RE: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 29, Issue 23
Shel, this is a common error. Our lips our embouchure are not equal to a double-reed instrument, but function like a single reed instrument (clarinet). The vibration of the lower lip can be neglected as it has quite no function. Try playing any note with the mpiece inserted into the tongue. It works also. == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sheldon Kirshner Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 5:21 AM To: The Horn List Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 29, Issue 23 The reed refers to the aperture between the lips through which the air passes when playing. (our lips form the reed) The largest reed is one that approaches or equals the maximum inner diameter of the rim. The smallest reed is -- assuming the typical 2/3 upper and 1/3 lower or half and half position on the mouthpiece -- with the opening occuring nearer the bottom of the mouthpiece, which makes high tessitura playing more efficient. It makes for a shorter vibrating surface-- which are the lips across which the air passes. Shel ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] The human reed
On Fri, 20 May 2005, Sheldon Kirshner wrote:
-- assuming the typical 2/3 upper and 1/3 lower or half and half
position on the mouthpiece -- with the opening occuring nearer the bottom of
the mouthpiece, which makes high tessitura playing more efficient. It makes
for a shorter vibrating surface-- which are the lips across which the air
passes.
Shel
This makes for a bit of a math problem: If your reed is a given fraction
of the way from the top of the mp to the bottom (the other end of a
diameter), just what percent of full size (the diameter) is it?
My late night calculation sez: if you call the fraction of the way t,
then the fraction of the length of your reed is:
2 x square root (t - t squared)
For t = 1/3 (or 2/3), your reed is nearly 94% of full size. That doesn't
seem like much advantage, and yet apparently it helps a lot.
I'm not sure how to interpret half and half, but if it means halfway
from the center of the mp to the edge, then the fractions are 1/4 and 3/4
of the way, and the reed length is nearly 87%, still almost the whole
thing.
A mouthpiece has a diameter of maybe 17mm; if you are at the 1/3 position,
then you lose 6% or (only) about 1mm of muscle inside. That is, unless
you compress your lip for the high notes, in which case, you might well
have more meat in there than you do for the low and middle range.
Related question: if you played at the *upper* 1/3 position instead of the
lower, would your lips eventually learn to exchange their function? That
is, aren't they biologically nearly identical? And if so, then wouldn't
they vibrate equally? And wouldn't that make your horn a double-reed
instrument, like an oboe, instead of primarily a single-reed instrument?
And so to bed.
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
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[Hornlist] RE: Schmid Horns - redrot
I agree that Schmid horns are beautiful made, and as with all horns, in the right hands sound terrific. (I can't play an 8D like Myron Bloom!) However, I do want to put up a warning of something I've been seeing lately. In the last month I have had 4 Schmid horns come through my shop - all with redrot. I have done some research on this matter and found that Schmid uses chemicals to remove excess solder on his horns. These are typically very caustic chemicals and Yamaha found that their use of Enthone was causing their rot problems in the early eighties. Some manufacturers use no chemicals at all, and simply buff the extra solder away - a more labor intensive process. If you own a Schmid horn, check your 3rd F and the Bb return slide (the one that comes from the first valve and goes underneath the cluster to the 4th valve) for little red dots. Most of the horns I have been seeing are all around 2 - 4 years old (far too young to have this problem). Hopefully this problem is limited to a very few horns as they are so highly respected. Sincerely, Ken Pope Just Put Your Lips Together And Blow http://www.poperepair.com US Dealer: Kuhn Horns Bonna Cases Pope Instrument Repair 80 Wenham Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 617-522-0532 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: wrong list
I just realized that I posted my 'Schmid' note on the Memphis list rather than the Yahoo list - sorry for the confusion! Ken Just Put Your Lips Together And Blow http://www.poperepair.com US Dealer: Kuhn Horns Bonna Cases Pope Instrument Repair 80 Wenham Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 617-522-0532 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Teacher scam
