Re: [Hornlist] Horn Related!! Please read me!!

[David Goldberg]

How to spot a leaky valve:

1) Buy a bag of small, cheap balloons.  Remove all of your valve slides
and attach a balloon to each of the ends of the slides.  Tie down the
tuning slides.  Attach a large diameter flexible plastic tube to an air
compressor.  Stick the tube up the bell until it is air-tight.  Plug the
opening of the leadpipe - you can use your thumb.  Start the compressor.
See which balloons enlarge.

2) Remove all the valve slides, tie down the remaining slides.  Attach a
hose tightly to a water faucet and to the leadpipe.  Get your right hand
in position to play gestopft.  Turn the water on.  See which slides drip.

I thought of another interesting method, but I won't describe it because
if you screw up, your horn will explode.


{  David Goldberg:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
 { Ann Arbor Michigan }


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Re: [Hornlist] Horn Related!! Please read me!!

[Jerryold99]

Hi Carl,

The "hiss-pop" test is an easy way to get a good
idea of the rotor/casing air seal.  One way to do it 
is as follows:
1.  Pull the 1st rotor F slide completely out.
2.  Push it back in fast and listen at the receiver for 
   a hiss.  The hiss should last 3-5 seconds.
3.  While you are listening to the hiss, press the 1st
   valve lever.  There should be a healthy "pop" even
   after 3-5 seconds.  
4.  The longer the hiss and the stronger the pop the
   tighter the air seal in that rotor.
5.  Repeat the process on all three rotors.
6.  To test the change rotor, I play the horn and then I load 
   the rotor with medium to heavy oil and play it again.
   There should be no noticeable change in playing 
   characteristics.  I pay particular attention to the hi range.
   
Another good test for the rotors is to play the horn and then load
ALL rotors with medium to heavy oil and play again as in
item 6 above.  There should be no change in playing 
characteristics.  The oil can be flushed out of the horn with
a thin valve oil or by running hot water through the valve 
section.  (I do the hot water thing annually on Paxman triple 
horn rotors and have had NO problems with them.)  If you are 
serious about the horn, this will give you a good idea as to the
potential of the horn.

Bottom line - the "hiss-pop" test is fast, easy and fairly 
accurate.  One thing I look for is sluggish rotors which
may mean the seller has already loaded the horn with oil
to mask leaky rotors.

BTW, playing tests should be done after the horn has been
inspected for air leaks in solder joints, cracks, etc. and the
horn has been thoroughly cleaned and snaked (especially
the leadpipe) and inspected for obstructions like dead things,
pencils, etc.  Ask your local repair person about their horror
stories.

I am not a repair person but the above is pretty standard stuff
and comes from years of personal experience as well as 
from discussions with experts in the field

Hope this helps.

Regards,Jerry in Kansas City 
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Re: [Hornlist] Horn Related!! Please read me!!

[James Enterline]

There are various suggested objective tests for really leaky valves, but 
the best test is somewhat subjective.  The acoustic effect of leaky valves 
is on the "slotting" and resistance of the horn.  Leaky valves widen the 
slot of a note and make it easier to lip it in or out of tune.  They also 
increase the effective resistance.  However, Conn is noted for low 
resistance and narrow slots.  My Alexander is noted for higher resistance 
and perhaps wider slots.  I don't know if comparing how your Paxman plays 
with how his Conn plays will tell you much.  Best to get a Conn player to 
try it.

Jim.

At 11:25 PM 02/27/03 -0600, you wrote:
Hello all,

Been a while since I've posted anything, mostly because I
haven't had anything meaningful to contribute, but partially because
I've been too busy clicking my 'delete' button to get rid of all these
extra NHR messages.   Whew!   We can really go crazy with our blustering
opinions, can't we?   Anyway, I have a question.  I have heard much talk
in the past about 'leaky' valves and am at a loss to remember the
correct procedure for determining whether the valves on a horn are tight
or leaky.  Could someone please give me the proper way to determine
this?  I play a Paxman model 20 and have no need for another horn, but a
friend is thinking of purchasing an older Conn 8D and the valves are
suspect.  It plays ok, but it 'feels' funny to me, and I want to be sure
not to give inadequate advice, so I could use a little training in
leaky-valve-detection.   Thanks in advance,
Carl in Abilene, TX
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[Hornlist] Nitpicking

[HornCabbage]

William V wrote

Besides, anyone who would rather nitpick my grammar 
than argue a valid/invalid point has no argument.

**
Darn, you just gave away the secret of most of my
contributions to the hornlist.

Gotta go,
Cabbage
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Re: [Hornlist] Horn Related!! Please read me!!

[Jjhornman]

Take out whatever slide individually we'll say third slide, blow into the f 
side of horn witht he 3rd valve down and determine which side the air blows 
out of.  Once determined put your finger on  that side of the tubing and blow 
into the horn with the third valve down.  If there is any leaky noises coming 
from the third valve or if the compression is not good.i.e. you can 
continue to blow air through with little resistance, you'll probably have a 
problem with the valves.  do this for all individual valves and alternate 
between slides.

Hope this was helpful.  Another test you can do is put your finger on the 
leadpipe (completely closed off) and pull out one of the slides if it doesn't 
pop you've got a problem,

My two cents,

Hoss
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[Hornlist] Horn Related!! Please read me!!

