Re: [h-cost] historic academic robes
I've gotten permission to make my own cap, gown and hood for my graduation this June. I would like to use the Alcega scholar's robe, or something similar. Does anyone know of a good source for patterns? Either look into the Janet Arnold 'Patterns of Fashion' covering the Renaissance, or ask on a Harry Potter costume forum like [EMAIL PROTECTED] . ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity 1850s design
I would say that an experienced seamstress could do that dress easily on 8 yards of fabric, probably a few less if it wasn't matched plaid. Cut the skirt in one piece and the plaid matches itself. Then cut all the other pieces that way up on the plaid, so they match too. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: - [h-cost] New Simplicity 1850s design
I'm not questioning the design (the basic design looks good though the one in the photo doesn't seem to fit the model all that well, I'd say the skirt's too big, but other than that I like it. I'd use that bodice and sleeves, add a peplum, and call it a jacket. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] To Tab or not to Tab?
Part of me wants to leave it without tabs, because it looks fussy to me. But many of the bodices had these whacky shaped tabs, and the original obviously did too..sighdecisions, decisions. What is your vote? Thanks for your opinions! They're stupid, but leave them on. It looks even more stupid without them, IMHO. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Nanban trader... again!
In any case, Spanish OR Portuguese, I am totally unable to find anything even resembling long poufy pants. Anywhere but on Japanese representations of European traders. So if the event is mostly Japanese, I'd go with the Japanese representations of the namban, and cross-dress if I was a biological female playing a namban. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Nanban trader...
But did you notice there are no women? Not even one! Every time I think I've spotted one, I realize it's just a man in poofy pants. *grumble*... There must have been *some* kind of woman, at *some* point, who came on one of those ships! :-P I think it was against Japanese law of the time for there to be namban women in Japan. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Nanban trader...
Though you've already helped some, by writing namban instead of nanban... Now to do some more Googling... _ nam ban = southern barbarian viet nam - southern provence ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Nanban trader...
My first question, of course, is: what would they wear? I can find tons of information on Spain for these years (and gorgeous outfits too), but nothing on Portugal. Well... yes and no. Royalty seems to be interchangeable between Spain and Portugal at the time -- or is this just a case of my having not done enough research yet and getting the wrong impression? I have a book of namban art, showing these folks thru Japanese eyes. How close to San Francisco do you live? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Schaube
I need a little help: I'm looking for pictures and patterns for this kind of dress: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Schaube.PNG it is called Schaube in German, originally from arabian aljubbeh or something like that. Somewhere I found that it is also called robe, which is probably not very helpful, because the word robe can mean many different things. It is a sort of a shorter cloak, often with fur. I cannot tell more, as the robe was changing through centuries and the word for it was still the same. How's that called in English? Do you know any details about this kind of dress or where to find them? Books, webpages? With pictures or patterns? I don't know where you live, but in America the great-great-grandchild of this garment is worn by judges and graduates. They're likely to have a yoke with the back piece gathered into it. Snape, in the Harry Potter movies, wears one. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. The Coptic people did a thing that looked a lot like knitting. Is this movie example something so far off? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
The Coptic's had a form of needle knitting and to my understanding a form of macramé' was known in Egypt. It's called naalbinding, and is almost identical to knitting except that it's done with a threaded needle. The thread follows almost the same path as it does in knitting, except that the worker has to thread a new needle every once in a while. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Gack! Is she pregnant or is she not? Need your opinions!
Do you think she is pregnant? Seems a little low for pregnancy. I'd say she wasn't. Most of the images of these dresses show women in the same shape as this one, and I don't believe every one of them was painted during pregnancy. BTW, I made one of these once. In mine I looked pretty much like she does in hers, and I wasn't the least bit pregnant at the time. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th Century German Paper Doll
Thought some of you might get a kick out of
this.
http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/mi08115a05b.jpghttp://www.bildindex.de/bilder/mi08115a05b.jpg
(I have a vague recollection it might have been posted before, if so, my
apologies.)
It is a fragment from a woodcut print. It is water colored. On the back
there has been a pair of templates attached, not the original backside.
Some years ago I saw this in a book about toys, and had not been able to
track it down because the book didn't say where it was from. Thank you so
much.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Heidi, Kate Greenaway, and Aesthetic dress
Fashion magazines of the period, such as Harper's, would be another good
source, but I haven't followed the chain that far.
I'd say humor and satire magazines, like Punch, would have more coverage of
Aesthetic-style clothing than regular fashion magazines. The Aesthetics
weren't high fashion, they were counter-culture, the Beatniks, Hippies, and
Punks of their day.
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Re: [h-cost] favorite one-period-interprets-another
And, at least around here, the fit of the jeans. Guys wear them
ridiculously over-sized and baggy, and gals wear them ridiculously tight!
True sometimes, but by no means always. I've seen many young women -- even
slender ones--who wear their jeans with plenty of ease. I haven't typically
seen men wear jeans tight, but I've seen plenty of people of both sexes who
wear normal, close-to-the-body but not horrendously tight, jeans. In that
case, it can be harder to tell the gender by body shape and clothing alone.
There are neighborhoods in San Francisco where some men wear horrendously
tight jeans, and their body shape leaves very little to the imagination...
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Re: [h-cost] illustrator vs fashion historian
And, at least around here, the fit of the jeans. Guys wear them
ridiculously over-sized and baggy,
And hanging half way down the *rse in London - I swear some of them will
fall down as there is no waist and hips to stop them.
and gals wear them ridiculously tight!
but showing builder's b*ms and thongs - lovely
No way to
confuse the two.
Notice also that different subsets of the jeans-wearing population wear
them differently. Old Hippies might still want them embroidered where
their kids want them machine embroidered (a recent trend). Construction
crews want them with many pockets and maybe with paint on them. Punks want
them with studs, paint, safety pins, and artificial rips. Kids into Grunge
want more natural rips. Female kids into the sexy look might want
rhinestones with the machine embroidery, while their male counterpart will
want their jeans oversized and dragging on the ground, possibly with Rap
logos or graffiti on them. Businessmen, on casual clothing days, want them
really clean, maybe with cuffs. Cowboys, real or imagined, like them tight
and with straight legs. 30-something women, and middle-aged women who
weren't Hippies, don't necessarily want the Levi look with double-stitched
seams done in orange thread. And the latest thing here (near San
Francisco) seems to be jeans with the hems about a foot off the ground.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] favorite one-period-interprets-another
Shoes seem to be the best giveaway to gender. Can you really tell me
that you haven't seen someone whose gender you couldn't tell by their
clothing?
Not from the front anyway.
So, I still think that a future reenactor, particularly male, could be
reasonably accurate from the 1950's in jeans and a t-shirt. Clear back to
the 1850s if he wore a plain shirt, not unlike a man's shirt from
Renaissance times and earlier G.
Hairstyle is another indicator, so from the neck down you might be right,
but above that you won't be. (You knew that.)
However, since that's not pretty wouldn't it be deemed beginner garb?
As it happens, I went round and round with one of my Victorian groups,
where they actually thought Working Class was what you did till you could
afford Middle Class. I, one of the costume resource people for that group,
had been doing Working Class for years, with triple piping where
appropriate on my Sunday best dress, etc. That year we attracted lots of
Working Class Newbies who, at my instigation, did it just to have fun. And
fun we had - at the expense of some of those same misguided Middle Class
folks. Now, years later, some of those Working Class not-Newbies-anymore
are still doing it, same reason.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Re: illustrator vs fashion historian
Most people don't realize that what they're wearing right now, like as
they're reading this e-mail, will be considered historical 100 years
from
now.
So I should carefully preserve this old ratty bathrobe for
posterity?? Sorry, I couldn't resist!
Oh yes, you really must. Think how posterity will thank you. ROTFLMposteriorO
CarolynKayta Barrows
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finding recent historical fabric (was Re: [h-cost] Re: illustrator vs fashion historian
Of course, what I would like is a replicator that would give me some of
that 1960s velour! I wish I could find some of that stuff.
