Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
I think that PunkBuster is currently using this kind of hardware bans, but as always, is more or less easily spoofable. -- PiTaGoRaS Whisper escribió (Fri, 1 Apr 2005 04:00:03 +1000): You misunderstood what I was saying. I was saying that the STEAM Client querys the Hardware address of the NIC directly and uses that as a Unique Hardware ID. Again not sure how viable an option this is. On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 09:25:43 -0800, m0gely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whisper wrote: That being said, it still won't help you with Modem users who don't have a MAC address, well not one in the same way a NIC does. Dudes, your MAC (hardware) address never makes it to the servers you play on unless they are on the local LAN. They aren't routed. You can swap out, spoof, change, kick and spit on all your network gear all you want. You can't control this sort of thing via MAC address over the net. Sniff packets or something and you'll find out that all the players on your server have the same MAC. It's the MAC of the router your server is behind. You want to ban that? -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 11:33:24AM -0500, StealthMode wrote:
Regarding the unique identifier method. An alternate would be (for intel
hacks users anyway) to use the serial # on the cpu itself to initiate the
ban. I don't know about you fellas, but I don't think most hax0rz would want
to replace their cpus each and every time they get detected. To my knowledge
this unique id is not alterable. But I don't think (sorry but I don't use
You may not be able to alter it in the hardware, but you sure can alter
the software that queries the ID and would transmit it to a server. Same
thing goes for other unique hardware IDs. Focussing on actual cheat
detection and banning SteamIDs would be a more useful effort in my
opinion. (And fixing the hole that no-steam uses.)
amd, don't endorse amd, nor would I ever be caught dead using an amd.
{because they got their start from a stolen intel design}) AMD has the same
type of processor registration.
Maarten
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RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
It could not have been better said. Ray S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:30 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. Almost all people I know (IRL) who plays Halflife did already buy HalfLife2 with CS:S, tested it, then went back to CS1.6. To me its clear that CS:S is not mature enough yet. Most people I have spoken to don't like it, but they have the game. To me it seems Valve already got their money for the upgrade. And don't forget the hardware requirement for HalfLife2 compared to HalfLife1. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: 31. mars 2005 23:31 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Considering there is NO real effective anticheat measures through valve for either of these groups, by moving forward with Source games only, they would effectively win our (Source server ops) continued business AND we would strongly encourage HL1 users to upgrade. HL1 users would be in the same position they are now, and by learning HL2/Source servers/games are utilizing new state of the art anti-cheat measures - I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deadman Standing Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 1:02 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hmm, currently according to steam: Hl1 users online: 113,000+ Hl1 Servers online: 55,700+ Source users online: 49,000+ Source Servers online: 19,400+ It is always a good business model to piss off the majority of your customers (2.3 times more hl1 players). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:27 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hopefully VAC2 will work ONLY for Source games and ONLY on secure servers. I would love to have one single focused platform which Valve continually updates instead of them trying to half-ass support everything out there. Let's move forward with Source and make secure servers the place to play! ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Agreed... I purchased HL2 which came with CS:S which I thought was a pretty cool bonus. I played and beat HL2 where as I can't seem to stand playing CS:S.For some reason,like said,I guess its just not mature enough.Its a good game but I still enjoy playing CS1.6 alot more than I do CS:S right now.So maybe it will follow the same route as CS did as far as bug getting fixed and hopefully one day it will be as big as CS1.6.Anywho thats my input. BeNt - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It could not have been better said. Ray S. -Original Message- [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. Almost all people I know (IRL) who plays Halflife did already buy HalfLife2 with CS:S, tested it, then went back to CS1.6. To me its clear that CS:S is not mature enough yet. Most people I have spoken to don't like it, but they have the game. To me it seems Valve already got their money for the upgrade. And don't forget the hardware requirement for HalfLife2 compared to HalfLife1. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Happy April Fool's Day everyone. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Agent|BeNt Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 6:19 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Agreed... I purchased HL2 which came with CS:S which I thought was a pretty cool bonus. I played and beat HL2 where as I can't seem to stand playing CS:S.For some reason,like said,I guess its just not mature enough.Its a good game but I still enjoy playing CS1.6 alot more than I do CS:S right now.So maybe it will follow the same route as CS did as far as bug getting fixed and hopefully one day it will be as big as CS1.6.Anywho thats my input. BeNt - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It could not have been better said. Ray S. -Original Message- [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. Almost all people I know (IRL) who plays Halflife did already buy HalfLife2 with CS:S, tested it, then went back to CS1.6. To me its clear that CS:S is not mature enough yet. Most people I have spoken to don't like it, but they have the game. To me it seems Valve already got their money for the upgrade. And don't forget the hardware requirement for HalfLife2 compared to HalfLife1. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
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Thanks Marten for clarifying that.
But for the average joe hacker, would they think to change their processor
id (via spoofing I assume) before installing hacks and running a steam
platform hl2 engine/vac2 game? Even the authors would get caught off guard
at first. Not everyone would normally run that unless they specifically knew
thats how bans were. If it were kept quiet and not publicly acknowledged as
the ban method for steam, it would work me thinks. But anyway, out of our
hands, the g0dz of Valve Software will make them 1337 hax0rz be banned one
way or another (delete steam accounts on the auth server with a secondary
database flag set so that cd key/account could not be registered in the
future?¿?).
Hmmm, technically
valve could contact isps and have user accounts terminated
for ToS of the isp. After all illegally modifying Valves software kind of is
a criminal act (software reverse engineering in regards to copyright
infringements). So technically, they could contact the isp and get accounts
terminated with various providers (If they wanted to use the extra
resources). That would put an end to it I think though
.With not many
provider choices in a few areas (for broadband anyway), that would severely
limit a hackers means to connect to our servers
8)
My continuing .02 (Hopefully keeping it constructive {Feedback?} enough to
stay on topic).
-Stealth
#LoTgaming
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
StealthMode wrote: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Thanks Marten for clarifying that. But for the average joe hacker, would they think to change their processor id (via spoofing I assume) before installing hacks and running a steam platform hl2 engine/vac2 game? Even the authors would get caught off guard at first. Not everyone would normally run that unless they specifically knew thats how bans were. If it were kept quiet and not publicly acknowledged as the ban method for steam, it would work me thinks. But anyway, out of our hands, the g0dz of Valve Software will make them 1337 hax0rz be banned one way or another (delete steam accounts on the auth server with a secondary database flag set so that cd key/account could not be registered in the future??). snip snip Anybody got the ASUS A8N SLI Deluxe mobo with dual nVidea 6800's? I do and let me share with you the concept of advanced cheating and what little chance any anti-cheat system has. You can enable the load balancing graph for the video system. This draws a nice green horizontal line across the screen in the center. (happens to be the horizontal aim point center too) It has a graph bar on the left side that shows how much work is happening on each video card. If you take a screenshot in game the green line does not show up. Neither do the brightness/contrast/color enhancements set in the video cards that can turn night into day. The Screenshots grab the Directx video memory right? (I don't know for sure but suspect so). Punkbuster grabs the DirectX video memory as does Vexsecure (former BF Secure). Standard cheats released to skillz downloaders do their thing in DirectX memory by way of several means and usually by WriteProcessMemory() calls to make the game code produce the desired cheat effect itself. These cheats are easily detectable. Of course the process to toss off a new cheat (written in VB6) is just as easy so the cheat fingerprints change as often as the previous versions are detected. Now the truly elite hackers usually have extra hardware and know as much (and on occaision more) about the game workings as the engineers that wrote the code. These high-end software engineers also know everything there is to know about the packet streams involved. So here is what they can do if they want to. They siphon off a mirror image of the (so-called net code) bit stream to a second workstation and produce the cheat overlays there. Such a system cannot be detected short of standing behind the cheater and watching what they have at their disposal. Really advanced hackers may also be capable of applying the cheat overlays in the video cards as happens with the load balance graph. Is this a bad April Fool's joke? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Hi Ray, I disagree, this is the same type of behavior that follows anytime something new comes along ie.. WON/STEAM.., CS 1.x - CS 1.6! We go through this with any type of upgrade! Seems to me there are a lot of people who are afraid to try something new! Sort of like the bunch of old timers who still have rotary pulse phone systems. Regards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It could not have been better said. Ray S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:30 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. Almost all people I know (IRL) who plays Halflife did already buy HalfLife2 with CS:S, tested it, then went back to CS1.6. To me its clear that CS:S is not mature enough yet. Most people I have spoken to don't like it, but they have the game. To me it seems Valve already got their money for the upgrade. And don't forget the hardware requirement for HalfLife2 compared to HalfLife1. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: 31. mars 2005 23:31 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Considering there is NO real effective anticheat measures through valve for either of these groups, by moving forward with Source games only, they would effectively win our (Source server ops) continued business AND we would strongly encourage HL1 users to upgrade. HL1 users would be in the same position they are now, and by learning HL2/Source servers/games are utilizing new state of the art anti-cheat measures - I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deadman Standing Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 1:02 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hmm, currently according to steam: Hl1 users online: 113,000+ Hl1 Servers online: 55,700+ Source users online: 49,000+ Source Servers online: 19,400+ It is always a good business model to piss off the majority of your customers (2.3 times more hl1 players). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:27 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hopefully VAC2 will work ONLY for Source games and ONLY on secure servers. I would love to have one single focused platform which Valve continually updates instead of them trying to half-ass support everything out there. Let's move forward with Source and make secure servers the place to play! ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Actually sir, we feel this way because we cannot run the servers without restarting them every day or so, because of the bugs in the client, because of the 'rubberbanding' in CSS, the complete lack of support in all the leagues for CSS, because of the lack of HLTV for CSS, for the lack of MANY issues still needing to be addressed in CSS. So his comment of it not being mature enough to be moved to was exactly what I agreed with. Once issues like this are addressed then moving to the new platform would be the appropriate course of action. What is currently available for CSS is not at a level that anyone trusts or can rely on. When that changes then so will my opinions. When we were told in December, VAC2 coming 'soon', we assumed a month or so. Here we are in April with still nothing. Wednesday came and went with no VAC2 that they quoted and nobody said a word. This is the lack of follow-through that we've experience from Valve in roughly a year of no viable AC protection. They insist everything stay in-house and then don't get the job done. Come on... a YEAR it's been now since a VAC update. Are you so blinded by the lure of 'technology' that you don't see the facts? Ray S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roc Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 1:38 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hi Ray, I disagree, this is the same type of behavior that follows anytime something new comes along ie.. WON/STEAM.., CS 1.x - CS 1.6! We go through this with any type of upgrade! Seems to me there are a lot of people who are afraid to try something new! Sort of like the bunch of old timers who still have rotary pulse phone systems. Regards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It could not have been better said. Ray S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:30 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. Almost all people I know (IRL) who plays Halflife did already buy HalfLife2 with CS:S, tested it, then went back to CS1.6. To me its clear that CS:S is not mature enough yet. Most people I have spoken to don't like it, but they have the game. To me it seems Valve already got their money for the upgrade. And don't forget the hardware requirement for HalfLife2 compared to HalfLife1. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: 31. mars 2005 23:31 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Considering there is NO real effective anticheat measures through valve for either of these groups, by moving forward with Source games only, they would effectively win our (Source server ops) continued business AND we would strongly encourage HL1 users to upgrade. HL1 users would be in the same position they are now, and by learning HL2/Source servers/games are utilizing new state of the art anti-cheat measures - I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deadman Standing Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 1:02 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hmm, currently according to steam: Hl1 users online: 113,000+ Hl1 Servers online: 55,700+ Source users online: 49,000+ Source Servers online: 19,400+ It is always a good business model to piss off the majority of your customers (2.3 times more hl1 players). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:27 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hopefully VAC2 will work ONLY for Source games and ONLY on secure servers. I would love to have one single focused platform which Valve continually updates instead of them trying to half-ass support everything out there. Let's move forward with Source and make secure servers the place to play! ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
If you don't like the direction they are headed then why bother continuing to run their games... oh yeah because they're the best around and you ARE going to put up with it like you have all these years or you would've left here long ago! Ray, we've seen complaints of this nature upon ANY type of upgrade or release just as people do when MS releases something! The facts are it's valve who calls the shots, nothing any of us say will ever change that. Yes, I agree Source is not yet up to par but then again what has release been from valve! Quit the right wing type of BS! You are speaking like a true GSP, who in reality is worried about his cash flow, if you remember I could care less about! This topic is nearing it's end for me, Im not going to get into a battle of who wants what! Happy April Fools Day All Regards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually sir, we feel this way because we cannot run the servers without restarting them every day or so, because of the bugs in the client, because of the 'rubberbanding' in CSS, the complete lack of support in all the leagues for CSS, because of the lack of HLTV for CSS, for the lack of MANY issues still needing to be addressed in CSS. So his comment of it not being mature enough to be moved to was exactly what I agreed with. Once issues like this are addressed then moving to the new platform would be the appropriate course of action. What is currently available for CSS is not at a level that anyone trusts or can rely on. When that changes then so will my opinions. When we were told in December, VAC2 coming 'soon', we assumed a month or so. Here we are in April with still nothing. Wednesday came and went with no VAC2 that they quoted and nobody said a word. This is the lack of follow-through that we've experience from Valve in roughly a year of no viable AC protection. They insist everything stay in-house and then don't get the job done. Come on... a YEAR it's been now since a VAC update. Are you so blinded by the lure of 'technology' that you don't see the facts? Ray S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roc Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 1:38 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hi Ray, I disagree, this is the same type of behavior that follows anytime something new comes along ie.. WON/STEAM.., CS 1.x - CS 1.6! We go through this with any type of upgrade! Seems to me there are a lot of people who are afraid to try something new! Sort of like the bunch of old timers who still have rotary pulse phone systems. Regards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It could not have been better said. Ray S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:30 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. Almost all people I know (IRL) who plays Halflife did already buy HalfLife2 with CS:S, tested it, then went back to CS1.6. To me its clear that CS:S is not mature enough yet. Most people I have spoken to don't like it, but they have the game. To me it seems Valve already got their money for the upgrade. And don't forget the hardware requirement for HalfLife2 compared to HalfLife1. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: 31. mars 2005 23:31 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Considering there is NO real effective anticheat measures through valve for either of these groups, by moving forward with Source games only, they would effectively win our (Source server ops) continued business AND we would strongly encourage HL1 users to upgrade. HL1 users would be in the same position they are now, and by learning HL2/Source servers/games are utilizing new state of the art anti-cheat measures - I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deadman Standing Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 1:02 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hmm, currently according to steam: Hl1 users online: 113,000+ Hl1 Servers online: 55,700+ Source users online: 49,000+ Source Servers online: 19,400+ It is always a good business model to piss off the majority of your customers (2.3 times more hl1 players). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:27 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hopefully VAC2 will work ONLY for Source games and ONLY on secure servers. I would love to have one single focused platform which Valve continually updates instead of them trying to half-ass support everything out there. Let's move forward with Source and make secure servers the place to play
