Re: [H] Vista class action
The plot thickens. 158 pages of internal Microsoft emails on the matter have turned up as part of the court discovery process. This page has a good overview as well as links to the whole pdf: http://apcmag.com/8344/has_vista_lost_all_credibility Some gems: In the end, however, the need to placate other hardware vendors became a major factor -- particularly Intel, which was keen to keep selling its 915 graphics chipset, which couldn't handle Aero at that point. 'In the end, we lowered the requirement to help Intel make their quarterly earnings so they could continue to sell motherboards with 915 graphics embedded, general manager John Kalkman wrote. It was a mistake on our part to change the original graphics requirements.' In an email to Ballmer, Steven Sinofsky wrote, 'No one really believed we would ever ship, so they didn't start the work until late 2006. This led to lack of availability. For example, my home multi-function printer did not have drivers until 2/2 and even pulled their drivers and re-released them [Brother].' Sinofsky continued, 'Massive changes in the underpinning for video and audio led to a really poor experience at RTM, especially with respect to Windows Media Center. This change led to incompatibilities. For example, you don't get Aero with an XP [graphics] driver, but your card might not (ever) have a Vista driver.' That last one many of us saw coming a mile away, as Microsoft was forced to re-write the entire audio/video subsystem at the last minute to placate the Hollywood crowd and allow for HD playback. --- Brian
Re: [H] Vista class action
Brian, I know the pain about lowering graphics requirements for Vista, I have a MPC that is almost unusable with Vista Premium. Although, plays videos and songs very nicely. Too bad no video games though. My laptop is a XPS Gen 2 and it is still going strong with Vista Ultimate installed (Installed it because of work requirements). The total opposite can be said for my gaming computer. It has Windows Vista Ultimate and it runs just as fast as it did with XP MCD. Of course this computer has upper end gear though. Only thing I am pissed about is Directsound and the inability to decode 5.1 on SD-PIF. But, alas I live with it. I have a question though, were did the e-mails come from? Did Microsoft give them freely or was there a court order for them? I did not remember anything of mentioning that. If they have not been given freely by Microsoft or a court order was used the person that handed them can be charged for theft of the e-mails, since the e-mail belong to Microsoft. I have personally seen cases of people brought to court for illegally using company e-mail for personal and/or illegal use. My job gets me into those situations sometimes :( Regards, Tim The Beave Lider E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 1:11 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Vista class action The plot thickens. 158 pages of internal Microsoft emails on the matter have turned up as part of the court discovery process. This page has a good overview as well as links to the whole pdf: http://apcmag.com/8344/has_vista_lost_all_credibility Some gems: In the end, however, the need to placate other hardware vendors became a major factor -- particularly Intel, which was keen to keep selling its 915 graphics chipset, which couldn't handle Aero at that point. 'In the end, we lowered the requirement to help Intel make their quarterly earnings so they could continue to sell motherboards with 915 graphics embedded, general manager John Kalkman wrote. It was a mistake on our part to change the original graphics requirements.' In an email to Ballmer, Steven Sinofsky wrote, 'No one really believed we would ever ship, so they didn't start the work until late 2006. This led to lack of availability. For example, my home multi-function printer did not have drivers until 2/2 and even pulled their drivers and re-released them [Brother].' Sinofsky continued, 'Massive changes in the underpinning for video and audio led to a really poor experience at RTM, especially with respect to Windows Media Center. This change led to incompatibilities. For example, you don't get Aero with an XP [graphics] driver, but your card might not (ever) have a Vista driver.' That last one many of us saw coming a mile away, as Microsoft was forced to re-write the entire audio/video subsystem at the last minute to placate the Hollywood crowd and allow for HD playback. --- Brian
