RSRBOB]

I suspect the hot lead for the brake light to that bulb has an open somewhere 
down the line. Check for power starting at the connector for the T/L bulb and 
work your way back to the switches, at some point, you will find power. Look 
for the break between the point where you have power and the last point where 
you had no power.
RSRBOB

Re: Broken Bolt in swingarm adjuster

[RSRBOB]

The aluminum is not hardened around the bolt. The most likely problem is it 
galled to the threads. In the good ol' US of A, a battery with 0 volts is of 
no use to us. Are you sure we did not throw that one away, and you rescued it?
RSRBOB
PS, use never seize when re installing bolts into aluminum, and be one better 
than the factory was!

Re: Battery

[RSRBOB]

On the subject of charging systems and batteries, it is difficult to 
determine while riding which is causing the problem if you are having a dead 
battery symptom. One quick and easy way to get an idea if you are getting any 
out put out of your charging system is to watch the "brightness" of the 
headlight while the bike is idling, then, rev the engine up a couple thousand 
RPM's and look for an increase in brightness. Usually, you will see an 
increase in brightness if the charging system is OK. I have been thinking 
about this and it appears no one on the list has mentioned ever having to 
replace a stator or rectifier, which leads me to believe they are pretty 
reliable. Some other machines, the Nightmare, I mean Vision, has the stator 
running in oil inside the engine. This design makes it more susceptible to 
failure because overheated oil breaks down the insulation between the wire 
windings and shorts out the stator, usually to ground. Rectifiers can have 
diode failures as well, but this seems to be a result of heat as well. If the 
stator is trying to compensate for a weak battery, the diodes can get hot and 
fail. Bear in mind, this is a technician's observation, not an electrical 
engineer. My laymen's explanation for the rectifier is its purpose in life is 
to convert the alternating current produced by the stator into direct current 
so the battery, which is always direct current, DC, can store it. BTW. I 
am working on inventing a battery that stores AC, a drill that goes in and 
turns corners, and an aluminum magnet. If you have a volt meter and suspect a 
failing battery, connect it to your battery then observe the volts as you 
start the bike. If you have a dramatic drop in volts, the battery is weak. 
Normally, you would not expect to see more than a couple of volts drop. While 
you have it hooked up, observe the volts at idle, then, rev the bike slowly 
up to 4000 or 5000 RPM and see if the volts increase. An increase in volts 
shows it is charging.
RSRBOB
Summary, the battery is higher probability than the charging system. Usually 
cheaper and easier to change out!

Re: Engine light and ABS light flashing

[RSRBOB]

Steve, 
There should be a code stored in your ECU to tell you exactly what was 
causing the engine light to stay on. Check the S.M. for putting the system in 
dealer mode and retrieving the code. 
The same should be true for the ABS light staying on. If it were flashing, 
you can turn the key on and off, if the problem no longer exists, the 
flashing stops. If it is on steady, it stores a code, or, if it is still 
flashing the problem still exists. One common source is spinning the rear 
wheel, like lubing the chain in gear engine running stores code 11.
RSRBOB

New List member (NON TECH CONTENT, SOCIAL IN NATURE)

[RSRBOB]

I met two GTS'ers by happen stance last week while cruising N Ga and Deal's 
Gap. One was a list member already, the other was not. I invited the new one 
to join the list, so he should be subscribing soon. His name is Greg, and has 
a 93 (imagine that). He is the original owner, and bought it new in 94. He is 
a great guy who loves his GTS, and, in general, just loves life.  Please 
extend the usual warm welcomes to him.
Thanks,
RSRBOB

Re: Bike week will end

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 6/20/00 12:17:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< This may spell the end to bike week. >>
You are dreaming... Local agencies claim three times as many attendees 
for bike week compared to the car speed weeks. You think they are going to 
turn down that revenue? In fact, Bike Week in March is so successful, it has 
a spin off called Biketoberfest. Biketoberfest is not nearly as well attended 
as Bike Week in March, however, it is well attended as a rally goes, and is 
steadily growing every year. As far as the deaths this year, it was a bad 
year. Bikes running head on into each other. Stupid stuff. It happens, 
sometimes, not always. Next year, there may not be a single death.

Re: Number of ABS Repairs so far

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 6/17/00 12:20:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

<< ABS's were fixed under the original factory warranty before the recall. >>
It is not a recall. A recall is federally mandated. 