Hi listers, I have spent a bit of time this week dealing with somebody trying to scam me. I believe theygot my name and email off the Hornplayer.net teacher listing. In March I got an email asking if this gent's son could take lessons from me how much would it cost. I sensed right away that something was wrong as the mail had .UK in the address - and I'm in California. I sent him an answer with my usual questions, including what experience the kid had and what kind of horn he played. I got numerous emails from this guy, and he never answered the questions. He said that a relative owed him a large sum of money and as soon as he got it he'd send me a check to cover the cost of lessons. Now you know something is wrong. He sent a mail asking for my mailing address so he could send me the check. It's a good thing I fell off the turnip truck more than a year ago. I sent him the address of the University where I teach. I also asked where the young man would stay here in California. No answer to that one... On Tuesday I found an envelope in my mail box from him. It had been sent from the Netherlands. Inside were three US International Postal Money Orders, each for $970. I went home and my wife and I discussed what the guy was trying to do. Our first thoughts were money laundering or simply that the guy would want me to deposit the checks and as soon as I had, he would ask me for a personal check to refund some or all of it. The next morning when I checked my email, whaddya know, there's an urgent message from him. He had sent me the large amount of money because he didn't trust his son to handle it himself. But horror - his uncle was in a terrible accident and he needed all the money back right away. I took the checks and a copy of the emails to a local law enforcement office and have been in touch with the USPS Postal Inspection Service. After learning what an International Postal Money Order is supposed to look like, these are obviously counterfeit. The guy called me that morning. He asked me if I had read his mail and I said no. He didn't mention anything to me about the accident or needing the money back. He asked the same questions over and over. Had I deposited the checks yet? Had I read his mail? I kept saying no and he kept urging me to do it immediately. Since then he has called dozens of times. He is going to stop now and all is going to be well - with us. The lessons as usual are not to trust strangers, never give out your phone number over the net and if it seems too good to be true I hope I have spared someone the moronic tragedy of helping out someone like this - helping them to your money that is! Scott ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE: wrong list
But, Ken, it is a very interesting news, indeed. Question: Does lacquering add more to the worse, if the excess solder is removed by aggressive chemicals ? I understood also, that if this excess solder is removed by aggressive chemicals, these must be neutralized extremely well. Some makers believe, that imperfect degreasing before lacquering promotes redrot in some ways. Is this true ? I personally found out, that silver gold plating factory new instruments, including the extremely careful process of degreasing before the plating, does something for the durability (more precious metal and its anti corrosive effect ...). I also feel, that it does something positive regarding playing qualities, perhaps just as a placebo effect, as one will try playing better keeping a nicer looking more precious instrument in his or her hands (no gender ranking intended !). This is rather empiric not scientific, my personal experience playing silver gold plated instruments since years. By the way, just received a new horn Thursday use it as a test ride for Bruckner no.7 this week with expected superb result. See more details of the horn on my home page. www.pizka.de/PizClasHr.htm === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 11:41 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] RE: wrong list I just realized that I posted my 'Schmid' note on the Memphis list rather than the Yahoo list - sorry for the confusion! Ken Just Put Your Lips Together And Blow http://www.poperepair.com US Dealer: Kuhn Horns Bonna Cases Pope Instrument Repair 80 Wenham Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 617-522-0532 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Teacher scam
It's one form of a scam that's been going on for a while. Guy places an order from a different nation. Sends a check (or money order) way in excess of the amount of the order. Tells the person who received the check not to worry just go ahead and deposit it and mail the overage back to person who placed order. Person who received check does so in good faith, bank initially credits his account for amount of check. Then couple of days or week or so later turns out the check or money order is fraudulent. Person who cashed it is SOL. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Hartman Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 10:00 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Teacher scam Hi listers, I have spent a bit of time this week dealing with somebody trying to scam me. I believe theygot my name and email off the Hornplayer.net teacher listing. In March I got an email asking if this gent's son could take lessons from me how much would it cost. I sensed right away that something was wrong as the mail had .UK in the address - and I'm in California. I sent him an answer with my usual questions, including what experience the kid had and what kind of horn he played. I got numerous emails from this guy, and he never answered the questions. He said that a relative owed him a large sum of money and as soon as he got it he'd send me a check to cover the cost of lessons. Now you know something is wrong. He sent a mail asking for my mailing address so he could send me the check. It's a good thing I fell off the turnip truck more than a year ago. I sent him the address of the University where I teach. I also asked where the young man would stay here in California. No answer to that one... On Tuesday I found an envelope in my mail box from him. It had been sent from the Netherlands. Inside were three US International Postal Money Orders, each for $970. I went home and my wife and I discussed what