Re: [H] Vista class action
Unknown how the emails were obtained as of yet. All I have read is that they were introduced into the court session as evidence. A few were read out and then the rest were sealed until the session starts up again on Monday. If the judge allowed them to be introduced as actual evidence I would assume that they were obtained legally, but we will have to see. On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 4:44 PM, The Beave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian, I know the pain about lowering graphics requirements for Vista, I have a MPC that is almost unusable with Vista Premium. Although, plays videos and songs very nicely. Too bad no video games though. My laptop is a XPS Gen 2 and it is still going strong with Vista Ultimate installed (Installed it because of work requirements). The total opposite can be said for my gaming computer. It has Windows Vista Ultimate and it runs just as fast as it did with XP MCD. Of course this computer has upper end gear though. Only thing I am pissed about is Directsound and the inability to decode 5.1 on SD-PIF. But, alas I live with it. I have a question though, were did the e-mails come from? Did Microsoft give them freely or was there a court order for them? I did not remember anything of mentioning that. If they have not been given freely by Microsoft or a court order was used the person that handed them can be charged for theft of the e-mails, since the e-mail belong to Microsoft. I have personally seen cases of people brought to court for illegally using company e-mail for personal and/or illegal use. My job gets me into those situations sometimes :( Regards, Tim The Beave Lider E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 1:11 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Vista class action The plot thickens. 158 pages of internal Microsoft emails on the matter have turned up as part of the court discovery process. This page has a good overview as well as links to the whole pdf: http://apcmag.com/8344/has_vista_lost_all_credibility Some gems: In the end, however, the need to placate other hardware vendors became a major factor -- particularly Intel, which was keen to keep selling its 915 graphics chipset, which couldn't handle Aero at that point. 'In the end, we lowered the requirement to help Intel make their quarterly earnings so they could continue to sell motherboards with 915 graphics embedded, general manager John Kalkman wrote. It was a mistake on our part to change the original graphics requirements.' In an email to Ballmer, Steven Sinofsky wrote, 'No one really believed we would ever ship, so they didn't start the work until late 2006. This led to lack of availability. For example, my home multi-function printer did not have drivers until 2/2 and even pulled their drivers and re-released them [Brother].' Sinofsky continued, 'Massive changes in the underpinning for video and audio led to a really poor experience at RTM, especially with respect to Windows Media Center. This change led to incompatibilities. For example, you don't get Aero with an XP [graphics] driver, but your card might not (ever) have a Vista driver.' That last one many of us saw coming a mile away, as Microsoft was forced to re-write the entire audio/video subsystem at the last minute to placate the Hollywood crowd and allow for HD playback. --- Brian
Re: [H] Vista class action
Great picture... ha,ha,ha Rick Glazier From: JRS Bwahahahaa.. :) On the lines of this class action, here's something I stumbled into ages ago and only just found.. http://pacificprince.googlepages.com/vista-hardware-reqs.png Who wants to go hahahahahahahaha with me? :) -JB
Re: [H] Vista class action
On the lines of this class action, here's something I stumbled into ages ago and only just found.. http://pacificprince.googlepages.com/vista-hardware-reqs.png Who wants to go hahahahahahahaha with me? :) -JB
Re: [H] Vista class action
Bwahahahaa.. :) On the lines of this class action, here's something I stumbled into ages ago and only just found.. http://pacificprince.googlepages.com/vista-hardware-reqs.png Who wants to go hahahahahahahaha with me? :) -JB -- JRS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please remove **X** to reply... ...Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult...
