Re: [hlds] Source SDK Base 2013 Multiplayer beta release

[Bjorn Wielens]

Any news on this issue?


  From: John Schoenick 
 To: Bjorn Wielens ; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server 
mailing list ; "'hlcod...@list.valvesoftware.com'" 
; "hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com" 
 
 Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 12:57 PM
 Subject: RE: [hlds] Source SDK Base 2013 Multiplayer beta release
   
#yiv0090335185 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}This is likely on our end, I'll 
take a look

- John



From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] 
on behalf of Bjorn Wielens [uniac...@yahoo.ca]
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2015 10:47 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; 
'hlcod...@list.valvesoftware.com'; hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds] Source SDK Base 2013 Multiplayer beta release

Is anyone else getting "your server needs to be restarted to receive the latest 
update" with the beta_test branch? I've run multiple validations and completely 
deleted the install directory but am still getting this. As a result any mods 
hosted aren't showing in the master server list either.


From: Eric Smith 
To: "'hlcod...@list.valvesoftware.com'" ; 
"hlds@list.valvesoftware.com" ; 
"hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com" 
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2015 10:39 PM
Subject: [hlds] Source SDK Base 2013 Multiplayer beta release

We've released a beta update for the Source SDK Base 2013 Multiplayer depot. 
The updated depots include several security fixes. The name for the beta branch 
is "beta_test". If you're running a game that depends on the Source SDK Base 
2013 Multiplayer tool, please give the beta a try and report any problems. You 
can email me directly with any problems you find.

    * Clients can opt-in to the beta using the Betas tab of the Properties 
dialog for the Source SDK Base 2013 Multiplayer tool (select "beta_test" in the 
dropdown menu)

    * Dedicated servers can find information about how to use a beta here:
    https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SteamCMD

We're also working on updates for Counter-Strike: Source, Day of Defeat: 
Source, and Half-Life 2: Deathmatch. We'll have more information about those 
soon.

Thanks.

-Eric


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds




  ___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] Source SDK Base 2013 Multiplayer beta release

[Bjorn Wielens]

Is anyone else getting "your server needs to be restarted to receive the latest 
update" with the beta_test branch? I've run multiple validations and completely 
deleted the install directory but am still getting this. As a result any mods 
hosted aren't showing in the master server list either.


  From: Eric Smith 
 To: "'hlcod...@list.valvesoftware.com'" ; 
"hlds@list.valvesoftware.com" ; 
"hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com"  
 Sent: Monday, September 7, 2015 10:39 PM
 Subject: [hlds] Source SDK Base 2013 Multiplayer beta release
   
We've released a beta update for the Source SDK Base 2013 Multiplayer depot. 
The updated depots include several security fixes. The name for the beta branch 
is "beta_test". If you're running a game that depends on the Source SDK Base 
2013 Multiplayer tool, please give the beta a try and report any problems. You 
can email me directly with any problems you find.

    * Clients can opt-in to the beta using the Betas tab of the Properties 
dialog for the Source SDK Base 2013 Multiplayer tool (select "beta_test" in the 
dropdown menu)

    * Dedicated servers can find information about how to use a beta here:
    https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SteamCMD

We're also working on updates for Counter-Strike: Source, Day of Defeat: 
Source, and Half-Life 2: Deathmatch. We'll have more information about those 
soon.

Thanks.

-Eric


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds


  ___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] Re, KF2: Update 1006

[Bjorn Wielens]

When was this released? My servers still report 1005 and steamcmd says they're 
up to date even with verify_all.


  From: Jared 
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com 
 Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 5:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Re, KF2: Update 1006
   
  Not without getting super technical on crash callstacks.  Right now we are 
gathering crash reports (via the Bugsplat tool) and working on resolving the 
most common crashes (as well as other low hanging fruit crashes).   We are 
likely to have a few "hotfix" builds like this before our first proper patch 
(with bug fixes), but one is in the works.  
 Jared Creasy
Community Relations
Tripwire Interactive On 4/23/2015 4:49 PM, Anthony Duncan wrote:
  
   
Anyone from TW able to go into more detail about patch 1006. Which fixes were 
added? Patch notes seem very brief if even a point to include them in their 
current state.    Those who haven’t seen them I’ll add what was put.    This 
update includes the following:     2 Server crash fixes  3 Client crash fixes   
 

  ___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] TF2 Quickplay Changes - How to tell if your server is Quickplay-banned?

[Bjorn Wielens]

Also, assuming your mods set their tags correctly (e.g. changed maxplayers or 
respawn rates, etc) the server would simply have been disqualified from the 
quickplay pool until the tags were removed.
Presumably, actual bans from quickplay are reserved for those that try to game 
the system.
Bjorn.
  From: Tyler O'Malley 
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com 
 Sent: Monday, December 8, 2014 12:20 AM
 Subject: [hlds] TF2 Quickplay Changes - How to tell if your server is 
Quickplay-banned?
   
Sorry if I'm not using this mailing list right, this is my first time actually 
sending a message, ever.

Several months ago the TF2 Quickplay rules were updated, some of them quite 
drastically. The changes server-side mods can make were severely restricted, 
and mods like VSH and PropHunt are right out.

Our community's TF2 server has been offline since before this happened, and 
recently we've revived it. It used to be a "fun" server, running stuff most 
decidedly not suitable for Quickplay now, and we used to turn it all off to run 
in "stock" mode and attract Quickplay players when we wanted to play actual TF2.

That is no longer possible given the new rules, and so the server has been 
switched to stock TF2 to make use of Quickplay . However, it was revived from 
an existing install, and I'm worried that the brief moment in time that it came 
online with Quickplay activated and all the mods still installed may have 
blacklisted it forevermore.

To that end, I would like to know; how can you tell if your server has been 
banned/blacklisted/whatever from TF2 Quickplay?

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds


   ___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] Mandatory TF2 update released

[Bjorn Wielens]

Silly question perhaps, but you're not running steamcmd updates while the 
server is still running from the same set of files, are you? I've seen that 
cause some _very_ weird (similar) problems on Linux systems b/c of how files 
are handled - some files get overwritten, others that are still in use do not. 
If you have autoupdate on reboot enabled it would validate and fix those files. 




 From: Ross Bemrose 
To: Bjorn Wielens ; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing 
list  
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 10:46:31 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] Mandatory TF2 update released
 


Weird thing is, it started working fine after the server crashed and 
auto-restarted.

On 6/20/2014 8:58 PM, Bjorn Wielens wrote:


>
>
>working fine on ours. 
>
>
>
>
> From: Ross Bemrose 
>To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list 
>; "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing 
>list (hlds@list.valvesoftware.com)"  
>Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 8:54:56 PM
>Subject: Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] Mandatory TF2 update released
> 
>
>Kill icons and hitsounds don't appear to be working on the
  servers I'm 
>on.  Is anyone else seeing this?
>
>On 6/20/2014 7:28 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
>> We've released a mandatory update for TF2. The notes
  for the update are below. The new version number is
  2292213.
>>
>> -Eric
>>
>> -
>>
>> - Fixed a client crash related to the B.A.S.E. Jumper
>> - Updated the prioritization method used when
  choosing which partner taunt to join such that players
  under the crosshair will have the highest priority.
>> - Fixed The Classic scope not being drawn correctly
  in DirectX 8
>> - Fixed the Tide Turner and Chargin' Targe doing
  impact damage at any range
>> - Fixed the Tide Turner refilling the Charge meter on
  any decapitation
>> - Updated the B.A.S.E. Jumper to prevent buying
  unusable upgrades in Mann vs. Machine
>> - Fixed Lugermorph animations
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view
  the list archives, please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>
>
>___
>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the
  list archives, please visit:
>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
>
>
>
>___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] Mandatory TF2 update released

[Bjorn Wielens]

working fine on ours. 




 From: Ross Bemrose 
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list 
; "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing 
list (hlds@list.valvesoftware.com)"  
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 8:54:56 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] Mandatory TF2 update released
 

Kill icons and hitsounds don't appear to be working on the servers I'm 
on.  Is anyone else seeing this?

On 6/20/2014 7:28 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
> We've released a mandatory update for TF2. The notes for the update are 
> below. The new version number is 2292213.
>
> -Eric
>
> -
>
> - Fixed a client crash related to the B.A.S.E. Jumper
> - Updated the prioritization method used when choosing which partner taunt to 
> join such that players under the crosshair will have the highest priority.
> - Fixed The Classic scope not being drawn correctly in DirectX 8
> - Fixed the Tide Turner and Chargin' Targe doing impact damage at any range
> - Fixed the Tide Turner refilling the Charge meter on any decapitation
> - Updated the B.A.S.E. Jumper to prevent buying unusable upgrades in Mann vs. 
> Machine
> - Fixed Lugermorph animations
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
> visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] Need more dedicated server for "Fistful-of-Frags" (FoF)!

[Bjorn Wielens]

Wouldn't  HLDS_ANNOUNCE be better suited and/or specifically meant for that 
sort of thing? 




 From: Ross Bemrose 
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list 
; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing 
list  
Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 8:10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] Need more dedicated server for 
"Fistful-of-Frags" (FoF)!
 

So, are you saying third-party mods shouldn't be announcing their 
hlds/srcds updates on the hlds/srcds mailing lists?

