Re: [h-cost] Wedding wear

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Who follows these antiquated guidelines? And the insults they portray?! The 
Dream may be the bride's but the occasion is also with expectations of 
celebration for the mother's who get to be Themselves. Harmony and affinity for 
the occasion seems to me to allow whatever one chooses. For daughter 31, I wore 
a teal hand embroidered sundress with matching bolero jacket; my daughter was 
wearing an antique eyelet gown (1879) .It was a farm garden occasion.
My other daughter chose  a  princess tea-length dress of white cotton 
shantung..with jacket; The neckline and sleeve edgings were embroidered..white 
on white. Her site was a Friend'd Meeting House. Both mothers did wear varities 
of Beige after noon dresses. Harmonious  for the occasion.
La! _
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com  on behalf of 
scourney 
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 10:47 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wedding wear

I thought that was the comment for the mother of the groom - show up, shut up, 
and wear beige. I'm a rapidly greying blonde with pale skin, and in beige I'd 
be almost invisible. Which perhaps is the point.Susan

 Original message 
From: annbw...@aol.com
Date: 01/27/2016  6:15 AM  (GMT-08:00)
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wedding wear

The mother of the bride wears beige and keeps quiet. But I would think another 
color would be more fun.


Ann Wass



-Original Message-----
From: R Lloyd Mitchell 
To: Historical Costume 
Sent: Wed, Jan 27, 2016 9:12 am
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wedding wear

Was at a 20s/30s wedding in June past...The 'other women' of the wedding party 
all wore shades of beige silk and lace...including mothers and grandmother.  
The BMs had different styles (kneeish) Quite a lovely affair.

From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com  on behalf of 
Susan 
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 3:09 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wedding wear

Lace perhaps, but Not Beige.  Leaning toward a 30s formal inspired dress.

Susan
- Original Message -
From: 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wedding wear


> NOT beige lace!
>
> Ann Wass
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Deb Salisbury, Mantua-Maker 
> To: h-costume 
> Sent: Mon, Jan 25, 2016 8:17 pm
> Subject: [h-cost] Wedding wear
>
> I'm no help, either. The last wedding I went to, here in Texas, everyone
> but the bride came in jeans and cowboy boots. :-)
>
> I'd love to go to a wedding in a bustle dress!
>
>> My son is getting married next month in LA, and I have no idea what to
>> make to wear to an afternoon wedding, with an evening reception. He
>> wasn't much help (wear a bustle dress he said...  she said, whatever.)
>
> Happy sewing,
>    Deb Salisbury
>    The Mantua-Maker
>    Quality Historical Sewing Patterns
>    www.mantua-maker.com
>
> New Nonfiction:
>    The Art of the Mantua-Maker: 1870 - 1879
>    Fashion, Sewing, and Clothes Care Advice
>  https://mantua-maker.com/1870s_Dressmaking_Book.html
>
> New Fantasy Novel:
> Sorcery's Child: The Mindbender's Rise #2
>    http://www.djsalisburybooks.com/sorcery-s-child.html
>
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Re: [h-cost] Wedding wear

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Was at a 20s/30s wedding in June past...The 'other women' of the wedding party 
all wore shades of beige silk and lace...including mothers and grandmother.  
The BMs had different styles (kneeish) Quite a lovely affair.

From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com  on behalf of 
Susan 
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 3:09 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wedding wear

Lace perhaps, but Not Beige.  Leaning toward a 30s formal inspired dress.

Susan
- Original Message -
From: 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wedding wear


> NOT beige lace!
>
> Ann Wass
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Deb Salisbury, Mantua-Maker 
> To: h-costume 
> Sent: Mon, Jan 25, 2016 8:17 pm
> Subject: [h-cost] Wedding wear
>
> I'm no help, either. The last wedding I went to, here in Texas, everyone
> but the bride came in jeans and cowboy boots. :-)
>
> I'd love to go to a wedding in a bustle dress!
>
>> My son is getting married next month in LA, and I have no idea what to
>> make to wear to an afternoon wedding, with an evening reception. He
>> wasn't much help (wear a bustle dress he said...  she said, whatever.)
>
> Happy sewing,
>Deb Salisbury
>The Mantua-Maker
>Quality Historical Sewing Patterns
>www.mantua-maker.com
>
> New Nonfiction:
>The Art of the Mantua-Maker: 1870 - 1879
>Fashion, Sewing, and Clothes Care Advice
>  https://mantua-maker.com/1870s_Dressmaking_Book.html
>
> New Fantasy Novel:
>Sorcery's Child: The Mindbender's Rise #2
>http://www.djsalisburybooks.com/sorcery-s-child.html
>
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> h-costume mailing list
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Re: [h-cost] What's your dummy wearing this season?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Devious mind, are ther literary referances to curtains being made from Garments?

From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com  on behalf of 
Lavolta Press 
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 1:16 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dummy wearing this season?

Mine is wearing hand-knotted lace drapes for the kitchen. They used to
be hand-knotted lace tablecloths.

Fran
Lavolta Press
www.lavoltapress.com

On 1/14/2016 8:56 AM, annbw...@aol.com wrote:
> My mannequin is wearing a partially completed shift that was a massive fail. 
> I have to re-think the whole thing, so there it hangs.
>
>
> Ann Wass
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: R Lloyd Mitchell 
> To: Historical Costume 
> Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2016 10:37 am
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dummy wearing this season?
>
> One mannequin is holding a robe for Queen Anne, hems and trim are waiting 
> patiently,
> Queen Maud is fitfully pacing about because her coronation gown is still 
> without the sleeve lace she has chosen and it  has not arrived yet. Her white 
> morning robes are constantly being donned and cast aside. I fear they will be 
> dusty before the package has arrived!
>
> We have a new client, (Mrs Jack Gardner) Isabella. She has been asked to sit 
> for Mr Sargent and has decided nothing in the closet will do. Measurements 
> have been taken and a lovely bolt of black silk velvet chosen. The patterns 
> are being drafted with the help of friend Miss Grimble. Mona is looking 
> wildly about for pearls We may have to get them matched and restrung as they 
> are to adorn the waist. Wish us God-speed as we have heard that she is Very 
> particular) (Truth be told, after our exploits with Q.Maud, I think we should 
> feel quite practiced in completing this project!!)
> 
> From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com  on behalf of 
> michaela de bruce 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 6:18 PM
> To: Historical Costume
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dummy wearing this season?
>
> I have a display mannequin in the lounge, but she is naked, she is mainly
> holding a sci-fi alien headpiece up to prevent it deforming. So I'm going
> to put that on once I finish typing :)
>
> My dressform is loaned out to a friend, and the one I have borrowed in
> replacement is also naked while I tidy my art space. I have just restored
> my sewing/ironing desk top so I can actually start working again :) I have
> a new removeable cover to finish sewing as well. Then I can iron huge
> applique pieces again.
>
> As for current projects:
> Finally finishing my c1600 Spanish gown, stage one anyway. I decided I
> probably won't have enough trim for the doublet and the galerilla as I
> thought so doublet is a higher priority. It means all new stays, finishing
> the underlayers and tracking down lace of a suitable size.
> While doing this I have documentation to write up, which means a fair
> amount of scanning so, ugh. Got that to look forward to.
>
> I also have an Elsa spring gown to make (Frozen Fever) as the ice gown
> sleeves can get a little warm at big children's events :)
>
> Michaela
> --
> http://arrayedindreams.com
> https://instagram.com/i.chimaera/
> https://www.facebook.com/mdb.i.chimaera
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Re: [h-cost] What's your dummy wearing this season?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

One mannequin is holding a robe for Queen Anne, hems and trim are waiting 
patiently,
Queen Maud is fitfully pacing about because her coronation gown is still 
without the sleeve lace she has chosen and it  has not arrived yet. Her white 
morning robes are constantly being donned and cast aside. I fear they will be 
dusty before the package has arrived!

We have a new client, (Mrs Jack Gardner) Isabella. She has been asked to sit 
for Mr Sargent and has decided nothing in the closet will do. Measurements have 
been taken and a lovely bolt of black silk velvet chosen. The patterns are 
being drafted with the help of friend Miss Grimble. Mona is looking wildly 
about for pearls We may have to get them matched and restrung as they are to 
adorn the waist. Wish us God-speed as we have heard that she is Very 
particular) (Truth be told, after our exploits with Q.Maud, I think we should 
feel quite practiced in completing this project!!)

From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com  on behalf of 
michaela de bruce 
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 6:18 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dummy wearing this season?

I have a display mannequin in the lounge, but she is naked, she is mainly
holding a sci-fi alien headpiece up to prevent it deforming. So I'm going
to put that on once I finish typing :)

My dressform is loaned out to a friend, and the one I have borrowed in
replacement is also naked while I tidy my art space. I have just restored
my sewing/ironing desk top so I can actually start working again :) I have
a new removeable cover to finish sewing as well. Then I can iron huge
applique pieces again.

As for current projects:
Finally finishing my c1600 Spanish gown, stage one anyway. I decided I
probably won't have enough trim for the doublet and the galerilla as I
thought so doublet is a higher priority. It means all new stays, finishing
the underlayers and tracking down lace of a suitable size.
While doing this I have documentation to write up, which means a fair
amount of scanning so, ugh. Got that to look forward to.

I also have an Elsa spring gown to make (Frozen Fever) as the ice gown
sleeves can get a little warm at big children's events :)

Michaela
--
http://arrayedindreams.com
https://instagram.com/i.chimaera/
https://www.facebook.com/mdb.i.chimaera
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Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Also a good read is "Seeing Through Clothes" (Anne Hollander) Another gem is 
"How Fashion Invades the Stage" (maud Powell, 1908)

From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com  on behalf of 
Catherine Olanich Raymond 
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 12:07 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

It's a great book.  Every historical costumer who loves movies should
own a copy.

On 01/06/2016 12:00 PM, Viv Watkins wrote:
> There is a fascinating book - "Hollywood and History - Costume Design in
> Film"  which looks how costume designers present historical dress.   It
> was published in 1988 to accompany an exhibition mounted at the Los
> Angeles County Museum of Art.  Part of the foreword says "Contemporary
> viewers are not aware that the costumes reflect their own standards of
> style and beauty - that the cave-dwellers' costumes are cut to emphasise
> the 1940's silhouette, that the antebellum dresses are made with 1930's
> bias-cut fabrics.  It is only with the passage of time that one can see
> clearly how all-pervasive the designer's contemporary aesthetics have
> been." It is one of my favourite costume books, it has given me an extra
> layer of fun when I watch the wonderful old movies.
>


--
Catherine Olanich Raymond
ca...@thyrsus.com
(610) 805-9542

"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn."
Benjamin Franklin


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Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Re the styles of dresses, I still have to chuckle at the 18th C interpretions 
in films of the '20s-30s where the gowns have dropped waists.  In an earlier 
production of W&P the fashion tone is Audrey Hepburn all the way. It seems that 
one can peg the date of the film release by the tweaked styles that give a nod 
to contemporary fashion. Other interesting film studies are the costumes for 
Victoria and Albert and Dr Zhivago.The latter spawned a popular contemporary 
Fashion..the Maxie dress line.

behalf of Katy Bishop 
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 9:53 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

I don't see it as snarking either, the costume stills I've seen look
particularly bad, especially for what one is used to seeing for BBC period
productions. But the one shoulder evening dress, so odd, looks so modern
and harsh, good for a ballroom dance performance.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 4:18 AM, Kate Bunting  wrote:

> I wasn't snarking, merely asking for information. I thought the bare
> shoulders were wrong for the period, even as "extreme" fashion, and wanted
> to confirm my opinion.
>
> Kate Bunting
>
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 9:50 PM, Lavolta Press 
> wrote:
>
> > Oh sure, I just don't understand why some people think it's so much fun
> to
> > get together and tear someone down. Which is really what's happening in a
> > lot of those discussions. Some feel snarking is off limits with people
> they
> > know, but the movie/TV industry is fair game.
> >
> > Fran
> >
> >
> >
> > On 1/5/2016 1:14 PM, annbw...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> If we all liked the same thing, there would only be vanilla ice cream,
> as
> >> they say.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ann Wass
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Lavolta Press 
> >> To: Historical Costume 
> >> Sent: Tue, Jan 5, 2016 2:17 pm
> >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"
> >>
> >> I gave up on snarking at movie costumes many years ago.  Movies are
> >> fiction. They are not documentaries, they are not meant to be
> >> educational, and they are not made primarily for viewing by historic
> >> reenactors. In many, much of the history itself is, at best,
> speculation.
> >>
> >> I don't watch movies for the costumes. I watch them to see whether it's
> >> good drama and looking for things to criticize just spoils the drama.
> >> When I want solid information I look elsewhere. And really, some of the
> >> Facebook discussions sound just like catty little junior-high girls
> >> gleefully tearing down each other's clothes.
> >>
> >> Fran
> >> Lavolta Press
> >> www.lavoltapress.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/5/2016 2:59 AM, annbw...@aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> Some of my Facebook friends are following. No one shoulder bare, or
> >>> many, many, other things. I know it's theater, but even allowing for
> that,
> >>> seems very weird. My opinion is, even though it is a story, it is
> based so
> >>> firmly in a historical time and place, it seems downright strange to
> go off
> >>> on such flights of fancy. Wonder if there will be a "making of"
> wherein it
> >>> is explained?
> >>>
> >>> Ann Wass
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
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> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
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>



--
Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
katybisho...@gmail.comwww.VintageVictorian.com
 Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
  Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.
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Re: [h-cost] What's your dummy wearing this season?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Bygonne has been wearing a long sleeved tunic fashioned from two pashmina 
shawls. It is a sure thing for instant dressup for 2016! Currently on the 
ironing board is a sweet mini dress for my grandaughter. Found a piece of kelly 
green eyelash that should suit this 13 year old fashionesta!
 Of historical fashion note" Queen Maud's dress form is wearing her Coronation 
Gown. It took me about 5 years to find the fabric. She isn't very patient nor 
obliging; I finally made a dress form for her (alas, not to be called 
TheDummy)because she had a serious problem with scheduling Fittings...

From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com  on behalf of 
Magge Genie 
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 2:03 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dummy wearing this season?

Mine would be wearing a hand-sewn man's Viking tunic and a woman's Viking coif. 
I'm doing some detailed embroidery on the coif for a friend who has had breast 
cancer this year.

Magge/Genie

> On Dec 18, 2015, at 12:08 AM, Marjorie Wilser  wrote:
>
> Mine— alas, still stored. I miss her.
>
> However, were she out to play, she’d have her choice of several large hand 
> knit lace shawls. I have spent a lot of enjoyable time knitting lace the last 
> few years. It has distracted me from doing a lot of sewing.
>
> Since SCA-period groups are my only local choice I dabble occasionally there, 
> but not enough to warrant new clothes as yet. Since my Elizabethans are not 
> so comfy for many events I am working on hand-sewing a linen dress of the 
> t-tunic persuasion with wide gores in the skirt.
>
> Then I sewed a set of gores in, inside-out. The project is currently on hold. 
> Those seams were tight! :)
>
> ==Marjorie Wilser
>
> @..@   @..@   @..@
> Three Toad Press
> http://3toad.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [h-cost] 1918 Vionnet Gown

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

away from my library and inventory of patterns; do you "do" pinterest and might 
be able to pick out the look you seem to want...

From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com  on behalf of 
RobinandKelly Dorman 
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 6:29 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] 1918 Vionnet Gown

I am attempting to recreate the Vionnet dress on page 68 of Patterns of Fashion 
2. It's a rather special project, for a friend currently undergoing chemo to 
wear at an Edwardian event later this fall - it is not confining, does not 
require a corset and would be appropriate to wear with turban to hide hair 
loss. I will be making myself something similar so she doesn't feel like the 
only person in avant garde clothing.I'm hoping someone on the list has 
experience with this dress and can offer any tips or shortcuts - for instance, 
is the pattern available full size anywhere? Or is there a pattern that could 
be adapted?Thanks in advance!Kelly
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Re: [h-cost] buckram hat forms

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Google search turned up some on Etsy...I often have luck using old/ new 
straws..re purposed, if they can be cut and covered.

From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com  on behalf of 
Hope Greenberg 
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 9:58 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: [h-cost] buckram hat forms

I'm looking for a buckram hat form for an early 19th cent
(Federal/Empire/Regency) bonnet. No time to make one. I found some on
Timely Tresses but I could have sworn I had seen others. Any leads?

- Hope


hope.greenb...@uvm.edu, University of Vermont
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Re: [h-cost] 1880s hair-styling terms: crimps and "fedoras"

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Interesting topic. Check out the photos of Bernhardt available to see first 
hand what variations of crimping might have meant in the 19th century. Some of 
the pics are theatrical and some are contemporary views of how the style was 
interpreted and worn on the street or the drawing room.
SB as Fedora presents a hat style that was very feminine and to my mind does 
not approach the fedora that we can see in the early 20th C and on.Perhaps your 
use of fedoras would better describe net boudoir nets that would partly protect 
the hair while sleeping.
Crimped hair  was used to describe one feature (bangs) that was often referred 
to as "the Lunatic fringe". After about the age of 15, a big event was getting 
to put one's hair Up (mentioned in a James Barrie play) and thereafter, long 
unkempt hair, crimped or no, was suitable only in the boudoir.Even the style 
called "the Waterfall" had more formal arrangement and was often augmented with 
extensions (modern equivalent). (Prom and wedding 'do's' of the 1950s-80s) 
.
Rag curls, or paper curls were also made with skinny leather tubes in casing 
wire. The hair was wrapped and kept firm by looping. (I have a handful of these 
in my hair-care stash)Wet-to-dry method.
Kathleen Mitchell 
.   