the guy was trying to do. Our first thoughts were money laundering or simply that the guy would want me to deposit the checks and as soon as I had, he would ask me for a personal check to refund some or all of it. The next morning when I checked my email, whaddya know, there's an urgent message from him. He had sent me the large amount of money because he didn't trust his son to handle it himself. But horror - his uncle was in a terrible accident and he needed all the money back right away. I took the checks and a copy of the emails to a local law enforcement office and have been in touch with the USPS Postal Inspection Service. After learning what an International Postal Money Order is supposed to look like, these are obviously counterfeit. The guy called me that morning. He asked me if I had read his mail and I said no. He didn't mention anything to me about the accident or needing the money back. He asked the same questions over and over. Had I deposited the checks yet? Had I read his mail? I kept saying no and he kept urging me to do it immediately. Since then he has called dozens of times. He is going to stop now and all is going to be well - with us. The lessons as usual are not to trust strangers, never give out your phone number over the net and if it seems too good to be true I hope I have spared someone the moronic tragedy of helping out someone like this - helping them to your money that is! Scott ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Oboe Reeds in horns, was pressure
Because everyone can't be Bill Vermuelen and might want to be, here is a neat little trick to see how the aparture works. In a rehearsal for Mozart 29 I sat next to the oboe player and we experimented with parts. He took an old oboe reed he had lying around and put it into my horn mouthpiece. The small aparture of the reed in conjunction with the horn produced High G's above High C's, sometimes I could lip up to a High A and a High Bb above high C. This result prooves that a really fast air speed and a very small aparture produces very high notes and NOT pressure. I should mention that the tone was very full and bright unlike the fake high c's you can get by halfly depressing the first valve on some horns or something like that. I then experimented with a Bassoon reed which is about twice the size, the result was a G right above the staff one octave lower. With a Contra reed the result was a 3rd space C on the middle of the staff. Really, to actually produce a High G or any note for that matter, all we need to do is use lip tension to create an aparture small enough or high enough for the note we are aiming forplus use enough airspeed to get the note to speak at that vibration or frequency. I think one of the things left out in this talk was the important use of lip tension to create high notes. I think pressure creates tension in a bad way in brass playing; it's unreliable and therefore it is discouraged although it can get the same result as tension playing within the lips. But the trick is creating the tension in your lips without needing the added mouthpiece pressure so the tone is not distorted or airy or doesn't speak at all. So, what is the biggest key of high playing or loud playing? Let the air do the work, relax, and don't use pressure but tension in your playing. If you don't trust this theory, get an oboe reed and play some High G's! Make sure you put enough air through the reed that it speaks though. The reed can be in terrible terrible shape so you don't need a new reed, maybe a friend will have one they are willing to give away? Josh Johnson ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 29, Issue 27
And so I read on, the reed post was already stollen..sorry for the double post, hopefully my post had some insight...sorry for the repitition-maybe this shows how important this is! Josh ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Oboe Reeds in horns, was pressure
Josh, very interesting observation, which confirms my own experience. But, without personal critics, isn´t it aperture not aparture ??? == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 6:18 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Oboe Reeds in horns, was pressure Because everyone can't be Bill Vermuelen and might want to be, here is a neat little trick to see how the aparture works. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Oboe Reeds in horns, was pressure
From http://www.m-w.com aperture is from Latin apertura, from apertus, past participle of aperire to open -S- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] du] On Behalf Of Hans Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 1:14 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Oboe Reeds in horns, was pressure Josh, very interesting observation, which confirms my own experience. But, without personal critics, isn´t it aperture not aparture ??? == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 6:18 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Oboe Reeds in horns, was pressure Because everyone can't be Bill Vermuelen and might want to be, here is a neat little trick to see how the aparture works. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridaysc omputer.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] NHR - Teacher scam
On Sat, 21 May 2005, Bill Gross wrote:
It's one form of a scam that's been going on for a while. Guy places an
order from a different nation. Sends a check ... Then couple of days or
week or so later turns out the check or money order is fraudulent.