On 6/3/2014 7:04 PM, Weasels Lair wrote:
> I am not sure this list is the right place for 3rd-party games/mods to be
> announcing their updates?  Kind of thought it was more for Valve-related
> and general HLDS/SRCDS.
>
> There is a published SteamAPI update URL for Fistful-of-Frags:
>
> http://api.steampowered.com/ISteamApps/UpToDateCheck/v1?appid=265630&version=SERVER_CURRENT_VERSION_HERE&format=xml
>
> Also, it may be checked on the SteamDB page:
>
> http://steamdb.info/search/?a=app&q=Fistful
>
> Or, of course you could sign-up for e-mail alerts on SteamPing:
>
> http://steamping.com/
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 1:17 PM, big john  wrote:
>
>> Can we get some sort of update notification on the mailing list?
>>
>>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
> visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux





___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] Could not establish connection to Steam servers. (Result = 15)

[Bjorn Wielens]

What is the correct appID to use with the registration API? I only receive 
empty responses when using 295230.





 From: Jesse Molina 
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list 
; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing 
list  
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 12:19:27 AM
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Could not establish connection to Steam servers.  
(Result = 15)
 


Nevermind. My sv_setsteamaccount token was invalid, though I don't yet 
know why.




On 5/13/14, 17:36, Jesse Molina wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I set up a new Fistful of Frags server yesterday and it is generally 
> working, but it isn't listing in the server directory, and I am 
> getting the following error message after startup:
>
> Could not establish connection to Steam servers.  (Result = 15)
> Could not establish connection to Steam servers.  (Result = 15)
>
> Does anyone know what error code 15 is?
>
> My situation is slightly peculiar in that my host has multiple IPs and 
> I load many srcds servers onto a single IP across many different 
> ports. I also have a complicated firewall setup which could be the 
> cause. However, I have multiple other TF2, CSGO, CSS, HL2DM and L4D2 
> servers on this host which don't have any similar problem.
>
> I need to do a tcpdump and see if FoF is trying to do something 
> naughty, like binding to the wrong IP for some ephemeral connection.
>


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] Need more dedicated server for "Fistful-of-Frags" (FoF)!

[Bjorn Wielens]

Anyone know if the old FoF settings/"game" in HLStats still work with this new 
version?






 From: Weasels Lair 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list  
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 3:11:26 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Need more dedicated server for "Fistful-of-Frags" (FoF)!
 


I am on Linux (Debian Jessie/8), and below what I am running without any issues:

meta version
Metamod:Source version 1.11.0-dev
Build ID: 911:a2e053f9abe7-dev
Loaded As: Valve Server Plugin
Compiled on: Apr 20 2014
Plugin interface version: 15:14
SourceHook version: 5:5
http://www.metamodsource.net/
meta list
Listing 3 plugins:
  [01] SourceMod (1.6.0-dev+4337) by AlliedModders LLC
  [02] SDK Tools (1.6.0-dev+4337) by AlliedModders LLC
  [03] SteamTools (0.8.3) by Asher Baker (asherkin)




On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:18 AM, Mike Vail  wrote:

Someone on this list said they was able to load Sourcebans with MM:S and SM 
working using the latest snapshots. I took a chance and installed MM:S and SM 
on my Windows 2008 based FOF servers. I was never able to get SM to load. MMS 
did load. Prior to doing this, not a single crash. Now all four serverd have 
crashed numerous times and wouldn't auto-restart. I'm back to vanilla now and 
not a crash for the past few hours. 
>
>
>Just an FYI to you all.
>Mike
>
>Mike Vail  wrote:
>
>
>I'll throw a few up later today. Can you post a server.cfg  somewhere for us 
>to grab?
>
>Weasels Lair  wrote:
>
>
>Sorry, forgot to mention the "dedicated server" AppID for FoF is: 295230
>
>
>
>On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Weasels Lair  wrote:
>
>Any server-operators out there looking for another Source-based game to play 
>(and more importantly HOST)?
>>
>>
>>"Fistful of Frags" could use your help.  FoF launched (for FREE) on Steam 
>>yesterday, and the response has been overwhelming.
>>
>>
>>The down-side to that, is frankly there just are not enough dedicated servers 
>>to keep-up with the demand.  There are over 200 player-slots of dedicated 
>>servers - but that apparently just is not enough!
>>
>>
>>FoF is basically a "reboot" of the older FoF "sourcemod" - moved over to 
>>Steam.  The Steam version of FoF is kind-of stripped-down right now to just 
>>death-match and team-based death-match.
>>
>>
>>Even so, it is very fun to play (especially four-team DM).
>>
>>
>>However, being a free game (put-together by unpaid volunteers), the FoF dev 
>>team simply can not afford to bring-up enough servers to keep up with demand. 
>>I have personally helped-out by hosting 8 servers instances myself (up from 
>>my planned 3).
>>
>>
>>Obviously, it runs on SRCDS and uses SteamCMD/SteamPipe for 
>>installation/content delivery.  So, it essentially installs just like any 
>>SRCDS game, and is compatible with SourceMod, etc.
>>
>>
>>Steam store page (where to get client to install):
>>http://store.steampowered.com/app/265630
>>
>>
>>
>>Steam community "hub" for FoF (discussion groups, etc.):
>>http://steamcommunity.com/app/265630
>>
>>
>>
>>Steam "official" group page (update history, etc.):
>>http://steamcommunity.com/games/fof
>>
>>
>>
>>Any help appreciated!
>
>___
>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>visit:
>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Bjorn Wielens]

A fair suggestion - even better if you can create a simple page in your steam 
group explicitly for this purpose.

>If they  enjoyed playing on your server will they not be adding it to their 
>favorites?
 
Not if they can mash 'quickplay' again next time and get an identical 
experience on any number of other servers.




On Fri, 11/8/13, Jesse Oak  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
 To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" 

 Received: Friday, November 8, 2013, 10:15 AM
 
 I think a fair compromise is
 if in place of the HTML motd players were shown the servers
 group page on the steam. This way they can see the servers
 rules and have an easy way to join the community.
 
 I don't understand how someone can argue that
 quickplay is driving people away from their servers when it
 is bringing them in and then asking them if they wish to add
 it to their favorites when they leave the server. If they
 enjoyed playing on your server will they not be adding it to
 their favorites?
 
 
 On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at
 7:52 AM, Bjorn Wielens 
 wrote:
 
 If
 that was the case, we'd be swimming in players right
 now. The sad truth of it is many people just don't care,
 they click and close it.
 
 
 It's a rather vocal, but smaller portion of people that
 vehemently hate ads with a passion and DC/blacklist servers
 with MOTD ads.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Fri, 11/8/13, Alexander Z
 
 wrote:
 
 
 
  Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
 
  To: "Half-Life
 dedicated Win32 server mailing list" 
 
  Received: Friday, November 8, 2013, 9:31 AM
 
 
 
  I'm not quite sure
 
  what the OP is rambling about, but if it is about
 removing
 
  html MOTDs from quickplay, here's the answer why.
 
  A majority of people, upon seeing advertising in the
 
  MOTD, will disconnect from the server. You might get some
 ad
 
  revenue, but you're not going to get any players.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  On 8 November 2013
 
  01:11, James Haikin 
 
  wrote:
 
 
 
  What in the hell is Liquid Source talking
 
  about? This is a video game, not the presidency. Good
 
  lord.
 
  -James
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at
 
  4:00 PM, Weasel's Lair 
 
  wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  IMH(f)O, variety is a big deal.  Different server
 
  operators, with
 
 
 
  different tastes, results in different communities, to
 suit
 
  different
 
 
 
  players tastes.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  However, some players only like to play stock maps and
 deal
 
  with a
 
 
 
  pre-defined world-view of what is possible/expected in
 the
 
  behaviour
 
 
 
  game.  QuickPlay helps those players/noobs/whatever find
 
  what they
 
 
 
  want.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  So, I definately see the value in QuickPlay.  I just
 wish
 
  there was
 
 
 
  more of an equal footing between QuickPlay and
 non-QuickPlay
 
  in the
 
 
 
  interface.  Maybe there should be two equal-size /
 
  equally-marketed
 
 
 
  buttons - "Find QuickPlay Game" and "Find
 
  Customized Game" or
 
 
 
  something like that.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  From a playing perspective, I think servers the enforce
 
  something that
 
 
 
  the player can not close (and have the audio stop when it
 
  closes) is a
 
 
 
  very bad thing.  I think the MOTD changes aren't
 
  targeting
 
 
 
  advertising/donation schilling necessarily - so much as
 that
 
  "WTF? I
 
 
 
  can't close this shiz and start playing right
 now?"
 
  effect.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  On a side note, if you are paying $30 for a server that
 can
 
  only host
 
 
 
  a single TF2 dedicated server instance - you are paying
 too
 
  much!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  I am using a VPS provider and paying that much - but able
 to
 
  host
 
 
 
  multiple instances of TF2 (32-player), CS:S and several
 
  GoldSrc
 
 
 
  stufff.  Contrary to what I expected, my VPS is working
 
  better than
 
 
 
  any normal "dedicated" I have ever rented.  I
 
  also found that VPS's
 
 
 
  hosted on Virtuozzo or OpenVZ perform better than KVM
 ones
 
  (even with
 
 
 
  specific resources "dedicated" to the KVM
 machine)
 
  - again, the
 
 
 
  opposite of what I expected.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  ___
 
 
 
  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the
 list
 
  archives, please visit:
 
 
 
  https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  ___
 
 
 
  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the
 list
 
  archives, please visit:
 
 
 
  https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  -Inline Attachment Follows-
 
 
 
  ___
 
  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the
 list
 
  archives, pl

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Bjorn Wielens]

If that was the case, we'd be swimming in players right now. The sad truth of 
it is many people just don't care, they click and close it.
It's a rather vocal, but smaller portion of people that vehemently hate ads 
with a passion and DC/blacklist servers with MOTD ads.



