Re: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
Sorry, what kind of idiots are you working with ? Only an idiot of a singer can say such stupid words. The orchestra can never enter late or early, as it follows the conductor and nobody else. The singer has to fix it by singing another phrase faster to speed up or leave out a word, but needs the help of the conductor. Just a little attention sign for the next down beat, and things are fixed. But not with singers (or soloists !!), who just want to be the STAR, or just think they were a STAR. These are the worst. Not just in the light music but also in opera concert. They dont even listen to the orchestra as they are blind deaf by their own overestimation and think themselves as never-fail. And even if the orchestra comes late or early according to the view of the singer, the singer is wrong as even he or she has to follow the conductor, no matter the qualification of the conductor. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
ARG now that IS annoying, when I was a brass bander I once had a testpiece that was covered in yellow highlighter! From: Erin Block [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 18:08:25 -0800 (PST) I know we all have these problems with music, but I'll just take a moment to vent mine, as it's been driving my section crazy for the last year! I play in a small community band. While we own all the music in our library, it invariably gets passed from person to person through the years as players come and go. Some horn player several years back not only felt an important need to circle all key and time changes, many dynamic markings, accidentals, and occasionally little reminder messages to him/herself, but he or she did it all in red ink pen. Red! All over our horn music - and of course they must have rotated parts through the section all these years ago, b/c there is red ink on all parts, and for many, many pieces of music in our library. C'mon, people, we're horn players - we like to think we're among the brighter folks in the orchestra! Buy a pencil, write small, erase when you're done, and if you need to transpose, maybe think about writing it out on a little separate sheet of blank composition paper and keeping it with your music till you learn! Okay, I'm all done venting now. Thanks for putting up with it! Erin Block St. Louis, MO Dan Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 3, 2005, at 12:44 PM, Jim McDermott wrote: Obviously the music is rented. But as an amateur, if marking a note or a fingering helps me play the passage properly, I'll continue to do so. My rule is, 1 mistake is OK, but if I miss a note twice, I mark it. And no, I did not learn my transpositions, because all band music in America is transposed to F by the publishers. I have no problem at all with marking up music in whatever way allows the performer to get it right, as long as those markings are done lightly in pencil, and then ***erased completely*** before the music is returned. Way too often, I have to read music that has been permanently disfigured and made much more difficult to read by previous users. It's a matter of common courtesy (as well as a contractual obligation in most cases) to clean up rental music before it is returned. Dan Dan Phillips Professor of Horn, University of Memphis webmaster: http://music.memphis.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/ireland1006%40sbcglobal.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/pristine_%40hotmail.com _ MSN Messenger 7.5 is now out. Download it for FREE here. http://messenger.msn.co.uk ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
I had a rehearsal for a moderen ballet this morning. The other first horn - a young extra player from another good orchestra - had inserted 6/8 at every empty measure, as there was just a rest sign for a full measure. This is anoying. So I pencil inserted 6/8 for every single measure during all the movement. I hope he get the message when he plays the rehearsal tomorrow. All courtesy accidental inserted by hime were awkwardly written just smearing the page. I erased them inserted them small in clear writings as they were printed. I have not much hope that he will understand why or even wonder why his calligraphy was erased things inserted a new. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christine Ranson Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 3:32 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music ARG now that IS annoying, when I was a brass bander I once had a testpiece that was covered in yellow highlighter! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
Although copyright laws forbid unauthorized copies, a little common sense would argue that the copying of a single part is hardly worth bringing expensive legal action. I like to mark my music, but knowing that, I carry, in my case, a special mechanical pencil with 0.9mm HB lead and silicon rubber, replaceable eraser that quickly removes the very legible marks with no smear. I can keep up with the conductor changing his mind. Some of the marking I do could be considered pretty stupid, so it's important to me to remove it before I pass it in. -Original Message- From: Bill Gross [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Horn List' horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 09:03:24 -0600 Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music Taking this off in a different direction, looking at the mechanics of setting up a community based music group. One of the problems I run across is following copyright laws. We do it. The down side is the transient nature of our membership. Some folks show up for a session then for various other reasons can't make the next. We end up not letting anyone take music home to practice because parts will start to disappear. I had suggested making copies of our limited library and letting people take them home. The copyright smart people were of the opinion that this would violate the copyright. Anyone else aware of this problem and come up with a good solution? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/billbamberg%40aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
I think that nobody could reasonably object to an occasional marking *in pencil*. If I have a part which has been marked with things like warnings to watch out for a tempo change, a repeated accidental etc, then that is fine. An occasional marking of an alternate fingering is also no problem - I can use it or erase it as I choose. Warnings of errors in the printed part are great and I wouldn't want them erased by the previous user. String players frequently have parts marked with bowings. It would be crazy to have to erase all bowings from a part only for them to have to be re-inserted by the next orchestra which plays the piece. So there is precedent for useful markings to be left in the part. But there are various kinds of markings which step over this line - Markings in ink which cannot be erased - Fingerings and/or rewritten notes for every note of a transposed part. If you must rewrite a transposed part, buy yourself some MS paper and write it out separately. Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