Person who cashed it is SOL.
A friend just experienced a variation on this scam - the call was from
Nigeria, and the check was from the account of a recreational vehicle
dealer in California, and it was good - the money *was* deposited in my
friend's account - she kept stalling the persistent angry and hysterical
phone calls and emails. We googled the phone number of the RV dealer and
called - they never heard of the person. At the end of the month they got
their bank statement and discovered that the check really was drawn on
their account; the owner called my friend back - angry, thinking that she
was in on the caper. She explained it all (again) and wired him his
money. Nigeria stopped calling.
Apparently this can happen if the ne'er-do-wells have an accomplice in the
bank or perhaps in the company - how else to get a legitimate check made
out?
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
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RE: [Hornlist] Oboe Reeds in horns, was pressure
On Sat, 21 May 2005, Steve Freides wrote:
... aperture is from Latin apertura, from apertus, past participle of
aperire to open
I thought that aperire means to laugh at a gorilla.
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
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RE: [Hornlist] Oboe Reeds in horns, was pressure
I agree, Josh, good observation but I feel your advice is misleading about pressure... Your observation doesn't change the fact that most professional horn players use a moderate to heavy amount of pressure. I will not cite an article to prove that, but I will stand by that statement. We are not playing through oboe reeds, we are playing through lips. Albeit, good brass players have the MUSCULATURE to support this pressure and press back at the mouthpiece. That is the difference between an inexperienced player trying to push to get the notes out, and a player who can use pressure to his advantage: in order to seal the lips during high resistance playing (high and loud, and low playing esp.) I will however say that a very small percentage of people seem have en embouchure that permits them to play without much pressure at all. Peter Damm comes to mind, although no one else notable. Please feel free to flame me, if you're a professional horn player who can play a Mozart concerto with your horn hanging from the ceiling on a string. Aleks Ozolins NYC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hans Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 2:14 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Oboe Reeds in horns, was pressure Josh, very interesting observation, which confirms my own experience. But, without personal critics, isn´t it aperture not aparture ??? == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 6:18 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Oboe Reeds in horns, was pressure Because everyone can't be Bill Vermuelen and might want to be, here is a neat little trick to see how the aparture works. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/aleksozolins%40hotmail.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mahler 2nd -- A Question
Greetings -- I wonder if someone could perhaps enlighten me regarding the bells up indications found in Mahlers 2nd. Throughout the 2nd, Mahler indicates bells up as mit aufgehobenem Schalltrichter However in the final movement after rehearsal number 49, the big horn entrance marked FFF, Mahler specifies mit aufwarts gerichteten Schalltrichter. Can someone (Hans?) tell me what the difference (if any) between the two bells up indications might be? Did Mahler intend something different than the normal bells up after rehearsal number 49? Regards, Michael Henry ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: wrong list
In a message dated 5/21/2005 10:03:18 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I understood also, that if this excess solder is removed by aggressive chemicals, these must be neutralized extremely well. Holton used a deleading solution to remove the excess solder. After soaking in the solution, the horn was then bright dipped and then dipped in a solution of baking soda to neutralize the bright did. The horns were also put in a tank of solution and reverse current was used to remove all the chemicals and deposits inside the horn. Most of these processes were withheld from Yamaha when they toured Holton. Wes Hatch ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: wrong list
In a message dated 5/21/2005 2:17:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I understood also, that if this excess solder is removed by aggressive chemicals, these must be neutralized extremely well. Holton used a deleading solution to remove the excess solder. After soaking in the solution, the horn was then bright dipped and then dipped in a solution of baking soda to neutralize the bright did. The horns were also put in a tank of solution and reverse current was used to remove all the chemicals and deposits inside the horn. Most of these processes were withheld from Yamaha when they toured Holton. Wes Hatch Again we are dealing with pseudo technology vs. real technology. As nice as super custom horns can be, the real difference is usually in the care taken in assembly. Anyone who has learned how to disassemble an instrument, perfectly fit the parts, and assemble it with a clear bore and no strains realizes the designs of top level factory brands is pretty much as good as most custom instruments, but very few players have ever played a 'blueprinted' factory horn. For