Re: [H] Vista class action
Idiot consumers are forever tying their PC purchases to price the promises of slick salesman. Sounds like people are pissed they were duped into buying low-end PC's that can only the most basic version of Vista (means nothing given what's not in VHB) which of course begs the question were those pc's also so low end they could barely run XP? On the same token these idiots don't even know why they wanted Vista in the 1st place especially since they likely bought low-end systems consisting of Celeron integrated RAM stealing video. Ben Ruset wrote: This is absolutely the most retarded thing I've ever read: These common issues ... are whether Vista Home Basic, in truth, can fairly be called 'Vista' and whether Microsoft's 'Windows Vista Capable' marketing campaign inflated demand market-wide for 'Windows Vista Capable' PCs, she wrote. Why the hell would you not call Vista Home Basic Vista? And since when has there been market demand for Vista at all? If anything, Vista has put XP in more demand. I hate lawyers. Chris Reeves wrote: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/352442_vista23.html Sent via BlackBerry by ATT Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [H] Vista class action
In this case there also happens to be an internal memo from a Microsoft VP who bought a Vista Capable PC instead of a Premium Ready one and got burned. His memo asks the (rhetorical) question, if we don't understand our own marketing, what does that say about what we are doing to our customers? http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080211-vista-capable-scheme-was-panned-at-microsoft.html As Arstechnica pointed out, the lawsuit was originally targeted at Microsoft's efforts to prop up XP sales right up until the release date of Vista. In other words, to convince people to buy PCs with XP during the holiday season instead of waiting another couple of months for Vista like many wanted to (and everyone who wanted Vista should have). So the judge limiting the lawsuit as explained in the OP article basically removes this and means that instead of arguing the false advertising and market manipulation issue, they are forced to only focus on the is Vista Basic really Vista and worth XX?. That is a huge win for Microsoft and instead of having an actual, meaningful lawsuit this will be yet another long, drawn out legal battle with Microsoft that means nothing for the consumer that got screwed. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 4:04 PM, j maccraw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Idiot consumers are forever tying their PC purchases to price the promises of slick salesman. Sounds like people are pissed they were duped into buying low-end PC's that can only the most basic version of Vista (means nothing given what's not in VHB) which of course begs the question were those pc's also so low end they could barely run XP? On the same token these idiots don't even know why they wanted Vista in the 1st place especially since they likely bought low-end systems consisting of Celeron integrated RAM stealing video. Ben Ruset wrote: This is absolutely the most retarded thing I've ever read: These common issues ... are whether Vista Home Basic, in truth, can fairly be called 'Vista' and whether Microsoft's 'Windows Vista Capable' marketing campaign inflated demand market-wide for 'Windows Vista Capable' PCs, she wrote. Why the hell would you not call Vista Home Basic Vista? And since when has there been market demand for Vista at all? If anything, Vista has put XP in more demand. I hate lawyers. Chris Reeves wrote: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/352442_vista23.html Sent via BlackBerry by ATT Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [H] Vista class action
I don't know if it's slick salesmen or not. It's a matter of what Vista Capable means. If it means that the PC will run Vista, then it's not deceptive. If they want to define it as being able to run Aero as well as a bunch of other crap then maybe. People shouldn't buy a $300 PC and get pissed that it doesn't have the same features as a $1000+ PC. j maccraw wrote: Idiot consumers are forever tying their PC purchases to price the promises of slick salesman. Sounds like people are pissed they were duped into buying low-end PC's that can only the most basic version of Vista (means nothing given what's not in VHB) which of course begs the question were those pc's also so low end they could barely run XP? On the same token these idiots don't even know why they wanted Vista in the 1st place especially since they likely bought low-end systems consisting of Celeron integrated RAM stealing video. Ben Ruset wrote: This is absolutely the most retarded thing I've ever read: These common issues ... are whether Vista Home Basic, in truth, can fairly be called 'Vista' and whether Microsoft's 'Windows Vista Capable' marketing campaign inflated demand market-wide for 'Windows Vista Capable' PCs, she wrote. Why the hell would you not call Vista Home Basic Vista? And since when has there been market demand for Vista at all? If anything, Vista has put XP in more demand. I hate lawyers. Chris Reeves wrote: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/352442_vista23.html Sent via BlackBerry by ATT Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [H] Vista class action
How is Vista Basic *not* Vista? Brian Weeden wrote: In this case there also happens to be an internal memo from a Microsoft VP who bought a Vista Capable PC instead of a Premium Ready one and got burned. His memo asks the (rhetorical) question, if we don't understand our own marketing, what does that say about what we are doing to our customers? http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080211-vista-capable-scheme-was-panned-at-microsoft.html As Arstechnica pointed out, the lawsuit was originally targeted at Microsoft's efforts to prop up XP sales right up until the release date of Vista. In other words, to convince people to buy PCs with XP during the holiday season instead of waiting another couple of months for Vista like many wanted to (and everyone who wanted Vista should have). So the judge limiting the lawsuit as explained in the OP article basically removes this and means that instead of arguing the false advertising and market manipulation issue, they are forced to only focus on the is Vista Basic really Vista and worth XX?. That is a huge win for Microsoft and instead of having an actual, meaningful lawsuit this will be yet another long, drawn out legal battle with Microsoft that means nothing for the consumer that got screwed.