It's still around. Look in thrift stores that have fabric. These won't be
the clean places like Goodwill, but I'm sure, if you do thrift stores at
all, you know of a funky-junky thrift store or two. Yard sales, garage
sales, and estate sales are also possible sources. Discount fabric stores
are another possible sources. Some of them have the most amazing
out-of-date stuff.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] re: favorite one-period-interprets-another
Oh, fun. I have a Centennial Dress from the 1870's that's a really
interesting take on quasi-Colonial. I'm still trying to figure out what
they were doing with the flat-fronted skirt that has some really odd seams
to make quasi-panniers, and the bias-wrapped elbow-triangles are a hoot.
Look in the 1870s, or later, for Dolly Varden costumes. I have an
illustrated history of American theatre, from the 1860s to the 1960s (with
some very interesting photos of people who got famous in the movies or TV
later), and Dolly Varden was a play that kept getting revived. It seems
you can always tell the decade the photo is from.
Victorian Fancy Dress costumes are just as hoot-like.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] illustrator vs fashion historian
But isn't a fashion historian a modern construct, and
by definition one who looks at the past and not the
present?
You've got your definition about right, but no, fashion historian is not
a modern construct. There have been fashion historians since at least the
mid-1800s, if we include the folks like Violet-le-Duc and Köhler who
produced those Victorian costume books we now laugh at as inaccurate
Victorian re-drawings. Heck - Vecellio was something of a fashion
historian in the late-1500s-early-1600s, in his own way, and Dover has
reprinted the book of his on which I'm basing that opinion. These are the
giants on whose shoulders folks like Janet Arnold stood.
And isn't your critiscism/clarification of
Kate Greenway
BTW, I don't criticize Kate Greenaway's work for what it isn't, rather I
love it for what it is.
equally applicable to the people who
design stuff for Hot Topic and other alternative
fashion? Basically, i'm confused as to why you would
point out the difference
We use her work to document something which is, from a 2006 perspective,
historical, but she didn't set out to do historical when she was working,
and neither do the designers from Hot Topic. Both were/are designing to
their contemporary markets.
And yes, some of her stuff shows people in historically based
costumery. That makes them historical examples of how a person of her
period interpreted these other periods. But that doesn't make her a
costume historian, only an illustrator putting historical clothes on some
of her models. And she might well have gone to the books of costume
historians of her day to get her examples.
(My personal favorite one-period-interprets-another is the early 1920s
doing American colonial 1770s, complete with the dropped early-20s
waist. I actively collect examples of this.)
-- surely there aren't fashion
historians out there, slavishly trying to document
2005!
Ah, but there are. That's why folks like the VA and Metropolitan Museum
haven't stopped collecting currently fashionable garments. They're storing
these things now for the historians many years in the future who will thank
them for having done so. Consider, we would have more historical garments
now if people in the past had specifically done this for us.
Most people don't realize that what they're wearing right now, like as
they're reading this e-mail, will be considered historical 100 years from
now. And that some theatre costumer or historical researcher then would
kill for a photo or actual example of it. Scarey, huh?
Of course, it is great to know that Kate
Greenway represents the tastes of a minor group :-)
...those aforementioned Aesthetics, some of whom dressed very much like
what her illustrations show.
(if I were more awake, I'd try to form this into some
better question/argument about what IS a good source,
if not a commercial illustrator who depicts the style
of HER group at HER time!)
If you mean is she a source for what her group was wearing, you're
right, just like Vogue Magazine will continue to be a good source for
whatever style it is they document every month. But Vogue doesn't set out
to document history, it's just that back issues of it are used by
historians who do.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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what will become historical costume (wasRe: [h-cost] illustrator vs fashion historian
When one's in the thick of it, it's hard
to see sometimes.
Remembering to see such things is a mindset. Now every new thing that
comes out, in any field, I remember that it will get old some day.
Anyway, as far as clothes go, who knows what the future will latch onto or
how they will interpret it. Going back to 1968I have like 3 dresses of
Mother's made of grey flannel, decorated with rhinestones. Grey flannel and
rhinestones? Three of them? Was that a thing that fall? Will it be
documented
in fashion mags? How will the Kyoto accessorize it?
I like how your brain works.
What would an 18th century person think of the way the Kyoto displayed those
18th century gowns? We love it [well, I do] but would our 18th century time
travelers approve?
These days I'm writing alternate-universe science fiction. My current
story involves time-traveling clothes as a plot device. When a re-enactor
puts on his or her historical costume, they start to become their
characters. Parts of my plot hinge on this point.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Period for Heidi
The girls' dresses look very Kate Greenway to me. I am not sure when this
style was vogue. The Kate Greenway paperdoll book has a lot of
illustrations of those designs.
Kate Greenaway illustrations reflect what the Aesthetics were wearing in
the late-1870s-early-1880s. It's not mainstream. The woman was a
commercial illustrator, not a fashion historian.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Period for Heidi
That dress seems to me to smack of Little House on the Prairie. In my own
mind, Heidi wears dirndls--maybe my childhood Heidi book dressed Heidi
that way?
You're right. Austrian, German, and Swiss peasants could wear dresses that
look like dirndls. Folkwear (folkwear.com) has a pattern (#123) so you can
see what they look like.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Period for Heidi
Hi all! Does anyone know the decade that the Heidi story is supposed to be
set in?
The girl in the wheelchair looks vaguely like mid-1880s. In another one of
those 39 images, it looks like there's an adult woman wearing a mid-1880s
dress and hat. In no other image is the year, or even the decade, or even
the country, apparent.
I'm especially interested in the orange dress here:
_http://tinyurl.com/qfsak_ (http://tinyurl.com/qfsak)
Is there a name for this type of little-girl dress? Is the petticoat
underneath probably just a skirt, or would it be a whole dress? The reason
I'm
asking is that I'm making a doll and this is just the kind of dress I
had pictured
for her. I will be making the rest of her family later and I suppose I
should think about making them all match. :)
The orange dress looks old-timey to me. That is to say Hollywood
historical. I've never seen any photos of any little girl wearing a dress
with a high waist like your orange one. I've only seen Napoleonic fashion
plates of such things, and I don't believe that period for this film.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Straight front corset
The rude comment part referred to my criticism of corset patterns
developed from a pattern block as seen in Waisted Efforts--unless someone
with a great deal of skill alters the pattern, the result is almost always
all wrong.
If you really didn't like the pattern I can see where you'd want to make
rude comments about it.
As to extra padding, the Edwardians came up with an amazing range of
garments and products to generate the right shape, from the inflatable
bust pad to heavily boned bust forms and beyond. Examples:
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/straightfrontcorsets/photos/browse/92a0
Yep. It's absolutely period to improve nature - for about any historical
period there is - and, in fact, one of the things Edwardians used was
called a Bust Improver.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
However, this beautiful S-shape of the edwardian times can only be
achieved by such a corset...
It can be faked to some extent by pooching out the front of the bodice or
shirtwaist, and adding a little fullness to the back of a straight-front
skirt. This enhancement seems to have been done in the period, in addition
to the use of the straight-front corset.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
In this I even must include the Norah Waugh pattern in Corsets
Crinolines; while it may well be based on an extant corset, it is in no
way representative of the straight front corset, and if you're trying to
get that look, you'll be disappointed.
Gee. I have one of those, straight out of Waugh's book, and I find that it
generates the straight-front look just fine on me. It even looks like
the ones in the Sears catalogs of 1900 and 1902, (which I have in reprint)
right down to the seams. I like mine fine and have worn it for many
years. It was no fun to construct, but it is unique among my various
period-repro corsets in that it has never lost a bone.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
That sounded really, really, rude, so I'd like to apologize now and avoid
the rush. =} I'm passionate about the fit of corsets, and when I see
people wearing ill-fitting corsets and then going on and on about how
uncomfortable and torturous corsets are, it makes my teeth itch.
But my Waugh corset fits me well enough that I can wear it all living
history day and live to tell the tale. I'm not sure what your objection to
it is.