years I have touted Reynolds Contempora horns as the best bargain in the horn world. I used to think only Cleveland production was truly pro level, but as my restoration skills have grown and I've started using a reamer to clean and open the bores, The Abilene horns are every bit as good as the Cleveland horns, only the assembly was done with really unskilled labor. I have been quite critical of the industry not adopting more high tech manufacturing methods, particularly CNC machining to +/- 0.0003 tolerances, hydro forming to similar tolerances with wall thickness control, and atmosphere furnace brazing. This, and similar posts about Schmid horns are changing my opinion a bit. My experience with technical manufacturing processes goes back many years, and when I hear this story about red rot from a custom manufacturer who charges super premium price for the supposed superior technology applied to the instruments, I realize smaller, newer manufacturers don't really have a grasp of what technology really is. As a process consultant, I go into many situations with smaller companies where their proprietory procedures were all stolen over the years from the big companies, and nobody has a clue to understanding the underlying technology. The point about Holton being careful not to show Yamaha critical processing steps is classic. I once taught a larceous employee of a competitor how to rework plated lamp bases that had been buffed through without removing the brazed on part. He took this back to the competitor and they implemented the process. These were water cooled arc lamps, and any ions in the water bath would bleed of the starting voltage. I knew it was impossible to clean out all the plating solution, so a few lamps in the water would keep any lamp from starting. My salesmen were told only that the competitors lamps always screwed up the system, and to insist that the deionized water be replaced before running our lamps. This is so close to the red rot story, I had to laugh. For what it's worth, the solution you refer to is probably either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide being used as an opposite procedure to plating. Bright dip is an acid solution. The hydroxide is very base, but actually strips the surface down to new metal. This step is often referred to as passivating, or pickling. The first thing one must learn about industrial cleaning is that it involves a series of chemical operations mostly to clean up the mess from the previous step. A very common agent for the last step is 23A ethanol. 200 proof drinkable alcohol. 23A and orange juice is a phillips screwdriver because it has twice the strength. Kickapoo juice is Koolaid made with 23A. My dad made a batch for a neighborhood block party, when I was a kid, and had all the parents sleeping on our lawn while we kids went nuts. If you want to learn more about tube materials and processes, the American Institute of Physics currently publishes two classic books that are chock-full of advanced information: HANDBOOK OF MATERIALS AND TECHNIQUES FOR VACUUM DEVICES, by Walter Kohl (ISBN 1-56396-387-6); and HANDBOOK OF ELECTRON TUBE AND VACUUM TECHNIQUES, by Fred Rosebury (ISBN 1-56396-121-0). The Rosebury should be in the shop of every technician who works on brasswinds. The book is a priceless, practical 'cookbook' with easy to follow recipes. It lists sources for supplies by brand name. Since Rosebury was working out of MIT, their library has all the references in the bibliography readily available. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Warm-Up and Warm Down
Dear List, How do some of you warm-up and warm-down? I thought it would fun and educational to ask professional and college players about how they warm-up and warm down. This is a very good question because there are many different styles to everyone's warm-up routine. Hans Pizka may warm-up doing long tones and Paul Mansur may warm-up doing arpeggios and vice versa. Let's start off with me: I buzz on my mouthpiece, always making sure that I center every note. Then I play every harmonic (please excuse me if this is the wrong term) on each fingering, then I play long tones and work on my low range (from the Brophy book). Then I work on the Farkas accuracy exercises. And finally, I play a slow Kopprasch etude. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] CYSO Audition
Dear List, Remember when I was nervous about my Chicago Youth Orchestra audition back in March, well I made it into the program. I made the Chicago Youth Concert Orchestra. I almost didn't go to the audition because Hans Pizka put me down so badly, but I did well and I made it. I hit every note in the Strauss Op. 11. I felt great when I left the audition site. If I would have listened to Hans then I would have missed out on the opportunity of a lifetime. Well I just thought that I would let the list know that my audition went okay. Thanks for all of your pointers and help before my audition. Your Hornliness, James Woods ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Warm-Up and Warm Down