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Quit the right wing type of BS! wtf are you talking about. Ray, we've seen complaints of this nature upon ANY type of upgrade or release just as people do when MS releases something! Dont compare Valve to MS, valve does not put out the quaility in thier products, nor listen to thier customers the way ms does. I have to agree with Ray though, CSS is not ready for primetime; nor really is any source multiplayer game right now. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Roc Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:44 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. If you don't like the direction they are headed then why bother continuing to run their games... oh yeah because they're the best around and you ARE going to put up with it like you have all these years or you would've left here long ago! Ray, we've seen complaints of this nature upon ANY type of upgrade or release just as people do when MS releases something! The facts are it's valve who calls the shots, nothing any of us say will ever change that. Yes, I agree Source is not yet up to par but then again what has release been from valve! Quit the right wing type of BS! You are speaking like a true GSP, who in reality is worried about his cash flow, if you remember I could care less about! This topic is nearing it's end for me, Im not going to get into a battle of who wants what! Happy April Fools Day All Regards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually sir, we feel this way because we cannot run the servers without restarting them every day or so, because of the bugs in the client, because of the 'rubberbanding' in CSS, the complete lack of support in all the leagues for CSS, because of the lack of HLTV for CSS, for the lack of MANY issues still needing to be addressed in CSS. So his comment of it not being mature enough to be moved to was exactly what I agreed with. Once issues like this are addressed then moving to the new platform would be the appropriate course of action. What is currently available for CSS is not at a level that anyone trusts or can rely on. When that changes then so will my opinions. When we were told in December, VAC2 coming 'soon', we assumed a month or so. Here we are in April with still nothing. Wednesday came and went with no VAC2 that they quoted and nobody said a word. This is the lack of follow-through that we've experience from Valve in roughly a year of no viable AC protection. They insist everything stay in-house and then don't get the job done. Come on... a YEAR it's been now since a VAC update. Are you so blinded by the lure of 'technology' that you don't see the facts? Ray S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roc Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 1:38 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hi Ray, I disagree, this is the same type of behavior that follows anytime something new comes along ie.. WON/STEAM.., CS 1.x - CS 1.6! We go through this with any type of upgrade! Seems to me there are a lot of people who are afraid to try something new! Sort of like the bunch of old timers who still have rotary pulse phone systems. Regards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It could not have been better said. Ray S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:30 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. Almost all people I know (IRL) who plays Halflife did already buy HalfLife2 with CS:S, tested it, then went back to CS1.6. To me its clear that CS:S is not mature enough yet. Most people I have spoken to don't like it, but they have the game. To me it seems Valve already got their money for the upgrade. And don't forget the hardware requirement for HalfLife2 compared to HalfLife1. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: 31. mars 2005 23:31 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Considering there is NO real effective anticheat measures through valve for either of these groups, by moving forward with Source games only, they would effectively win our (Source server ops) continued business AND we would strongly encourage HL1 users to upgrade. HL1 users would be in the same position they are now, and by learning HL2/Source servers/games are utilizing new state of the art anti-cheat measures - I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deadman Standing Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 1:02 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hmm, currently according to steam: Hl1 users online: 113,000+ Hl1 Servers online: 55,700
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
It's not about me, GSP income or anything personal at all. It's about the numbers. Look at how many people play CS1 and compare that to CSS. When and/or if CSS comes up to par with CS1.6 in stability and performance then our opinions will change. Until then we are simply voicing our views. You don't have to agree with them. But you do have to hear them as opinions and not attack us for them. When CSS becomes stable, reliable and secure we'll support the game as well, I'm sure, as the leagues around the world. Until then it remains simply a novelty and little else. By all means continue development on it. But forcing hundreds of thousands of users to move to it is asinine until the above issues are addressed. You call it right-wing I call it reality. Ray S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roc Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:44 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. If you don't like the direction they are headed then why bother continuing to run their games... oh yeah because they're the best around and you ARE going to put up with it like you have all these years or you would've left here long ago! Ray, we've seen complaints of this nature upon ANY type of upgrade or release just as people do when MS releases something! The facts are it's valve who calls the shots, nothing any of us say will ever change that. Yes, I agree Source is not yet up to par but then again what has release been from valve! Quit the right wing type of BS! You are speaking like a true GSP, who in reality is worried about his cash flow, if you remember I could care less about! This topic is nearing it's end for me, Im not going to get into a battle of who wants what! Happy April Fools Day All Regards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually sir, we feel this way because we cannot run the servers without restarting them every day or so, because of the bugs in the client, because of the 'rubberbanding' in CSS, the complete lack of support in all the leagues for CSS, because of the lack of HLTV for CSS, for the lack of MANY issues still needing to be addressed in CSS. So his comment of it not being mature enough to be moved to was exactly what I agreed with. Once issues like this are addressed then moving to the new platform would be the appropriate course of action. What is currently available for CSS is not at a level that anyone trusts or can rely on. When that changes then so will my opinions. When we were told in December, VAC2 coming 'soon', we assumed a month or so. Here we are in April with still nothing. Wednesday came and went with no VAC2 that they quoted and nobody said a word. This is the lack of follow-through that we've experience from Valve in roughly a year of no viable AC protection. They insist everything stay in-house and then don't get the job done. Come on... a YEAR it's been now since a VAC update. Are you so blinded by the lure of 'technology' that you don't see the facts? Ray S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roc Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 1:38 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hi Ray, I disagree, this is the same type of behavior that follows anytime something new comes along ie.. WON/STEAM.., CS 1.x - CS 1.6! We go through this with any type of upgrade! Seems to me there are a lot of people who are afraid to try something new! Sort of like the bunch of old timers who still have rotary pulse phone systems. Regards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It could not have been better said. Ray S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:30 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. Almost all people I know (IRL) who plays Halflife did already buy HalfLife2 with CS:S, tested it, then went back to CS1.6. To me its clear that CS:S is not mature enough yet. Most people I have spoken to don't like it, but they have the game. To me it seems Valve already got their money for the upgrade. And don't forget the hardware requirement for HalfLife2 compared to HalfLife1. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: 31. mars 2005 23:31 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Considering there is NO real effective anticheat measures through valve for either of these groups, by moving forward with Source games only, they would effectively win our (Source server ops) continued business AND we would strongly encourage HL1 users to upgrade. HL1 users would be in the same position they are now, and by learning HL2/Source servers/games are utilizing new state of the art anti-cheat measures - I would bet a majority of them would
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Hi Ray, point taken. :) apologies if you felt it was an attack, i'll try to debate my views differently in the future. Regards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not about me, GSP income or anything personal at all. It's about the numbers. Look at how many people play CS1 and compare that to CSS. When and/or if CSS comes up to par with CS1.6 in stability and performance then our opinions will change. Until then we are simply voicing our views. You don't have to agree with them. But you do have to hear them as opinions and not attack us for them. When CSS becomes stable, reliable and secure we'll support the game as well, I'm sure, as the leagues around the world. Until then it remains simply a novelty and little else. By all means continue development on it. But forcing hundreds of thousands of users to move to it is asinine until the above issues are addressed. You call it right-wing I call it reality. Ray S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roc Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:44 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. If you don't like the direction they are headed then why bother continuing to run their games... oh yeah because they're the best around and you ARE going to put up with it like you have all these years or you would've left here long ago! Ray, we've seen complaints of this nature upon ANY type of upgrade or release just as people do when MS releases something! The facts are it's valve who calls the shots, nothing any of us say will ever change that. Yes, I agree Source is not yet up to par but then again what has release been from valve! Quit the right wing type of BS! You are speaking like a true GSP, who in reality is worried about his cash flow, if you remember I could care less about! This topic is nearing it's end for me, Im not going to get into a battle of who wants what! Happy April Fools Day All Regards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually sir, we feel this way because we cannot run the servers without restarting them every day or so, because of the bugs in the client, because of the 'rubberbanding' in CSS, the complete lack of support in all the leagues for CSS, because of the lack of HLTV for CSS, for the lack of MANY issues still needing to be addressed in CSS. So his comment of it not being mature enough to be moved to was exactly what I agreed with. Once issues like this are addressed then moving to the new platform would be the appropriate course of action. What is currently available for CSS is not at a level that anyone trusts or can rely on. When that changes then so will my opinions. When we were told in December, VAC2 coming 'soon', we assumed a month or so. Here we are in April with still nothing. Wednesday came and went with no VAC2 that they quoted and nobody said a word. This is the lack of follow-through that we've experience from Valve in roughly a year of no viable AC protection. They insist everything stay in-house and then don't get the job done. Come on... a YEAR it's been now since a VAC update. Are you so blinded by the lure of 'technology' that you don't see the facts? Ray S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roc Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 1:38 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hi Ray, I disagree, this is the same type of behavior that follows anytime something new comes along ie.. WON/STEAM.., CS 1.x - CS 1.6! We go through this with any type of upgrade! Seems to me there are a lot of people who are afraid to try something new! Sort of like the bunch of old timers who still have rotary pulse phone systems. Regards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It could not have been better said. Ray S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:30 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. Almost all people I know (IRL) who plays Halflife did already buy HalfLife2 with CS:S, tested it, then went back to CS1.6. To me its clear that CS:S is not mature enough yet. Most people I have spoken to don't like it, but they have the game. To me it seems Valve already got their money for the upgrade. And don't forget the hardware requirement for HalfLife2 compared to HalfLife1. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: 31. mars 2005 23:31 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Considering there is NO real effective anticheat measures through valve for either of these groups, by moving forward with Source games only, they would effectively win our (Source server ops) continued business AND we would strongly encourage HL1 users to upgrade. HL1 users would be in the same position they are now
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Why do you think it is fair to warn of a possible anti-cheat that will work? We are talking about a serious company here. And I only said it's fair to announce the start of a new system. They want as much players as possible, this is the way to go. So that the possible cheating Admin can say gee, valve I'm not a cheater, I was just testing the hack to see how it works! Hum? I suggested a delay in the execution of the bans, not a second chance for the cheater. Everyone will be banned for cheating, but a delay will catch more ignorant cheaters and create a fear of the unknown. Like this: A cheat developer swims out on open sea... no sharks... tells his children that its safe... They all jump in and start swimming.. only to find out the shark has been observing.. and will now eat them all.. Instead of just eating the cheat tester because people noticed he got eaten. Warning gives them the opportunity to protect themselves and why would you want to protect a cheater? I don't want to warn a cheater, but again; Valve is a serious company. You can't do whatever you feel like when trying to be serious. VAC will always be updated whenever a new cheat is released so long the project doesn't fall apart. Does this mean that we know VAC will be updated on the fly? If so, great. No need for a delay. But he will know it when all the little cheaters run to his forums and/or email him! Then he removes cheat and valve cant ban him because they waited and gave him a chance. Again: noone is asking cheaters to be given a chance to get away. (Except that Fred - Prism128 ;)) -Alex ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Alexander Kobbevik wrote: Why do you think it is fair to warn of a possible anti-cheat that will work? We are talking about a serious company here. And I only said it's fair to announce the start of a new system. They want as much players as possible, this is the way to go. If I am correct the have the largest MP following! And as for fair, they were fair to give the warning as we all saw last week when we launced STEAM. ;) So that the possible cheating Admin can say gee, valve I'm not a cheater, I was just testing the hack to see how it works! Hum? I suggested a delay in the execution of the bans, not a second chance for the cheater. Everyone will be banned for cheating, but a delay will catch more ignorant cheaters and create a fear of the unknown. Like this: A cheat developer swims out on open sea... no sharks... tells his children that its safe... They all jump in and start swimming.. only to find out the shark has been observing.. and will now eat them all.. Instead of just eating the cheat tester because people noticed he got eaten. Don't you think for a minute that is exactly what has been done all these months whilst we sat here bitching about when is a vac update coming out I for one hope they already have a database on potentials! Warning gives them the opportunity to protect themselves and why would you want to protect a cheater? I don't want to warn a cheater, but again; Valve is a serious company. You can't do whatever you feel like when trying to be serious. See, this is why I believe your method is not the best! A warning does nothing but let the cheaters know their hack is broken. The game is not that expensive so they'll have a few spare keys to use testing the new hack. Then the new hack is released and what happens now is that all the cheaters who were warned will have saved the entire cheat world by telling of their warnings Everyone then downloads new hack and cheating resumes without being caught and resulting in no bans till VAC figures they're cheating once again and tries to figure out how to stop the said hack! That being said cheat authors branch out like trees and start creating more cheats and that is worse because now we end up in a loop like the old VAC days waiting around to play catchup Playing possum and watching them as you cheat as you suggest will serve no purpose as long as VAC2 can guarantee that when it catches someone they are in fact really cheating VAC will always be updated whenever a new cheat is released so long the project doesn't fall apart. Does this mean that we know VAC will be updated on the fly? If so, great. No need for a delay. It can only be updated as long as it keeps up with the cheats and we continue to help by informing them of new cheats and cheat sites when they pop up. But he will know it when all the little cheaters run to his forums and/or email him! Then he removes cheat and valve cant ban him because they waited and gave him a chance. Again: noone is asking cheaters to be given a chance to get away. (Except that Fred - Prism128 ;)) -Alex True h4x0r material :) Regards ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
yeah you do.. you grab it client side and trasmit with your auth info to either the server or steam.. but like I said it pointless as you can change it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of m0gely Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 1:44 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Micha Vermeer wrote: Most will have to change their modem mac adress, which is (slightly?) more difficult then your own computers nick, I think. ;) It doesn't work that way. The MAC address that you would detect on your server would be from the last router before hitting your box. You don't have any way of knowing their MAC. -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