[paxmanhorn]

Hello all, 
 
Been a while since I've posted anything, mostly because I
haven't had anything meaningful to contribute, but partially because
I've been too busy clicking my 'delete' button to get rid of all these
extra NHR messages.   Whew!   We can really go crazy with our blustering
opinions, can't we?   Anyway, I have a question.  I have heard much talk
in the past about 'leaky' valves and am at a loss to remember the
correct procedure for determining whether the valves on a horn are tight
or leaky.  Could someone please give me the proper way to determine
this?  I play a Paxman model 20 and have no need for another horn, but a
friend is thinking of purchasing an older Conn 8D and the valves are
suspect.  It plays ok, but it 'feels' funny to me, and I want to be sure
not to give inadequate advice, so I could use a little training in
leaky-valve-detection.   Thanks in advance,
 
Carl in Abilene, TX
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Re: [Hornlist] Who were the horns?

[Klaus Bjerre]

Through the run of this thread, I have been able to put a name on the player
of my visual memory, an elegant, slim, and quite tall black male sitting to
the outer left of the 5 (?) horn row as seen from the public, to the outer
right from the player's own perspective. Whether this player, Mr. Ashby, had
his daily job in the low range or not: he played that 4th horn solo, so that
I never will forget that performance. I never doubted, why Bernie had chosen
exactly that player.

During this thread I have revealed the sources for my postings. I realise my
misinterpretation of the  Osmun page on Phil Myers mouthpiece. Again I must
express my being sorry for the confusion that I stirred up. My memory of
aural and visual impressions is very good, whether my ability to put the
right words on these impressions is more of a fluctuating entity. Sorry for
have been down to the Jurassic Park level within the hours of having eaten a
delicious can of tuna meat. Good for my heart, bad for my brain.

Klaus

on 28.02.03 5:33, phirsch at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> Klaus,
> 
> Now I AM confused.
> 
> In your previous message, you seemed to be mixing up Bob Watt of the LA
> Philharmonic with Jerry Ashby of the NYPO. Watt has roots at NE
> Conservatory in the 60s, Ashby went to Music & Art, then Juilliard her in
> NYC in the 70s. Watt never, to my knowledge, had anything to do with the NY
> scene. Now you bring up Ross Taylor, who died (by his own hand, a la Mark
> Fischer, I gather) many years previous to the Beethoven performance that
> you refer to. I knew his son Paul many years back and I can speak fairly
> authoritatively that Ross had nothing to do with Jerry Ashby or the
> Beethoven performance in question.
> 
> Since I have not seen the video in question, it is hard for me to comment,
> but I doubt that Ashby would have been playing the solo from the fourth
> chair (he is a "corno primo", not "secondo"). Where was the player seated
> relative to the rest of the section?
> 
> I am sure that I am serving to preserve disorder by this posting. Maybe
> someone else can clarify.
> 
> - Peter Hirsch
> 
> 
> 
>  <
><
>  one of the Christmas days (1st or 2nd) of 1989 was the player to be  at the far right on the picture at the top of
> <
>  <
>  the way. I do not remember the rest of the horn section. Only I am  sure, that it was German.
> 

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Re: [Hornlist] Who were the horns?

[phirsch]

Klaus,

Now I AM confused.

In your previous message, you seemed to be mixing up Bob Watt of the LA
Philharmonic with Jerry Ashby of the NYPO. Watt has roots at NE
Conservatory in the 60s, Ashby went to Music & Art, then Juilliard her in
NYC in the 70s. Watt never, to my knowledge, had anything to do with the NY
scene. Now you bring up Ross Taylor, who died (by his own hand, a la Mark
Fischer, I gather) many years previous to the Beethoven performance that
you refer to. I knew his son Paul many years back and I can speak fairly
authoritatively that Ross had nothing to do with Jerry Ashby or the
Beethoven performance in question.

Since I have not seen the video in question, it is hard for me to comment,
but I doubt that Ashby would have been playing the solo from the fourth
chair (he is a "corno primo", not "secondo"). Where was the player seated
relative to the rest of the section?

I am sure that I am serving to preserve disorder by this posting. Maybe
someone else can clarify.

- Peter Hirsch



http://www.osmun.com/reference/Myers-Schmid/Meyers1.html
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[Hornlist] Beethoven, Bernstein, Ashby

[John Mason]

>Could it possibly have been Jerome Ashby, who is 
>currently Assoc Principal with the NYPO?

Yes.  Without a doubt.  I saw the concert, when it was
televised on PBS, and spoke to Ashby about the
performance at the IHS in Athens.  He played
magnificently.

--John


=
J. Mason, Charlottesville, Virginia
New!  Friday Evenings at Eastside Raceway, Photos:
http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/cgi-bin/gallery-x/index.html

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Re: [Hornlist] Who were the horns?

[Klaus Bjerre]

Comparing the most recent replies with

http://www.newyorkphilharmonic.org/music/orchestra/index.cfm?page=profile&pe
rsonNum=40

I am convinced, that the soloist in question was Mr. Jerome Ashby.

Sorry for the fuss I have introduced on this thread. By now you would know
why.

