Re: [Hornlist] Valve Corks

[Howard Sanner]

Tim "The Kid" Kecherson writes:
>


As I mentioned in a previous post, I have a 1970 Conn 8D.  Instead of =
having corks, it has rubber/plastic cylinders where the corks go.  =
However, these click when I finger the notes, and the valves are not =
aligned because of them.



Us N series 8D players gotta stick together.

	When you trim down the rubber or cork or corkene or whatever you 
end up using, take the stop plates off the horn, trim on the 
workbench, reinstall, check alignment, and repeat till it's 
right. You'll have to remove the stop arms to get the plates off. 
That will keep you from getting scratches on the back covers of 
your valve casings.


	As for the clicking, as others have said, it probably isn't the 
rubber, though you want the alignment to be right, of course. 
Unless the horn has had a *very* easy life, I suspect it is long 
since in need of a valve overhaul. At least mine was a couple 
years back. I've owned it since new, played it through HS and 
college, then again when I started to play again a few years 
back. You can check side- and end play, not to mention whether 
the valves will pop after moving a slide. However, the horn, 
unless a real dog or heavily damaged, is worth putting the money 
into and is likely to play great once the valves are in good shape.


HTH.

Howard Sanner
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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[Hornlist] valve corks

[Papierniak, Michael R]

Yet another solution would be to use cork whole bore-ers or drills used
in laboratories to cut wholes in corks and rubber stoppers for fitting
tubing or glass tubes in.  Once you cut the whole in a cork sheet of
appropriate thickness simply punch out the "whole" from the cutter and
there you have your cork stopper.Walter Lawson also told me about
the neoprene impregnated cork (which he used) that the military
developed for corking the clarinets etc., cork like and yet does not
soak up oil etc..

 

Michael Papierniak

 

 

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RE: [Hornlist] Valve Corks

[Robert Osmun]

Let's see: If I buy a cork borer (17.50), a sharpener (9.00), plus shipping
(14.42), and go find an old wine cork, boot heel, vacuum cleaner drive belt,
etc. to cut up, I will be free from rapacious valve bumper suppliers who
want to sell me bumper stock made of the proper material, in the proper
durometer, and the proper size (8.95 for 6 inches, enough for 3-4 horns,
plus 6.75 shipping). Oh boy!

Regards,

Bob Osmun
www.osmun.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
Goldberg
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 1:05 PM
To: The Horn List
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Valve Corks

If you google "cork borers" or "cork borer set", lots of websites will turn
up that sell cork borer sets - they cost about $20,  more or less.  
With the right diameter cork borer, you will become independent of valve
bumper suppliers.  You can make your own bumpers using cork, neoprene,
automobile tires, cheese, whatever you like.  You will be the envy of your
section when you treat your colleagues to a lifetime supply of corks for
about $0.00.

But wait - there's more!  You also can make protectors for glass table tops,
rubber washers, flute key pads, replacement erasers for your mechanical
pencils, tiny coasters for your kid's doll house cocktail parties, more!

You will also need a cork borer sharpener, available at most cork borer
outlets.  For example, see:

http://sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/10-G2627

David G.

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Re: [Hornlist] Valve Corks

[Fred]

Wow!  Great info - thanks, David, although Lawrence is right - I can
visualize Dan Ackroyd pitching this on SNL...

Goes without saying that you should use your neighbor's tires rather than
your own...

Fred


On 2/4/08, David Goldberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If you google "cork borers" or "cork borer set", lots of websites will
> turn up that sell cork borer sets - they cost about $20,  more or less.
> With the right diameter cork borer, you will become independent of valve
> bumper suppliers.  You can make your own bumpers using cork, neoprene,
> automobile tires, cheese, whatever you like.  You will be the envy of
> your section when you treat your colleagues to a lifetime supply of
> corks for about $0.00.
>
> But wait - there's more!  You also can make protectors for glass table
> tops, rubber washers, flute key pads, replacement erasers for your
> mechanical pencils, tiny coasters for your kid's doll house cocktail
> parties, more!
>
> You will also need a cork borer sharpener, available at most cork borer
> outlets.  For example, see:
>
> http://sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/10-G2627
>
> David G.
>
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Re: [Hornlist] Valve Corks

[YATESLAWRENCE]

 
In a message dated 04/02/2008 18:06:45 GMT Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:"

..You will also need a cork borer sharpener, available at most  cork 
borer 
outlets.  For example, see:."
 