On Fri, 11/8/13, Alexander Z  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
 To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" 

 Received: Friday, November 8, 2013, 9:31 AM
 
 I'm not quite sure
 what the OP is rambling about, but if it is about removing
 html MOTDs from quickplay, here's the answer why.
 A majority of people, upon seeing advertising in the
 MOTD, will disconnect from the server. You might get some ad
 revenue, but you're not going to get any players.
 
 
 
 On 8 November 2013
 01:11, James Haikin 
 wrote:
 
 What in the hell is Liquid Source talking
 about? This is a video game, not the presidency. Good
 lord.
 -James
 
 
 
 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at
 4:00 PM, Weasel's Lair 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 IMH(f)O, variety is a big deal.  Different server
 operators, with
 
 different tastes, results in different communities, to suit
 different
 
 players tastes.
 
 
 
 However, some players only like to play stock maps and deal
 with a
 
 pre-defined world-view of what is possible/expected in the
 behaviour
 
 game.  QuickPlay helps those players/noobs/whatever find
 what they
 
 want.
 
 
 
 So, I definately see the value in QuickPlay.  I just wish
 there was
 
 more of an equal footing between QuickPlay and non-QuickPlay
 in the
 
 interface.  Maybe there should be two equal-size /
 equally-marketed
 
 buttons - "Find QuickPlay Game" and "Find
 Customized Game" or
 
 something like that.
 
 
 
 From a playing perspective, I think servers the enforce
 something that
 
 the player can not close (and have the audio stop when it
 closes) is a
 
 very bad thing.  I think the MOTD changes aren't
 targeting
 
 advertising/donation schilling necessarily - so much as that
 "WTF? I
 
 can't close this shiz and start playing right now?"
 effect.
 
 
 
 On a side note, if you are paying $30 for a server that can
 only host
 
 a single TF2 dedicated server instance - you are paying too
 much!
 
 
 
 I am using a VPS provider and paying that much - but able to
 host
 
 multiple instances of TF2 (32-player), CS:S and several
 GoldSrc
 
 stufff.  Contrary to what I expected, my VPS is working
 better than
 
 any normal "dedicated" I have ever rented.  I
 also found that VPS's
 
 hosted on Virtuozzo or OpenVZ perform better than KVM ones
 (even with
 
 specific resources "dedicated" to the KVM machine)
 - again, the
 
 opposite of what I expected.
 
 
 
 ___
 
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
 archives, please visit:
 
 https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
 
 
 
 
 ___
 
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
 archives, please visit:
 
 https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
 
 
 
 
 
 -Inline Attachment Follows-
 
 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
 archives, please visit:
 https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
 

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Bjorn Wielens]

Most people here aren't saying they don't agree with the need to do something 
about the abuse, just that the way valve chose to resolve the problem
also severely impacts people that use MOTDs legitimately and leaves them little 
to no way to make their server stand out to anyone that 
visits the server. THAT is what people are angry about. 



On Thu, 11/7/13, Lucas Wagner  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
 To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" 

 Received: Thursday, November 7, 2013, 6:02 PM
 
 In my opinion, Jason
 nailed this.  Organically growing your community is the
 best (and in my opinion) most honest way to pay your
 bills.  Put out a truly excellent product and people will
 support it with their money.  See FirePowered gaming for a
 good example of an organically grown community.  
 
 
 I think Valve is saying by this update that they
 agree; Quickplay is not to be used to farm ad-impressions. 
 If they have a great product the ad-impressions will come
 from returning regulars who have added your servers to their
 favorites.  Finding a loophole and exploiting just puts
 yourself at risk, just like people who purchased hundreds of
 idle accounts.  
 
 
 I think this decision was excellent and I'd like to see
 Valve more vigorously enforce the policy of truth going
 forward.
 
 
 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at
 3:07 PM, Jason Tango 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 Your cite Skial as an example, but what
 you fail to realize is that those large server groups only
 have those large number of servers because they are/were
 trying to use the quickplay system as a source of profit
 over and above their "expenses", NOT as a response
 to the natural growth in their "communities."
 
 In other words - those kinds of communities did
 not grow "organically", starting with just enough
 servers to support their current membership, and adding
 servers as their community grew. They threw up those huge
 numbers of servers as nothing more than "quickplay ad
 farms", turning the playerbase into little more than
 disposable ad impressions. Do you honestly think any of
 those groups have the massive community membership necessary
 to require 80+ servers? Of course not.
 
 Do you see the distinction? 
 There are server operators who have slowly and
 consistently grown their server "regulars", adding
 to their server fleets as both their membership and funding
 permitted, and there are those that simply threw up
 high-volume "quickplay honey pot" fleets of
 ad-farms/servers with the intent of turning the players into
 an easy source of profit.
 
 Now,  I'm not looking down my nose at Skial
 (I don't really know anything about them), or any other
 of these large server fleets, BUT - the fact is that most
 new players first few experiences with the game will be
 through quickplay, and the vast number of these ad-farms
 (many of which were hosted by the hundreds on cheap,
 under-powered VPS servers) are/were giving these players a
 very negative first impression of the game.
 
 While I don't necessarily agree with HOW
 Valve has fixed the problem (as I think it stinks that ALL
 server operators have to be made to suffer due to the
 actions of those abusing the system), I'm certainly glad
 Valve is taking steps to at least insure new players
 don't think that these ad-infested servers are the way
 ALL servers are run.
 
 
 
 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 21:24:00 +0100
 From: sai...@specialattack.net
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 
 Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about
 MOTDs
 
 Forced
 in-game ads are evil.
  You’ve already
 paid for the game, why watch ads?
  There never was such
 a problem until quickplay and motd allowing
 video.
  Build a good
 community and likable servers, and you shall have your money
 through donations. We haven’t done it any differently in
 the past 15 years and we’re still doing so
 today.
  People are willing
 to donate bits for a fun community to play at who has their
 own servers up and running.
  The whole problem
 here is quickplay, you have tons of people roaming around
 random servers without an real good opportunity to bind them
 to your community. Before people would search for likable
 servers and add them to their favorites. These people would
 then return and start to get familiar with other people at
 the servers. This allowed for great community
 building.
  Unfortunately I
 don’t expect VALVe ever to turn off quickplay. That’s
 why I think communities will slowly start to die
 out.
  I can remember days
 where 90% of the players in a server had a clan/community
 tag In front of their name, nowadays you barely ever see
 them.
  Saint K.
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]
 On Behalf Of Supreet
 
 Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:58 PM
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about
 MOTDs
  Valve,
 Listen. People make goo

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Bjorn Wielens]

By the same logic, you've already paid for your tv, why should you have to 
watch ads in your tv shows?
You've already paid for your internet connection, why should you have to see 
ads anywhere online?

Or are you already campaigning against both of those as well, when you know 
full well that you're using what you've paid for to 
receive a SERVICE which has seen exactly ZERO of the money you spent on the 
initial product?

If we lived in a magical fairy-land, then yes, everyone could afford to run 
based on donations alone. 
Welcome to the real world, where that is not the case. Especially for 
communities that are just starting up or looking for
some extra funds to expand or do stuff for their members. 




On Thu, 11/7/13, Saint K.  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
 To: "'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'" 

 Received: Thursday, November 7, 2013, 4:24 PM
 
 Forced in-game ads are
 evil.  You’ve already paid for the
 game, why watch ads?  There never was such a problem
 until quickplay and motd allowing video.  Build a good community and
 likable servers, and you shall have your money through
 donations. We haven’t done it any differently in the past
 15 years and we’re still doing so today.  People are willing to donate
 bits for a fun community to play at who has their own
 servers up and running.  The whole problem here is
 quickplay, you have tons of people roaming around random
 servers without an real good opportunity to bind them to
 your community. Before people would search for likable
 servers and add them to their favorites. These people would
 then return and start to get familiar with other people at
 the servers. This allowed for great community
 building.  Unfortunately I don’t expect
 VALVe ever to turn off quickplay. That’s why I think
 communities will slowly start to die out.  I can remember days where 90%
 of the players in a server had a clan/community tag In front
 of their name, nowadays you barely ever see
 them.  Saint K.From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of
 Supreet
 Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:58 PM
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about
 MOTDs
  Valve,Listen. People make good money off
 of running their TF2 servers. Moreover, it helps them pay
 for the servers. Why don't you just take all our
 liberty away, pull an EA and cut dedicated servers and host
 them all yourself?Quickplay has only been beneficial
 to free to play players or what I like to call "Window
 Gamers". They try a game because its free then after a
 while they leave the game because they're bored of
 hopping on random servers through quick play and finding ads
 everywhere.The liberty and freedom of browsing
 through a server list was an amazing idea so you should keep
 to it.Your quick play scoring system is pretty stupid
 and flawed. Why? Because its HEAVILY BIASED.Over
 time, there's just been servers that get a behemoth
 influx of players and and the quick play system starts
 favoring them. Therefore, ignoring the possibility of any
 potentially better servers people might like if they ended
 up on them.You should really consider stopping your
 shenanigans. You can't make up your own mind Valve. You
 released an update months ago with vague release notes about
 the removal of HTML motds then you modified it and now you
 just released another update. 
 If you really cared about the game server operators, you
 would remove this bs "tweak" and give server
 operators the liberty to use methods to recovery money to
 cover costs and pocket money for their
 efforts.ORBuild a better dedicated server that
 doesn't eat up so many resources so server operators
 don't have to pay $30 a month for a single server to a
 hosting company. There are communities that run great
 servers and multiple of them. Imagine the frikkin cost of
 servers Skial has to deal with, with their massive 80
 something servers. These ads help pay for these
 expensive DDoS protected servers hosted by big
 communities.A lot of concerned people have offered
 their tiny bits of tweaks and solutions to your update but
 it will never stop. Either pull an EA and remove
 MOTDs overall, doom us all so we can get some closure and
 move on LOL or let server operators have the freedom to run
 their server the way they want.Why don't you just
 work with the ad companies and get them to make a variable
 that tells the quickplay system read if the server is ad
 enabled, or maybe through sv_tags and DEDUCT score off of
 quickplay.It'll make all the complaining kids
 happy. 50% less chance I'll end up on an ad enabled
 server.Many thanks and regards.Please
 contribute to this discussion in a professional and
 cognitively inclined manner and refrain from being monkeys
 yelling at each other on the mailing
 list.
 -Inline Attachment Follows-
 