Klaus

on 28.02.03 4:06, Klaus Bjerre at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Sorry for my cryptic posting. I am a multiallergic having very bad times
> through the winter. Often having symptoms close to aphasia. However I have a
> few, quite slow, techniques to circumvent the problems:
> 
> The player of the 4th horn solo of the Bernstein performance of the B9 on
> one of the Christmas days (1st or 2nd) of 1989 was the player to be seen at
> the far right on the picture at the top of
> 
> http://www.osmun.com/reference/Myers-Schmid/Meyers1.html
> 
> I read the page as if his name is Ross Taylor. He played the 4th part all
> the way. I do not remember the rest of the horn section. Only I am fairly
> sure, that it was German.
> 
> A few day later the same work, B9, was transmitted from the Gewandhaus of
> Leipzig. There the 4th horn solo was played by the soloist of the section.
> 
> The Gewandhaus Orchestra is great, but it could not match the Bernstein
> magic. Bernie even got away with changing the text. Freude was turned into
> Freiheit for this one historic performance in the then quite newly renovated
> East-Berlin concert hall, that formerly had been an opera house.
> 
> The doubled woodwinds shuffled seats between the 2nd and 3rd movements, but
> as I remember it, the 5 horns kept their seats all the way through.
> 
> Klaus 
> 
> 
> on 28.02.03 2:56, Klaus Bjerre at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>> on 28.02.03 2:08, Edwin Glick at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 
>>> I just recently had the opportunity to listen to Bernstein's recording of
>>> the
>>> Beethoven 9th, performed to celebrate the fall of the Berlin wall. According
>>> to the program notes, it was performed by the Bavarian Radio Symphony
>>> Orchestra and members of the Dresden Staatskapelle, Orchestra of the Kirov
>>> Theater,  London Symphony Orchestra, New York Philharmonic, and the
>>> Orchestre
>>> de Paris.
>>> 
>>> Does anyone know who the horns were? Were they all from the Bavarian Radio
>>> Orchestra? I'm curious especially about the 4th horn solo in the 3rd
>>> movement.
>>> (It was played beautifully.) Was it played by the 4th horn, the 1st horn, or
>>> a
>>> combination of the two?
>>> 
>>> Ed Glick
>>> 
>> 
>> I saw that direct TV transmission here in my own country, which is in the
>> same time zone a Berlin.
>> 
>> The 4th horn solo was done by a marvellous black player, who I think was 4th
>> horn of the NYPO back then, but who went on as solo horn in some west coast
>> orchestra (LA-SF?). I am extremely bad in remembering names, but I am strong
>> in remembering faces. So I hope no offences will be taken.
>> 
>> I actually think, that this player was the one, who played the mouthpiece,
>> that was the model for the one constructed for the current solo horn of the
>> NYPO. I read about that in a page of the Custom Music site a few years back.
>> Again I am sad about missing the name.

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Re: [Hornlist] Who were the horns?

[Klaus Bjerre]

Sorry for my cryptic posting. I am a multiallergic having very bad times
through the winter. Often having symptoms close to aphasia. However I have a
few, quite slow, techniques to circumvent the problems:

The player of the 4th horn solo of the Bernstein performance of the B9 on
one of the Christmas days (1st or 2nd) of 1989 was the player to be seen at
the far right on the picture at the top of

http://www.osmun.com/reference/Myers-Schmid/Meyers1.html

I read the page as if his name is Ross Taylor. He played the 4th part all
the way. I do not remember the rest of the horn section. Only I am fairly
sure, that it was German.

A few day later the same work, B9, was transmitted from the Gewandhaus of
Leipzig. There the 4th horn solo was played by the soloist of the section.

The Gewandhaus Orchestra is great, but it could not match the Bernstein
magic. Bernie even got away with changing the text. Freude was turned into
Freiheit for this one historic performance in the then quite newly renovated
East-Berlin concert hall, that formerly had been an opera house.

The doubled woodwinds shuffled seats between the 2nd and 3rd movements, but
as I remember it, the 5 horns kept their seats all the way through.

Klaus 


on 28.02.03 2:56, Klaus Bjerre at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> on 28.02.03 2:08, Edwin Glick at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>> I just recently had the opportunity to listen to Bernstein's recording of the
>> Beethoven 9th, performed to celebrate the fall of the Berlin wall. According
>> to the program notes, it was performed by the Bavarian Radio Symphony
>> Orchestra and members of the Dresden Staatskapelle, Orchestra of the Kirov
>> Theater,  London Symphony Orchestra, New York Philharmonic, and the Orchestre
>> de Paris.
>> 
>> Does anyone know who the horns were? Were they all from the Bavarian Radio
>> Orchestra? I'm curious especially about the 4th horn solo in the 3rd
>> movement.
>> (It was played beautifully.) Was it played by the 4th horn, the 1st horn, or
>> a
>> combination of the two?
>> 
>> Ed Glick
>> 
> 
> I saw that direct TV transmission here in my own country, which is in the
> same time zone a Berlin.
> 
> The 4th horn solo was done by a marvellous black player, who I think was 4th
> horn of the NYPO back then, but who went on as solo horn in some west coast
> orchestra (LA-SF?). I am extremely bad in remembering names, but I am strong
> in remembering faces. So I hope no offences will be taken.
> 
> I actually think, that this player was the one, who played the mouthpiece,
> that was the model for the one constructed for the current solo horn of the
> NYPO. I read about that in a page of the Custom Music site a few years back.
> Again I am sad about missing the name.
> 

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Re: [Hornlist] Who were the horns?

[BrassArtsUnlim]

>> The 4th horn solo was done by a marvellous black player, who I think was 
4th
horn of the NYPO back then, but who went on as solo horn in some west coast
orchestra (LA-SF?). I am extremely bad in remembering names, but I am strong
in remembering faces. So I hope no offences will be taken.  <<

Klaus,

Could it possibly have been Jerome Ashby, who is currently Assoc Principal 
with the NYPO?

Dave Weiner
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Re: [Hornlist] Who were the horns?

[Edwin Glick]

According to one of the replies I got, the 4th horn solo was played by Jerome Ashby 
who is, I believe, currently the associate principal of the New York Philharmonic.
 