It is actually a Windows registry setting STEAM being what it is though, I am not sure how unfeasible it would be to low level query the hardware MAC address of the NIC itself bypassing the OS altogether. That being said, it still won't help you with Modem users who don't have a MAC address, well not one in the same way a NIC does. On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 05:29:35 -0500, Napier, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and then they would just change there mac's (almost all current nic drivers support that) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:28 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. If only you could ban by MAC address *sigh* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:21 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Without going into the possibilties based on VAC2s structure / performance and how that relates to ID banning (possibly several from the same person, like the guy I know with six steamIDs), what alternative is there? In the world of dynamic IPs, that doesn't quite work out, so I don't know what else to try, and I don't know if Valve can/will implement a hardware ban a la Punkbuster. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yup, I can't wait until that's announced. Alexander Kobbevik wrote: Has Valve said anything about what VAC2 will be for? HalfLife2 engine only? Or others like HalfLife1/Counter-Strike? -Alex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roc Sent: 31. mars 2005 11:04 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Alexander Kobbevik wrote: Why do you think it is fair to warn of a possible anti-cheat that will work? We are talking about a serious company here. And I only said it's fair to announce the start of a new system. They want as much players as possible, this is the way to go. If I am correct the have the largest MP following! And as for fair, they were fair to give the warning as we all saw last week when we launced STEAM. ;) So that the possible cheating Admin can say gee, valve I'm not a cheater, I was just testing the hack to see how it works! Hum? I suggested a delay in the execution of the bans, not a second chance for the cheater. Everyone will be banned for cheating, but a delay will catch more ignorant cheaters and create a fear of the unknown. Like this: A cheat developer swims out on open sea... no sharks... tells his children that its safe... They all jump in and start swimming.. only to find out the shark has been observing.. and will now eat them all.. Instead of just eating the cheat tester because people noticed he got eaten. Don't you think for a minute that is exactly what has been done all these months whilst we sat here bitching about when is a vac update coming out I for one hope they already have a database on potentials! Warning gives them the opportunity to protect themselves and why would you want to protect a cheater? I don't want to warn a cheater, but again; Valve is a serious company. You can't do whatever you feel like when trying to be serious. See, this is why I believe your method is not the best! A warning does nothing but let the cheaters know their hack is broken. The game is not that expensive so they'll have a few spare keys to use testing the new hack. Then the new hack is released and what happens now is that all the cheaters who were warned will have saved the entire cheat world by telling of their warnings Everyone then downloads new hack and cheating resumes without being caught and resulting in no bans till VAC figures they're cheating once again and tries to figure out how to stop the said hack! That being said cheat authors branch out like trees and start creating more cheats and that is worse because now we end up in a loop like the old VAC days waiting around to play catchup Playing possum and watching them as you cheat as you suggest will serve no purpose as long as VAC2 can guarantee that when it catches someone they are in fact really cheating VAC will always be updated whenever a new cheat is released so long the project doesn't fall apart. Does this mean that we know VAC will be updated on the fly? If so, great. No need for a delay. It can only be updated as long as it keeps up with the cheats and we continue to help by informing them of new cheats and cheat sites when they pop up. But he will know it when all the little cheaters run to his forums and/or email him! Then he removes cheat and valve cant ban him because they waited and gave him a chance. Again: noone is asking cheaters to be given a chance to get away. (Except that Fred - Prism128 ;)) -Alex True h4x0r material :) Regards ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
- Original Message - From: WarCry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:35 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Obviously you didnt know that this lawsuit was overturned in appeal and the woman only managed to get her medical bills covered by the mcdonalds companies and thats it. My closing comments on topic: Bottom line is that VALVe will only be banning cheaters from secure servers. These players will continue to be able to cheat on non-secure servers to their heart's content. The original argument I replied to was the suggestion that cheaters be banned from all VALVe products, this will never happen, and for the exact reason you stated... Overturning via appeal, but still paying for medical bills, does not show that McDonalds won. Your suggestion of anything obvious is that you don't appreciate that McDonalds ultimaely lost the case; likewise, if you were to permanently ban any cheater from being able to use VALVe products, a class action lawsuit could easily be filed to force VALVe to refund the pruchase price of the software as people could prove they they didn't understand the TOS/ELUA in regard to software found to update their game play experience -- a good lawyer could prove that use of custom graphics, sounds, add-ons or maps could also be considered in the same category as any other download that would enhance an individuals game play experience via predition of movement, auto-aim, etc. Let's face it, a cheater is doing it for their enjoyment or they wouldn't be doing it. A lawyer could probably prove that their client needs to utilize the cheats in order to maintain an equal playing field between their client and good players due to fill-in-your-disability-of-choice, all because American's believe in absolute non-discrimination. Regards, Bud Ingram ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Nearly possitive it's for source products only. But one can still hold out hope. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonathan Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:02 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yup, I can't wait until that's announced. Alexander Kobbevik wrote: Has Valve said anything about what VAC2 will be for? HalfLife2 engine only? Or others like HalfLife1/Counter-Strike? -Alex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roc Sent: 31. mars 2005 11:04 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Alexander Kobbevik wrote: Why do you think it is fair to warn of a possible anti-cheat that will work? We are talking about a serious company here. And I only said it's fair to announce the start of a new system. They want as much players as possible, this is the way to go. If I am correct the have the largest MP following! And as for fair, they were fair to give the warning as we all saw last week when we launced STEAM. ;) So that the possible cheating Admin can say gee, valve I'm not a cheater, I was just testing the hack to see how it works! Hum? I suggested a delay in the execution of the bans, not a second chance for the cheater. Everyone will be banned for cheating, but a delay will catch more ignorant cheaters and create a fear of the unknown. Like this: A cheat developer swims out on open sea... no sharks... tells his children that its safe... They all jump in and start swimming.. only to find out the shark has been observing.. and will now eat them all.. Instead of just eating the cheat tester because people noticed he got eaten. Don't you think for a minute that is exactly what has been done all these months whilst we sat here bitching about when is a vac update coming out I for one hope they already have a database on potentials! Warning gives them the opportunity to protect themselves and why would you want to protect a cheater? I don't want to warn a cheater, but again; Valve is a serious company. You can't do whatever you feel like when trying to be serious. See, this is why I believe your method is not the best! A warning does nothing but let the cheaters know their hack is broken. The game is not that expensive so they'll have a few spare keys to use testing the new hack. Then the new hack is released and what happens now is that all the cheaters who were warned will have saved the entire cheat world by telling of their warnings Everyone then downloads new hack and cheating resumes without being caught and resulting in no bans till VAC figures they're cheating once again and tries to figure out how to stop the said hack! That being said cheat authors branch out like trees and start creating more cheats and that is worse because now we end up in a loop like the old VAC days waiting around to play catchup Playing possum and watching them as you cheat as you suggest will serve no purpose as long as VAC2 can guarantee that when it catches someone they are in fact really cheating VAC will always be updated whenever a new cheat is released so long the project doesn't fall apart. Does this mean that we know VAC will be updated on the fly? If so, great. No need for a delay. It can only be updated as long as it keeps up with the cheats and we continue to help by informing them of new cheats and cheat sites when they pop up. But he will know it when all the little cheaters run to his forums and/or email him! Then he removes cheat and valve cant ban him because they waited and gave him a chance. Again: noone is asking cheaters to be given a chance to get away. (Except that Fred - Prism128 ;)) -Alex True h4x0r material :) Regards ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Regarding the unique identifier method. An alternate would be (for intel
hacks users anyway) to use the serial # on the cpu itself to initiate the
ban. I don't know about you fellas, but I don't think most hax0rz would want
to replace their cpus each and every time they get detected. To my knowledge
this unique id is not alterable. But I don't think (sorry but I don't use
amd, don't endorse amd, nor would I ever be caught dead using an amd.
{because they got their start from a stolen intel design}) AMD has the same
type of processor registration.
My .02
StealthMode
#LoTgaming
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Whisper wrote: That being said, it still won't help you with Modem users who don't have a MAC address, well not one in the same way a NIC does. Dudes, your MAC (hardware) address never makes it to the servers you play on unless they are on the local LAN. They aren't routed. You can swap out, spoof, change, kick and spit on all your network gear all you want. You can't control this sort of thing via MAC address over the net. Sniff packets or something and you'll find out that all the players on your server have the same MAC. It's the MAC of the router your server is behind. You want to ban that? -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
I had believed it was going to be only for HL2 engine but if you re read the news post it kind of gives hope that ALL games will be covered. I think it also kind of touches on what you had suggested when it says: we will be logging cheating violations into our database to make sure it's ready for general release. This will be the last public notice before the system is released and active for everyone. Regards :) Alexander Kobbevik wrote: Has Valve said anything about what VAC2 will be for? HalfLife2 engine only? Or others like HalfLife1/Counter-Strike? -Alex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roc Sent: 31. mars 2005 11:04 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Alexander Kobbevik wrote: Why do you think it is fair to warn of a possible anti-cheat that will work? We are talking about a serious company here. And I only said it's fair to announce the start of a new system. They want as much players as possible, this is the way to go. If I am correct the have the largest MP following! And as for fair, they were fair to give the warning as we all saw last week when we launced STEAM. ;) So that the possible cheating Admin can say gee, valve I'm not a cheater, I was just testing the hack to see how it works! Hum? I suggested a delay in the execution of the bans, not a second chance for the cheater. Everyone will be banned for cheating, but a delay will catch more ignorant cheaters and create a fear of the unknown. Like this: A cheat developer swims out on open sea... no sharks... tells his children that its safe... They all jump in and start swimming.. only to find out the shark has been observing.. and will now eat them all.. Instead of just eating the cheat tester because people noticed he got eaten. Don't you think for a minute that is exactly what has been done all these months whilst we sat here bitching about when is a vac update coming out I for one hope they already have a database on potentials! Warning gives them the opportunity to protect themselves and why would you want to protect a cheater? I don't want to warn a cheater, but again; Valve is a serious company. You can't do whatever you feel like when trying to be serious. See, this is why I believe your method is not the best! A warning does nothing but let the cheaters know their hack is broken. The game is not that expensive so they'll have a few spare keys to use testing the new hack. Then the new hack is released and what happens now is that all the cheaters who were warned will have saved the entire cheat world by telling of their warnings Everyone then downloads new hack and cheating resumes without being caught and resulting in no bans till VAC figures they're cheating once again and tries to figure out how to stop the said hack! That being said cheat authors branch out like trees and start creating more cheats and that is worse because now we end up in a loop like the old VAC days waiting around to play catchup Playing possum and watching them as you cheat as you suggest will serve no purpose as long as VAC2 can guarantee that when it catches someone they are in fact really cheating VAC will always be updated whenever a new cheat is released so long the project doesn't fall apart. Does this mean that we know VAC will be updated on the fly? If so, great. No need for a delay. It can only be updated as long as it keeps up with the cheats and we continue to help by informing them of new cheats and cheat sites when they pop up. But he will know it when all the little cheaters run to his forums and/or email him! Then he removes cheat and valve cant ban him because they waited and gave him a chance. Again: noone is asking cheaters to be given a chance to get away. (Except that Fred - Prism128 ;)) -Alex True h4x0r material :) Regards ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
You misunderstood what I was saying. I was saying that the STEAM Client querys the Hardware address of the NIC directly and uses that as a Unique Hardware ID. Again not sure how viable an option this is. On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 09:25:43 -0800, m0gely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whisper wrote: That being said, it still won't help you with Modem users who don't have a MAC address, well not one in the same way a NIC does. Dudes, your MAC (hardware) address never makes it to the servers you play on unless they are on the local LAN. They aren't routed. You can swap out, spoof, change, kick and spit on all your network gear all you want. You can't control this sort of thing via MAC address over the net. Sniff packets or something and you'll find out that all the players on your server have the same MAC. It's the MAC of the router your server is behind. You want to ban that? -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Why would you think a kid who sits on his ass all day while mom and dad pay the bills will have the time and money to say hmm let me sue valve because I need to cheat Playing on a insecure server especially without CD is asking for trouble IMO lol To say you do not understand EULA/TOS when it clearly states click YES if you understand it won't work with a good prosecution team. You just threw your right to sue away! Regards Bud Ingram wrote: - Original Message - From: WarCry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:35 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Obviously you didnt know that this lawsuit was overturned in appeal and the woman only managed to get her medical bills covered by the mcdonalds companies and thats it. My closing comments on topic: Bottom line is that VALVe will only be banning cheaters from secure servers. These players will continue to be able to cheat on non-secure servers to their heart's content. The original argument I replied to was the suggestion that cheaters be banned from all VALVe products, this will never happen, and for the exact reason you stated... Overturning via appeal, but still paying for medical bills, does not show that McDonalds won. Your suggestion of anything obvious is that you don't appreciate that McDonalds ultimaely lost the case; likewise, if you were to permanently ban any cheater from being able to use VALVe products, a class action lawsuit could easily be filed to force VALVe to refund the pruchase price of the software as people could prove they they didn't understand the TOS/ELUA in regard to software found to update their game play experience -- a good lawyer could prove that use of custom graphics, sounds, add-ons or maps could also be considered in the same category as any other download that would enhance an individuals game play experience via predition of movement, auto-aim, etc. Let's face it, a cheater is doing it for their enjoyment or they wouldn't be doing it. A lawyer could probably prove that their client needs to utilize the cheats in order to maintain an equal playing field between their client and good players due to fill-in-your-disability-of-choice, all because American's believe in absolute non-discrimination. Regards, Bud Ingram ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Hopefully VAC2 will work ONLY for Source games and ONLY on secure servers. I would love to have one single focused platform which Valve continually updates instead of them trying to half-ass support everything out there. Let's move forward with Source and make secure servers the place to play! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roc Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:02 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Why would you think a kid who sits on his ass all day while mom and dad pay the bills will have the time and money to say hmm let me sue valve because I need to cheat Playing on a insecure server especially without CD is asking for trouble IMO lol To say you do not understand EULA/TOS when it clearly states click YES if you understand it won't work with a good prosecution team. You just threw your right to sue away! Regards Bud Ingram wrote: - Original Message - From: WarCry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:35 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Obviously you didnt know that this lawsuit was overturned in appeal and the woman only managed to get her medical bills covered by the mcdonalds companies and thats it. My closing comments on topic: Bottom line is that VALVe will only be banning cheaters from secure servers. These players will continue to be able to cheat on non-secure servers to their heart's content. The original argument I replied to was the suggestion that cheaters be banned from all VALVe products, this will never happen, and for the exact reason you stated... Overturning via appeal, but still paying for medical bills, does not show that McDonalds won. Your suggestion of anything obvious is that you don't appreciate that McDonalds ultimaely lost the case; likewise, if you were to permanently ban any cheater from being able to use VALVe products, a class action lawsuit could easily be filed to force VALVe to refund the pruchase price of the software as people could prove they they didn't understand the TOS/ELUA in regard to software found to update their game play experience -- a good lawyer could prove that use of custom graphics, sounds, add-ons or maps could also be considered in the same category as any other download that would enhance an individuals game play experience via predition of movement, auto-aim, etc. Let's face it, a cheater is doing it for their enjoyment or they wouldn't be doing it. A lawyer could probably prove that their client needs to utilize the cheats in order to maintain an equal playing field between their client and good players due to fill-in-your-disability-of-choice, all because American's believe in absolute non-discrimination. Regards, Bud Ingram ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Napier, Kevin wrote: Nearly possitive it's for source products only. But one can still hold out hope. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonathan Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:02 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yup, I can't wait until that's announced. Alexander Kobbevik wrote: Has Valve said anything about what VAC2 will be for? HalfLife2 engine only? Or others like HalfLife1/Counter-Strike? -Alex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roc Sent: 31. mars 2005 11:04 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Alexander Kobbevik wrote: Why do you think it is fair to warn of a possible anti-cheat that will work? We are talking about a serious company here. And I only said it's fair to announce the start of a new system. They want as much players as possible, this is the way to go. If I am correct the have the largest MP following! And as for fair, they were fair to give the warning as we all saw last week when we launced STEAM. ;) So that the possible cheating Admin can say gee, valve I'm not a cheater, I was just testing the hack to see how it works! Hum? I suggested a delay in the execution of the bans, not a second chance for the cheater. Everyone will be banned for cheating, but a delay will catch more ignorant cheaters and create a fear of the unknown. Like this: A cheat developer swims out on open sea... no sharks... tells his children that its safe... They all jump in and start swimming.. only to find out the shark has been observing.. and will now eat them all.. Instead of just eating the cheat tester because people noticed he got eaten. Don't you think for a minute that is exactly what has been done all these months whilst we sat here bitching about when is a vac update coming out I for one hope they already have a database on potentials! Warning gives them the opportunity to protect themselves and why would you want to protect a cheater? I don't want to warn a cheater, but again; Valve is a serious company. You can't do whatever you feel like when trying to be serious. See, this is why I believe your method is not the best! A warning does nothing but let the cheaters know their hack is broken. The game is not that expensive so they'll have a few spare keys to use testing the new hack. Then the new hack is released and what happens now is that all the cheaters who were warned will have saved the entire cheat world by telling of their warnings Everyone then downloads new hack and cheating resumes without being caught and resulting in no bans till VAC figures they're cheating once again and tries to figure out how to stop the said hack! That being said cheat authors branch out like trees and start creating more cheats and that is worse because now we end up in a loop like the old VAC days waiting around to play catchup Playing possum and watching them as you cheat as you suggest will serve no purpose as long as VAC2 can guarantee that when it catches someone they are in fact really cheating VAC will always be updated whenever a new cheat is released so long the project doesn't fall apart. Does this mean that we know VAC will be updated on the fly? If so, great. No need for a delay. It can only be updated as long as it keeps up with the cheats and we continue to help by informing them of new cheats and cheat sites when they pop up. But he will know it when all the little cheaters run to his forums and/or email him! Then he removes cheat and valve cant ban him because they waited and gave him a chance. Again: noone is asking cheaters to be given a chance to get away. (Except that Fred - Prism128 ;)) -Alex True h4x0r material :) Regards ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds I've always figured it was for source games only, but the bit about nosteam being detected makes me think (and hope) otherwise