Haven't I seen you on an ad on TV?
 
Cheers,
 
Lawrence






lawrenceyates.co.uk



   
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Re: [Hornlist] Valve Corks

[David Goldberg]

If you google "cork borers" or "cork borer set", lots of websites will 
turn up that sell cork borer sets - they cost about $20,  more or less.  
With the right diameter cork borer, you will become independent of valve 
bumper suppliers.  You can make your own bumpers using cork, neoprene, 
automobile tires, cheese, whatever you like.  You will be the envy of 
your section when you treat your colleagues to a lifetime supply of 
corks for about $0.00.


But wait - there's more!  You also can make protectors for glass table 
tops, rubber washers, flute key pads, replacement erasers for your 
mechanical pencils, tiny coasters for your kid's doll house cocktail 
parties, more!


You will also need a cork borer sharpener, available at most cork borer 
outlets.  For example, see:


http://sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/10-G2627

David G.

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Re: [Hornlist] Valve Corks

[Jerryold99]

 
In a message dated 2/4/2008 10:20:29 AM Central Standard Time,  [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] 
writes:

I just  have two small packs left. I got them through Ganter.
But I might ask  Worischek, where he gets them.



Hello Hans,
 
Horn corks are also available from Ferree's Tools, Inc. 
 
_www.ferreestools.com_ (http://www.ferreestools.com) 
 
They are available in diameters of:
 
3/16" = 4.8mm
1/4" = 6.4mm
5/16" = 7.9mm
3/8" = 9.5mm
 
I believe they are about US$7.00 for 12 cork sticks that are 
1 1/2" (38.1mm) long.  
 
Cork should also be available from most local repair shops 
here in the US.  Vacuum cleaner drive belt can also be used 
and one belt should be a lifetime supply of bumpers.   As you 
indicated, they can be difficult to install and trim to the proper 
size and they may not give the desired "bounce" to the lever 
action .. but, they are cheap and may be worth a try.  
 
Hope to see you in Denver this summer.
 
Very best regards, Jerry Old in Kansas  City 



**Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. 
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025
48)
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RE: [Hornlist] Valve Corks

[hans]

I just have two small packs left. I got them through Ganter.
But I might ask Worischek, where he gets them.


== 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sven Bring
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 12:08 PM
To: The Horn List
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Valve Corks

Hans, where do you get cork sticks? A German source would be
fine for me, since I live in sweden.