Ed

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/03 07:56PM >>>
on 28.02.03 2:08, Edwin Glick at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I just recently had the opportunity to listen to Bernstein's recording of the
> Beethoven 9th, performed to celebrate the fall of the Berlin wall. According
> to the program notes, it was performed by the Bavarian Radio Symphony
> Orchestra and members of the Dresden Staatskapelle, Orchestra of the Kirov
> Theater,  London Symphony Orchestra, New York Philharmonic, and the Orchestre
> de Paris.
> 
> Does anyone know who the horns were? Were they all from the Bavarian Radio
> Orchestra? I'm curious especially about the 4th horn solo in the 3rd movement.
> (It was played beautifully.) Was it played by the 4th horn, the 1st horn, or a
> combination of the two?
> 
> Ed Glick
> 

I saw that direct TV transmission here in my own country, which is in the
same time zone a Berlin.

The 4th horn solo was done by a marvellous black player, who I think was 4th
horn of the NYPO back then, but who went on as solo horn in some west coast
orchestra (LA-SF?). I am extremely bad in remembering names, but I am strong
in remembering faces. So I hope no offences will be taken.

I actually think, that this player was the one, who played the mouthpiece,
that was the model for the one constructed for the current solo horn of the
NYPO. I read about that in a page of the Custom Music site a few years back.
Again I am sad about missing the name.

Klaus

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Re: [Hornlist] Who were the horns?

[Klaus Bjerre]

on 28.02.03 2:08, Edwin Glick at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I just recently had the opportunity to listen to Bernstein's recording of the
> Beethoven 9th, performed to celebrate the fall of the Berlin wall. According
> to the program notes, it was performed by the Bavarian Radio Symphony
> Orchestra and members of the Dresden Staatskapelle, Orchestra of the Kirov
> Theater,  London Symphony Orchestra, New York Philharmonic, and the Orchestre
> de Paris.
> 
> Does anyone know who the horns were? Were they all from the Bavarian Radio
> Orchestra? I'm curious especially about the 4th horn solo in the 3rd movement.
> (It was played beautifully.) Was it played by the 4th horn, the 1st horn, or a
> combination of the two?
> 
> Ed Glick
> 

I saw that direct TV transmission here in my own country, which is in the
same time zone a Berlin.

The 4th horn solo was done by a marvellous black player, who I think was 4th
horn of the NYPO back then, but who went on as solo horn in some west coast
orchestra (LA-SF?). I am extremely bad in remembering names, but I am strong
in remembering faces. So I hope no offences will be taken.

I actually think, that this player was the one, who played the mouthpiece,
that was the model for the one constructed for the current solo horn of the
NYPO. I read about that in a page of the Custom Music site a few years back.
Again I am sad about missing the name.

Klaus

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Re: [Hornlist] Who were the horns?

[Jerryold99]

Hi all,

As long as we are on the subject ... I saw 
"Gods and Generals" last night.  Does anyone
know who did the wonderful horn work?  

Regards,   Jerry in Kansas City
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[Hornlist] Who were the horns?

[Edwin Glick]

I just recently had the opportunity to listen to Bernstein's recording of the 
Beethoven 9th, performed to celebrate the fall of the Berlin wall. According to the 
program notes, it was performed by the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra and members 
of the Dresden Staatskapelle, Orchestra of the Kirov Theater,  London Symphony 
Orchestra, New York Philharmonic, and the Orchestre de Paris.
 
Does anyone know who the horns were? Were they all from the Bavarian Radio Orchestra? 
I'm curious especially about the 4th horn solo in the 3rd movement. (It was played 
beautifully.) Was it played by the 4th horn, the 1st horn, or a combination of the 
two? 
 
Ed Glick

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RE: [Hornlist] Re: in the news (NHR) ...(Charles Renfro)

[Baucom, Fred]

Of course Bush is no Hitler and never will be.  I don't believe that Prof
Pizka was saying that Bush is like Hitler, only that he sometimes says
things that are reminiscent of the aggressor mind-set of that time, which,
even without the Hitler comparison, is disquieting.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Hornlist] Re: in the news (NHR) ...(Charles Renfro)


Hans Pizka writes:  " "Until now others have written history. Now we are
going 
to write history !" The president of the USA last night. 
Oh boy, I think you could find such sentences in recordings from the
time between 1933-1945."

Hans, 

It seems that you may be trying to instigate another anti-American, 
NHR "discussion"!!!  You are very good at that!!!  If you spend a
significant 
amount of time studying, comparing, and contrasting totalitarian regimes,
you 
must conclude that the Bush administration has absolutely nothing in common 
with Hitler, of any other fascist, mass-movement of the 1930's and 40's.

Please, give us a break!!

Gesundheit,
Charles Renfro
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[Hornlist] Re: in the news (NHR) ...(Charles Renfro)

[rettro]

Hans Pizka writes:  " "Until now others have written history. Now we are going 
to write history !" The president of the USA last night. 
Oh boy, I think you could find such sentences in recordings from the
time between 1933-1945."

Hans, 

It seems that you may be trying to instigate another anti-American, 
NHR "discussion"!!!  You are very good at that!!!  If you spend a significant 
amount of time studying, comparing, and contrasting totalitarian regimes, you 
must conclude that the Bush administration has absolutely nothing in common 
with Hitler, of any other fascist, mass-movement of the 1930's and 40's.

Please, give us a break!!