As to the Waugh corset, again, I'm not saying it's inaccurate; I'm saying
it's not representative. The straight front was technically invented in
1900, but there are corsets that provided a straight front from before
then, and corsets that didn't after then. In those first couple of years,
there was a LOT of experimentation with the general idea; the Waugh corset
is clearly from this era, and is one of the dead-end lines of
experimentation. It's really just not that well-designed a corset, since a
horizontal seam all the way across the side of the waist is a Bad Idea
when it comes to this sort of thing.
Mine is lined, and the seam at the waist doesn't cause a problem. But
then, I don't lace it super tightly, only tightly enough to produce the
right curves, and I wear something for a chemise under it.
The early straight fronts were different in a lot of ways from what came
about after the experimental period, and while they would have been
considered real straight fronts in 1900 and 1901, by the latter half of
1902 they would have been completely out of step with the fashion and
incapable of producing the fashionable silhouette. To go back to the
original question, the silhouette desired was that of the middle of the
decade, and the corset desired was one that would enforce that
forward-leaning pose sometimes called an S-curve. The Waugh corset is not
of the style used to create this silhouette.
We do 1901, and the Waugh one does fine for that. I think it would do fine
for 1904 or 1906 when that S-curve is much more pronounced.
When I first saw it 15 years ago, I thought, Wow, yep, that's a
stereotypical Edwardian corset! When I look at it now, I think,
Wow! What a weird example of an Edwardian corset! It must be
from--yep, I knew it: 1901.
Wierd example it may be, but I've seen early examples, in like Sears
catalogs, of pretty much the same thing. Again, I'm not sure what your
objection to it is.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] OT - what do you make to beat the heat
Anyway, what are other people making to cope with this seasonably toasty
weather?
Mini-dress-length t-shirt I didn't have to sew. It's good for around the
house and not anywhere else. For going someplace, add jeans and shoes.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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[h-cost] 1901 bathing suit event
The Hyde Street Pier Living History Players are doing their 1901 bathing
suit event Saturday, August 12th at the San Francisco Maritime National
Historical Park. At least one of us will be wearing a bathing suit, and
the rest of us will be wearing either c.1901 Summer clothes or (non-Navy)
c.1901 sailor clothes.
Everyone is invited to come down in c.1901 costume and splash with us in
the bay or watch us splash. Period-looking picnic lunches are welcome, as
are games which can be played on our narrow sloping beach. Low tide will
be at 8:18am, and high tide will be at 3:08pm. The average water
temperature is 55 degrees, Fahrenheit.
Parking is truly awful, so carpool or use public transit whenever
possible. Local restaurants are plentiful, and range in price from
McDonalds and In-N-Out Burger to more than I can afford. There is no
admission fee to the pier itself, and costumed living history participants
may freely visit the ships for which there normally is a fee. Please fill
out a volunteer form at the volunteer office, if you haven't already done
this, so the park can count your hours as donations to us.
For details, contact me off-list.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Really OT! But too funny....
These are the winners in the [in]famous Bulwer-Lytton
Fiction Contest a contest for the worst opening line to a novel ever.
The link was dead, and searching on the SJState web page didn't turn up
anything under Bulwer-Lytton. Now what?
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] What do you do?
What do you do when you finally realise you dont want to reenact anymore,
and when your costumes gets bored to look at?
When alll your reenactment friends leaves you, and your family two?
What is left then?
Wait till the feeling passes and do some more re-enactment later? Get
different re-enactment friends? Write historical fiction? Costume for a
theatre? Do live action role playing gaming?
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Overdyeing with tan
(I'm not thrilled about the idea of using tea because of the tannin, and I
suspect tea [and coffee] is not all that fast either.)
I'm told that caffeine-free coffee, or tea, can be used as a dye if you're
worried about tannin. I don't know if it's true or not.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Overdyeing with tan
I don't think the caffeine has anything to do with the tannin.
I heard that caffeine was the acidic part of coffee or tea, as tannin is
with walnut husks. So the suggestion was to use caffeine-free, which would
be acid-free, and the better thing archivally. But I only know that I
heard this, not that it was necessarily true. I wonder if anyone else has
heard the same suggestion.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Neck Ruff
How do you construct the neck ruff so that the hem,
etc is hidden?
If you don't want a visible hem at the outside edge, don't make a hem
there. Use doubled material, folded over any stiffening you think you
need, with the fold at the outside edge. That way there's no hem to have
to hide.
I'm making a double-sided blackwork ruff, for my blackwork partlet, out of
folded material. I'm hiding all the thread ends in between the two layers,
after attaching them securely to something inside there as if it were the
back side of regular embroidery. And I'm running the embroidery right out
to that folded edge. I have yards of embroidery still to do on the ruff
part, so no pictures of any finished garment yet. But I finished the neck
band and body of the partlet last year, added a plain white ruff
temporarily, and wore it that way. (If I thought my guild would let me I'd
spangle in between the embroidered motifs, but I'm just a Lady-in waiting,
so they won't.)
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Re: The Shadow
Are there any costume sites or books about this movie? I tried a Google
search but my computer is slow and shadow brings up a whole lot of other
movies and things.
First go to IMdB.com (Internet Movie dataBase). Search there for The
Shadow, and, because there are multiple results, go to the 1994 one. The
The Shadow page doesn't have its own photo gallery as many more recent
film pages have, but there are photo links in the side bar on the
left. Have fun. (Wrong Baldwin for me...)
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] O.T. re my visit to Washington DC
O.K. folks, I will be in Washington in just over two weeks (please excuse
a small squee!) and visiting Alden O'Brien at the DAR Museum on the Friday
morning 23rd.
We would like to meet anyone who can make it for dinner/supper/evening
meal at the hotel Harrington that evening, around 6.00-6.30. This is so my
husband - more into sport than costume - can disappear to the room and
watch TV if he gets bored. We would love to treat you all, but
unfortunately it will have to be Dutch treat - sorry.
Looking forward to meeting anyone who cares to come.
I could have made it a couple of weeks ago, but I'm back home now. Sorry
'bout that.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] book on drafting h-costumes
Does anyone know a good book on drafting patterns for historical
costumes? I mean drafting custom patterns, like tailors do. I've been
searching for some such books on amazon.com, but I haven't found anything
promising. Since I can't look inside the book, I never know whether it's
a tailor - drafting book or not.
P.S.: I'd welcome periods from the middle ages to the turn of the
century (19/20)
There is a reprint of a c.1901 one for drafting patterns for women's
clothes. If you're interested in that period, I'll go look up the
particulars. But if you want to cover more than that one narrow period,
you may have to get several books.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] U.S.-based Fabric stores closing
Hearing all your sad tales of your local fabric stores closing
Interesting that you should say U.S.-based fabric stores in your subject
line. About half of the fabric stores I patronize these days, while they
are located in the US, are run by recent immigrants to the U.S. who still
have fabric connections back in their countries of origin. Some are from
India, and I can get sarees or other India fabrics (like cotton) from these
people. Some are from places like Viet Nam, and I can get some really
interesting oriental fabrics (like silk) from those people. So yes, these
shops are U.S. based, but they mostly cater to a foreign-born clientele
that still sews a lot, and they seem to be in no danger of closing. I love
living in the U.S.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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RE: [h-cost] Hancock Fabrics
Washougal, Washington is just across the I 205 bridge and a bit east from
Portland/Vancouver. It has the BIG Pendleton outlet store. What you see is
what you get. I picked up 15 yards of light as a feather light, dark teal,
100% Pendleton wool on the remnant table for $1.50 a yard. It is in several
pieces but I can deal with that! Also has a huge crate full of buttons -
oh, and seconds and older model Pendleton clothing for mundane wear.
Look up www.mapquest . Put in Portland, Oregon - Washougal, Washington -
Milwaukie, Oregon and there you have us.