 _

Re: [hlds] Blocked non-valve server in hosts file causes TF2 to hang

[Bjorn Wielens]

I think what he meant was if you're already at 25/24 and another donator wants 
to join... they will have to wait if you don't kick, unless you add more 
reserved slots. 

From a practical standpoint though, 2-3 reserved slots of this non-kick nature 
will probably do the job unless you have large numbers of donators that want to 
get into a full server at any given time.







 From: Mart-Jan Reeuwijk 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list  
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:58:51 AM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocked non-valve server in hosts file causes TF2 to hang
 


You dont NEED to kick for donators to let them join.

- Donator joins in hidden admin slot.
- server has 25 instead of 24 players.
- another player leaves out of their own free will.
- Server is back down to 24 slots.

I've seen that type a lot around, so why aren't you doing it so?
Kicking players is one of the most annoying things for said player, at least be 
decent with them then. They come back, for they didn't get kicked.




>________
> From: Bjorn Wielens 
>To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
> 
>Sent: Tuesday, 20 August 2013, 15:33
>Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocked non-valve server in hosts file causes TF2 to hang
> 
>
>
>>>No kicking for reserved slots is a non-starter. You can't ask for 
servers that don't allow advertising to then also make the people who 
pay the bills (through donations) stand in line to play on the server 
they are paying for.
>
>
>I agree it shouldn't be an excluding item, but there's no reason not to have 
>it as a "filter" option in said list. 
>
>
>
>Such a compiled list is a nice idea and it might well bring in some extra 
>traffic. From what I see on our servers (we don't do the frowned-upon things 
>in the list below) people _like_ the way they're run, but we're still trying 
>to get over the "magic number" of regulars to have servers that fill 
>frequently.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: E. Olsen 
>To: Mart-Jan Reeuwijk ; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server 
>mailing list  
>Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:16:01 AM
>Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocked non-valve server in hosts file causes TF2 to hang
> 
>
>
>No kicking for reserved slots is a non-starter. You can't ask for servers that 
>don't allow advertising to then also make the people who pay the bills 
>(through donations) stand in line to play on the server they are paying for.
>
>
>I really don't understand Valve's thinking on this one - it's such an easy 
>fix: Use pinion = no quickplay traffic. All that's happening now is that 
>hundreds of "throwaway" vanilla servers are being thrown up everyday and using 
>fake clients to get quickplay to fill them up, all in order to get pinion ad 
>impressions. When Valve delists them, they just throw them back up on another 
>IP/steam account.
>
>
>Take away the easy traffic, you take away the problem.
>
>
>For the users, however, the solution is an easy one - find server(s) you like, 
>favorite them, and only play there (same as it ever was).
>
>
>
>On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk  wrote:
>
>Maybe an idea to start instead of "blacklisting" the servers that ARE running 
>the pinion plugin, we should have a White-list of servers/mods that are NOT 
>running them.
>>
>>The Whitehat Community Servers list, so you will ;)
>>
>>If doing it with the info:
>>
>>Continent - Country(hosted in) - Community Name - Mod (CSS GG, TF2-Vanilla, 
>>TF2-FreakFortress, TF2-Dodgeball, TF2-Trade, TF2-Dodgeball Classic, 
>>TF2-Versus Saxton Hale, etc ) -  -  -  
>>steam://connect/: - Instant(0 sec)/fast(5 sec)/normal respawn.
>>
>>And whatever else would be interesting (# of players currently on server? 
>>SteamRep? SMAC? Wait enabled? competition config? stats gameme/hlx? etc.)
>>
>>Players can choose their servers, maybe also by selecting "filters" on 
>>continent, country,
 game, mod, map. Granted that those servers have resources to actually run the 
games smoothly, and are not being c***s with their donation stuff with kicking 
players when those join. it must be a list of servers with good performance and 
a pleasant experience. 
>>
>>
>>
>>Add some handy links like backpack.tf, tf2 wiki, etc, and tell players how to 
>>put that as a default 
steam overlay webpage. Some cookies for their preferences and geoIP to find 
their country and show only the servers in their country and neightbouring 
countries, and off they 
go. 
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [hlds] Blocked non-valve server in hosts file causes TF2 to hang

[Bjorn Wielens]

>>No kicking for reserved slots is a non-starter. You can't ask for 
servers that don't allow advertising to then also make the people who 
pay the bills (through donations) stand in line to play on the server 
they are paying for.

I agree it shouldn't be an excluding item, but there's no reason not to have it 
as a "filter" option in said list. 


Such a compiled list is a nice idea and it might well bring in some extra 
traffic. >From what I see on our servers (we don't do the frowned-upon things 
in the list below) people _like_ the way they're run, but we're still trying to 
get over the "magic number" of regulars to have servers that fill frequently.






 From: E. Olsen 
To: Mart-Jan Reeuwijk ; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server 
mailing list  
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:16:01 AM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocked non-valve server in hosts file causes TF2 to hang
 


No kicking for reserved slots is a non-starter. You can't ask for servers that 
don't allow advertising to then also make the people who pay the bills (through 
donations) stand in line to play on the server they are paying for.

I really don't understand Valve's thinking on this one - it's such an easy fix: 
Use pinion = no quickplay traffic. All that's happening now is that hundreds of 
"throwaway" vanilla servers are being thrown up everyday and using fake clients 
to get quickplay to fill them up, all in order to get pinion ad impressions. 
When Valve delists them, they just throw them back up on another IP/steam 
account.

Take away the easy traffic, you take away the problem.

For the users, however, the solution is an easy one - find server(s) you like, 
favorite them, and only play there (same as it ever was).



On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk  wrote:

Maybe an idea to start instead of "blacklisting" the servers that ARE running 
the pinion plugin, we should have a White-list of servers/mods that are NOT 
running them.
>
>The Whitehat Community Servers list, so you will ;)
>
>If doing it with the info:
>
>Continent - Country(hosted in) - Community Name - Mod (CSS GG, TF2-Vanilla, 
>TF2-FreakFortress, TF2-Dodgeball, TF2-Trade, TF2-Dodgeball Classic, TF2-Versus 
>Saxton Hale, etc ) -  -  -  
>steam://connect/: - Instant(0 sec)/fast(5 sec)/normal respawn.
>
>And whatever else would be interesting (# of players currently on server? 
>SteamRep? SMAC? Wait enabled? competition config? stats gameme/hlx? etc.)
>
>Players can choose their servers, maybe also by selecting "filters" on 
>continent, country,
 game, mod, map. Granted that those servers have resources to actually run the 
games smoothly, and are not being c***s with their donation stuff with kicking 
players when those join. it must be a list of servers with good performance and 
a pleasant experience. 
>
>
>
>Add some handy links like backpack.tf, tf2 wiki, etc, and tell players how to 
>put that as a default 
steam overlay webpage. Some cookies for their preferences and geoIP to find 
their country and show only the servers in their country and neightbouring 
countries, and off they 
go. 
>
>
>
>One thing tho, it should have no preference for a comm. and if found not 
>truthful, forever ban.
>
>
>Shouldn't be hard to set up, and wherever players are, we can then point them 
>to the list with good servers. The servers should adhere to some rules:
>
>
>- No pinion, ever. Having a community MOTD with rules/info of their comm is 
>fine. Mentioning they are member of the "white-hat" comm's would be asked for. 
>
>- No kicking of players for donator slots. (use hidden slots to "soft" allow 
>them in, and when one leaves the number is ok again)
>
>- Having a audio file run at start of joining the server is fine, but not for 
>x minutes or repeatedly or random during game.
>
>- May or may not be in quickplay. some servers won't be eligible for it, but 
>the idea is not favoring quickplay.
>- Must list maintainer of the list. 
>
>- No alterations, so if having all vanilla but 
>
>- No server tag(s) for being on the whitehat server list, will only cause 
>other servers to add it without being on the list. (and less work to not have 
>to add that to the servers ;) )
>
>- Donators may not have extra's that are game-changing (exception for trade 
>servers), giving them advantage over non-donators.
>
>
>Just spouting the idea, needs working out if implementing but I actually like 
>it. For if you see for example on spuf a player complaining, you can direct 'm 
>to that list and be done with it. (instead of having to ask where he's located 
>on this planet to find that your server is on the

Re: [hlds] Blocked non-valve server in hosts file causes TF2 to hang

[Bjorn Wielens]

Part of it is probably the sheer number of servers running pinion that makes it 
hard to find the ones that dont?