Gesundheit,
Charles Renfro
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[Hornlist] NHR: Silent long enough

[Dan McCartney]

Nobody on this list seems to be articulating the fact that things can be 
viewed differently than Loren, Hans, etc..  In the 1930's all of western 
Europe outside of the German speaking countries deliberately closed 
their eyes to the fact that a semi-insane dictator was building up an 
arsenal of weaponry on the sly.  While Churchill tried to warn the 
world, the rest of the world cried, "peace, peace," and called Churchill 
(who unfortunately had little influence at the time) a warmonger.  After 
WW2, for a long time people realized that the way one maintains maximal 
peace is by being ready and willing to go to war when necessary.  Had 
Churchill been heeded and Hitler been dealt with in 1935, a lot of 
misery could have been avoided.
I think it's interesting that those countries who had to live under 
dictatorial militaristic regimes in the recent past are the ones now 
most supportive of Bush.  Those who compare Bush to Hitler or some other 
dictator either are driven by political sour grapes or else know very 
little about Hitler, or dictatorial regimes generally.  Even our worst 
presidents (Nixon?) don't come close to the terror of Hitler or Idi Amin 
or Mugabe or Saddam Hussein.  As for Blair, I would guess that he is 
risking his political future because he doesn't want to be remembered as 
the Neville Chamberlain of the 21st century.
That said, I must admit that the reasons for attacking Iraq are obscure. 
But the fact that the level-headed Colin Powell is somehow convinced 
has me persuaded that they (Powell, Bush, Blair, Straw, Rice, etc.) know 
things that simply cannot be divulged because to do so would compromise 
sources and betray trusts.  And did any of you see the interview with 
the Iraqi nuclear scientist who has been in contact with the Iraqi 
underground movement in Iraq?  Do we simply ignore what's going on until 
a devastating biological or chemical or radioactive Blitzkrieg is 
unleased against someone?



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[Hornlist]

[larryfromlososos]

Poor Hanshe continues to suck it up.  He doesn't have any more feet
to stick in his mouth.  ENOUGH ALREADY!


Laurent
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AW: [Hornlist] NHR: Hans has gone too far : comparing Bush toHitlerand Nazi

[Hans Pizka]

Exactly, thanks Erin, for understanding my objectively made statement.
It was not an opinion of my own. I just wanted to remind the list
members to start thinking by themselves & not believing the Mass Media
garbage. Be assured, that we have got similar problems in Europe.

Greetings from Munich



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im
Auftrag von [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. Februar 2003 21:03
An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Betreff: Re: [Hornlist] NHR: Hans has gone too far : comparing Bush to
Hitlerand Nazi

Hans:

Your apparent quote of President Bush, followed by a comparative
reference to 

Nazi Germany is truly revolting ! And truly inappropriate for this list.

   How is it revolting to state a fact?  By pointing out the quite 
similar statements made by Bush and Hitler, Prof. Pizka is simply
reminding 
all of us that we must either learn from the past or be doomed to repeat
it.  
I think there is a fine distinction to be made between patriotism, love
of 
one's fatherland, and politicized aggression which uses the guise of 
patriotism to pursue its own agenda.  Just a thought, IMHO.

Erin Chernak
University of Oklahoma
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[Hornlist] sorry, but necessary

[Hans Pizka]

Dear friends, having travelled in the Near East, South East Asia & Far
East since nearly thirty years, and living with a community of 5 mill.
Muslims here in Germany. I might express the following:

There are many societies in the world, which are different to the
Israelite-Christian World, which is the minority anyway. The Chinese
Society has a strong hierarchic structure & kept it even under the
communist rule, so it is in North Korea. Japanese democracy seems to
follow the western type of democracy, but is still very, very different
& rigid. Buddhist society is different again & so is the muslim society.
Which has resulted in corrupt monarchies sometimes or in so called God´s
Clerical Rule. 

Our style of ruling a country is very different to their way, even they
also have parliaments & civilian rule, but even with a much bigger
influence of the military, which is engaged in a multitude of
enterprises, unlike our military.

This type of presidial-democracy, where the president is the strongest
political factor (besides business), is wide spread, but less popular in
the "Christian countries", except USA & France & Russia.

Some countries converted this presidial-democracy into a dictatorship,
well, a form of government, which is really not the best. Some
dictatorships end up in mere terror. 

That´s the one thing. We had great virtues in our governments. Nobody
thought about corruption be possible. But it was & is possible within
our Christian-democratic educated western world, but we pointed to other
oriental countries where they elevated corruption to some kind of sports
or art.

Another difference:
If you make a deal with an Arab, you should understand that a signature
on a piece of paper means absolutely nothing, but a promise means very
much. A broken promise means losing face. You would not be a business
partner any more. Money changes hands in open envelopes & nobody counts
the contents. This also happen in Thailand, Japan, South Korea. I never
signed any contract there.

Again a difference:
If you sit in a bar in Tokyo, you might forget your wallet there. It
will be there next day, if not another foreign tourist had taken it
away. A Japanese would never take it away.

If you get drunk in Japan, you will be treated like a baby, with all
care, so you cannot hurt yourself or others.

In an Arab country it might happen, that you get shot if you misbehave
in a mosque or other holy place or if you curse. You might not escape
unhurt if you abuse a Buddha image in a temple in Thailand.

There is only a way to get along with all these many people in the
world:
Respect each other, give your love each other, treate equally each
other.

Prejudice &  hate & resulting war will bring the end of civilization.
Repeating prejudicated thumb slogans may be valid in Mickey Mouse
Stories but not in a serious world. And it seems that certain persons
need a certain other person to unload all the garbage from ones own
inability to rule seriously. May I remind you to "Dwarf throwing !" etc.

Sorry, sorry friends, but we here in Europe, we are in great sorrow
about OUR future in Humanity, as we are near to the muslim world and
have large muslim communities everywhere in Europe, most of them easy
victims to fundamentalism because of their rather low educational level.

Your president seems to forget this fact as do his advisors. Your
country is far off the affairs. 

We have a good sentence for that: "Full pants, easy stunk !" 