Oh yeah! Every time I go to Portland I bring back a large box of
wool. Someone here in CA asked me if it was poly-wool, and I said no, it
was Pendleton.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Re:Hancock's closing
Wal mart is really the kudzu of retail. They're cheep, put they never
really have what you want or need. And they kill off all the
competition, and don't have real wool or other natural fibres
I just bought some 100% cotton in a WalMart in VA on my recent vacation
there. It was on a dollar table. It was nice thin stuff of just the right
weight for a wardrobe of shifts and undershirts, so I bought the rest of
the bolt. I had recently bought some like it in a WalMart in Northern CA,
and wished I had more, so when I went into the store in VA, looking for a
bathroom, I checked out the fabric section. The previous time I'd been in
my local Northern AC WalMart I found the wood buttons I needed for another
project, after buying all the dollar shift/undershirt cotton they had (and
showing the cloth section ladies how I knew it was cotton).
I agree with your kudzu analogy, but I often find things I need in
WalMarts. I used to work for New York Fabrics, which got swallowed up by
JoAnne's, so I don't go into JoAnne's unless it is to take advantage of a
loss leader. I'm very careful not to buy anything else while there. There
are a few Hancock's stores still in my area, plus all the discount places
in San Francisco's small garment district.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: A Few Thoughts about Crochet (was Re: [h-cost] Multipletextiletechniques...)
I want to try naalbinding, too (am even spinning yarn for it), but suspect
it won't be easyAll of the books and online stuff I've seen assume
you're right handed, and I'm not.
So read the directions, then look at the illustrations in a mirror. When I
teach crochet or embroidery or knitting to a right-hander (I do these
right-handed), I sit next to them so they can see things in the same
direction as they're doing. When I teach to a left-hander, I sit across
from them, so they can see things in the same direction as they're
doing. It works.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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[h-cost] Re: A Few Thoughts about Crochet
I just wasn't interested in it (crochet) until I thought of it as a means
to an end (the Mrs. Weasley cardigan). It still seems...limited.
I agree. I've never been interested in it because (1) most of the things
I've
seen made in that technique look ugly to me, and (2) it's primarily a
Victorian technique, and I'm not really that interested in Victorian costume.
What about those elegant Edwardian Irish crochet dresses and waists? I too
remember the clunky crochet stuff produced in the 1960s (I kinda liked them
even if you didn't), but modern crochet sweaters look as nice as knitted
sweaters do. Crochet is actually not as limited as some people think. I
will agree it's not for everyone. But then, I only knit if I'm doing a
period when crochet hadn't been invented yet.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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[h-cost] what's your dress dummy's name? (was What's your dressmaker's dummy wearing this spring?
Mine's name is Patience. Right now she's wearing several hats that don't
have hat boxes, and several neckties waiting to be sewn together into a skirt.
A polo shirt (too small, but it's embroidered with the image of my fav.
horse), a broomstick skirt (needs to be mended where the hem caught under
office chair wheels), an empty backpack, a mesh bag of small leather purse
kits (girl scouts), and 5 or 6 sea shell necklaces.
She's a multi faceted individual.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] busks with clasps
Does anyone know when the busks with clasps came into use? From the
reading I have been doing, it seems as if the busk referred to in 16c
costuming was a solid piece of wood or whalebone, rather then two seperate
pieces that clasped together.
Those soft pre-1830s corsets still have one-piece busks, and the 1850s ones
have the two-piece ones. So the change must have come sometime in between
them, probably as steel became more common. Sometime after 1850 petticoats
go from starched cotton and corded cotton to spring steel.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] fall front trousers, etc.
If the Eagle one is too late, how 'bout using the workmans breeches in
Costume Close-Up, the Williamsburg book?
It's something about not owning that book...
Today I took a look at the Simplicity Caribbean Adventure (#4923) pattern
guide sheet, and even tho that pattern is way cheaper on sale, has more
garments in the package, and has a trousers pattern cut pretty much like
what I want, it doesn't have all the snobby little details the Kannick's
one (#KK4303) does, like the extra waistband buttons and the watch pocket.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] fall front trousers, etc./ Costume Close-Up for sale
I happen to own 2 copies. When I was there I bought an extra just in
case someone might want it. Do you want it? It's brand new. No
eye-prints on it or anything. Pay cover price it's yours.
If anyone else on h-cost wants it, same deal. If you live in or around
Silicon Valley, no postage!
I'm interested, but just bought another book today, full of photos of women
in trousers. Could we do some kind of trade?
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] fall front trousers, etc.
I guess you misunderstood me about the date.
I guess I did. I thought you were talking about an existing pair of
trousers from the first quarter of the 19thC. I couldn't find the Eagle
pattern online, to compare with.
The pattern is about 1780's.
As Suzi has suggested, the basic FullFall pattern was well established the
last quarter of the 18thC and the long version continued in use for about
100 years until the slim style came into vogue. If you use the ...Eagle
pattern as it is presented, you will have the style you are seeking.
- Original Message -
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] fall front trousers, etc.
Carolyn, I have a pair of trousers from the first quarter 19th C and they
are constructed pretty much the same as the LongFall of the ...Eagle
pattern
that included knickers. The two major differences are the width of the
waist band and the back omits the capacious seat and gusset. No pockets,
but
the from is cut full enough to accommodate them. There are buttons for
straps or suspenders. Basically, the naval trou still being used through
the 1940's.
The 1840s is kind of late for what I'm doing. I need that baggy seat, to
cover my anatomy and to 'read' early, and I need the resultant trousers to
stay up without suspenders. Does the Eagle pattern do that? Is it a good
pattern otherwise?
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] fall front trousers, etc.
The 1840s is kind of late for what I'm doing. I need that baggy seat, to
cover my anatomy and to 'read' early, and I need the resultant trousers
to stay up without suspenders.
Simplicity 4923 is fall-front with a baggy seat and does not use
suspenders. It is taken from 'Cut of Men's Clothes' diagram XXII. The book
dates it ~1760-65, but it does meet the design requirements you have.
The construction of the upper part seems like it would do. I actually need
longer trousers, not breeches, but making this pair longer will be a
trivial alteration compared to turning a modern fly-front pattern into a
fall-front one.
Yes, I think it will do nicely. Thank you.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] RE:fall front trousers, etc
What you're looking for can easily be found in the following two or
three patterns, all by Kannik's Korner, historically accurate with excellent
engineering, historical and sewing notes, all of which we carry, and can be
viewed, and purchased, at: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/dept_17.html :
KK4303 Man's Trousers, 1790-1810
KK4304 Outer Breeches-Slops 1750-1820
KK4551 Men's double-breasted Short Jacket
Hope you find this of some assistance.
I was looking in an old Smoke and Fire catalog and must have missed this
trousers pattern. It's just what I was looking for. I can't use the slops
pattern, tho I have access to one thru another group I'm in, and the jacket
isn't quite what I had in mind. But the trousers are perfect.
Does Five Rivers Chapmanry have flat brass buttons? Jas. Townsend has nice
domed ones, but I don't know if they're quite right for 1812.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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[h-cost] fall front trousers, etc.
I'm looking for a pattern for fall front trousers suitable for 1812
American Naval wear. A shell jacket pattern would be good too, but I think
I can fake it.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] girdle? was:] Photos
Of course, there would still be art interpretation issues,
much as there are for miniatures (e.g., was this color chosen for its
symbolism? or because it was an easily available paint pigment? or because
people actually wore it?)
There's always a difference between dyestuff, for fabric, and paint
pigment. And what's good for one isn't necessarily good for the other.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Has anyone heard of the new fabric?
I found the link in a friend's blog - fabric made from corn. Really!
There are knitting yarns made of this already, and yarns made of milk. In,
I believe, the 1880s, the new fiber was one made of wood (Rayon).
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] girdle? was:] Photos
look at the photo called PDRM0061in the Chartres collection. Look at
the belt knot, then look just above the belt knot. There you will see
a repeating decorative pattern, that resembles trim, either woven or
embroidered. Now... notice that the trim appears to lie flat and
follow the curve of the body, lines above it run in the horizontal
direction, lines below it run vertically.
PDRM0062 shows the same trim-like decoration at the neck of the outermost
garment. I'm ready to stand corrected.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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RE: [h-cost] girdle? was:] Photos
In the Chartres it seems to stops under the bust
Some of the pleating on this one goes across the line which delineates the
lower edge of the bust. Look closely to find the exact pleats which do this.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] girdle? was:] Photos
Sculptors likely did not have live models posing for them as they chipped
away at the stone; even when they are being realistic, there was always
the challenge of representing what the fabric does in stone, a very
different medium.
