Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
Cnet just did an article on HDMI cables and they use cables around 6 bucks for their HT reviews. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hayes Elkins Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 5:22 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter You REALLY believe that, as far as cabling? Again, you might just be a millionaire! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:15:00 -0700 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter pretty much ANYTHING is better then Radio Shack CRAP. You had your stroke yet, you sure do rant :-D fp At 12:08 PM 3/11/2008, Hayes Elkins Poked the stick with: So next time a snooty salesman tries to sell you the virtue of a $100 Monster 1000 HDMI cable vs. a cheaper line, or that a $2000 3' digital coax cable from Kimber is clearly superior to a normal 75ohm coax from Ratshack - dont bother arguing, instead direct them to http://www.randi.org/joom/content/view/38/31/ and tell them they are a future millionaire. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Kindergarten Rules: Be kind. Be safe. Be protective. _ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join= Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 0.0.0/0 - Release Date: unknown 12:00 AM
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
I use a UPS on my HT as well as my computers, in Houston we have issues with power with the numerous thunder storms and such so I protect my Mitsu and my Onkyo with a APC BE350R, better than a surge protector. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 7:59 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter Don't know. Normally I would happen to agree with you if we were talking about Monster cables. Just not sure if that same logic applies to the rest of their products. That one is about $150, cheap ones with similar Joule ratings come in around $50 or so. Monster also claims to have a $150,000 warranty on any attached gear that gets fried. The problem is, I have never had an issue with electrical equipment being damaged by surges, brownouts, blackouts, or lightning strikes. I do use an APC UPS for my HTPC and have always used cheap surge protectors but never knew if they were actually doing anything or whether I was just lucky. I have always lived in areas with pretty constant (and clean) power so that's probably a factor. But I do know that there is a difference between clean and dirty power and that the things I mentioned above can destroy electronics. So hopefully someone on the list has had experience with cheap surge protectors failing or in getting Monster to live up to the money and hype, or something along those lines. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Eli Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't Monster by definition overpriced and not worth it? Eli -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 8:42 PM To: hwg Subject: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter Looking for what the list uses to protect their computers / home theater equipment. I'm a EE by training so you don't need to educate me on the benefits of clean power, I'm just looking for advice on what products people have used that are good and those that are crap. It would be protecting my home theater and a HTPC and a phone cable jack would be nice. I was thinking a Monster Power HTS 950 would do me just fine but I don't have a lot of experience with their products. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1323 - Release Date: 3/10/2008 11:07 AM
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
The monster fancy stuff that had filtering (the higher end had higher stages of filtering) drove me nuts because it definitely changed the sound, couldn't put my finger on it but it sounded a bit duller. Most of this power filtering crap is just that - crap. Pure snake oil. $5000 for a power cord? Awesome. I don't want anything in the chain CHANGING the sound, for the good or worse. I just plug my amp straight into the wall plug outlet. OH NOES!!! UNCLEAN POWER!!! You can surge your entire house with a single device on the cheap that will give the same amount protection and clean power that a$1K monster deck will provide, like here; http://www.dulley.com/docs/f760.htm I'd just get an inexpensive multi-outlet device that looks esthetically pleasing to your eye - and one that has the capacity to protect all of the items plugged into it (and avoid putting things like laser printers on the circuit). Just be mindful of any equipment that needs a 20amp run instead of 15. Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:42:10 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter Looking for what the list uses to protect their computers / home theater equipment. I'm a EE by training so you don't need to educate me on the benefits of clean power, I'm just looking for advice on what products people have used that are good and those that are crap. It would be protecting my home theater and a HTPC and a phone cable jack would be nice. I was thinking a Monster Power HTS 950 would do me just fine but I don't have a lot of experience with their products. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation _ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