Re: [H] Vista class action
Hello j, Monday, February 25, 2008, 3:04:01 PM, you wrote: Sounds like people are pissed they were duped into buying low-end PC's that can only the most basic version of Vista (means nothing given what's not in VHB) which of course begs the question were those pc's also so low end they could barely run XP? I see what you are saying but I am willing to bet even the bare minimum Vista PC could easily run XP and run it better. -- Regards, joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...
Re: [H] Vista class action
Hello Brian, Monday, February 25, 2008, 3:40:06 PM, you wrote: To repeat what was posted before, Basic has: * No Aero (the cool glassy GUI for Vista) * No backup to anything but local * No DirectX10 * Doesn't come with new Vista games and themes * Windows Vista Meeting not present In other words, Vista Basic has none of the features that make Vista a new OS and is very limited in how you can use it. And if your PC was labeled Vista Capable you can't run full Vista on it, only the Basic version. Has anyone confirmed this * No DirectX10 ??? -- Regards, joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...
Re: [H] Vista class action
Unconfirmed - seems that the Intarweb has people claiming it both ways. It is confirmed that Basic does not support Aero. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 4:47 PM, Joe User [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Brian, Monday, February 25, 2008, 3:40:06 PM, you wrote: To repeat what was posted before, Basic has: * No Aero (the cool glassy GUI for Vista) * No backup to anything but local * No DirectX10 * Doesn't come with new Vista games and themes * Windows Vista Meeting not present In other words, Vista Basic has none of the features that make Vista a new OS and is very limited in how you can use it. And if your PC was labeled Vista Capable you can't run full Vista on it, only the Basic version. Has anyone confirmed this * No DirectX10 ??? -- Regards, joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...
Re: [H] Vista class action
To repeat what was posted before, Basic has: * No Aero (the cool glassy GUI for Vista) * No backup to anything but local * No DirectX10 * Doesn't come with new Vista games and themes * Windows Vista Meeting not present In other words, Vista Basic has none of the features that make Vista a new OS and is very limited in how you can use it. And if your PC was labeled Vista Capable you can't run full Vista on it, only the Basic version. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How is Vista Basic *not* Vista? Brian Weeden wrote: In this case there also happens to be an internal memo from a Microsoft VP who bought a Vista Capable PC instead of a Premium Ready one and got burned. His memo asks the (rhetorical) question, if we don't understand our own marketing, what does that say about what we are doing to our customers? http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080211-vista-capable-scheme-was-panned-at-microsoft.html As Arstechnica pointed out, the lawsuit was originally targeted at Microsoft's efforts to prop up XP sales right up until the release date of Vista. In other words, to convince people to buy PCs with XP during the holiday season instead of waiting another couple of months for Vista like many wanted to (and everyone who wanted Vista should have). So the judge limiting the lawsuit as explained in the OP article basically removes this and means that instead of arguing the false advertising and market manipulation issue, they are forced to only focus on the is Vista Basic really Vista and worth XX?. That is a huge win for Microsoft and instead of having an actual, meaningful lawsuit this will be yet another long, drawn out legal battle with Microsoft that means nothing for the consumer that got screwed.