Nobody talked about the necessary bowing markings by the fiddle players, nobody objected against occasional useful markings to help for a good performance. But I talked about wind player parts special horn parts, where often so many unnecessary markings are left. But I really do not complain about the markings, but the way they are inserted: SMEARAGE - SMEARAGE SMEARAGE again. The markings alone will not ruin the part, but SMEARAGE does it. And I repeat here, the worst are the conductors with their smearage in the scores. So for my rental material, I insist, that the orchestra buys the score rents the parts. Also, if there are recording sessions scheduled for a rental piece, they require two scores, so the sound engineer can insert the takes cuts whatever into the score. So does the conductor when prooflistening the takes. These scores cannot be used again anywhere. So they have to buy them. A bit more discipline a bit more care thought by the players, would keep rental fees low as less parts would have to be repaired or renewed. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan West Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 1:41 PM To: The Horn List Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music I think that nobody could reasonably object to an occasional marking *in pencil*. If I have a part which has been marked with things like warnings to watch out for a tempo change, a repeated accidental etc, then that is fine. An occasional marking of an alternate fingering is also no problem - I can use it or erase it as I choose. Warnings of errors in the printed part are great and I wouldn't want them erased by the previous user. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
Like most, I too learned to transpose in High School. Having just got back to playing a few years ago after a 20 year hiatus, transposition came back slowly. In that time I refused to mark my horn parts. Let me repeat MY HORN PARTS. I felt that if I did, it was like cheating. Like Erin said we are the brightest people in the orchestra. We play the most difficult instrument and without cheating. On another note, just a quarter note, if I would to put my favorite sports team's logo on a rental car, I'm sure the rental company would charge me for them to remove it. Regards, Joe -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Mansur Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 2:47 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music And let me respectfully disagree a moment. Hans did NOT say not to mark music! What he was objecting to is excess marking and markings with a pen. Marks and cues in pencil are expected and standard usage for professionals. The difference here is that the pros ERASE their rental parts when they go back to the publisher. I began learning Eb transpositions when I was in high school playing Eb horn parts. While still in HS I was introduced to the Pottag Book I Orchestral excerpts. I was not playing in an orchestra, but I was tickled pink to get these solo horn parts and start trying to do some Beethoven, Brahms, Berlioz, and Wagner excerpts I had heard on recordings. So I began figuring out that classic transposition is quite easy. And I was 15 years old at the time. A pencil is necessary equipment for rehearsals and I use one frequently. But I never had to write in an A for a C in D horn but once or twice until I saw that all the C's in D horn were concert D/s, without exception. That was Hans's point. It may be of some interest that my first horn lesson was when I was 21 years old. CORdially, Paul Mansur On Saturday, December 3, 2005, at 01:44 PM, Jim McDermott wrote: Hans, I must repectfully disgree. I often play in the pit orchestra for various community theater musicals. Obviously the music is rented. But as an amateur, if marking a note or a fingering helps me play the passage properly, I'll continue to do so. My rule is, 1 mistake is OK, but if I miss a note twice, I mark it. And no, I did not learn my transpositions, because all band music in America is transposed to F by the publishers. Jim McDermott Lake Area Community Orchestra ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/p_mansur1%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/joescarpelli%40earthlink.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
Taking this off in a different direction, looking at the mechanics of setting up a community based music group. One of the problems I run across is following copyright laws. We do it. The down side is the transient nature of our membership. Some folks show up for a session then for various other reasons can't make the next. We end up not letting anyone take music home to practice because parts will start to disappear. I had suggested making copies of our limited library and letting people take them home. The copyright smart people were of the opinion that this would violate the copyright. Anyone else aware of this problem and come up with a good solution? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
Have the librarian copy the parts, keep a log of copies that are made, and demand their return and destruction after the performance. There shouldn't be a problem with making a copy for the purpose of preserving the original as long as the originals are present for the performance, even if it's on the stand behind the marked up copy. John Baumgart -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Gross Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 9:03 AM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music Taking this off in a different direction, looking at the mechanics of setting up a community based music group. One of the problems I run across is following copyright laws. We do it. The down side is the transient nature of our membership. Some folks show up for a session then for various other reasons can't make the next. We end up not letting anyone take music home to practice because parts will start to disappear. I had suggested making copies of our limited library and letting people take them home. The copyright smart people were of the opinion that this would violate the copyright. Anyone else aware of this problem and come up with a good solution? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/baumgart%40chicagonet.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
I sometimes mark parts by using small Post-Its. They come in many colors
and sizes - you can cut the sticky part of the back away from the rest so
as to create a small piece of tape that can be easily removed. This way
you can correct a wrong note for example, not by circling the offender and
writing its correct name above the staff but by taping the truth over it
so you have no disturbance while playing it. I do this sort of thing
sometimes to mark (in RED) the beginnings of long repeats so that I don't
have to search for them. Also, in musicals, I stick a tab on the edge of
the page to find the curtain call excerpt in an instant that is taken from
10 pages back. Also, to mark word-cues so I don't have to count measures
of rest. Etc. The next user of the music can remove all of my marks with
a fingernail.