At least they were closer to the real thing than we are. And, presumably,
they saw a real one at some point.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] girdle? was:] Photos
So my question, just for my knowledge, is there docs on the horizontal lines
on the bliaut ever being a separate piece from the garment?
SCA people sometimes make this as a separate garment, but that's partly
because of bad reproductions of the original image. The carving shows this
as part of a single garment. BTW, you can tell your friends that Nazi's
haven't been invented yet, so she can stop calling you one.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Ruff directions
The one I
need to make should replicate the ruff in the portrait
of Martin Frobisher found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Frobisher
Where's the portrait? I couldn't find it on the wiki page.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Ruff directions
Should be right on that page on the righthand side.
He's wearing a buttery tan outfit. If for some reason
it still doesn't come up you could try the Google
image search. It is the only full length portrait of
him.
With a gun in his hand, right? I've seen the portrait, but couldn't get to
it by the wiki page.
Conventional wisdom says to knife pleat the ruff material then like
cartridge pleat it to the neck band piece. This produces a mill wheel
ruff, like the ones in the 16th century and painted by folks like Reubens,
but does not produce a ruff like Frobisher wears.
The best example of Frobisher's kind of ruff is found in portraits of Mary,
Queen of Scots. In some of these you can see the same ruff from the side
as well as from straight on to the edge, since the shirt with the ruff on
it is worn open at the neck. These Mary portraits show the ruff material
gathered super-tightly at the inner edges and coaxed into the shape we
recognize at the outer edges. The inner edge of these ruffs is narrow, and
you can see this inner-edge narrowness in some other portraits showing
ruff-wearers. Compare this inner-edge narrowness with the inner-edge
thickness of the later ruffs and you'll see what I mean.
Compare also the way the artist paints the inside of the pleats of the
ruff. In the earlier ones the insides scrunch up to nothing, while in the
later ones the insides make flat vertical pleats.
Compare also the angle at which the two kinds of ruff sit relative to the
body, especially at the wrists. The mill-wheel kinds sit perpendicular
to their nearest body part, while the earlier ones sit at an angle to them.
Try the two methods out in sample pieces and compare them. Also remember
that these ruffs were held stiff as cardboard by the use of starch.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing
What do you say, a 15 inch waist:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/atv/player.html?catID=10clipID=7149
I dont like it, its two bizarre.
Can somebody send me this image? There's no way my computer can retrieve it.
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Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like?
Sailors of the Elizabethan period, based on period art wear loose
venetians or what willlater be called slops. Some are shown closed at
the bottom some are not. The upper body garments tend to be either
close fitting doublets, or a loose smock sort of jacket referred to in
the period as a cassock. The real obvious indicator of a sailor is the
cap. The most notable ones being thrummed caps. Thrummed caps look in
art like fur. They are made from strands of woll (thrum) being afixed
through the weave of kit caps, not unlike the modern watch cap.
Thrums are little bits of wool knotted together. If you knit this up, and
put all the knotted ends to the outside, it does look like fur.
Good art does exist out there. A number of Dutch maps shows mariner
figures as does the Mariner's Mirror. Actually the Dutch version and
the English version depict some different figures. I think it is just
after the period, but there are the woodcuts of the BArents expeditions
as well. Some art survivies depicting one of Frobisher's trips as
well. There is also the image depicted in Vecellios that was earlier
mentioned.
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Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italianchilds renaissance dress
You have said it! I use their edition of Braun and Schneider for lots of
picture references so I can leave the 19th C edition on the shelf.
Braun and Schneider is online, colorized, as is Tilke's ethnic costume
book. Google for either one.
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Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re: [h-cost] italian childs renaissance dress
I have a fashion print showing historical outfits for a fancy dress
(costume) ball in the 1880s. It's hilarious from a costumer's
viewpoint. Imagine Mary Queen of Scots with an 1880s shape. :-D Very funny.
I love that stuff. I have several of these cross-period historical prints,
plus a couple of books about it. Some day I'll make one, and show up at a
Gaskell in it, as tho it'd gotten the outfit from a long gone Victorian
theatre company.
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Re: [h-cost] Knitting Historians?
By the way, please excuse this question if it has been discussed. When
did crocheting come along? I was told long ago that it started after 1650
- Is this true? I've been trying to convince a few of my needlework
students that it is out of period for our group.
Something like 1830, last I heard. It seems to be an outgrowth of tambour,
which is chin stitch right thru fabric, very popular in the early 1800s.
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Re: [h-cost] Re: socks/stocking etc.
real period socks and stocking can be a challenge for those of us in
the reecacting world.Which is why I went to not-so-authentic, but
faster to produce cut from whole cloth stockings. The have that clock,
which is missing from so many commerically availble socks. I'm still
experimenting with differen fabrics for the stiffness factor. I have a
piece of wool jersey that has been washed and fulled up nicely, AND is a
bit stiffer. Do you know what the frequency is of stockings done in
wool, but not knitted (Just general is good...)
I'm not much of a knitter, but I have a book called Folk Socks, which has
every kind of heel I ever say, and several I never did before, all with
knitting instructions for them. (I haven't been following this thread, so
I don't know if this book has been mentioned.) It also has many kinds of
toe, also with instructions. These might go as far back as the early
1700s, or possibly the late late 1600s. I also have Mr. Rutts book on the
history of hand knitting, and that has lots of pictures of SCA-able knitted
pieces, including the socks Eleanor of Toledo was buried in, and a pair of
knitted Pluderhosen! (Really. They're amazing.)
CarolynKayta Barrows
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[h-cost] photo-decorated dress
I have now seen two photographs of dresses from, I'd say, the early- to
mid- 1890s, each decorated with photographs. The first photo I saw was
published in _American Album_ (SBN-01892-3-395), a paperback 1968
compilation of photographs by American Heritage. This photo is at the
bottom of page 9, and the wearer is standing next to a camera on a tripod
which bears a sign saying Felfer the Artist. The owner of the second
photo asked a friend of mine, both of whom wonder why the wearer did it,
and my friend asked me to post here about it.
My guess is that both dresses have to do with the wearer being a
photographer's assistant. My friend guesses that their photo might be of a
girl in a graduation dress, as the subject looks to be about the age of a
high-school senior. Any other opinions?
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[h-cost] Holiday/Secret Santa gifts
I didn't really get any costume-related holiday gifts. I got a lovely
little 1906 how-to book on book binding, including how to make all those
period-pattern marbleized papers. I'm also getting new glasses, which I'm
having put into frames that are much more period-looking than the ones I
have now. But nothing any more costume-related than that.
I got a mysterious envelope with many cancelled stamps, for my collection,
and two skeins of really interesting thread suitable for either doll hair
or for making small crochet pouches with. Was that the secret Santa gift
to me?
I did finally get the Secret Santa gift I owed mailed today, to someone in
Erie, PA, who says she likes non-usual SCA costumes. I hope she doesn't
have anything like this...
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[h-cost] ?Holiday/Secret Santa gifts
I didn't really get any costume-related holiday gifts. I got a lovely
little 1906 how-to book on book binding, including how to make all those
period-pattern marbleized papers. I'm also getting new glasses, which I'm
having put into frames that are much more period-looking than the ones I
have now. But nothing any more costume-related than that.
I got a mysterious envelope with many cancelled stamps, for my collection,
and two skeins of really interesting thread suitable for either doll hair
or for making small crochet pouches with. Was that the secret Santa gift
to me?
I did finally get the Secret Santa gift I owed mailed today, to someone in
Erie, PA, who says she likes non-usual SCA costumes. I hope she doesn't
have anything like this...
CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
www.FunStuft.com
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Re: [h-cost] RE: OT - Pin Cushion-how many needles have you lost?
My grandmother was a weaver, and said one mustn't make a pin cushion out
of fabric that includes sparkley silver threads.
But the fabric wasn't the problem! These had gotten driven so deep into
the cushion that you'd never know they were there! =-O
Her problem was that pinheads hid in the Mylar silver threads in the weave,
and needles similarly hid before they got lost inside.