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
I'm betting one of two things is going to happen. First one would be that tomorrow is April 1st. They could do a fake release of VAC2 as an April fools joke. Secondly, they could play it off like an April Fools joke and then have it really be active and ban a butt load of cheaters. I would prefer the latter but I have a gut feeling that it won't be. Zack Gerald Hefty wrote: Napier, Kevin wrote: Nearly possitive it's for source products only. But one can still hold out hope. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonathan Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:02 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yup, I can't wait until that's announced. Alexander Kobbevik wrote: Has Valve said anything about what VAC2 will be for? HalfLife2 engine only? Or others like HalfLife1/Counter-Strike? -Alex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roc Sent: 31. mars 2005 11:04 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Alexander Kobbevik wrote: Why do you think it is fair to warn of a possible anti-cheat that will work? We are talking about a serious company here. And I only said it's fair to announce the start of a new system. They want as much players as possible, this is the way to go. If I am correct the have the largest MP following! And as for fair, they were fair to give the warning as we all saw last week when we launced STEAM. ;) So that the possible cheating Admin can say gee, valve I'm not a cheater, I was just testing the hack to see how it works! Hum? I suggested a delay in the execution of the bans, not a second chance for the cheater. Everyone will be banned for cheating, but a delay will catch more ignorant cheaters and create a fear of the unknown. Like this: A cheat developer swims out on open sea... no sharks... tells his children that its safe... They all jump in and start swimming.. only to find out the shark has been observing.. and will now eat them all.. Instead of just eating the cheat tester because people noticed he got eaten. Don't you think for a minute that is exactly what has been done all these months whilst we sat here bitching about when is a vac update coming out I for one hope they already have a database on potentials! Warning gives them the opportunity to protect themselves and why would you want to protect a cheater? I don't want to warn a cheater, but again; Valve is a serious company. You can't do whatever you feel like when trying to be serious. See, this is why I believe your method is not the best! A warning does nothing but let the cheaters know their hack is broken. The game is not that expensive so they'll have a few spare keys to use testing the new hack. Then the new hack is released and what happens now is that all the cheaters who were warned will have saved the entire cheat world by telling of their warnings Everyone then downloads new hack and cheating resumes without being caught and resulting in no bans till VAC figures they're cheating once again and tries to figure out how to stop the said hack! That being said cheat authors branch out like trees and start creating more cheats and that is worse because now we end up in a loop like the old VAC days waiting around to play catchup Playing possum and watching them as you cheat as you suggest will serve no purpose as long as VAC2 can guarantee that when it catches someone they are in fact really cheating VAC will always be updated whenever a new cheat is released so long the project doesn't fall apart. Does this mean that we know VAC will be updated on the fly? If so, great. No need for a delay. It can only be updated as long as it keeps up with the cheats and we continue to help by informing them of new cheats and cheat sites when they pop up. But he will know it when all the little cheaters run to his forums and/or email him! Then he removes cheat and valve cant ban him because they waited and gave him a chance. Again: noone is asking cheaters to be given a chance to get away. (Except that Fred - Prism128 ;)) -Alex True h4x0r material :) Regards ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Couldn't agree with you more ;) Regards Darren Mason wrote: Hopefully VAC2 will work ONLY for Source games and ONLY on secure servers. I would love to have one single focused platform which Valve continually updates instead of them trying to half-ass support everything out there. Let's move forward with Source and make secure servers the place to play! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roc Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:02 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Why would you think a kid who sits on his ass all day while mom and dad pay the bills will have the time and money to say hmm let me sue valve because I need to cheat Playing on a insecure server especially without CD is asking for trouble IMO lol To say you do not understand EULA/TOS when it clearly states click YES if you understand it won't work with a good prosecution team. You just threw your right to sue away! Regards Bud Ingram wrote: ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Hmm, currently according to steam: Hl1 users online: 113,000+ Hl1 Servers online: 55,700+ Source users online: 49,000+ Source Servers online: 19,400+ It is always a good business model to piss off the majority of your customers (2.3 times more hl1 players). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:27 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hopefully VAC2 will work ONLY for Source games and ONLY on secure servers. I would love to have one single focused platform which Valve continually updates instead of them trying to half-ass support everything out there. Let's move forward with Source and make secure servers the place to play! ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Considering there is NO real effective anticheat measures through valve for either of these groups, by moving forward with Source games only, they would effectively win our (Source server ops) continued business AND we would strongly encourage HL1 users to upgrade. HL1 users would be in the same position they are now, and by learning HL2/Source servers/games are utilizing new state of the art anti-cheat measures - I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deadman Standing Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 1:02 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hmm, currently according to steam: Hl1 users online: 113,000+ Hl1 Servers online: 55,700+ Source users online: 49,000+ Source Servers online: 19,400+ It is always a good business model to piss off the majority of your customers (2.3 times more hl1 players). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:27 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hopefully VAC2 will work ONLY for Source games and ONLY on secure servers. I would love to have one single focused platform which Valve continually updates instead of them trying to half-ass support everything out there. Let's move forward with Source and make secure servers the place to play! ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Isn't Valve (and many many other companies) good at that? After all, who wanted Steam? Valve. And only Valve. Everyone else said, no, don't do it. Granted it's a lot more mature now then it used to be, but half of the problem with Steam in the early days of Steam is that it was not very reliable. Actually, the first non-beta releases really sucked. And they *still* haven't fixed the clientregistry.blob issues, I can't tell you how many times I've had to physically delete that file to fix this or that problem. - Original Message - From: Deadman Standing [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 1:01 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hmm, currently according to steam: Hl1 users online: 113,000+ Hl1 Servers online: 55,700+ Source users online: 49,000+ Source Servers online: 19,400+ It is always a good business model to piss off the majority of your customers (2.3 times more hl1 players). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:27 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hopefully VAC2 will work ONLY for Source games and ONLY on secure servers. I would love to have one single focused platform which Valve continually updates instead of them trying to half-ass support everything out there. Let's move forward with Source and make secure servers the place to play! ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Dude I'm not talking about network traffic.. (as I said I was talking about capturuing it on the client (query the card) wrap it up in and just sending it along with the other connection\login info for the request).. that's.. Again all a pointless discussion anyway. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of m0gely Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:26 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Whisper wrote: That being said, it still won't help you with Modem users who don't have a MAC address, well not one in the same way a NIC does. Dudes, your MAC (hardware) address never makes it to the servers you play on unless they are on the local LAN. They aren't routed. You can swap out, spoof, change, kick and spit on all your network gear all you want. You can't control this sort of thing via MAC address over the net. Sniff packets or something and you'll find out that all the players on your server have the same MAC. It's the MAC of the router your server is behind. You want to ban that? -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
For the record, I think it's way cool that with Steam, I can go to any workstation and log into and play my account. If I loose my install disks or CD key, so what? Refore my hard drive, big deal, don't have to go hunting for cd and key, so long as I remember my login. Steam today is nice and for the most part works very well. But at first it was pure shinola... - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Isn't Valve (and many many other companies) good at that? After all, who wanted Steam? Valve. And only Valve. Everyone else said, no, don't do it. Granted it's a lot more mature now then it used to be, but half of the problem with Steam in the early days of Steam is that it was not very reliable. Actually, the first non-beta releases really sucked. And they *still* haven't fixed the clientregistry.blob issues, I can't tell you how many times I've had to physically delete that file to fix this or that problem. - Original Message - From: Deadman Standing [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 1:01 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hmm, currently according to steam: Hl1 users online: 113,000+ Hl1 Servers online: 55,700+ Source users online: 49,000+ Source Servers online: 19,400+ It is always a good business model to piss off the majority of your customers (2.3 times more hl1 players). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:27 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hopefully VAC2 will work ONLY for Source games and ONLY on secure servers. I would love to have one single focused platform which Valve continually updates instead of them trying to half-ass support everything out there. Let's move forward with Source and make secure servers the place to play! ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Oh gawd What part of this don't you get Im not talking about sniffing packets or traffic or antthing like that. Everybody who plays Valve games has to have an application called STEAM that runs on their computer. Why cant this application (that people are forced to run) be used to pick up certain hardware details at a hardware level and not via the OS? I don't understand how I am not being clear about this! On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:11:56 -0500, Napier, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dude I'm not talking about network traffic.. (as I said I was talking about capturuing it on the client (query the card) wrap it up in and just sending it along with the other connection\login info for the request).. that's.. Again all a pointless discussion anyway. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of m0gely Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:26 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Whisper wrote: That being said, it still won't help you with Modem users who don't have a MAC address, well not one in the same way a NIC does. Dudes, your MAC (hardware) address never makes it to the servers you play on unless they are on the local LAN. They aren't routed. You can swap out, spoof, change, kick and spit on all your network gear all you want. You can't control this sort of thing via MAC address over the net. Sniff packets or something and you'll find out that all the players on your server have the same MAC. It's the MAC of the router your server is behind. You want to ban that? -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
For the people that are talking about Source-only support with VAC2 ... I'm pretty sure it's going to work on both HL1 and its successor. Could be wrong, but that's my guess. Whisper wrote: Oh gawd What part of this don't you get Im not talking about sniffing packets or traffic or antthing like that. Everybody who plays Valve games has to have an application called STEAM that runs on their computer. Why cant this application (that people are forced to run) be used to pick up certain hardware details at a hardware level and not via the OS? I don't understand how I am not being clear about this! On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:11:56 -0500, Napier, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dude I'm not talking about network traffic.. (as I said I was talking about capturuing it on the client (query the card) wrap it up in and just sending it along with the other connection\login info for the request).. that's.. Again all a pointless discussion anyway. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of m0gely Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:26 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Whisper wrote: That being said, it still won't help you with Modem users who don't have a MAC address, well not one in the same way a NIC does. Dudes, your MAC (hardware) address never makes it to the servers you play on unless they are on the local LAN. They aren't routed. You can swap out, spoof, change, kick and spit on all your network gear all you want. You can't control this sort of thing via MAC address over the net. Sniff packets or something and you'll find out that all the players on your server have the same MAC. It's the MAC of the router your server is behind. You want to ban that? -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
The thread that keeps on going and going. Why discuss this at all? I can say this without any reservations: Anyone who claims there is no way to stop cheats or disputes the value of anti-cheat systems or disparages the effort in any way are the supporters of cheat user, cheat authors, and, depending upon the psychological fingerprint of the verbiage used, are the cheat authors themselves. So why wast this audience's time discussing something the VAC Team is assigned to deal with. They know what they are doing. Let them do their job. If they ask for input give it. Otherwise it is wasted bits. Whisper wrote: Oh gawd What part of this don't you get Im not talking about sniffing packets or traffic or antthing like that. Everybody who plays Valve games has to have an application called STEAM that runs on their computer. Why cant this application (that people are forced to run) be used to pick up certain hardware details at a hardware level and not via the OS? I don't understand how I am not being clear about this! ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Before the steam auth system was compromised, steamIDs were the perfect ban identifier. Alfred's words were nosteam will be considered a cheat and they will be banned..., but i think he was being fecitious. Obviously this issue needs to be addressed. Dave On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:11:56 -0500, Napier, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dude I'm not talking about network traffic.. (as I said I was talking about capturuing it on the client (query the card) wrap it up in and just sending it along with the other connection\login info for the request).. that's.. Again all a pointless discussion anyway. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of m0gely Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:26 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Whisper wrote: That being said, it still won't help you with Modem users who don't have a MAC address, well not one in the same way a NIC does. Dudes, your MAC (hardware) address never makes it to the servers you play on unless they are on the local LAN. They aren't routed. You can swap out, spoof, change, kick and spit on all your network gear all you want. You can't control this sort of thing via MAC address over the net. Sniff packets or something and you'll find out that all the players on your server have the same MAC. It's the MAC of the router your server is behind. You want to ban that? -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Hey, You guys are all missing the fact that the Steam ID system already has the ability to be unique/secure. Heres a c+p of an email I sent a while back as it explains a few things. There already is a unique ID system, there is no need to make a different/another one. Since each game (source for example) requires a legit purchase, with a credit card - your already restricting the Steam IDs using the game. The only reason there are so many Steam IDs around due to nosteam etc should be explained below: * Nosteam user generates a new STEAM ID through a new account scree * User does whatever so he has access to all games * He then joins a legit server At this time, since we know his Steam ID, the gameserver asks a valve master server 'Hey, does STEAM_ own cs: source?' Since you can do a lookup at your end, you could return a message saying 'No, no record of them purchasing/owning this game - Disconnect them now'. How easy is that?! This would PREVENT them from joining our legit servers - Meaning only people who have purchased the game, could play on our LEGIT servers. Theres my thinking on the whole Steam ID issue. There is absolutly no need (and would be less secure) for making a different ID system, its a moot point, the Steam ID system works, it just needs to be fixed. - Plasma ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Not to add wood to the fire, but amd currently thrashes intel for
gaming cpus. I am not loyal to either, but right now amd is
definitely better performance-wise and economically. You simply can
not getter a better value than an athlon64 right now.