Re: [H] Vista class action
I don't agree. It's still the Vista code base. It has more features and changes from XP. A BMW 3 series is still a BMW, despite it not having all of the features of the 7 series. Vista Basic is designed for cheap/low-end PC's, so it's not like they'd be able to run Aero. Is a cheap home PC going to back up to a network share? It's likely to be the only PC in the house. I'm not sure about DX10, but again, is it going to be a gaming PC with a crap video card? Games? Oh no, no Chess Titans! And Vista Meeting? What's that - the replacement for Netmeeting? Is the target demographic going to care about it? If any version of Vista will boot and run on the thing, it's Vista Capable in my book. Brian Weeden wrote: To repeat what was posted before, Basic has: * No Aero (the cool glassy GUI for Vista) * No backup to anything but local * No DirectX10 * Doesn't come with new Vista games and themes * Windows Vista Meeting not present In other words, Vista Basic has none of the features that make Vista a new OS and is very limited in how you can use it. And if your PC was labeled Vista Capable you can't run full Vista on it, only the Basic version. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation
Re: [H] Vista class action
I agree with you. But you'd still be pretty pissed if you spent $2,000 on a new PC in November 2007 and find out that you have to buy a new one in two months later to run the full windows Vista when the salesmen assured you that it was Vista Capable. It was all about driving Christmas sales of PCs even though Vista wasn't shipping until after the holidays. Like I said, when the judge said the lawsuit has to argue whether Vista Basic is still Vista, that's a win for Microsoft. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't agree. It's still the Vista code base. It has more features and changes from XP. A BMW 3 series is still a BMW, despite it not having all of the features of the 7 series. Vista Basic is designed for cheap/low-end PC's, so it's not like they'd be able to run Aero. Is a cheap home PC going to back up to a network share? It's likely to be the only PC in the house. I'm not sure about DX10, but again, is it going to be a gaming PC with a crap video card? Games? Oh no, no Chess Titans! And Vista Meeting? What's that - the replacement for Netmeeting? Is the target demographic going to care about it? If any version of Vista will boot and run on the thing, it's Vista Capable in my book. Brian Weeden wrote: To repeat what was posted before, Basic has: * No Aero (the cool glassy GUI for Vista) * No backup to anything but local * No DirectX10 * Doesn't come with new Vista games and themes * Windows Vista Meeting not present In other words, Vista Basic has none of the features that make Vista a new OS and is very limited in how you can use it. And if your PC was labeled Vista Capable you can't run full Vista on it, only the Basic version. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation
Re: [H] Vista class action
A $2000 computer isn't coming with Vista Basic though. Unless the upgrade coupon that came with PC's that shipped with XP Home only entitles you to Vista Home Basic... then I'd see why people are pissed. Brian Weeden wrote: I agree with you. But you'd still be pretty pissed if you spent $2,000 on a new PC in November 2007 and find out that you have to buy a new one in two months later to run the full windows Vista when the salesmen assured you that it was Vista Capable. It was all about driving Christmas sales of PCs even though Vista wasn't shipping until after the holidays. Like I said, when the judge said the lawsuit has to argue whether Vista Basic is still Vista, that's a win for Microsoft. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't agree. It's still the Vista code base. It has more features and changes from XP. A BMW 3 series is still a BMW, despite it not having all of the features of the 7 series. Vista Basic is designed for cheap/low-end PC's, so it's not like they'd be able to run Aero. Is a cheap home PC going to back up to a network share? It's likely to be the only PC in the house. I'm not sure about DX10, but again, is it going to be a gaming PC with a crap video card? Games? Oh no, no Chess Titans! And Vista Meeting? What's that - the replacement for Netmeeting? Is the target demographic going to care about it? If any version of Vista will boot and run on the thing, it's Vista Capable in my book. Brian Weeden wrote: To repeat what was posted before, Basic has: * No Aero (the cool glassy GUI for Vista) * No backup to anything but local * No DirectX10 * Doesn't come with new Vista games and themes * Windows Vista Meeting not present In other words, Vista Basic has none of the features that make Vista a new OS and is very limited in how you can use it. And if your PC was labeled Vista Capable you can't run full Vista on it, only the Basic version. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation
Re: [H] Vista class action