From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com  on behalf of 
Megan McHugh 
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 6:03 AM
To: Costume Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1880s hair-styling terms: crimps and "fedoras"

No historical knowledge here of hairstyles, but we used to "crimp" our hair 
without heat by braiding it into many small braids while wet, and taking down 
the braids when dry.  Not sure if it was done historically, but it was easy to 
do, and I was a bit surprised to not see this method of crimping mentioned in 
the various videos people have posted.   Is crimping with braiding a modern 
invention?
Curious.
-Megan

On Jul 9, 2014, at 10:00 PM, Elena House  wrote:

> I'm writing a novella set in 1887 with three teenage girls as the main
> characters, and as a result I've been doing research into the slang & pop
> culture and so forth of the time period in New England.  The 1880s are Not
> My Era, and I've run across a term-and-a-half that confuse me.
>
> Here's the passage, from "The Familiar Letters of Peppermint Perkins", with
> the terms and phrases ***starred***.
>
> --
> I did begin that very night by not ***doing up any crimps.***  I was going
> to wear my hair like Clara's.  She never wears any crimps.  Runover girls
> never do, though they have never advanced any sufficiently good reason to
> me for not crimping it, for they all look like old fuds with it so, and
> they spend just as much and more time brushing and smoothing it ***at night
> than I do on my "Fedoras."***
>
> Well, I was going to say I didn't do up any; but about three o'clock I woke
> up and remembered that I had promised to go skating with Charlie Brood out
> to Jamaica the next morning, and I knew any amount of self-improvement
> wouldn't make up for the absence of crimps in his eyes, so I just snaked
> out of bed and ***up with two "Fedoras;"*** but no sooner had I got them up
> than my conscience began to reproach me for my weakness, and after I got
> back into bed I determined that even Charlie Brood's criticisms shouldn't
> influence me, and I began to take them down; but you see I was so sleepy,
> getting up so suddenly (it all was like a dream), that I only got one down
> before I dropped to sleep, and the next morning you ought to have seen what
> a fright I looked.  You know how high my forehead is, and shiny.  Well,
> there I was with all that shining expanse and ***one little bob on the left
> temple***, and I overslept on account of getting up so, and was late, and
> before I could do anything Charlie Brood was after me.
> --
>
> The crimps part I only find partially confusing; I'm familiar with crimping
> as something one does to curl one's hair with hot irons, but not as an
> overnight treatment.  Is this a reference to putting one's hair in rags?
> Leaving it in braids overnight for braid curls?  Something with hairpins?
> Or...?
>
> The one that really confuses me, though, is the "Fedoras."  What on earth
> are these?  The context makes it seem pretty clear that this is either
> another method of creating curls overnight or another name for overnight
> crimps, but what is the actual method, and what does the result look like?
> Or, does the name perhaps refer to the location of the resulting curls,
> rather than the method?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> -E House
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Re: [h-cost] Period Hair, and Accessories

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

An interesting Costume item from the OED, Costume is the whole experience of 
mind and body...Appearance is only a small part of being 'in costume'. The way 
you stand, walk, sit, what you are thinking about...all this is necessary to 
pull yourself backward to Be in the times of your dress! Hair, nails, shoes, 
hatted or not, props...all is necessary to be truely in Costume!


From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of 
Simone Bryan [cil...@dracolore.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 2:34 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Period Hair, and Accessories

Yes one of my pet peeves is hair coverings, it is like a last thought but
it really is essential to get the proper look. Then there are the correct
or as close as you can get accessories that gives another note to the
whole.  I cosider an outfit like a good perfume, it has lots of notes as to
bring forth a worthy scent.  So the entire look does not stop at the gown
and underpinnings, although they are a good or great base.


Cilean
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Re: [h-cost] Stumped

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

The Regency Fashion Plates series by Foster and Perry presents several views of 
short sleeve over long sleeves...reprints of Ackermans, la belle Assemblee and 
such
And I think I saw this style in Hunniford's Period Fashion as a variation of 
sleeves.
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of 
Hope Greenberg [h...@uvm.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 10:25 PM
To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Stumped

Here's a request:

The dilemma: I making a garden variety early 19th century bib/apron
dress of a cotton print. Of course, I have too little fabric so instead
of a long sleeve I decided to do a short sleeve with a detachable
undersleeve in white cotton voile. I went flipping through my collection
of hundreds of images looking for an example. (Note, this is an 1812 or
thereabouts gown, not the turn of the century type where a colored
bodice and white sleeve is common, nor the Princess Charlotte "russian"
dress that looks like our American jumper.) Lo and behold I cannot find
an image of this combination. This, the staple of all JA films! Lots of
short sleeves with long gloves, lots of short sleeves over undersleeves
of the same fabric. Does anyone have an actual documented example?

Thanks!

- Hope
hope.greenb...@uvm.edu
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Re: [h-cost] Wedding in 1882

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I have three wedding gowns of this period, 1879-1884; two have confirmed dates. 
All are two pieced. One is embroidered net, one of silk striped (2"satin)shear. 
The third (1879) is all cotton batiste with copious eyelet trim (worn by my 
daughter for her 1994 wedding). All have 3/4 sleeves. The first two feature 
modified basque bodices with fullness in the back; the skirts are of 3 panels 
with the extra fullness center back...as Fran has described. The cotton gown is 
designed to have the bodice edge tucked beneath the waistband. The skirt has a 
polonaise that suggests 'bustle'; the shaped waist sash accentuates this 
detail. The richness of this gown is proclaimed by the generous use of 
lace...the ruffles edging the skirts are all underlaid with 5" val lace,also 
ruffled! The skirt lengths are all placed at the ankle.  


From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of 
Lavolta Press [f...@lavoltapress.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 11:18 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wedding in 1882

Early in 1882 she was probably wearing a dress with only a small bustle
(the "natural form" era), though late in 1882 it would have been a
larger bustle.  She had on either a polonaise (long tunic) over a skirt,
or a bodice/overskirt/skirt ensemble.  Either the polonaise or the
overskirt likely provided the back drapery.  Her dress probably had a
high day neckline and 3/4 or full length sleeves, but might well have
had detachable parts (a front gilet, and lower sleeves) to turn it into
a lower-necked, shorter-sleeved evening dress, especially if it was an
expensive dress.  Wedding dresses were often worn as evening dresses
after the wedding, if the bride expected to attend many social events.
Other than that, there's not enough detail to go on.  The dress was
likely off-white, but might have been colored, if it were to be used
later as a day dress by a bride who did not expect to attend many
evening events.

As for the mother-in-law, a shiny fabric (satin) and glittering jewels
(diamonds) were not mourning.

You might be interested in my book Fashions of the Gilded Age, which
contains patterns, images, and descriptions of wedding dresses in Volume 2.

Fran
Lavolta Press
www.lavoltapress.com


On 6/19/2013 7:38 PM, Cathy Raitt wrote:
>   On a recent trip "home" I found a letter written by my great grandmother to 
> her sister describing her daughter's wedding, which I have been trying to 
> transcribe.   The wedding took place at home and the bride's attire was 
> described as a "simple costume."Her veil was described, but not the dress 
> itself.  This is what I've been able to figure out so far.  (Some of the 
> words might not be exactly right - I'm still deciphering the handwriting!)
>
>
>
> "The pure white  ---   veiling(?) trimmedwith many rows of lace and with 
> drapery of white watered ribbon at the back was very pretty.  The veil a 
> large square of tulle fell a little over her face and was caught on one side 
> of the head by a cluster of natural white roses.  Anotherbunch at the left 
> side of the neck among the laces and a third larger upon the skirts holding 
> the veils back a little. Black stockings & slippers and long white gloves 
> made up the t ensemble. The only ornaments  were a beautiful Silver comb 
> & earrings sent her by Cousin..."
>
>
>
> What would this dress have looked like?  We haven't been able to find any 
> pictures that could be this gown.
>
>
>
> She comments that the groom's mother looked  "uncommonly well in black satin 
> & lace. Some beautiful diamonds at her throat."  Was it normal to wear black 
> to a wedding?  How long would someone wear mourning for a son?  (The groom's 
> brother had died in 1875.)
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Cathy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>

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Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Amelia Bloomer gets the credit, but she and her  sister and other friends were 
not the first to make the bifurcated scene . There were several religious 
groups who tried a fashion reform as a peculiar identity for their sect as well 
as diversity clothing. Robert Owen with his group at New Harmony in Indiana was 
one of these. Also the Graham group wore bifurcated garments as a hygienic 
improvement. I am remembering that this was probably the origin that the Seneca 
ladies chose. Lucy Stone wore it for a while but when the costume was getting 
more attention than the message(Women's Rights), she felt bound to put it 
aside.  


From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of R 
Lloyd Mitchell [rmitch...@washjeff.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:40 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants

No one seems to have mentioned bifurcated garments...19th C. review and 
philosophy of women wearing male garments...including Bible Quotations...Lots 
of interesting examples there!




From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of 
Rickard, Patty [ricka...@mountunion.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:30 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants

I guess I should read all the posts before replying  - fun memories.
Patty

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of Rickard, Patty
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:06 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants

And let's not forget clam-diggers - similar to either capri pants or 
pedal-pushers, also from around the 1950s.
Patty

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of aqua...@patriot.net
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:07 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants

There was a short fad for knickers in the mid to late 1970s for women.
Gauchos were another one, loose pants that ended below the knee - sort of like 
a split skirt.
For both, you might wear them with a blouse and matching vest.

Culottes were a skirt/shorts combo, just above the knee. They might have a wide 
leg or a separate panel for the skirt effect. Sporty, I remember my mom wearing 
them for golfing.

Capri pants are high ankle or low calf length, and are currently fashionable, 
and were various times back as far as the 1950s. I think of Audrey Hepburn in 
them.

Pedal pushers were long-ish shorts, I think just below the knee? But a regular 
pants width, not flared and not gathered. I remember them from the 1960s, but 
could be earlier.

-Carol


> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Sybella  wrote:
>> In the '80s people called pants that ended just below the knee
>> "knickers."
>
> Assuming you mean 1980s: I recall "Capri pants" for women,not knickers.
>
>> Before that, they were "peddle pushers." And I think there's at least
>> one other name for them. "Knee highs," maybe?  It seems every time
>> they come back into fashion, they are called something else.
>
> Probably, pedal-pushers as that what my mom called the things they
> went bicycling in in the 1950s.
>
> Also, Knickers strikes me as something an early 20th c golfer or
> upperclass sport hunter (male) might wear.
> --cin
> Cynthia Barnes
> cinbar...@gmail.com

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Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

No one seems to have mentioned bifurcated garments...19th C. review and 
philosophy of women wearing male garments...including Bible Quotations...Lots 
of interesting examples there!




From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of 
Rickard, Patty [ricka...@mountunion.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:30 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants

I guess I should read all the posts before replying  - fun memories.
Patty

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of Rickard, Patty
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:06 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants

And let's not forget clam-diggers - similar to either capri pants or 
pedal-pushers, also from around the 1950s.
Patty

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of aqua...@patriot.net
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:07 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants

There was a short fad for knickers in the mid to late 1970s for women.
Gauchos were another one, loose pants that ended below the knee - sort of like 
a split skirt.
For both, you might wear them with a blouse and matching vest.

Culottes were a skirt/shorts combo, just above the knee. They might have a wide 
leg or a separate panel for the skirt effect. Sporty, I remember my mom wearing 
them for golfing.

Capri pants are high ankle or low calf length, and are currently fashionable, 
and were various times back as far as the 1950s. I think of Audrey Hepburn in 
them.

Pedal pushers were long-ish shorts, I think just below the knee? But a regular 
pants width, not flared and not gathered. I remember them from the 1960s, but 
could be earlier.

-Carol


> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Sybella  wrote:
>> In the '80s people called pants that ended just below the knee
>> "knickers."
>
> Assuming you mean 1980s: I recall "Capri pants" for women,not knickers.
>
>> Before that, they were "peddle pushers." And I think there's at least
>> one other name for them. "Knee highs," maybe?  It seems every time
>> they come back into fashion, they are called something else.
>
> Probably, pedal-pushers as that what my mom called the things they
> went bicycling in in the 1950s.
>
> Also, Knickers strikes me as something an early 20th c golfer or
> upperclass sport hunter (male) might wear.
> --cin
> Cynthia Barnes
> cinbar...@gmail.com

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Re: [h-cost] vintage hat-making instructions

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I use buckram for hats. It comes in different weights and can be found in black 
and white.



From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of 
Sybella [mae...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 9:11 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage hat-making instructions

Hat canvas is different than interfacing. It looks more like heavily
stiffened gauze. (I have no clue what Timtex is but I do have a small roll
of canvas for hats. Unfortunately, I have no packaging to identify it by
brand.)

Some of my vintage hats are wired too but most of them hold their shape
with just the canvas.

I would take "canvas the brim" to mean "attach the interfacing," the
interfacing being the hat canvas, of course.

As for fabric choices, what will it be worn with? Perhaps a velveteen?

'Bella



On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Suzanne  wrote:

> I have a millinery question -- or maybe I just need some hand-holding
> while I talk through these instructions.
>
> I'm looking at a © 1908 McCall's pattern for a "turban" and it starts out,
> "Canvas the brim".  Does that simply mean 'attach interfacing'?  What was
> "canvas" in 1908?  (Will Timtex work?)  This should be a simple project
> 'cause it's only 2 pattern pieces… but hats are definitely not my strong
> suit!  The so-called brim is a shaped upright piece, similar to a "Scotch
> bonnet"; the crown is a soft, slightly gathered, oval.  The glory of the
> turban is in the braid and feather trim, of course.  But first we gotta'
> make the hat… and I have a student anxious for my help… I'm touched by her
> confidence but I really don't know what I'm doing!
>
> This hat has no lining, and the directions tell me to turn under the edge
> of the brim and stitch it down.  What would be suitable fabrics?  Do I need
> a wool felt, or can we do this with any tightly woven fashion fabric?  (The
> yardage on the pattern envelope is for 27" wide fabric, but doesn't
> indicate what fabric.)  Help!
>
> Suzanne
> in Iowa
>
>
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Re: [h-cost] costume exhibit book

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I likewise would like to be on the Book list. I spend summers in Dunbarton, my 
home town. Always interested  in what is going on at UNH.
Kathleen mitchell


From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of 
Astrida Schaeffer [astr...@schaefferarts.com]
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 9:12 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume exhibit book

Embellishments: Constructing Victorian Design up through March 22 in Durham NH, 
website is www.izaak.unh.edu/museum. I'd hoped to put up links to more photos 
than that site has by last Friday but got swamped; it's on my to do list for 
today and will post here when it's up. In the meantime, I do have some photos 
up on my professional FB page, SchaefferArts Costume Exhibition & Care if 
anyone wants a look.

Also, I have been making a list of everyone who's wanted to go on the 
notification list for when the book does finally come out, so if I haven't 
individually acknowledged you, never fear!

Astrida

On Feb 3, 2013, at 10:13 AM, Wicked Frau  wrote:

> Drat - I missed it...what exhibit?
>
> On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Mary + Doug Piero Carey <
> mary.d...@pierocarey.info> wrote:
>
>> me! Me!
>> put me on the list, too!
>>
>> Mary Piero Carey
>> __**_
>> h-costume mailing list
>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/**listinfo/h-costume
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -Sg-
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Re: [h-cost] Old fashion paper

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

this is the kind of item that I send to Penny for the costume library. Fashion 
items that I do not have house-room for, nor plan to use for a printing project 
of my own will at least be saved..even if they might be out 'there'
already. 
Libraries are a proper repository for such itinerate published items that might 
be otherwise missed.
kathleen


From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of 
Katy Bishop [katybisho...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:01 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old fashion paper

How interesting is the information on the page?

Katy

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Sharon Collier  wrote:
> I bought an antique puzzle, and in the box, used to pad the pieces, was a
> sheet of an old newspaper, The Cleveland Observer, dated April 21. 1928. AND
> it was the front page of the fashion section! Showing dresses and hats, etc.
>
> My question is, what should I do with it? It's rather torn, and yellowed.
> And  I don't want to put it back in with the puzzle-non-acid paper is best
> for that. Do you think It's all on microfiche already? Should I attempt to
> tape the pieces back together?
>
> Sharon C.
>
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--
Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
katybisho...@gmail.comwww.VintageVictorian.com
 Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
  Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.
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[h-cost] FW: Fabric swatches

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Have any other list members seen this costume/textile resource? Scope is 
wonderful!

From: Linda V Troost
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 8:30 AM
To: R Lloyd Mitchell
Subject: Fabric swatches

Dear Kathleen,

Here it is:

http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/electronicswatchbook/

And let us set a date for starting to work on my costume--I'll bring some 
pictures to church on Sunday and we can go from there at last!

Linda

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Re: [h-cost] asian costume

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Thanks for the clarification. I had missed the the BC dating. More careful 
reading of the Mongol Costume, while collected and analyzed in the early 20th 
Century dates some of the clothing to the 15th and 16th Centuries. Old, but not 
Ancient. 


From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of 
Andrew Trembley [attre...@bovil.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 3:31 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] asian costume

Well, the original question was about third century BC. Reasonably ancient
by my standards.

"Mongol Costume" is documentation for the early 20th century. Not ancient
by any standards.


On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 7:07 AM, R Lloyd Mitchell wrote:

> So what is "ancient"? before recordered history? I have been making
> (interpreting) some of designs that are
> described as pre 900...basic clothing that is compared with Roman and
> Greekdraping and fittings..as counterparts to Northern China extant pieces.
> Can you point me to more recent sources that may record Asian Costume of
> the time you see as Ancient? Unfortunately, Max Tilke in "Costume Patterns
> and Design" does not give dates to place the clothing development for the
> garments he offers in the international Costumes he introduces.
>
> 
> From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf
> Of Andrew Trembley [attre...@bovil.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 7:41 PM
> To: Historical Costume
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] asian costume
>
> The Carlsberg Foundation Nomad Research Project is a Danish anthropological
> survey of nomadic peoples funded/supported by Carlsberg Brewing. "Mongol
> Costume" is an analysis of garments brought back by late 1930's Danish
> expeditions.
>
> Don't get me wrong, it's a great book, and provides insightful analysis of
> the evolution of Mongol clothing, but if you're looking for "ancient" this
> isn't the book you want.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 1:13 PM, R Lloyd Mitchell <
> rmitch...@staff.washjeff.edu> wrote:
>
> > Coming in late on this; did anyone mention "Mongol Costume" in the
> > discusion o f? Peasant garb? The book was published by the Carlsberg
> > Foundation, Nomad Research Project 1993. it? includes basic clothing
> design
> > descriptions for the China Stepps and central environs frmon very early
> > times. Not surprising, pics are inclusive of garments and artifacts on
> the
> > wealthy side of Class, but the shapes, colors, patterns include basic
> > costume theory.
> >
> > ___
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> >
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Re: [h-cost] asian costume

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

So what is "ancient"? before recordered history? I have been making 
(interpreting) some of designs that are
described as pre 900...basic clothing that is compared with Roman and 
Greekdraping and fittings..as counterparts to Northern China extant pieces. Can 
you point me to more recent sources that may record Asian Costume of the time 
you see as Ancient? Unfortunately, Max Tilke in "Costume Patterns and Design" 
does not give dates to place the clothing development for the garments he 
offers in the international Costumes he introduces.