Re: Ride Reports/bike memories/***FLUFF***

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 6/13/00 4:03:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< I had a RD350, the model before the 400. It was a great bike. Mine had a
 lovely factory purple paint job. ;^p  >>
That would be the 74 model, the lovely orange with the reversed air box would 
be the 75, and in 76 they went to the 400, with a lovely olive drab green as 
one of two colors offered.

Re: Communicators

[RSRBOB]

Good subject I am interested in obtaining bike to bike communicators, 
possibly with rider passenger intercom feature and even walkman connections. 
Anyone have any favorites? I heard from a shop I help at that the Chatter Box 
is not a quality piece. The parts department feels they get most of them 
returned, because they either never worked, or, do not have a reasonable 
range, which, seems to be line of sight. I have talked to other riders that 
say the later models of Chatter Box are much improved. Anyone
Thanks,
RSRBOB

Re: random question re. 02-sensor coupled to cat con

[RSRBOB]

That is the O2 sensor you are looking at. In that perfect world you referred 
to, everyone has a special socket that has a cut away so that you can slide 
it on the side of the sensor and use a socket to remove, while rotating from 
a theoretical center of mass, to prevent damage or breakage. It does not 
disconnect, electrically, at the sensor, there is a connector, which I will 
trust you on, somewhere up the wire, probably as you said, under the tank. 
There are spray cans for cleaning O2 sensors. their effectiveness is 
somewhat sketchy at best. Yes, it does sample the oxygen content in the 
exhaust gases, and feeds that data back to the ECU for mixture adjustments. 
The self diagnostics should help you trouble shoot the O2 sensor, if you 
suspect it is giving you problems. They are fragile, relative to most other 
components on the motorcycle. Also, you must be cautious if you attempt to 
clean it, the HC which most aerosol cans use for propellant can 
contaminate/ruin the O2 sensor. I am sure the car guys deal with O2 sensors 
more frequently that motorcycle technicians, so, may they will share their 
insight as well. I will ask for the group... what brought you to the 
point of needing to service/remove your O2 sensor?
RSRBOB

Re: Surging or throttle response?

[RSRBOB]

Forgive me on one account. I erroneously assumed everyone would have looked 
at the obvious, such as chain condition, throttle cable adj and the likes. I 
went right to the not so obvious and not maintenance related items. 
RSRBOB

Re: service manual......

[RSRBOB]

The service manual in the US is printed by an independant printer whom Yamaha 
orders it from. This would explain the difference in obtaining manuals from 
Yamaha Europe. They provide printed literature as they believe serves their 
best interests, which may or may not be the same way YMUS does it.

Re: Surging or throttle response?

[RSRBOB]

The surging I have dealt with most is not imprecise throttle response. The 
symptom is best described as a surge, whether that is technically accurate or 
not I will leave to the scholars to debate. The symptom occurs moreso when 
the engine is not up to operating temperature, and somewhere in 15 to 20 mph 
range. Personally, I have addressed the issue by adjusting the TPS. It 
helped, noticably, but, did not cure it. Others on the list said they had 
luck affecting the surge by setting the mixture screws on the ECM to the one 
o'clock position. As with ANYTHING on this list, someone has tried either or 
both with no success, as well. I did notice once in my PAID for service 
manual, that Yamaha gives a range of volts or ohms to set the TPS at, 
however, they immediately back it up by stating (paraphrased here) if the 
bike is not surging and the TPS is set out of range, leave it alone. To me, 
in a round about way, it sounds like it is ok to do what you need to do to 
get rid of the surge. I set mine to the highest spec with in the range, but, 
someday, I am going to go farther to see if that would eliminate the surge. 
Also, George P and myself found that the instructions on the GTS website are 
not accurate. When rotating the TPS in the direction suggested there, the 
problem became worse.
Good Luck,
RSRBOB

207's mileage........

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 6/4/00 12:39:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< The 207's stick great wet or dry. I get 7000 miles out of the rear 
 and 10,000 out of the front. >>
I tried the 207's this time and have 4000 on them. They will not see 5000 
front or rear. I agree they stick wonderfully well. BTW, I am using the sport 
compound, not the GP. Also, that is no burnouts, just corners and 
straights I will use them again, they do what they are supposed to, stick 
well, and slide predictably.
RSRBOB

Re: Plugs gap

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 5/30/00 9:23:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Does anyone know the required gap for the spark plugs ?
  >>
YES.
:)




0.8~0.9 mm
0.031"~0.035"

Re: Chain Lubrication (was Sudden buzz)

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 5/30/00 7:20:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< How can WD40 hurt the o-rings? >>
The unsubstantiated rumor I heard on this subject is it is the propellant not 
the product that attacks the o rings.