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Re: [h-cost] OT - Pin Cushion
The toe is the flax that is thrown away from sheathing. Go to a period
farm for it.
Look for it called tow, as in tow-headed for a flaxen-haired blonde.
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Re: [h-cost] RE: OT - Pin Cushion-how many needles have you lost?
I took one of my pin cushions apart lately and found no less than 31
needles stuck insideI thought I had a needle eating monster (I know I
have a sock eating monster!), now I know where to look next time!
My grandmother was a weaver, and said one mustn't make a pin cushion out of
fabric that includes sparkley silver threads.
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Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmaker's dummy wearing?
It's that time of year: holiday parties, winter balls, company
dinners, New Years Eve, cocktail parties,12th Night, You might even be
planning a sojourn to a balmy tropical locale. Whatever the reason,
costumers are probably making something. So, what's your dressmaker's
dummy wearing today?
I'm storing a couple of hats on her right now, including my basic Harry
Potter's World hat. Other than that she's just wearing a t-shirt with the
bones of the human torso and hips printed on it. It belongs to her
actually. I used to take her to schools to put costumes on, for
historical talks, and the little kids would giggle when the clothes came
off. But they don't giggle when they see bones underneath. (It ain't no
sin to take off your skin and dance around in your bones.)
I forgot to mention that mine has a head I made out of a cut-down Styrofoam
wig head. I added a hollow neck of poster board, that fits over her
original neck, then I paper mache-ed over the whole head/neck thing. I can
take her head off so I can put clothes on her body, then I can replace it
so I can try out the head-wear with the clothes.
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Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmaker's dummy wearing?
It's that time of year: holiday parties, winter balls, company
dinners, New Years Eve, cocktail parties,12th Night, You might even be
planning a sojourn to a balmy tropical locale. Whatever the reason,
costumers are probably making something. So, what's your dressmaker's
dummy wearing today?
I'm storing a couple of hats on her right now, including my basic Harry
Potter's World hat. Other than that she's just wearing a t-shirt with the
bones of the human torso and hips printed on it. It belongs to her
actually. I used to take her to schools to put costumes on, for historical
talks, and the little kids would giggle when the clothes came off. But
they don't giggle when they see bones underneath. (It ain't no sin to take
off your skin and dance around in your bones.)
CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
www.FunStuft.com
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Re: [h-cost] early Knitting and crochet
were crochetted with a small bone needle.
Crochet cannot be done with any kind of needle. Sorry, but your source
must have been written by someone who doesn't know knit from crochet.
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Re: [h-cost] early Knitting and crochet
I've seen the term crochet needle in English-language 19th-century
crochet instructions, as a synonym for crochet hook.
were crochetted with a small bone needle.
Crochet cannot be done with any kind of needle. Sorry, but your source
must have been written by someone who doesn't know knit from crochet.
I didn't like how the source lumped knitting and crochet together under the
same name of implement and in the same phrase, hence my reaction. My guess
is that either the writer got his dates and techniques very wrong or that
the technique in question is actually naalbinding, which superficially
resembles both knitting and crochet and is done with a needle.
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Re: [h-cost] early Knitting and crochet
Sorry i misspelled your name, i ment off cause Carolyn.
No problem. I probably didn't even notice it was supposed to be me. I
usually go by Kayta, or Käthe.
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Re: [h-cost] early Knitting and crochet
Sorry, the source makes it obvious that they know knit from crochet.. and
that they make it clear that they are talking about two different
techniques. This is the NESAT (Northern European Society of Archaeological
Textiles). This is a peer reviewed scholarly journal... they are extremely
well versed in textiles.
Glad to know they know. It didn't sound like they knew, to me, from just
your snippet.
Crochet is generally considered a 19th century technique, but I have not
found anything creditable on it's early evolution... just speculation.
And there are no extant examples before then either, so it all has to be
speculation.
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Re: [h-cost] early Knitting and crochet
Yes, but crochet needles usually are very, very fine and pointy.
Please say hooks.
That's what they use for tambour work, because they need to pierece
through fabric. Not at all like like the ones we use for crocheting.
Yes, actually, the two tools are pretty much interchangeable. And many
early crochet hooks are built like tambour hooks, with a wood handle with
the metal bit stuck in the end.
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Re: [h-cost] Japanese clothes patterns
I'm trying to help a friend with his Japanese persona's costume. We
are needing to find patterns for these items: hakama, manchira, and
hitatare. If anyone could point us in the right direction it would be
greatly appreciated. Thanks!
If my memory is correct, Folkwear has some Japanese clothing patterns.
http://www.folkwear.com/asian.html
#112 Japanese Field Clothing
#113 Japanese Kimono
#129 Japanese Hapi Haori
#151 Japanese Hakama Kataginu
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Re: [h-cost] a holiday idea
Is there any interest among listmembers for a holiday gift exchange? I
envision it working something like this: folks sign up with their name,
address, and a 'favorite' (color, period, animal, technique). Each
participant receives the name of another participant and is then charged
with buying or making a small ($10 -ish) gift and sending it to that
person by Dec. 20th.
I'm willing to coordinate, of course. :)
Sure. I'm doing cloth-doll exchanges right now, and this could be fun too.
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December gift giving (was Re: [h-cost] a holiday idea
I like the idea, too, but it might be better off if it were left
themeless. Not all of us celebrate the holidays in the same way (or for
the same reasons), or even do the same kind of sewing.
Certainly there are many religious holidays in December, and different ways
of celebrating them. Some people connect their favorite December religious
holiday with the American commercial tradition of December gift giving, and
others don't. I happen to like giving/receiving gifts, and December is
when all my other friends do it, so that's the month I pick. But whatever
the month, the gifts I give are usually handmade or of a historical nature,
because I hand-make historical stuff anyway and because most of my
recipient-friends are into historical costuming.
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Re: [h-cost] a holiday idea
Would people choose names of recipients from the list or get randomly
drawn ones?
It would be randomly drawn.
Would we get some other info about the person so that it can kinda be a
get to know you thing also?
That's an option.
I'm open to suggestions. I'd like it to be fun for everyone who wants to
participate.
How about this:
Everyone who wants to participate sends a short paragraph about themselves
to Dawn, telling what periods they're into, what they're doing, and their
mailing address, BY A DEADLINE. When Dawn gets these e-mails, she mixes
them up and e-mails a different one back to everyone who sent one. (This
could simply be done by sending person one's info to person two, person
two's info to person three, etc., down the list.) Then every participant
has till mid-December to send their person their gift, based on the
paragraph or generically related to costuming.
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Medieval (was Re: [h-cost] a holliday idea
I would like to participate in this also, but wouldnt there be problems?
If i get someone who has interrest in medieval, i would not be much
helpfull, have never done any medieval and what then?
I rarely wear anything like the costumes you make. But I'd love to get
anything you did, whether it was my exact century or not.
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Re: [h-cost] Re: Rick Rack
Could someone explain what ric-rac is? It doesn't seem to be what I
understand. I have several cards of ric-rac braid I got in a sale, and
would use it to sew on to a garment for decoration. It was a very popular
trim in the mid 50's if I remember right - that's the 1950's! But ric-rac
involving crochet is a total mystery to me. Yet another example of two
countries separated by the same language?
Go here:
http://crochet.about.com/library/weekly/aa082600.htm
This article doesn't go back as far as the early 1800s, from where I saw my
earliest example of this stuff, but read it and learn what Fran wants to do
without crochet.
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Re: [h-cost] Re: Rick Rack
I don't remember it in either my facsimile of Mrs. Beeton, or Therese de
Dillmont.
Wave braid crocheted together is really big in the 1880s, after Mrs.
Beeton's and M. Dillmont's time. Start looking for it then.
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Re: [h-cost] Rickrack work
Does anyone know where I can get patterns or pattern booklets for rickrack
work that does not involve knitting or crochet, just sewing the rickwork
together in patterns? I've seen a few Victorian and Edwardian garments
that used it (the Victorians tended to call it wavy braid) but not
patterns that I can remember. I'm not looking for freebies, but if anyone
has the title of an antique or modern book, booklet, or magazine I'll hunt
it up and buy it.