From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of 
Andrew Trembley [attre...@bovil.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 7:41 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] asian costume

The Carlsberg Foundation Nomad Research Project is a Danish anthropological
survey of nomadic peoples funded/supported by Carlsberg Brewing. "Mongol
Costume" is an analysis of garments brought back by late 1930's Danish
expeditions.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great book, and provides insightful analysis of
the evolution of Mongol clothing, but if you're looking for "ancient" this
isn't the book you want.


On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 1:13 PM, R Lloyd Mitchell <
rmitch...@staff.washjeff.edu> wrote:

> Coming in late on this; did anyone mention "Mongol Costume" in the
> discusion o f? Peasant garb? The book was published by the Carlsberg
> Foundation, Nomad Research Project 1993. it? includes basic clothing design
> descriptions for the China Stepps and central environs frmon very early
> times. Not surprising, pics are inclusive of garments and artifacts on the
> wealthy side of Class, but the shapes, colors, patterns include basic
> costume theory.
>
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[h-cost] asian costume

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Coming in late on this; did anyone mention "Mongol Costume" in the discusion o 
f? Peasant garb? The book was published by the Carlsberg Foundation, Nomad 
Research Project 1993. it? includes basic clothing design descriptions for the 
China Stepps and central environs frmon very early times. Not surprising, pics 
are inclusive of garments and artifacts on the wealthy side of Class, but the 
shapes, colors, patterns include basic costume theory.
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Re: [h-cost] cherusque collar

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

That figures. The costume is dated 1815. Thankyou.
KSM
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Re: [h-cost] cherusque collar

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Ah! I have just the right piece.Thanks.
KSM
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[h-cost] cherusque collar

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Has anyone come across a definition of a cherusque collar? I am looking at a 
garment of Princess Louise Agusta 1771-1843. The part of the collar shown 
appears to be a stand up shape..maybe shear silver fabric that is stiffened in 
some way. First thought is cherub; I"m not sure how the term connects with the 
'likeness.
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Re: [h-cost] Where Can I Find Plain Flat Pewter Buttons?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Fugawee is one source.
-Original Message-
From: "Sarah Kuhlman" 
Sent 11/4/2012 11:07:47 PM
To: "h-cost...@indra.com" 
Subject: [h-cost] Where Can I Find Plain Flat Pewter Buttons?
Hello,
I am in search of a source for large quantities of plain flat pewter buttons, 
both large (7/8 - 1 inch) & small (9/16-1/2 inch) for Revolutionary War coats. 
I checked James Townsend & the cost for the amount of buttons for just one coat 
is quite high. Does anyone know where I can get larger amounts for a lower 
cost? I would really appreciate it.
Sarah Grace> From: h-costume-requ...@indra.com
> Subject: h-costume Digest, Vol 11, Issue 249
> To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 12:00:01 -0700
>
> Send h-costume mailing list submissions to
>   h-costume@mail.indra.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>   http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>   h-costume-requ...@mail.indra.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>   h-costume-ow...@mail.indra.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Stitches in time: Sandy Powell's Oscar-winning costumes
>   (Catherine Walton)
>2. Re: Indian? Pakistani? Not sure what it is. (Wanda Pease)
>3. Re: Indian? Pakistani? Not sure what it is. (Marjorie Wilser)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2012 21:36:02 +
> From: Catherine Walton 
> To: Historical Costume 
> Subject: [h-cost] Stitches in time: Sandy Powell's Oscar-winning
>   costumes
> Message-ID: <50958e42.8020...@cherryfield.me.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I thought you might be interested in this aricle by Sandy Powell about
> her career in film costuming:
>
> "She has dressed everyone from Elizabeth I to Shakespeare, from lovelorn
> housewives to gangster dandies. As her work goes on show, Sandy Powell
> explains the tricks of the trade."
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2012/oct/17/sandy-powell-oscar-winning-costumes
>
> It's a pity I lost the item when it came out, two or three weeks ago,
> but at least I've found it and sent it now!
>
> With best wishes from Catherine Linda Walton,
> (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.).
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 21:30:10 -0700
> From: Wanda Pease 
> To: Historical Costume 
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Indian? Pakistani? Not sure what it is.
> Message-ID: <5f87757c-53e9-4627-b94c-d513bd294...@hevanet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I tend to find these at my local Thrift stores too.  Frequently the pants 
> have gotten separated from the rest of the outfit (found one pair in 
> pajamas!).  Sometimes they never show, but the tunic is long and full enough 
> that I wear it as a dress and scarf anyway.  Since I no longer have to 
> conform, i. e. I can be excentric, I can wear it to work and get compliments 
> from the young folk.  I'd say you have parts.of a Salwar/Kameze outfit.
> You could make pants for it.  The pants don't always match in color says 
> my friend from Pakistan.
> Wanda
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 1, 2012, at 8:25 AM, Marion McNealy  wrote:
>
> > And here are some other ones, http://www.utsavfashion.com/lehenga
> >
> > - Marion
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: Marjorie Wilser 
> > To: Historical Costume 
> > Sent: Thu, November 1, 2012 2:16:50 AM
> > Subject: [h-cost] Indian? Pakistani? Not sure what it is.
> >
> > In the interest of historical costume, modern version:
> >
> > I have a great thrift store outfit I purchased some years ago in the South 
> > Bay
> > (San Jose) area. It looks like a typical woman's "Punjabi suit" consisting 
> > of
> > tunic, shawl, and pants-- except there are no pants. There is a long, even 
> > on me
> > (5'10) flowing skirt. It's obviously dressy attire. There is gold (?) 
> > bullion
> > embroidery on the front of the tunic, and tiny gold seed beads stitched all 
> > over
> > the skirt and shawl (wider than the typical Paloo of a sari). Fabric is an
> > abstract print in warm brown and golden tones on a lightweight silk. Lined
> > throughout. It was a very lucky find for me because I am tall and had only 
> > to
> > steal fabric from a seam to add a bust room gusset under the arms.
> >
> > Anybody care to hazard a guess as to this outfit's origins? I'm definitely
> > voting for the Punjab because of the tunic, and thinking perhaps it might be
> > some very formal outfit due to the heavy embroidery. I don't think this list
> > takes attachments, but I do have a pic to post. . . somewhere, or send to
> > whomever is interested.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > ==Marjorie Wilser
> >
> > @..@   @..@   @..@
> > Three Toad Press
> > http://3toad.blo

Re: [h-cost] Advice on new sewing machine

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Was it the drop in bobbin kind...terrible! What?I really loved was the ability 
to sew wool-geogette-denium,all grads of cotton, velveteen etc without throwing 
a hissyfit. The sales demo even added leather and a piece of Balsa wood! I 
purchased it about the time the invisable zipper was coming to use. The steel 
regular zipperfoot beat the accommodatorwith great ease. I came to really 
appreciate my all metal model after using one of my mother's new and Approved 
light weights with plastic gears!!!?
-Original Message-
From: "Marjorie Wilser" 
Sent 9/3/2012 12:25:20 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Advice on new sewing machineI'm amazed. . . the Kenmore 
was my mother's machine which I learned to
hate -- literally chewed up anything with a soft hand, and refused
crossed seams completely.
==Marjorie Wilser
@..@   @..@   @..@
Three Toad Press
http://3toad.blogspot.com/
On Sep 2, 2012, at 4:29 PM, R Lloyd Mitchell wrote:
> Fran, I am still singing the wonders of a Kenmore 158: series.
> Replaced my Beloved of over 30 years with a Pfaff "Jeans and satin".
> The pfaff really has lived up to its hype and does not require a
> transition period between fibers...just like the Kenmore of the
> '70s. But for rugged costume mileage, it was always at MY beck and
> call. Picked up a free arm last month on e-Bay that never saw much
> sewing even though it was advertised as used. While searching, came
> across a number of them New and some with cases for about $200. My
> original one (1972) had key cams that I seldom used...but I love the
> button-holer, also with keys Great when you need to make dozens!
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Re: [h-cost] Advice on new sewing machine

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Fran, I am still singing the wonders of a Kenmore 158: series. Replaced my 
Beloved of over 30 years with a Pfaff "Jeans and satin". The pfaff really has 
lived up to its hype and does not require a transition period between 
fibers...just like the Kenmore of the '70s. But for rugged costume mileage, it 
was always at MY beck and call. Picked up a free arm last month on e-Bay that 
never saw much sewing even though it was advertised as used. While searching, 
came across a number of them New and some with cases for about $200. My 
original one (1972) had key cams that I seldom used...but I love the 
button-holer, also with keys Great when you need to make dozens!
Kathleen
-Original Message-
From: "Lavolta Press" 
Sent 9/2/2012 6:52:11 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] Advice on new sewing machineI do not want a serger, or an 
embroidery machine.  I want a machine with
the following features:
* Metal body
* Durability
* Infrequent need for service
* Not quirky
* Really good straight stitch
* Zigzag capability
* Easy buttonholes
* Ability to sew both light and heavy fabrics easily, including crossing
seams
* Free arm or narrow bed? so I can sew sleeves easily
* Probably the ability to lower the feed dogs
* Mechanical machine, except I'm confused about the term. Even the
"mechanical" machines (new not vintage) clearly have some computerization
* A machine that doesn't try to make my decisions for me!
* Probably a new machine, since I don't want to inherit someone else's
problems and want to be able to get parts easily
* Good track records.  I have bought two expensive machines (over time)
that were supposedly good machines from reputable manufacturers, yet
they turned out to be a chronic PITA
I am considering the Bernina 1008, since as far as I can tell the 1015
is no longer made. But clearly other manufacturers are also making
mechanical machines.
Thanks for any advice.
Fran
Lavolta Press
Books of historic patterns
www.lavoltapress.comwww.facebook.com/LavoltaPress
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Re: [h-cost] Looking for a Bicorne hat

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I used Hatcrafters for years before my retirement and was always 
pleased...except for the one time I ordered a 'blank'...no enough wool fiber. 
The bicorn comes in a couple of different models...great for stage and can be 
customized for personal use. Great folk to work with if you need something a 
'little off track". You can get sized hats from generic small and over size 8!!
The HatCap Exchange Co. (used to be 'related') is a great source for Production 
hats...Not especially of near quality of felt products but very good looking 
for One Occasion Production use.
-Original Message-
From: "Chris Bertani" 
Sent 8/22/2012 1:21:26 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for a Bicorne hatI've never bought a bicorn from 
HatCrafters
(http://hatcrafters.com/page5.htm), but I've bought other hats from
them, and been satisfied.
Regards,
-- Chris Bertani
www.goblinrevolution.org/costumes
On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:13 AM, C. Kinsey  wrote:
> This is a first for me; I need to find a good bicorne hat, for an XL head (7 
> 7/8).
>
> Most of the ones out on the web are the onesizefitsall Halloween type hats.  
> Found one site in England but I am in the USA and am hoping to find something 
> a little closer to home.
>
> Anyone have a good source they could recommend?
>
> Thanks,
> Catherine
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Re: [h-cost] sewing machines

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

!
My alltime favorite is a Kenmore 158 series, all steel innards! Got a 'free 
arm' last week on E-bay for $28 including shipping! Not a scratch on it; think 
it might have been a demo. There were several including carry case for 
$200NEW!...I killed my original with costume sewing for 30 yrs. 
-Original Message-
From: "Bambi TBNL" 
Sent 8/15/2012 8:52:53 AM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machinesIf you are even considering a berrnina, i 
have hadseveram. They have a working life of ao many stitches in  ear... 
Aftermath they die. Mine were never new butter were factory refurbished with a 
ear guarantee so i gave them  chance they first and second times. It wa not a 
good experience even the 3rd tome. The equivalent inall things reliable 
andcomparativley useable is hukvarba or the liking co. Oh now i had gotten 1 of 
those.
-Original Message-
Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 7:30:45 am
To: "Historical Costume" 
From: "Marjorie Wilser" 
Subject: [h-cost] sewing machines
Went with a friend to look at new sewing machines. We hit a Bernina
store because we were in the hood.
My brain boggled at the prices (21K for ALL the bellses & whistles). . .
Is anybody else shopping and what are your parameters for a great
sewing machine that won't break the bank? (I'm now interested in a
serger, so I'll start a parallel thread).
==Marjorie Wilser (whose beloved Pfaff is working just fine, thank you!)
@..@   @..@   @..@
Three Toad Press
http://3toad.blogspot.com/
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Re: [h-cost] Meaning of "breeches" in late 16th to mid-17th c. English

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

And with variations, even the 19th C. Men walking about in shirt sleeves 
without at least a vest, "were naked".
-Original Message-
From: "Jill" 
Sent 7/20/2012 2:41:58 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Meaning of "breeches" in late 16th to mid-17th c. 
EnglishBreeches were and still are outer wear.   In Persia the men would
have, as some still do today,  wear long robes and any trousers (of
any desciption) worn would not be immediately apparent.   Don't take
the description written in 16th and 17th centuries to be valid in
modern language.  For example - for someone to be seen naked in the
17th century didn't mean to be bare and without clothing, it meant to
be seen in your underwear (which was a big no no).
Jill
At 19:27 20/07/2012, you wrote:
>I'm trying to determine what the word "breeches" meant - did it mean
>underpants only, or did it have other meanings, for example,
>knee-length or shorter trousers - from the late 16th through
>mid-17th centuries.
>
>I ask because visitors to Persia commented that the men wore no
>breeches and i'm trying to determine the implications.
>
>I have seen knee-length trousers called "breeches" in parts of 16th
>c. Europe - garments that could be outer wear. As certain details of
>European clothing are outside my expertise, i am asking the
>collective wisdom here.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Urtatim al-Qurtubiyya
>SCA
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Growing old is inevitable but growing up is optional
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Re: [h-cost] Nell Gwyn

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

But the King took her to some private parties where she presumably had a ken to 
know how to dress(public) The demimondain always had Their standards and 
perhaps the 'chemise' look had a public 'vision'.?Marie Antoinette in her time 
was able to make 'undress' public with her MilkMaid fashion. Private but not 
Public.
---Original Message-
From: "Beteena Paradise" 
Sent 7/10/2012 6:15:31 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nell Gwyn>From what I understand about her, she wouldn't 
be one to wear the "at home"
dress. She was much less formal. ;-)
?
Teena

From: R Lloyd Mitchell 
To: Historical Costume 
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nell Gwyn
What was 'undress' in this time period re "at home"...or stage door expecta
tion
-Original Message-
From: "Beteena Paradise" 
Sent 7/10/2012 6:06:19 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nell GwynTo me it sounds a bit like what you see so o
ften at a renn faire. Her smock with a sleeveless bodice over it and a skir
t.
?
Teena

From: Linda Walton 
To: "h-cost...@indra.com" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 5:53 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Nell Gwyn
I found this in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography:
"Pepys saw Nell again on 1 May 1667, standing at her lodgings' door in Drur
y Lane (off Bridges Street, the site of the King's Theatre), ?in her smock
sleeves and bodice ? she seemed a mighty pretty creature? (Pepys, 8.193)."
Please, I'd very much like to know what Nell Gwyn was wearing:? can anyone
suggest an illustration which might help?
Linda Walton.
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Re: [h-cost] Nell Gwyn

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

What was 'undress' in this time period re "at home"...or stage door expectation
-Original Message-
From: "Beteena Paradise" 
Sent 7/10/2012 6:06:19 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nell GwynTo me it sounds a bit like what you see so often 
at a renn faire. Her smock with a sleeveless bodice over it and a skirt.
?
Teena

From: Linda Walton 
To: "h-cost...@indra.com" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 5:53 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Nell Gwyn
I found this in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography:
"Pepys saw Nell again on 1 May 1667, standing at her lodgings' door in Drury 
Lane (off Bridges Street, the site of the King's Theatre), ?in her smock 
sleeves and bodice ? she seemed a mighty pretty creature? (Pepys, 8.193)."
Please, I'd very much like to know what Nell Gwyn was wearing:? can anyone 
suggest an illustration which might help?
Linda Walton.
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Re: [h-cost] What is a Whip?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

A short perusal seems to indicate a character who practices??the cutting edge 
of Fashion..often to the edge of comedy...Bertie Wooster? Many of the "Swells" 
of Jane Austin, Bronte, and Dickens...
Kathleen
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 6/28/2012 12:41:28 AM
To: "h-costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] What is a Whip?I am working with a 1914 etiquette book and a 
person titled Whip is used in
the section about Dress When Driving.  What / Who is a Whip in this context?
"Men who are guests on a coach wear morning or afternoon dress according to
the hour of the day on which the vehicle makes its start.  The whip, if the
host of the occasion, is usually arrayed in distinctive costume.  A gray
suit is the usual selection for spring and summer, brown is a frequent
choice for the autumn..  In the country, and in summer, a gentleman whip
wears a light colored and light-weight suit, with brown shoes and gloves and
a straw or panama hat.
For touring, or driving an automobile.No ceremonious costume for men has yet
been evolved to approximate, in style and completeness, the formal dress an
amateur whip wears."
Penny Ladnier, owner
The Costume Gallery Websites
 www.costumegallery.com
15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
FaceBook:  
http://www.facebook.com/TheCostumeGallery
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Re: [h-cost] Brim Stiffening

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

There is a product called "Stiffy?( used by crafters who "do" lace figurines). 
I think it has a plastic ingrediant that may work..? Other wise, try edging the 
brim with hat wire or 18 guage wire which is whipped on the edge by 
hand...unless you are adept with a zigzag on your sering machine. Tedious, but 
sure.
..That may work
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 5/23/2012 6:46:23 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Brim StiffeningIs it felt? You can buy hat sizing that 
you brush on.
Ann Wass
-Original Message-
From: CC2010Milw 
To: h-costume 
Sent: Wed, May 23, 2012 6:32 pm
Subject: [h-cost] Brim Stiffening
Hello!
I bought a Campaign hat from Janet Wilson Anderson, Alteryears, at
CC30. The brim is not as stiff as I would like. I was thinking spray-on
starch.
Any ideas?
Henry W Osier
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Re: [h-cost] Grrrrr ... !