I do agree with you that there is a large element of snake oil with power protection and conditioning but there is also an element of truth. Certain devices will dirty household power and certain devices are sensitive to it. If you have ever run into ground loops or feedback in a car audio install then you know exactly what I'm talking about. The situation is a lot less worse in the home (unless you happen to have a really messed up ground) but there are some similarities. My limit on such expenditures is always a fraction of what I am protecting. If I have $3000 in home theater and computer gear, spending 5% on surge protection seems reasonable, IF (and that's a big if) the products do what they are supposed to. If I had $20,000 in home audio separates along with my Martin Logan speakers then I would probably think about getting a true power conditioner. But I don't. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Hayes Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The monster fancy stuff that had filtering (the higher end had higher stages of filtering) drove me nuts because it definitely changed the sound, couldn't put my finger on it but it sounded a bit duller. Most of this power filtering crap is just that - crap. Pure snake oil. $5000 for a power cord? Awesome. I don't want anything in the chain CHANGING the sound, for the good or worse. I just plug my amp straight into the wall plug outlet. OH NOES!!! UNCLEAN POWER!!! You can surge your entire house with a single device on the cheap that will give the same amount protection and clean power that a$1K monster deck will provide, like here; http://www.dulley.com/docs/f760.htm I'd just get an inexpensive multi-outlet device that looks esthetically pleasing to your eye - and one that has the capacity to protect all of the items plugged into it (and avoid putting things like laser printers on the circuit). Just be mindful of any equipment that needs a 20amp run instead of 15. Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:42:10 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter Looking for what the list uses to protect their computers / home theater equipment. I'm a EE by training so you don't need to educate me on the benefits of clean power, I'm just looking for advice on what products people have used that are good and those that are crap. It would be protecting my home theater and a HTPC and a phone cable jack would be nice. I was thinking a Monster Power HTS 950 would do me just fine but I don't have a lot of experience with their products. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation _ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
The solution is to hire a competent contractor to find the problem outlets and fix them for 1/10th the cost of buying a snake oil. Usually this can get accomplished in tandem with your home inspection before buying your house. That mantra of needing to spend a fixed PERCENTAGE on accessories (many of which are rife with snake oil) to compliment the cost of your main home theater purchase is the biggest SCAM still gobbled up by the gullible consumer. Speakers, amplifiers, and displays have justifiable cost because they are generally expensive to manufacturer, especially the more powerful and bigger you go. But sorry, cables, wire, surge protectors, and stands are not items anybody needs to spend hundreds of bucks on, let alone thousands. 3' HDMI cables for over $50? You kidding me? You'd think after all components have gone digital the snake oil pricing would disappear with their analog relics. I'm a reformed snake oil audiophile. A sales guy says I need to spend $500 on speaker cable just because of the price of my front speakers? Fuck you, I'm buying lamp cord. I replaced all of my audioquest speaker cable with 12 gauge RadioShack wire - and I dumped all my interconnects entirely since I'm using all HDMI components (and cheap HDMI at that, from bluejeanscable) - and I noticed not a lick of difference firing my Paradigm studio 100s. I guarantee you will not either. Roger Russell, former McIntosh loudspeaker engineer, first enlightened me here years ago: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm In fact, A/V snake oil has become so absurd that it has alerted noted quackbuster James Randi, a famous skeptic who offers $1,000,000 to prove paranormal ability. That's right, the guy who deals with debunking religious fairy tales, mythical powers and quack medicine, now thinks that the notion of $5000 speaker wire being better than average wire is paranormal. LOL. http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/calling-bullshit/james-randi-offers-1-million-if-audiophiles-can-prove-7250-speaker-cables-are-better-305549.php So next time a snooty salesman tries to sell you the virtue of a $100 Monster 1000 HDMI cable vs. a cheaper line, or that a $2000 3' digital coax cable from Kimber is clearly superior to a normal 75ohm coax from Ratshack - don’t bother arguing, instead direct them to http://www.randi.org/joom/content/view/38/31/ and tell them they are a future millionaire. Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:08:02 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter I do agree with you that there is a large element of snake oil with power protection and conditioning but there is also an element of truth. Certain devices will dirty household power and certain devices are sensitive to it. If you have ever run into ground loops or feedback in a car audio install then you know exactly what I'm talking about. The situation is a lot less worse in the home (unless you happen to have a really messed up ground) but there are some similarities. My limit on such expenditures is always a fraction of what I am protecting. If I have $3000 in home theater and computer gear, spending 5% on surge protection seems reasonable, IF (and that's a big if) the products do what they are supposed to. If I had $20,000 in home audio separates along with my Martin Logan speakers then I would probably think about getting a true power conditioner. But I don't. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation _ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
pretty much ANYTHING is better then Radio Shack CRAP. You had your stroke yet, you sure do rant :-D fp At 12:08 PM 3/11/2008, Hayes Elkins Poked the stick with: So next time a snooty salesman tries to sell you the virtue of a $100 Monster 1000 HDMI cable vs. a cheaper line, or that a $2000 3' digital coax cable from Kimber is clearly superior to a normal 75ohm coax from Ratshack - dont bother arguing, instead direct them to http://www.randi.org/joom/content/view/38/31/ and tell them they are a future millionaire. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Kindergarten Rules: Be kind. Be safe. Be protective.