Dave
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:33:24 -0500, StealthMode
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Regarding the unique identifier method. An alternate would be (for intel
hacks users anyway) to use the serial # on the cpu itself to initiate the
ban. I don't know about you fellas, but I don't think most hax0rz would want
to replace their cpus each and every time they get detected. To my knowledge
this unique id is not alterable. But I don't think (sorry but I don't use
amd, don't endorse amd, nor would I ever be caught dead using an amd.
{because they got their start from a stolen intel design}) AMD has the same
type of processor registration.
My .02
StealthMode
#LoTgaming
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RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
I can't remember ever hearing Albert being facetious when relating important development information to server ops... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Fencik Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:42 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Before the steam auth system was compromised, steamIDs were the perfect ban identifier. Alfred's words were nosteam will be considered a cheat and they will be banned..., but i think he was being fecitious. Obviously this issue needs to be addressed. Dave On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:11:56 -0500, Napier, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dude I'm not talking about network traffic.. (as I said I was talking about capturuing it on the client (query the card) wrap it up in and just sending it along with the other connection\login info for the request).. that's.. Again all a pointless discussion anyway. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of m0gely Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:26 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Whisper wrote: That being said, it still won't help you with Modem users who don't have a MAC address, well not one in the same way a NIC does. Dudes, your MAC (hardware) address never makes it to the servers you play on unless they are on the local LAN. They aren't routed. You can swap out, spoof, change, kick and spit on all your network gear all you want. You can't control this sort of thing via MAC address over the net. Sniff packets or something and you'll find out that all the players on your server have the same MAC. It's the MAC of the router your server is behind. You want to ban that? -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Anyone who claims there is no way to stop cheats or disputes the value of anti-cheat systems or disparages the effort in any way are the supporters of cheat user, cheat authors, and, depending upon the psychological fingerprint of the verbiage used, are the cheat authors themselves. No offense but that's um hogwash. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Can't we just have WON back. :---) -Oh come on someone had to say it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:58 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hey, You guys are all missing the fact that the Steam ID system already has the ability to be unique/secure. Heres a c+p of an email I sent a while back as it explains a few things. There already is a unique ID system, there is no need to make a different/another one. Since each game (source for example) requires a legit purchase, with a credit card - your already restricting the Steam IDs using the game. The only reason there are so many Steam IDs around due to nosteam etc should be explained below: * Nosteam user generates a new STEAM ID through a new account scree * User does whatever so he has access to all games * He then joins a legit server At this time, since we know his Steam ID, the gameserver asks a valve master server 'Hey, does STEAM_ own cs: source?' Since you can do a lookup at your end, you could return a message saying 'No, no record of them purchasing/owning this game - Disconnect them now'. How easy is that?! This would PREVENT them from joining our legit servers - Meaning only people who have purchased the game, could play on our LEGIT servers. Theres my thinking on the whole Steam ID issue. There is absolutly no need (and would be less secure) for making a different ID system, its a moot point, the Steam ID system works, it just needs to be fixed. - Plasma ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
your being perfectly clear. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Whisper Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:23 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Oh gawd What part of this don't you get Im not talking about sniffing packets or traffic or antthing like that. Everybody who plays Valve games has to have an application called STEAM that runs on their computer. Why cant this application (that people are forced to run) be used to pick up certain hardware details at a hardware level and not via the OS? I don't understand how I am not being clear about this! On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:11:56 -0500, Napier, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dude I'm not talking about network traffic.. (as I said I was talking about capturuing it on the client (query the card) wrap it up in and just sending it along with the other connection\login info for the request).. that's.. Again all a pointless discussion anyway. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of m0gely Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:26 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Whisper wrote: That being said, it still won't help you with Modem users who don't have a MAC address, well not one in the same way a NIC does. Dudes, your MAC (hardware) address never makes it to the servers you play on unless they are on the local LAN. They aren't routed. You can swap out, spoof, change, kick and spit on all your network gear all you want. You can't control this sort of thing via MAC address over the net. Sniff packets or something and you'll find out that all the players on your server have the same MAC. It's the MAC of the router your server is behind. You want to ban that? -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Oh I can.. but he wasn't working for Valve at the time. :--) However yes I belive the intent of the sentence was that they having some method of detecting the condition, but it also sounds like it's not fundamentally fixed... probably will not be untill Steam v3.0 (the revenge of the .gcf) --ok I'm cutting myself off for the rest of the day to many hlds posts -- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:01 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I can't remember ever hearing Albert being facetious when relating important development information to server ops... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Fencik Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:42 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Before the steam auth system was compromised, steamIDs were the perfect ban identifier. Alfred's words were nosteam will be considered a cheat and they will be banned..., but i think he was being fecitious. Obviously this issue needs to be addressed. Dave On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:11:56 -0500, Napier, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dude I'm not talking about network traffic.. (as I said I was talking about capturuing it on the client (query the card) wrap it up in and just sending it along with the other connection\login info for the request).. that's.. Again all a pointless discussion anyway. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of m0gely Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:26 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Whisper wrote: That being said, it still won't help you with Modem users who don't have a MAC address, well not one in the same way a NIC does. Dudes, your MAC (hardware) address never makes it to the servers you play on unless they are on the local LAN. They aren't routed. You can swap out, spoof, change, kick and spit on all your network gear all you want. You can't control this sort of thing via MAC address over the net. Sniff packets or something and you'll find out that all the players on your server have the same MAC. It's the MAC of the router your server is behind. You want to ban that? -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Napier, Kevin wrote: ^^^ HAXOR ALERT! lol ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Flame retartant anyone? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. Almost all people I know (IRL) who plays Halflife did already buy HalfLife2 with CS:S, tested it, then went back to CS1.6. To me its clear that CS:S is not mature enough yet. Most people I have spoken to don't like it, but they have the game. To me it seems Valve already got their money for the upgrade. And don't forget the hardware requirement for HalfLife2 compared to HalfLife1. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: 31. mars 2005 23:31 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Considering there is NO real effective anticheat measures through valve for either of these groups, by moving forward with Source games only, they would effectively win our (Source server ops) continued business AND we would strongly encourage HL1 users to upgrade. HL1 users would be in the same position they are now, and by learning HL2/Source servers/games are utilizing new state of the art anti-cheat measures - I would bet a majority of them would purchase the upgrade. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deadman Standing Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 1:02 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hmm, currently according to steam: Hl1 users online: 113,000+ Hl1 Servers online: 55,700+ Source users online: 49,000+ Source Servers online: 19,400+ It is always a good business model to piss off the majority of your customers (2.3 times more hl1 players). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Mason Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:27 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Hopefully VAC2 will work ONLY for Source games and ONLY on secure servers. I would love to have one single focused platform which Valve continually updates instead of them trying to half-ass support everything out there. Let's move forward with Source and make secure servers the place to play! ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Personally I want cheaters banned as soon as they join the server, none of this 'checking' stuff. - Original Message - From: Alexander Kobbevik [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:02 PM Subject: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I been away from this list for a while and after seeing the last update notice I ran back. Can I make a suggestion for VAC2, please? I know its only fair to warn before inserting a new system that will try to catch cheaters. I also know that it's the right way to do it when you are acctually trying to get more players, and not less. But, here goes. What if you update VAC2... but only record cheats until the next update. Then you ban the collected list and start a new recording after the new VAC2 update. This way you create a fear for cheating... which is one of the most successfull ways of stopping people from trying to cheat... They can't just have someone else check if the cheat gets detected first, then use it until the next VAC2 update. To me this sounds like a really good idea, but it popped up an hour ago while reading the archive.. so maybe I missed some side affect... If people comment on this idea, maybe valve will consider it? -Alexander [GNIZ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
- Original Message - From: Andrew Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Personally I want cheaters banned as soon as they join the server, none of this 'checking' stuff. I will second that no pint in giving these ppl a timaeframe to cheat, and IMO I can't see the difference between the threat of being banned as soon as you join to being banned a week later. The fear is there and giving them a week gives them a chance to anoy people while your waitng for the next update to get them banned. - Original Message - From: Alexander Kobbevik [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:02 PM Subject: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I been away from this list for a while and after seeing the last update notice I ran back. Can I make a suggestion for VAC2, please? I know its only fair to warn before inserting a new system that will try to catch cheaters. I also know that it's the right way to do it when you are acctually trying to get more players, and not less. But, here goes. What if you update VAC2... but only record cheats until the next update. Then you ban the collected list and start a new recording after the new VAC2 update. This way you create a fear for cheating... which is one of the most successfull ways of stopping people from trying to cheat... They can't just have someone else check if the cheat gets detected first, then use it until the next VAC2 update. To me this sounds like a really good idea, but it popped up an hour ago while reading the archive.. so maybe I missed some side affect... If people comment on this idea, maybe valve will consider it? -Alexander [GNIZ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
What if they made a new cheat, tested it, banned. Now not only does no one ever experience that cheat, the developer of it just got his account banned. Number of more hackers on servers for a few days: 0 Whereas if we waited a day: Number of hackers: however many downloaded the cheat in the first place. In the end, if you install a cheat and get banned, good, if you dont install it in the first place, even better. - Original Message - From: Alexander Kobbevik [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:11 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Buffer them for a day then? You don't see the benefit from this? Let's say those magots make a new cheat.. test it.. and it goes through VAC2; They now have a working cheat for thousands to download without the fear, right? Unless VAC2 will be updated without notice? I still stand by my idea, but maybe between updates is too long. -Alex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BoNfiRe Sent: 30. mars 2005 12:46 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. - Original Message - From: Andrew Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Personally I want cheaters banned as soon as they join the server, none of this 'checking' stuff. I will second that no pint in giving these ppl a timaeframe to cheat, and IMO I can't see the difference between the threat of being banned as soon as you join to being banned a week later. The fear is there and giving them a week gives them a chance to anoy people while your waitng for the next update to get them banned. - Original Message - From: Alexander Kobbevik [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:02 PM Subject: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I been away from this list for a while and after seeing the last update notice I ran back. Can I make a suggestion for VAC2, please? I know its only fair to warn before inserting a new system that will try to catch cheaters. I also know that it's the right way to do it when you are acctually trying to get more players, and not less. But, here goes. What if you update VAC2... but only record cheats until the next update. Then you ban the collected list and start a new recording after the new VAC2 update. This way you create a fear for cheating... which is one of the most successfull ways of stopping people from trying to cheat... They can't just have someone else check if the cheat gets detected first, then use it until the next VAC2 update. To me this sounds like a really good idea, but it popped up an hour ago while reading the archive.. so maybe I missed some side affect... If people comment on this idea, maybe valve will consider it? -Alexander [GNIZ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Another Suggestion, to really get people to fear cheating, after VAC2 having proven itself, make the ban steam wide, not just for the application being played, they should not be able to play anything at all, not even on non-secure servers. Don't even give them a chance to enjoy the game(s) they've tried to ruin for others. Just like with (what used to be) the Catholic church, if you want to repent, it will cost you money, in the form of having to buy another Steam Account. (No flame intended) We'll have to come up with a solution for the pubs though :/ (if clients want to play CS(S), boot to a clean image, where security disallows any additional files in the dir's (where possible). ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
I just don't have that much trust in VAC2 yet. But if it is really good and working, ofcourse they should be banned right away. Now not only does no one ever experience that cheat, the developer of it just got his account banned. The developer got his account banned anyways, he will just not know it until valve execute their list of banns collected. -Alex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: 30. mars 2005 13:17 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. What if they made a new cheat, tested it, banned. Now not only does no one ever experience that cheat, the developer of it just got his account banned. Number of more hackers on servers for a few days: 0 Whereas if we waited a day: Number of hackers: however many downloaded the cheat in the first place. In the end, if you install a cheat and get banned, good, if you dont install it in the first place, even better. - Original Message - From: Alexander Kobbevik [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:11 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Buffer them for a day then? You don't see the benefit from this? Let's say those magots make a new cheat.. test it.. and it goes through VAC2; They now have a working cheat for thousands to download without the fear, right? Unless VAC2 will be updated without notice? I still stand by my idea, but maybe between updates is too long. -Alex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BoNfiRe Sent: 30. mars 2005 12:46 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. - Original Message - From: Andrew Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Personally I want cheaters banned as soon as they join the server, none of this 'checking' stuff. I will second that no pint in giving these ppl a timaeframe to cheat, and IMO I can't see the difference between the threat of being banned as soon as you join to being banned a week later. The fear is there and giving them a week gives them a chance to anoy people while your waitng for the next update to get them banned. - Original Message - From: Alexander Kobbevik [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:02 PM Subject: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I been away from this list for a while and after seeing the last update notice I ran back. Can I make a suggestion for VAC2, please? I know its only fair to warn before inserting a new system that will try to catch cheaters. I also know that it's the right way to do it when you are acctually trying to get more players, and not less. But, here goes. What if you update VAC2... but only record cheats until the next update. Then you ban the collected list and start a new recording after the new VAC2 update. This way you create a fear for cheating... which is one of the most successfull ways of stopping people from trying to cheat... They can't just have someone else check if the cheat gets detected first, then use it until the next VAC2 update. To me this sounds like a really good idea, but it popped up an hour ago while reading the archive.. so maybe I missed some side affect... If people comment on this idea, maybe valve will consider it? -Alexander [GNIZ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 5:25 AM Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Don't even give them a chance to enjoy the game(s) they've tried to ruin for others. I'm sure that VALVe would be all over this if you offered to refund the retailers, and cover the legal bills from the resultant lawsuits filed by those who are banned and cannot play their games at all. Regards, Bud Ingram ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