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I googled both Argo and Sta-flo and these brands are readily available on 
line...coupons and free shipping for some of the sites. Letting my fingers do 
the shopping sure saves on gas!
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 5/17/2012 3:44:33 AM
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gr ... !I believe the reason people are having 
trouble finding starch depends on
supply and demand.  I have no trouble finding Argo and the old blue bottle
of Sta-flo starch in my area.  If there is not a big demand for the product
in your area, the stores will drop the product.  In my county, there is
diversity in age depending where you live.  In the neighborhoods near me,
people are old enough to know what to do with powder or liquid starch.  If I
drove 10 miles west, where the average people are younger generation, the
stores' products differ. That generation would rather go to a dry cleaners
than iron their clothes.If you show a lot of the younger generation a
box or bottle of starch, they probably wouldn't know what to do with it.
Many do not even own an ironing board.
As far as product selection and retailers:
Watch the Costco documentary that is showing this month on MSNBC.  We have
problems with Costco dropping products.  The documentary explains how Costco
buys, product lines, markets, etc.  The problem is that the retailer and
manufacturer cannot agree on their wholesale prices.  When this happens,
Costco drops the product.  Costco has a 15% markup and regular grocer
retailers have 25%.  Costco is the number one retailer right now. When
Costco, Sam's Club or WalMart drops them a product... what an impact the top
three grocery stores can make on a manufacturer.   Costco carries a limited
assortment or only one product (example ketchup) to deliberately not give
customers choices.  Research shows that if you only have one or two choices
of a product, a customer will buy it on spot so they don't have to go to
another grocery store.  Given a big assortment, a customer is confused and
will not purchase.
Here a video of 10 minutes of the documentary:
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/rock-center/47182853#47182853
Calvin Klein sued Warnaco Group, a supplier to Costco and other retail
clubs, for selling CK goods to these cheaper retailers. BTW, you can still
buy SK goods at Costco.
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=2601&slug=40239
91  Which would you choose for clothing-- Costco's 15% markup or a
department store's 50%+ markup for a designer brand.
My husband and I did an interesting survey last week.  I was at Sam's Club
and he was at Costco at the same time.  We both had a copy of our monthly
grocery list.  We talked on the cell phone and compared prices.  Sam's does
carry a larger assortment of products than Costco.  Costco only carries
4,000 products.  Off the mainland U.S., Costco carries more products...I've
been to their stores in Hawaii and Liverpool, England...love them!  I wish
we had the choices these location have.
A big problem with retailers and manufacturers is the extreme couponers who
are purchasing entire shelves of products.  I don't think either end knows
how to get a grip on this problem.  But it is causing problems of keeping
merchandise on the shelves for the other customers to purchase.
Lastly, some retailers have different prices according to the location of
the store.  I have seen this at Lowe's and Food Lion within 10 miles of my
house.  Strange, both charge higher prices in lower income areas.  Lowe's
actually carries lower and higher ends goods at higher income neighborhoods.
Now, Lowe's is tracking your purchases by your name.  Try it!  Get their
Lowe's discount card, and purchase an item.  Go to any Lowe's without a
receipt to return the product.  They will scan the item and card, and pull
up your receipt from when you originally purchased the item.  This can be
good and bad.
Penny Ladnier, owner
The Costume Gallery Websites
www.costumegallery.com
15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/TheCostumeGallery
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Re: [h-cost] Hippy craft projects

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Thanks for the link...We have a "v.olleyball Net using the "process"...Thanks 
for your contribution
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 4/24/2012 1:40:55 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hippy craft projectsNot a finished piece, but here's a 
how-to: http://www.instructables.com/id/Genuine-chainmaille-from-pop-tabs/
-Original Message-
>From: R Lloyd Mitchell 
>Sent: Apr 24, 2012 11:37 AM
>To: h-cost...@indra.com
>Subject: [h-cost] Hippy craft projects
>
>Does any one know of a surviving "chainmail" armour tunic made from pull 
>tabs(pop/beer cans)?I have two books on how to recycle pantyhose, fabulous 
>volume of jeans embroidery, and some misc craft ideas like the bottletop 
>scraper rug and creative uses for winecorks. I have seen photos of nifty 
>armour, but never seen it up close and personal.
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[h-cost] Hippy craft projects

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Does any one know of a surviving "chainmail" armour tunic made from pull 
tabs(pop/beer cans)?I have two books on how to recycle pantyhose, fabulous 
volume of jeans embroidery, and some misc craft ideas like the bottletop 
scraper rug and creative uses for winecorks. I have seen photos of nifty 
armour, but never seen it up close and personal.
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Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmaker​'s dummy wearing today?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

The 'dummy' I am working with this week is for a 20" model, seated. The project 
is an interpretation of Queen Victoria's portrait in the Diamond Jubilee 
gallery.? Black satin with antique lace overlay...even have a small piece of 
Honiton to use.? Researching the Crown was lots of fun...didn't know there was 
so many resources for this online. The model is dated 1984 and dour enough to 
be just right. Thanks again to Fran for pattern shapes!
-Original Message-
From: "Ann Catelli" 
Sent 3/13/2012 10:24:29 AM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmaker?'s dummy wearing today?Sure is--my 
dummy (well, me, anyway) will be wearing a 1916 envelope chemis
e soon, I hope, and then a nice set of high corsets (yay! patents), and the
n I'll figure out the outfit. ;) All for a trip to exotic & far-away Phoeni
x (really Tempe, AZ) for Costume-Con 30, I hope.
Not Titanic, obviously, but the Great War era has been attracting my resear
ch lately.? Hopefully I won't be too distracted by the Fabulous crochet p
atterns of the era.
Also working on a FFF Show entry, which I haven't said yet I'll enter, but
I don't want to promise what I may not deliver. :(
Ann in CT

From: "seamst...@juno.com" 
I'm currently working on a 1910's suit (lot of that going around!) for a Ti
tanic memorial tea party in April. I have completed the hankercheif linen s
hirtwaist with lace insertions and am now on to making the suit itself whic
h is a blush/cream herringbone in a silk/cotton blend.?  KarenSeamstrix
?
-- Original Message --
From: Cin 
So, what's your dressmaker's dummy wearing today?
--cin
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Re: [h-cost] Cedar chips/moths

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

?Another 19th C method was using cloves in drawers and closets to discourage 
closet pests.
-Original Message-
From: "Lynn Downward" 
Sent 2/24/2012 3:27:40 PM
To: gbacgcostum...@yahoogroups.com, "Historical Costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] Cedar chips/mothsHi all,
We've had an infestation of moths in the house, mostly in my feather
collection. I had them all in a (not airtight) plastic container. Thinking
that they needed some air, I kept all the vintage feathers carefully
wrapped up in tissue. Those feather I didn't care much about were in
zip-lock bags and had no moths in them at all. Of course the damage was to
the vintage feathers.
When I bring feathers home, I always put them in a zip bag and leave them
in the freezer for a couple of weeks to kill off any bugs that may already
be in them before I add them to my collection. Unfortunately, something
went wrong with my plans. After tossing about a third of my collection,
I've cleaned the rest and put them back into the freezer. I'll be ready to
take them out this weekend. Before I do I want to purchase some cedar chips
or a bit of cedar and put them in with the feathers and in my wool boxes
(the smell of moth balls makes me nauseous so I'm not going there).
SO my question: I understand the oils in the cedar (or lavendar if I decide
to use that instead) can stain and I wondered how you have avoided this.
Would putting the cedar or lavendar into one layer of muslin keep my
fabrics/feathers from being stained and still keep the moths out? Two
layers?
Thanks for any information you might have,
Lynn
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Re: [h-cost] Cedar chips/moths

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Another way to discourage these closetpests is lacing your storage containers 
with cloves! Clearing an attic and also a basement storage of 19th century 
homes I was amazed to see items including textiles warded with cloves..they 
seemed tohave done their job well!
-Original Message-
From: "Lynn Downward" 
Sent 2/24/2012 3:27:40 PM
To: gbacgcostum...@yahoogroups.com, "Historical Costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] Cedar chips/mothsHi all,
We've had an infestation of moths in the house, mostly in my feather
collection. I had them all in a (not airtight) plastic container. Thinking
that they needed some air, I kept all the vintage feathers carefully
wrapped up in tissue. Those feather I didn't care much about were in
zip-lock bags and had no moths in them at all. Of course the damage was to
the vintage feathers.
When I bring feathers home, I always put them in a zip bag and leave them
in the freezer for a couple of weeks to kill off any bugs that may already
be in them before I add them to my collection. Unfortunately, something
went wrong with my plans. After tossing about a third of my collection,
I've cleaned the rest and put them back into the freezer. I'll be ready to
take them out this weekend. Before I do I want to purchase some cedar chips
or a bit of cedar and put them in with the feathers and in my wool boxes
(the smell of moth balls makes me nauseous so I'm not going there).
SO my question: I understand the oils in the cedar (or lavendar if I decide
to use that instead) can stain and I wondered how you have avoided this.
Would putting the cedar or lavendar into one layer of muslin keep my
fabrics/feathers from being stained and still keep the moths out? Two
layers?
Thanks for any information you might have,
Lynn
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[h-cost] Russian jacket

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Me again, peoject of the week for my "Cut Down to Size" is ?a mid 19th C 
costume based on "Russian Ellegance..country and City. fashions. the jacket I 
am studying has a fluted back 'peplum' that is badded and lined with linen. 
(Sort of like a dublet of earlier western style. ) Would the pleats be totally 
lined or would there be a panel to which the pleats would be tacked to retain 
the shape..and stuffed, or would? the padding before lining be sufficient to 
hold the fluting?? (pp.66 has the item? will be working with..___
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Re: [h-cost] Starch recipe

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I have a pair of early 19th C. down pads for the sleeves of the 1820's and 
re-discovered in the Gay 90s to provide "petticoats" for the second generation 
of balloon sleeves... have also seen tulle shoulder cuffs to do the same 
service...Doing the stuffing with baloons or whatever and using?spray starch 
creates the form that could benefit the underpinnings.?
-Original Message-
From: "Katy Bishop" 
Sent 2/14/2012 1:05:13 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Starch recipeThanks.
When I am starching my large puffed 1890s leg-o-mutton sleeves, a real
pain to iron, I blow up a balloon in the sleeve when it is wet and dry
it stretched as flat as possible over the balloon to reduce the amount
of ironing needed--it works great.  Though my daughter is sad when I
have to pop the balloon to get it out.
Katy
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 12:51 PM, Martha Kelly  wro
te:
>
> From the Argo web site:
>
> Q: Can I make laundry starch from Argo and Kingsford's corn starch?
>
> A: ?Yes you can starch clothing with regular corn starch. In a large bo
wl or
> pot, stir 1/2 cup of corn starch into 1 cup of cold water. Stir in boiling
> water (2 quarts for a heavy solution; 4 quarts for medium and 6 quarts fo
r a
> light solution). Dip the clothing into the starch solution and let dry. To
> iron, sprinkle the garments lightly with warm water, roll up and place in
a
> plastic bag until evenly moistened, then iron as usual.
>
>
>
>
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--
Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
katybisho...@gmail.com? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? www.VintageVictorian.com
? ?? Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
? ? ? Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.
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Re: [h-cost] Starch recipe

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

been there and done that...a modern method that would have been celebrated in 
its time!
-Original Message-
From: "Katy Bishop" 
Sent 2/14/2012 1:05:13 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Starch recipeThanks.
When I am starching my large puffed 1890s leg-o-mutton sleeves, a real
pain to iron, I blow up a balloon in the sleeve when it is wet and dry
it stretched as flat as possible over the balloon to reduce the amount
of ironing needed--it works great.  Though my daughter is sad when I
have to pop the balloon to get it out.
Katy
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 12:51 PM, Martha Kelly  wro
te:
>
> From the Argo web site:
>
> Q: Can I make laundry starch from Argo and Kingsford's corn starch?
>
> A: ?Yes you can starch clothing with regular corn starch. In a large bo
wl or
> pot, stir 1/2 cup of corn starch into 1 cup of cold water. Stir in boiling
> water (2 quarts for a heavy solution; 4 quarts for medium and 6 quarts fo
r a
> light solution). Dip the clothing into the starch solution and let dry. To
> iron, sprinkle the garments lightly with warm water, roll up and place in
a
> plastic bag until evenly moistened, then iron as usual.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> h-costume mailing list
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> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
--
Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
katybisho...@gmail.com? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? www.VintageVictorian.com
? ?? Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
? ? ? Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.
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Re: [h-cost] starch recipe

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

back in the 50's, we used potatoe and also pasta water to starch our dirndle 
skirts for school? However Mother cautioned us re leaving them in seasonal 
storage...bait for closet critters! We also used sugar water for crocheted 
items or other special occasion garments. Commercial store starch was super, 
but not in the family budget. All the above sure sharpened our ironing 
skills..re a gummed-up? the solar plate. When Niagra spray come on the market, 
it formed a lifetime connection for me...still? my favorite.
Depending on what you are starching The solution can go from "Yogurt " to 
peasoup to jello water. Stiffy was another product that dates somewhat to that 
time.? I think the base includes cornstarch. But it also is prone to humidity 
melt..so don't?use it on a wide brimmed hat!?
-Original Message-
From: "Katy Bishop" 
Sent 2/14/2012 9:42:08 AM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] starch recipeThanks!  Looks like the stuff.
But I'd still like to know if anyone on the list simply uses
cormstarch, it works nicely but I am wondering on what concentration
is good, so if anyone has a favorite "recipe" for diffeeent levels of
stiffness I'd love to hear it.
Katy
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Betsy Marshall
 wrote:
> Maybe this could substitute?
>
> http://www9.mailordercentral.com/cumberlandgeneral/prodinfo.asp?number=01109
> 1
>
> just a stumble across, no personal experience buying/using starch..
>
> -Original Message-
> From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
> Behalf Of Katy Bishop
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 9:34 PM
> To: Historical Costume
> Subject: [h-cost] starch recipe
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Since I can no longer find liquid starch in the store or faultless
> powdered starch from Bon Ami, I am ready to make my own from
> cornstarch. ?Does anyone has a favorite recipe for starch, I will be
> using it for Victorian petticoats and garments mostly. ?Unless anyone
> knows where one can still buy powdered starch.
>
> --
> Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
> katybisho...@gmail.com? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? www.VintageVictorian.com
> ? ?? Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
> ? ? ? Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.
>
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>
>
> ___
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--
Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
katybisho...@gmail.com? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? www.VintageVictorian.com
? ?? Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
? ? ? Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.
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Re: [h-cost] 1958 prom dress

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Strapless? Small spegetti cord, or self shoulder straps, gathered to about 
2/3"..."'usually snapped on for ease of removal..for an option. Self fabric 
trim using bows, roses Other fabric flowers...one Elizabeth Taylor gown 
appliqued the whole bodice with daiseys (I think) Sprinkles of sequins , tiers 
of ruffles (tulle) or organza.. The tulle ruffle at th bottom would have been 
attached to the hem of the dress."Dipping prtticosts (in my crowd) would have 
been in poor taste (too long, rolled up and slipping.) Appliques of rattail in 
geometric shapes. American in Paris, Daddy Longlegs are two films that might 
give you some ideas.
Kathleen M
-Original Message-
From: "Lynn Roth" 
Sent 1/26/2012 5:36:45 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] 1958 prom dressCould anyone tell me what tyoe of decoration 
would be on a 1958 prom gown?
? I
usually don't do this costume era and i'm not sure what would be acceptable
.?
Also, would the under slip ever show on the bottom?? One of the women wea
ring
the dress would like the bottom(I believe its netting) to show.? Thank yo
u Lynn
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Re: [h-cost] h-costume Digest, Vol 11, Issue 15

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

A problem of the dye or fabric content...?
Kathleen
-Original Message-
From: "lynlee o" 
Sent 1/21/2012 6:22:20 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] h-costume Digest, Vol 11, Issue 15Re red flannel
I have noticed in fabric shops that some dyes make the "same" fabric feel 
different in different colours. Perhaps the red dye permitted the flannel to 
stay a little fluffier than other colours in use early on. Lynlee
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Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

penny,? as you know, I am away from home and my referrences, but Cunnington has 
severel citations about underwear in general and?I think at least one I have 
seen re mourning.? Since (fashionable) women were just beginning to wear 
drawers and with the layers of chemise, corset and corset cover, etc, the color 
white was the only acceptable color for a Lady; other colors and trims that 
adorned the female form were only worn by the demi-monde or women who did not 
know better. Ehite stood for purity and respectability.
It is only in the last quarter of the 19th c that hints of color began to be 
used. I too have never seen a black corset before...well, almost the 
1950's...except in films or on the stage (and we all know what kind of woman 
would stoop to such seductive measures).
Underwear was not to be seen...so for a woman in mourning to appear in anything 
that might be seen...off color...would be strange. There are referrences I 
believe that describe even Victoria wore White!
kathleen?
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 1/18/2012 5:24:03 PM
To: "h-costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and UnderpinningsIf a woman is in mourning 
during the 1860s, were her underpinnings black?
Penny Ladnier, owner
The Costume Gallery Websites
 www.costumegallery.com
15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
FaceBook:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579
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Re: [h-cost] Source for buttons

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

fran, if there is any special type of button you might need for a project, I 
too havea wonderful collection of said buttons , some in the counts of 
12/18...we could do some kind of exchange if I should have what you are looking 
for...
KSM
-Original Message-
From: "Lavolta Press" 
Sent 1/13/2012 1:43:36 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Source for buttonsI've been using original Victorian and 
Edwardian buttons for years. I
used to buy big cards wherever I could find them, and my father bought
me lots of button boxes and jars from estate auctions. I still get
tempted by cards of old buttons on eBay. I have a big cabinet of buttons
on store cards and several huge jars of loose buttons. (I've been going
through the jars from auction lots recently and wondering what to do
with all the Total Deco big coat buttons. I only like Art Deco in
moderation, and there are usually only one or two of each button. ) So I
have not bought many repros, except some handmade artisan ones, cast
pewter and so forth.  I have strenuously tried to avoid stashing modern
buttons from fabric stores. I have so many already and I don't like
plastic buttons.  Really, I ought to be drawing down my fabric, lace,
and button stashes down more. I keep resolving to do that and just end
up with more stuff.
Of course, there are tons of sources for LaMode buttons in general, but
not for the specific ones I wanted.  Their own website lists their
products but does not sell direct to consumers that I can find.  But,
the suggestion WickedFrau made to search the net on the button/style
number given on the card was very useful. I used three small online
stores to round out three sets of buttons.
Thanks, everyone,
Fran
Lavolta Press
www.lavoltapress.comwww.facebook.com/LavoltaPress
On 1/13/2012 4:48 AM, R Lloyd Mitchell wrote:
> Fran, not sure just what your project is but there are a fair number of 
> LaMode buttons up on e=Bay...some are a bit pricey...Then I googled LaMode 
> buttons and there seem to be dozens of sources, including theLaMode web site.
> Does this help?
>
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Re: [h-cost] Source for buttons