Re: Chain Lubrication (was Sudden buzz)

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 5/29/00 8:47:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

<< I can't imagine a worse chain cleaner or lube than WD 40.  That is some
 sticky stuff. >>
Then you would be amazed at how well WD40 cuts chain wax. it may not 
be much for lube, but it cleans like a white tornado... opps, wrong 
analogy, right idea.

Re: Easiest Way To Change Air Filters

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 5/28/00 8:10:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

<< Do you use OEM brand plugs?  Have you or has any body out there tried 
 a platinum or split fire replacements that last longer?
  >>
For me, NGK spark plugs are more than adequate. As far as Split Fires, my 
experience is not recent, and it is also not good. A dealer I worked at was 
carrying them, and we had many come out of the box that were just no good. 
NGK's are proven, and work, and last. Spark plugs will not gain you 
performance, unless your old ones were costing you performance. That is my 
suspicion on many spark plug adds as to how they achieve miraculous results. 
If you put any new plug in place of an old worn plug, it is going to improve 
power/economy. Not because the plug is a better design, but because it is 
new, and efficient. My 2 cents.
RSRBOB

Re: Canadian GTS's for sale

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 5/25/00 8:13:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Actually, that was $12,999 for the '93 and $14,999 for the '94. >>
Getting closer, I believe. I agree it came out at 12,999, but, also had two 
price increases in the 93 before the 94 ever hit. It went up $500 on two 
seperate occaisions, ending at $13,999. I have seen Yamaha do this before, 
and since, offer an introductory price, so to speak, and then, increase it 
later.

Re: Power

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 5/23/00 1:18:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

<< Since the RE line says "power" I assume that's the figure you want.  The
 GTS is rated at 100 bhp at the rear wheel, and it seems that the
 "official" number is pretty close to correct. >>
The rating is taken at the crankshaft, not rear wheel. There are a few 
reasons why. The first that comes to mind is it is a higher number when 
measured at the crank compared to rear wheel. No loss of power through the 
clutch, transmission, chain and sprockets, tire slip, etc. The second is, 
well, the second half of the first answer..

Re: Tires Again

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 5/11/00 6:36:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

<< Also, I'm no physics guy, but I think a simple
 increase in tire width, more specifically "contact
 patch," would make no difference in traction, all else
 being the same (like coefficient of friction, weight
 of bike, etc) >>

The one factor that has to be considered when increasing tire width is rim 
width. I am not saying on our bike it is a guarantee that an increased tire 
width will decrease contact patch, however, too wide a tire on too narrow a 
rim can. It "squeezes" the bead too close together, creating a smaller radius 
on the tire, yielding a smaller contact patch. I am willing to accept that if 
two contact patches are the same area, mathematically, they offer the same 
degree of traction, no matter what the tire width, or wheel width. Some 
people just get carried away with tire width, never realizing they are 
decreasing contact patch.
RSRBOB

Re: batteries, dead and otherwise

[RSRBOB]

My take on batteries is as follows. There are two keys to allowing them to 
live a long and happy life. First, the initial service. Batteries are about 
the #1 cost of warranty failures for most manufacturers. The reason for that 
is they are not properly serviced when new. In sealed batteries, that are 
shipped with their own pre-measured electrolyte, there is a specific 
procedure for wetting the battery. First, you must allow the provided 
electrolyte to drain for 20 minutes, and make sure all has indeed drained. 
Then, allow the battery to remain uncapped for an additional 20 minutes. This 
allows the electrolyte to be absorbed by the battery. When wetted properly, 
no liquid is left. It is all absorbed by the battery. Secondly, the battery 
must be brought to a full state of charge, before being put into use. The 
battery manufacturers usually recommend a minimum voltage of 12.5 DCV. I have 
seen some recommend 12.7 DCV as well. Batteries also have a discharge rate 
whether there is a draw on them or not. If your machine is sitting unused for 
a month or more, to preserve your battery life, you should recharge it. 
Sulphation and improper initial service are the two big killers of batteries, 
both of which are preventable. One other note, the electrolyte used with 
sealed batteries is not the same electrolyte as used in a conventional lead 
acid battery. They have different specific gravity readings, and should not 
be interchanged. Another note, once a sealed battery has been sealed, DO NOT 
OPEN IT. You cannot learn anything by peering into the sealed battery cells 
after it has been in use. Ideally, you would not be able to see liquid 
because it was serviced properly. The unknowing have done this, only to add 
water, and discover their battery is now leaking acid (due to overfilling). 
If you were to do this and see liquid, the battery was never wetted properly, 
and was never operating at 100% efficiency.