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Re: [Hornlist] Holton 105

[Pete Hanson]

Wouldn't you know. Just when I'm looking for the proceedure to get off this
list, someone asks a horn related question of interest to me.
- Original Message -
From: "Loren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'The Horn List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 1:24 PM
Subject: [Hornlist] Holton 105


> Can someone in the know explain what changes were made to the Holton 104
> when it metamorphed into the 105?
>
> Loren Mayhew
> \@()
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (520) 403-6897
>
>
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Re: [Hornlist] Yamaha 861 horns

[Klaus Bjerre]

on 27.02.03 22:19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


> I can't give you info about playing characteristics
> of the 861(which I think is your main concern),
> however, I can give you some other info which
> you may not have.
> 
> YHR-861
> Standard yellow brass Geyer wrap
> Made from 1982-1992
> Bore .469
> Medium bell throat
> Current equivalent - YHR-667V (There is some
> conflicting data published by Yamaha.  The 861 is
> described as having a medium bell and the 667V
> a medium-large bell so there may have been some
> design changes to the 667V and it may not be the
> same horn renumbered.  Johnny Woody ... if you are
> lurking .. can you shed some light on this?)
> 


Scans from the Yamaha catalogue:

125 dpi in .jpg format, 653 KB:

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/yorkmasterpublicphotosxi/vwp?.dir=/Yama
ha+custom+horns+circa+1988+catalogue&.dnm=Pg.+6+YHR-861+(Geyer+wrap).jpg&.sr
c=gr&.view=t&.hires=t

300 dpi in .pdf format, 2370 KB

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMasterPublicPhotosXI/files/Yamaha%20custom
%20horns%20circa%201988/Pg.%206%20YHR-861%20%28Geyer%20wrap%29.pdf


Klaus

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RE: [Hornlist] NHR: Hans has gone too far : comparing Bush toHitlerand Nazi

[Loren]

   While it is abhorrent to many Americans, as I assume it is to many
Germans as well, to associate or compare anything with the word Nazi, it
cause one to reflect a little when you know that Hitler, like Bush, was
also "elected" under suspicious circumstances and thereafter assumed and
enforced a mandate for his agenda.
   This may well be NHR, but, quite honestly, I am very concerned where
all this warring response to terrorism will lead, and in the end its
aftermath might very well be horn related.
   You don't fix a problem with the same or similar action that caused
the problem; fighting terrorism (which is a kind of war) with war only
compounds war. I am firmly convinced that you don't gain peace through
war; you do it by creating and promoting an environment where people
feel the joy of fulfillment and fairness and thus the "need" for
violence to achieve betterment fades. The US in concert with many other
countries has the resources and the means to accomplish this for the
world; all we need is the will. This is love in action and it is far
more powerful and effective for good than any war action.
   As MA says, Love is the answer. What will it take for us with the
means to put love into action worldwide and give it a fair trial? There
is a good reason why Jesus attempted to cancel the Mosaic law of "an eye
for an eye and a tooth for a tooth"; the old law was not working; it
only led to more and more violence. So he requested that we replace it
with "love your neighbor as yourself" and "love your enemies." In other
words, love the hell out of yourself, your neighbors and your enemies,
not just intellectually, but practically.
   
Lovingly,

Loren Mayhew
\@()
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(520) 403-6897


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[Hornlist] A weird thing happened to me two days ago...

[Scheimy]

I was practicing Fanfare for the Common Man today, and I got a really weird 
sensation when hitting the high Bb's.  I nearly blacked out.  Later during 
the day (actually, it was in German class) I felt like there was a different 
pulse in the left side of my neck and something has felt strained since 
then...

Back to the blacking out, though.  I called my teacher to ask what to do 
about it because this has never happened to me before.  He said that I have 
to stop pocketing air in my throat while trying to force the notes out up 
top, but I don't know how to do this because that's how I'm used to hitting 
the upper range.  Any suggestions?  He also said that it's time for me to 
move on to a mouthpiece with a larger inner diameter.  I already am using a 
Schilke 31b.  He want's me to go to a mouthpiece that has close to a 19 mm 
inner diameter because he says that combined with my embouchure and what he 
says are the thickest lips out of any student he has, the 31b does me no 
good.  Any suggestions on mouthpieces?  I really want to not have this happen 
again, so I hope I get help.  Thanks in advance.

Mike Scheimer, Pittsburgh
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RE: [Hornlist] Yamaha 861 horns

[Baucom, Fred]

Hoss,

If Johnny is not lurking, I have a phone number for him if you want to
contact me off-list.  He is "the man" with regard to Yamaha's better
horns...

Fred 



Jerry wrote: 

..snip...  

"Johnny Woody ... if you are
lurking .. can you shed some light on this?"


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[Hornlist] Holton 105

[Loren]

Can someone in the know explain what changes were made to the Holton 104
when it metamorphed into the 105?

Loren Mayhew
\@()
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(520) 403-6897


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Re: [Hornlist] Yamaha 861 horns

[Jerryold99]

Hi,

Thanks for dropping the political crap.  It doesn't
change anyone's mind, it creates bad feelings,
it wastes bandwidth and it has caused some nice
folks to leave the list.   ..and, there are always some
idiots out there who think that if they get in the last 
word ... they win.  I try to keep my politics in the 
voting booth rather than on the hornlist.

I can't give you info about playing characteristics
of the 861(which I think is your main concern), 
however, I can give you some other info which 
you may not have. 

YHR-861
Standard yellow brass Geyer wrap
Made from 1982-1992
Bore .469
Medium bell throat
Current equivalent - YHR-667V (There is some 
conflicting data published by Yamaha.  The 861 is
described as having a medium bell and the 667V
a medium-large bell so there may have been some
design changes to the 667V and it may not be the 
same horn renumbered.  Johnny Woody ... if you are
lurking .. can you shed some light on this?)