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Fran, not sure just what your project is but there are a fair number of LaMode 
buttons up on e=Bay...some are a bit pricey...Then I googled LaMode buttons and 
there seem to be dozens of sources, including theLaMode web site.
Does this help?
-Original Message-
From: "Lavolta Press" 
Sent 1/12/2012 10:03:24 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] Source for buttonsWhere is a good place to buy the "La Mode" 
collection of vintage
reproduction buttons online?  I cleaned out my local J-Ann's of a couple
of styles without finding enough for a project.  And I go to J-Ann's as
seldom as possible . . .
Fran
Lavolta Press
www.lavoltapress.comwww.facebook.com/LavoltaPress
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Re: [h-cost] Beading supplies

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

You haven't mentioned size range; pearls or colored glass...I had good luck 
restringing FM gems on silk for setting on garments in use.? Also, I find the 
antique sari trim on e-bay sometimes comes in well for trim of the sort you 
seem to be looking for. In addition to the tapes, tiny single or double strand 
ropes may be found.? I had wonderful luck last spring in finding beaded motiffs 
that can be cut apart and used as appliques are on very sturdy string or 
chord...My Regency dress combined the bead work with embroidery to great 
success.
Kathleen
-Original Message-
From: "Lavolta Press" 
Sent 1/3/2012 3:00:11 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] Beading suppliesI don't really like beading. Most of my 
experience is in restoring 1920s
evening dresses. When I am working on one section, more sections are
always coming apart.
Having said that, I want to buy strands of (washable and dry cleanable)
fine glass beads I can couch onto a project, meaning the thread for the
strands has to be of permanent quality, not just beads strung together
for sale.  Where can I buy them?
Fran
Lavolta Press
Books on historic clothing
www.lavoltapress.comwww.facebook.com/LavoltaPress
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[h-cost] queen anne and the Gilded Age

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Researching a costume for Letitia Penn (1668/1745) I had an epiphany last eve 
to discover the remarkable likeness with the popular gowns of 1690,s and the 
bustle styles of the gilded Age! I somehow never noticed this before!
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Re: [h-cost] Plastic stays for Doll Costume

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

For corsets, I use round toothpics. Collars and such, I find plastic casings 
for most store wrapped 
items? (from needles to hairbrushes). great.. My dolls?for historical ?costumes 
ate 14/16".? The toothpics work out just right for scale. Popscile sticks ar
e just right for busks.? They are easily cut and can be 'carved' for detail.
Working with this size doll, Hunniset patterns as drawn, and also Fran 
Grimble's patterns are mostly the same scale...for 19th and 20th C clothing.
?I jigger Waugh, Hunniset and Grimble for the right shape of the period you are 
working on
.
? -Original Message-
From: "Sharon Collier" 
Sent 11/30/2011 5:30:48 PM
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: [h-cost] Plast.
ic stays for Doll CostumeI've forgotten who the original poster of this thread 
was, so I'm just
making a new post.
As I was reading the latest, I had a brain wave. What about using hot melt
glue strips? If you make strips on glass, it comes off easily (under water,
if I remember correctly). The strips will be flat on one side. Hot melt is
malleable, so I'm not sure if these would be too soft, but it's easy and
worth a try.
Sharon C.
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Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

We have quite forgotten the Handkercheif as an important accessory for the 
bride of this time period...and most appropriate for a bride in a home setting. 
they were often heirlooms and might feature exquisite lace from the previous 
century. One might also see fans prominent in French or English illustrations. 
This was also a period when ribbons were a favor.? I am recalling an article 
seen this past spring of ribbon nosegays that were worked with laces for a 
competition (now where, where, where!).Perhaps it was Piecework...The June 
issue of the last three years has featured heirloom treasures of lace; many 
forms have been forgotten...
of
-Original Message-
From: "Elena House" 
Sent 11/25/2011 11:24:28 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 
11:22 PM, Elena House  wrote:
> ?I could swear I've run across several sets of
> how-to-make-artificial-flowers instructions in Victorian ephemera of
> the sort your characters might be likely to have run across, although
> I'm not enough of a masochist to try to hunt them down now... =}
...And I just noticed the 1830 bit, so ignore the Victorian part,
please!  Still, it seems like a skill that wouldn't be too outlandish
to find locally--maybe the sister-in-law has a milliner friend.
-E House
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Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

My referrences make note that "winter weddings' were not the usual 
thing...partly because of travel restrictions dominted by the weather. Private 
ceremonies might have occurred in special circumstances, but were usually 
family, and private, with a larger celebration in more clement weather.
Mid Spring weddings were planned before Planting and Mowing; likewise, late 
summer and fall weddings took place after harvest . May and 0ctober were often 
the favored dates. Consider the heating of a church or hall as a problem? in 
the cold weather...Marriage records tend to support Spring and Summer, or early 
Fall as the better choice. 
t
For assessories, Prayer book, sprig of greenery (seasonally symbolic), small 
basket? or nosegay selected by the groom,, of live flowers,?was the expected 
thing.? If you can find a history of the various traditional elements of the 
bridal occasion, you might get some other ideas. You have ot mentioned whether 
your "wedding" is country or city...That too would make a difference in the 
style of the bride and ceremony. Do consider that 'white weddings,were not the 
expected until at least mid Century, and then a formal event (in Church) was 
the usual occasion of white...if one could afford it. A Wedding dress for the 
less class was usually the best dress of 'her' life and probably would not be 
white by choice since it would have to be used for many occasions.Hi List,
I am writing about a winter wedding in 1830 New England. What might a
bride carry in lieu of a bouquet? My fuzzy California brain remembers/
guesses something like "bittersweet," which I assume is a woody herb?
It might be imported orange blossoms, but I think those are later.
In need of floral costuming,
== Marjorie Wilser
=:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:
"Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement." --MW
http://3toad.blogspot.com/
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Re: [h-cost] 1845 button closure -- front or back?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

In my study of bifurcated garments, I found illustrations and text showing 
panteletts as early as 1806.? The Rappites used a tunic and full bottomes 
trouser costume for women at New Harmony, Ia. in the 1820s.? Other reformed 
groups also had variations of this style. After the Seneca Meeting in the 
1840's reforming groups of the Women's Movement (1845/1860's) adopted the 
fashion as practical and economical, (Amelia Bloomer and friends( When the 
costume continues to be notorious, there is a split among the reforming women 
about the idea of women wearing trousers (a Man's garment) and many returned to 
conventional Style. For those who had become used to the idea of having their 
legs covered, they relegated the garment to underwear. The bifurcated version 
became 'two' as more practical for necessity under long gowns and petticoats.
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 8/11/2011 11:31:34 AM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1845 button closure -- front or back?
Were drawers worn as early as 1845
**
Oh yes. But remember, they were two separate legs sewn to one waistband... the 
crotch seam isn't sewn up until later in the century.
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Re: [h-cost] Scaled drawings of original garments

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I have used the patterns for hats a 'smalls' with good success.
Kathleen
-Original Message-
From: "Joan Jurancich" 
Sent 8/8/2011 4:19:12 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scaled drawings of original garmentsAt 11:02 AM 8/8/2011, 
you wrote:
Two other sources of scaled drawings:
The Workwoman's Guide (reprint of 1838 edition)
Alcega's "Tailor's Pattern Book" (reprint of 1589 edition)
Joan Jurancich
joa...@surewest.net
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Re: [h-cost] Scaled drawings of original garments

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Thank you Fran for telling this bit!? When I first began trying to reproduce 
costume of historical periods over 40 years ago, none of this theory was 
available. I studied the extant pics and mated them with contemporary patterns 
that tended the similar pattern shapes to achieve the style and lines of the 
Historical.? What a process for learning!?Your improved method of of 
deciphering the complicated multi shape early patterns has improved the craft 
expectations exceedingly!? But?I have also experienced the difficulties of 
trying to fit the historical pattern to the modern body. One of the problems of 
making a dress from 'McCanns wonderful researched designs is that the bodice is 
too long for the proportion of top and bottom of the garment.? This is an aesthe
tic problem and not based on measure.
Your approach of using the measuring techniques for the original patterns help 
to keep the recreated garments more in line with both fit and fashionable shape.
was avaialableFrom: "Lavolta Press" 
Sent 8/8/2011 4:34:40 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scaled drawings of original garments
On 8/8/2011 1:19 PM, Joan Jurancich wrote:
> At 11:02 AM 8/8/2011, you wrote:
> Two other sources of scaled drawings:
>
> The Workwoman's Guide (reprint of 1838 edition)
> Alcega's "Tailor's Pattern Book" (reprint of 1589 edition)
>
The drawings in those are not to true mathematical scale, therefore not
suitable for the original poster's stated purpose of teaching people to
scale up a graphed/gridded pattern.  You can photocopy transparent graph
paper onto a pattern that is at true scale, but where the publisher did
not supply a graph/grid on the page itself. But if the scale is not
mathematically true, then scaling up does not produce an accurate
pattern for the human body.  Likewise, the patterns printed in Godey's
and Peterson's are not drawn to any true mathematical scale. (That is,
not until they started issuing full-size tissue patterns with the
magazines, which of course were not scaled but human size.)
I believe the patterns in The Workwoman's Guide were designed to be used
by drafting with a combination of body measurements (or for household
linens, the size of the table, pillow, or whatever) and the width of the
cloth itself. They are mostly for body and household linens. Alcega's
book was designed primarily to teach tailors to do layouts of pattern
pieces on the cloth in the most economical way.  I believe the early,
printed-in-the-magazine Godey's and Peterson's patterns (which are
pretty rough) were used primarily as style guidelines. Someone who had
the skill could use them to draw the desired style directly on the cloth
using the wearer's measurements. However, I suspect most dressmakers,
even many professionals, used as basic bodice patterns either a bodice
that already fitted the wearer well, or one of the many Victorian
"charts"/slopers that could be traced off in a variety of sizes,
whatever was needed at the time. The bodice was the hardest part to fit,
but once someone had a well-fitting bodice they could copy variations in
the neckline, trimmings, or whatever from Godey's or Peterson's.
Fran
Lavolta Press
Books of historic clothing patterns
www.lavoltapress.com
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Re: [h-cost] Scaled drawings of original garments

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

A FG fan club member:? Thanks Fran for your carefully scaled patterns.? I have 
used them successfully for myself and for my "Costumes in Miniature"? The scale 
works both ways!
Kathleen
-Original Message-
From: "Lavolta Press" 
Sent 8/8/2011 3:46:49 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scaled drawings of original garments
On 8/8/2011 11:02 AM, Carol Kocian wrote:
>
> Blanche Payne has scale drawings of patterns. Her History of Costume
> book is where I first started back in college.  :-)
Me too, but the scaled diagrams are only in the first edition.
I put scaled diagrams in my books Reconstruction Era Fashions, and both
volumes of Fashions of the Gilded Age.
Other books with scaled diagrams include:
Baumgarten, Linda and John Watson. /Costume Close-Up: Clothing
Construction and Pattern 1750-1790./ New York: Costume & Fashion Press,
1999.
Burnham, Dorothy K. /Cut My Cote./ Toronto: Royal Ontario Museum, 1973.
Burnston, Sharon Ann./Fitting & Proper: 18th-Century Clothing from the
Collection of the Chester County Historical Society. /Texarkana:
Scurlock Publishing Co., 1998.
Countryman, Ruth S. and Elizabeth Weiss Hopper. /Women's Wear of the
1920's./ Studio City: Players Press, 1998.
Countryman, Ruth S. and Elizabeth Weiss Hopper. /Women's Wear of the
1930's./ Studio City: Players Press, 2001.
Gehret, Ellen J. /Rural Pennsylvania Clothing./ York: Liberty Cap Books,
1976.
Wright, Merideth. /Put on Thy Beautiful Garments: Rural New England
Clothing, 1783--1800./ East Montpelier: The Clothes Press,
1990.Reprinted by Dover Publications as/Everyday Dress of Rural America,
1783--1800./
Fran
Lavolta Press
Books of historic clothing patterns
www.lavoltapress.comwww.facebook.com/LavoltaPress
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Re: [h-cost] Edwardian Bodice Closure

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Guessing from my collection, an inner front closing bodice that is worked into 
the side seams...sort of like a partlet...front only. I also have seen net 
chemisetts that cover front and back with side ties. Both have high collars. 
The gown bodice then fastens on the left side from shoulder to waist, under arm.
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 7/29/2011 3:58:52 AM
To: "h-costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] Edwardian Bodice ClosureI am working on an article from 1902. 
 The dresses are for elderly women.
The article refers to a bodice with a Duchess front closing.  What is this?
Penny Ladnier, owner
The Costume Gallery Websites
 www.costumegallery.com
15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
FaceBook:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579
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Re: [h-cost] Academic Dress

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

What is your specific quiry? Like uniforms, the various robes and garments are 
particular to the various institutions that were required for students to 
wear.? When it comes to modern day garb, these garments may be eclectic 
according to the institutions requiring them for ceremonies. The stoles and 
hoods are now regulated somewhat to be reprsentative of specific 
universities/colleges re school colors and disciplines.
-Original Message-
From: "Susan B. Farmer" 
Sent 7/23/2011 12:08:25 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] Academic DressI'm looking for information on Academic Dress 
-- and I turned to
Davenport -- they have the nice section on Clerical Dress.
The appendix lists several figures: 323, 594-596, 1560-1578, and 1759.
1561-1578 are Academic Gowns as is 1759. 323 and 594-596, however, are
clearly *NOT* academic regalia (nor are they identified as such in the
captions or text).
Was there ever a set of corrections for the figures in Davenport? Does
anybody know what those correct figures might be?
Thanks!
Susan/ Jerusha
--
Susan Farmer
sfar...@goldsword.com
Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
Division of Science and Math
http://www.abac.edu/sfarmer/http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
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Re: [h-cost] 1840s question

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

The underbodice or lining was custom fitted and the outer fabric overlaid 
("upholstered"). Comments on construction can be found in Godey's and ?Peterson 
re this method.? Two of the dresses I had in my collection for the period bare 
this out: 1) to save on the outer fabric, especially when trying to control 
plaids and stripes and 2) prevent extra buldging.? One will also find some 
light padding in the underarm area for?'filling out' for the jeurne fils, or 
less endowed'
?-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 6/26/2011 1:58:23 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1840s question
The bodices seem to all be
quilted or very fitted for each lady.
They are pleated or gathered to a tight fitting lining up to the bust area and 
then the pleats release. Bodices in this period are often boned, certainly down 
the CF (keeps the point down) but also at the sides and inbetween.
A friend who collects period gowns has several with major boning all over. 
Thick, like 1/4" thick, whalebone. This is all worn with a corset.
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Re: [h-cost] Historic Doll Clothes Patterns; WAS Carol Burnett's Curtain Dress

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

There are three paperdoll books and some patterns, additionally.? Also a 
'travel series' of young women heading off to the city for employment (Amanda, 
the next generation?)? The patterns are quite good for period clothing in 
miniature.? I did use the riding dress pattern "blown up" for a costume, having 
compared it to one in a 19th C reprint for that garment.
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 5/23/2011 3:17:59 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Historic Doll Clothes Patterns; WAS Carol Burnett's Curtain 
DressThink I found them--the Amanda series, published by Texas Tech University 
Press:
http://ttupress.org/_product_93964/Amanda_Series_Doll_Clothing_Patterns_(paper,_pattern)
Ann Wass
-Original Message-
From: penn...@costumegallery.com
To: 'Historical Costume' 
Sent: Mon, May 23, 2011 12:38 pm
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Carol Burnett's Curtain Dress
Laurie,
Were the books based on the Texas area in the 19th Century?  I believe it
as Texas Tech who published the books.
Penny Ladnier, owner
he Costume Gallery Websites
ww.costumegallery.com
5 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
aceBook:
ttp://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579
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Re: [h-cost] the tambour embroidered regency dress i made last year

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

The rendering of this dress is soo beautiful! Congratulations!
-Original Message-
From: "Wicked Frau" 
Sent 5/16/2011 1:17:32 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] the tambour embroidered regency dress i made last 
yearGreat to hear from you again.  Lovely work (as usual!)
Sg
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Leif og Bjarne Drews <
drews...@post12.tele.dk> wrote:
> Thanks for all your welcomes. I am glad you accept me here again.
> Here is my webpage with the tambour embroidered dress that almost killed me
> :-)
> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/empire.htm
>
> Bjarne
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Re: [h-cost] the tambour embroidered regency dress i made last year