About a year or so ago National Peoples Radio here in the US had a one horn program on horn music and NYC horn players. I can't recall the names, but I think one of the players involved was Chambers and the other was well known horn player in New York who did both symphony work and jazz gigs. One evening they both were working together and the player whose name I can't recall showed just before the performance with no warm up time provided. Chambers (if my memory on this is correct) asked him about warming up, his answer, I did that - once. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 8:31 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Warm-Up and Warm Down Dear List, How do some of you warm-up and warm-down? I thought it would fun and educational to ask professional and college players about how they warm-up and warm down. This is a very good question because there are many different styles to everyone's warm-up routine. Hans Pizka may warm-up doing long tones and Paul Mansur may warm-up doing arpeggios and vice versa. Let's start off with me: I buzz on my mouthpiece, always making sure that I center every note. Then I play every harmonic (please excuse me if this is the wrong term) on each fingering, then I play long tones and work on my low range (from the Brophy book). Then I work on the Farkas accuracy exercises. And finally, I play a slow Kopprasch etude. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Warm-Up and Warm Down
At 9:06 PM -0500 5/21/05, Bill Gross wrote: . . . National Peoples Radio . . . Chambers (if my memory on this is correct) asked him about warming up, his answer, I did that - once. So, Bill, are you saying that warmups aren't necessary? For me they are absolutely necessary, and it's a rare day that I don't do them at home first thing in the morning. Regards, Carlberg P.S. I believe it's National Public Radio. Carlberg Jones Guanajuato, Gto. MEXICO ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Rank Amateur Counting Measures
It's not a pretty sight, but here it is... http://pstr-m01.ygpweb.aol.com/data/014/5A/03/62/24/6I-Ie-PhNcbcu99KUjfft4r0Kp0uXfuf0180.jpghttp://pstr-m01.ygpweb.aol.com/data/014/5A/03/62/24/6I-Ie-PhNcbcu99KUjfft4r0Kp0uXfuf0180.jpg -- Alan Cole, rank amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.14 - Release Date: 5/20/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Warm-Up and Warm Down
Carlberg Jones wrote: At 9:06 PM -0500 5/21/05, Bill Gross wrote: . . . National Peoples Radio . . . Chambers (if my memory on this is correct) asked him about warming up, his answer, I did that - once. So, Bill, are you saying that warmups aren't necessary? For me they are absolutely necessary, and it's a rare day that I don't do them at home first thing in the morning. The subject of warmups has been beaten to death in the area of athletics and the conclusions there are, IMHO, relevant here as well. 1. If you're used to warming up, then warming up is absolutely necessary and you will perform worse if you don't do it. 2. It is possible for most people to become used to doing very little, if any, warmup. The other side is that there is no harm done in warming up properly; the only potential harm comes when one warms up so much that the best part of the performance is left in the warmup room. In short, if you've found a routine that works for you, keep on doing it, and don't worry about how you warmup. If, on the other hand, you think your warmups are hindering your playing or otherwise preventing you performing at your best, try something different. Steve you can get used to hanging if you do it long enough Freides ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Rank Amateur Counting Measures
At 10:29 PM -0400 5/21/05, Alan Cole wrote: http://pstr-m01.ygpweb.aol.com/data/014/5A/03/62/24/6I-Ie-PhNcbcu99KUjfft4r0Kp0 uXfuf0180.jpghttp://pstr-m01.ygpweb.aol.com/data/014/5A/03/62/24/6I-Ie-PhNcbcu9 9KUjfft4r0Kp0uXfuf0180.jpg Screen Name: Password: ??? Carlberg Jones Guanajuato, Gto. MEXICO ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Rank Amateur Counting Measures
OK, try it this way... http://members.cox.net/acole2/AAC-count.jpg (no screen name, no password, no folderol) -AC. ~ Screen Name: Password: ??? Carlberg Jones Guanajuato, Gto. MEXICO -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.14 - Release Date: 5/20/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] CYSO Audition
I feel as though you do not understand the whole point of Hans' 'diatribe'. It was not an attempt to discredit you, but to merely make you reexamine the purpose of your audition. If you audition solely on the basis of 'hitting the right notes' well, that is a good start but will not do very well further down the road; I can guarrantee you that. Hans is a very kind and warm person; not the monster many of you make him out to be; and to be honest, I would prefer honest criticism that may hurt at first, but ultimately prove beneficial. You will get nowhere with this sugarcoating - something I have noticed to be extremely prevalent (especially in the USA) ever since I have lived here. I congradulate you on your achievements; I am sure you will be a very fine horn player - but keep in mind that before you discredit someone with infinitely more experience than yourself (and myself included). Warmest regards, Paul R. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 9:38 PM Subject: [Hornlist] CYSO Audition Dear List, Remember when I was nervous about my Chicago Youth Orchestra audition back in March, well I made it into the program. I made the Chicago Youth Concert Orchestra. I almost didn't go to the audition because Hans Pizka put me down so badly, but I did well and I made it. I hit every note in the Strauss Op. 11. I felt great when I left the audition site. If I would have listened to Hans then I would have missed out on the opportunity of a lifetime. Well I just thought that I would let the list know that my audition went okay. Thanks for all of your pointers and help before my audition. Your Hornliness, James Woods ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/dennisbrainchild%40earthlink.n et ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] CYSO Audition