Regards, Jerry in Kansas City
 

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[Hornlist] Yamaha 861 horns

[Jjhornman]

Ok, lets change the subject, does anyone know the low down on the 861 custom? 
 I'm currently thinking of changing my playing style and some imput on these 
horns would be nice,

hoss
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Re: [Hornlist] DOH!... correction

[YATESLAWRENCE]

In a message dated 27/02/2003 20:14:33 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:


> One phrase :)
> 
> I type so fast I make mistakes sometimes... but you should get the gist of 
> it. Besides, anyone who would rather nitpick my grammar than argue a 
> valid/invalid point has no argument.

Blast!!!  You got in before I could!

All the best,

Lawrence
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[Hornlist] DOH!... correction

[Valkhorn]

One word -

Should be

One phrase :)

I type so fast I make mistakes sometimes... but you should get the gist of 
it. Besides, anyone who would rather nitpick my grammar than argue a 
valid/invalid point has no argument.

-William
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Re: [Hornlist] NHR: Hans has gone too far : comparing Bush to Hitlerand Nazi

[Valkhorn]

I totally agree, and in addition to all the real problems the US faces right 
now (economy, healthcare, education, cultural-gridlock) and yet we will spend 
not a dime on them.

But, we have no trouble scapegoating and spending 400 billion dollars on a 
war which could not only kill 100,000's of Iraqis but 100,000's of Americans.

Does Vietnam ring any bells? During that time we had so many problems in the 
country (oil crisis, inflation, civil rights movement, the Cold War) and we 
did really nothing about them. And yet we still thought foolishly that a tiny 
sliver of a country moving towards Communism would inheritly destroy the US.

Its the same this go around. With all the problems in our own country, and 
since Saddam hasn't bothered us in years, and even with a worse threat from 
North Korea (who has already sent a missle or two flying over Japan and the 
Pacific Ocean), why is it that the "Conflict with Iraq" is our president's 
biggest agenda (as well as many Americans sadly enough)?

One word - Iraq is our scapegoat.

Do we honestly think that if Iraq is bombed all our problems will 
miraculously go away?

-William

In a message dated 2/27/2003 12:03:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> Subj:Re: [Hornlist] NHR: Hans has gone too far : comparing Bush to Hitler 
> and Nazi 
> Date:2/27/2003 12:03:18 PM Pacific Standard Time
> From:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent from the Internet 
> 
> 
> 
> Hans:
> 
> Your apparent quote of President Bush, followed by a comparative reference 
> to 
> 
> Nazi Germany is truly revolting ! And truly inappropriate for this list.
> 
>How is it revolting to state a fact?  By pointing out the quite 
> similar statements made by Bush and Hitler, Prof. Pizka is simply reminding 
> 
> all of us that we must either learn from the past or be doomed to repeat 
> it.  
> I think there is a fine distinction to be made between patriotism, love of 
> one's fatherland, and politicized aggression which uses the guise of 
> patriotism to pursue its own agenda.  Just a thought, IMHO.
> 
> Erin Chernak
> University of Oklahoma
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Re: [Hornlist] However...NHR

[YATESLAWRENCE]

In a message dated 27/02/2003 20:00:26 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:


> However, I do understand that some NHR things should be kept for other 
> lists.

Like I've said many times,  butchers sometimes talk about fish.

I'm fascinated to hear the views of my friends here on subjects remote from 
horn playing.  I like watching fights (so long as no-one gets really hurt).  
I love the friction of  national differences and I think we're all the richer 
for it.

All the best,

Lawrence
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Re: [Hornlist] NHR: Hans has gone too far : comparing Bush to Hitlerand Nazi

[EEcOkY]

Hans:

Your apparent quote of President Bush, followed by a comparative reference to 

Nazi Germany is truly revolting ! And truly inappropriate for this list.

   How is it revolting to state a fact?  By pointing out the quite 
similar statements made by Bush and Hitler, Prof. Pizka is simply reminding 
all of us that we must either learn from the past or be doomed to repeat it.  
I think there is a fine distinction to be made between patriotism, love of 
one's fatherland, and politicized aggression which uses the guise of 
patriotism to pursue its own agenda.  Just a thought, IMHO.

Erin Chernak
University of Oklahoma
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[Hornlist] However...

[Valkhorn]

However, I do understand that some NHR things should be kept for other lists.

Sorry for two emails but I get jaunty with the Enter key...

-William
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Re: [Hornlist] Interesting

[Jjhornman]

Right on, I'm going to be 
LOOOUD

   now, hear me roar,

Hoss
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[Hornlist] Interesting

[Valkhorn]

I say Hans has a right to say what he wants. Don't American's believe in Free 
Speech anymore?

-William
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Re: [Hornlist] Hans has gone too far : comparing Bush to Hitler andNazi Ger...

[Jjhornman]

Ask yourself if Hans is right..don't read into it too much but realize 
that war is just that, do you think god determines which side he is going to 
pick?  If your going to start a war no matter what the cause just remember 
that evil and death can only become of it in this case, hitler started a war 
and so is Bush,

my two cents,

Hoss
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[Hornlist] Hans has gone too far : comparing Bush to Hitler and Nazi Germany !!

[Smithhorn]

Hans:

Your apparent quote of President Bush, followed by a comparative reference to 
Nazi Germany is truly revolting ! And truly inappropriate for this list.

I remain  interested in your horn and general music  comments but 
respectfully urge you to cease these ugly personal comments about world 
affairs, especially the United States.  

Those of use who teach the horn and /or music and who also are  fulltime paid 
professional horn players should not violate our positions of influence and 
trust in the music arenas where we have earned respect.