For all the complaining and groaning about it I hear/see here and elsewhere... 
those of us that don't use it should be rolling in  players... but I can't say 
that's the case on our servers :/







 From: ics 
To: Mart-Jan Reeuwijk ; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server 
mailing list  
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:26:02 AM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocked non-valve server in hosts file causes TF2 to hang
 

That just makes you part of the problem, helping those servers thrive 
and receive more players through matchmaking. It's best just blacklist 
and avoid + find a proper server.

Every single day i hear and read people complain about Pinion. I just 
don't get it why annoy players with running such crap on the server.

-ics

Mart-Jan Reeuwijk kirjoitti:
> Indeed, those servers try to earn money by forcing views on the 
> players on the server.
>
> You can prevent the "hanging" by using:
>
> connect  matchmaking
>
> so, if the server IP is 12.23.34.45 and port is 27015 you type in console:
>
> connect 12.23.34.45:27015 matchmaking
>
> and you wont be "hanging" for then the game blocks forced opening of 
> the MOTD.
>
>     
>     *From:* mike bradford <007g...@gmail.com>
>     *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>     
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, 20 August 2013, 6:34
>     *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Blocked non-valve server in hosts file
>     causes TF2 to hang
>
>     It is the pinion plugin forcing you to wait at the page that your
>     hosts file blocks. It happens anyone that tries to connect to a
>     pinion enabled server.
>
>
>     On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 11:26 PM, Chad Hedstrom
>     mailto:chad.hedst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         I have motd.pinion.gg  blocked by my
>         administrator at the firewall, it causes my game to hang for
>         10-30 seconds at the beginning of each round. I have checked
>         and don't think this domain is owned by Valve. I can reproduce
>         this problem on multiple computers. Is anyone else having this
>         problem? It seems to be that specific domain. It seems to get
>         stuck at the loading screen and I can't get to the team or
>         class selection screen for 10-30 seconds, it seems to vary.
>
>         Thanks.
>
>         ___
>         To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>         archives, please visit:
>        https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
>
>     ___
>     To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>     archives, please visit:
>    https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
> visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] Fake Client Fool

[Bjorn Wielens]

One of my observations is that people are probably getting frustrated with the 
lack of attention or comments on the matter. I'm sure valve knows about the 
issue, but not a lot seems to be done. I have admins on my staff that are 
getting extremely frustrated because they go to Quickplay, and end up in a 
string of servers that abuse the system (which they F7) and the folks running 
"proper" servers get the short end of the stick because it feels like these 
unscrupulous individuals are "stealing" traffic from the legitimate operators. 






 From: Jason Tango 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list  
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 8:43:50 AM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Fake Client Fool
 


 



If people want to spend their time as the "quickplay police force", that's fine 
by me - but I believe Valve has said on numerous occasions that this mailing 
list is not the place to "name and shame" other server operators. There are 
proper venues for reporting perceived violations, and this list isn't one o f 
them.

Do I think people who aren't setting the proper tags should be dropped from 
quickplay? Absolutely.but pointing fingers in a public forum just leads to 
the more nefarious readers of this list into doing things (like attacking the 
servers/community in question) against operators that may or may not be doing 
anything wrong. It's easy to accuse people (and equally easy to falsify 
"evidence") - but the only people here whose responsibility to dole out 
punishment should be the Valve team.

So - how about we have enough respect for each other to use the proper channels 
for these reports, as opposed to starting virtual witch hunts.
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] TF2 server performance spikes

[Bjorn Wielens]

I will attempt to get a few vprof dumps and post them here.



 From: Fletcher Dunn 
To: "hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com" ; 
Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list  
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 2:09:14 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux]  TF2 server performance spikes
 

Has anybody used vprof spike mode?  This sort of problem is pretty much exactly 
what it was designed to investigate.

E.g.

vprof_on
vprof_dump_spikes 20       // dump a vprof report if frame rate drops below 20

If the problem is caused by network traffic, using the -netspike command line 
argument can also be used to dig deeper into exactly what entity data is being 
sent.

If you have a report and you don't know how to interpret it, you can email it 
to me or post it here, I'm sure there are some people who can help analyze it.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Bjorn Wielens
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 9:42 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; 
hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF2 server performance spikes

Correct, I was one of the folks discussing this in the last round of messages 
and we run on Linux. Since my last message about having disabled replays I 
still get occasional hiccups in a full server, but nowhere near as bad as 
before, owing to the lack of replay overhead.

I'd be happy to run diagnostics if they were available for Linux, but alas 
that's not the case.




From: Alex Kowald 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 1:16:04 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 server performance spikes



You are only accepting traces for windows servers correct? Some of the people 
that have complained are running linux. I have the issue myself on two 
independent servers. We get this new game studder after upgrading, leaving 
everything else the same.



On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Fletcher Dunn  
wrote:

I do have a theory about the cause of the CPU spikes.  I’ll release a build 
with the next mandatory update (which will probably be this afternoon) that I 
think could address the problem.  But since we are not reproducing the problem 
here, this is just a theory, not disciplined engineering.
> 
>In order to conduct disciplined engineering, we need data from those who are 
>able to reproduce it.  Judging by the amount of discussion this problem has 
>generated and the relatively small amount of effort that is required in order 
>to get the data to us,  I’m really surprised we haven’t received more traces. 
> 
>I have given out vtrace keys to every person who has asked for one.  So far we 
>have received traces from exactly two (2) server operators.  One server 
>operator had processor affinities set, the other was running a high number of 
>instances per core, such that the average CPU utilization was high and there 
>was no headroom for more than one process to spike.
> 
> 
>___
>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>visit:
>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] TF2 server performance spikes

[Bjorn Wielens]

Correct, I was one of the folks discussing this in the last round of messages 
and we run on Linux. 
Since my last message about having disabled replays I still get occasional 
hiccups in a full server, but nowhere near as bad as before, owing to the lack 
of replay overhead.

I'd be happy to run diagnostics if they were available for Linux, but alas 
that's not the case.




 From: Alex Kowald 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list  
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 1:16:04 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 server performance spikes
 


You are only accepting traces for windows servers correct? Some of the people 
that have complained are running linux. I have the issue myself on two 
independent servers. We get this new game studder after upgrading, leaving 
everything else the same.



On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Fletcher Dunn  
wrote:

I do have a theory about the cause of the CPU spikes.  I’ll release a build 
with the next mandatory update (which will probably be this afternoon) that I 
think could address the problem.  But since we are not reproducing the problem 
here, this is just a theory, not disciplined engineering.
> 
>In order to conduct disciplined engineering, we need data from those who are 
>able to reproduce it.  Judging by the amount of discussion this problem has 
>generated and the relatively small amount of effort that is required in order 
>to get the data to us,  I’m really surprised we haven’t received more traces. 
> 
>I have given out vtrace keys to every person who has asked for one.  So far we 
>have received traces from exactly two (2) server operators.  One server 
>operator had processor affinities set, the other was running a high number of 
>instances per core, such that the average CPU utilization was high and there 
>was no headroom for more than one process to spike.
> 
> 
>___
>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>visit:
>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] Mandatory update to TF2 SteamPipe beta released

[Bjorn Wielens]

I suspect I've found the culprits of the crashes, heads up if you are running 
afk_manager or superlogs_tf2 plugins, both of these caused server crashes 
immediately after joining a team for me. (Linux server)




 From: Fletcher Dunn 
To: 'Bjorn Wielens'  
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 9:17:58 PM
Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Mandatory update to TF2 SteamPipe beta released
 

What's your server's IP?

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Bjorn Wielens
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:17 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; 
hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Mandatory update to TF2 SteamPipe beta released

Unfortunately I'm now having (still sm_related) issues with a server crash 
immediately on a client joining a team, despite running the beta gamedata.
Linux server, BTW. Anyone else having this or already know of the cause/fix?




From: Ryan Stecker 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list  
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:50:59 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Mandatory update to TF2 SteamPipe beta released



For updated gamedata that's compatible with steampipe, see: 
https://github.com/RavuAlHemio/sourcemod-beta-gamedata

It's an unofficial repo, so your mileage may vary, but I've had reports from 
multiple people that the gamedata is up to date with steampipe.
 