I don't think that would be much of a problem... they are in violation of the User Agreement. VAC2 would of course have evidence to back up the reason why it banned that account. Anyway, most casual cheaters will not be bothered enough to risk their account, the rest of them would not have the money to sustain a lawyer long enough. And if someone does get the guts and the money (or they are banned by mistake), VALVe requires that a thorough investigation is held (or something like this). The 0.01 % of people that does get trough all that... well, that's collateral damage. I don't think its likely that VALVe would get sued for millions for a mistakenly banned account. Just my 2 eurocents Micha Vermeer - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 5:25 AM Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Don't even give them a chance to enjoy the game(s) they've tried to ruin for others. I'm sure that VALVe would be all over this if you offered to refund the retailers, and cover the legal bills from the resultant lawsuits filed by those who are banned and cannot play their games at all. Regards, Bud Ingram ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Anyone know if server admins will know if someone was banned on their server or not? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik Sent: 30 March 2005 12:03 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I been away from this list for a while and after seeing the last update notice I ran back. Can I make a suggestion for VAC2, please? I know its only fair to warn before inserting a new system that will try to catch cheaters. I also know that it's the right way to do it when you are acctually trying to get more players, and not less. But, here goes. What if you update VAC2... but only record cheats until the next update. Then you ban the collected list and start a new recording after the new VAC2 update. This way you create a fear for cheating... which is one of the most successfull ways of stopping people from trying to cheat... They can't just have someone else check if the cheat gets detected first, then use it until the next VAC2 update. To me this sounds like a really good idea, but it popped up an hour ago while reading the archive.. so maybe I missed some side affect... If people comment on this idea, maybe valve will consider it? -Alexander [GNIZ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Umm no WTF would you want to give little cheating pricks any leniancy whatsoever? What drugs are you on? If you are not on drugs start thinking about taking some! Cheating is the biggest #1 scourge of online gaming Valve screw up, thats a given, but cheating and the problems they cause are and entirely different order of magintude than any other problem players and server adminstrators face today and in the future. On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 13:56:46 +0100, Fred - Prism128 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well the server would have to have VAC2 turned on (i think)? apart from that i dunno. erm, IMO, cheaters should be given a warning, like a little popup, client-side, that says VAC2 caught ur cheat, do it again and ur banned, and maybe a temporary ban of 1 week... cos some people just do not listen to warnings... this would also help if, say, a friend, relative or whoever put a cheat on ur CSS without you knowing... kinda unfair to instant-perm-ban in my opinion... ;-) - Original Message - From: Pawel Dabrowski To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:32 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Anyone know if server admins will know if someone was banned on their server or not? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik Sent: 30 March 2005 12:03 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I been away from this list for a while and after seeing the last update notice I ran back. Can I make a suggestion for VAC2, please? I know its only fair to warn before inserting a new system that will try to catch cheaters. I also know that it's the right way to do it when you are acctually trying to get more players, and not less. But, here goes. What if you update VAC2... but only record cheats until the next update. Then you ban the collected list and start a new recording after the new VAC2 update. This way you create a fear for cheating... which is one of the most successfull ways of stopping people from trying to cheat... They can't just have someone else check if the cheat gets detected first, then use it until the next VAC2 update. To me this sounds like a really good idea, but it popped up an hour ago while reading the archive.. so maybe I missed some side affect... If people comment on this idea, maybe valve will consider it? -Alexander [GNIZ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
if they didnt mean to cheat? no drugs thnx :P no cheating is like #2 or maybe #3. #1 is LAG. or maybe instead or as well as my idea... maybe not permanent ban... maybe 1 month? then next time 6 months, then 1 year, then forever. - Original Message - From: Whisper To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Umm no WTF would you want to give little cheating pricks any leniancy whatsoever? What drugs are you on? If you are not on drugs start thinking about taking some! Cheating is the biggest #1 scourge of online gaming Valve screw up, thats a given, but cheating and the problems they cause are and entirely different order of magintude than any other problem players and server adminstrators face today and in the future. On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 13:56:46 +0100, Fred - Prism128 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well the server would have to have VAC2 turned on (i think)? apart from that i dunno. erm, IMO, cheaters should be given a warning, like a little popup, client-side, that says VAC2 caught ur cheat, do it again and ur banned, and maybe a temporary ban of 1 week... cos some people just do not listen to warnings... this would also help if, say, a friend, relative or whoever put a cheat on ur CSS without you knowing... kinda unfair to instant-perm-ban in my opinion... ;-) - Original Message - From: Pawel Dabrowski To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:32 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Anyone know if server admins will know if someone was banned on their server or not? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik Sent: 30 March 2005 12:03 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I been away from this list for a while and after seeing the last update notice I ran back. Can I make a suggestion for VAC2, please? I know its only fair to warn before inserting a new system that will try to catch cheaters. I also know that it's the right way to do it when you are acctually trying to get more players, and not less. But, here goes. What if you update VAC2... but only record cheats until the next update. Then you ban the collected list and start a new recording after the new VAC2 update. This way you create a fear for cheating... which is one of the most successfull ways of stopping people from trying to cheat... They can't just have someone else check if the cheat gets detected first, then use it until the next VAC2 update. To me this sounds like a really good idea, but it popped up an hour ago while reading the archive.. so maybe I missed some side affect... If people comment on this idea, maybe valve will consider it? -Alexander [GNIZ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
I agree once a cheater always a cheater. Make him pay for his mistakes by making him buy another copy of the game that way valve get richer and hopfully invest more time and effort into VAC2 making us server admins happier. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Whisper Sent: 30 March 2005 15:07 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Umm no WTF would you want to give little cheating pricks any leniancy whatsoever? What drugs are you on? If you are not on drugs start thinking about taking some! Cheating is the biggest #1 scourge of online gaming Valve screw up, thats a given, but cheating and the problems they cause are and entirely different order of magintude than any other problem players and server adminstrators face today and in the future. On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 13:56:46 +0100, Fred - Prism128 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well the server would have to have VAC2 turned on (i think)? apart from that i dunno. erm, IMO, cheaters should be given a warning, like a little popup, client-side, that says VAC2 caught ur cheat, do it again and ur banned, and maybe a temporary ban of 1 week... cos some people just do not listen to warnings... this would also help if, say, a friend, relative or whoever put a cheat on ur CSS without you knowing... kinda unfair to instant-perm-ban in my opinion... ;-) - Original Message - From: Pawel Dabrowski To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:32 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Anyone know if server admins will know if someone was banned on their server or not? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik Sent: 30 March 2005 12:03 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I been away from this list for a while and after seeing the last update notice I ran back. Can I make a suggestion for VAC2, please? I know its only fair to warn before inserting a new system that will try to catch cheaters. I also know that it's the right way to do it when you are acctually trying to get more players, and not less. But, here goes. What if you update VAC2... but only record cheats until the next update. Then you ban the collected list and start a new recording after the new VAC2 update. This way you create a fear for cheating... which is one of the most successfull ways of stopping people from trying to cheat... They can't just have someone else check if the cheat gets detected first, then use it until the next VAC2 update. To me this sounds like a really good idea, but it popped up an hour ago while reading the archive.. so maybe I missed some side affect... If people comment on this idea, maybe valve will consider it? -Alexander [GNIZ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 6:23 AM Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I don't think its likely that VALVe would get sued for millions for a mistakenly banned account. You forget the mentality of those Americans that see a law suit as a way to become rich. Regards, Geoff Finn ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Ehm, did I not suggest this already? Here is another copy of my mails to this list, because it seems everyone missed them... 1st mail-- Another Suggestion, to really get people to fear cheating, after VAC2 having proven itself, make the ban steam wide, not just for the application being played, they should not be able to play anything at all, not even on non-secure servers. Don't even give them a chance to enjoy the game(s) they've tried to ruin for others. Just like with (what used to be) the Catholic church, if you want to repent, it will cost you money, in the form of having to buy another Steam Account. (No flame intended) We'll have to come up with a solution for the pubs though :/ (if clients want to play CS(S), boot to a clean image, where security disallows any additional files in the dir's (where possible). -then a Message from Bud Ingram- Don't even give them a chance to enjoy the game(s) they've tried to ruin for others. I'm sure that VALVe would be all over this if you offered to refund the retailers, and cover the legal bills from the resultant lawsuits filed by those who are banned and cannot play their games at all. Regards, Bud Ingram 2nd mail in reply to Bud Ingram-- I don't think that would be much of a problem... they are in violation of the User Agreement. VAC2 would of course have evidence to back up the reason why it banned that account. Anyway, most casual cheaters will not be bothered enough to risk their account, the rest of them would not have the money to sustain a lawyer long enough. And if someone does get the guts and the money (or they are banned by mistake), VALVe requires that a thorough investigation is held (or something like this). The 0.01 % of people that does get trough all that... well, that's collateral damage. I don't think its likely that VALVe would get sued for millions for a mistakenly banned account. Just my 2 eurocents Micha Vermeer ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Strongly disagree here: We'll have to come up with a solution for the pubs though :/ (if clients want to play CS(S), boot to a clean image, where security disallows any additional files in the dir's (where possible). IOT make the cheats work, files need to be copied to the working computer. If the net cafe/ public room server operators don't know how to do this (they should be running some web prog template over the OS already) they can ask for help. Isn't too hard. Oh and btw, my brother used my account and cheated holds no water with me. Perhaps the weekly valve news update needs to lay this out though in plain terms for all to read. If you use a cheat, you account will be banned from all servers. You will only be able to play against bots for the rest of your life unless you want to purchase a new account. my $.02 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
To this, if your server says if you play in this server and you hack in this server your account will be permantly banned from steam and you hack, then you violate terms of agreement to play on the server anyway. This would be the user's own fault and therefore any lawsuit would be bogus and crap anyway. And another thing.. EULA: Steam and the Steam Software may include functionality designed to identify software or hardware processes or functionality that may give a player an unfair competitive advantage when playing multiplayer versions of any Steam Software, other Valve products, or modifications thereof (Cheats). You agree that you will not directly or indirectly disable, circumvent, or otherwise interfere with the operation of software designed to prevent or report the use of Cheats. You acknowledge and agree that either Valve or any online multiplayer host may refuse to allow you to participate in certain online multiplayer games if you use Cheats in connection with Steam or the Steam Software. Further, you acknowledge and agree that an online multiplayer host may report your use of Cheats to Valve, and Valve may communicate your history of use of Cheats to other online multiplayer hosts for Valve products. Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, Cheating or otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers. You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscriptions(s) and/or Account, but it may choose to do so. If people read the EULA (which a lawyer will probably end up doing) it says right there, IF YOU CHEAT valve doesnt even need to notify you that your account is banned.. I know there will never be an end to hackers or stupid lawsuits, but right there is standing proof, that if you sue a store for being banned from steam because you hacked, you violated the EULA.. aka meaning, your lawsuit is pathetic and that store isnt liable for your refund. It is that users own damn fault. (written to the following) I'm sure that VALVe would be all over this if you offered to refund the retailers, and cover the legal bills from the resultant lawsuits filed by those who are banned and cannot play their games at all. Regards, Bud Ingram ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
If the gaming community got together on this topic and did some research we might find some interesting language in many service agreements that cheaters routinely violate. For instance, the service providing myg0t's domain name registry forwarding/cloaking has an agreement with language to the effect that the service cannot be used for activies violate the rights of others. To wit: From the domain registry agreement myg0t.com is registered under: *Quote:* to the best of your knowledge and belief, neither the registration of the domain name for which you have applied for, renewed, managed, or transferred nor the manner in which you intend to use the domain name you applied for, renewed, managed, or transferred, directly or indirectly infringes upon or otherwise violate the legal or equitable rights of any third party; (iii) it is your responsibility to determine whether your domain name registration infringes or violates someone else's rights; (iv) you are not registering, renewing, managing, or transferring the domain name for an unlawful purpose and you will not knowingly use the domain name in violation of any applicable laws or regulations; (The ISP involved is located in Carey, NC if anyone lives around there and wants to pay them a courtesy call visit) WellAllRightyThen If all game hosters/server ops/admins all placed language in the motd.txt to this same effect then the myg0t website could be sent packing. Maybe. And all Steam ID's banned for cheating, if reported back to the server admin, could be tracked back to the IP address and a standard form letter emailed to the cheater's ISP abuse address with the log and details. When the cheater's ISP gets enough abuse complaints then the cheater might have to switch to dialup for internet access. etc. Now if myg0t was constantly harassed by thousands of people complaining to the ISP/Registrars everywhere they went then eventually they would give up. I have used this technique to halt activities of a different sort of bothersome group but that group was not as persistent as myg0ts thus the need for thousands of people and maybe even lawyers (shudder) hassling any unlucky business that finds themselves in the middle between myg0t and the world. (hint: 10 to 20 bucks a year to an ISP/Registrar is not worth all this hassle is it?) Oh, and the unlawful purpose part myg0t wisely uses other less intelligent people's services for hax deployment so they can argue the freedom of speech thing. However, thanks in part to Osama, the way these activities are viewed today are not as friendly towards malcontents who need psychiatric care counseling in addition to a severe need for psychogenic medications. Thus why I think a grassroots effort to shut the cornholios of the game world down can be successfull today whereas it would have been impossible in 1999. Sounds like a lot of work but it would aggregate into less work than all of us admins have contended with since 1998 when myg0t appeared. Hopefully I have not indavertantly offended anyone. If I did I apologize. I see no need for any flame fest on this topic. Note I did not mention a class action lawsuit in the above. However, I would never rule out such potential future happenings should a wiley law firm with deep pockets decide to go for it. I imagine the damages since 1998 would easily reach into the billion dollar range. That equates to a lot of parents of myg0ts losing their retirement plans, houses, cars, etc. The Tears of the Alligator would flow heavily lol... Regards. Adam Dolton wrote: To this, if your server says if you play in this server and you hack in this server your account will be permantly banned from steam and you hack, then you violate terms of agreement to play on the server anyway. This would be the user's own fault and therefore any lawsuit would be bogus and crap anyway. And another thing.. EULA: Steam and the Steam Software may include functionality designed to identify software or hardware processes or functionality that may give a player an unfair competitive advantage when playing multiplayer versions of any Steam Software, other Valve products, or modifications thereof (Cheats). You agree that you will not directly or indirectly disable, circumvent, or otherwise interfere with the operation of software designed to prevent or report the use of Cheats. You acknowledge and agree that either Valve or any online multiplayer host may refuse to allow you to participate in certain online multiplayer games if you use Cheats in connection with Steam or the Steam Software. Further, you acknowledge and agree that an online multiplayer host may report your use of Cheats to Valve, and Valve may communicate your history of use of Cheats to other online multiplayer hosts for Valve products. Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, Cheating or otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