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I am happy to see this dress from another museum. My present 'heart and hand' 
project is an interpretation of a similar embroidered gown in the Costume 
Institute of the Metropolitan, NY. I have chosen to interpret the florals with 
embroidery and applique.? The original is dated 1798, probably European, Indian 
mull. I found the fabric at Dharma.con; the garlands are ribbon laurels and the 
flowers are beaded crochet from vintage sari trim from India. Very delicate and 
fine workmanship. While not an exact copy as yours are usually, I think the 
finished gown still captures the simplicity of the original. I made my pattern 
from Nora Waugh for the gown itself.
.
-Original Message-
From: "Leif og Bjarne Drews" 
Sent 5/15/2011 2:17:37 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] the tambour embroidered regency dress i made last 
yearForgot to mention that i had a lot of bad issues with the drawing of the
flowers because number 2 motif had a fold at the exhibition, i could not se
e
the whole motif. And i asked the museum for help, but i could not get help,
even that it was another museum who wanted me to make it. Also it has becom
e
much more difficult to study at their collections. In a few years ago, i
was always welcome to come out and examine their collections, now you have
to write to them first, explain what it is you want to study and why, and
then maybe, you are lucky to get an appointment.
The lighting out there was so bad also, that i could not tell exactly the
collours of the flowers, so i had a really high resolution picture wich i
baught from the museum. I had to send the picture back, when i finnished,
but i have copyed it on my computer.
I regret now, that i didnt go more often to study when i could.
Bjarne
-Oprindelig meddelelse-
From: Leif og Bjarne Drews
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:00 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] the tambour embroidered regency dress i made last year
Hi Genie,
The regency dress was made of cotton voill? and embroidered with DMC cott
on
threads, no beads was used.
It was tambour embroidered. The original dress, you can see here:
http://tidenstoej.natmus.dk/periode1/dragt.asp?ID=76
I was out at the museum several times to study, the original dress was made
from cotton and the embroidery was silk.
I tryed hard to tambour with my silk floss threads, but the thread snagged
all the time, so i had to make it in cotton.
Bjarne
-Oprindelig meddelelse-
From: Genie Barrett
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:01 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] the tambour embroidered regency dress i made last year
Bjarn, I can't tell, did you use any beads?
Is the fabric cotton or linen?
Beautiful, as always.
Genie
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Re: [h-cost] 1st White Wedding Dress Trend: Anne of Brittany orQueen Victoria

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

As always, h-costume continues to add punctuation that is not in th original.
Sigh!
-Original Message-
From: "R Lloyd Mitchell" 
Sent 5/10/2011 8:34:47 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1st White Wedding Dress Trend: Anne of Brittany orQueen 
VictoriaIf Anne?of Britanny chose White for her wedding, I have seen no further
historical referrences about other women choosing the color for their
ceremony?...hence, no vogue?of white having any cache for a proper wedding
ceremony. At that date (Anne's) weddings were probably no so
public...except for royalty. What ever color or fabric, it would have had
cost and politics pointing the way toward correctness.
By the time of Victoria there were additional psychological and moral,
symbolic reasons behind Her choices to have a white wedding.??This choice
was the veiled motivation for the idea of a white wedding for many decades
hence.?Royal brides for a long time before V. chose (or were garbed) in
fabled fabrics of gold or silver as a declaration of wealth and power. Her
choice put the emphasis on virginity and respectabilty...something that
women of almost any class standard could hope to emmulate. White, and Lace
were? more in the province of people of means, but the principle could be
shared.
The white dress, however harkens back to a 'shift' that was owned by most
women-high or low, as the transition garment between her house and her
husband's home...
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Re: [h-cost] 1st White Wedding Dress Trend: Anne of Brittany orQueen Victoria

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

If Anne?of Britanny chose White for her wedding, I have seen no further 
historical referrences about other women choosing the color for their 
ceremony?...hence, no vogue?of white having any cache for a proper wedding 
ceremony. At that date (Anne's) weddings were probably no so public...except 
for royalty. What ever color or fabric, it would have had cost and politics 
pointing the way toward correctness.
By the time of Victoria there were additional psychological and moral, symbolic 
reasons behind Her choices to have a white wedding.??This choice was the veiled 
motivation for the idea of a white wedding for many decades hence.?Royal brides 
for a long time before V. chose (or were garbed) in fabled fabrics of gold or 
silver as a declaration of wealth and power. Her choice put the emphasis on 
virginity and respectabilty...something that women of almost any class standard 
could hope to emmulate. White, and Lace were? more in the province of people of 
means, but the principle could be shared.
The white dress, however harkens back to a 'shift' that was owned by most 
women-high or low, as the transition garment between her house and her 
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Re: [h-cost] Lark Rise to Candleford

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I find it interesting that the Russian peasant shirts of somewhat the same 
period have this off-center fastening...
-Original Message-
From: "Franchesca" 
Sent 5/9/2011 12:17:15 PM
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lark Rise to CandlefordSweet! Thank you so much! :)
I will have fun with this one and create from the top of my head then.
Hopefully I will find the contact info for the costumer and see what they
have to suggest. :)
Franchesca
: -Original Message-
: From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-
: boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com
: Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 8:23 AM
: To: Historical Costume
: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lark Rise to Candleford
:
: Ok, I didn't need that distraction, but I thank you for it anyway! Guess
what
: I'll be watching over the summer.
:
: Franchesca, have a look at this video, and skip to about 3:15:
:
: 
:
: I was hoping for shots of the lower half, but didn't see any in this clip.
The
: bodice does not open in the back, but I don't think the buttons on the
bodice
: are functional.
:
: Link posted by Viv:
:
: 
:
: They don't appear to be under tension here, and there's no hint of
: buttonholes.
: It might close with hidden hooks and eyes, but I see no reason why not to
go
: with functioning buttons.
:
: If you want to copy this for modern wear, I can imagine starting with a
: strapless princess-seam dress with sweetheart neckline, and modifying.
:
:
:
:
: Claudine
:
:
:
: - Original Message 
: > From: SPaterson 
: > To: Historical Costume 
: > Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 3:51:37 AM
: > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lark Rise to Candleford
: >
: > The dress has a delightful bustle or back sweep on the skirt  - - I
suggest
: >watching the series and freeze framing pics of Dorcas - it is available
on You
: >Tube  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4gsD78eahg  - or writing the
: costume
: >designer :)
: >
: > Sarah Paterson
: >
: > - Original Message - >I just  love it!
: > >
: > > What pattern out there similar to this? I mean, this  is the kind of
thing I
: > > would wear to the office if I could make it.  :)
: > >
: > > Franchesca
: > >
: > >
:
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Re: [h-cost] Lark Rise to Candleford

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I have a couple of items this style; one has functional buttons and the other 
uses snaps.
Kathleen
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 5/9/2011 11:22:45 AM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lark Rise to CandlefordOk, I didn't need that 
distraction, but I thank you for it anyway! Guess what
I'll be watching over the summer.
Franchesca, have a look at this video, and skip to about 3:15:

I was hoping for shots of the lower half, but didn't see any in this clip. The
bodice does not open in the back, but I don't think the buttons on the bodice
are functional.
Link posted by Viv:

They don't appear to be under tension here, and there's no hint of buttonholes.
It might close with hidden hooks and eyes, but I see no reason why not to go
with functioning buttons.
If you want to copy this for modern wear, I can imagine starting with a
strapless princess-seam dress with sweetheart neckline, and modifying.
Claudine
- Original Message 
> From: SPaterson 
> To: Historical Costume 
> Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 3:51:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lark Rise to Candleford
>
> The dress has a delightful bustle or back sweep on the skirt  - - I suggest
>watching the series and freeze framing pics of Dorcas - it is available on You
>Tube  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4gsD78eahg  - or writing the costume
>designer :)
>
> Sarah Paterson
>
> - Original Message - >I just  love it!
> >
> > What pattern out there similar to this? I mean, this  is the kind of thing I
> > would wear to the office if I could make it.  :)
> >
> > Franchesca
> >
> >
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Re: [h-cost] 1830's fashion

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I recently got a copy of "The Rise and Fall of the Sleeve (Scottish museum pub) 
that has pics from all the mags of that period.? Also, publications relating to 
the Lowell Mills have much info and some pics.
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 5/3/2011 7:25:50 AM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830's fashionGoday's Lady's magazine starts in the 
1830's in Philadelphia I believe.
Here's a link
http://www.accessible.com/accessible/aboutGL.jsp
But fashion plates don't always get the idea of what real people are wearing 
(just like today) so it's good to look at the real thing. There are fine 
examples of real gowns in that big thick book of fashion exhibits by the Kyoto 
Museum. (Is it just called "Fashion"? I can't remember) Here's a lovely walking 
gown at the Met Museum in NYC scroll about halfway down the page:
http://knot-cha-cha.blogspot.com/2011_01_01_archive.html
And I always like to see what the gowns look like in movement, on a person. So 
I'll look at something in film or TV that is well designed remembering they 
are costumes not actual gowns of course. BBC did a miniseries of "Wives and 
Daughters" which is in the 1830's. Check that out.
-Original Message-
From: e...@huskers.unl.edu 
To: Historical Costume 
Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 2:10 am
Subject: [h-cost] 1830's fashion
A friend is looking for sources on 1830's fashion, specifically in Washington,
DC (if that ends up being relevant), and I'm rather out of my depth.
What are the best sources for that era?  What would you recommend to someone who
isn't a costume historian but would like to get the details right in a
description?
Emma
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Re: [h-cost] kate's wedding dress skirt

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

The skirt is similar ro rhe Margret Rose gown; wonder if there was anything 
published about it?
kathleen
-Original Message-
From: "Patricia Dunham" 
Sent 5/3/2011 6:46:11 AM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] kate's wedding dress skirtis the part of the dress I'm 
interested in.  Anybody have any ideas on how the pleating at the side of the 
waist and in back interacts with the welt seaming (?) between the skirt panels? 
 OR any educated guessing on if or when there might be a real commercial 
pattern available for this exact dress, not just some knock-off designer's 
version?
thanks much!
chimene  (who is hard at work compiling a folder of pics to work from, if worst 
comes to worst and I have to figure it out for myself, 8-))
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Re: [h-cost] least favorite hat

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Thinking of starting a Bad Hat Society...
Kathleen
-Original Message-
From: "Katy Bishop" 
Sent 5/3/2011 6:47:30 AM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] least favorite hatI thought the hat should have had a 
portrait of the happy couple in
the frame below the bow.
Katy
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:50 AM, Sharon Collier  wrot
e:
> I swear, it looked like nothing other than one of those plastic, molded b
its
> from the 1970's, that were painted gold and were used as wall decoration.
> Specifically, an oval picture frame with molded bow. I think my great aunt
> had one, or something very close, on her wall. It was hideous there, too.
> On a related note, people were saying her raccoon eye makeup looked awful,
> too. I saw a bit on TV, filmed before the wedding, in which Diane Sawyer
was
> interviewing the hat designer, and who should drop by, but Princess
> Beatrice. Without makeup, just casually dressed. She was looked lovely.
> Sharon C.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
> Behalf Of Danielle Nunn-Weinberg
> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 11:58 PM
> To: Historical Costume
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] least favorite hat
>
> Yes, I have to concur, I forgot to mention that one. ?LOL! ?I can't d
ecide
> if it was an alien trying to eat her head, or coming out of her head.
> Either that, or she decided she wanted to pay tribute to/compete with the
> trees in the Abbey ? ?The colour didn't do her any favou
rs
> either, the grandmothers at my husband's brother's wedding wore colours l
ike
> that, only with more sequins and beads...(which probably couldn't have ma
de
> it any worse).
>
> Cheers,
> Danielle
>
> At 06:07 PM 4/29/2011, you wrote:
>>Well then. My least favorite hat, of the ones I was able to see well,
>>was HRH Beatrice's-- I think! The one wearing pink, with the odd
>>vertical sculpture on it. ?Yeesh. You'd think she'd have noticed it
>>wasn't flattering. Or perhaps they didn't give her a 360 mirror.
>>
>>Feathers, I can live with. But that thing was just plain odd. Her blue
>>sister's hat was simply unfortunate; but the pink one was an oddity.
>>
>> ? ? == Marjorie Wilser
>>
>>=:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:=
>>
>>"Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement."
>>--MW
>>
>>http://3toad.blogspot.com/
>
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--
Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
katybisho...@gmail.com? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? www.VintageVictorian.com
? ?? Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
? ? ? Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.
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[h-cost] weddinf stuff

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

First off: either my computer or H-costume is adding odd punctuation.? Forgive 
me.
...
Either I missed it or somehow this book never came up for view as seen in the 
collection of the Cincinnati Art Museum: "Wedded Perfection"??The history of 
the social aspects of weddings and the pictorial evidence of US?style is so 
poignant in the review and commentary by Cynthia Amneus. (saw the refference in 
"Piece Work")? Check it out!
Kathleen
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Re: [h-cost] pouting about R. Wedding coverage

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Seeing the gown exhibit and additional past coverage' I was struck with the 
similarity to the?Princess Rose gown, but with?a yoke and sleeves of lace.? 
Nice tie- in with the laces on the other royal wedding gowns.? The?simplicity 
of the design struck me as a choice she might have made Anyway as a common 
bride.?Class act.
Kathleen
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 4/29/2011 11:09:53 AM
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] pouting about R. Wedding coverageCNN had live coverage 
since midnight EST.  I am in a hotel and we brought
our VCR to tape it.  My husband woke up at 4 am panicked because he set the
VCR up incorrectly.  Thank goodness he woke up to fix the problem.  I
believe CNN is repeating it tonight.
As for Kate's dress...I have seen several of this style wedding dresses from
the 1940s.  I own one without the slit neckline.  I have one or two original
1940s wedding photos with this style dress.  Fashion repeating itself AGAIN.
Penny Ladnier, owner
The Costume Gallery Websites
www.costumegallery.com
15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
FaceBook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579
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Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I have
?just received copies of Fashion in Jane Austin's Time and catalogue of the new 
Napolianic fashion exhibit.? Both have pics from Bon Temps and many of the 
illustrations show couples as you have described. You might find your quest in 
these.
kathleen?
-Original Message-
From: "Sharon Collier" 
Sent 4/18/2011 3:29:03 AM
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic periodI found this when I did a 
Google search. www.blakeneymanor.com Maybe the
pictures were taken from this book:
"All images and text from The Mode In Costume by R. Turner Wilcox, Charles
Scribner's Sons, New York, 1958"
Sharon C.
-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Laurie Taylor
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:54 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period
Good evening,
Ok, so it's almost midnight and I'm plugging away on a project that I really
don't need finished until Fall.  It's what I'm in the mood for though, so
here I am, up too late and probably too tired to think clearly!
I am looking for an image, probably of a man and a women - maybe a fashion
sketch, maybe a painting, maybe something else...
He is wearing a clawhammer tail coat, aka dress coat.  She is wearing a
Redingote gown.  That is all I have.
I would have seen this image in a Costume History class in 1987-88, during
the lecture and again on one of the exams.  On that exam, we were shown the
image and asked to identify the Period, approx. date, country, Key Garment
and Key Accessory/Garment.  On my copy of the test, I got full credit for
Romantic, 1815-1848, England/France, Clawhammer tailcoat, Redingote gown.
>From that answer, I drew my conclusion that this picture would have been of
a man and a woman.
If you're a costume history image fanatic, or a Romantic period fanatic, and
this strikes a cord with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on images that
might fit this description.  It's not critical or urgent, but it will
probably drive me crazy with wondering! LOL
Laurie T.
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Re: [h-cost] 1920s Fashion Film Footage

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I thought the view of the ladies playing with fox cubs "in your arms; maybe 
someday around your neck" was sweet!
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 4/15/2011 4:59:04 AM
To: "h-costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] 1920s Fashion Film FootageActual 1920s film footage on how to 
cut and style a bob hairstyle. It is at
minute 2:39 in the video...lots of ladies' fashion and shoes in this one!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pwG-kRi0-Y

&feature=related
Penny Ladnier, owner
The Costume Gallery Websites
 www.costumegallery.com
15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
FaceBook:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579
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Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Home sew Does have it in black and white#HE122.? Even at Greenberg& 
Hammer..(Sigh) This($3.95) was the going price and seldom discounted. The code 
name seems to be 'lacing tape'.
(Please excuse extra punctuation.. this is a quirk with h-costume and my posts)
Kathleen.
-Original Message-
From: "R Lloyd Mitchell" 
Sent 3/24/2011 10:49:59 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questionsHomesew/newark has 
it! I think in black and white.
Kathleen?
-Original Message-
From: "Purple Kat" 
Sent 3/24/2011 3:46:31 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questionsI have a
friend who is looking for lacing eye tape..
the stuff that looks like the eye part of hook & eye sets. Not the stuff
that looks like eyelets.
she needs 1 yard of black.
She has found it on-line for approx $3.50/yd (+$5 S&H) 1 week shipping.
we are looking for cheaper and faster.
help???
Katheryne
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Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Some costumes from this period do not bear hip?ruffles well. Having a trim fit 
over the hips is really better body support.? If the foundation garment has 
these included with the 'flare' at the bottom of the corset and the wearer does 
not have the flesh support beneath to take up the flack...you end up with extra 
fabric that may show up through the outer garment.
Kathleen
.. .
-Original Message-
From: "Sharon Collier" 
Sent 3/24/2011 3:10:49 PM
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questionsI'm showing my 
ignorance here, but I want to learn so...
Why use gores at all? Why not just incorporate that extra bit into the main
panel of the corset, as an extra "flared" bit on the end?
Sharon C.
-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of albert...@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:37 AM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
I am >>> specifically
>>> hoping to find Victorian era corset patterns with hip and/or bust >>>
gores.
One of my fave corset patterns of all time is Past Pattern's # 708 "1845
-1860".
http://www.pastpatterns.com/708.html
I find it works for 1820's to early 1870's The pattern is lightly boned but
I have added bones between the bones on the pattern and one could add more.
The shape is divine!
After the late 1860's, early 1870's you'll need another more rigid shape. A
pattern like Past Pattern's #213.
http://www.pastpatterns.com/213.html
These should do until you come to the "straight front" corset of the early
1900's. This is where Past Patterns and I part ways. DO NOT GET their
pattern #106
http://www.pastpatterns.com/106.html
It is NOT what is illustrated on the front and the patter requires so much
tweaking that you might as well start from scratch. Hate it!
-
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Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Homesew/newark has it! I think in black and white.
Kathleen?
-Original Message-
From: "Purple Kat" 
Sent 3/24/2011 3:46:31 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questionsI have a friend who 
is looking for lacing eye tape..
the stuff that looks like the eye part of hook & eye sets. Not the stuff
that looks like eyelets.
she needs 1 yard of black.
She has found it on-line for approx $3.50/yd (+$5 S&H) 1 week shipping.
we are looking for cheaper and faster.
help???
Katheryne
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Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Which century are you researching?? I think you can perhaps start?with 
wikipedia if you don't have Waugh, yet. The spoon busk was quite before the 
19th C. so it wouldn't be considered for the Victorian period anyway.? If you 
mean to be historical, I think the "wheel" has already been invented for the 
common man (woman).
Kathleen, who has been there already
.
-Original Message-
From: "michaeljdeib...@gmail.com" 
Sent 3/24/2011 7:10:43 AM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questionsFirst, that book is 
one of the top ones on my wish list! Perhaps I can scavenge the money for it 
bow that I've a specific reason!
While I'm aiming for Victorian, the style and shape will be geared more towards 
the "average customer" who really wouldn't care if it was early or late 
victorian. It's the hourglass shape, cinching in the waist, while providing 
support and lift and perhaps some cleavage (which would rarely been shown or 
desired to my knowledge in the days the style would be worn!)
But even though I'm aiming for a general "dumb" wearer, I want to have the 
historical aspect influencing the corset. I hope I'm not contradicting myself! 
Dare I say that my vision is a corset that, with the use of different sized 
gores, be sewn to fit a wide range of sizes and be historical accurate enough 
for re-enactors to wear, but suitable for any woman to wear in place of a bra? 
Does that help any?
I do know that I plan on using a straight busk not a spoon, so if my memory 
serves right, that puts me in the earlier eras... But you mentioned that gores 
didn't fully show up till the later eras... Is it possible to breed the two 
together and still work? Thus the research!
Michael Deibert
OAS AAS LLS
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 24, 2011, at 6:45, Carol Kocian  wrote:
> Hi Michael,
>
> What era are you aiming for? Victoria was around for a long time and the 
> "ideal" shape changed through those decades. Gores first show up in the 
> softer corsets of the early 19thC. Having the right shape of the corset makes 
> a difference in the finished look of the outfit.
>
> My favorite book to start is Corsets & Crinolines by Norah Waugh. The pattern 
> drafts are taken from extant corsets, and it's easy to see how the 
> construction and shapes of the pieces affect the resulting shape of the body.
>
> -Carol
>
>
> On Mar 24, 2011, at 5:15 AM, Michael Deibert wrote:
>
>> Good morning everyone!
>>
>> I'm doing some research into corsets, and thought it best to start on here
>> where many of you already have research. While I know a lot regarding
>> corsets, I have two main focuses.
>>
>> The first is regarding corset patterns. I am hoping to develop a corset
>> pattern and thus would like to be able to have as many corset patterns to
>> base it off of as I can. While any corset pattern works, I am specifically
>> hoping to find Victorian era corset patterns with hip and/or bust gores.
>>> From the many companies out there currently selling commercial pattersn,
>> there are few who focus on corsets with gores. I am looking at trying to
>> simplify the process of grading for different sizes, and believe that there
>> might be a way to accomplish this with gored patterns. So if any of you have
>> or know of patterns that I can get, please direct me in that direction!
>> (Remember copyright laws and direct me to where I can find things, rather
>> than just copy and paste.)
>>
>> Second, the little research I've done so far indicates that during the
>> Victorian eras, there were many corset patterns that used gores - yet many
>> of the current commercial patterns focus on those without. Is there a reason
>> for this that anyone might be aware of? Is it easier to fit without gores?
>> Are gored patterns more difficult to make up? Any help in this direction is
>> also a huge plus!
>>
>> Please don't shy away, the more I can accumulate, the better my final
>> pattern shall be once it is ready! Thanks in advance!
>>
>> Michael Deibert
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Re: [h-cost] Authenticity