Xp home users found out they had no coupons to upgrade to anything. I can tell you that went over like lead balloons. Sent via BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:10:41 To:hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Vista class action A $2000 computer isn't coming with Vista Basic though. Unless the upgrade coupon that came with PC's that shipped with XP Home only entitles you to Vista Home Basic... then I'd see why people are pissed. Brian Weeden wrote: I agree with you. But you'd still be pretty pissed if you spent $2,000 on a new PC in November 2007 and find out that you have to buy a new one in two months later to run the full windows Vista when the salesmen assured you that it was Vista Capable. It was all about driving Christmas sales of PCs even though Vista wasn't shipping until after the holidays. Like I said, when the judge said the lawsuit has to argue whether Vista Basic is still Vista, that's a win for Microsoft. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't agree. It's still the Vista code base. It has more features and changes from XP. A BMW 3 series is still a BMW, despite it not having all of the features of the 7 series. Vista Basic is designed for cheap/low-end PC's, so it's not like they'd be able to run Aero. Is a cheap home PC going to back up to a network share? It's likely to be the only PC in the house. I'm not sure about DX10, but again, is it going to be a gaming PC with a crap video card? Games? Oh no, no Chess Titans! And Vista Meeting? What's that - the replacement for Netmeeting? Is the target demographic going to care about it? If any version of Vista will boot and run on the thing, it's Vista Capable in my book. Brian Weeden wrote: To repeat what was posted before, Basic has: * No Aero (the cool glassy GUI for Vista) * No backup to anything but local * No DirectX10 * Doesn't come with new Vista games and themes * Windows Vista Meeting not present In other words, Vista Basic has none of the features that make Vista a new OS and is very limited in how you can use it. And if your PC was labeled Vista Capable you can't run full Vista on it, only the Basic version. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation
Re: [H] Vista class action
I'm downgrading my tablet from Vista Ultimate to XP Tablet Edition tonight. Seems to me like the XP Home users ended up getting the better end of the deal. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Xp home users found out they had no coupons to upgrade to anything. I can tell you that went over like lead balloons. Sent via BlackBerry
Re: [H] Vista class action
It is really two different issues - the Vista Ready issue and the Vista Basic issue. They were trying to wrap them all into one big lawsuit and that's what the judge said no-no to. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A $2000 computer isn't coming with Vista Basic though. Unless the upgrade coupon that came with PC's that shipped with XP Home only entitles you to Vista Home Basic... then I'd see why people are pissed. Brian Weeden wrote: I agree with you. But you'd still be pretty pissed if you spent $2,000 on a new PC in November 2007 and find out that you have to buy a new one in two months later to run the full windows Vista when the salesmen assured you that it was Vista Capable. It was all about driving Christmas sales of PCs even though Vista wasn't shipping until after the holidays. Like I said, when the judge said the lawsuit has to argue whether Vista Basic is still Vista, that's a win for Microsoft. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't agree. It's still the Vista code base. It has more features and changes from XP. A BMW 3 series is still a BMW, despite it not having all of the features of the 7 series. Vista Basic is designed for cheap/low-end PC's, so it's not like they'd be able to run Aero. Is a cheap home PC going to back up to a network share? It's likely to be the only PC in the house. I'm not sure about DX10, but again, is it going to be a gaming PC with a crap video card? Games? Oh no, no Chess Titans! And Vista Meeting? What's that - the replacement for Netmeeting? Is the target demographic going to care about it? If any version of Vista will boot and run on the thing, it's Vista Capable in my book. Brian Weeden wrote: To repeat what was posted before, Basic has: * No Aero (the cool glassy GUI for Vista) * No backup to anything but local * No DirectX10 * Doesn't come with new Vista games and themes * Windows Vista Meeting not present In other words, Vista Basic has none of the features that make Vista a new OS and is very limited in how you can use it. And if your PC was labeled Vista Capable you can't run full Vista on it, only the Basic version. - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation
Re: [H] Vista class action
Brian,
All I can offer to this discussion is, Assumption is the mother of all
future bad things.
Well, I cleaned it up a bit.. :)
Point being, Ben is correct. The Vista Capable means just the basic code
base. Nothing more.
If the buyer assumes anything else at the point of purchase; well, that
is a trip to buyer's remorse by my logic. I've already lived through this
with MS-DOS, W3.11, W95, OSR2, W98, W98se, and NT3.51. No harm, no foul.