Sven

- Original Message 
> From: hans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: The Horn List 
> Sent: Monday, February 4, 2008 8:15:34 AM
> Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Valve Corks
> 
> Hello
> 
Tim,
> 
before
> 
you
> 
do
> 
anything,
> 
visit
> 
my
> 
website
> www.pizka.de/Corks.html
> 
and
> 
see
> 
how
> 
to
> 
replace
> 
them.
> 
I
> 
had
> used
> 
neoprene
> 
before,
> 
but
> 
they
> 
tend
> 
to
> 
swell
> 
if
> 
in
> 
contact
> with
> 
certain
> 
oils.
> 
So
> 
I
> 
changed
> 
back
> 
to
> 
the
> 
use
> 
of
> 
corks.
> Self
> 
cut
> 
corks
> 
are
> 
not
> 
any
> 
solution
> 
as
> 
it
> 
is
> 
hard
> 
to
> 
get
> them
> 
down
> 
to
> 
the
> 
right
> 
dimension,
> 
where
> 
1/2
> 
of
> 
a
> 
milimeter
> can
> 
influence
> 
playing.
> 
Send
> 
me
> 
your
> 
postal
> 
address
> 
&
> 
I
> 
shall
> send
> 
you
> 
two
> 
cork
> 
sticks,
> 
enough
> 
to
> 
change
> 
the
> 
corks
> 
twice
> 
-
> if
> 
you
> 
do
> 
it
> 
carefully.
> 
Do
> 
not
> 
forget
> 
wrapping
> 
the
> 
cork
> sticks
> 
into
> 
a
> 
thin
> 
towel,
> 
carefully
> 
hammering
> 
them
> 
to
> 
oval
> size,
> 
so
> 
you
> 
can
> 
insert
> 
them
> 
vertically
> 
in
> 
their
> 
sockets
> 
on
> the
> 
horn
> 
&
> 
then
> 
cut
> 
short.
> 
If
> 
the
> 
alignment
> 
(see
> 
the
> 
inner
> marks
> 
after
> 
descrewing
> 
the
> 
valve
> 
cap)
> 
is
> 
not
> 
at
> 
100%,
> 
press
> the
> 
cork
> 
just
> 
a
> 
bit
> 
sidewards
> 
in
> 
with
> 
a
> 
metal
> 
instrument
> 
or
> a
> 
wooden
> 
instrument.
> 
That
> 
works.
> 
>

> 
> 
> 
> ___
> post:
> 
horn@music.memphis.edu
> unsubscribe
> 
or
> 
set
> 
options
> 
at
> 
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yahoo.se
> 




 


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de


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Re: [Hornlist] Valve Corks

[Sven Bring]

Hans, where do you get cork sticks? A German source would be fine for me, since 
I live in sweden.

Sven

- Original Message 
> From: hans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: The Horn List 
> Sent: Monday, February 4, 2008 8:15:34 AM
> Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Valve Corks
> 
> Hello
> 
Tim,
> 
before
> 
you
> 
do
> 
anything,
> 
visit
> 
my
> 
website
> www.pizka.de/Corks.html 
> 
and
> 
see
> 
how
> 
to
> 
replace
> 
them.
> 
I
> 
had
> used
> 
neoprene
> 
before,
> 
but
> 
they
> 
tend
> 
to
> 
swell
> 
if
> 
in
> 
contact
> with
> 
certain
> 
oils.
> 
So
> 
I
> 
changed
> 
back
> 
to
> 
the
> 
use
> 
of
> 
corks.
> Self
> 
cut
> 
corks
> 
are
> 
not
> 
any
> 
solution
> 
as
> 
it
> 
is
> 
hard
> 
to
> 
get
> them
> 
down
> 
to
> 
the
> 
right
> 
dimension,
> 
where
> 
1/2
> 
of
> 
a
> 
milimeter
> can
> 
influence
> 
playing.
> 
Send
> 
me
> 
your
> 
postal
> 
address
> 
&
> 
I
> 
shall
> send
> 
you
> 
two
> 
cork
> 
sticks,
> 
enough
> 
to
> 
change
> 
the
> 
corks
> 
twice
> 
-
> if
> 
you
> 
do
> 
it
> 
carefully.
> 
Do
> 
not
> 
forget
> 
wrapping
> 
the
> 
cork
> sticks
> 
into
> 
a
> 
thin
> 
towel,
> 
carefully
> 
hammering
> 
them
> 
to
> 
oval
> size,
> 
so
> 
you
> 
can
> 
insert
> 
them
> 
vertically
> 
in
> 
their
> 
sockets
> 
on
> the
> 
horn
> 
&
> 
then
> 
cut
> 
short.
> 
If
> 
the
> 
alignment
> 
(see
> 
the
> 
inner
> marks
> 
after
> 
descrewing
> 
the
> 
valve
> 
cap)
> 
is
> 
not
> 
at
> 
100%,
> 
press
> the
> 
cork
> 
just
> 
a
> 
bit
> 
sidewards
> 
in
> 
with
> 
a
> 
metal
> 
instrument
> 
or
> a
> 
wooden
> 
instrument.
> 
That
> 
works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> post:
> 
horn@music.memphis.edu
> unsubscribe
> 
or
> 
set
> 
options
> 
at
> 
http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/sven.bring%40yahoo.se
> 