I can't remember what life was like before Post-its, hot glue and duct
tape.
I will guess that we are in a transitional phase now - as more sheet music
is digitized, it will be easier to always use clean, new parts; presumably
with corrections made, or if the group receives the electronic file, then
it can tinker with cuts, transpositions, and all other corrections easily.
Will the day come when our music stand is a flat-screen computer?
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
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post: horn@music.memphis.edu
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RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
Hello, John, that´s exactly my policy when I rent out some orchestra material. I tell the renter, I would tolerate working copies, but they must be collected after use shipped back with the original so I can destroy these copies by myself. Keeps my meterial in better order cost me nothing but putting the copies into the shredder. = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Baumgart Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 4:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music Have the librarian copy the parts, keep a log of copies that are made, and demand their return and destruction after the performance. There shouldn't be a problem with making a copy for the purpose of preserving the original as long as the originals are present for the performance, even if it's on the stand behind the marked up copy. John Baumgart -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] du] On Behalf Of Bill Gross Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 9:03 AM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music Taking this off in a different direction, looking at the mechanics of setting up a community based music group. One of the problems I run across is following copyright laws. We do it. The down side is the transient nature of our membership. Some folks show up for a session then for various other reasons can't make the next. We end up not letting anyone take music home to practice because parts will start to disappear. I had suggested making copies of our limited library and letting people take them home. The copyright smart people were of the opinion that this would violate the copyright. Anyone else aware of this problem and come up with a good solution? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/baumgart%40ch icagonet.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
But what will you do, if the singer comes in too early or
too late Oooops !! I still count every measure during
Rosenkavalier done over 200times Elektra (same), just for
safety. The singer cues are just to confirm things. Well,
sometimes you count
twentytwo-two-three-four--twentythree-two-three-four --
twentyfour-twoo-three-four , when you realize that you
should have played after twentytwo measures rest , ha, ha,
ho, ho ! But that´s life !! Worse than that are those
conductors, who have their head deep into the score for the
whole performance. They are unable to fix an early singer
entry as did Sawallisch. He knew all what could happen, so
he gave the sign-warning to the singers a few measures
early, and, voila, we go now ! That worked, but not with
these poor but mass conducting baton-aerobics, who do
everything just with their routine but without any musical
feeling except the jingling of coins, - precious coins. But
there are some hidden gems (magicians) passing by sometimes,
if we are lucky.
==
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Goldberg
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 5:35 PM
To: The Horn List
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making
music
I sometimes mark parts by using small Post-Its. They come
in many colors and sizes - you can cut the sticky part of
the back away from the rest so as to create a small piece of
tape that can be easily removed. This way you can correct a
wrong note for example, not by circling the offender and
writing its correct name above the staff but by taping the
truth over it so you have no disturbance while playing it.
I do this sort of thing sometimes to mark (in RED) the
beginnings of long repeats so that I don't have to search
for them. Also, in musicals, I stick a tab on the edge of
the page to find the curtain call excerpt in an instant that
is taken from 10 pages back. Also, to mark word-cues so I
don't have to count measures of rest. Etc. The next user
of the music can remove all of my marks with a fingernail.