I am still backward just because I still use W2KproSP4. Yes, I know I will
have to move forward. Someday. And, (even though I do not like it much) it
may be to WinXPspx; if it still exists. {maybe not}. My other alternatives
are OSx or some form of *nix. Of this I am sort of certain.
Best,
Duncan
At 16:57 02/25/2008 -0500, you wrote:
I agree with you. But you'd still be pretty pissed if you spent $2,000 on a
new PC in November 2007 and find out that you have to buy a new one in two
months later to run the full windows Vista when the salesmen assured you
that it was Vista Capable. It was all about driving Christmas sales of
PCs even though Vista wasn't shipping until after the holidays.
Like I said, when the judge said the lawsuit has to argue whether Vista
Basic is still Vista, that's a win for Microsoft.
-
Brian Weeden
Technical Consultant
Secure World Foundation
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't agree. It's still the Vista code base. It has more features
and changes from XP.
A BMW 3 series is still a BMW, despite it not having all of the features
of the 7 series.
Vista Basic is designed for cheap/low-end PC's, so it's not like they'd
be able to run Aero. Is a cheap home PC going to back up to a network
share? It's likely to be the only PC in the house. I'm not sure about
DX10, but again, is it going to be a gaming PC with a crap video card?
Games? Oh no, no Chess Titans! And Vista Meeting? What's that - the
replacement for Netmeeting? Is the target demographic going to care
about it?
If any version of Vista will boot and run on the thing, it's Vista
Capable in my book.
Brian Weeden wrote:
To repeat what was posted before, Basic has:
* No Aero (the cool glassy GUI for Vista)
* No backup to anything but local
* No DirectX10
* Doesn't come with new Vista games and themes
* Windows Vista Meeting not present
In other words, Vista Basic has none of the features that make Vista a
new
OS and is very limited in how you can use it. And if your PC was
labeled
Vista Capable you can't run full Vista on it, only the Basic version.
-
Brian Weeden
Technical Consultant
Secure World Foundation
Re: [H] Vista class action
There's a lot more to Vista than the few items you mentioned. I fail to see how Basic is all that limiting. I have the Home Premium edition but have never used the features that set it apart from Basic. I turned Aero off because I found it too distracting. Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (WLMail) In other words, Vista Basic has none of the features that make Vista a new OS and is very limited in how you can use it.
Re: [H] Vista class action
What were the features that Vista has over XP that made it worth the money for you to upgrade? - Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Gary VanderMolen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a lot more to Vista than the few items you mentioned. I fail to see how Basic is all that limiting. I have the Home Premium edition but have never used the features that set it apart from Basic. I turned Aero off because I found it too distracting. Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (WLMail) In other words, Vista Basic has none of the features that make Vista a new OS and is very limited in how you can use it.
Re: [H] Vista class action
I didn't upgrade. Vista came installed on a new laptop I bought recently. As a beta tester for Microsoft, I slowly became used to Vista during the beta testing phase, and now prefer it over XP. There isn't one blockbuster feature that sold me, just dozens of little things. Like when you go to rename a file, Vista doesn't highlight the file's extension because most of the time you don't want to change the extension. There are dozens of little nuggets like that. From what I'm told, Vista has a much better security posture than XP, so it should be better at resisting malware attacks. That said, I would not go out of my way to upgrade an XP PC to Vista. In order for Vista to fly it really needs modern hardware like Core 2 Duo processors. Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (WLMail) -- From: Brian Weeden [EMAIL PROTECTED] What were the features that Vista has over XP that made it worth the money for you to upgrade?