oh dear god..leave the lawyers out of this, it's a friggen game. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of wArgOd Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:08 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. If the gaming community got together on this topic and did some research we might find some interesting language in many service agreements that cheaters routinely violate. For instance, the service providing myg0t's domain name registry forwarding/cloaking has an agreement with language to the effect that the service cannot be used for activies violate the rights of others. To wit: From the domain registry agreement myg0t.com is registered under: *Quote:* to the best of your knowledge and belief, neither the registration of the domain name for which you have applied for, renewed, managed, or transferred nor the manner in which you intend to use the domain name you applied for, renewed, managed, or transferred, directly or indirectly infringes upon or otherwise violate the legal or equitable rights of any third party; (iii) it is your responsibility to determine whether your domain name registration infringes or violates someone else's rights; (iv) you are not registering, renewing, managing, or transferring the domain name for an unlawful purpose and you will not knowingly use the domain name in violation of any applicable laws or regulations; (The ISP involved is located in Carey, NC if anyone lives around there and wants to pay them a courtesy call visit) WellAllRightyThen If all game hosters/server ops/admins all placed language in the motd.txt to this same effect then the myg0t website could be sent packing. Maybe. And all Steam ID's banned for cheating, if reported back to the server admin, could be tracked back to the IP address and a standard form letter emailed to the cheater's ISP abuse address with the log and details. When the cheater's ISP gets enough abuse complaints then the cheater might have to switch to dialup for internet access. etc. Now if myg0t was constantly harassed by thousands of people complaining to the ISP/Registrars everywhere they went then eventually they would give up. I have used this technique to halt activities of a different sort of bothersome group but that group was not as persistent as myg0ts thus the need for thousands of people and maybe even lawyers (shudder) hassling any unlucky business that finds themselves in the middle between myg0t and the world. (hint: 10 to 20 bucks a year to an ISP/Registrar is not worth all this hassle is it?) Oh, and the unlawful purpose part myg0t wisely uses other less intelligent people's services for hax deployment so they can argue the freedom of speech thing. However, thanks in part to Osama, the way these activities are viewed today are not as friendly towards malcontents who need psychiatric care counseling in addition to a severe need for psychogenic medications. Thus why I think a grassroots effort to shut the cornholios of the game world down can be successfull today whereas it would have been impossible in 1999. Sounds like a lot of work but it would aggregate into less work than all of us admins have contended with since 1998 when myg0t appeared. Hopefully I have not indavertantly offended anyone. If I did I apologize. I see no need for any flame fest on this topic. Note I did not mention a class action lawsuit in the above. However, I would never rule out such potential future happenings should a wiley law firm with deep pockets decide to go for it. I imagine the damages since 1998 would easily reach into the billion dollar range. That equates to a lot of parents of myg0ts losing their retirement plans, houses, cars, etc. The Tears of the Alligator would flow heavily lol... Regards. Adam Dolton wrote: To this, if your server says if you play in this server and you hack in this server your account will be permantly banned from steam and you hack, then you violate terms of agreement to play on the server anyway. This would be the user's own fault and therefore any lawsuit would be bogus and crap anyway. And another thing.. EULA: Steam and the Steam Software may include functionality designed to identify software or hardware processes or functionality that may give a player an unfair competitive advantage when playing multiplayer versions of any Steam Software, other Valve products, or modifications thereof (Cheats). You agree that you will not directly or indirectly disable, circumvent, or otherwise interfere with the operation of software designed to prevent or report the use of Cheats. You acknowledge and agree that either Valve or any online multiplayer host may refuse to allow you to participate in certain online multiplayer games if you use Cheats in connection with Steam or the Steam Software. Further, you acknowledge and agree that an online multiplayer host may report your use of Cheats
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
VAC already uses a delayed ban system AFAIK. Dave On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:02:46 +0200, Alexander Kobbevik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I been away from this list for a while and after seeing the last update notice I ran back. Can I make a suggestion for VAC2, please? I know its only fair to warn before inserting a new system that will try to catch cheaters. I also know that it's the right way to do it when you are acctually trying to get more players, and not less. But, here goes. What if you update VAC2... but only record cheats until the next update. Then you ban the collected list and start a new recording after the new VAC2 update. This way you create a fear for cheating... which is one of the most successfull ways of stopping people from trying to cheat... They can't just have someone else check if the cheat gets detected first, then use it until the next VAC2 update. To me this sounds like a really good idea, but it popped up an hour ago while reading the archive.. so maybe I missed some side affect... If people comment on this idea, maybe valve will consider it? -Alexander [GNIZ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Why do you think it is fair to warn of a possible anti-cheat that will work? So that the possible cheating Admin can say gee, valve I'm not a cheater, I was just testing the hack to see how it works! How do you know that it has NOT been tested all along and they have made sure it is going to work this time around? Warning gives them the opportunity to protect themselves and why would you want to protect a cheater? Isn't the objective of VAC to rid the system of cheaters? I mean they've had more than enough chances to stop cheating and look where we're at and the amount of cheats available! Let them get what they deserve maybe then they'll learn a lesson! or make valve richer by buying more CD's I am against any type of warning as it does nothing but let cheat authors realize they need to do some coding! I don't think anyone including Admin need to know which cheat was used either as it just helps the dark side All we need to know is that cheater is caught and banned! Regards Alexander Kobbevik wrote: I been away from this list for a while and after seeing the last update notice I ran back. Can I make a suggestion for VAC2, please? I know its only fair to warn before inserting a new system that will try to catch cheaters. I also know that it's the right way to do it when you are acctually trying to get more players, and not less. But, here goes. What if you update VAC2... but only record cheats until the next update. Then you ban the collected list and start a new recording after the new VAC2 update. This way you create a fear for cheating... which is one of the most successfull ways of stopping people from trying to cheat... They can't just have someone else check if the cheat gets detected first, then use it until the next VAC2 update. To me this sounds like a really good idea, but it popped up an hour ago while reading the archive.. so maybe I missed some side affect... If people comment on this idea, maybe valve will consider it? -Alexander [GNIZ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
There is absolutely no benefit in warning anyone enough of the wrist slapping BS! VAC will always be updated whenever a new cheat is released so long the project doesn't fall apart We trusted CSGuard/HLGuard and almost never questioned when a cheater was caught! It caught a cheater and banned them (unless the Admin was lenient). Admin were happy back then! Regards Alexander Kobbevik wrote: Buffer them for a day then? You don't see the benefit from this? Let's say those magots make a new cheat.. test it.. and it goes through VAC2; They now have a working cheat for thousands to download without the fear, right? Unless VAC2 will be updated without notice? I still stand by my idea, but maybe between updates is too long. -Alex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BoNfiRe Sent: 30. mars 2005 12:46 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. - Original Message - From: Andrew Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Personally I want cheaters banned as soon as they join the server, none of this 'checking' stuff. I will second that no pint in giving these ppl a timaeframe to cheat, and IMO I can't see the difference between the threat of being banned as soon as you join to being banned a week later. The fear is there and giving them a week gives them a chance to anoy people while your waitng for the next update to get them banned. - Original Message - From: Alexander Kobbevik [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:02 PM Subject: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I been away from this list for a while and after seeing the last update notice I ran back. Can I make a suggestion for VAC2, please? I know its only fair to warn before inserting a new system that will try to catch cheaters. I also know that it's the right way to do it when you are acctually trying to get more players, and not less. But, here goes. What if you update VAC2... but only record cheats until the next update. Then you ban the collected list and start a new recording after the new VAC2 update. This way you create a fear for cheating... which is one of the most successfull ways of stopping people from trying to cheat... They can't just have someone else check if the cheat gets detected first, then use it until the next VAC2 update. To me this sounds like a really good idea, but it popped up an hour ago while reading the archive.. so maybe I missed some side affect... If people comment on this idea, maybe valve will consider it? -Alexander [GNIZ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
From the update notice When a cheat infraction is detected, the offender will be permanently banned from playing on secure servers. Regards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another Suggestion, to really get people to fear cheating, after VAC2 having proven itself, make the ban steam wide, not just for the application being played, they should not be able to play anything at all, not even on non-secure servers. Don't even give them a chance to enjoy the game(s) they've tried to ruin for others. Just like with (what used to be) the Catholic church, if you want to repent, it will cost you money, in the form of having to buy another Steam Account. (No flame intended) We'll have to come up with a solution for the pubs though :/ (if clients want to play CS(S), boot to a clean image, where security disallows any additional files in the dir's (where possible). ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
what's your steam id we already got your IP? ;) Regards Fred - Prism128 wrote: if they didnt mean to cheat? no drugs thnx :P no cheating is like #2 or maybe #3. #1 is LAG. or maybe instead or as well as my idea... maybe not permanent ban... maybe 1 month? then next time 6 months, then 1 year, then forever. - Original Message - From: Whisper To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Umm no WTF would you want to give little cheating pricks any leniancy whatsoever? What drugs are you on? If you are not on drugs start thinking about taking some! Cheating is the biggest #1 scourge of online gaming Valve screw up, thats a given, but cheating and the problems they cause are and entirely different order of magintude than any other problem players and server adminstrators face today and in the future. On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 13:56:46 +0100, Fred - Prism128 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well the server would have to have VAC2 turned on (i think)? apart from that i dunno. erm, IMO, cheaters should be given a warning, like a little popup, client-side, that says VAC2 caught ur cheat, do it again and ur banned, and maybe a temporary ban of 1 week... cos some people just do not listen to warnings... this would also help if, say, a friend, relative or whoever put a cheat on ur CSS without you knowing... kinda unfair to instant-perm-ban in my opinion... ;-) - Original Message - From: Pawel Dabrowski To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:32 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Anyone know if server admins will know if someone was banned on their server or not? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik Sent: 30 March 2005 12:03 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I been away from this list for a while and after seeing the last update notice I ran back. Can I make a suggestion for VAC2, please? I know its only fair to warn before inserting a new system that will try to catch cheaters. I also know that it's the right way to do it when you are acctually trying to get more players, and not less. But, here goes. What if you update VAC2... but only record cheats until the next update. Then you ban the collected list and start a new recording after the new VAC2 update. This way you create a fear for cheating... which is one of the most successfull ways of stopping people from trying to cheat... They can't just have someone else check if the cheat gets detected first, then use it until the next VAC2 update. To me this sounds like a really good idea, but it popped up an hour ago while reading the archive.. so maybe I missed some side affect... If people comment on this idea, maybe valve will consider it? -Alexander [GNIZ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
But he will know it when all the little cheaters run to his forums and/or email him! Then he removes cheat and valve cant ban him because they waited and gave him a chance. Regards Alexander Kobbevik wrote: The developer got his account banned anyways, he will just not know it until valve execute their list of banns collected. -Alex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: 30. mars 2005 13:17 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. What if they made a new cheat, tested it, banned. Now not only does no one ever experience that cheat, the developer of it just got his account banned. Number of more hackers on servers for a few days: 0 Whereas if we waited a day: Number of hackers: however many downloaded the cheat in the first place. In the end, if you install a cheat and get banned, good, if you dont install it in the first place, even better. - Original Message - From: Alexander Kobbevik [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:11 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Buffer them for a day then? You don't see the benefit from this? Let's say those magots make a new cheat.. test it.. and it goes through VAC2; They now have a working cheat for thousands to download without the fear, right? Unless VAC2 will be updated without notice? I still stand by my idea, but maybe between updates is too long. -Alex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BoNfiRe Sent: 30. mars 2005 12:46 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. - Original Message - From: Andrew Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Personally I want cheaters banned as soon as they join the server, none of this 'checking' stuff. I will second that no pint in giving these ppl a timaeframe to cheat, and IMO I can't see the difference between the threat of being banned as soon as you join to being banned a week later. The fear is there and giving them a week gives them a chance to anoy people while your waitng for the next update to get them banned. - Original Message - From: Alexander Kobbevik [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:02 PM Subject: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I been away from this list for a while and after seeing the last update notice I ran back. Can I make a suggestion for VAC2, please? I know its only fair to warn before inserting a new system that will try to catch cheaters. I also know that it's the right way to do it when you are acctually trying to get more players, and not less. But, here goes. What if you update VAC2... but only record cheats until the next update. Then you ban the collected list and start a new recording after the new VAC2 update. This way you create a fear for cheating... which is one of the most successfull ways of stopping people from trying to cheat... They can't just have someone else check if the cheat gets detected first, then use it until the next VAC2 update. To me this sounds like a really good idea, but it popped up an hour ago while reading the archive.. so maybe I missed some side affect... If people comment on this idea, maybe valve will consider it? -Alexander [GNIZ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Spoken like a true hack! ;) Regards Fred - Prism128 wrote: well the server would have to have VAC2 turned on (i think)? apart from that i dunno. erm, IMO, cheaters should be given a warning, like a little popup, client-side, that says VAC2 caught ur cheat, do it again and ur banned, and maybe a temporary ban of 1 week... cos some people just do not listen to warnings... this would also help if, say, a friend, relative or whoever put a cheat on ur CSS without you knowing... kinda unfair to instant-perm-ban in my opinion... ;-) - Original Message - From: Pawel Dabrowski To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:32 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Anyone know if server admins will know if someone was banned on their server or not? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik Sent: 30 March 2005 12:03 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I been away from this list for a while and after seeing the last update notice I ran back. Can I make a suggestion for VAC2, please? I know its only fair to warn before inserting a new system that will try to catch cheaters. I also know that it's the right way to do it when you are acctually trying to get more players, and not less. But, here goes. What if you update VAC2... but only record cheats until the next update. Then you ban the collected list and start a new recording after the new VAC2 update. This way you create a fear for cheating... which is one of the most successfull ways of stopping people from trying to cheat... They can't just have someone else check if the cheat gets detected first, then use it until the next VAC2 update. To me this sounds like a really good idea, but it popped up an hour ago while reading the archive.. so maybe I missed some side affect... If people comment on this idea, maybe valve will consider it? -Alexander [GNIZ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] BAN THEM ALL, lol i got owned last nite buy 2 guys with 275 ping and i had 16 ping go figure? -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