All of what I've seen involves crochet. But I do own one printed sheet
from the Wright trim company, showing one how to make an early 1950s dress
entirely out of the stuff. You might ask them if they have a copy in their
archives (because I can't find mine).
BTW, I've always seen the stuff called wave braid, never wavy braid or
waved braid.
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Re: [h-cost] Rickrack work
All of what I've seen involves crochet. But I do own one printed sheet
from the Wright trim company, showing one how to make an early 1950s
dress entirely out of the stuff. You might ask them if they have a copy
in their archives (because I can't find mine).
I'll look into it, although I'd rather have Victorian/Edwardian
patterns. Big expanses of it sewn together in patterns can actually look
really nice.
BTW, I've always seen the stuff called wave braid, never wavy braid
or waved braid.
I've seen it called all three, as well as being classified under vaguer
terms like fancy braid.
Dover has a Home Art Crochet book in reprint, using wave braid and
crochet. You might look at that and try duplicating the work in
needle-lace stitches. I think crochet was the preferred method of
assembling these pieces, historically. And the screeches caused when
modern people realize they're looking at ric-rac is worth the effort ;)
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Re: [h-cost] Cranach dress
I'm doing some research on the german Cranach dress style. I would love
to hear thoughts, ideas, websites etc. for a. Bodice: attached or not,
There's one Cranach painting where the front edges of the dress don't quite
line up, as tho the front corners weren't attached to the skirt. But
there's another Cranach painting where someone like Lucretia is about to
stab herself, and the whole bodice seems to have peeled down to the waist.
b. is there a band of fabric from shoulder to shoulder at the back that is
edited out of most paintings (But is often seen in the German housebook
for example).
Not on a 'Cranach' dress; only on 'Durer' dresses.
c. closure in the side front?
Front, I think.
d. corset or no?
Whether or not there's an actual corset, there's some kind of body shaper
inside there.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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www.FunStuft.com
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Re: [h-cost] Re: Cranach Dress
As to straps across the back, I haven't seen a reason to do them, and I've
managed some pretty low-backed styles. The trick is to get the edge of the
shoulder piece to sit right in the av joint (that little hollow you can feel
on shoulder), and then the shoulders stay put.
The dresses in Albrecht Durer illustrations - the ones with the wide
U-shaped neckline - sometimes have straps across the back. Woodcuts show
them, but only on those dresses. I've never seen one on a Cranach dress.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] what would you do with 14 yards of wool?
No, ME!
Not that I need 14 yards of green wool.
Fight! Fight! Me too! I was going to say: oh, Dawn, it's just not you!
However, it is exactly me! G
I have such visions of a fabric scramble. lol
I haven't used up the wool I have from Pendleton yet, so I'm just watching
everyone else fight. But with a single 14-yard piece I could make an
entire wardrobe of Edwardian day and walking outfits, with mix and several
match jackets and a couple of skirts.
CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
www.FunStuft.com
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Re: [h-cost] Strange spinning question
Personally, I have never tried to collect byssal threads from mussels,
though here's an article showing how to work with
them. http://www.designboom.com/eng/education/byssus_howto.html
I don't necessarily believe all the stuff in that article, nor in the links
from it. For example, one quotes Herotidus as mentioning lace, and another
says that cloth of gold was really byssus fiber fabric.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Photo cross-stitch software
Does anyone know the name of some software that will take a photo and grid
it for cross-stitch? I know there are people who will do this if you mail
them the photo. But I wonder if they are doing this in some computer
software or by hand.
Yes. I found several, and I liked the HobbyWare one best
(http://www.hobbyware.com/). I downloaded a demo for free and played with
it for a few days - all of the programs I found let me do that. But the
HobbyWare one had more range of possibilities than the other ones did, and
fewer limitations on my own fiber-artsy requirements. It's the only
program I tried where I could save the things I did in demo mode (I saved
in .jpg format instead of in their proprietary format). I liked the
interface better even tho I will probably never use most of the things the
program does. It also cost more than the other ones I found did.
There's also a thing called something like Trans Graph X which will allow
you to do your own gridding manually. It's a set of different gauge grids
printed on Mylar, which you put onto your image and go from there. I've
had one of these since before I ever got a computer. It's great if you can
use it, and was really cheap to buy.
You might also check with your local cross-stitch/needlepoint store. The
owner of my local one says she has a favorite, and I suspect some of the
kits she sells are a product of that program.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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Re: [h-cost] Re: Xstitch software
It has to do with the resolution--the high the thread count the finer the
detail. Traditional Xstitch designs are rather 'crude' and blocky...the
modern patterns of angels etc are on a high count cloth and are rather
large...Think pixels and screen resolution--more is better! And yes it all
gets down to 1s and 0s VVBG
I saw a historical piece of needlepoint at somebody's house. It had three
sizes of stitches. Most of the piece was the size I would expect for
needlepoint. Some of the detail parts were half of that gage, and the
faces were one quarter of that gage. My guess is that they did most of the
work over four threads, some of it over like two threads, and the faces
over like one thread. This might be a solution for your fashion plate dilemma.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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www.FunStuft.com
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Re: 2RE: [h-cost] living history questions
Yes, seal the box! :-) While Laura Ashley dresses look old-timey or
traditional, they are from the late 1970s/early 80s. You could equate
them with other styles of that era. Also point out what makes the dress
Laura Ashley and not 1901.
Seal the box, and mark it something like Do not open till 2070 - when
contents will be antique.
My impression is that they are more of a little girl style than
grown-up. But you don't want to give the impression they're ok for
girls, either.
At this time we have no little girls, but you're right that our costume
guidelines should include children.
I'm sure you've looked at yourself (or others well-dressed) in 1901
dress and said Wow, that looks good! It's a matter of communicating
that enthusiasm to the other volunteers. If you find the posture
unattractive, it won't be as convincing.
The really extreme S-shaped curve is not only not flattering, it's bad for
the back and, more to the point, it's a few years after 1901. It's not the
silhouette I'm going for, it's the one which immediately follows it. In
1901 this curve was moderate, and in fact my own costume is based on the
S-shaped curve corset in Norah Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines. But,
going by Sears catalogs, non-S-shaped curve corsets were being sold in
1901. This, and the fact that said curve was accentuated by the cut of the
garments worn with it, will allow our women to look like 1901 without
hurting themselves. My point is that I may not be able to promote this by
use of the word 'flattering', regardless of the fact that c.1901 is about
my favorite historical period ever.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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1Re: [h-cost] living history questions
Also from a personal viewpoint, I enjoy some people who do first
person and interacting with them to some extent. But I have
experienced the sort who are overbearing, set on acting and treat
other interpretors as extras. (insulting, etc.) If that was going on
in the program, I would lose interest. Other people might enjoy that
kind of conflict.
Those of us in costume do first person. And the other volunteers at the
site, plus most of the Rangers, do what they always do, and can answer the
modern questions our characters can't (Where's the nearest ATM machine?).
Thinking in terms of being new to the group, I would be very annoyed
if I was told my (about to be made or purchased) things were ok, and
then told later that they were not. ESPECIALLY if someone knew all
along they were not right but did not say anything!
One time I got all my fabric approved and was halfway to finishing my dress
before I was told not only that one of my colors was wrong but that it had
never been approved in the first place (same person approved and then
objected). I had to drop out of the program because I couldn't afford to
change fabrics. I'm now in a position to make sure that this doesn't
happen to any of our people.
out. Also have you considered if someone decides to give or loan
their old, incorrect item to a new person in the group?
Most of our women's garments are from our stock, so this won't happen for them.
If you can't see
the difference when the person is dressed, how soon must it be
replaced?
If it really doesn't show, I'll probably never notice it (modern
underwear), and there's only so much looking I'm prepared to do. I'll only
notice if its lack (corset, petticoat) shows.