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Every time this topic of authenticiy rolls around, My general response is to 
read Ann Hollander's "Seeing through Clothes".? Her take on the issue is one of 
the most sensibile and reasonable that I have found...about 40 years ago when I 
was a very green newbie. Hundreds of costumes later, I am even more aware that 
we in the 21st Century can never (well, excepting Bjarne, perhaps) do aught but 
interpret our knowledge and understanding of what the original might really 
have looked like and to replicate it to the best of our own craft and other 
sewing abilities. Sometimes as we attempt to"re-invent the wheel"we might have 
a personal epiphany to comprehend the secrets of treasure we are trying to gain 
for ourselves.
Kathleen...who is still trying her hand at Historical Costume interpretation 
"Cut Down to Size" in miniature.
we might ""-Original Message-
From: "Carol Kocian" 
Sent 3/12/2011 5:08:34 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] Authenticity> - Where do we draw the line between what is 
acceptable as
> historically accurate vs historically authentic?
> - With modern sewing skills and fads (such as zippers), where do we
> encorporate those skills to aid in construction of period garments,
> or do we insist on using the period methods?
Historic activities run the gamut from immersion reenactment to a
town's "history days" event, with different expectations and
requirements for different events. Sometimes someone will ask a
discussion list if something is OK, when really that decision is up
to the event organizers or the leadership of  a particular group.
Where you draw the line is different than where I would draw it, and
it could even be different for the garments in the same outfit.
Absolute authenticity is a moving target, because the more we know,
the more details there are that are harder t0 reach.
That leads into the next question ? where to substitute modern
skills. When more labor-intensive methods are used, for example hand
stitching, custom weaving, hand-knitting and the like, the potential
for clients gets smaller. Some of these methods become a labor of
love, a desire to learn a technique for its own sake.
All costume, including the broader sense that all clothing is
costume, is a deliberate effort to communicate something to the rest
of the world. Appearance is important, the outermost layer. Some
groups have the standard of hand stitching for visible seams, but
machine sewn is ok for interior construction ? for eras before the
sewing machine was around. Underpinnings do make a difference in how
the costume looks from the outside, but how much does it matter that
the corset looks right, as long as it gives the right shaping. But
once you have a reason to show the corset, its appearance becomes
more important.
Beyond that, as above, it starts to depend on personal interest in a
particular technique or a desire to learn the techniques of a
particular era.
-Carol
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Re: [h-cost] History of Costume text?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Fran, I realy appreciate your take and advice on this trend and issue. Given 
the wide scope of researching
?historical costume and puting it together with contemporary interps of?this 
history, having an automatic market out there that will be clamoring to buy the 
designs in Any size does not bode well for a costume business...either in 
selling patterns or ready made clothing..? Anyone who can look at a 
picture/painting and presume to replicate the costume image is dealing with 
more than size, color, fabric. and etc.
Expecting a Class that will allow you to be able to do this is not a real 
prospect
; then you are making Historical Costume just another factory project. Most of 
the costumes that are trying to be faithful copies of originals are/become 
originals in themselves because of the very fact they were designed and 
made?for the individuals who called them forth to begin with.
?kathleen who is always celebrating historical fashion by recreating it in 
miniature...Cut Down To Size?
-Original Message-
From: "Lavolta Press" 
Sent 3/11/2011 5:35:29 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] History of Costume text?> I agree that it is frustrating 
to "waste one's time on something that cannot be worn or sold" but how else can 
they learn the process?
The person who originally posted was planning to teach a *beginning*
sewing class. A great many people want to learn to sew, to custom fit,
and to create patterns, without any intention of entering the
ready-to-wear field. This is as it should be. Not everyone can enter
that field, and not everyone wants to start a small business
manufacturing ready-to-wear. I will not say that everyone can make their
own clothes, even if they have the skills. People have time constraints,
or they lose enthusiasm. But, it is still much more likely that the
person who enters a beginning class can continue to make clothes for
themselves, than it is they will find a job in the industry. Therefore,
a beginning class that accommodates such students will be much more
popular.  And as I pointed out, a class that focuses on ready-to-wear
sewing techniques, like the one I dropped out of because it was bad for
my health, is a course in factory sewing on factory machines. The
instructor actively helped to place students who wanted factory jobs
into factories in the local garment industry (which used to be much more
vital than it is today).  But, not everyone wants to sew on the factory
floor, not to mention most of that work gets outsourced to third-world
countries these days.
> But will force those manufacturers who don't care about size to fix their 
> doing issues and thereby bring the industry back to where it should be. That 
> would be the ideal program of study.
No matter what manufacturers do to sizing, they still will never custom
fit the human body, unless they make clothes on a custom basis. Nor, I
think, will most of them ever use fine seam finishes or do hand sewing
except at the high price ranges.
Remember, this is an e-list that focuses explicitly on making historic
clothing. Of course, the styles, the fit, etc., vary a great deal with
geographic location and historic era, and include garments that are not
fitted, but draped around the body. But, most of us are custom making
clothing, and much of it is for eras where garments are closely fitted,
were custom fitted at the time, and are custom fitted by the people who
make them now. Furthermore, everyone has personal fitting issues and
sometimes these are discussed in great detail. Many people on this list
are making very high-end and elaborate garments, whether unique or
duplicated from period portraits or extant garments. Many of them do
handwork such as hand sewing, embroidery, beading, etc., or they do
spinning, weaving, dyeing, etc. Many list members have been doing all
this for many years and have a high level of expertise in specialized
fields.
I am not saying that it's somehow wrong to make modern clothes or
practice modern mass-manufacturing techniques, but that's not what most
list members are doing. Even though some of them make modern as well as
historic clothes for themselves, that's not the focus of this list.
Fran
Lavolta Press
Books of historic clothing patterns
www.lavoltapress.com
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Re: [h-cost] Pinking machine - was: Has anyone tried any of these on fabric?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I just looked on e-Bay and thnere is a slew of these machines from the 19th and 
20th Centuries..prices...all over!
-Original Message-
From: "R Lloyd Mitchell" 
Sent 2/22/2011 2:53:57 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinking machine - was: Has anyone tried any of these on 
fabric?re the pinking machine, I managed to get two of these on e-Bay...They (at
least mine) are last Q uarter of the 19th Century. They prefer rather firm
(starched) fabric to get a nice crisp flow and edge...much like modern
pinking shears. My biggest problem has been that they should be
sharpened...find a little old 'grinder' who knows how to put an edge on is
the present question.? Trying to persuade a 'saw' man that 'IT' is much
like his usual foremat is another thing. A few years back when this curio
was last introduced, I seem to remember that a couple of folk had the even
earlier version that seemed to be a scalloped 'die cast' that could make
the edge using a taphammer. I think that that form now shows up with the
new and improved rotary cutter that can employ custom discs that will hand
roll the desired edge. I? also found that trying to set up a tension
method for the strip of fabric being run through the roller also helped to
keep the fabric on course, for a nice steady off play of the scalloped
edge.? Have fun.
For those of you who can't quite picture this little machine, think of a
little old?meat grinder without the casing.? The rotary section is set so
that the fabric is fed from the rear between the cutter and a covering
plate and comes out facing towards you as you turn the handle.
Kathleen
-Original Message-
From: "LuAnn Mason" 
Sent 2/22/2011 2:23:20 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinking machine - was: Has anyone tried any of
these on fabric?Brenna, I think it's me, you and Shea, but since she and I
are both north of the Columbia, the wilds of Oregon proper belong to
you!  LOL!
LuAnn who is sewing, sewing, sewing, did I mention I HATE welt
pockets???  Ugh...  I'm not making vests again--ever!
> From: brenna.sh...@comcast.net
> To: h-cost...@indra.com
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:15:57 -0800
> Subject: [h-cost] Pinking machine - was: Has anyone tried any of
these onfabric?
>
> Oh, oh, Anne ...
>
> Take a few pictures of it and post them with a link (can't remember if the
> list will carry attachments...).
>
> Also look it over - there _has_ to be a least one 'manufacturer's plate'
on
> it or maybe it's molded into the body.  If it's molded in and you can't
read
> it well, do a pencil-on-paper rubbing to bring out the sculpting.  :-)
>
> I, for one, would like the info!  :-)
>
> Please and thank you!
>
> Europa von Weber
>   (mundanely stuck in the 'unknown lands' of Oregon...  anybody else out
> here?)
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Irina Moeller" 
> To: "'Historical Costume'" 
> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Has anyone tried any of these on fabric?
>
>
> >I found a cute little hand cranked machine that does the pinking.  I have
> >no
> > idea how old it is but it does the job just fine.
> > Anne
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com
[mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
> > Behalf Of Marjorie Wilser
> > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 4:02 PM
> > To: Historical Costume
> > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Has anyone tried any of these on fabric?
> >
> > Alas, I have not seen any Fiskars/rotary blades that successfully
> > duplicate 18th or 19th C pinking designs. There are approximations,
> > but none exact that I have seen. I've been looking. . . for 20 years!
> >
> > == Marjorie Wilser
> >
> > =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:
> >
> > "Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for
amusement." --MW
> >
> > http://3toad.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 4, 2011, at 10:05 AM, Land of Oz wrote (in part):
> >
> >> The rotary cutters now have blades with designs. I'd think that
> >> would be a lot more likely to work on fabric.
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> > ___
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>
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Re: [h-cost] Pinking machine - was: Has anyone tried any of these on fabric?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

re the pinking machine, I managed to get two of these on e-Bay...They (at least 
mine) are last Q uarter of the 19th Century. They prefer rather firm (starched) 
fabric to get a nice crisp flow and edge...much like modern pinking shears. My 
biggest problem has been that they should be sharpened...find a little old 
'grinder' who knows how to put an edge on is the present question.? Trying to 
persuade a 'saw' man that 'IT' is much like his usual foremat is another thing. 
A few years back when this curio was last introduced, I seem to remember that a 
couple of folk had the even earlier version that seemed to be a scalloped 'die 
cast' that could make the edge using a taphammer. I think that that form now 
shows up with the new and improved rotary cutter that can employ custom discs 
that will hand roll the desired edge. I? also found that trying to set up a 
tension method for the strip of fabric being run through the roller also helped 
to keep the fabric on course, for a nice steady off play of the scalloped 
edge.? Have fun.
For those of you who can't quite picture this little machine, think of a little 
old?meat grinder without the casing.? The rotary section is set so that the 
fabric is fed from the rear between the cutter and a covering plate and comes 
out facing towards you as you turn the handle.
Kathleen
-Original Message-
From: "LuAnn Mason" 
Sent 2/22/2011 2:23:20 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinking machine - was: Has anyone tried any of these on 
fabric?Brenna, I think it's me, you and Shea, but since she and I are both 
north of the Columbia, the wilds of Oregon proper belong to you!  LOL!
LuAnn who is sewing, sewing, sewing, did I mention I HATE welt pockets???  
Ugh...  I'm not making vests again--ever!
> From: brenna.sh...@comcast.net
> To: h-cost...@indra.com
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:15:57 -0800
> Subject: [h-cost] Pinking machine - was: Has anyone tried any of these on 
> fabric?
>
> Oh, oh, Anne ...
>
> Take a few pictures of it and post them with a link (can't remember if the
> list will carry attachments...).
>
> Also look it over - there _has_ to be a least one 'manufacturer's plate' on
> it or maybe it's molded into the body.  If it's molded in and you can't read
> it well, do a pencil-on-paper rubbing to bring out the sculpting.  :-)
>
> I, for one, would like the info!  :-)
>
> Please and thank you!
>
> Europa von Weber
>   (mundanely stuck in the 'unknown lands' of Oregon...  anybody else out
> here?)
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Irina Moeller" 
> To: "'Historical Costume'" 
> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Has anyone tried any of these on fabric?
>
>
> >I found a cute little hand cranked machine that does the pinking.  I have
> >no
> > idea how old it is but it does the job just fine.
> > Anne
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
> > Behalf Of Marjorie Wilser
> > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 4:02 PM
> > To: Historical Costume
> > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Has anyone tried any of these on fabric?
> >
> > Alas, I have not seen any Fiskars/rotary blades that successfully
> > duplicate 18th or 19th C pinking designs. There are approximations,
> > but none exact that I have seen. I've been looking. . . for 20 years!
> >
> > == Marjorie Wilser
> >
> > =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:
> >
> > "Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement." --MW
> >
> > http://3toad.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 4, 2011, at 10:05 AM, Land of Oz wrote (in part):
> >
> >> The rotary cutters now have blades with designs. I'd think that
> >> would be a lot more likely to work on fabric.
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> > ___
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
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Re: [h-cost] pricing guidelines?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Charging what the market will bear is indeed a starting point for reputation 
for you,?and skill learning for your students.? This is somewhat the direction 
I took in 1976 when I started my costume service business.? Once again, make 
sure your out of pocket expenses are being covered...that one took me some time 
to realize how all the small items contributed added up on the profit-loss 
column. You can?'donate' your time and effort, but it shouldn't be a "Goodwill 
profit" . In the long run, I made my profit on volume and repeat 
customers...and when they wanted a first class product, I was first in mind and 
they did not quibble on the difference of cost between costume and Costume!
Good luck as you try to figure out how to do the project for your area.
Kathleen
-Original Message-
From: "Astrida Schaeffer" 
Sent 2/19/2011 12:00:47 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] pricing guidelines?This is a very small for-profit sewing 
school. The sort of thing where I can't really charge what I think I should, 
but it could pay dividends down teh road if I do this.
On Feb 18, 2011, at 10:17 PM, R Lloyd Mitchell wrote:
> At least mmwage for actual hours on the job as well as class prep.? All out 
> of pocket expenses from thread and needles to gas. Then there is the matter 
> of professional? recognition for your expertise. If you start with that, then 
> it should be understood that an additiona fee would be expected for your time 
> and expenses.? Is this a for=profit enterprise or community activity.
> -Original Message-
> From: "Astrida Schaeffer" 
> Sent 2/18/2011 4:02:06 PM
> To: "Historical Costume" 
> Subject: [h-cost] pricing guidelines?Hi--
> I am terrible at pricing my work and time. May I please ask for some advice 
> from you all?
> I've been approached about helping run a week of summer camp focused on 19th 
> c. sewing. I'd bring the girls behind the scenes at a local museum to look at 
> collections, lecture on 19th c. fashion developments, show reproductions for 
> them to try on (already existing, not made for this camp), teach some 
> hands-on techniques. I'm not running the camp, but I'd be one of the main 
> teachers.
> The organizer is asking for pricing and I simply have no idea what to tell 
> her. I'm guessing my daily involvement during the 5 days would be usually 
> about 2-3 hours, however there would be a good deal of prep work I'd be doing 
> ahead of time.
> What say you?
> Many thanks,
> Astrida
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Re: [h-cost] pricing guidelines?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

At least mmwage for actual hours on the job as well as class prep.? All out of 
pocket expenses from thread and needles to gas. Then there is the matter of 
professional? recognition for your expertise. If you start with that, then it 
should be understood that an additiona fee would be expected for your time and 
expenses.? Is this a for=profit enterprise or community activity. 
-Original Message-
From: "Astrida Schaeffer" 
Sent 2/18/2011 4:02:06 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] pricing guidelines?Hi--
I am terrible at pricing my work and time. May I please ask for some advice 
from you all?
I've been approached about helping run a week of summer camp focused on 19th c. 
sewing. I'd bring the girls behind the scenes at a local museum to look at 
collections, lecture on 19th c. fashion developments, show reproductions for 
them to try on (already existing, not made for this camp), teach some hands-on 
techniques. I'm not running the camp, but I'd be one of the main teachers.
The organizer is asking for pricing and I simply have no idea what to tell her. 
I'm guessing my daily involvement during the 5 days would be usually about 2-3 
hours, however there would be a good deal of prep work I'd be doing ahead of 
time.
What say you?
Many thanks,
Astrida
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Re: [h-cost] Exhibition of English wedding dresses since 1780

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

will there be a catalogue for the exhibit?? I have one from an earlier show at 
the Bath Museum that was worth chasing down.
Kathleen
-Original Message-
From: "Tenpin. ma" 
Sent 2/15/2011 6:35:48 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exhibition of English wedding dresses since 1780Got to it 
just fine here. Wow. Wish I could go.
Starr (not in England)
>
> http://www.culture24.org.uk/art/design/fashion+and+costume/art347997
>
> I've tested it by sending it to myself in an e-mail and clicking on the
> link in that, and it came up alright; but, if you still have trouble
> with it, let me know and I'll set out the steps I took to reach it.
>
> Best wishes,
> Linda Walton,
> (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.).
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Re: [h-cost] Robe or train???