Re: [H] Vista class action
This is absolutely the most retarded thing I've ever read: These common issues ... are whether Vista Home Basic, in truth, can fairly be called 'Vista' and whether Microsoft's 'Windows Vista Capable' marketing campaign inflated demand market-wide for 'Windows Vista Capable' PCs, she wrote. Why the hell would you not call Vista Home Basic Vista? And since when has there been market demand for Vista at all? If anything, Vista has put XP in more demand. I hate lawyers. Chris Reeves wrote: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/352442_vista23.html Sent via BlackBerry by ATT
Re: [H] Vista class action
You have the Vista code base minus some features at a low price point. Chris Reeves wrote: I've often wondered how they can call Home Basic Vista also, though. Let's see, missing features: * No Aero * No backup to anything but local * No DirectX10 * Doesn't come with new Vista games and themes * Windows Vista Meeting not present * Media Center not present (OK, that's an add on) I mean, wipe out all those features, and really, do you have Vista or basically XP Home SP3?
Re: [H] Vista class action
Wait, what.. VHB doesn't have DirectX 10??? Are you sure about that? On 24 Feb 2008, at 17:34:360, Chris Reeves wrote: I've often wondered how they can call Home Basic Vista also, though. Let's see, missing features: * No Aero * No backup to anything but local * No DirectX10 * Doesn't come with new Vista games and themes * Windows Vista Meeting not present * Media Center not present (OK, that's an add on) I mean, wipe out all those features, and really, do you have Vista or basically XP Home SP3?
Re: [H] Vista class action
On the comparison guide I have from the Microsoft TS2 meeting here that's what it says. That could be wrong. Sent via BlackBerry by ATT -Original Message- From: James Boswell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:45:36 To:hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Vista class action Wait, what.. VHB doesn't have DirectX 10??? Are you sure about that? On 24 Feb 2008, at 17:34:360, Chris Reeves wrote: I've often wondered how they can call Home Basic Vista also, though. Let's see, missing features: * No Aero * No backup to anything but local * No DirectX10 * Doesn't come with new Vista games and themes * Windows Vista Meeting not present * Media Center not present (OK, that's an add on) I mean, wipe out all those features, and really, do you have Vista or basically XP Home SP3?
Re: [H] Vista class action
I've often wondered how they can call Home Basic Vista also, though. Let's see, missing features: * No Aero * No backup to anything but local * No DirectX10 * Doesn't come with new Vista games and themes * Windows Vista Meeting not present * Media Center not present (OK, that's an add on) I mean, wipe out all those features, and really, do you have Vista or basically XP Home SP3? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Ruset Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 11:30 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Vista class action This is absolutely the most retarded thing I've ever read: These common issues ... are whether Vista Home Basic, in truth, can fairly be called 'Vista' and whether Microsoft's 'Windows Vista Capable' marketing campaign inflated demand market-wide for 'Windows Vista Capable' PCs, she wrote. Why the hell would you not call Vista Home Basic Vista? And since when has there been market demand for Vista at all? If anything, Vista has put XP in more demand. I hate lawyers. Chris Reeves wrote: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/352442_vista23.html Sent via BlackBerry by ATT
Re: [H] Vista class action
Hello James, Sunday, February 24, 2008, 11:45:36 AM, you wrote: Wait, what.. VHB doesn't have DirectX 10??? Are you sure about that? I sure hope that's true. -- Regards, joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...
Re: [H] Vista class action
What is Aero?
Re: [H] Vista class action
The fancy GUI for windows Vista, that makes it look all pretty and glassy and just like a Mac. 2008/2/24 Gary [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What is Aero?
Re: [H] Vista class action
Ben, This time I am completely with you. While I may enjoy the game as it plays out, little will ever come out of this for the actual plaintiffs, except for maybe some coupons. Yes, XP is in very high demand ATM! Best, Duncan At 12:29 02/24/2008 -0500, you wrote: This is absolutely the most retarded thing I've ever read: These common issues ... are whether Vista Home Basic, in truth, can fairly be called 'Vista' and whether Microsoft's 'Windows Vista Capable' marketing campaign inflated demand market-wide for 'Windows Vista Capable' PCs, she wrote. Why the hell would you not call Vista Home Basic Vista? And since when has there been market demand for Vista at all? If anything, Vista has put XP in more demand. I hate lawyers. Chris Reeves wrote: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/352442_vista23.html Sent via BlackBerry by ATT