  

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RE: [Hornlist] Valve Corks

[hans]

Hello Tim, before you do anything, visit my website
www.pizka.de/Corks.html  and see how to replace them. I had
used neoprene before, but they tend to swell if in contact
with certain oils. So I changed back to the use of corks.
Self cut corks are not any solution as it is hard to get
them down to the right dimension, where 1/2 of a milimeter
can influence playing. Send me your postal address & I shall
send you two cork sticks, enough to change the corks twice -
if you do it carefully. Do not forget wrapping the cork
sticks into a thin towel, carefully hammering them to oval
size, so you can insert them vertically in their sockets on
the horn & then cut short. If the alignment (see the inner
marks after descrewing the valve cap) is not at 100%, press
the cork just a bit sidewards in with a metal instrument or
a wooden instrument. That works.





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Re: [Hornlist] Valve Corks

[Ellen Manthe]

I've bought this material from Osmun's, ready to cut to the right height and
punt in the proper place.  There are other sources, but I know that Osmun's
can tell you what would be right for your horn.  They are very helpful.  One
of my student's father received instructions on how to convert her 8D to a
string linkage from a mechanical linkage.  He had absolutely no trouble.
Now, he is an engineer, but knows little about musical instruments, be he
said the instructions were extremely easy to follow.  Try them - they will
help if they can.  No, I do not work for Osmun's or receive a discount.
They, like Pope, Brassarts, and Stuart DeHaro, among many others, are just
helpful and fantastic to deal with.  In fact, I cannot think of any horn
dealer that I have ever dealt with, who does not go out of his/her way to
help the customer.  If you have a trustworthy local dealer, try them.  They
may have either cork rolls or the Buna in stock, and might be willing to
sell you a little to see what works best on your horn.
Ellen Manthe


On 2/3/08 5:09 PM, "Luke Zyla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Go to the hardware store and buy an appropriate sized "O" ring that can be
> cut to the proper size.  This material is flexible enough to install, yet
> not so hard that it "clicks".  It is impervious to petroleum products and
> will last forever. I just purchased a Yamaha Triple horn for my son that had
> the same problem.  I changed to the "O" ring material and it works fine.
> The material I use is called "buna N".  If you have an industrial rubber
> supply store in your town, you can even by it in sheets.  This material and
> a variety of other materials is available online from McMaster-Carr.
> http://www.mcmaster.com/
> They cary just about every type of material you can imagine.  They also have
> lots of information about the hardness of the different materials and their
> resistance to chemicals.  Here is their explanation regarding hardness:
> 
> Durometer is the international standard for measuring the hardness of
> rubber, plastic, and most nonmetallic materials. The hardness of a material
> is its resistance to surface penetration. Harder materials have more wear
> resistance, but they are also less flexible. Note that an object may fall
> within more than one scale. For example, a typical shoe heel is 95 Shore OO,
> 70 Shore A, and 22 Shore D durometer.
> 
> They have a very cool chart that compares the numbers to common materials.
> 
> Good luck,
> Luke Zyla
> 2nd horn, WV Symphony Orchestra
> www.wvsymphony.org
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Tim Kecherson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Hornlist" 
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 4:55 PM
> Subject: [Hornlist] Valve Corks
> 
> 
> As I mentioned in a previous post, I have a 1970 Conn 8D.  Instead of having
> corks, it has rubber/plastic cylinders where the corks go.  However, these
> click when I finger the notes, and the valves are not aligned because of
> them.  Since I am under 21, I cannot very well go out to the local liquor
> store and buy a bottle of wine or champagne for the cork.  Where would I be
> able to get a cork for my horn?  The local music shop does not carry them.
> Thank you very much!
> 
> --
> Tim
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Re: [Hornlist] Valve Corks

[Luke Zyla]