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
You REALLY believe that, as far as cabling? Again, you might just be a millionaire! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:15:00 -0700 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter pretty much ANYTHING is better then Radio Shack CRAP. You had your stroke yet, you sure do rant :-D fp At 12:08 PM 3/11/2008, Hayes Elkins Poked the stick with: So next time a snooty salesman tries to sell you the virtue of a $100 Monster 1000 HDMI cable vs. a cheaper line, or that a $2000 3' digital coax cable from Kimber is clearly superior to a normal 75ohm coax from Ratshack - don’t bother arguing, instead direct them to http://www.randi.org/joom/content/view/38/31/ and tell them they are a future millionaire. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Kindergarten Rules: Be kind. Be safe. Be protective. _ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
Blind test between Monster cable and a metal coat hanger: http://consumerist.com/362926/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables Now, if you are talking about having the proper gauge of wire for certain applications (ie high amperage) or having good, well-made connectors, then yeah there is a difference. But your oxygen-infused triple-platinum connectors? I've got a bridge to sell you. -- Brian On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Hayes Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You REALLY believe that, as far as cabling? Again, you might just be a millionaire! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:15:00 -0700 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter pretty much ANYTHING is better then Radio Shack CRAP. You had your stroke yet, you sure do rant :-D fp At 12:08 PM 3/11/2008, Hayes Elkins Poked the stick with: So next time a snooty salesman tries to sell you the virtue of a $100 Monster 1000 HDMI cable vs. a cheaper line, or that a $2000 3' digital coax cable from Kimber is clearly superior to a normal 75ohm coax from Ratshack - don't bother arguing, instead direct them to http://www.randi.org/joom/content/view/38/31/ and tell them they are a future millionaire. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Kindergarten Rules: Be kind. Be safe. Be protective. _ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
A good friend of mine is a EE who works for Micron. He is responsible for final testing, and certification of all new memory. He is a big time audiophile, and likes improvisional jazz. In fact, he has had a lot of success with a side business designing and making high end headphone amps, and last I heard Apple certified his products to be ipod worthy. I once asked him about the importance of cabling. He told me that when he was a grad student he decided to build a tester to check different audio wiring in order to come up with the best one. He discovered that not only was there very little difference, if any, between brands, but Walmart brand performed the best for his tester! At 03:26 PM 3/11/2008, you wrote: Blind test between Monster cable and a metal coat hanger: http://consumerist.com/362926/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables Now, if you are talking about having the proper gauge of wire for certain applications (ie high amperage) or having good, well-made connectors, then yeah there is a difference. But your oxygen-infused triple-platinum connectors? I've got a bridge to sell you. -- Brian On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Hayes Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You REALLY believe that, as far as cabling? Again, you might just be a millionaire! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:15:00 -0700 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter pretty much ANYTHING is better then Radio Shack CRAP. You had your stroke yet, you sure do rant :-D fp At 12:08 PM 3/11/2008, Hayes Elkins Poked the stick with: So next time a snooty salesman tries to sell you the virtue of a $100 Monster 1000 HDMI cable vs. a cheaper line, or that a $2000 3' digital coax cable from Kimber is clearly superior to a normal 75ohm coax from Ratshack - don't bother arguing, instead direct them to http://www.randi.org/joom/content/view/38/31/ and tell them they are a future millionaire. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Kindergarten Rules: Be kind. Be safe. Be protective. _ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
I'm running a Belkin F6C1100-UNV, 1100VA, UPS. It has worked flawlessly through several power outages, and, has done the automatic shut down routine once with no problems. The accompanying software gives all the levels and battery conditions real-time. I've just been very impressed with it. Jeff 'You know that your landing gear is up and locked when it takes full power to taxi to the terminal.' Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter pretty much ANYTHING is better then Radio Shack CRAP. You had your stroke yet, you sure do rant :-D fp At 12:08 PM 3/11/2008, Hayes Elkins Poked the stick with: So next time a snooty salesman tries to sell you the virtue of a $100 Monster 1000 HDMI cable vs. a cheaper line, or that a $2000 3' digital coax cable from Kimber is clearly superior to a normal 75ohm coax from Ratshack - don't bother arguing, instead direct them to http://www.randi.org/joom/content/view/38/31/ and tell them they are a future millionaire. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Kindergarten Rules: Be kind. Be safe. Be protective.