Re: Broken ABS

[RSRBOB]

Take it to a dealer to have them confirm it is not working. Have them call 
their regional RTA for an authorization to replace the hydraulic unit and the 
labor to install it. Wait for them to finish the job, ride your motorcycle, 
enjoy it, and stay on top of changing your brake fluid (dot 4) at least once 
a year to prevent a recurrence.
RSRBOB

Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 4/19/00 10:10:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< > Three that come to
 > mind would be the V boost on a V Max, they do not fail to mention the 
cycling
 > of the V Boost system when the key is powered up, the EXUP system also
 > cycles, and is also directly mentioned in printed format,  and the power
 > valves used on some current personal water craft engines, have a cleaning
 > cycle where they open and close as the engine is started, or after it is 
shut
 > off.
 
 Are all of these parts listed as being "serviceable?"  If not they are then 
that's
 why the details are listed. >>

The reason I referenced these components was to draw a parallel between ABS 
features and functions, as described in the service manual, and other 
mechanically/electrically similar features in other motorcycles. Yamaha is 
very clear on these motor operated devices that they do "cycle" as part of 
the design. I made no reference to the serviceability, which is not the point 
I was making here. My point was, that Yamaha in the past, in several areas, 
has shown a history of explaining what to expect a normal system to do. It 
was suggested that for any one of a number of reasons, Yamaha "knew" about 
this cycling, and chose not to mention it. My contention is that is not the 
way they operate. I believe they want technicians to know what to expect from 
a normally operating system, and how to determine if it is operating normally 
or not. As Yamaha states in the front of their service manuals, they are 
written for technicians, and therefore some basic knowledge is assumed. This 
means it is not intended as a how to book for someone with no mechanical 
experience or aptitude. This whole thing is becoming convoluted, and 
distorted from my original point. Yamaha has proven in the past that they do 
explain what to expect from systems such as this, and the likelihood of them 
choosing not to disclose this info is low probability. As far as my 
resources, they are much more extensive on the GTS and stock Yamahas than 
hand built chrome moly chasis for Banshees. Sorry.
RSRBOB

Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)

[RSRBOB]

The points I have made about the operation of the ABS and Yamaha publishing 
it in some form are based on similar information published by Yamaha on other 
electrically operated components on other models. In my opinion, they are 
consistant as stating the operations of theses components. Three that come to 
mind would be the V boost on a V Max, they do not fail to mention the cycling 
of the V Boost system when the key is powered up, the EXUP system also 
cycles, and is also directly mentioned in printed format,  and the power 
valves used on some current personal water craft engines, have a cleaning 
cycle where they open and close as the engine is started, or after it is shut 
off. All of these examples are listed in the service manuals, were covered at 
update seminars and published in print in the text that was distributed to 
the attendees (dealership technicians and service managers, generally) and as 
speculation, I am guessing the owners manuals as well. I did mention that as 
Terry presented parts of his findings, they were worthy of sales brochure 
material. I did not mean that his entire description should be listed, 
however, the feature benefit part would be worthy, and percievable as a value 
to potential customers. To fixate on the fact that his writings were too 
technical for a sales brochure is to miss my point. I clearly stated I 
researched the service manual, and some other information from Yamaha, on the 
GTS, and there is no refrence to what he says. It would be nice if the ABS 
did what he said, it would be even better if Yamaha said it did.
RSRBOB

Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 4/15/00 1:11:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< He wasn't supposed to know about it, Bob and neither are you. >>

Jay, you have no idea what I am supposed to know, and what I am not supposed 
to know. You are not the only one with resources... State 
your opinion, but, do not tell me what I am not supposed to know.. people 
that know me, know my resources.

Re: XS vrs GTS reintro. (Semi-fluff)

[RSRBOB]

A V Max is billed as a 1200cc bike.


In a message dated 4/15/00 11:53:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< I have thought about what the GTS would be like with a V-Max motor.  
1400cc V-4
 shaft drive, plenty of torque and HP. Very low CG.
 Anyhow, thoughts for a custom bike. >>

Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 4/14/00 3:58:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< I don't necessarily see the real process of what happens as a "feature" as
 long as it happens.  
 SNIP
Anything that can be sold as advanced, new or better technology is spun in 
the sales force as a feature. What you described would be tremendous in that 
department. If that feature occured as a result of other engineering, it is 
still touted as a feature.