Question: Did you make the youth symphony orchestra or the concert orchestra? Paul R. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 9:38 PM Subject: [Hornlist] CYSO Audition Dear List, Remember when I was nervous about my Chicago Youth Orchestra audition back in March, well I made it into the program. I made the Chicago Youth Concert Orchestra. I almost didn't go to the audition because Hans Pizka put me down so badly, but I did well and I made it. I hit every note in the Strauss Op. 11. I felt great when I left the audition site. If I would have listened to Hans then I would have missed out on the opportunity of a lifetime. Well I just thought that I would let the list know that my audition went okay. Thanks for all of your pointers and help before my audition. Your Hornliness, James Woods ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/dennisbrainchild%40earthlink.n et ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Brass Trio
Dear List, Does anyone know of any college and high school level Brass Trio music for horn, trumpet, and trombone? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Brass Trio
The Poulenc Trio is a great piece! Technically I believe it is called Sonata for Brass. I am ready for flaming, but it works with Horn, Euph. and Tuba as well. Give the Euph. the Trumpet part and the Tuba the Trombone part. I have played it a few times with this ensemble. Wishing you well, Bryan Doughty BVD Press and Cimarron Music Press 79 Meetinghouse Lane Ledyard, CT 06339 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 860 536-2185 http://www.bvdpress.com/ http://www.cimarronmusic.com/ Dear List, Does anyone know of any college and high school level Brass Trio music for horn, trumpet, and trombone? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bvdpress%40snet.net -- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Brass Trio
Of course. Aren't those the insturments for Poulenc? Try that one. Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear List, Does anyone know of any college and high school level Brass Trio music for horn, trumpet, and trombone? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/frenchorngeek%40yahoo.com - Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Brass Trio
There's a work I've seen by Mark Wolfram that is distributed by the IHS http://www.hornsociety.org/_forms/IHS_press.pdf -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 11:44 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject:[Hornlist] Brass Trio Dear List, Does anyone know of any college and high school level Brass Trio music for horn, trumpet, and trombone? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/arsmiley%40usadatanet.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Warm-Up and Warm Down
Your method is quite good, but you may consider by the time, becomming independent from a certain warm-up routine, as you may not have the time to do so in the rehearsal place of a professional orchestra. This would mean consequently, that you have to warm up at home. How about the cold winter or the hot summer, when all the hoe work is gone as soon as you leave the house ? Get independent from this routine, so the embouchure gets ready as soon as the mouth piece is set on the lips. This seems to be strange. Yes, it is. And it works only for those, having the so called embouchure by nature, the ideal form of an embouchure. But this is also paired with negligence to the necessary home work. So, build up your embouchure exactly the way, you do it or as you described it, but still keeping the embouchure alert to work full after just two three scales. If you have to play the great demanding works (Wagner, Strauss, Bruckner), you will need the endurance for the piece. If you depend on the half hour warm up exercises still, most of your amunnition will have been spent before the task has begun yet. About your audition, dear young player, you have got my admonition right into the wrong mouth, you have not understood the sense of it merely. But it has worked, ifd you see the result. A kick into the ass at the right time can effect miracles. Keep things going upwards, but do not forget, hitting the right notes at the right time in the right dynamic plus in the right expression is just the START of making music. It is a permanent LEARNING PROCESS including many highs an more lows and many hit backs. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 2:31 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Warm-Up and Warm Down Dear List, How do some of you warm-up and warm-down? I thought it would fun and educational to ask professional and college players about how they warm-up and warm down. This is a very good question because there are many different styles to everyone's warm-up routine. Hans Pizka may warm-up doing long tones and Paul Mansur may warm-up doing arpeggios and vice versa. Let's start off with me: I buzz on my mouthpiece, always making sure that I center every note. Then I play every harmonic (please excuse me if this is the wrong term) on each fingering, then I play long tones and work on my low range (from the Brophy book). Then I work on the Farkas accuracy exercises. And finally, I play a slow Kopprasch etude. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Brass Trio
On Sat, 21 May 2005, BVD Press wrote:
The Poulenc Trio is a great piece! Technically I believe it is called
Sonata for Brass.