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
Not being an EE could not argue for or against Monster except on wires or interconnects as they tend to call them which I also think are snake oil unless maybe your talking 1000's of feet or outside runs, still My rule of surge protectors is buy only ones that come with insurance like the APC's (and several other brands) do or they are simply overrated power taps. Hayes Elkins wrote: The monster fancy stuff that had filtering (the higher end had higher stages of filtering) drove me nuts because it definitely changed the sound, couldn't put my finger on it but it sounded a bit duller. Most of this power filtering crap is just that - crap. Pure snake oil. $5000 for a power cord? Awesome. I don't want anything in the chain CHANGING the sound, for the good or worse. I just plug my amp straight into the wall plug outlet. OH NOES!!! UNCLEAN POWER!!! You can surge your entire house with a single device on the cheap that will give the same amount protection and clean power that a$1K monster deck will provide, like here; http://www.dulley.com/docs/f760.htm I'd just get an inexpensive multi-outlet device that looks esthetically pleasing to your eye - and one that has the capacity to protect all of the items plugged into it (and avoid putting things like laser printers on the circuit). Just be mindful of any equipment that needs a 20amp run instead of 15. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
Brian, The ...oxygen-infused triple-platinum connectors really only have worth in the pure audio crowd. This is a crowd I have a life-time of experience with. Hayes, bless his heart, frequently tweaks me and my primo audio side. It is a button. Ears are very personal. Commercial 10//3 romex internal house electrical stuff makes really 'good' audio speaker cable. A bit large for all things digital, but if you have the proper connectors, works fine. (looks really odd!) If your have a really large amp, it really likes all that copper to flow watts to the speakers. JMHO. (but I am a Kimber-freak! Been one for 25yrs) In the venues you have been asking about (htpc), it really boils down to what you feel you want to do (regardless of what any of us share); because in the end you will do a cost/value analysis, and then make your choices. GO FOR IT. And, after it is installed and working, let us know how it works! Best, Duncan At 18:26 03/11/2008 -0400, you wrote: Blind test between Monster cable and a metal coat hanger: http://consumerist.com/362926/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables Now, if you are talking about having the proper gauge of wire for certain applications (ie high amperage) or having good, well-made connectors, then yeah there is a difference. But your oxygen-infused triple-platinum connectors? I've got a bridge to sell you. -- Brian On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Hayes Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You REALLY believe that, as far as cabling? Again, you might just be a millionaire! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:15:00 -0700 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter pretty much ANYTHING is better then Radio Shack CRAP. You had your stroke yet, you sure do rant :-D fp At 12:08 PM 3/11/2008, Hayes Elkins Poked the stick with: So next time a snooty salesman tries to sell you the virtue of a $100 Monster 1000 HDMI cable vs. a cheaper line, or that a $2000 3' digital coax cable from Kimber is clearly superior to a normal 75ohm coax from Ratshack - don't bother arguing, instead direct them to http://www.randi.org/joom/content/view/38/31/ and tell them they are a future millionaire. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Kindergarten Rules: Be kind. Be safe. Be protective. _ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
Brian, Ignore my last reply. Hayes, Just kidding! (sort of) Winterlight, All my life I've waited for an objective proof of this. Not sure your friend is correct, but, at this time we live in, I will accept his non-scientific opinion. Audio business is seriously back-yard. We are now all a very video-centric bunch of tweaks, I believe. Best, Duncan At 15:39 03/11/2008 -0700, you wrote: A good friend of mine is a EE who works for Micron. He is responsible for final testing, and certification of all new memory. He is a big time audiophile, and likes improvisional jazz. In fact, he has had a lot of success with a side business designing and making high end headphone amps, and last I heard Apple certified his products to be ipod worthy. I once asked him about the importance of cabling. He told me that when he was a grad student he decided to build a tester to check different audio wiring in order to come up with the best one. He discovered that not only was there very little difference, if any, between brands, but Walmart brand performed the best for his tester! At 03:26 PM 3/11/2008, you wrote: Blind test between Monster cable and a metal coat hanger: http://consumerist.com/362926/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables Now, if you are talking about having the proper gauge of wire for certain applications (ie high amperage) or having good, well-made connectors, then yeah there is a difference. But your oxygen-infused triple-platinum connectors? I've got a bridge to sell you. -- Brian On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Hayes Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You REALLY believe that, as far as cabling? Again, you might just be a millionaire! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:15:00 -0700 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter pretty much ANYTHING is better then Radio Shack CRAP. You had your stroke yet, you sure do rant :-D fp At 12:08 PM 3/11/2008, Hayes Elkins Poked the stick with: So next time a snooty salesman tries to sell you the virtue of a $100 Monster 1000 HDMI cable vs. a cheaper line, or that a $2000 3' digital coax cable from Kimber is clearly superior to a normal 75ohm coax from Ratshack - don't bother arguing, instead direct them to http://www.randi.org/joom/content/view/38/31/ and tell them they are a future millionaire. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Kindergarten Rules: Be kind. Be safe. Be protective. _ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
As a EE myself, I tend to agree with your EE friend. :-) I use cheap 16-gauge lamp cord to connect my speakers. Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (WLMail) -- From: Winterlight [EMAIL PROTECTED] A good friend of mine is a EE who works for Micron. He is responsible for final testing, and certification of all new memory. He is a big time audiophile, and likes improvisional jazz. In fact, he has had a lot of success with a side business designing and making high end headphone amps, and last I heard Apple certified his products to be ipod worthy. I once asked him about the importance of cabling. He told me that when he was a grad student he decided to build a tester to check different audio wiring in order to come up with the best one. He discovered that not only was there very little difference, if any, between brands, but Walmart brand performed the best for his tester!
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
The first real objective proof I came across that really opened my eyes (and maybe my ears?) was Roger Russell's rant (a former engineer of high end McIntosh speakers and amps) http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm And for shits and giggles, I present to you all the most profoundly stupid audiophile snake oil ever offered for sale: Pebbles. Bags of pebbles to be exact. I think a bag of crack rock would be more beneficial to modifying the perceived sound passing through your ears, especially after smoking a bit of the bag's contents - http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:40:35 -0400 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter Brian, Ignore my last reply. Hayes, Just kidding! (sort of) Winterlight, All my life I've waited for an objective proof of this. Not sure your friend is correct, but, at this time we live in, I will accept his non-scientific opinion. Audio business is seriously back-yard. We are now all a very video-centric bunch of tweaks, I believe. Best, Duncan At 15:39 03/11/2008 -0700, you wrote: A good friend of mine is a EE who works for Micron. He is responsible for final testing, and certification of all new memory. He is a big time audiophile, and likes improvisional jazz. In fact, he has had a lot of success with a side business designing and making high end headphone amps, and last I heard Apple certified his products to be ipod worthy. I once asked him about the importance of cabling. He told me that when he was a grad student he decided to build a tester to check different audio wiring in order to come up with the best one. He discovered that not only was there very little difference, if any, between brands, but Walmart brand performed the best for his tester! _ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your fix. http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
At 20:33 3/10/2008, DHSinclair wrote: Brian, Look at Best Power or APC. Most else is still trying to get there. Best, Duncan I used APCs until a unit kept frying motherboards. Best Power doesn't exist anymore, but its sucessor does--PowerWare: http://www.PowerWare.com/ I use 2 of these: http://www.powerware.com/UPS/5115_UPS.asp If your power glitches for 3 seconds, a surge suppressor won't stop the outage. A good UPS will just beep. For speaker wire, thick lamp cord is great. Start Here to Find It Fast! - http://www.US-Webmasters.com/best-start-page/ $8.77 Domain Names - http://domains.us-webmasters.com/
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