I can't remember what life was like before Post-its, hot
glue and duct tape.
I will guess that we are in a transitional phase now - as
more sheet music is digitized, it will be easier to always
use clean, new parts; presumably with corrections made, or
if the group receives the electronic file, then it can
tinker with cuts, transpositions, and all other corrections
easily.
Will the day come when our music stand is a flat-screen
computer?
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
___
post: horn@music.memphis.edu
unsubscribe or set options at
http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.
de
___
post: horn@music.memphis.edu
unsubscribe or set options at
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RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
On Sun, 4 Dec 2005, Hans wrote:
But what will you do, if the singer comes in too early or too late
Oooops !! I still count every measure during Rosenkavalier done over
200times Elektra (same), just for safety. The singer cues are just to
confirm things.
It is different every time - depends partly on the conductor. Some try to
lay down the law - and then instead of the orchestra being able to jump a
bar ahead or behind immediately to get with the singer, we are out of sync
for maybe 8 bars or more while the conductor tries frantically to signal
the *singer* to make the correction. It would seem that that is the right
approach - that one person can fix the problem instead of an entire
orchestra, but that seems to be the chancier of the two approaches.
There have been a few conductors though who, knowing that we were dealing
with a wild singer, demonstrated to the orchestra beforehand their signals
when to jump ahead or behind in case of emergency. That generally worked
well, but sometimes the orchestrati play mechanically and can't/won't make
the jump. In short, when a singer comes in too early or too late, it is
not completely clear where we are at that moment. There is no 'where',
only a competition for dominance, and we hope - to put it mildly - that we
all get back together again fast and smoothly.
But back to the point - I didn't mean that writing in word cues gives me
permission to sleep on the job. I do try to stay awake until the cast
party.
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
___
post: horn@music.memphis.edu
unsubscribe or set options at
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RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
These solutions are insane. Even insane, if very prominent
conductors do that. The singer will realize immideately that
he or she is wrong fix that, but the conductor should
assist with that by give the singer a new cue where to enter
with the next phrase. But if they stick their head into the
score all times instead of having the music in their head
(score just for safety, pages turned without looking into
the page - wow, a wild story comes to mind, when I as a very
young crazy principal fixed two or three pages of the
score together with another cut, My-goodness, how helpless
was this guy with the baton, but it was my boss that time
we played Flying Dutchman . Leaving the pit we all horns
had tears in our eyes for laughter, all the pages came lose
again, as I knew how to fix them together just for one take)
They have no chance to fix things make the orchestra jump
ending in chaos for some measures at least - and blame the
orchestra later for their own helplessness.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Goldberg
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 6:57 PM
To: The Horn List
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making
music
On Sun, 4 Dec 2005, Hans wrote:
But what will you do, if the singer comes in too early or
too late
Oooops !! I still count every measure during Rosenkavalier
done over
200times Elektra (same), just for safety. The singer
cues are just
to confirm things.
It is different every time - depends partly on the
conductor. Some try to lay down the law - and then instead
of the orchestra being able to jump a bar ahead or behind
immediately to get with the singer, we are out of sync for
maybe 8 bars or more while the conductor tries frantically
to signal the *singer* to make the correction. It would
seem that that is the right approach - that one person can
fix the problem instead of an entire orchestra, but that
seems to be the chancier of the two approaches.
There have been a few conductors though who, knowing that we
were dealing with a wild singer, demonstrated to the
orchestra beforehand their signals when to jump ahead or
behind in case of emergency. That generally worked well,
but sometimes the orchestrati play mechanically and
can't/won't make the jump. In short, when a singer comes in
too early or too late, it is not completely clear where we
are at that moment. There is no 'where', only a competition
for dominance, and we hope - to put it mildly - that we all
get back together again fast and smoothly.
But back to the point - I didn't mean that writing in word
cues gives me permission to sleep on the job. I do try to
stay awake until the cast party.