I am ready for flaming, but it works with Horn, Euph. and Tuba as
well. Give the Euph. the Trumpet part and the Tuba the Trombone
part. I have played it a few times with this ensemble.
No flame here - I prefer using horn, flute or oboe, and bassoon.
Wonderful sound!
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
___
post: horn@music.memphis.edu
unsubscribe or set options at
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Re: [Hornlist] Brass Trio
There's a Verne Reynolds trio as well? Chris --- BVD Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Poulenc Trio is a great piece! Technically I believe it is called Sonata for Brass. I am ready for flaming, but it works with Horn, Euph. and Tuba as well. Give the Euph. the Trumpet part and the Tuba the Trombone part. I have played it a few times with this ensemble. Wishing you well, Bryan Doughty BVD Press and Cimarron Music Press 79 Meetinghouse Lane Ledyard, CT 06339 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 860 536-2185 http://www.bvdpress.com/ http://www.cimarronmusic.com/ Dear List, Does anyone know of any college and high school level Brass Trio music for horn, trumpet, and trombone? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bvdpress%40snet.net -- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/tedesccj%40yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Mahler 2nd -- A Question
Mit aufgehobenem Schalltrichter translates into with lifted up bell explains as: lift the bell a bit sidewards keep the hand a bit more open than usual so to create a somewhat hollow broad sound, like playing in a long marble plated gallery or in the deep forrest. mit aufwärts gerichtetem Schalltrichter translates with the bell pointed upwards explains as: bell up. Mahler exaggerated his playing instructions very often. Even bell up is a visual point, it is not necessary nor is it wise (regarding intonation) to follow this instructions point by point. We have different means to create the same acoustical effect. Our horns produce a more powerful sound as the single horns of his time. Even Vienna Phil horns started developing the very strong sound during the 1875-1910 period. We can lift the horn a bit side wards (not into your neighbours face , ear or body) between the several players, open the bell hand more or in the 2nd way dramatically more than usual, change the air support to use more air as usual, and we get the same effect WITHOUT the defect of bad intonation, as the right hand is still there to correct. Be naive, ask your conductor how he would translate it. Mostly, he cannot explain it right. Show him the difference between the word-by-word interpretation and the way I recommend ask him about his preference of the offered results (sound intonation), babblig something about insecurity, danger of cracking a note or two, thus destroying the beauty of the work, danger for the health of the neighbour player if the left ear would be exposed to this extreme sound . See for more Mahler terms on my home page www.pizka.de/GMahler2.htm Using the terms, you can screw the conductor. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Henry Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 8:20 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Mahler 2nd -- A Question Greetings -- I wonder if someone could perhaps enlighten me regarding the bells up indications found in Mahlers 2nd. Throughout the 2nd, Mahler indicates bells up as mit aufgehobenem Schalltrichter However in the final movement after rehearsal number 49, the big horn entrance marked FFF, Mahler specifies mit aufwarts gerichteten Schalltrichter. Can someone (Hans?) tell me what the difference (if any) between the two bells up indications might be? Did Mahler intend something different than the normal bells up after rehearsal number 49? Regards, Michael Henry ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