Hayes, I will go look/read your roger-russell.com link. Then I MAY come back for more banter. This topic is not a 1-0 issue ATM. It is very much your opinion/other opinion. U like Roger; and have run with HIS opinion. Fine. Give us some time to get up to speed B4 you grace us with your vented spleen. Computers you can have. Audio I may wish to discuss. Best, Duncan At 22:46 03/11/2008 -0400, you wrote: The first real objective proof I came across that really opened my eyes (and maybe my ears?) was Roger Russell's rant (a former engineer of high end McIntosh speakers and amps) http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm And for shits and giggles, I present to you all the most profoundly stupid audiophile snake oil ever offered for sale: Pebbles. Bags of pebbles to be exact. I think a bag of crack rock would be more beneficial to modifying the perceived sound passing through your ears, especially after smoking a bit of the bag's contents - http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:40:35 -0400 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter Brian, Ignore my last reply. Hayes, Just kidding! (sort of) Winterlight, All my life I've waited for an objective proof of this. Not sure your friend is correct, but, at this time we live in, I will accept his non-scientific opinion. Audio business is seriously back-yard. We are now all a very video-centric bunch of tweaks, I believe. Best, Duncan At 15:39 03/11/2008 -0700, you wrote: A good friend of mine is a EE who works for Micron. He is responsible for final testing, and certification of all new memory. He is a big time audiophile, and likes improvisional jazz. In fact, he has had a lot of success with a side business designing and making high end headphone amps, and last I heard Apple certified his products to be ipod worthy. I once asked him about the importance of cabling. He told me that when he was a grad student he decided to build a tester to check different audio wiring in order to come up with the best one. He discovered that not only was there very little difference, if any, between brands, but Walmart brand performed the best for his tester! _ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your fix. http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
[H] Surge suppressor / power filter
Looking for what the list uses to protect their computers / home theater equipment. I'm a EE by training so you don't need to educate me on the benefits of clean power, I'm just looking for advice on what products people have used that are good and those that are crap. It would be protecting my home theater and a HTPC and a phone cable jack would be nice. I was thinking a Monster Power HTS 950 would do me just fine but I don't have a lot of experience with their products. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
Isn't Monster by definition overpriced and not worth it? Eli -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 8:42 PM To: hwg Subject: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter Looking for what the list uses to protect their computers / home theater equipment. I'm a EE by training so you don't need to educate me on the benefits of clean power, I'm just looking for advice on what products people have used that are good and those that are crap. It would be protecting my home theater and a HTPC and a phone cable jack would be nice. I was thinking a Monster Power HTS 950 would do me just fine but I don't have a lot of experience with their products. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
Don't know. Normally I would happen to agree with you if we were talking about Monster cables. Just not sure if that same logic applies to the rest of their products. That one is about $150, cheap ones with similar Joule ratings come in around $50 or so. Monster also claims to have a $150,000 warranty on any attached gear that gets fried. The problem is, I have never had an issue with electrical equipment being damaged by surges, brownouts, blackouts, or lightning strikes. I do use an APC UPS for my HTPC and have always used cheap surge protectors but never knew if they were actually doing anything or whether I was just lucky. I have always lived in areas with pretty constant (and clean) power so that's probably a factor. But I do know that there is a difference between clean and dirty power and that the things I mentioned above can destroy electronics. So hopefully someone on the list has had experience with cheap surge protectors failing or in getting Monster to live up to the money and hype, or something along those lines. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Eli Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't Monster by definition overpriced and not worth it? Eli -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 8:42 PM To: hwg Subject: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter Looking for what the list uses to protect their computers / home theater equipment. I'm a EE by training so you don't need to educate me on the benefits of clean power, I'm just looking for advice on what products people have used that are good and those that are crap. It would be protecting my home theater and a HTPC and a phone cable jack would be nice. I was thinking a Monster Power HTS 950 would do me just fine but I don't have a lot of experience with their products. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
Brian, Look at Best Power or APC. Most else is still trying to get there. Best, Duncan At 20:42 03/10/2008 -0400, you wrote: Looking for what the list uses to protect their computers / home theater equipment. I'm a EE by training so you don't need to educate me on the benefits of clean power, I'm just looking for advice on what products people have used that are good and those that are crap. It would be protecting my home theater and a HTPC and a phone cable jack would be nice. I was thinking a Monster Power HTS 950 would do me just fine but I don't have a lot of experience with their products. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