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
___
post: horn@music.memphis.edu
unsubscribe or set options at
http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.
de
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Re: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
On Dec 3, 2005, at 12:44 PM, Jim McDermott wrote: Obviously the music is rented. But as an amateur, if marking a note or a fingering helps me play the passage properly, I'll continue to do so. My rule is, 1 mistake is OK, but if I miss a note twice, I mark it. And no, I did not learn my transpositions, because all band music in America is transposed to F by the publishers. I have no problem at all with marking up music in whatever way allows the performer to get it right, as long as those markings are done lightly in pencil, and then ***erased completely*** before the music is returned. Way too often, I have to read music that has been permanently disfigured and made much more difficult to read by previous users. It's a matter of common courtesy (as well as a contractual obligation in most cases) to clean up rental music before it is returned. Dan Dan Phillips Professor of Horn, University of Memphis webmaster: http://music.memphis.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
And let me respectfully disagree a moment. Hans did NOT say not to mark music! What he was objecting to is excess marking and markings with a pen. Marks and cues in pencil are expected and standard usage for professionals. The difference here is that the pros ERASE their rental parts when they go back to the publisher. I began learning Eb transpositions when I was in high school playing Eb horn parts. While still in HS I was introduced to the Pottag Book I Orchestral excerpts. I was not playing in an orchestra, but I was tickled pink to get these solo horn parts and start trying to do some Beethoven, Brahms, Berlioz, and Wagner excerpts I had heard on recordings. So I began figuring out that classic transposition is quite easy. And I was 15 years old at the time. A pencil is necessary equipment for rehearsals and I use one frequently. But I never had to write in an A for a C in D horn but once or twice until I saw that all the C's in D horn were concert D/s, without exception. That was Hans's point. It may be of some interest that my first horn lesson was when I was 21 years old. CORdially, Paul Mansur On Saturday, December 3, 2005, at 01:44 PM, Jim McDermott wrote: Hans, I must repectfully disgree. I often play in the pit orchestra for various community theater musicals. Obviously the music is rented. But as an amateur, if marking a note or a fingering helps me play the passage properly, I'll continue to do so. My rule is, 1 mistake is OK, but if I miss a note twice, I mark it. And no, I did not learn my transpositions, because all band music in America is transposed to F by the publishers. Jim McDermott Lake Area Community Orchestra ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/p_mansur1%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
A marking here, another there, no problem, but markings everywhere, nearly every second note or every accidental set twice, all smeared about. If markings are made clean clearly, no problem. But note names . And, Jim, as you play in the pit often, even as an amateur, why do you need many markings, instead (now) learning how to transpose. You learned, that band music is not the top end of the flag pole ... = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim McDermott Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 7:44 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music Hans, I must repectfully disgree. I often play in the pit orchestra for various community theater musicals. Obviously the music is rented. But as an amateur, if marking a note or a fingering helps me play the passage properly, I'll continue to do so. My rule is, 1 mistake is OK, but if I miss a note twice, I mark it. And no, I did not learn my transpositions, because all band music in America is transposed to F by the publishers. Jim McDermott Lake Area Community Orchestra ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
A few times when playing rented music for a performance the thoughtful horn player who had the part last wrote in all the fingerings to each note of a nontransposed part IN THE WRONG KEY but luckily I learned to transpose in high school and college and had no problem. I did erase those fingerings when I was done with it so the blame would not fall back to me. John Wilber ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
What about the clearly WRONG note that keeps getting corrected, erased, corrected, erased, corrected, erased until the paper wears through. Or the clearly EXTRA measure (in a reduced pit orchestra part) of a repeated bar. I actually took a white mailing label and stuck on the extra measure...no more guessing. Or the rental pit part that has been xeroxed so many times that 1/3 of the page is so black it is unreadable, not to mention the nearly unreadable manuscript of the rest of the part. Why do rental agencies allow these crappy parts. -end of rant- Not to say I do this all the time. I say if it clearly benifits the player i.e. number of bars rest in the upper corner, why bother to erase. It will most likely get penciled in again... Off to a Chamber Brass concert in the cold Iowa snow...Brrr Dan ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
I know we all have these problems with music, but I'll just take a moment to vent mine, as it's been driving my section crazy for the last year! I play in a small community band. While we own all the music in our library, it invariably gets passed from person to person through the years as players come and go. Some horn player several years back not only felt an important need to circle all key and time changes, many dynamic markings, accidentals, and occasionally little reminder messages to him/herself, but he or she did it all in red ink pen. Red! All over our horn music - and of course they must have rotated parts through the section all these years ago, b/c there is red ink on all parts, and for many, many pieces of music in our library. C'mon, people, we're horn players - we like to think we're among the brighter folks in the orchestra! Buy a pencil, write small, erase when you're done, and if you need to transpose, maybe think about writing it out on a