On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 3:29 PM, thesupremecommander  
wrote:

Yes, indeed, although I would point out that Valve's already told server owners 
to convert to SteamPipe in preparation for the update anyway, but that's not 
something to be argued over the mailing list.
>
>
>I think there is some beta gamedata floating around somewhere that I'll try 
>out to see whether the issues are fixed.
>
>
>
>On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 4:20 PM, DontWannaName!  wrote:
>
>From what I understand there needs to be updated game data for steam pipe but 
>they can't be synced in SM until its released. 
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone 5
>>
>>On Apr 25, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Bjorn Wielens  wrote:
>>
>>
>>It seems that any plugins using GetPlayerEyePosition() are casing crashes. 
>>Spraytrace is one example. I would imagine SMAC has a component that does so 
>>as well. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: thesupremecommander 
>>>To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
>>> 
>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:40:34 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [hlds] Mandatory update to TF2 SteamPipe beta released
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>I'll try reverting, then, but I did try dropping in the latest SM 1.5 
>>>snapshot earlier to no avail. I'll probably just stick with the core plugins 
>>>until I can do more extensive testing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 9:07 PM, Nicholas Hastings 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>SM does not officially 
support the beta version yet and will not until closer to its release, 
else it would be broken for the release version of the game.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-- 
>>>>Nicholas Hastings
>>>>AlliedMods.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>thesupremecommander
>>>>>Wednesday, April 
24, 2013 9:04 PM
>>>>>Is anybody 
getting constant crashing with SourceMod? I seem to be getting the 
standard segfault whenever someone joins the server and can't pin it 
onto any one plugin, although crashing consistently disappears when I 
strip down to the latest SM 1.6 and MM:S 1.10 snapshots.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-- 
>>>>>
>>>>>thesupremecommander (Steam)
>>>>>Chief Admin, SPUFserver
>>>>>Chief Admin, OverPowered League
>>>>>
>>>>>___
>>>>>To unsubscribe, 
edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
>>>>>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Fletcher Dunn
>>>>>Tuesday, April 
23, 2013 2:12 PM
>>>>>A mandatory update to the 
TF2 SteamPipe beta has been released.  Although the update is 
"mandatory" (the PatchVersion ha

Re: [hlds] Mandatory update to TF2 SteamPipe beta released

[Bjorn Wielens]

Unfortunately I'm now having (still sm_related) issues with a server crash 
immediately on a client joining a team, despite running the beta gamedata.
Linux server, BTW. Anyone else having this or already know of the cause/fix?




 From: Ryan Stecker 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list  
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:50:59 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Mandatory update to TF2 SteamPipe beta released
 


For updated gamedata that's compatible with steampipe, see: 
https://github.com/RavuAlHemio/sourcemod-beta-gamedata

It's an unofficial repo, so your mileage may vary, but I've had reports from 
multiple people that the gamedata is up to date with steampipe.
 



On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 3:29 PM, thesupremecommander  
wrote:

Yes, indeed, although I would point out that Valve's already told server owners 
to convert to SteamPipe in preparation for the update anyway, but that's not 
something to be argued over the mailing list.
>
>
>I think there is some beta gamedata floating around somewhere that I'll try 
>out to see whether the issues are fixed.
>
>
>
>On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 4:20 PM, DontWannaName!  wrote:
>
>From what I understand there needs to be updated game data for steam pipe but 
>they can't be synced in SM until its released. 
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone 5
>>
>>On Apr 25, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Bjorn Wielens  wrote:
>>
>>
>>It seems that any plugins using GetPlayerEyePosition() are casing crashes. 
>>Spraytrace is one example. I would imagine SMAC has a component that does so 
>>as well. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: thesupremecommander 
>>>To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
>>> 
>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:40:34 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [hlds] Mandatory update to TF2 SteamPipe beta released
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>I'll try reverting, then, but I did try dropping in the latest SM 1.5 
>>>snapshot earlier to no avail. I'll probably just stick with the core plugins 
>>>until I can do more extensive testing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 9:07 PM, Nicholas Hastings 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>SM does not officially 
support the beta version yet and will not until closer to its release, 
else it would be broken for the release version of the game.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-- 
>>>>Nicholas Hastings
>>>>AlliedMods.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>thesupremecommander
>>>>>Wednesday, April 
24, 2013 9:04 PM
>>>>>Is anybody 
getting constant crashing with SourceMod? I seem to be getting the 
standard segfault whenever someone joins the server and can't pin it 
onto any one plugin, although crashing consistently disappears when I 
strip down to the latest SM 1.6 and MM:S 1.10 snapshots.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-- 
>>>>>
>>>>>thesupremecommander (Steam)
>>>>>Chief Admin, SPUFserver
>>>>>Chief Admin, OverPowered League
>>>>>
>>>>>___
>>>>>To unsubscribe, 
edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
>>>>>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Fletcher Dunn
>>>>>Tuesday, April 
23, 2013 2:12 PM
>>>>>A mandatory update to the 
TF2 SteamPipe beta has been released.  Although the update is 
"mandatory" (the PatchVersion has been bumped so you will need to 
upgrade your server in order to host clients running the latest 
version), your server will not automatically restart.
>>>>>
>>>>>Team 
Fortress 2:
>>>>>* Synced with release version of game
>>>>>
>>>>>Source 
engine:
>>>>>* VPK tool: Fixed bug with drag-and-drop creating bogus VPK 
files that could not be located by the engine.
>>>>>* Default mapcycle 
file moved to cstrike/cfg/mapcyclefile_default.txt.  It will be loaded 
if no mapcycle.txt file can be found and convar is set to default name.
>>>>>*
 Mapcycle file will be loaded from cstrike/cfg directory if it exists, 
falling back to root cstrike directory otherwise.
>>>>>* Mapcycle file can
 be loaded

Re: [hlds] Mandatory update to TF2 SteamPipe beta released

[Bjorn Wielens]

It seems that any plugins using GetPlayerEyePosition() are casing crashes. Spraytrace is one example. I would imagine SMAC has a component that does so as well. From:
 thesupremecommander  To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list   Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:40:34 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Mandatory update to TF2 SteamPipe beta released   I'll try reverting, then, but I did try dropping in the latest SM 1.5 snapshot earlier to no avail. I'll probably just stick with the core plugins until I can do more extensive testing.
On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 9:07 PM, Nicholas Hastings  wrote:


SM does not officially 
support the beta version yet and will not until closer to its release, 
else it would be broken for the release version of the game.

-- Nicholas Hastings
AlliedMods.net





   	
   
   	thesupremecommander   
   
  Wednesday, April 
24, 2013 9:04 PM
  Is anybody 
getting constant crashing with SourceMod? I seem to be getting the 
standard segfault whenever someone joins the server and can't pin it 
onto any one plugin, although crashing consistently disappears when I 
strip down to the latest SM 1.6 and MM:S 1.10 snapshots.
-- thesupremecommander
 (Steam)
Chief Admin, SPUFserver

Chief
 Admin, OverPowered League



___To unsubscribe, 
edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

   	
   
   	Fletcher Dunn   
   
  Tuesday, April 
23, 2013 2:12 PM
  A mandatory update to the 
TF2 SteamPipe beta has been released.  Although the update is 
"mandatory" (the PatchVersion has been bumped so you will need to 
upgrade your server in order to host clients running the latest 
version), your server will not automatically restart.Team 
Fortress 2:* Synced with release version of gameSource 
engine:* VPK tool: Fixed bug with drag-and-drop creating bogus VPK 
files that could not be located by the engine.* Default mapcycle 
file moved to cstrike/cfg/mapcyclefile_default.txt.  It will be loaded 
if no mapcycle.txt file can be found and convar is set to default name.*
 Mapcycle file will be loaded from cstrike/cfg directory if it exists, 
falling back to root cstrike directory otherwise.* Mapcycle file can
 be loaded from cstrike/custom/xxx/cfg directory* Mapcycle file 
parsing allows C-style comments and blank lines___To
 unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
-- thesupremecommander (Steam)
Chief Admin, SPUFserver
Chief Admin, OverPowered League

___To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Bjorn Wielens]

That does it. I'm done with this mailing list. Either that or valve needs to 
rename it to "Watching grown men bicker like five-year-olds" list. And that's 
insulting to 5-year-olds.





 From: Crapware Wardon 
To: "hlds@list.valvesoftware.com"  
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 10:03:52 AM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD
 

 
In response to...
Mart-Jan Reeuwijk (mreeu...@yahoo.com)
 
You twisted little fucker, you sent me this...
 
http://imgur.com/JY1ndz9
 
the answer to your query is a resounding "NO"!

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD

[Bjorn Wielens]

Agreed, I really don't want to see the MOTD disappear.
My serves don't have pinion, but we do have a few plugins that use/open the 
MOTD panel with server rules, how to play (for mods) and other info. We also 
have a "clean" html MOTD, that is, no ads or other crapware but just info on 
our community, our other servers, and a brief rules summary.

It would suck if the MOTD was canned without any sort of replacement; once 
again the folks that are legit get shafted because of certain unscrupulous 
people.





 From: "e...@chello.at" 
To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' 
 
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 5:03:36 AM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD
 

If this is happening my free TF2 lottery gets a lot less sexier. There is a 
rare chance on my server that someone wins TF2 items. It then shows up the item 
over a specific motd page after respawn.  Most of these items are intentional 
bought over the Mann Co. store to support the small TF2 team. This would be 
really a let-down for me to remove this feature, since I put much effort into 
it. I have also a few of these plugins on Doctor McKay list which would be a 
shame to see them break beyond repair.
 
Is there no other way to incorporate Pinion and other Ad’s into TF2 in which 
Valve has more control over it? I don’t use it, but I can understand why others 
need it.
 
ED-E
 
Von:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] Im Auftrag von Doctor McKay
Gesendet: Freitag, 29. März 2013 21:31
An: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Betreff: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD
 
Rumor that Valve is considering removing the MOTD entirely.
 
Because of this, I decided to compile a list of plugins that would entirely or 
partially break if this change was made.