 A good analogy is that not many people are the least
 bit concerned about the actual process of opening a fuel injector pintle
 that takes place over a couple of microseconds.  In reality--the computer
 typically sends a larger current during initial opening to speed up the
 process and force the injector open, then the current is reduced to a lower
 level that will maintain the injector opening until the decision is made to
 close the injector.  See http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM1949.html for a
 justification for this statement.  To the common consumer, or even the most
 seasoned mechanic, it's a complete "don't care"--to the design engineer,
 it's a way to save power (heat) in the electronics, increasing reliability.
SNIP
I disagree with your analogy. You describe something that is imperceptible to 
the consumer in your analogy, however, in your ABS conclusion, it is 
noticable, and could be concieved as advantageous. Something so minute as 
varying voltages on individual injectors would be irrellevant to any one 
other than the designer, I presume, unless you can use a scope to diagnose a 
problem with them. What you described in your experience would be something 
someone could feel it doing or not doing, therefore, a consumer would be 
aware there is a problem, and, would expect a dealer to know that it does do 
it, and be able to fix it. That is the difference, to me.
 
 Granted, I only came across the information on ABS cycling by coincidence,
 but I feel confident that I understand what I experienced. 
SNIP
I did not disagree you experienced what you described. I took exception to 
you finding something as significant as that, and being the first and only 
one to know about it. Not that it didnt happen, that it was supposed to 
happen, is where we differ.

 I'm sure that there is more, but I don't think Yamaha is going to share 
their software
 flow diagrams any time soon.  Basically, there is a lot more going on behind
 the scenes than you will EVER find in a shop manual.
SNIP
Correct, there is a very real thing called proprietary information. Look at 
any Yamaha graph of an ignition curve, two things you notice. First, there is 
no numbers to equate any discernable values to the curve, rendering it 
useless for anyone desiring to copy it or improve upon it, and second, there 
is a note saying the graph is only representative of the idea (loosely 
paraphrased) of the ingnition curve.


  > Certainly, I respect your 
 >experience and insight. However, my understanding of how and why a 
 >corporation does what it does and does not do, will not allow me to believe 
 >you have uncovered something such as this.
 
 I'm curious as to what exactly it is that I've uncovered that you find so
 puzzling
SNIP
I am not puzzled by your findings. I do not feel what you found is inherent 
to the design.


 BTW--I enjoy the banter--the list has been too quiet lately and this thread
 is even GTS related (for the most part.)
 
 Terry Baker
  >>
Agreed, we have their blood pumping again!
RSRBOB

Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)

[RSRBOB]

In a message dated 4/14/00 2:25:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< 
 Thanks for keeping us aware of Yamaha's perspectives.
 
  -K >>
Thanks Kelly, however, in fairness to Yamaha, those were my observations, not 
theirs, which they would be happy to point out.
RSRBOB

Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)

[RSRBOB]

Terry,
What you have experienced from improper assembly does not make it a design 
feature. What you describe would be a feature, a sales feature, that, 
certainly would be worth mentioning, if it exisited. It would also stand to 
reason that if this were supposed to happen, Yamaha has a responsibility to 
disclose how to diagnose and repair the condition if it did not exist. The 
components you described are indeed in the system, granted, but, your 
conclusions are not supportted. I also understand Yamaha does not go into 
detail about operation to the finite degree, which is by design. Yamaha, in 
my opinion, is a conservative company, and is sensitive to customer safety, 
and their own liability. If they do not want critical complex components  
disassembled, they niether offer them avaible as individual pieces, or offer 
information on how to service or repair them. I am guessing this is a 
corporate decision not made with out the assistance of lawyers. Further, not 
everyone that is passionate about their motorcycle is qualified to work on 
it, and not everyone understands the difference between the two, esp the 
passionate unqualified ones. Some know their limtis, and wisely never cross 
them, others have been known to just jump right in. Certainly, I respect your 
experience and insight. However, my understanding of how and why a 
corporation does what it does and does not do, will not allow me to believe 
you have uncovered something such as this. I agree, further discussion can 
continue off list, I felt it important to respond to your explanation on 
list, for the benefit of those that are interested.
RSRBOB

Re: FLUFF!!! ZRX1100 for sale!

[RSRBOB]

Dang, Kevin, I thought you could see the light, my worst fear was you were 
going to sell that one to get the 1200..

Re: ABS cycles

[RSRBOB]

Terry,
Not according to the service manual. It has to actually sense a differential 
in wheel RPMs between front and rear, not rate of decel. What you describe 
sounds like a good theory, however, I can find no refrence to what you 
describe as self cycling or sensing decel in the service manual. Perhaps I 
have missed it? Please send the page #'s so I can catch up.
RSRBOB