I couldn't agree more. :) On Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:48 AM [GMT-06:00], Roc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Spoken like a true hack! ;) Regards Fred - Prism128 wrote: well the server would have to have VAC2 turned on (i think)? apart from that i dunno. erm, IMO, cheaters should be given a warning, like a little popup, client-side, that says VAC2 caught ur cheat, do it again and ur banned, and maybe a temporary ban of 1 week... cos some people just do not listen to warnings... this would also help if, say, a friend, relative or whoever put a cheat on ur CSS without you knowing... kinda unfair to instant-perm-ban in my opinion... ;-) - Original Message - From: Pawel Dabrowski To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:32 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Anyone know if server admins will know if someone was banned on their server or not? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alexander Kobbevik Sent: 30 March 2005 12:03 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. I been away from this list for a while and after seeing the last update notice I ran back. Can I make a suggestion for VAC2, please? I know its only fair to warn before inserting a new system that will try to catch cheaters. I also know that it's the right way to do it when you are acctually trying to get more players, and not less. But, here goes. What if you update VAC2... but only record cheats until the next update. Then you ban the collected list and start a new recording after the new VAC2 update. This way you create a fear for cheating... which is one of the most successfull ways of stopping people from trying to cheat... They can't just have someone else check if the cheat gets detected first, then use it until the next VAC2 update. To me this sounds like a really good idea, but it popped up an hour ago while reading the archive.. so maybe I missed some side affect... If people comment on this idea, maybe valve will consider it? -Alexander [GNIZ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
- Original Message - From: Adam Dolton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. This would be the user's own fault and therefore any lawsuit would be bogus and crap anyway. I'm sure that McDonalds thought it was crap that some old lady was able to successfully sue them for Hot Coffee. Obviously, you wouldn't want to go pouring coffee in your lap, but if we can award an idiot for getting burned by coffee, just think of what a jury will award for buying a game and being locked out of it. Remeber, Only in America. Regards, Bud Ingram ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
McDonald s didn't have the user agree to terms of service when they sold the cup of coffee to the schemer who in reality prolly worked for BK somewhere down the line. So yes, the lawsuit would be bogus Regards Regards Bud Ingram wrote: - Original Message - From: Adam Dolton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. This would be the user's own fault and therefore any lawsuit would be bogus and crap anyway. I'm sure that McDonalds thought it was crap that some old lady was able to successfully sue them for Hot Coffee. Obviously, you wouldn't want to go pouring coffee in your lap, but if we can award an idiot for getting burned by coffee, just think of what a jury will award for buying a game and being locked out of it. Remeber, Only in America. Regards, Bud Ingram ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
David Harrison wrote: Don't even give them a chance to enjoy the game(s) they've tried to ruin for others. I totally agree with this - but, while I'm looking forward to VAC2, my concern is for the SteamID system. I've banned too many people only to see them come back with a different SteamID not three minutes later to have much confidence that banning users via the Steam system is going to have much effect. -- trog ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds I seem to remember Alfred posting this: Nosteam and the like will be considered cheats (and users will be banned for using them). - Alfred ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
We just need STEAM to institute E-STAB THROUGH SCREEN and that will solve most of our problems. :D On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:59:31 -0800, Gerald Hefty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Harrison wrote: Don't even give them a chance to enjoy the game(s) they've tried to ruin for others. I totally agree with this - but, while I'm looking forward to VAC2, my concern is for the SteamID system. I've banned too many people only to see them come back with a different SteamID not three minutes later to have much confidence that banning users via the Steam system is going to have much effect. -- trog ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds I seem to remember Alfred posting this: Nosteam and the like will be considered cheats (and users will be banned for using them). - Alfred ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Without going into the possibilties based on VAC2s structure / performance and how that relates to ID banning (possibly several from the same person, like the guy I know with six steamIDs), what alternative is there? In the world of dynamic IPs, that doesn't quite work out, so I don't know what else to try, and I don't know if Valve can/will implement a hardware ban a la Punkbuster. Gerald Hefty wrote: David Harrison wrote: Don't even give them a chance to enjoy the game(s) they've tried to ruin for others. I totally agree with this - but, while I'm looking forward to VAC2, my concern is for the SteamID system. I've banned too many people only to see them come back with a different SteamID not three minutes later to have much confidence that banning users via the Steam system is going to have much effect. -- trog ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds I seem to remember Alfred posting this: Nosteam and the like will be considered cheats (and users will be banned for using them). - Alfred ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
If only you could ban by MAC address *sigh* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:21 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Without going into the possibilties based on VAC2s structure / performance and how that relates to ID banning (possibly several from the same person, like the guy I know with six steamIDs), what alternative is there? In the world of dynamic IPs, that doesn't quite work out, so I don't know what else to try, and I don't know if Valve can/will implement a hardware ban a la Punkbuster. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Ooh, wouldn't that be sexy. =) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If only you could ban by MAC address *sigh* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:21 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Without going into the possibilties based on VAC2s structure / performance and how that relates to ID banning (possibly several from the same person, like the guy I know with six steamIDs), what alternative is there? In the world of dynamic IPs, that doesn't quite work out, so I don't know what else to try, and I don't know if Valve can/will implement a hardware ban a la Punkbuster. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Or, the steam ID issue could be fixed, and accounts would be banned as they normally were in the old WON system. - Original Message - From: Jonathan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Ooh, wouldn't that be sexy. =) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If only you could ban by MAC address *sigh* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:21 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Without going into the possibilties based on VAC2s structure / performance and how that relates to ID banning (possibly several from the same person, like the guy I know with six steamIDs), what alternative is there? In the world of dynamic IPs, that doesn't quite work out, so I don't know what else to try, and I don't know if Valve can/will implement a hardware ban a la Punkbuster. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
You make it sound like it's difficult to change a MAC address. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If only you could ban by MAC address *sigh* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:21 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Without going into the possibilties based on VAC2s structure / performance and how that relates to ID banning (possibly several from the same person, like the guy I know with six steamIDs), what alternative is there? In the world of dynamic IPs, that doesn't quite work out, so I don't know what else to try, and I don't know if Valve can/will implement a hardware ban a la Punkbuster. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
On 31/03/2005 2:59 p.m., Gerald Hefty wrote: I seem to remember Alfred posting this: Nosteam and the like will be considered cheats (and users will be banned for using them). - Alfred Wasn't the problem that people could get steam IDs without CD keys? Is that what nosteam is? (if so it's a misnomer) Don't see why they don't just fix this hole instead of calling it a cheat... :/ On 31/03/2005 3:27 p.m., [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If only you could ban by MAC address *sigh* Well, you can change your MAC address even easier than you can change your Steam ID, so even if that were possible (and without some app on the client communicating the MAC address to the server - which itself could be hacked - it's not) it wouldn't help. -Simon ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Hmmm Hardware ID's Oh, somebody thought of that already :D On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:44:16 +1200, Simon Garner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 31/03/2005 2:59 p.m., Gerald Hefty wrote: I seem to remember Alfred posting this: Nosteam and the like will be considered cheats (and users will be banned for using them). - Alfred Wasn't the problem that people could get steam IDs without CD keys? Is that what nosteam is? (if so it's a misnomer) Don't see why they don't just fix this hole instead of calling it a cheat... :/ On 31/03/2005 3:27 p.m., [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If only you could ban by MAC address *sigh* Well, you can change your MAC address even easier than you can change your Steam ID, so even if that were possible (and without some app on the client communicating the MAC address to the server - which itself could be hacked - it's not) it wouldn't help. -Simon ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Most will have to change their modem mac adress, which is (slightly?) more difficult then your own computers nick, I think. ;) (I don't know much about that (yet) Micha Vermeer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lethy Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:38 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. You make it sound like it's difficult to change a MAC address. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If only you could ban by MAC address *sigh* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:21 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Without going into the possibilties based on VAC2s structure / performance and how that relates to ID banning (possibly several from the same person, like the guy I know with six steamIDs), what alternative is there? In the world of dynamic IPs, that doesn't quite work out, so I don't know what else to try, and I don't know if Valve can/will implement a hardware ban a la Punkbuster. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Bud Ingram wrote: - Original Message - From: Adam Dolton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. This would be the user's own fault and therefore any lawsuit would be bogus and crap anyway. I'm sure that McDonalds thought it was crap that some old lady was able to successfully sue them for Hot Coffee. Obviously, you wouldn't want to go pouring coffee in your lap, but if we can award an idiot for getting burned by coffee, just think of what a jury will award for buying a game and being locked out of it. Remeber, Only in America. Regards, Bud Ingram ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds Obviously you didnt know that this lawsuit was overturned in appeal and the woman only managed to get her medical bills covered by the mcdonalds companies and thats it. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.6 - Release Date: 3/30/2005 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Once again the beauties of a Google search or any internet search engine for that matter would reveal a wealth of information on the subject. Don't be so lazy peeps. If you don't know about something go learn. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Micha Vermeer Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:28 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Most will have to change their modem mac adress, which is (slightly?) more difficult then your own computers nick, I think. ;) (I don't know much about that (yet) Micha Vermeer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lethy Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:38 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. You make it sound like it's difficult to change a MAC address. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If only you could ban by MAC address *sigh* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:21 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2. Without going into the possibilties based on VAC2s structure / performance and how that relates to ID banning (possibly several from the same person, like the guy I know with six steamIDs), what alternative is there? In the world of dynamic IPs, that doesn't quite work out, so I don't know what else to try, and I don't know if Valve can/will implement a hardware ban a la Punkbuster. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Micha Vermeer wrote: Most will have to change their modem mac adress, which is (slightly?) more difficult then your own computers nick, I think. ;) It doesn't work that way. The MAC address that you would detect on your server would be from the last router before hitting your box. You don't have any way of knowing their MAC. -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
m0gely wrote: Micha Vermeer wrote: Most will have to change their modem mac adress, which is (slightly?) more difficult then your own computers nick, I think. ;) It doesn't work that way. The MAC address that you would detect on your server would be from the last router before hitting your box. You don't have any way of knowing their MAC. -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike unless, perhaps, your software the user installed has the simple function to return the information on all installed NICs and this information is reported back to the system and the system refuses to allow your addressing information back on. so the user buys a new nic, swaps out the cable modem, uses one of the utilities to spoof another mac address before running hax, etc. how about the sid of the drive/pc? oh no... won't work... plenty of freware to change these too. so let them buy a new steam account everytime they get busted. it helps pay for the VAC team bills. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Don't even give them a chance to enjoy the game(s) they've tried to ruin for others. I totally agree with this - but, while I'm looking forward to VAC2, my concern is for the SteamID system. I've banned too many people only to see them come back with a different SteamID not three minutes later to have much confidence that banning users via the Steam system is going to have much effect. -- trog ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
On 31/03/2005 11:26 a.m., David Harrison wrote: I totally agree with this - but, while I'm looking forward to VAC2, my concern is for the SteamID system. I've banned too many people only to see them come back with a different SteamID not three minutes later to have much confidence that banning users via the Steam system is going to have much effect. -- trog Yeah, it seems to me that at what point VAC bans is a moot point as long as people can create as many Steam IDs as they want and circumvent any ban that is applied. -Simon ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion for VAC2.
Simon Garner wrote: Yeah, it seems to me that at what point VAC bans is a moot point as long as people can create as many Steam IDs as they want and circumvent any ban that is applied. Well, if it prevented them from cheating though then it's still good for us. Not good for Valve yet, but good for us. :) -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