Go to the hardware store and buy an appropriate sized "O" ring that can be 
cut to the proper size.  This material is flexible enough to install, yet 
not so hard that it "clicks".  It is impervious to petroleum products and 
will last forever. I just purchased a Yamaha Triple horn for my son that had 
the same problem.  I changed to the "O" ring material and it works fine. 
The material I use is called "buna N".  If you have an industrial rubber 
supply store in your town, you can even by it in sheets.  This material and 
a variety of other materials is available online from McMaster-Carr. 
http://www.mcmaster.com/
They cary just about every type of material you can imagine.  They also have 
lots of information about the hardness of the different materials and their 
resistance to chemicals.  Here is their explanation regarding hardness:


Durometer is the international standard for measuring the hardness of 
rubber, plastic, and most nonmetallic materials. The hardness of a material 
is its resistance to surface penetration. Harder materials have more wear 
resistance, but they are also less flexible. Note that an object may fall 
within more than one scale. For example, a typical shoe heel is 95 Shore OO, 
70 Shore A, and 22 Shore D durometer.


They have a very cool chart that compares the numbers to common materials.

Good luck,
Luke Zyla
2nd horn, WV Symphony Orchestra
www.wvsymphony.org



- Original Message - 
From: "Tim Kecherson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Hornlist" 
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 4:55 PM
Subject: [Hornlist] Valve Corks


As I mentioned in a previous post, I have a 1970 Conn 8D.  Instead of having 
corks, it has rubber/plastic cylinders where the corks go.  However, these 
click when I finger the notes, and the valves are not aligned because of 
them.  Since I am under 21, I cannot very well go out to the local liquor 
store and buy a bottle of wine or champagne for the cork.  Where would I be 
able to get a cork for my horn?  The local music shop does not carry them. 
Thank you very much!


--
Tim
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Re: [Hornlist] Valve Corks

[Jerry Houston]

Tim Kecherson wrote:
> As I mentioned in a previous post, I have a 1970 Conn 8D.  Instead of having 
> corks, it has rubber/plastic cylinders where the corks go.  However, these 
> click when I finger the notes, and the valves are not aligned because of 
> them.  Since I am under 21, I cannot very well go out to the local liquor 
> store and buy a bottle of wine or champagne for the cork.  Where would I be 
> able to get a cork for my horn?  The local music shop does not carry them.  
> Thank you very much!
>   

Hardware stores and bait shops come to mind.  Some kitchen departments
sell corks, as well, not to mention hobby shops.  Know any adults who
might save you a wine cork?  Got any restaurants nearby that serve wine?

It's not the fact that your horn has neoprene bumpers that's got it
misaligned, however.  It's that they're not properly trimmed.  Do the
valves go past alignment, or not quite as far as alignment?  If the
latter, you should be able to shave a little off the bumpers with a
razor blade (single-edge type is safest) or a utility knife.  If the
valves are going past alignment, then you need to replace them, and
*then* will probably need to trim them appropriately.

I also suspect that the clicking isn't because of the bumpers, either,
but more likely because of worn bearings or a loose stop arm screw. 
It's just that they happen to click at the exact time the stop arm hits
the bumpers, which naturally enough gives the impressing that it's
hitting those that causes the clicks. 

That 8D is almost certainly a nice enough instrument that it would be
worth a little TLC from a competent technician.
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Re: [Hornlist] Valve Corks

[YATESLAWRENCE]

Are your teachers not over 21?  :-)
 
lawrenceyates.co.uk



   
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[Hornlist] Valve Corks

[Tim Kecherson]

As I mentioned in a previous post, I have a 1970 Conn 8D.  Instead of having 
corks, it has rubber/plastic cylinders where the corks go.  However, these 
click when I finger the notes, and the valves are not aligned because of them.  
Since I am under 21, I cannot very well go out to the local liquor store and 
buy a bottle of wine or champagne for the cork.  Where would I be able to get a 
cork for my horn?  The local music shop does not carry them.  Thank you very 
much!

--
Tim
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