Shirts were what I was thinking of when I mentioned replacements occasioned
by wear. If someone is currently wearing one of our shirts which I think
it's not quite right, I will offer to replace it with a more acceptable one
when that one wears out. But I will offer to do neat mends on any
otherwise acceptable shirt, regardless of ownership, because I think neat
mends done in a period style make any costume shirt look more like a real
historical garment.
There will be people complaining about uniforms
and cookie cutter looks.
Starting with me. I know what I want for the women by general silhouette,
and will provide as many different examples of this as I can, to avoid
having us all looking as cookie cutter as our uniformed park rangers do.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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www.FunStuft.com
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2RE: [h-cost] living history questions
Always remember that this is a volunteer outfit!
Oh, you thought I was getting paid for this job? Only the park rangers get
paid at this site. The rest of us are doing it because we want to.
## Great idea! Cull out the rotten apples first! Perhaps there is another
historic site near you
that these items would be more appropriate for?
If these garments are any period, they're Laura Ashley - too cutesy-poo for
any real historical use.
## For those who are only occasional volunteers it is a good idea to have
some loaner stuff
available. It's impossible to try and have something for -every- body, but
you can make an attempt
anyway. Having the core people make their own stuff does go a long way
towards a feeling of
inclusion and ownership of the project.
This is the only program I've ever been in where the costumes were
provided. Everyplace else I've been you have to provide your own. So I'm
trying to downplay the provided aspect and encourage the ownership
one. This will make my job more difficult, but it should stretch our
budget much farther (assuming we still have a budget next year...). In
future I hope it's only the really new docents, or the drop-ins, who will
be wearing the loaners.
can, make a fabric swatch book.
Great idea. Thanx.
It wouldn't hurt to also list some of the don't go there stuff, and why
it's off-limits.
I hesitate to tell a real newbie what she or he mustn't do, for fear
they'll do it. But I guess I can take a picture of the worst of the don't
go there garments, for an example of what to avoid.
As far as having sewing sessions, this is a wonderful thing! Are there any
young ladies who would
like to join in? (This is a great way for older Girl Scouts to get all
kinds of service badges).
I wish I knew some Girl Scouts. Mostly the program's historian and I will
be sewing mens' shirts. Then I will be doing smaller sessions with any new
volunteer who wants to make her own costume.
CarolynKayta Barrows
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www.FunStuft.com
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Re: 2RE: [h-cost] living history questions
I hesitate to tell a real newbie what she or he mustn't do, for fear
they'll do it. But I guess I can take a picture of the worst of the
don't go there garments, for an example of what to avoid.
They will do it why - because they have been advised not to, or
because they see it and miss where you say don't?
In that case, a bit more explanation might help. Have the pictures
of the worst and ten minutes worth of WHY.
I guess I'm paranoid about docents wanting to do a cutesy Laura Ashley
look. I've seen too much of that on docents at sites around here (tho
never from re-enactors) and in fact I volunteered to be the costume person
here in hopes of preventing this very thing. But, to give credit where
it's due, all the other female characters in the program (of which I am one
third of those who remain), either wore corsets or achieved a corseted look
somehow. And a real costumer made all our stock of dresses but that awful
one.
The worst of the costumes we have in stock are ones which were donated by
well meaning individuals who thought they looked right. And since we're a
historical museum it will be almost impossible to de-acquisition (= get rid
of) these pieces. But I am now in a position where I can put them all into
a box and seal it, and refuse to issue them to anyone. And I guess I could
put someone into the bad example dress, photograph it, and use the image to
hold down the zero end of the scale of one to ten where ten is our perfect
ideal.
I don't know your era, but for Rev War we would say this is a
gathered circle cap. You see it on reenactors, in theme restuarants,
etc, but it did not exist in the actual 18thC. The earliest we know
it was worn was 1888. Meanwhile here are some pattern sources for
appropriate caps. There are several choices and people tend to find
them more flattering than the gathered circle.
Nice wording. I'll have to remember that, subject only to the conditions
mentioned below.
I'm guessing there are some typical errors/misconceptions about your
site. Especialy emphasize how the right way is more attractive. :-)
We do 1901. There is a posture shown in many contemporary illustrations
where the bust is pushed forward and the butt is pushed backward, such that
a standing woman is bent into an S-shaped curve (think Gibson Girl). I can
hardly present this un-natural, but historically correct, posture as
flattering. (It's really hard on the back too - I've tried it.) But many
dated contemporary photographs show women not exhibiting this posture. So
I'm going to have to be careful playing the flattering card here. And
the silhouette I present as the one to copy will have to be taken from the
moderate end of what was done in our period.
CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
www.FunStuft.com
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Re: 2RE: [h-cost] living history questions
We do 1901. There is a posture shown in many contemporary illustrations
where the bust is pushed forward and the butt is pushed backward, such
that a standing woman is bent into an S-shaped curve (think Gibson
Girl). I can hardly present this un-natural, but historically correct,
posture as flattering. (It's really hard on the back too - I've tried
it.) But many dated contemporary photographs show women not exhibiting
this posture. So I'm going to have to be careful playing the
flattering card here. And the silhouette I present as the one to copy
will have to be taken from the moderate end of what was done in our period.
But isn't much (or even most) of that look an optical illusion rather than
actual physical posture? Lots of floof in the front and a pad for the
buttocks should give that look.
Fashionable contemporary corsets were cut to make the body do that. (Norah
Waugh's book Corsets and Crinolines has the pattern I used for
mine.) The front floof, and not pads but the cut of the skirt in back,
accentuated this look. But throughout the period of this corset shape, the
earlier non-S-shape corsets were available, at least according to Sears
catalogs. So I'm not insisting that any of our living history women do
that to themselves, since something similar can be accomplished by a little
front floof and contemporary skirt cutting.
CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
www.FunStuft.com
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[h-cost] living history questions
There has been a change in the leadership of a living history program I am
in. The new person in charge wants revive the program, which has almost
become depopulated, and to make us look and act like a real living history
program. I am assuming that a higher standard of authenticity in costuming
will help both to attract new people and to improve things generally, but
I'm a costumer.
My questions:
What do you look for in a living history program you're considering
joining? What, besides the fact that it's a time period you're interested
in, would attract you to such a program and, time permitting, make you want
to come play?
The new person in charge has specified two levels of participation, one
full-time and one part-time. We will have a core of regulars, and room for
drop-ins who don't have the time nor the inclination to make a full-time
commitment. And he's allowing for days core people have to miss.
How authentic to the period should the costumes be at first? We have
several male characters who are wearing OK-looking generic working class
clothing from our period, and about three women in garments that are about
right for the year we've chosen (1901). Should we go easy on the
authenticity at first, and try to raise the standards later, or should we
change to the higher standards now, and try to raise the few older members
up to them?
What is the best way to tell people who have been doing the program since
it began, but whose standards of authentic costuming are not what the new
person in charge wants them to be, that they have to meet higher standards
now - if the new person in charge hasn't been in the program as long as
they have? The same question goes for me, the new costume mistress for the
program. My own solution would be to ask that when an objectionable
garment wears out it should be replaced by a better one. But I'm a
volunteer, as are all the participants, so the question becomes a delicate
one to ask.
Which 'cheats' are considered acceptable and which are not? Some of the
male characters are played by women with long hair, and they have always
braided it and let it hang down their backs. By 1901 pigtails were out of
use by working class men, even sailors. Should we insist that these women,
who aren't going to extremes to fool anyone but who do act like guys, do
something about the hair and obvious female anatomy? (BTW, the program's
female characters have always worn corsets, or at least looked like they were.)
I have just begun an inventory of the stock of costumes this program has,
and have compiled a list of over my dead body items I don't ever want to
see used in a program I'm costume mistress of. There's also a soft list of
things, like some of the mens' shirts, which read more like the 1850s than
like 1901, which I'd like to phase out or, if currently not in use, to not
issue to anyone.
The new person in charge also wants a list of costumes we need in
stock. I'm currently talking to him about getting participants to make
their own costumes, to save program budget money we no longer have. I have
rashly volunteered to help all participants do this (and the program's
historian has already roped me into a two-person shirt-sewing session with
her).
CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
www.FunStuft.com
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