Thanks. I've used APC UPS' before and I've been happy with them. I like the C3 surge protector. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 9:33 PM, DHSinclair [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian, Look at Best Power or APC. Most else is still trying to get there. Best, Duncan At 20:42 03/10/2008 -0400, you wrote: Looking for what the list uses to protect their computers / home theater equipment. I'm a EE by training so you don't need to educate me on the benefits of clean power, I'm just looking for advice on what products people have used that are good and those that are crap. It would be protecting my home theater and a HTPC and a phone cable jack would be nice. I was thinking a Monster Power HTS 950 would do me just fine but I don't have a lot of experience with their products. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
I pretty much use APC exclusively. I have my pc hooked up to 2 APC UPS's. One of them has power conditioning, powering the PC itself, and the other has the monitor, router, etc. on it. I also use APC surge suppressors for items that do not need battery back-up or power conditioning. I do have one Belkin UPS that has power conditioning that I have on my HDTV (got a really good deal on it). Bobby -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 8:42 PM To: hwg Subject: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter Looking for what the list uses to protect their computers / home theater equipment. I'm a EE by training so you don't need to educate me on the benefits of clean power, I'm just looking for advice on what products people have used that are good and those that are crap. It would be protecting my home theater and a HTPC and a phone cable jack would be nice. I was thinking a Monster Power HTS 950 would do me just fine but I don't have a lot of experience with their products. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
My very first Computer years ago (a Dell -- before I became a builder), suffered from all sorts of problems, and LOADS of in warranty repairs. (Ever hear of anyone getting 5 MBs out of them for the same machine...?) (I had the better service contract from the better division of the company.) The ONLY things they never changed were the floppy drive and the tape drive... I used to like hearing the Texas Radio-on-hold at 4AM while waiting for a senior tech to pick up... (The best ones came in early...) Then I got an APC UPS, and on the first day listened to it trip on and off around 50-100 times... So much, the local Power Company (much to their credit) sent a truck out... To make a long story short, they found a VERY poor connection on a pole about 100-200 ft down the street from my house... After getting a new MB again, and a new APC-UPS (in warranty), all my problems suddenly stopped... THERE WERE NO OTHER SYMPTOMS or any other early failures in my house or my neighbors.. Get something, and get it first... JMHO, YMMV... Rick Glazier, Former GEEIA From: Brian Weeden But I do know that there is a difference between clean and dirty power and that the things I mentioned above can destroy electronics. So hopefully someone on the list has had experience with cheap surge protectors failing or in getting Monster to live up to the money and hype, or something along those lines.
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
I use a 1200 watt APC Smart UPS for my computer gear. True sine wave output. :) Looking for what the list uses to protect their computers / home theater equipment. I'm a EE by training so you don't need to educate me on the benefits of clean power, I'm just looking for advice on what products people have used that are good and those that are crap. It would be protecting my home theater and a HTPC and a phone cable jack would be nice. I was thinking a Monster Power HTS 950 would do me just fine but I don't have a lot of experience with their products. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation -- JRS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please remove **X** to reply... ...Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult...
Re: [H] Surge suppressor / power filter
At 00:53 03/11/08, JRS wrote: I use a 1200 watt APC Smart UPS for my computer gear. True sine wave output. :) Three computers here (each with 10 internal SCSI drives)...three APC SmartUPS 1500 (computer, external drives, monitor for each UPS). Plus one SmartUPS 1000 for the little stuff: two routers, two switches, a printer server, and my wireless phone system's base station. (The SmartUPS 1000 started out on one of the aforementioned computers but I noticed one day that adding a measly thumb drive to one of the computers overloaded the 1000 VA UPS, setting off its alarm.) There's a vertical set of 5 lights on each of these SmartUPS models that indicates % of max load. The SmartUPS 1000 shows no lights lit. Each of the SmartUPS 1500 shows 2 lights lit. (The SmartUPS 1000 showed 5 lights lit when it was on a computer.) I've replaced the batteries on each of these UPS at least once. I get about three years on each set (two internal batteries in each) of batteries. Regards, Bill