little separate sheet of blank composition paper and keeping it with your music till you learn! Okay, I'm all done venting now. Thanks for putting up with it! Erin Block St. Louis, MO Dan Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 3, 2005, at 12:44 PM, Jim McDermott wrote: Obviously the music is rented. But as an amateur, if marking a note or a fingering helps me play the passage properly, I'll continue to do so. My rule is, 1 mistake is OK, but if I miss a note twice, I mark it. And no, I did not learn my transpositions, because all band music in America is transposed to F by the publishers. I have no problem at all with marking up music in whatever way allows the performer to get it right, as long as those markings are done lightly in pencil, and then ***erased completely*** before the music is returned. Way too often, I have to read music that has been permanently disfigured and made much more difficult to read by previous users. It's a matter of common courtesy (as well as a contractual obligation in most cases) to clean up rental music before it is returned. Dan Dan Phillips Professor of Horn, University of Memphis webmaster: http://music.memphis.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/ireland1006%40sbcglobal.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
Right done, the next renter is most thankful. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 12:25 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music A few times when playing rented music for a performance the thoughtful horn player who had the part last wrote in all the fingerings to each note of a nontransposed part IN THE WRONG KEY but luckily I learned to transpose in high school and college and had no problem. I did erase those fingerings when I was done with it so the blame would not fall back to me. John Wilber ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
Stupidity is the UNERASEABLE epidemic more, it is UNCUREABLE. We had once a very prominent conductor (conducted in Munich, Vienna, Berlin opera houses more), who insisted during the rehearsal, that we played the wron notes in this very bad only available Johann Strauss Fledermaus (The Bat) material here n Munich - and I really run on fight with him until this idiot gave up. I dont name him here as he is dead allready. (But he was not a bad conductor : RING, Arabella, nearly all big German repertory.) = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Malloy Jr Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 2:09 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music What about the clearly WRONG note that keeps getting corrected, erased, corrected, erased, corrected, erased until the paper wears through. Or the clearly EXTRA measure (in a reduced pit orchestra part) of a repeated bar. I actually took a white mailing label and stuck on the extra measure...no more guessing. Or the rental pit part that has been xeroxed so many times that 1/3 of the page is so black it is unreadable, not to mention the nearly unreadable manuscript of the rest of the part. Why do rental agencies allow these crappy parts. -end of rant- Not to say I do this all the time. I say if it clearly benifits the player i.e. number of bars rest in the upper corner, why bother to erase. It will most likely get penciled in again... Off to a Chamber Brass concert in the cold Iowa snow...Brrr Dan ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
Erin, you are old fashion like myself. When I got some problems - who has not - I wrote out my own part, which can be necessary sometimes. But today .. The younger players want everything settled before, and still then they cannot do all well (some exceptions off course !) ... They even do not realize a mistake or printing error when a sharp is missing .. Blame on the teachers . As learning these things besides horn playing is also a part of the musical education or as keeping your teeth peepee clean is part of general education ... = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erin Block Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 3:08 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music I know we all have these problems with music, but I'll just take a moment to vent mine, as it's been driving my section crazy for the last year! I play in a small community band. While we own all the music in our library, it invariably gets passed from person to person through the years as players come and go. Some horn player several years back not only felt an important need to circle all key and time changes, many dynamic markings, accidentals, and occasionally little reminder messages to him/herself, but he or she did it all in red ink pen. Red! All over our horn music - and of course they must have rotated parts through the section all these years ago, b/c there is red ink on all parts, and for many, many pieces of music in our library. C'mon, people, we're horn players - we like to think we're among the brighter folks in the orchestra! Buy a pencil, write small, erase when you're done, and if you need to transpose, maybe think about writing it out on a little separate sheet of blank composition paper and keeping it with your music till you learn! Okay, I'm all done venting now. Thanks for putting up with it! Erin Block St. Louis, MO Dan Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 3, 2005, at 12:44 PM, Jim McDermott wrote: Obviously the music is rented. But as an amateur, if marking a note or a fingering helps me play the passage properly, I'll continue to do so. My rule is, 1 mistake is OK, but if I miss a note twice, I mark it. And no, I did not learn my transpositions, because all band music in America is transposed to F by the publishers. I have no problem at all with marking up music in whatever way allows the performer to get it right, as long as those markings are done lightly in pencil, and then ***erased completely*** before the music is returned. Way too often, I have to read music that has been permanently disfigured and made much more difficult to read by previous users. It's a matter of common courtesy (as well as a contractual obligation in most cases) to clean up rental music before it is returned. Dan Dan Phillips Professor of Horn, University of Memphis webmaster: http://music.memphis.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/ireland1006%4 0sbcglobal.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