 
 
Doctor McKay
http://www.doctormckay.com
mc...@doctormckay.com
 
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 2:27 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
Where did you hear this "rumor" from?
 
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Paul  wrote:
Disabling window.open(...)'s JavaScript function wouldn't effect pop-up 
screens, however if the rumor that I've heard is true then that would indeed be 
bad for such plugins, and could see the community shrink on TF2 as a result.
 
On 29 March 2013 16:42, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk  wrote:

Hmm, pop-up screens for plugins like !bp and many others are done by users, but 
its the server's plugin that pops the requested webpage to the client. I'd hate 
to see such go, unless some can be worked out with the steam overlay browser, 
but that would cause a lot of abuse is my guess. (servers loading up a huge 
site in there without the player aware etc).

If it would be in the form of temporary "links" (bookmark) in the bar on top of 
the overlay browser, that those only get opened when the client clicks on them, 
that would end any form of abuse.
 
>
>
>
>From:Paul 
>To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
> 
>Sent: Friday, 29 March 2013, 10:15
>
>Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion and query regarding MOTD
> 
>Hi guys,
>Yes I understand what you're saying. That isn't what I mean though. I've heard 
>rumors (yes, on a forum, not exactly a reliable source I know) that there are 
>plans in the works to make a massive change to the MOTD so that it can't be 
>used by server plugins mid-game, and that it will only be usable at the 
>beginning (when you connect), presumably due to rare problems such as what I 
>mentioned occurring on certain servers. I'm guessing the rumors aren't true, 
>but even so I was suggesting that it if the rumors are true that instead of 
>doing that you could fix the problem by disabling the functionality of 
>JavaScript's window.open(...), alert(...) and confirm(...) functions. 
>Disabling those three functions would prevent any webpages that are loaded in 
>the MOTD from either making an additional popup window, or temporarily losing 
>mouse focus in the game to an alert/confirm box. Hopefully I've made myself a 
>little clearer now, I didn't mean Java, I do mean
 JavaScript.
> 
>Many thanks,
>Paul.
> 
>___
>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>visit:
>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
 

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
 

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
 

Re: [hlds] What is up with all the spam?

[Bjorn Wielens]

Understood, no worries :)




 From: Charlie Skog 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list  
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 7:05:02 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] What is up with all the spam?
 

That was not intended for you Bjorn.



On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Alastor Raynes  wrote:

I also should note that the unsubscribe function for the mailing list has been 
broken for months, and it's currently impossible to unsub from this list.
>
>
>
>On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Charlie Skog  wrote:
>
>You're the cancer of this mailing list.
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 12:00 AM, Bjorn Wielens  wrote:
>>
>>*Ahem*. Pot, meet kettle.
>>>
>>>
>>>And I quote: "
>>>
>>>If any of these apply to you and your looking for good work or just love 
to test stuff on high populated servers WONKA WANTS YOU! apply at 
wonkagaming.net or wonkagaming.com"
>>>
>>>That is unsolicited advertising, aka spam. Discussion about srcds servers is 
>>>NOT.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: HLDS Digest 
>>>To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com 
>>>Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 6:57:46 PM
>>>Subject: [hlds] What is up with all the spam?
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>Past 48 hours my email has been bombarded with off Half life 2 server side 
>>>information with this list... Please guys stop with the spamming Fletcher 
>>>and Eric have emails if you are having that many problems with your servers 
>>>they also even created a help webpage you can reference to..
>>>
>>>
>>>ALSO on another note WonkaGaming is recruiting and PAYING server-side coders 
>>>for Windows SRCDS servers. We are beta testing a new program for windows 
>>>server users to run servers in Ashersoftware version of SRCDS admin is out 
>>>of date and needs to be remade but better. We are also looking for people 
>>>with 2+ years exp in Source-mod scripting/coding for private mods for TF2 
>>>server side
>>>
>>>
>>>If any of these apply to you and your looking for good work or just love to 
>>>test stuff on high populated servers WONKA WANTS YOU! apply at 
>>>wonkagaming.net or wonkagaming.com
>>>
>>>
>>>-Willywonka
>>>
>>>
>>>PS
>>>please please please stop with the spam guys
>>>
>>>___
>>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>>>please visit:
>>>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>___
>>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>>>please visit:
>>>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>MvH Charlie Skog
>>
>>Taxi Kurir i Stockholm AB  
>>Postadress: Box 42201, 126 17 Stockholm
>>Telephone: +4687449409
>>Cellphone: +46708312558   
>>Company E-mail:  charlie.s...@sto.taxikurir.se  
>>Personal E-mail: charlie.s...@gmail.com 
>>___
>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>>visit:
>>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>>
>
>___
>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>visit:
>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>


-- 
MvH Charlie Skog

Taxi Kurir i Stockholm AB  
Postadress: Box 42201, 126 17 Stockholm
Telephone: +4687449409
Cellphone: +46708312558   
Company E-mail:  charlie.s...@sto.taxikurir.se  
Personal E-mail: charlie.s...@gmail.com 
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] What is up with all the spam?

[Bjorn Wielens]

*Ahem*. Pot, meet kettle.

And I quote: "

If any of these apply to you and your looking for good work or just love 
to test stuff on high populated servers WONKA WANTS YOU! apply at 
wonkagaming.net or wonkagaming.com"

That is unsolicited advertising, aka spam. Discussion about srcds servers is 
NOT.






 From: HLDS Digest 
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com 
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 6:57:46 PM
Subject: [hlds] What is up with all the spam?
 

Past 48 hours my email has been bombarded with off Half life 2 server side 
information with this list... Please guys stop with the spamming Fletcher and 
Eric have emails if you are having that many problems with your servers they 
also even created a help webpage you can reference to..

ALSO on another note WonkaGaming is recruiting and PAYING server-side coders 
for Windows SRCDS servers. We are beta testing a new program for windows server 
users to run servers in Ashersoftware version of SRCDS admin is out of date and 
needs to be remade but better. We are also looking for people with 2+ years exp 
in Source-mod scripting/coding for private mods for TF2 server side

If any of these apply to you and your looking for good work or just love to 
test stuff on high populated servers WONKA WANTS YOU! apply at wonkagaming.net 
or wonkagaming.com

-Willywonka

PS
please please please stop with the spam guys
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] Potential fix for problems on multi-honed servers

[Bjorn Wielens]

For what it's worth, I'm still running them and I don't think there are any 
issues.
Also given that the patch diff for yesterday's update doesn't indicate any 
changes to the 4 affected libraries, logic dictates you should still be able to 
run them without issue.

(Patch diff: 
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Template:PatchDiff/December_20,_2012_Patch)







 From: Jason 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list  
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 6:47:55 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Potential fix for problems on multi-honed servers
 

Yes, would love to know if these are still needed or if whatever "fixes" were 
in them, have been included in the latest update -- or even if we should *NOT* 
use them.

Thanks in advance!


On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Mike Vail  wrote:

Hi Fletcher,
> 
>Just checking to see if I should stil be using these…
> 
>Thanks!
>Mike
> 
>From:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
>[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn
>Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 11:13 AM
>To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list 
>(hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com); Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing 
>list (hlds@list.valvesoftware.com)
>Subject: [hlds] Potential fix for problems on multi-honed servers
> 
>If you are running a multi-honed server, and your server occasionally drops 
>out of the master server listing, or appears on the wrong public IP, then you 
>may be interested in testing our some beta binaries that might fix the 
>problem.  The problem begins with a disruption while talking on UDP (often 
>during the weekly prop of Steam).  The Steam client layer then enters a 
>fallback pattern of TCP, then UDP, etc.  Eventually the disruption is 
>resolved, and it can be random whether your server managed to connect to Steam 
>on TCP or UDP, depending on where it was in the retry pattern.  The problem 
>with TCP for multi-honed servers is that it will always bind to the default 
>interface, disregarding any request to bind to a particular interface.  This 
>can cause Steam to see your server as coming from the wrong public IP.  
>Depending on your routing rules, NAT, etc, your server can drop off of the 
>server browser because clients cannot get to you when they send
 packets to that IP.
> 
>Some server operators have worked around this bug with firewall rules 
>preventing the server from connecting to Steam via TCP.
> 
>These binaries disable TCP fallback for dedicated servers.
> 
>http://media.steampowered.com/apps/440/steam_bins_windows_1586041.zip
>http://media.steampowered.com/apps/440/steam_bins_linux_1586041.zip
> 
>Be warned that they have not been widely tested.  You should only try out 
>these binaries if you think you are having problems related to multi-honed 
>machines.
> 
>Also, note that if you do use these binaries, and then update your server, 
>they will probably be reverted.
> 
>___
>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>visit:
>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] TF2 stock weapons only

[Bjorn Wielens]

How does that one address the blocking? Does it change blocked weapons to stock 
weapons, or does it have some other mechanism (preventing the wrench issue 
described below)?