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Penny, have you reviewed the Edensandravencroft site for robe description? 
Their use of' 'train' seems to be a fashion description for the length of the 
extension of the cermonial garment. Other sites indicate that Robes are 
connected with Ceremonial events.?
Kathleen
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 2/10/2011 4:58:54 AM
To: "h-costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] Robe or train???I feel so silly asking this question.  I am 
working on photos of coronation
costume photos for Mardi Gras.  I am looking for the correct term to use for
the detachable train (?) worn by the king and queen.   You may view the
questionable piece here:
http://www.costumegallery.com/MardiGras/2010/Mobile/Museum/Queen1/P1100236me
d.jpg  I have checked my costume dictionaries and the "train" definition
seems to fit better than robe.  I have heard it called both ways.  What the
correct word to use?
Penny Ladnier, owner
The Costume Gallery Websites
 www.costumegallery.com
14 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
FaceBook:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579
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Re: [h-cost] Robe or train???

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I think the difference is that trains were detachable extensions to a gown 
(usually women's wear) and that robes were the cermonial "capes" that were part 
of the Royal Regalia.
Kathleen, who is working on Maud's Robe.?
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 2/10/2011 4:58:54 AM
To: "h-costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] Robe or train???I feel so silly asking this question.  I am 
working on photos of coronation
costume photos for Mardi Gras.  I am looking for the correct term to use for
the detachable train (?) worn by the king and queen.   You may view the
questionable piece here:
http://www.costumegallery.com/MardiGras/2010/Mobile/Museum/Queen1/P1100236me
d.jpg  I have checked my costume dictionaries and the "train" definition
seems to fit better than robe.  I have heard it called both ways.  What the
correct word to use?
Penny Ladnier, owner
The Costume Gallery Websites
 www.costumegallery.com
14 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
FaceBook:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579
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Re: [h-cost] Has anyone tried any of these on fabric?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I have some time ago and No for cutting fabric.? However I do like the 
scalloped edge pinking?Fiscars made for fabric...especially nice for 18th C. 
edges.
Kathleen, who is finishing Maud's gown..without such shears
-Original Message-
From: "Lavolta Press" 
Sent 2/3/2011 9:25:56 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] Has anyone tried any of these on 
fabric?http://www.alvinco.com/shopping/family_sale_0_familyid_12030_cat_978_item_1293027097http://www.alvinco.com/shopping/family_sale_0_familyid_12030_cat_978_item_1293007097
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Re: [h-cost] Your family and costuming genes

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

My girls always liked playing in the Shop with their friends and were on easy 
call for public moments.? The 'quiet one' got to be a Wooly Mammouth in "Skin 
of our Teeth" and she did a couple of stints as the Easter Bunny at a local 
mall. Then she joined the "Grundge crowd for a couple of decades. Now becoming 
an "Olde Coot" in Vermont, she makes occasions for the community around her to 
Dress Up for occasions like the Black Fly Festival, the Dinner Cruise (any 
thing that floats) on Sodom Pond, and the valentine Dance.? She's making up for 
time past when she wouldn't dream of looking like the establishment.
Our other daughter enjoyed wearing all the Small Victorian ensembles for my 
Vintage/ Antique fashion shows...always designed her own costumes and such.? 
One of the earliest suggestions to the doting family was donations to the Dress 
up trunk for her growing family.
Kathleen...who still dresses for All occasions.
? -
From: 
Sent 1/20/2011 4:45:13 AM
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: [h-cost] Your family and costuming genesI was re-reading Margo's post 
and it got me to thinking...How many of our
family members are enjoying costuming since we became a member of h-costume?
Or maybe inherited the costuming gene?  If so what kind of costuming?
All my kids like getting into costumes...sometimes for no real reason.   We
were lucky to have inherited my husband's family costume bag.  My
grandchildren go straight to the bag...now totes of costumes to play in when
they visit us.  Their closets are full of their own costumes.  My 5 y.o
granddaughter wears her costumes everywhere...to school, church, the store,
etc.  My 9 y.o. granddaughter has started sewing and is very passionate
about it.
My son, Patrick, is the one who inherited the most costuming genes.  I
didn't know until I saw the playbill but he was designing the costumes for
his high school plays.  He made his first costume for an anime convention
and won an award for construction.  He has worked in the costuming retail
industry for 4 yrs as a manager of Spirits Halloween stores.  This year Pat
went back to college for theater technology.  He has been awarded full
scholarships for college.
Penny Ladnier, owner
The Costume Gallery Websites
www.costumegallery.com
14 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
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Re: [h-cost] historical costume in miniature

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

These were the dolls and historical costumes I started with about 30 years 
ago.? I still consider Worrell to be an adequate source to begin with...Her 
pattern shapes, as a matter of fact, were a springboard to Historical Costume 
for me before all the wonderful Resources we now have. She manages to produce 
the right shape and drape but in a more simplified version than is acceptable 
for the purists among us.?
-Original Message-
From: "susan...@juno.com" 
Sent 1/17/2011 3:37:48 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume in miniatureI have The  Doll Book by 
Estelle Ansley Worrell. It covers costumes from the 17th century to the late 
19th century. The patterns are designed to fit 1/6 scale fashion dolls/Barbie 
dolls (female, male and child sized). She also includes patterns to make cloth 
dolls the size of Barbie dolls. It is out of print; I got it off Ebay, Amazon 
or half.com, I'm not sure which. IIRC, it was about $10.
Susan G
If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it? A. 
Einstein
Pictures of my art
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7845173@N05/
>I tried to google every thing I could think of during my search for Barbie
>in historical dress, but my searches did not find much, with exceptions
>made for a very few one-of-a-kind garments. Lots for 15"-16" dolls.
>Could you give me some links? I'd be interested in seeing the books too,
>just so I know what is out there. I'd love to see your pictures of your
>collection, if you have them somewhere to share?...
Thank you so much for all of your input so far. It has been so great!
Natalie

Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4d34a8fad51dfb62637st03duc
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Re: [h-cost] Historical figures

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I find the scale reasonable...if it is indeed 14/18".? You can still maintain 
detail with 'real patterns'; Small for me is 12" or below (which includes 
'Barbie').? However I have see some doll house dolls (5/6" that have been 
wonderfully rendered.? These dolls usually involve some glue or clothing that 
is sewn on. There is a Smithsonian collection of character dolls of this sort 
that certainly capture the historical periods they represent (About 4") Now 
that is too small to do much but style/shape.
The biggest problem even in the quarter scale is finding patterned fabric, lace 
and other trim that is consistent with the proportian of the doll and style.? 
One can always use plain fabric of a proper weight.___
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Re: [h-cost] historical costume in miniature

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

If you look on ebay you will probably be able to see most of the costumes by 
searching for "Barbie".
-Original Message-
From: "Natalie" 
Sent 1/16/2011 10:17:21 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume in miniatureI was unaware of the 
series of Historical Costumes for Barbie. I have
tried to google every thing I could think of during my search for Barbie
in historical dress, but my searches did not find much, with exceptions
made for a very few one-of-a-kind garments. Lots for 15"-16" dolls.
Could you give me some links? I'd be interested in seeing the books too,
just so I know what is out there. I'd love to see your pictures of your
collection, if you have them somewhere to share?
My intention, to answer Kathleen and Denise's question, is to create
historically accurate clothing for Barbie, within the time and effort
constraints that I currently have. Meaning, I want them to look good, be
reasonably accurate, and have all appropriate layers, but I'm not going
to hand stitch everything nor agonize over fabric choices (too much!)
and will make concessions. I also have to take into consideration that I
have much of my time taken up by 2 boys under 3, so I have limited
sewing time... to make any progress at all, some concessions have to be
made :)
Thank you so much for all of your input so far. It has been so great!
Natalie
On 1/16/2011 9:39 AM, R Lloyd Mitchell wrote:
Since my retirement about three years ago, I have been continuing my interest 
in historical costume by making Costume in miniature; the series is captured in 
a collection I have named "Cut Down to Size."? To date I have recreated style 
and splender for about 120 characters which are modeled for the most part on 
dolls. About the only 'model I have not used is Barbie precisely because the 
form is so ridged. "Oz's suggestion would work well if the model is only to 
wear Costume for this period.? The body would of course have to be rewrapped 
for other periods.
? You are aware?I assume of the series of Historical Costumes for barbie that 
are "out there", including wigs. There are also at least two books of costume 
for contemporary popular dolls that?I know of for this sort of project.? I do 
not use them myself because the patterns are not historically sound.
Kathleen, who is having a ball every day!
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Re: [h-cost] historical costume in miniature

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Yes, I did look at them.? Impressive detail. My method has been to search for 
character with costume, choose a model based on face and maturity (rebuild body 
to be costumed, if necessary) and proceed with fabric, lace and trim,buttons 
jewelry (sometimes fashioned to replicate) wigged to period and character.? I 
amassed a fantastic collection of?an antique inventory of the above from which 
to choose when there is a work in progress. Just now I am working on Queen 
Maud's (Norway, 1906) coronation gown and regalia.? This is a rendering and not 
replication; close enough?for recognition.? I did not want to commit myself to 
two years of beading.
Kathleen?
.. ?coronation gown and regalia-Original Message-
From: "Marjorie Wilser" 
Sent 1/16/2011 11:44:28 AM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume in miniatureKathleen,
Did you get the link to the George Stuart figures? I am wondering what
you thought ;) He doesn't use dolls, he builds his own figures and
sculpts each face separately.
they are very impressive up close. Very.
== Marjorie Wilser
=:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:
"Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement." --MW
http://3toad.blogspot.com/
On Jan 16, 2011, at 6:39 AM, R Lloyd Mitchell wrote:
> Since my retirement about three years ago, I have been continuing my
> interest in historical costume by making Costume in miniature; the
> series is captured in a collection I have named "Cut Down to Size."?
> To date I have recreated style and splender for about 120 characters
> which are modeled for the most part on dolls. About the only 'model
> I have not used is Barbie precisely because the form is so ridged.
> "Oz's suggestion would work well if the model is only to wear
> Costume for this period.? The body would of course have to be
> rewrapped for other periods.
> ? You are aware?I assume of the series of Historical Costumes for
> barbie that are "out there", including wigs. There are also at least
> two books of costume for contemporary popular dolls that?I know of
> for this sort of project.? I do not use them myself because the
> patterns are not historically sound.
> Kathleen, who is having a ball every day!
> ___
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[h-cost] historical costume in miniature

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Since my retirement about three years ago, I have been continuing my interest 
in historical costume by making Costume in miniature; the series is captured in 
a collection I have named "Cut Down to Size."? To date I have recreated style 
and splender for about 120 characters which are modeled for the most part on 
dolls. About the only 'model I have not used is Barbie precisely because the 
form is so ridged. "Oz's suggestion would work well if the model is only to 
wear Costume for this period.? The body would of course have to be rewrapped 
for other periods.
? You are aware?I assume of the series of Historical Costumes for barbie that 
are "out there", including wigs. There are also at least two books of costume 
for contemporary popular dolls that?I know of for this sort of project.? I do 
not use them myself because the patterns are not historically sound.
Kathleen, who is having a ball every day!
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Re: [h-cost] Looking for pattern, 12th century

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Costume for what climate?? My children referances seem to indicate that the 
clothing would be pretty much the same as the adults. Beyond swadling clothes, 
I suspect a basic layette pattern of shift and robe, but shortened to 
accommodate walking woud be a good direction to start with.? Climate: suitable 
for northern or southern weather. And I recommend bottom covers for obvious 
reasons. Wooly soakers do well for outer layer.
-Original Message-
From: "Aylwen Gardiner-Garden" 
Sent 1/15/2011 5:06:55 AM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] Looking for pattern, 12th centuryDear List
I have  friend looking for a 12th Century style baby girls dress
pattern in a size 1. Is anyone able to help me find something for her?
Bye for now,
Aylwen
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Re: [h-cost] Thank you and 1940s Halo Hat Question

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

I had a wonderful John Fredericks 'halo' of black felt. The front (ear to ear) 
was a 5" tapered?roll, stuffed, with a felt covered "inch" elastic.? Think
?mini Elizabethan bum roll on backward.? Not much to look at in the box but 
classiclywonderful on the head.? Also had a felt?BesBen beret? without head 
band that aat on the back of the head, or cocked and this also gave a halo 
effect.
?wonderful 
KSM
From: "Sharon Collier" 
Sent 1/12/2011 11:18:33 AM
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thank you and 1940s Halo Hat QuestionI have a black halo 
hat of my mom's. It doesn't have a crown--that is , it
is open on purpose at the crown. It is slightly turned up at the edges. Made
of fine, black  woven stuff, (straw?). Label says Marche (with an accent)
Hats, New York
-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of penn...@costumegallery.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 12:04 AM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thank you and 1940s Halo Hat Question
I thought that I had my 1940s bridal photos with the halo hats on my laptop
or external hard-drive but don't.  I will have to pull the photos off my
master computer Wed. night.  I am sorry for the delay on the photos.
I saw halo hats in 1941 films on TMC Tuesday.   One film was "Affectionately
Yours" trailer, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjpRQBKNO4s  shows a side
view of the actress Merle Oberon's halo hat at  1:16 minute and Rita
Hayworth wearing a nice halo hat at 1:48 (great view ).   If I recall
correctly, the earliest I have seen halo hats is 1938 in a ladies' magazine.
Halo hats evolved to a skull cap with the halo added at the top and side
with no brim at the back of the head.  Sometimes the brim of the hat has
large semi-roll to provide the halo effect.  Generally the caps of the hats,
do not touch the temples are forehead hairline.  They are shifted back so
that the brim provides the full halo effect.  Think of the halo of the
Virgin Mary paintings or Jesus in The Last Supper.   But I have also seen
this same halo effect in Byzantine paintings.
These hats have been a pet project of mine for the past year.  I first saw
them in wedding photos with the brides wearing the hats.  This is a
beautiful effect.  The veil is attached to the crown and flows floor length
or longer. This reminds me of the Virgin Mary.  Next I started noticing them
in late 1930-1940s movies worn with suits.  I started purchasing the halo
hats at estate sales.  Since I am waiting to have a space to photograph my
hat collection, I moved my hat collection to a storage unit.  So I don't
have them in-house to snap a quick photo of one.
I have wondered for a long time, what and who started this fashion trend.
Penny Ladnier, owner
The Costume Gallery Websites
www.costumegallery.com
14 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
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Re: [h-cost] Queen Maud's wardrobe

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

It is lovely, indeed!? I have sewn the sideseams so I can continue the ribbon 
effect that extends to the train.? Maud is still traveling (held over at the 
Bradford house gallery) so I will wait until she returns to do a first 
fitting.? I have some lovely crimson silk velvet for the Robe and even a 
handful of ermine tails for effect (the remainder will be a dense antique 
plush.)? Found some great crowns to be appliqued to the back.? I know they were 
embroidered on the original, but I am not up to doing 50 or more motiffs. I 
finally got a good view of the coronation crown and that will be crafted also.
...
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 1/6/2011 3:27:03 PM
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Maud's wardrobeWOW  What a beautiful dress!
Penny Ladnier, owner
The Costume Gallery Websites
www.costumegallery.com
14 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
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Re: [h-cost] 1620s jacket vs waistcoat

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Somewhere in my library there is a note re waistcoats and jackets that 
describes the diff as being with or without sleeves. Any one else have seen 
this listing?
-Original Message-
From: "Jill Hadfield" 
Sent 1/6/2011 6:27:46 PM
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1620s jacket vs waistcoatAs far as I am aware,  a 
waistcoat was a 'coat cut to the
waist'  i.e. a jacket.  It would usually have sleeves but sometimes
removable sleeves.  These were worn by both men and women.
Jill
(who does 17th century living history, usually chopping onions, lots
and lots of onions but sometimes making butter) :-D
At 21:09 06/01/2011, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I've been reading through the old Plymouth Plantation embroidery
>blog for their
>reproduction embroidered jacket, and they were talking about waistcoats and
>jackets, but in a way that made them seem interchangeable. I've
>tried googling
>their blog directly to see if they explain anywhere what the differences or
>similarities are, but all I found was one article that mention jackets, while
>the links themselves mention 3 waistcoats and 1 jacket.
>http://thistle-threads.com.mytempweb.com/blog/index.php/2009/01/new-jackets-to-view/
>
>There was an earlier article where they said that the women would wear their
>smocks, petticoats and stays while indoors, but would not leave their homes
>without wearing a waistcoat or a jacket.
>
>I had thought waistcoats were like vests, but this is a time period
>that is new
>to me so I am not sure what they meant by waistcoat.
>
>Would anyone here be able to explain what the differences are, if any?
>
>Thank you,
>
>Kimiko
>
>  Kimiko Small
>http://www.kimiko1.com
>"Be the change you want to see in the world." ~ Ghandi
>
>
>The Tudor Lady's Wardrobe pattern
>http://www.margospatterns.com/
>
>
>
>
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