One of the reasons many professionals have stopped participating in this 
hornlist is because of the many outbreaks of nasty comments, seldom related 
to real horn issues. 

It is not an issue about freedom of speech. It is very simply a matter of 
misusing a music forum to vent  personal, unsolicited and biased political 
viewpoints

Sincerely,

John David Smith, DMA
Principal Horn
Florida Philharmonic Orchestra

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Re: [Hornlist] in the news

[Peter W. Schroth]

The quoted sentence is not familiar to most Americans.  It
is Hitler, on 1 September 1939, announcing the outbreak of
the war in a radio address.  He continued, "I will fight
this war, no matter against whom, until the safety of the
Reich and its rights are secured."

But certainly this is NHR.

Hans Pizka wrote:
> 
> "Until now others have written history. Now we are going to write
> history !" The president of the USA last night.
> 
> Oh boy, I think you could find such sentences in recordings from the
> time between 1933-1945. "Seit 5:45 wird zurueckgeschossen !"
> 
> Has nothing to do with my friends in the USA & with my own experience
> when travelling in the USA, where I had been treated with great
> friendliness everywhere I have been.
>

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[Hornlist] in the news

[Hans Pizka]

"Until now others have written history. Now we are going to write
history !" The president of the USA last night. 

Oh boy, I think you could find such sentences in recordings from the
time between 1933-1945. "Seit 5:45 wird zurueckgeschossen !" 

Has nothing to do with my friends in the USA & with my own experience
when travelling in the USA, where I had been treated with great
friendliness everywhere I have been.


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[Hornlist] parable

[Hans Pizka]

Antic Athens. A man stabbed another to death. Sokrates saw the murderer
running away. So the guard asked him: "Why did you not hold the murderer
?" - "What is a murderer ?" - "A murderer is someone who kills other
life !" - "You mean a butcher ?" - "Absolutely not ! A murderer is
someone, who kills people !" - "You mean a soldier ??" - "No, absolutely
no ! A murderer is someone, who kills a human in peacetime !" - "Oh, now
I understand. He is an executioner !" - "No you are wrong again. A
murderer is someone who kills a human inside the house !" - "Oooops, I
got it finally, yes I got it. A murderer is a doctor !"

Hopeless sophistery !


In music, there are murderers also, musical murderers besides the
murderers in the often poor opera stories. Well, we have one of these
musical murderers conducting tomorrows premiere of Goetterdaemmerung.
You know, playing Goetterdaemmerung now at the advent (hopefully not) of
a devasting war is something very, very special for those who are very
sensitive for this kind of music. The Funeral Music of Goetterdaemmerung
must be something, (if made the right way) where you start crying inside
yourself, really.

But if a conductor is able (??? Even that is very poor), to conduct
"Fledermaus" (the bat) the night before .., sorry, I might call this
"musical murder". 

Playing the horn calls, I have plenty time to watch him in our CCTV at
close up. Besides some sweat & a few puffing & panting NO emotional
signs nothing, even the singers are great (Salminnen, Schnaut,
Andersen). The production is not after my moderate & liberal taste. It
is by David Alden. E.g. last act doesn´t play in an even just symbolized
forest, where Siegfried is to be killed by Hagen in the conspiracy with
Gunther & Bruennhilde. It plays in a Forest Guest House, where the Rhine
Maiden dance very sexy dressed on a table, Siegfried emptying one
champagne bottle after the other plus several cans of Lowenbraeu beer
(real cans on stage). The hunting party as a whole is complety drunk
while still carrying guns. Doors go to flames, orange & blues colored
plastic chairs from a football stadium are moved up and down  the stage.
Brunnhilde burns some papers in a little fire in hole mid in the room.
Finally all breaks down & new platform is moved down on the stage. Seven
dino-size white mice crawl around. May-be the result of too much alcohol
consumed by the producer.

Well, may-be, it is just the wrong music for the production.

But there was an accident during the dress rehearsal. End first act, the
stage horn has the play the so called "fake Gunther", extremely loud
Siegfried motiv, standing at the edge of the stage. The same moment a
fireworker has to run from one side (backstage) to my side, pass me at
last moment to release the other fire for a door. This time, his way was
blocked by a silly camera crew, portraying for our boss Sir Peter Jonas.
The fireworker could not pass quickly enough , and as it is today: music
is much less important than cheap effects on stage, so he nearly ran me
to ground, just one measure before my fortississimo entrance, hitting my
horn; mouthpiece hit my lower lip quite hard. But fortunately no teeth
damage happen, no severe lip damage also, just a bruise on the lower
lip. But I could play the solo.

Can you imagine my outburst against the producer & the camera crew,
right after the accident. You should have heard that.

Take it just as illustrations from a horn players life.

Greetings

Hans


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[Hornlist] Horn Recital with Kerry Turner

[Heribert Kröger]

Hallo all,

here is an e-mail from Kerry Turner, which I want to pass on to you all:

"Dear Friends,

I would like to invite you to attend a "Soiree pour Amis du Cor", a recital to be 
given by Kristina Mascher and myself. We will be performing the brilliant Concerto for 
Two Horns by Haydn, as well as a set of brand new duets composed by yours truly. Each 
one of us will be presenting a couple of solo pieces as well, including works by 
Turner, Hindemith, Doug Hill and Kalliwoda. 

This event is to take place on Monday, March 10, at 8 pm at the Villa Louvigny in 
Luxembourg. Price of admission is 8 Euros. 

We would love to see you there and would greatly appreciate it if you would pass this 
e-mail on to others who may be interested. 

Sincerely,
Kerry Turner"

I will surely be there.

Heribert Kröger




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