 From: AnAkIn 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list  
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 12:07:42 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 stock weapons only
 

TFTrue - http://tftrue.redline-utilities.net/




2012/12/10 Nomaan Ahmad 

Thanks guys!
>
>
>
>On 10 December 2012 14:58, Bjorn Wielens  wrote:
>
>There is a sourcemod plugin called tNoUnlockPls that does exactly this.
>>
>>It's a bit buggy when it comes to the red tape recorder, and wrenches though 
>>- for example, if you have a non-stock wrench equipped, any time you touch a 
>>supply cabinet your buildings will explode from the 'fix' for the Level3 
>>minisentry bug.
>>
>>That said, I've played it on vaultf4's no-unlock server and it is a lot of 
>>fun to go all stock. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Rudy Bleeker 
>>
>>To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
>> 
>>Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 10:51:08 AM
>>
>>Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 stock weapons only
>> 
>>
>>On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Rudy Bleeker  wrote:
>>> Nomaan, there should be an item_whitelist_example.txt file in your
>>> /orangebox/tf folder, look there for more information.
>>>
>>> Also there's nothing wrong with setting a server in tournament mode
>>> with mp_tournament, MvM does this for you automatically anywqay. As
>>> long as you leave the tf_tournament_classlimit_ cvars set
>>> to their default value of -1 so you don't accidentally enforce class
>>> limits.
>>
>>Oops, after
 looking up some more information on this I found out that
>>setting tournament mode to 1 will force everyone to press F4 to "be
>>ready", which is probably not something you want to enable on a public
>>TF2 server. Maybe someone knows a way around this?
>>
>>--
>>Idleness is not doing nothing. Idleness is being free to do anything.
>>  - Floyd Dell
>>
>>___
>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>>visit:
>>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>>
>>
>>___
>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>>visit:
>>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>>
>
>___
>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>visit:
>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>


-- 
Best regards,
AnAkIn


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] TF2 stock weapons only

[Bjorn Wielens]

There is a sourcemod plugin called tNoUnlockPls that does exactly this.

It's a bit buggy when it comes to the red tape recorder, and wrenches though - 
for example, if you have a non-stock wrench equipped, any time you touch a 
supply cabinet your buildings will explode from the 'fix' for the Level3 
minisentry bug.

That said, I've played it on vaultf4's no-unlock server and it is a lot of fun 
to go all stock. 





 From: Rudy Bleeker 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list  
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 10:51:08 AM
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 stock weapons only
 
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Rudy Bleeker  wrote:
> Nomaan, there should be an item_whitelist_example.txt file in your
> /orangebox/tf folder, look there for more information.
>
> Also there's nothing wrong with setting a server in tournament mode
> with mp_tournament, MvM does this for you automatically anywqay. As
> long as you leave the tf_tournament_classlimit_ cvars set
> to their default value of -1 so you don't accidentally enforce class
> limits.

Oops, after looking up some more information on this I found out that
setting tournament mode to 1 will force everyone to press F4 to "be
ready", which is probably not something you want to enable on a public
TF2 server. Maybe someone knows a way around this?

--
Idleness is not doing nothing. Idleness is being free to do anything.
  - Floyd Dell

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] TF2 stock weapons only

[Bjorn Wielens]

Doesn't this only work if you're running in tournament mode though?





 From: Carlos Bello 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list  
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 8:55:21 AM
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 stock weapons only
 

Make an item_whitelist.txt file (or similar, name doesn't matter) in your cfg 
folder and put this one line into it:

"unlisted_items_default_to" "0"

Now in your server config:

mp_tournament_whitelist "cfg/item_whitelist.txt"

Let me know if this works.

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El dic 10, 2012, a las 7:39 a.m., Damon Reece  escribió:


Server weapon whitelist. 
>
>On Monday, December 10, 2012, Nomaan Ahmad  wrote:
>
>Is there a cvar that disable all weapons except the stock weapons on TF2? Or 
>any way to achieve this?
>>
>
>-- 
>Sent from Gmail Mobile
>
___
>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>visit:
>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] Optional TF2, DoD:S, and HL2:DM updates released

[Bjorn Wielens]

I'd suspect optional, given that it is entirely a client-side issue.





 From: Jason 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list  
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2012 8:42:29 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] Optional TF2, DoD:S, and HL2:DM updates 
released
 

So is this update coming up going to end up being mandatory or still considered 
optional (for dedicated servers)?



On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 7:18 PM, wickedplayer494 .  
wrote:

Awesome, right as I sent my message. Thanks for the info.
>
>
>
>On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 6:16 PM, Eric Smith  wrote:
>
>We have a fix that we'll be releasing soon.
>>
>>-Eric
>>
>>
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
>>[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Ross Bemrose
>>Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 4:14 PM
>>To: Bjorn Wielens; Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list; Half-Life 
>>Windows dedicated server mailing
>>Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Optional TF2, DoD:S, and HL2:DM updates released
>>
>>Reports on Reddit are noting that a lot of timer-like things are playing 
>>animations backwards, such as the cloak meter on the face of the various Spy 
>>watches.
>>
>>On 12/4/2012 7:12 PM, Bjorn Wielens wrote:
>>> I've received a report (and verified) that the control point capture timers 
>>> are reversed as of this update. If you are capping as BLU, the circle 
>>> indicating progress is shown as blue being covered by red instead of vice 
>>> versa (as in it appears RED is capping a BLU point.
>>> I've also been told that cloak meters for spy watches are reversed, but 
>>> have been unable to verify/duplicate that.
>>>
>>> Has anyone else seen similar issues?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>   From: Eric Smith 
>>> To: "'hlds@list.valvesoftware.com'" ;
>>> "'hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com'"
>>> ;
>>> "'hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com'"
>>> 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2012 4:25:24 PM
>>> Subject: [hlds_linux] Optional TF2, DoD:S, and HL2:DM updates released
>>>
>>> We've released optional (for dedicated servers) updates for Team Fortress 
>>> 2, Day of Defeat: Source, and Half-Life 2: Deathmatch. The notes for the 
>>> updates are below. These updates do not affect dedicated servers.
>>>
>>> -Eric
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Source Engine Changes (TF2, DoD:S, HL2:DM)
>>> - Updated to support Big Picture mode
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>>> please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>>> please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>
>>
>>___
>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>>visit:
>>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>
>>___
>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>>visit:
>>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>
>___
>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>visit:
>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] Mandatory TF2, DoD:S, and HL2:DM updates released

[Bjorn Wielens]

I can second this on a Linux server, seems to be related to the MVM halloween 
component.




 From: T Marler 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list  
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 9:15:43 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Mandatory TF2, DoD:S, and HL2:DM updates released
 
I updated my servers (with verify all) twice, as soon ass the queueing system 
kicks in, my server blurts out:

Invalid wave number
Invalid Where argument 'spawnbot_scattered'
Unknown attribute 'Where' in WaveSpawn definition.
Invalid Where argument 'spawnbot_scattered'
Unknown attribute 'Where' in WaveSpawn definition.


And now my servers are not responsive.

Wtf?

- Original Message -
From: "Eric Smith" 
To: "Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list" 
, "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing 
list" , "hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com" 

Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 5:16:39 PM
Subject: [hlds] Mandatory TF2, DoD:S, and HL2:DM updates released

We've released mandatory updates for TF2, DoD:S, and HL2:DM. The notes for the 
updates are below.

-Eric

--

Source Engine Changes (TF2, DoD:S, HL2:DM)
- Added mat_viewportupscale and mat_viewportscale to enable rendering the world 
at a reduced resolution. ("mat_viewportupscale 1" and "mat_viewportscale 0.5" 
will downscale world rendering by 50%.)
- Added a new convar mp_mapcycle_empty_timeout_seconds to trigger a changelevel 
when the server is empty
- Fixed a bug that prevented consecutive clicks on scrollbar buttons
- Performance and stability improvements
- Added positional audio support for Mumble clients 

Team Fortress 2
- Scream Fortress Event 2012
- Fixed a bug where buildings would be invisible during their setup time
- Mann vs. Machine
   - Added the map Mvm_coaltown_event with a special Halloween mission
   - Fixed a bug where players money would not be set properly when restoring a 
checkpoint
   - Fixed server crash on vote to restart mission


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] Quickplay not activating?

[Bjorn Wielens]

I did read that thread, thanks.

Moreso because it was from full one day to DEAD the next, not a gradual decline 
like we've seen in other servers.




 From: Dominik Friedrichs 
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list  
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 9:03:43 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Quickplay not activating?
 
We've been through this a few weeks ago - check for other Quickplay 
threads. Basically there are just fewer people playing these days. As I 
noted, probably Valves Halloween event will bring back a good number of 
them. My less popular server is also not filling anymore.

On 2012/10/14 01:54, Bjorn Wielens wrote:
> Has anyone noticed issues with Quickplay since about 2 weeks ago?
>
> We have several servers, some of which have no issues filling, but
> others get no quickplay traffic at all as of late, despite having both a
> gameserver identity (in good standing) and tf_mm_servermode set to 1.
>
> Some of those affected were regularly full of QP traffic, and seem to
> have just died overnight. Even if we get 6 people in the server, not one
> single person comes in via Quickplay, whereas before, you would at least
> see the odd person come in until the server was full.
>
> There are also no configuration differences (Except the running maps)
> between servers that do fill and those that don't.
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

[hlds] Quickplay not activating?

[Bjorn Wielens]

Has anyone noticed issues with Quickplay since about 2 weeks ago?

We have several servers, some of which have no issues filling, but 
others get no quickplay traffic at all as of late, despite having both a 
gameserver identity (in good standing) and tf_mm_servermode set to 1.


Some of those affected were regularly full of QP traffic, and seem to 
have just died overnight. Even if we get 6 people in the server, not one 
single person comes in via Quickplay, whereas before, you would at least 
see the odd person come in until the server was full.


There are also no configuration differences (Except the running maps) 
between servers that do fill and those that don't.


Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds