DFSORT anomaly?
Hi all, WE are running z/OS 1.6 with no plans to upgrade because we aren't going to fork out any more for Tivoli 8.3. We also have Enterprise COBOL. This is the problem... The file was allocated Cyl,(15,5) and 16 records written to it by the COBOL program, it thus expanded to 3 volumes and lots of extents... In the same job, this file was sorted, but only 45900 records were sorted, into itself, and the rest of the records were lost. We have tried to re-create the problem by creating the multivolume file with IEBGENER... unsuccessfully... My thinking is this, and I have not found a MVS APAR stating that this might be the case, but here goes... Because of some problem / limitation in the COBOL / MVS File close routines... All three extents of the file are not known to DFSORT 3 steps lower and only at the actual end of the job, but how do I prove this. This occurred 3 times now, until we changed the allocation to Cyl,(200,50) and end up with the file on 1 volume, problem sorted? Any ideas, Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards Herbie Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
SV: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
I really like this list. :) _ Thomas Berg Specialist IT Utveckling Swedbank AB (Publ) -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] För Craddock, Chris Skickat: den 22 januari 2008 06:56 Till: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Ämne: Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? Warning: kind of a long-ish reply coming up; What exactly is wrong with the ECB/WAIT/POST mechanism? I think it has always worked great. It's got some pretty difficult limitations in cross memory mode (but it still works!), but otherwise I'm not sure where you get awful. Yeah, it works FSVO works but it is a 1960's design where the only real concern was a wait and a post without much real asynchronous behavior going on. Check the SVC numbers (1 and 2) Pretty early on in that design cycle wouldn't you say? Back then nobody thought of or even cared about all of the failure cases and there are loads of them. Here are only a few of them. Where do I start... how about the fact that an ECB is just 4 bytes (on a word boundary) of storage? There is no indication anywhere that those particular 4 bytes are really part of a serialization interface and not (say) 4 bytes in someone else's control block or working storage. When you issue a WAIT macro Mr Wait only checks that each ECB is in the right key for you to wait on it and that it does not appear to have already been posted. The big scientific check is whether the 40 bit is on. If so, he's going to just return immediately. That's why the famous quick post algorithm works. Otherwise WAIT is going to put the caller's RB into a wait state and blast X'80abcdefg' into the ECB where abcdefg is (or would be) the address of the waiting RB. Of course if that address wasn't really an ECB you have an overlay. In most (but not all) cases that would be considered a programming error so let's not quibble over it. Now if the ECB happens to be in storage that the caller didn't own (say it's owned by a parallel task) and the storage owner terminates. Oops again. Now your task is waiting on an ECB that doesn't even exist anymore and no deity could wake it up. It is literally and permanently toast and the only way to wake up the task is to detach it which tends to be kind of draconian for the work that was supposed to be running on that task. This is a fairly common error in multitasking apps where parallel tasks serialize between each other via wait/post. Now let's turn our attention to POST. Folks who routinely look at dumps (guilty yer 'onor) tend to recognize things that look like an ECB in wait status because of the X'80abcdefg' pattern. But if an ECB isn't currently in a wait, then it's just 4 bytes of storage and the contents could be anything at all. Arguably an ECB is only really an ECB when it is being waited on. Now Mr POST isn't fussy. He's kind of a lounge lizard kind of guy. He does a quick look and if the 80 bit is on, he heads off and does RB validation and assuming it really is waiting and the current post would satisfy the wait count, POST alters the RB status to indicate the RB is now ready. But if the 80 bit is off... he assumes the ECB just is not being waited on, so he blasts X'40xxyyzz' (where xxyyzz is the post code you supplied) into the ECB - again, see the quick-post code to grasp the deep intelligence that's used. So if you point your POST macro at -any- 4 bytes (in your own key, assuming you're not authorized, but otherwise just any old 4 bytes you want to nuke) and good ol' Mr POST will cheerfully blast a X'40xxyyzz' into it for you. No muss no fuss and absolutely no way to say oops. But wait, there's more. Since there's literally no indication ANYWHERE that those 4 bytes are, or ever were an ECB, they could legitimately be asynchronously posted by some other unit of work long after the thrill is gone. So let's say that function X has called some asynchronous service and passed the address of 4 bytes of private storage as an ECB. But assume for grins and giggles that the async service can end with or without posting that ECB and/or that our function X can simply decide to bail out and not wait on the ECB at all. What happens next and why should you care? Presumably that ECB is going to get nailed sooner or later. So now there's a reasonable certainty that 4 innocent bytes (probably belonging to some other function Y by now) are going to get vaporized if/when that async service call completes. Ooops. That's another very common cause of those mysterious overlay problems. And then there's our friend Mr Cross-Memory Post. He's been the cause of many a lost system. Now you're not just pointing at 4 random bytes in your own address space, you have a whole system full of potential victim address spaces. That's what
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
Van Dalsen, Herbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Hi all, WE are running z/OS 1.6 with no plans to upgrade because we aren't going to fork out any more for Tivoli 8.3. We also have Enterprise COBOL. This is the problem... The file was allocated Cyl,(15,5) and 16 records written to it by the COBOL program, it thus expanded to 3 volumes and lots of extents... In the same job, this file was sorted, but only 45900 records were sorted, into itself, and the rest of the records were lost. We have tried to re-create the problem by creating the multivolume file with IEBGENER... unsuccessfully... My thinking is this, and I have not found a MVS APAR stating that this might be the case, but here goes... Because of some problem / limitation in the COBOL / MVS File close routines... All three extents of the file are not known to DFSORT 3 steps lower and only at the actual end of the job, but how do I prove this. This occurred 3 times now, until we changed the allocation to Cyl,(200,50) and end up with the file on 1 volume, problem sorted? Any ideas, Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards Herbie I understand the DFSORT step follows the Cobol step, and sorts into the same dataset? Insert an IEBGENER step to make a copy of the file from the Cobol program and see what IEBGENER thinks of the dataset. Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
Kees, That is actually that happens... Step1 creates the file, Step2 Makes a backup, using IDCAMS, and the backup does have 16000 records, and step3 does the sort... very weird... //DEL005 EXEC PGM=IEFBR14 //DD3 DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(MOD,DELETE,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(TRK,0) //* //NCPO511 EXEC PGM=NCPO511 //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //IPMOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(CYL,(15,5)), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //* //IDCAM020 EXEC PGM=IDCAMS //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //FILEIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //FILEOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT.BACKUP(+1), // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA, // SPACE=(CYL,(15,5),RLSE), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //SYSINDD * REPRO INFILE(FILEIN) OUTFILE(FILEOUT) - REPLACE //* //SORT01 EXEC PGM=SORT //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //SORTIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SORTOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SYSINDD * OPTION COPY INREC IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,1426,2,CH,EQ,C'48'), OVERLAY=(132:C'5',134:C'S',888:C'CT6')), IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,150,4,ZD,EQ,6010), OVERLAY=(54:+12,TO=ZD,LENGTH=2)) Regards Herbie Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 01:31:45 -0500, Robert A. Rosenberg wrote: At 1:38 PM -0600 on 1/21/08, Paul Gilmartin wrote about Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?: When the mother needs the daughter's assistance, it WAITs on the second ECB, clears it, and POSTS the first. ONLY IF the mother task has nothing else it can do while it is waiting for the daughter to be ready to do something for it. Otherwise the mother task just periodically tests ECB2 and does its POST once ECB1 has been WAIT'ed on by the daughter. By the protocol I described, the daughter POSTs ECB2 only after it has cleared ECB1 and is ready to WAIT on ECB1. There is no need for the mother task then to make any decision based on the state of ECB1 -- it may POST either before or after the daughter WAITs. And I deliberately omitted any mention of WAIT on multiple ECBs and EVENTS, only partly because I'm unfamiliar with them. Interestingly, UNIX has a very similar wait() function which waits only on completion of daughter processes. And I had to submit a PMR on incorrect operation of Unix System Services waitpid(), which operated correctly if issued before the daughter process terminated, but gave incorrrect results if the daughter terminated before the mother issued the waitpid(). -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 01/21/2008 at 11:10 AM, Paul Gilmartin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I have believed, and other updates to this thread appear to concur, that WAIT/POST are older than CS. At some time, then, WAIT/POST code must have used some other locking mechanism. That much is true. OS/360 only supported one MP, and used TS for 65MP. So, after CS first became available there may have been some interval before it was reliable to use CS to bypass POST. Neither OS/VS1 nor OS/VS2 R1 (SVS) supported an MP. I understand that during a WAIT, bits 1-31 of the ECB hold the address of a control block. If that control block resides above the Line, There's too much code that relies on the existing RB pointers for that to be plausible. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] t... Van Dalsen, Herbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Kees, That is actually that happens... Step1 creates the file, Step2 Makes a backup, using IDCAMS, and the backup does have 16000 records, and step3 does the sort... very weird... //DEL005 EXEC PGM=IEFBR14 //DD3 DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(MOD,DELETE,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(TRK,0) //* //NCPO511 EXEC PGM=NCPO511 //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //IPMOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(CYL,(15,5)), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //* //IDCAM020 EXEC PGM=IDCAMS //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //FILEIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //FILEOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT.BACKUP(+1), // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA, // SPACE=(CYL,(15,5),RLSE), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //SYSINDD * REPRO INFILE(FILEIN) OUTFILE(FILEOUT) - REPLACE //* //SORT01 EXEC PGM=SORT //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //SORTIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SORTOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SYSINDD * OPTION COPY INREC IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,1426,2,CH,EQ,C'48'), OVERLAY=(132:C'5',134:C'S',888:C'CT6')), IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,150,4,ZD,EQ,6010), OVERLAY=(54:+12,TO=ZD,LENGTH=2)) Regards Herbie I really wonder if it possible to make Sort to this, with sortin and sortout being the same dataset. Make sortout a different dataset and see what happens. And/or check the manual for the validity of this sortstep. Kees. Or wait a few hours until the DFSort support team has woken up and read their mail. Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
Kees, What bugs me is the following... Whether we have 90,000 of 160,000 records, the final number remains Display from COBOL PGM... T735 WRITTEN = 050634 Display from DFSORT...RECORDS - IN: 45900, OUT: 45900 Display from COBOL PGM... T735 WRITTEN = 052687 Display from DFSORT...ICE054I 0 RECORDS - IN: 45900, OUT: 45900 Regards Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 12:16 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] t... Van Dalsen, Herbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Kees, That is actually that happens... Step1 creates the file, Step2 Makes a backup, using IDCAMS, and the backup does have 16000 records, and step3 does the sort... very weird... //DEL005 EXEC PGM=IEFBR14 //DD3 DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(MOD,DELETE,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(TRK,0) //* //NCPO511 EXEC PGM=NCPO511 //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //IPMOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(CYL,(15,5)), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //* //IDCAM020 EXEC PGM=IDCAMS //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //FILEIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //FILEOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT.BACKUP(+1), // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA, // SPACE=(CYL,(15,5),RLSE), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //SYSINDD * REPRO INFILE(FILEIN) OUTFILE(FILEOUT) - REPLACE //* //SORT01 EXEC PGM=SORT //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //SORTIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SORTOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SYSINDD * OPTION COPY INREC IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,1426,2,CH,EQ,C'48'), OVERLAY=(132:C'5',134:C'S',888:C'CT6')), IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,150,4,ZD,EQ,6010), OVERLAY=(54:+12,TO=ZD,LENGTH=2)) Regards Herbie I really wonder if it possible to make Sort to this, with sortin and sortout being the same dataset. Make sortout a different dataset and see what happens. And/or check the manual for the validity of this sortstep. Kees. Or wait a few hours until the DFSort support team has woken up and read their mail. Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
Van Dalsen, Herbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Kees, That is actually that happens... Step1 creates the file, Step2 Makes a backup, using IDCAMS, and the backup does have 16000 records, and step3 does the sort... very weird... //DEL005 EXEC PGM=IEFBR14 //DD3 DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(MOD,DELETE,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(TRK,0) //* //NCPO511 EXEC PGM=NCPO511 //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //IPMOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(CYL,(15,5)), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //* //IDCAM020 EXEC PGM=IDCAMS //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //FILEIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //FILEOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT.BACKUP(+1), // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA, // SPACE=(CYL,(15,5),RLSE), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //SYSINDD * REPRO INFILE(FILEIN) OUTFILE(FILEOUT) - REPLACE //* //SORT01 EXEC PGM=SORT //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //SORTIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SORTOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SYSINDD * OPTION COPY INREC IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,1426,2,CH,EQ,C'48'), OVERLAY=(132:C'5',134:C'S',888:C'CT6')), IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,150,4,ZD,EQ,6010), OVERLAY=(54:+12,TO=ZD,LENGTH=2)) Regards Herbie I really wonder if it possible to make Sort to this, with sortin and sortout being the same dataset. Make sortout a different dataset and see what happens. And/or check the manual for the validity of this sortstep. Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: New Mainframes coming in February
I don't quite understand the confusion either between BC and EC. I always kept them straight by remembering that B is before E in the alphabet, so therefore the BC is the smaller one. Also, you can think B for Basic. Eric Timothy Sipples [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ted, what are the confusing parts about EC and BC? It should be very simple: there are two pieces of hardware. The BC starts at 26 MIPS of CP capacity and goes up to almost 1,800 per frame. The EC starts at about 200 and goes up to nearly 18,000. (There's plenty of overlap between the two so you have room to grow.) If the BC provides enough capacity, that's what you buy, otherwise the EC is available. You can upgrade a BC to an EC. Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Eric Bielefeld Systems Programmer Aviva USA Des Moines, Iowa 515-645-5153 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: New Mainframes coming in February
Mark, I think the word is scalability... If you have a business that is growing at the pace of 26 MIPS per year, the BC is for you, which means you can go up with smaller increments not having the ISV's crippling your cash flow because you was forced to go to a MSU100 from the MSU50 you had, even though you might only reach the need for that sort of capacity 8 months down the line... We tried to get the ISV's to give us the same as IBM... usage base with SCRT reports... I leave it to your imagination... Regards Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 05:50 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: New Mainframes coming in February I have found that my company (before downsizing me) was totally confused with the EC/BC determinations. I wish IBM would try to simplify their offerings. I've dealt with their marketting cr*p for 27 years, and I find their distintions only make sense to IBM sales. Ted, what are the confusing parts about EC and BC? It should be very simple: there are two pieces of hardware. The BC starts at 26 MIPS of CP capacity and goes up to almost 1,800 per frame. The EC starts at about 200 and goes up to nearly 18,000. (There's plenty of overlap between the two so you have room to grow.) If the BC provides enough capacity, that's what you buy, otherwise the EC is available. You can upgrade a BC to an EC. Both run the same software portfolio. Both deliver mainframe qualities of service -- both are 100% genuine mainframes. (The EC always has at least two spare processors, while the BC lets you choose whether to have spares or not. The EC does have an optional feature available to let you replace a whole processor book while the machine continues to operate, but this is perhaps academic if you have Parallel Sysplex.) You can stuff more memory inside an EC, but the BC still offers lots. No surprise that the EC is physically about twice the size of the BC. I have heard about some confusion out there about certain things, but EC v. BC is a new one, so I'm curious to hear more about that. I think ever since the z800 came out 5 or 6 years ago this two machine strategy has been in place, and it hasn't changed fundamentally. The EC and BC are round #3 of that strategy, after round #2 (z990/z890). In all three rounds the bigger one debuted first and the smaller one second. - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? (1
You can be certain that POST will always support the CS quick-post protocol and the LOCAL LOCK. I'm curious, as nothing pops to mind: has there been any case where the serialization of a documented programming interface has changed? Maybe I should limit my question to z/OS BCP where compatibility tends to be more of a gospel than elsewhere. By the way, the slightly more complete protocol is: -- Before anyone could possibly wait on it or post it, someone must make sure the ECB is zero (or at least has bits 0 and 1 zero). -- Then post and wait, or wait and post -- Waiter wakes up, clears the ECB, then does its stuff (posssibly going back to wait). Waiter should not do its stuff and then clear the ECB. Peter Relson z/OS Core Technology Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
I told you: you can rely on the DFSort team to react promptly. Great service! Kees. David Betten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] om... Herbie, Send the sysout from your job directly to me ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and I'll take a look. We may need you to open an ETR on this but let me take a look first. Have a nice day, Dave Betten DFSORT Development, Performance Lead IBM Corporation email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DFSORT/MVSontheweb at http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort/ IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 01/22/2008 07:23:16 AM: Kees, What bugs me is the following... Whether we have 90,000 of 160,000 records, the final number remains Display from COBOL PGM... T735 WRITTEN = 050634 Display from DFSORT...RECORDS - IN: 45900, OUT: 45900 Display from COBOL PGM... T735 WRITTEN = 052687 Display from DFSORT...ICE054I 0 RECORDS - IN: 45900, OUT: 45900 Regards Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 12:16 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] t... Van Dalsen, Herbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Kees, That is actually that happens... Step1 creates the file, Step2 Makes a backup, using IDCAMS, and the backup does have 16000 records, and step3 does the sort... very weird... //DEL005 EXEC PGM=IEFBR14 //DD3 DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(MOD,DELETE,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(TRK,0) //* //NCPO511 EXEC PGM=NCPO511 //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //IPMOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(CYL,(15,5)), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //* //IDCAM020 EXEC PGM=IDCAMS //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //FILEIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //FILEOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT.BACKUP(+1), // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA, // SPACE=(CYL,(15,5),RLSE), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //SYSINDD * REPRO INFILE(FILEIN) OUTFILE(FILEOUT) - REPLACE //* //SORT01 EXEC PGM=SORT //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //SORTIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SORTOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SYSINDD * OPTION COPY INREC IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,1426,2,CH,EQ,C'48'), OVERLAY=(132:C'5',134:C'S',888:C'CT6')), IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,150,4,ZD,EQ,6010), OVERLAY=(54:+12,TO=ZD,LENGTH=2)) Regards Herbie I really wonder if it possible to make Sort to this, with sortin and sortout being the same dataset. Make sortout a different dataset and see what happens. And/or check the manual for the validity of this sortstep. Kees. Or wait a few hours until the DFSort support team has woken up and read their mail. Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA),
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
That was my initial thinking, but I did not want to cloud anyone else's thinking... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shedlock, George Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 01:05 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? Is it possible that the COBOL program is not closing the file and therefore any additional extents are not reflected in the VTOC / Catalog entry? George Shedlock Jr AEGON Information Technology AEGON USA 502-560-3541 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Van Dalsen, Herbie Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 5:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: DFSORT anomaly? Hi all, WE are running z/OS 1.6 with no plans to upgrade because we aren't going to fork out any more for Tivoli 8.3. We also have Enterprise COBOL. This is the problem... The file was allocated Cyl,(15,5) and 16 records written to it by the COBOL program, it thus expanded to 3 volumes and lots of extents... In the same job, this file was sorted, but only 45900 records were sorted, into itself, and the rest of the records were lost. We have tried to re-create the problem by creating the multivolume file with IEBGENER... unsuccessfully... My thinking is this, and I have not found a MVS APAR stating that this might be the case, but here goes... Because of some problem / limitation in the COBOL / MVS File close routines... All three extents of the file are not known to DFSORT 3 steps lower and only at the actual end of the job, but how do I prove this. This occurred 3 times now, until we changed the allocation to Cyl,(200,50) and end up with the file on 1 volume, problem sorted? Any ideas, Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards Herbie Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
Thanks Kees, We came up with a similar idea about the same time you sent the previous email about the separate in/out, although I did not want to bite on it as a cause because I have seen sort inside COBOL programs using the same in/out. Will be interesting to see where this is going... Regards Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 01:05 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? I told you: you can rely on the DFSort team to react promptly. Great service! Kees. David Betten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] om... Herbie, Send the sysout from your job directly to me ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and I'll take a look. We may need you to open an ETR on this but let me take a look first. Have a nice day, Dave Betten DFSORT Development, Performance Lead IBM Corporation email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DFSORT/MVSontheweb at http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort/ IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 01/22/2008 07:23:16 AM: Kees, What bugs me is the following... Whether we have 90,000 of 160,000 records, the final number remains Display from COBOL PGM... T735 WRITTEN = 050634 Display from DFSORT...RECORDS - IN: 45900, OUT: 45900 Display from COBOL PGM... T735 WRITTEN = 052687 Display from DFSORT...ICE054I 0 RECORDS - IN: 45900, OUT: 45900 Regards Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 12:16 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] t... Van Dalsen, Herbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Kees, That is actually that happens... Step1 creates the file, Step2 Makes a backup, using IDCAMS, and the backup does have 16000 records, and step3 does the sort... very weird... //DEL005 EXEC PGM=IEFBR14 //DD3 DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(MOD,DELETE,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(TRK,0) //* //NCPO511 EXEC PGM=NCPO511 //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //IPMOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(CYL,(15,5)), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //* //IDCAM020 EXEC PGM=IDCAMS //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //FILEIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //FILEOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT.BACKUP(+1), // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA, // SPACE=(CYL,(15,5),RLSE), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //SYSINDD * REPRO INFILE(FILEIN) OUTFILE(FILEOUT) - REPLACE //* //SORT01 EXEC PGM=SORT //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //SORTIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SORTOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SYSINDD * OPTION COPY INREC IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,1426,2,CH,EQ,C'48'), OVERLAY=(132:C'5',134:C'S',888:C'CT6')), IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,150,4,ZD,EQ,6010), OVERLAY=(54:+12,TO=ZD,LENGTH=2)) Regards Herbie I really wonder if it possible to make Sort to this, with sortin and sortout being the same dataset. Make sortout a different dataset and see what happens. And/or check the manual for the validity of this sortstep. Kees. Or wait a few hours until the DFSort support team has woken up and read their mail. Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 **
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
Herbie, Send the sysout from your job directly to me ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and I'll take a look. We may need you to open an ETR on this but let me take a look first. Have a nice day, Dave Betten DFSORT Development, Performance Lead IBM Corporation email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DFSORT/MVSontheweb at http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort/ IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 01/22/2008 07:23:16 AM: Kees, What bugs me is the following... Whether we have 90,000 of 160,000 records, the final number remains Display from COBOL PGM... T735 WRITTEN = 050634 Display from DFSORT...RECORDS - IN: 45900, OUT: 45900 Display from COBOL PGM... T735 WRITTEN = 052687 Display from DFSORT...ICE054I 0 RECORDS - IN: 45900, OUT: 45900 Regards Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 12:16 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] t... Van Dalsen, Herbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Kees, That is actually that happens... Step1 creates the file, Step2 Makes a backup, using IDCAMS, and the backup does have 16000 records, and step3 does the sort... very weird... //DEL005 EXEC PGM=IEFBR14 //DD3 DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(MOD,DELETE,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(TRK,0) //* //NCPO511 EXEC PGM=NCPO511 //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //IPMOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(CYL,(15,5)), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //* //IDCAM020 EXEC PGM=IDCAMS //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //FILEIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //FILEOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT.BACKUP(+1), // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA, // SPACE=(CYL,(15,5),RLSE), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //SYSINDD * REPRO INFILE(FILEIN) OUTFILE(FILEOUT) - REPLACE //* //SORT01 EXEC PGM=SORT //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //SORTIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SORTOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SYSINDD * OPTION COPY INREC IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,1426,2,CH,EQ,C'48'), OVERLAY=(132:C'5',134:C'S',888:C'CT6')), IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,150,4,ZD,EQ,6010), OVERLAY=(54:+12,TO=ZD,LENGTH=2)) Regards Herbie I really wonder if it possible to make Sort to this, with sortin and sortout being the same dataset. Make sortout a different dataset and see what happens. And/or check the manual for the validity of this sortstep. Kees. Or wait a few hours until the DFSort support team has woken up and read their mail. Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
Is it possible that the COBOL program is not closing the file and therefore any additional extents are not reflected in the VTOC / Catalog entry? George Shedlock Jr AEGON Information Technology AEGON USA 502-560-3541 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Van Dalsen, Herbie Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 5:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: DFSORT anomaly? Hi all, WE are running z/OS 1.6 with no plans to upgrade because we aren't going to fork out any more for Tivoli 8.3. We also have Enterprise COBOL. This is the problem... The file was allocated Cyl,(15,5) and 16 records written to it by the COBOL program, it thus expanded to 3 volumes and lots of extents... In the same job, this file was sorted, but only 45900 records were sorted, into itself, and the rest of the records were lost. We have tried to re-create the problem by creating the multivolume file with IEBGENER... unsuccessfully... My thinking is this, and I have not found a MVS APAR stating that this might be the case, but here goes... Because of some problem / limitation in the COBOL / MVS File close routines... All three extents of the file are not known to DFSORT 3 steps lower and only at the actual end of the job, but how do I prove this. This occurred 3 times now, until we changed the allocation to Cyl,(200,50) and end up with the file on 1 volume, problem sorted? Any ideas, Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards Herbie Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? (1
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:00:52 -0500, Peter Relson wrote: You can be certain that POST will always support the CS quick-post protocol and the LOCAL LOCK. OK. I'll be confident. But why is this not documented in the Assembler Services Reference? Interestingly, there, I see for POST: # 51.1.6 z/OS V1R9.0 MVS Assembler Services Reference IAR-XCT __ 51.1.6 Performance Implications None. I would consider it at least a performance implication that POST is inferior to CS conditionally bypassing POST. -- Waiter wakes up, clears the ECB, then does its stuff (posssibly going back to wait). Waiter should not do its stuff and then clear the ECB. (I did say clear the ECB before POSTing the other task, didn't I?) That's should, not must. And why not? It can't really matter, because even if the code is the minimal: WAIT L R1,ECBPreserve condition code XCECB,ECB Clear ECB for next cycle ... there's still the possibility that the waiter will lose control and some other task be dispatched between the WAIT and the XC. Is there any hazard in another task's (or the same task's) being able to observe the ECB with the POST bit set? If the concern is that the path from WAIT to XC may be so long that the waiter misses a POST by the other task during that interval, the design is wrong. The coder mustn't (not shouldn't) count on winning that race. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
What confused me though was why could IDCAMS copy the whole file to a backup? Regards Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Van Dalsen, Herbie Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 01:20 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? That was my initial thinking, but I did not want to cloud anyone else's thinking... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shedlock, George Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 01:05 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? Is it possible that the COBOL program is not closing the file and therefore any additional extents are not reflected in the VTOC / Catalog entry? George Shedlock Jr AEGON Information Technology AEGON USA 502-560-3541 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Van Dalsen, Herbie Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 5:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: DFSORT anomaly? Hi all, WE are running z/OS 1.6 with no plans to upgrade because we aren't going to fork out any more for Tivoli 8.3. We also have Enterprise COBOL. This is the problem... The file was allocated Cyl,(15,5) and 16 records written to it by the COBOL program, it thus expanded to 3 volumes and lots of extents... In the same job, this file was sorted, but only 45900 records were sorted, into itself, and the rest of the records were lost. We have tried to re-create the problem by creating the multivolume file with IEBGENER... unsuccessfully... My thinking is this, and I have not found a MVS APAR stating that this might be the case, but here goes... Because of some problem / limitation in the COBOL / MVS File close routines... All three extents of the file are not known to DFSORT 3 steps lower and only at the actual end of the job, but how do I prove this. This occurred 3 times now, until we changed the allocation to Cyl,(200,50) and end up with the file on 1 volume, problem sorted? Any ideas, Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards Herbie Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Relson) writes: You can be certain that POST will always support the CS quick-post protocol and the LOCAL LOCK. re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#50 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? as stated in the above post ... the principles of operation wording is from over 35yrs ago ... charlie had invented the compareswap instruction at the science center while doing fine-grain lock for cp67 ... and the pok favorite son operating system people had rejected it ... i.e. the testset was more than adequate for the global kernel spin-lock multiprocessor support from 360 ... mention of global spin-lock http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#58 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? the challenge given the science center http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech was come up with example uses for compareswap instruction ... other than (multiprocessor) locking operation ... some discussion http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#58 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? i.e. the compareswap instruction can be used for atomic updates for whole class of operations w/o requiring locking operation (which would typically also require supervisor call into the kernel to have uninterruptable operation ... as a means of simulating atomic update). as mentioned in the above analogy with dbms financial transaction and optimistic operation ... that avoids lock ... if certain original conditions continue to hold when the transaction changes are actually made permanent. so the wording in the principles of operation was from the stand-point that the pok favorite son operating system people still had to understand the implications of how compareswap instruction could be used ... and then actually have the changes permeate their implementation. my familiarity with cp67 dates back to when 3 people from the science center http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech came out to install cp67 at the univ the last week of jan68 (40yrs ago this week) one might claim that maybe that its time to update that 35+yr old perspective in the principles of operation compareswap writeup. A.6 Multiprogramming and Multiprocessing Examples http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/A.6?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03DT=20040504121320 other posts in this thread: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#31 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#47 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#48 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#51 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#60 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? for some topic drift ... related to dbms operation ... misc. posts about the original relational/sql project http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#systemr and transcriptions of '95 SQL reunion http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/SQL_Reunion_95/index.html there is mention of compareswap in the discussion about use for locking http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/SQL_Reunion_95/sqlr95-Shoot-ou.html#Index311 in this session: http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/SQL_Reunion_95/sqlr95-Shoot-ou.html however, the speculation about the origin of compareswap instruction was wrong (i.e. compareswap was chosen because CAS are charlie's initials). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: New Mainframes coming in February
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 01/21/2008 at 04:12 PM, Paul Gilmartin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Whose trademark is Firewire? I believe that it's an Apple® trademark for an IEEE standard that Apples does not own. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
IBM Bookmanager Library Server
Does anyone have a url for the above that contains the bookshelf for DB2 Version 9 for z/OS. I've got the following one but it only goes up to DB2 Version 8 - http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/handheld/Connected/library Jim McAlpine -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
I haven't seen any job output yet but I wanted to share this information from DFSORT Application Programming Guide *** For a copy application, the SORTIN data set should not be the same as the SORTOUT data set or any OUTFIL data set because this can cause lost or incorrect data or unpredictable results. *** Frank probably knows more about this but it makes sense to me why we could have problems for COPY. When we do a SORT, all of the records from SORTIN need to be read before we can write anything to SORTOUT. This is because that last record read could potentially be the first record written. However, when we do a COPY, we can start writing to SORTOUT immediately. I would just try changing your sort step to write a new dataset and see what the results are. Have a nice day, Dave Betten DFSORT Development, Performance Lead IBM Corporation email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1-240-715-4655, tie line 268-1499 DFSORT/MVSontheweb at http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort/ IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 01/22/2008 08:36:49 AM: What confused me though was why could IDCAMS copy the whole file to a backup? Regards Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Van Dalsen, Herbie Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 01:20 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? That was my initial thinking, but I did not want to cloud anyone else's thinking... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shedlock, George Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 01:05 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? Is it possible that the COBOL program is not closing the file and therefore any additional extents are not reflected in the VTOC / Catalog entry? George Shedlock Jr AEGON Information Technology AEGON USA 502-560-3541 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Van Dalsen, Herbie Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 5:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: DFSORT anomaly? Hi all, WE are running z/OS 1.6 with no plans to upgrade because we aren't going to fork out any more for Tivoli 8.3. We also have Enterprise COBOL. This is the problem... The file was allocated Cyl,(15,5) and 16 records written to it by the COBOL program, it thus expanded to 3 volumes and lots of extents... In the same job, this file was sorted, but only 45900 records were sorted, into itself, and the rest of the records were lost. We have tried to re-create the problem by creating the multivolume file with IEBGENER... unsuccessfully... My thinking is this, and I have not found a MVS APAR stating that this might be the case, but here goes... Because of some problem / limitation in the COBOL / MVS File close routines... All three extents of the file are not known to DFSORT 3 steps lower and only at the actual end of the job, but how do I prove this. This occurred 3 times now, until we changed the allocation to Cyl,(200,50) and end up with the file on 1 volume, problem sorted? Any ideas, Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards Herbie Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co.
Re: IBM Bookmanager Library Server
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:46:17 +, Jim McAlpine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone have a url for the above that contains the bookshelf for DB2 Version 9 for z/OS. I've got the following one but it only goes up to DB2 Version 8 - http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi- bin/bookmgr_OS390/handheld/Connected/library Jim McAlpine -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr/Shelves/dsnshka1 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
Sorry for the slightly off-topic question, but how come this persons posts are always so complicated to work through with all of the pieces and URL links? Is it the function of how they are posting (i.e. perhaps online with certain options), or is this a manual effort? I'm hoping to not spark a long debate. I'm hoping it's just a one or the other answer. David Logan -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anne Lynn Wheeler Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 7:18 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Relson) writes: You can be certain that POST will always support the CS quick-post protocol and the LOCAL LOCK. re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#50 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? as stated in the above post ... the principles of operation wording is from over 35yrs ago ... charlie had invented the compareswap instruction at the science center while doing fine-grain lock for cp67 ... and the pok favorite son operating system people had rejected it ... i.e. the testset was more than adequate for the global kernel spin-lock multiprocessor support from 360 ... mention of global spin-lock http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#58 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? the challenge given the science center http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech was come up with example uses for compareswap instruction ... other than (multiprocessor) locking operation ... some discussion http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#58 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? i.e. the compareswap instruction can be used for atomic updates for whole class of operations w/o requiring locking operation (which would typically also require supervisor call into the kernel to have uninterruptable operation ... as a means of simulating atomic update). as mentioned in the above analogy with dbms financial transaction and optimistic operation ... that avoids lock ... if certain original conditions continue to hold when the transaction changes are actually made permanent. so the wording in the principles of operation was from the stand-point that the pok favorite son operating system people still had to understand the implications of how compareswap instruction could be used ... and then actually have the changes permeate their implementation. my familiarity with cp67 dates back to when 3 people from the science center http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech came out to install cp67 at the univ the last week of jan68 (40yrs ago this week) one might claim that maybe that its time to update that 35+yr old perspective in the principles of operation compareswap writeup. A.6 Multiprogramming and Multiprocessing Examples http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/A.6?SHEL F=DZ9ZBK03DT=20040504121320 other posts in this thread: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#31 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#47 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#48 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#51 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#60 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? for some topic drift ... related to dbms operation ... misc. posts about the original relational/sql project http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#systemr and transcriptions of '95 SQL reunion http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/SQL_Reunion_95/index.html there is mention of compareswap in the discussion about use for locking http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/SQL_Reunion_95/sqlr95-Shoot-ou.html#Index311 in this session: http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/SQL_Reunion_95/sqlr95-Shoot-ou.html however, the speculation about the origin of compareswap instruction was wrong (i.e. compareswap was chosen because CAS are charlie's initials). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Bookmanager Library Server
Here it is again !!! http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr/Shelves/dsnshka1 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFHSM QUESTION : ATTEMPTING TO FIND MIGRAT2 VOLSER
You can look at the FSR record (type 5) in SMF and it'll have the info. Also you should look at the archive because there was a lot of discussion about corrupted restores, not recall, as best as I can remember. Sometimes users mix up restore and recall.. Jack Kelly 202-502-2390 (Office) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
David, I was under the impression that Anne Lynn Wheeler is in fact some sort of Turing machine inspired effort and not a real person at all. It seems to get triggered every once in a while on certain keywords and then inserts a load of ancient history into the related post.but then again that could describe quite a few board members :-) Rob Scott Rocket Software, Inc 275 Grove Street Newton, MA 02466 617-614-2305 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Logan Sent: 22 January 2008 14:34 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? Sorry for the slightly off-topic question, but how come this persons posts are always so complicated to work through with all of the pieces and URL links? Is it the function of how they are posting (i.e. perhaps online with certain options), or is this a manual effort? I'm hoping to not spark a long debate. I'm hoping it's just a one or the other answer. David Logan -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anne Lynn Wheeler Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 7:18 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Relson) writes: You can be certain that POST will always support the CS quick-post protocol and the LOCAL LOCK. re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#50 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? as stated in the above post ... the principles of operation wording is from over 35yrs ago ... charlie had invented the compareswap instruction at the science center while doing fine-grain lock for cp67 ... and the pok favorite son operating system people had rejected it ... i.e. the testset was more than adequate for the global kernel spin-lock multiprocessor support from 360 ... mention of global spin-lock http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#58 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? the challenge given the science center http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech was come up with example uses for compareswap instruction ... other than (multiprocessor) locking operation ... some discussion http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#58 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? i.e. the compareswap instruction can be used for atomic updates for whole class of operations w/o requiring locking operation (which would typically also require supervisor call into the kernel to have uninterruptable operation ... as a means of simulating atomic update). as mentioned in the above analogy with dbms financial transaction and optimistic operation ... that avoids lock ... if certain original conditions continue to hold when the transaction changes are actually made permanent. so the wording in the principles of operation was from the stand-point that the pok favorite son operating system people still had to understand the implications of how compareswap instruction could be used ... and then actually have the changes permeate their implementation. my familiarity with cp67 dates back to when 3 people from the science center http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech came out to install cp67 at the univ the last week of jan68 (40yrs ago this week) one might claim that maybe that its time to update that 35+yr old perspective in the principles of operation compareswap writeup. A.6 Multiprogramming and Multiprocessing Examples http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/A.6?SHEL F=DZ9ZBK03DT=20040504121320 other posts in this thread: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#31 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#47 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#48 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#51 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#60 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? for some topic drift ... related to dbms operation ... misc. posts about the original relational/sql project http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#systemr and transcriptions of '95 SQL reunion http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/SQL_Reunion_95/index.html there is mention of compareswap in the discussion about use for locking http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/SQL_Reunion_95/sqlr95-Shoot-ou.html#Index311 in this session: http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/SQL_Reunion_95/sqlr95-Shoot-ou.html however, the speculation about the origin of compareswap instruction was wrong (i.e. compareswap was chosen because CAS are charlie's initials). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
Thanks for that, The only problem that I have is the fact that 45900 seems to be some sort of a threshold, and that if you have less than 45900 records to sort/copy it does not happen. Regards Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Betten Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 02:54 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? I haven't seen any job output yet but I wanted to share this information from DFSORT Application Programming Guide *** For a copy application, the SORTIN data set should not be the same as the SORTOUT data set or any OUTFIL data set because this can cause lost or incorrect data or unpredictable results. *** Frank probably knows more about this but it makes sense to me why we could have problems for COPY. When we do a SORT, all of the records from SORTIN need to be read before we can write anything to SORTOUT. This is because that last record read could potentially be the first record written. However, when we do a COPY, we can start writing to SORTOUT immediately. I would just try changing your sort step to write a new dataset and see what the results are. Have a nice day, Dave Betten DFSORT Development, Performance Lead IBM Corporation email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1-240-715-4655, tie line 268-1499 DFSORT/MVSontheweb at http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort/ IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 01/22/2008 08:36:49 AM: What confused me though was why could IDCAMS copy the whole file to a backup? Regards Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Van Dalsen, Herbie Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 01:20 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? That was my initial thinking, but I did not want to cloud anyone else's thinking... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shedlock, George Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 01:05 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? Is it possible that the COBOL program is not closing the file and therefore any additional extents are not reflected in the VTOC / Catalog entry? George Shedlock Jr AEGON Information Technology AEGON USA 502-560-3541 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Van Dalsen, Herbie Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 5:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: DFSORT anomaly? Hi all, WE are running z/OS 1.6 with no plans to upgrade because we aren't going to fork out any more for Tivoli 8.3. We also have Enterprise COBOL. This is the problem... The file was allocated Cyl,(15,5) and 16 records written to it by the COBOL program, it thus expanded to 3 volumes and lots of extents... In the same job, this file was sorted, but only 45900 records were sorted, into itself, and the rest of the records were lost. We have tried to re-create the problem by creating the multivolume file with IEBGENER... unsuccessfully... My thinking is this, and I have not found a MVS APAR stating that this might be the case, but here goes... Because of some problem / limitation in the COBOL / MVS File close routines... All three extents of the file are not known to DFSORT 3 steps lower and only at the actual end of the job, but how do I prove this. This occurred 3 times now, until we changed the allocation to Cyl,(200,50) and end up with the file on 1 volume, problem sorted? Any ideas, Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards Herbie Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator
Wheeler Postings (Was: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?)
David Logan wrote: Sorry for the slightly off-topic question, but how come this persons posts are always so complicated to work through with all of the pieces and URL links? Is it the function of how they are posting (i.e. perhaps online with certain options), or is this a manual effort? This type of question is best asked off-list, directly the the original poster. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
OMVS.ETC
When I installed my new z/OS 1.9 system I specified that I wanted to use zFS for OMVS. root, sibmroot, and var were created as zFS, but .etc was created as HFS. Is anyone aware of a reason that .etc is still HFS? Should I be able to convert it to a zFS? Thanks -- Mark Pace Mainline Information Systems -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
CICS Wiki news.
Hello all, here is some Wiki news. 1. The first old CICS website has been adopted into the Wiki. Check it out at http://cicswiki.org/cicswiki1/index.php?title=CICSCentral 2. I added the Yellow brick moment where Bob Yelavich will entertain us with CICS trivia. http://cicswiki.org/cicswiki1/index.php?title=Yellow_brick_moment 3. The first vendors for vendor spotlight are preparing their Wiki content. More information on this soon. 4. Quite a few new people have joined the Wiki. Check it out here: http://cicswiki.org/cicswiki1/index.php?title=Team Well my boss told me I had to choose between SHARE and Impact and I chose SHARE - so see you all in Orlando. Regards. Corneel. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
Your problem is OPTION COPY. With OPTION COPY you are not really sorting. In a real sort you would read ALL of the input and then write the output. In that case the input and output can be the same file. What is happening in your case is you are reading and writing to the same file at the same time. That leads to confusion. Your choices are: 1) Use two different data sets, or, 2) Do a real sort and then you can use the same data set. Chris Blaicher -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? Van Dalsen, Herbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Kees, That is actually that happens... Step1 creates the file, Step2 Makes a backup, using IDCAMS, and the backup does have 16000 records, and step3 does the sort... very weird... //DEL005 EXEC PGM=IEFBR14 //DD3 DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(MOD,DELETE,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(TRK,0) //* //NCPO511 EXEC PGM=NCPO511 //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //IPMOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT, // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA,SPACE=(CYL,(15,5)), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //* //IDCAM020 EXEC PGM=IDCAMS //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //FILEIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //FILEOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT.BACKUP(+1), // DISP=(,CATLG,DELETE), // UNIT=SYSDA, // SPACE=(CYL,(15,5),RLSE), // DCB=(RECFM=VB,LRECL=4504,BLKSIZE=0) //SYSINDD * REPRO INFILE(FILEIN) OUTFILE(FILEOUT) - REPLACE //* //SORT01 EXEC PGM=SORT //SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //SORTIN DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SORTOUT DD DSN=HUBRECHT.SORTINOUT,DISP=SHR //SYSINDD * OPTION COPY INREC IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,1426,2,CH,EQ,C'48'), OVERLAY=(132:C'5',134:C'S',888:C'CT6')), IFTHEN=(WHEN=(5,2,ZD,EQ,1,AND,150,4,ZD,EQ,6010), OVERLAY=(54:+12,TO=ZD,LENGTH=2)) Regards Herbie I really wonder if it possible to make Sort to this, with sortin and sortout being the same dataset. Make sortout a different dataset and see what happens. And/or check the manual for the validity of this sortstep. Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
David Betten wrote on 01/22/2008 06:53:52 AM: I haven't seen any job output yet but I wanted to share this information from DFSORT Application Programming Guide *** For a copy application, the SORTIN data set should not be the same as the SORTOUT data set or any OUTFIL data set because this can cause lost or incorrect data or unpredictable results. *** Frank probably knows more about this but it makes sense to me why we could have problems for COPY. When we do a SORT, all of the records from SORTIN need to be read before we can write anything to SORTOUT. This is because that last record read could potentially be the first record written. However, when we do a COPY, we can start writing to SORTOUT immediately. I would just try changing your sort step to write a new dataset and see what the results are. Dave has it right. I just got here and was going to write a similar post. You SHOULD NOT use the same data set for SORTIN and SORTOUT for a COPY for the reason Dave states that we are doing parallel read/write. Depending on how the data is arranged, you may get away with it, but you're taking a risk. We can't guarantee that you won't lose records. So just don't do it. You can use the same data set for SORTIN and SORTOUT for a SORT because we don't do parallel read/write. This is commonly known as a suicide sort because the input data set is overwritten so if something goes wrong (e.g. an I/O error) you don't have the input data set anymore. So you would want to be sure you have a backup for the input data set if you do a suicide sort. Frank Yaeger - DFSORT Development Team (IBM) - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Specialties: PARSE, JFY, SQZ, ICETOOL, IFTHEN, OVERLAY, Symbols, Migration = DFSORT/MVS is on the Web at http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Rexx IRXIC and IRXEXEC question
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 01/19/2008 at 09:26 PM, Tony Harminc [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I imagine it's more a case of running a batch TMP. You should be able to send and receive command input and output, but I would guess that a command trying to prompt would get a nasty RC from GETLINE or PUTGET, The Devil is in the details. GETLINE and PUTGET are capable of pulling data from the stack. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OMVS.ETC
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:22:19 -0500, Mark Pace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I installed my new z/OS 1.9 system I specified that I wanted to use zFS for OMVS. root, sibmroot, and var were created as zFS, but .etc was created as HFS. Is anyone aware of a reason that .etc is still HFS? Should I be able to convert it to a zFS? Thanks -- Mark Pace Mainline Information Systems -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html I'm not sure why your etc file system was created as an HFS, but there should be no reason why you cannot convert it to ZFS. We are currently running z/OS 1.7 in production and we have been an all ZFS shop for close to two years now. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Logan) writes: Sorry for the slightly off-topic question, but how come this persons posts are always so complicated to work through with all of the pieces and URL links? Is it the function of how they are posting (i.e. perhaps online with certain options), or is this a manual effort? I'm hoping to not spark a long debate. I'm hoping it's just a one or the other answer. re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#63 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? some of it overlaps http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#27 Re-hosting IMB-MAIN and some of it explained in these recent postings http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#57 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#64 starting in the late 70s, i had been doing semi-automated discussion groups and mailing lists on the internal network http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#internalnet which was larger than the arpanet/internet from just about the beginning until approx the summer of '85. then somebody packaged up about 300pgs of hardcopy of the discussions, put them in 3ring tandem binders and sent them to everybody on the executive committee (ceo, pres, senior vps). there was also a article in datamation. i got blaimed for all of it. the result was a whole lot of corporate churn and investigations into this new phenonoma. part of results were internal tools deployed to officially support electronic online discussion. major tool could operate both in usenet kind of mode as well in mailing list kind of mode simultaneously (end user could select the option). as noted this was on the internal network and distinct from both bitnet/earn http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#bitnet ... although the subsequent listserv on bitnet had some similarities the internal tool. for other topic drift ... old email from the person setting up earn (in europe) looking for computer conferencing tools: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#email840320 as previously referenced listserv history not started until '86 in europe/earn: http://www.lsoft.com/corporate/history_listserv.asp i have this old joke about in the early 70s, going over to paris to set up a HONE clone (i.e. internal online computing system) ... misc. past posts mentioning HONE http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone as part of the corporate EMEA hdqtrs move from ny to paris ... and having some difficulty reading my email back in the states. one of the other outcomes was that there was a researcher paid to study how i communicate ... they sat in the back of my office for nine months, went to me to meetings, took notes on face-to-face, phone, and electronic communication. they also had softcopy of all my incoming and outgoing email as well as logs of all instant messages. the resulting research was also used as a stanford phd thesis (joint with computer ai and language) as well as subsequent papers and books. misc. past posts related to computer mediated conversation http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.htm#cmc lots of past posts over the last dozen years or so discussing compareswap instruction and/or multiprocessor implementations http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp for slightly related drift as to references, URLs and posting technollgy ... again go back to early days at the science center http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech not only did the compareswap instruction originate at the science center, but also virtual machine systems, a lot of interactive computing facilities as well as the internal network technology. one of the other things that were invented at the science center was gml (letters chosen for the first letter of the last names of the three people ... although most people are more familiar with generalized markup language) in 1969. gml has subsequently morphed into sgml, html, xml, etc. reference to work at cern morphing sgml into html http://infomesh.net/html/history/early and reference to first webserver outside europe on the slac vm system (cern sister location) http://www.slac.stanford.edu/history/earlyweb/history.shtml for another reference there was this article in ibm systems mag. 3 years ago although some of the details are slightly garbled: http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/marchapril05/stoprun/10020p1.aspx there is also old joke at share circa 1974 ... when cern presented a paper about the results of a cms/tso bakeoff. the company couldn't restrict customer copies of the report ... but internal copies were marked confidential/restricted ... i.e. available on a need-to-know only (wouldn't want to contaminate employees with detailed TSO vis-a-vis CMS comparison). in any case, i've been doing online for almost as long as i've been using cp67 ... 40yrs this week when three people came out the last week jan68 from the science center to install cp67
Re: Wheeler Postings (Was: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?)
Edward, It may be better asked off list, but I have been wondering the same thing for a long time as well. Frankly, I'm glad the question was asked. Can anyone offer a definitive answer? Or just speculation? Chuck -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:08 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Wheeler Postings (Was: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?) David Logan wrote: Sorry for the slightly off-topic question, but how come this persons posts are always so complicated to work through with all of the pieces and URL links? Is it the function of how they are posting (i.e. perhaps online with certain options), or is this a manual effort? This type of question is best asked off-list, directly the the original poster. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wheeler Postings (Was: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?)
I should not ask the question, but do they exist or is it a 'virus' inside IBM-MAIN? Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hardee, Charles H Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 04:08 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Wheeler Postings (Was: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?) Edward, It may be better asked off list, but I have been wondering the same thing for a long time as well. Frankly, I'm glad the question was asked. Can anyone offer a definitive answer? Or just speculation? Chuck -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:08 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Wheeler Postings (Was: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?) David Logan wrote: Sorry for the slightly off-topic question, but how come this persons posts are always so complicated to work through with all of the pieces and URL links? Is it the function of how they are posting (i.e. perhaps online with certain options), or is this a manual effort? This type of question is best asked off-list, directly the the original poster. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
Thanks to everyone for replying to this. I am definitely going to get the apps guys to change the JCL. I just haven't whether it would be to change it to a sort, or create a second dataset. Will read the recommendations between the lines of the DFSORT manual... Regards Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Yaeger Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 03:50 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? David Betten wrote on 01/22/2008 06:53:52 AM: I haven't seen any job output yet but I wanted to share this information from DFSORT Application Programming Guide *** For a copy application, the SORTIN data set should not be the same as the SORTOUT data set or any OUTFIL data set because this can cause lost or incorrect data or unpredictable results. *** Frank probably knows more about this but it makes sense to me why we could have problems for COPY. When we do a SORT, all of the records from SORTIN need to be read before we can write anything to SORTOUT. This is because that last record read could potentially be the first record written. However, when we do a COPY, we can start writing to SORTOUT immediately. I would just try changing your sort step to write a new dataset and see what the results are. Dave has it right. I just got here and was going to write a similar post. You SHOULD NOT use the same data set for SORTIN and SORTOUT for a COPY for the reason Dave states that we are doing parallel read/write. Depending on how the data is arranged, you may get away with it, but you're taking a risk. We can't guarantee that you won't lose records. So just don't do it. You can use the same data set for SORTIN and SORTOUT for a SORT because we don't do parallel read/write. This is commonly known as a suicide sort because the input data set is overwritten so if something goes wrong (e.g. an I/O error) you don't have the input data set anymore. So you would want to be sure you have a backup for the input data set if you do a suicide sort. Frank Yaeger - DFSORT Development Team (IBM) - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Specialties: PARSE, JFY, SQZ, ICETOOL, IFTHEN, OVERLAY, Symbols, Migration = DFSORT/MVS is on the Web at http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well. Anne Lynn Wheeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: for another reference there was this article in ibm systems mag. 3 years ago although some of the details are slightly garbled: http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/marchapril05/stoprun/10020p1.aspx re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#63 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#65 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? i.e. the ibm systems mag article talks about my postings and the archived (URL) references the paper copy of the mag even included a picture of me sitting at home at a keyboard. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS Wiki news.
Corneel - I've just created myself an ID on the CICS Wiki - how do I become a member of the Team? -- Regards - Grant Grant Ward Able Senior Systems Architect DTCC Corneel Booysen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU 22/01/2008 15:49 Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU cc Subject CICS Wiki news. Hello all, here is some Wiki news. 1. The first old CICS website has been adopted into the Wiki. Check it out at http://cicswiki.org/cicswiki1/index.php?title=CICSCentral 2. I added the Yellow brick moment where Bob Yelavich will entertain us with CICS trivia. http://cicswiki.org/cicswiki1/index.php?title=Yellow_brick_moment 3. The first vendors for vendor spotlight are preparing their Wiki content. More information on this soon. 4. Quite a few new people have joined the Wiki. Check it out here: http://cicswiki.org/cicswiki1/index.php?title=Team Well my boss told me I had to choose between SHARE and Impact and I chose SHARE - so see you all in Orlando. Regards. Corneel. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html - DTCC DISCLAIMER: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately and delete the email and any attachments from your system. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Some help with GDG dataset control
Hi, I need some help to understand what will happen with GDG data sets under control following GDG index: //MYJOB JOB (1234),'BODRA' //STEP1 EXEC PGM=IDCAMS //SYSIN DD * DEFINE GDG(NAME(MYLIB.LIB.TEST)- LIMIT(02) - NOEMPTY - SCRATCH) /* If I have files MYLIB.LIB.TEST.G0001V00 in vol(son001) and MYLIB.LIB.TEST.G0002V00 in vol(pan001)and run another job that will generate MYLIB.LIB,TEST.G0003V00 in vol(son001), what will happen? 1 - G0001V00 will be deleted and G0003V00 will be created? 2 - G0001V00 will no be deleted and G0003V00 will not be created? (Insuficient space available) Thanks in advance Carlos -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Bookmanager Library Server
Excellent, thank you. Jim McAlpine On 1/22/08, Ramiro Camposagrado [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here it is again !!! http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr/Shelves/dsnshka1 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Some help with GDG dataset control
---snip-
I need some help to understand what will happen with GDG data sets
under control following GDG index:
//MYJOB JOB (1234),'BODRA'
//STEP1 EXEC PGM=IDCAMS//SYSIN DD *
DEFINE GDG(NAME(MYLIB.LIB.TEST)-
LIMIT(02) -
NOEMPTY -
SCRATCH)
/*
If I have files MYLIB.LIB.TEST.G0001V00 in vol(son001) and
MYLIB.LIB.TEST.G0002V00 in vol(pan001)and run another job that will
generate MYLIB.LIB,TEST.G0003V00 in vol(son001), what will happen?
1 - G0001V00 will be deleted and G0003V00 will be created?
2 - G0001V00 will no be deleted and G0003V00 will not be created?
(Insuficient space available)
unsnip--
In my experience, both cases you submit will be true. If you specify
DISP=([new],CATLG,CATLG), generation 3 will be cataloged, whether it is
correct or not. I recommend that you use DISP=({new],CATLG,DELETE) as a
standard. Generation 3 will then NOT be cataloged or retained and you
have less clean-up work to rerun the job or step.
--
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Re: Wheeler Postings (Was: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?)
Lynn has answered that question a while ago. Check the archives. (His or ibm-main's) -- Tom Schmidt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wheeler Postings (Was: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?)
Thanks -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Schmidt Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 04:51 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Wheeler Postings (Was: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?) Lynn has answered that question a while ago. Check the archives. (His or ibm-main's) -- Tom Schmidt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 01/22/2008 at 10:00 AM, Rob Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: but then again that could describe quite a few board members :-) There are none; this is not a boars. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
Thanks, This way I will not have to impact the jobs lower down the stream... Regards Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Betten Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 04:36 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? I would change the dataset names instead of changing the copy to a sort. Today, probably not much difference but if the file size grows over time, the copy is going to be faster and require less resources than a sort. I'd change the following Add a DD5 to your initial DEL005 step with a new data set named something like PECT.TBC.SE.ALC.TEMP.IMPOUT Change NCP0511 step to create PECT.TBC.SE.ALC.TEMP.IMPOUT Change IDCAM020 step's FILEIN to PECT.TBC.SE.ALC.TEMP.IMPOUT Change SORT01 step's SORTIN to PECT.TBC.SE.ALC.TEMP.IMPOUT You could also add another BR14 step right after the SORT01 step to delete the TEMP.IMPOUT if you want to avoid that extra copy occupying space. Have a nice day, Dave Betten DFSORT Development, Performance Lead IBM Corporation email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1-240-715-4655, tie line 268-1499 DFSORT/MVSontheweb at http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort/ IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 01/22/2008 11:04:26 AM: Thanks to everyone for replying to this. I am definitely going to get the apps guys to change the JCL. I just haven't whether it would be to change it to a sort, or create a second dataset. Will read the recommendations between the lines of the DFSORT manual... Regards Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Yaeger Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 03:50 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? David Betten wrote on 01/22/2008 06:53:52 AM: I haven't seen any job output yet but I wanted to share this information from DFSORT Application Programming Guide *** For a copy application, the SORTIN data set should not be the same as the SORTOUT data set or any OUTFIL data set because this can cause lost or incorrect data or unpredictable results. *** Frank probably knows more about this but it makes sense to me why we could have problems for COPY. When we do a SORT, all of the records from SORTIN need to be read before we can write anything to SORTOUT. This is because that last record read could potentially be the first record written. However, when we do a COPY, we can start writing to SORTOUT immediately. I would just try changing your sort step to write a new dataset and see what the results are. Dave has it right. I just got here and was going to write a similar post. You SHOULD NOT use the same data set for SORTIN and SORTOUT for a COPY for the reason Dave states that we are doing parallel read/write. Depending on how the data is arranged, you may get away with it, but you're taking a risk. We can't guarantee that you won't lose records. So just don't do it. You can use the same data set for SORTIN and SORTOUT for a SORT because we don't do parallel read/write. This is commonly known as a suicide sort because the input data set is overwritten so if something goes wrong (e.g. an I/O error) you don't have the input data set anymore. So you would want to be sure you have a backup for the input data set if you do a suicide sort. Frank Yaeger - DFSORT Development Team (IBM) - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Specialties: PARSE, JFY, SQZ, ICETOOL, IFTHEN, OVERLAY, Symbols, Migration = DFSORT/MVS is on the Web at http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
I would change the dataset names instead of changing the copy to a sort. Today, probably not much difference but if the file size grows over time, the copy is going to be faster and require less resources than a sort. I'd change the following Add a DD5 to your initial DEL005 step with a new data set named something like PECT.TBC.SE.ALC.TEMP.IMPOUT Change NCP0511 step to create PECT.TBC.SE.ALC.TEMP.IMPOUT Change IDCAM020 step's FILEIN to PECT.TBC.SE.ALC.TEMP.IMPOUT Change SORT01 step's SORTIN to PECT.TBC.SE.ALC.TEMP.IMPOUT You could also add another BR14 step right after the SORT01 step to delete the TEMP.IMPOUT if you want to avoid that extra copy occupying space. Have a nice day, Dave Betten DFSORT Development, Performance Lead IBM Corporation email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1-240-715-4655, tie line 268-1499 DFSORT/MVSontheweb at http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort/ IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 01/22/2008 11:04:26 AM: Thanks to everyone for replying to this. I am definitely going to get the apps guys to change the JCL. I just haven't whether it would be to change it to a sort, or create a second dataset. Will read the recommendations between the lines of the DFSORT manual... Regards Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Yaeger Sent: 22 Januarie 2008 03:50 nm To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? David Betten wrote on 01/22/2008 06:53:52 AM: I haven't seen any job output yet but I wanted to share this information from DFSORT Application Programming Guide *** For a copy application, the SORTIN data set should not be the same as the SORTOUT data set or any OUTFIL data set because this can cause lost or incorrect data or unpredictable results. *** Frank probably knows more about this but it makes sense to me why we could have problems for COPY. When we do a SORT, all of the records from SORTIN need to be read before we can write anything to SORTOUT. This is because that last record read could potentially be the first record written. However, when we do a COPY, we can start writing to SORTOUT immediately. I would just try changing your sort step to write a new dataset and see what the results are. Dave has it right. I just got here and was going to write a similar post. You SHOULD NOT use the same data set for SORTIN and SORTOUT for a COPY for the reason Dave states that we are doing parallel read/write. Depending on how the data is arranged, you may get away with it, but you're taking a risk. We can't guarantee that you won't lose records. So just don't do it. You can use the same data set for SORTIN and SORTOUT for a SORT because we don't do parallel read/write. This is commonly known as a suicide sort because the input data set is overwritten so if something goes wrong (e.g. an I/O error) you don't have the input data set anymore. So you would want to be sure you have a backup for the input data set if you do a suicide sort. Frank Yaeger - DFSORT Development Team (IBM) - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Specialties: PARSE, JFY, SQZ, ICETOOL, IFTHEN, OVERLAY, Symbols, Migration = DFSORT/MVS is on the Web at http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? (1
Paul Gilmartin wrote: (I did say clear the ECB before POSTing the other task, didn't I?) That's should, not must. And why not? It can't really matter, because even if the code is the minimal: WAIT L R1,ECBPreserve condition code XCECB,ECB Clear ECB for next cycle ... there's still the possibility that the waiter will lose control and some other task be dispatched between the WAIT and the XC. Is there any hazard in another task's (or the same task's) being able to observe the ECB with the POST bit set? If the concern is that the path from WAIT to XC may be so long that the waiter misses a POST by the other task during that interval, the design is wrong. The coder mustn't (not shouldn't) count on winning that race. These days it's a non-issue; instead of XC use CS. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, VT -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Rexx IRXIC and IRXEXEC question
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:33:16 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 01/19/2008 at 09:26 PM, Tony Harminc [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I imagine it's more a case of running a batch TMP. You should be able to send and receive command input and output, but I would guess that a command trying to prompt would get a nasty RC from GETLINE or PUTGET, The Devil is in the details. GETLINE and PUTGET are capable of pulling data from the stack. Sure - but which address space would that stack be in? How would the initiating address space get anything onto the stack in the target one (the one running the TMP)? Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IEFACTRT exit
Thanks for the information and suggestions. DAE doesn't show anything recent for the LPAR in question. We're going for the simple minded plan, too! We already stop and restart our production initiators freqently, for other reasons, and we will now do the same for the applications development inits. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Skip Robinson Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 6:35 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IEFACTRT exit Initiators have a historic tendency for storage problems, especially the longer they run. Fixing your WTO problem by restarting the initiator is a classic workaround for such problems. It's possible that you're taking abends you're not seeing because of DAE dump suppression. As a first pass, look in IPCS at the DAE utility (3.5) for getmain failures. If nothing shows up, when the problem occurs again, set a nonspecific PER SLIP trap for a job name that is known or likely to fail. Unfortunately, finding a getmain failure does not solve the problem, which is probably a result of storage fragmentation over time. We had a similar problem once, and our simple minded plan was to stop and restart initiators at intervals frequent enough to reduce the effects of fragmentation. Diagnosis of the root cause will not be simple. . JO.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 626-302-7535 Office 323-715-0595 Mobile [EMAIL PROTECTED] Shane [EMAIL PROTECTED] .AU To Sent by: IBM IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Mainframe cc Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject .EDU Re: IEFACTRT exit 01/18/2008 02:50 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] .EDU On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 16:19 -0500, O'Connor, Ruth wrote: Any ideas about what could have happened to the initiator to affect an smf exit's WTOs? Have a look at the subpool for any getmains. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
One little glitch remains. The mother needs to know when the daugnter is ready to accept more work. Either of the following works: o The daughter can simply clear the ECB to zeroes and the mother can use this as an indication that the daughter is ready to be POSTed. But in some cases, the mother might end up spinning until the daughter clears the second ECB. So, better: Nope. It falls prey to the TOCTTOU problem. Moreover, the normal content of the ECB after a post is X'4000', so any scheme that depends on a compare and swap is going to be easily duped and misled by successive (potentially valid) posts on the same ECB in between waking from the first successful post and attempting to clear the ECB. And making either or both sides spin is very counter productive. o Introduce a second ECB. When the daughter has accepted the work item or is ready for more work, it clears the first ECB, POSTs the second, and WAITs on the first. When the mother needs the daughter's assistance, it WAITs on the second ECB, clears it, and POSTS the first. If there's a communication area, neither task should POST until it has completed reading or updating that communication area; effectively POSTing transfers ownership of the communication area (and the POSTed ECB) to the other task. The mother must clear both ECBs before ATTACH. The daughter must POST the second ECB as part of initialization after it has been ATTACHed. This is the reason that a pair of ECBs has been mentioned earlier in this thread. (I believe I'm close as in horseshoes here.) If you're doing asynchronous request/response processing between two or more tasks you end up having no choice but to introduce an ECB for each side of the conversation between any two service tasks. However, that alone is not enough - except in the case where the communication is strictly half duplex. If your application design can guarantee that the lone ECB can only ever be posted serially then no problem; but asynchronous applications are rarely that compliant. More typically you also need to develop a robust queuing mechanism for passing work requests and responses between requesters and servers. That is because, if you look dispassionately at the ECB as an interface, there is no way to avoid the potential of missing an intervening post when you clear the ECB. Did I mention it was a crap mechanism? CC -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
RES: IEFACTRT exit
And you can try VSM CHECKREGIONLOSS parameter of DIAGxx Atenciosamente / Regards / Saludos Ituriel do Nascimento Neto Banco Bradesco S/A 4254/DPCD Alphaville Engenharia de Software - Sistemas Operacionais Mainframes Tel: 55 11 4197-2021 Fax: 55 11 4197-2814 |-Mensagem original- |De: IBM Mainframe Discussion List |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Em nome de O'Connor, Ruth |Enviada em: terça-feira, 22 de janeiro de 2008 16:15 |Para: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU |Assunto: Re: IEFACTRT exit | |Thanks for the information and suggestions. DAE doesn't show |anything recent for the LPAR in question. | |We're going for the simple minded plan, too! We already stop |and restart our production initiators freqently, for other |reasons, and we will now do the same for the applications |development inits. | HTMLfont face=Tahoma size=1HRAVISO LEGAL brEsta mensagem é destinada exclusivamente para a(s) pessoa(s) a quem é dirigida, podendo conter informação confidencial e/ou legalmente privilegiada. Se você não for destinatário desta mensagem, desde já fica notificado de abster-se a divulgar, copiar, distribuir, examinar ou, de qualquer forma, utilizar a informação contida nesta mensagem, por ser ilegal. Caso você tenha recebido esta mensagem por engano, pedimos que nos retorne este E-Mail, promovendo, desde logo, a eliminação do seu conteúdo em sua base de dados, registros ou sistema de controle. Fica desprovida de eficácia e validade a mensagem que contiver vínculos obrigacionais, expedida por quem não detenha poderes de representação. HTMLfont face=Tahoma size=1HRLEGAL ADVICE brThis message is exclusively destined for the people to whom it is directed, and it can bear private and/or legally exceptional information. If you are not addressee of this message, since now you are advised to not release, copy, distribute, check or, otherwise, use the information contained in this message, because it is illegal. If you received this message by mistake, we ask you to return this email, making possible, as soon as possible, the elimination of its contents of your database, registrations or controls system. The message that bears any mandatory links, issued by someone who has no representation powers, shall be null or void. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? (1
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:00:52 -0500, Peter Relson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can be certain that POST will always support the CS quick-post protocol and the LOCAL LOCK. I've never understood why, after all these years, IBM hasn't put the quick-post code right into the POST macro. Of course there are special cases (XM post, most obviously), but the macro normally knows if it's a simple POST. Is there any case where it is desirable to issue the SVC (or otherwise call POST)? Is it to cover the case where the task being POSTed has a higher dispatching priority, and should therefore run first, before the POSTing task runs again? Surely this is a long obsolete application design, after thirty years of multiprocessor machines being in common use. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? (1
(I did say clear the ECB before POSTing the other task, didn't I?) That's should, not must. And why not? It can't really matter, because even if the code is the minimal: WAIT L R1,ECBPreserve condition code XCECB,ECB Clear ECB for next cycle ... there's still the possibility that the waiter will lose control and some other task be dispatched between the WAIT and the XC. Is there any hazard in another task's (or the same task's) being able to observe the ECB with the POST bit set? If the concern is that the path from WAIT to XC may be so long that the waiter misses a POST by the other task during that interval, the design is wrong. The coder mustn't (not shouldn't) count on winning that race. These days it's a non-issue; instead of XC use CS. Nope! After a normal post the compare value is going to be X'4000' and the swap value is going to be 0. If another post intervenes and stores another X'4000' in place of the first, then the compare is going to succeed and you'll miss a valid post. There's no way out of this dilemma. In anything but the most trivial case you need more application logic combined with a queuing mechanism so that missing a post is harmless. CC -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
Craddock, Chris wrote: More typically you also need to develop a robust queuing mechanism for passing work requests and responses between requesters and servers. That is because, if you look dispassionately at the ECB as an interface, there is no way to avoid the potential of missing an intervening post when you clear the ECB. Exactly! I'm glad somebody *finally* interjected this into the discussion! The ECB interface is too often -- but should never be -- used as or confused with an asynchronous queuing mechanism. Otherwise, requests _will_ be lost! Rather, to request that a service task perform some function, one should put the request on a queue and then POST the ECB on which the service task WAITs for work. (Note: In a design involving multiple requesters, many such requests might be queued before the service task has a chance to wake up.) The service task wakes up, clears the ECB, and then pulls work requests off the queue, and processes them, until the queue is empty. At that point, the service task WAITs on the ECB again. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wheeler Postings (Was: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?)
Here, for instance: http://groups.google.com/group/bit.listserv.ibm-main/msg/7941aee482af5b4 8? Jon snip Lynn has answered that question a while ago. Check the archives. (His or ibm-main's) /snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Copying Unix tar file to tape
Just to clarify this from my experimenting, SDB does not do the trick; IEBGENER hurks up a hairball if you try this. Thanks, Jon //STEP1 EXEC PGM=IEBGENER //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSIN DD DUMMY //SYSUT1 DD PATH='/path/to/file.tar',FILEDATA=BINARY, // DCB=(RECFM=FB,LRECL=1,BLKSIZE=8000) //SYSUT2 DD DSN=TAPE.OUTPUT.TAR,DISP=(NEW,CATLG), // UNIT=TAPE,DCB=(RECFM=FB,LRECL=1,BLKSIZE=0,DSORG=PS) // Note that the BLKSIZE=8000 on the SYSUT1 doesn't really matter too much. Any valid value will do. But I'm not sure that SDB would supply a valid value if you code BLKSIZE=0 and OPEN for input. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OMVS.ETC
We have been running etc as a zFS since 1.6 Actually, we were running zFS on all OMVS files except for root since 1.6 at 1.8, I did zFS for the root as well. No more HFS -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Copying Unix tar file to tape
Thanks for the tips, folks. I think I'm going to switch to pax for now, and I have downloaded omvstape to look at later. By the way, there is a slight misprint in the 1.8 Unix commands manual. To add parameters to dictate space allocation and such, the format is something like this: pax -W seqparms='RECFM=FB,LRECL=80,BLKSIZE=0,space=(cyl,(300,50))' -wvf //'dbajeb.subv.pax' /dir/to/backup (There is mention of this in OA12816.) Thanks again, Jon -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Z Education Needs
zFolks, What are specific concerns in the field for IBM mainframe education or knowledge requirements: 1. When a IBM z/OS (zLinux) or mainframe Sales Rep., IT Architect, FTSS (field technical support) or ITS (IT Specialist) comes to your site to: market, explain integration, design systems, install or configure products (inclusive of mainframe hardware) what do you look for in their skills? 2. Do you rate them (internally) on how well they know the platform / product characteristics? 3. Do you ask then to differentiate the product (or OS) from what its Distributed functionality provides or offers? 4. What are other issues not mention above? thank you. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] System z Project Office Technology Enablement Somers, New York 10589 (212) 745-2444, t/l 243-2444 (NYC#) Visit: Kettner's Corner@ http://w3.ibm.com/software/cpo (IBM internal only) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Is msys for Setup widely used? Is it useful to some of you?
I'm sorry for this late reply but as of z/OS V1R8, msys for Setup is no longer used. Debbie Noll z/OS UNIX ID planner John Mattson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is msys for Setup widely used? Is it useful to some of you? It looks like it could have potential, but maybe someone hear has experience... the great teacher. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? (1
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:37:34 -0500, Gerhard Postpischil wrote: Paul Gilmartin wrote: (I did say clear the ECB before POSTing the other task, didn't I?) That's should, not must. And why not? It can't really matter, because even if the code is the minimal: WAIT L R1,ECBPreserve condition code XCECB,ECB Clear ECB for next cycle ... there's still the possibility that the waiter will lose control and some other task be dispatched between the WAIT and the XC. Is there any hazard in another task's (or the same task's) being able to observe the ECB with the POST bit set? If the concern is that the path from WAIT to XC may be so long that the waiter misses a POST by the other task during that interval, the design is wrong. The coder mustn't (not shouldn't) count on winning that race. These days it's a non-issue; instead of XC use CS. And if the CS fails, it means that some other process has been unexpectedly meddling with the ECB. What to do then? ABEND with a nasty message? (Perhaps I need more details of the design you envision.) -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Copying Unix tar file to tape
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:40:10 -0500, Jon Brock wrote: Thanks for the tips, folks. I think I'm going to switch to pax for now, and I have downloaded omvstape to look at later. OK, since this came back, I wrote earlier off-list to whoever suggested pax that both tar and pax can use Classic data sets as archives. But there's another reason for switching: tar is so obsolete that POSIX mentions only pax. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Z Education Needs
They need to realize that System z z/OS. John H Kettner wrote: zFolks, What are specific concerns in the field for IBM mainframe education or knowledge requirements: 1. When a IBM z/OS (zLinux) or mainframe Sales Rep., IT Architect, FTSS (field technical support) or ITS (IT Specialist) comes to your site to: market, explain integration, design systems, install or configure products (inclusive of mainframe hardware) what do you look for in their skills? 2. Do you rate them (internally) on how well they know the platform / product characteristics? 3. Do you ask then to differentiate the product (or OS) from what its Distributed functionality provides or offers? 4. What are other issues not mention above? thank you. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] System z Project Office Technology Enablement Somers, New York 10589 (212) 745-2444, t/l 243-2444 (NYC#) Visit: Kettner's Corner@ http://w3.ibm.com/software/cpo (IBM internal only) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Rich Smrcina VM Assist, Inc. Phone: 414-491-6001 Ans Service: 360-715-2467 rich.smrcina at vmassist.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina Catch the WAVV! http://www.wavv.org WAVV 2008 - Chattanooga - April 18-22, 2008 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
I had sent an earlier post that got lost in the ether You could simply change the input of the COPY step to use the GDG generation you created in the BACKUP step. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Betten Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:36 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? I would change the dataset names instead of changing the copy to a sort. Today, probably not much difference but if the file size grows over time, the copy is going to be faster and require less resources than a sort. I'd change the following Add a DD5 to your initial DEL005 step with a new data set named something like PECT.TBC.SE.ALC.TEMP.IMPOUT Change NCP0511 step to create PECT.TBC.SE.ALC.TEMP.IMPOUT Change IDCAM020 step's FILEIN to PECT.TBC.SE.ALC.TEMP.IMPOUT Change SORT01 step's SORTIN to PECT.TBC.SE.ALC.TEMP.IMPOUT You could also add another BR14 step right after the SORT01 step to delete the TEMP.IMPOUT if you want to avoid that extra copy occupying space. Have a nice day, -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: OMVS.ETC
I'm not sure why the Dialogs created it as HFS, and everything else as zFS. I went ahead and converted it to zFS and I now I'm totally zFS. Thanks for the information. -- Mark Pace Mainline Information Systems -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Z Education Needs
John H Kettner wrote: zFolks, What are specific concerns in the field for IBM mainframe education or knowledge requirements: 1. When a IBM z/OS (zLinux) or mainframe Sales Rep., IT Architect, FTSS (field technical support) or ITS (IT Specialist) comes to your site to: market, explain integration, design systems, install or configure products (inclusive of mainframe hardware) what do you look for in their skills? 2. Do you rate them (internally) on how well they know the platform / product characteristics? 3. Do you ask then to differentiate the product (or OS) from what its Distributed functionality provides or offers? 4. What are other issues not mention above? thank you. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] System z Project Office Technology Enablement That's kind of a wide spectrum, don't you think? * sales reps should know the h/w, s/w product line, pricing schemes, how to examine business needs * IT Architect - what is that? could be physical planning or network design; could be someone who suggests how the IT department should be organized? title really says nothin * FTSS / ITS - knowledgable in physical, electrical, HVAC, access requirements, etc., I would guess In general, I would rank competence first, then communication and social skills. I would imagine, WRT your question 2, most clients just take what they get and assume that is the norm. I would also guess that answer to question 3 is: no. Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com z/OS Application development made easier * Our classes include + How things work + Programming examples with realistic applications + Starter / skeleton code + Complete working programs + Useful utilities and subroutines + Tips and techniques -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
No local ports available IP printers
Hi all... we converted over the weekend from z/OS 1.4 and CA TCPIP to z/OS 1.7 with both IBM and CA stacks. The IBM stack is running all sockets, etc. The CA stack only does telnet and ftp. My problem... We use the old EPS product to send prints from the mainframe to network printers and it is using the IBM stack now. In times of busy printing (like today) messages come from EPS say no local ports available. With netstat commands I can see lots of TimeWait's. The sessions will clear soon and another batch of prints will be sent until no local ports again. This is causing prints to be delivered slowly and we are starting to get complaints. We are pretty green with IBM's TCPIP. I am franticly looking into the problem, but I sure would appreciate any pointers where to look, what to do. It would be really bad here if we had to back off just because of this. Thanks for any help... Robert Johnston Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:51:29 -0800, Edward Jaffe wrote: Craddock, Chris wrote: More typically you also need to develop a robust queuing mechanism for passing work requests and responses between requesters and servers. That is because, if you look dispassionately at the ECB as an interface, there is no way to avoid the potential of missing an intervening post when you clear the ECB. Exactly! I'm glad somebody *finally* interjected this into the discussion! The ECB interface is too often -- but should never be -- used as or confused with an asynchronous queuing mechanism. Otherwise, requests _will_ be lost! Rather, to request that a service task perform some function, one should put the request on a queue and then POST the ECB on which the service task WAITs for work. (Note: In a design involving multiple requesters, many such requests might be queued before the service task has a chance to wake up.) The service task wakes up, clears the ECB, and then pulls work requests off the queue, and processes them, until the queue is empty. At that point, the service task WAITs on the ECB again. And you still need a design that covers the case in which a POST occurs between wakes up and clears the ECB. CS may cover this, but it's not obvious how. Perhaps if each POSTer supplies a unique condition code? And a design that serializes queue insertion among multiple requesters. What CC envisions is something like semaphores, which support multiple concurrent queue fillers and multiple concurrent queue emptiers. You and he are making clear the deficiencies of WAIT/POST. It is what it is. VAX had instructions for atomic list element addition and deletion. Is this what PLO is for? I've used POSIX pipes to implement a sort of semaphore. A circular list of request blocks, using CS to update the insertion and extraction pointers? Hmmm. Each block needs 3 states: empty, full, and busy. (All assuming that the request block is larger than any operand of CS.) But remember the OP's naivete (no slight; it's a good question). surely we're providing TMI. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DFSORT anomaly?
Or, if you absolutely, positively want/need to keep the output in the dataset you initially created, simply change the JCL to use the GDG you created in the IDCAMS step as the input dataset to the COPY. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Betten Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 8:54 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DFSORT anomaly? I haven't seen any job output yet but I wanted to share this information from DFSORT Application Programming Guide *** For a copy application, the SORTIN data set should not be the same as the SORTOUT data set or any OUTFIL data set because this can cause lost or incorrect data or unpredictable results. *** Frank probably knows more about this but it makes sense to me why we could have problems for COPY. When we do a SORT, all of the records from SORTIN need to be read before we can write anything to SORTOUT. This is because that last record read could potentially be the first record written. However, when we do a COPY, we can start writing to SORTOUT immediately. I would just try changing your sort step to write a new dataset and see what the results are. Have a nice day, Dave Betten DFSORT Development, Performance Lead IBM Corporation email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1-240-715-4655, tie line 268-1499 DFSORT/MVSontheweb at http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Respond Privately to z Ed. Input needs
Thank you -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 13:22 -0500, Craddock, Chris wrote: Did I mention it was a crap mechanism? I must have missed that nuance - could you explain a little what you mean ??? . . . g,d,r Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:51:29 -0800, Edward Jaffe wrote: Rather, to request that a service task perform some function, one should put the request on a queue and then POST the ECB on which the service task WAITs for work. (Note: In a design involving multiple requesters, many such requests might be queued before the service task has a chance to wake up.) The service task wakes up, clears the ECB, and then pulls work requests off the queue, and processes them, until the queue is empty. At that point, the service task WAITs on the ECB again. And you still need a design that covers the case in which a POST occurs between wakes up and clears the ECB. The situation you describe is already covered by the above, tried and true, technique. Requests are queued *before* the ECB is POSTed. The ECB is cleared *before* the queue is processed. Any request arriving just before the ECB is cleared will be handled. Any request arriving just after the ECB is cleared will result in the ECB being already-POSTed the next time the TCB WAITs. (Note: it's entirely possible to observe an already-POSTed ECB and an empty queue prior to the WAIT.) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? (1
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craddock, Chris Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 1:29 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? (1 Snipped In anything but the most trivial case you need more application logic combined with a queuing mechanism so that missing a post is harmless. Granted, but the converse is also true: A posix-style semaphore or queuing mechanism is way overkill for the simplest cases, which IMHO most non-software-house application (not systems) programmers are most likely to need or encounter. Typical in my non-software-house application experience is a single master task with N children, each child with different responsibilities, and each child's only communication need is with the parent, not with any sibling. In this type of application, ECB/POST/WAIT is more than adequate and no requests are ever lost using FastPOST or FastWAIT. Software houses and systems programmers tend to deal with far more complex designs where multiple requestors and/or multiple servers are involved. For those applications a semaphore or queuing mechanisms of some sort are certainly the correct solution. BTDTGTTSTPI. IOW, suit the tool to the job you need to accomplish. ECB/POST/WAIT is a perfectly proportioned mechanism for even quite sophisticated application programming. It's only when you must step up to the next level of multiple requestor/server designs that ECB/POST/WAIT becomes insufficient to your application's needs. Peter This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Z Education Needs
They need to know and understand that not everyone runs just z/OS, DB2 and Websphere. Some of us (non-team-players) run z/VM and Linux and have real non-Websphere workloads on both z/VM and Linux. /Tom Kern On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:59:19 -0500, John H Kettner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: zFolks, What are specific concerns in the field for IBM mainframe education or knowledge requirements: 1. When a IBM z/OS (zLinux) or mainframe Sales Rep., IT Architect, FTSS (field technical support) or ITS (IT Specialist) comes to your site to: market, explain integration, design systems, install or configure products (inclusive of mainframe hardware) what do you look for in their skills? 2. Do you rate them (internally) on how well they know the platform / product characteristics? 3. Do you ask then to differentiate the product (or OS) from what its Distributed functionality provides or offers? 4. What are other issues not mention above? thank you. John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Z Education Needs
Hi, 'Comes to the site ? a) They need to know : 1) What the customer is licensed for 2) Who the audience is 3) What their Claim to fame is 4) What to indentify the Customers needs 5) When to say I do not know, but i will get back to you b) They should not have to 1) Have the latest bells and whistles in their pocket/ear/cellphone 2) Know more than the customer , about his problem 3) KNow how to set their Out of office email message. All the new IBM'ers love to do this. Not sure why Anton On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:59:19 -0500, John H Kettner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: zFolks, What are specific concerns in the field for IBM mainframe education or knowledge requirements: 1. When a IBM z/OS (zLinux) or mainframe Sales Rep., IT Architect, FTSS (field technical support) or ITS (IT Specialist) comes to your site to: market, explain integration, design systems, install or configure products (inclusive of mainframe hardware) what do you look for in their skills? 2. Do you rate them (internally) on how well they know the platform / product characteristics? 3. Do you ask then to differentiate the product (or OS) from what its Distributed functionality provides or offers? 4. What are other issues not mention above? thank you. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] System z Project Office Technology Enablement Somers, New York 10589 (212) 745-2444, t/l 243-2444 (NYC#) Visit: Kettner's Corner@ http://w3.ibm.com/software/cpo (IBM internal only) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Can a pdf document be create using COBOL?
I want to thank everyone who responded to my question. I have passed this information on to our development staff. They are going to evaluate each suggestion and see which one best fits our needs. Thanks, Ray Phone: (502) 564-8952 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wilmoth, Ray (COT) Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 3:25 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Can a pdf document be create using COBOL? We have an application which requires its report be generated as a pdf file. Currently, this is being accomplished by a java application running in WebSphere Application Server for z/OS. The customer is not happy with the length of time it takes to create the report. I have suggested that the report should be generated via COBOL in batch. Can a PDF version of this report be created using COBOL? Thanks, Ray Commonwealth Office of Technology Finance and Administration Cabinet Commonwealth of Kentucky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Confidentiality Statement This communication contains information which is confidential. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying, forwarding or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender and send a copy or notify: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and then delete the communication and destroy any copies of it. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: No local ports available IP printers
On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 13:31 -0600, Johnston, Robert E wrote: In times of busy printing (like today) messages come from EPS say no local ports available. LPR (the printer client) is historically defined to use one of ports 721-731. If you have more than 11 simultaneous LPRs going on a single host, then some will have to wait for a local port to become available. While I guess some LPDs (printer servers) might still insist that the LPR client actually originate on one of those ports, none of the LPDs we run here seem to care. So... ... a long time ago we told VPS to use a wider range of ports for its LPR clients (the TCPLPORT parameter in the printer definition). Perhaps your EPS product has an equivalent tweak? -- David Andrews A. Duda and Sons, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Copying Unix tar file to tape
I am trying to write out a Unix System Services file -- a tar archive -- to tape. For simplicity's sake, I was planning on using IEBGENER, but I'm a bit confused as to what file characteristics to use for this. Anybody out there have any sample JCL? Unix tar files have a length that is a multiple of 512. I would expect either RECFM=FB LRECL=512, or RECFM=U and a block size some multiple of 512. Each file stored in a tar file has a 512 byte header, and is padded to the next 512 byte boundary. If you change the blocksize, the data should be fine but you sometimes get a warning when tar gets to the end of the file. The blocksize is specified on the tar command with the b option as a multiplier of 512. That is, the default of 20 gives a 10240 byte BLKSIZE. -- glen -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Re-hosting IMB-MAIN (was RE: z890 2086-160 w/ 2 IFLs on eBay)
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:29:39 -0600, Darren Evans-Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... It's amazing how a post degenerates into a wild rumour. (not your post Shmuel) ... Actually, this thread started in a pretty degenerate state - asking about rehosting IBM-Main. Our own FUD added UA dropping us?. IBM-MAIN isn't going anywhere. UA is not dropping us. The only place I've heard this, is this list! Thank you for killing the rumor. (Let's hope it stays dead.) Pat O'Keefe -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Farley, Peter x23353) writes: Granted, but the converse is also true: A posix-style semaphore or queuing mechanism is way overkill for the simplest cases, which IMHO most non-software-house application (not systems) programmers are most likely to need or encounter. Typical in my non-software-house application experience is a single master task with N children, each child with different responsibilities, and each child's only communication need is with the parent, not with any sibling. In this type of application, ECB/POST/WAIT is more than adequate and no requests are ever lost using FastPOST or FastWAIT. Software houses and systems programmers tend to deal with far more complex designs where multiple requestors and/or multiple servers are involved. For those applications a semaphore or queuing mechanisms of some sort are certainly the correct solution. BTDTGTTSTPI. IOW, suit the tool to the job you need to accomplish. ECB/POST/WAIT is a perfectly proportioned mechanism for even quite sophisticated application programming. It's only when you must step up to the next level of multiple requestor/server designs that ECB/POST/WAIT becomes insufficient to your application's needs. all of the large DBMS vendors have gone to some sort of internal task management ... and are using compareswap ... or similar instruction from other hardware vendors (that would offer similar semantics, although the 370 compareswap is the granddaddy). one of the problems that rs/6000 and aix ran into getting all the major vendors to port to the RS/6000 and aix ... was that it failed to have an instruction offering compareswap atomic semantics ... forcing (by comparison) significant performance degradation (using kernel calls). It was possibly initially anticipated that RS/6000 didn't require a compareswap instruction because the rios/power chip didn't offer a multiprocessor option. however, one of the first AIX enhancements for the major DBMS vendors was an emulated compareswap instruction ... which translated into an SVC call with an extremely short instruction emulation fastpath in the supervisor call first level interrupt handler ... with immediate return to application mode. rios/power was always only a single processor but needed to run disabled for all interrupts to provide the emulated atomic compareswap semantics ... and do it with minimal pathlength overhead (thus the special case emulation and return done totally in the svc interrupt handler). there is significant amount of commonality in design across the dbms industry on how to leverage compareswap semantics to implement multithreaded/multitasking operation. lots of past posts mentioning multiprocessor designs and implementations and/or compareswap instruction http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp things get more complex going to cluster (loosely-coupled) operation. my wife had been con'ed into going to POK to be in charge of loosely-coupled architecture. while there, she came up with peer-coupled shared data architecture ... which didn't see a lot of takeup until sysplex (which contributed to her not staying long in the position) ... except for the people doing ims hotstandby ... misc. past posts http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#shareddata later we did the ha/cmp product http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp with a distributed lock manager that managed serialization function transaction semantics across a clustered, loosely-coupled environment. we had extended the work in ha/cmp and distributed lock manager for large-scale scaleup ... mentioned in this old post http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13 and some of the scaleup issues discussed in these old emails http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Copying Unix tar file to tape
Glen, Thanks for this information. I don't think I have seen this any place else. Jon snip Unix tar files have a length that is a multiple of 512. I would expect either RECFM=FB LRECL=512, or RECFM=U and a block size some multiple of 512. Each file stored in a tar file has a 512 byte header, and is padded to the next 512 byte boundary. If you change the blocksize, the data should be fine but you sometimes get a warning when tar gets to the end of the file. The blocksize is specified on the tar command with the b option as a multiplier of 512. That is, the default of 20 gives a 10240 byte BLKSIZE. /snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:49:34 -0800, Edward Jaffe wrote: Rather, to request that a service task perform some function, one should put the request on a queue and then POST the ECB on which the service task WAITs for work. (Note: In a design involving multiple requesters, many such requests might be queued before the service task has a chance to wake up.) The service task wakes up, clears the ECB, and then pulls work requests off the queue, and processes them, until the queue is empty. At that point, the service task WAITs on the ECB again. And you still need a design that covers the case in which a POST occurs between wakes up and clears the ECB. The situation you describe is already covered by the above, tried and true, technique. Requests are queued *before* the ECB is POSTed. The ECB is cleared *before* the queue is processed. Any request arriving just before the ECB is cleared will be handled. Any request arriving just after the ECB is cleared will result in the ECB being already-POSTed the next time the TCB WAITs. (Note: it's entirely possible to observe an already-POSTed ECB and an empty queue prior to the WAIT.) Aha! At last I see. That answers my question to Peter R. But I was envisioning a technique in which only one task at a time updates the queue, handing it back and forth with two ECBs. Now there's still need to manage concurrent accesses to the queue. I suppose CS can be used for that purpose. Whenever the queue is empty, the queue emptier WAITs. But if the queue is storage constrained, it can fill up. What does the queue filler do then? Thanks, gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
Would you mind, Paul, giving a couple of examples of real life programs that you are thinking about? I know personally that I couldn't get my head around this stuff unless I imagined some sort of application and how it would work using threads. Three things came to mind: How does DB2 do it? What would an HTTP server do? What about sort that divides the work among different threads? In my imaginings the total number of structures to handle was something like TotalThreads=N*Cpu_count, but was always fixed at any given time. That was just my guess. Thanks, Lindy -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: 23. tammikuuta 2008 1:00 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? Aha! At last I see. That answers my question to Peter R. But I was envisioning a technique in which only one task at a time updates the queue, handing it back and forth with two ECBs. Now there's still need to manage concurrent accesses to the queue. I suppose CS can be used for that purpose. Whenever the queue is empty, the queue emptier WAITs. But if the queue is storage constrained, it can fill up. What does the queue filler do then? Thanks, gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
Paul Gilmartin wrote: Aha! At last I see. That answers my question to Peter R. But I was envisioning a technique in which only one task at a time updates the queue, handing it back and forth with two ECBs. Now there's still need to manage concurrent accesses to the queue. I suppose CS can be used for that purpose. Indeed. We normally use CDS for the simplest (LIFO) queuing of requests. For 64-bit pointers, CDSG would suffice. Whenever the queue is empty, the queue emptier WAITs. But if the queue is storage constrained, it can fill up. What does the queue filler do then? Application dependent. The server can pre-allocate queue elements for the maximum number of expected requesters (similar to free pool manipulation in PoOp), or each requester can be responsible for providing its own queue element. (The latter technique can be more complex due to cleanup considerations.) I usually abend when resources are unavailable. But, depending on the circumstances and relative importance to the system that the request be serviced, an argument might be made for timed retry or other similar stalling tactic. For example, consider actions one might take when IXCMSGO fails with RC=x'0C' and RSN=x'04': *01* RETURN CODES: * *C IxcRetCodeEnvError: Environmental error. This * currently includes the case where all resources * associated with a destination system have been * exhausted. * * Hex Reason Meaning * Code * * 4 ixcMsgoRsnNoBuffer: No message buffer * available, timeout not specified. * * XCF signalling resources (message * buffers) are temporarily unavailable. * Retry the request after allowing some * time for the condition to clear. * Alternatively, retry the request with a * nonzero TIMEOUT value to have XCF try * to handle the condition. If this * condition reoccurs when a nonzero * TIMEOUT value is specified, the * message-out service will either accept * the message with return code 4 or will * reject the message with return code * 'C'x reason 'C'x. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:00:07 -0600, Paul Gilmartin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Whenever the queue is empty, the queue emptier WAITs. But if the queue is storage constrained, it can fill up. What does the queue filler do then? ... I don't think there can be a general answer to that question. If the queue is full the queue filler has to stop putting stuff on the queue. That means it has to stop accepting (or generating) its input, or has to throw that input away. The significance obviously depends on the application. BTW, an example of such a constrained application is anything with a fixed number of queue elements that get shuffled among a series of queues (free, input to process1, input to process2, ...). If all the elements are on process queues, no additional work can be accepted. Pat O'Keefe -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:28:42 +0100, Lindy Mayfield wrote: Would you mind, Paul, giving a couple of examples of real life programs that you are thinking about? With apologies: It's been decades since I did it; the language was not Assembler but Pascal; it would be difficult or impossible to find the source code. I was simply single-threading one critical resource with a lock managed by CS. If the resource was available, the lock word was 0; if busy, the address of an ECB to post when it was freed. The details are lost. I know personally that I couldn't get my head around this stuff unless I imagined some sort of application and how it would work using threads. Three things came to mind: How does DB2 do it? What would an HTTP server do? What about sort that divides the work among different threads? DB2 is a mystery. MySQL is open-source, but likely does not use WAIT and POST. HTTPD could just ATTACH a task for each connection (surely Apache uses fork() instead). The supervisor task needs only to WAIT on ECBs in order to DETACH the children when they terminate. In my imaginings the total number of structures to handle was something like TotalThreads=N*Cpu_count, but was always fixed at any given time. I would have expected that sort would be I/O bound rather than compute bound, and gain little by using multiple CPUs. But I may be very wrong. I understand that neither CICS nor JES uses WAIT and POST for its subprocesses, each relying on an idiosyncratic dispatching mechanism. I would expect each would WAIT when completely idle, to relinquish the CPU to other jobs. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:28:02 -0600, Patrick O'Keefe wrote: I don't think there can be a general answer to that question. If the queue is full the queue filler has to stop putting stuff on the queue. That means it has to stop accepting (or generating) its input, or has to throw that input away. The significance obviously depends on the application. Indeed. If the ultimate requesters are customers at ATMs, it is perhaps better to tell them System Unavailable even when queuing resources are sufficient, than to keep them waiting for hours with, Your transaction is important to us; it will be processed in FIFO order ... Or give them an ETA and let them choose to cancel. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wheeler Postings
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon Brock) writes: Here, for instance: http://groups.google.com/group/bit.listserv.ibm-main/msg/7941aee482af5b48? i.e. also archived here http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006q.html#25 garlic.com and some related recent references, also about posting http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#65 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#66 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? now, a post on the subject in the original thread: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#63 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#69 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? mentions work on original relational/sql implementation, including technology transfer to endicott for sql/ds: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#systemr also mentioned was scaleup for our cluster/distributed high availability product: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp one of the people in this (ha/cmp) meeting, previously mentioned http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13 says that he handled much of the technology transfer from endicott (sql/ds) back to STL for DB2. now two of the other people in that same meeting show up a little later at a small client/server startup responsible for something called the commerce server. we were called in to consult because they wanted to do payment transactions on their server ... and also wanted to use a technology that had been invented called SSL for the implementation: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway that work is now frequently referred to as electronic commerce. 40yrs since science center installed cp67 at the univ. the last week of jan68. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? (1
Craddock, Chris wrote: Nope! After a normal post the compare value is going to be X'4000' and the swap value is going to be 0. If another post intervenes and stores another X'4000' in place of the first, then the compare is going to succeed and you'll miss a valid post. There's no way out of this dilemma. You're assuming that all POSTs will have the same completion code; since this is program dependent, you have no knowledge of the likelihood. A dilemma exists only in poorly implemented code. Either the POSTing task should wait for acknowledgment; or In anything but the most trivial case you need more application logic combined with a queuing mechanism so that missing a post is harmless. Exactly. Usually that is handled by establishing a chain of work requests (protected by CDS), followed by a POST that work has been queued. Then multiple POSTs won't cause any harm. In neither case is there a problem with the POST/WAIT design, only its use. You might as well complain that a shared enqueue doesn't protect you from changes. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, VT -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
Whenever the queue is empty, the queue emptier WAITs. But if the queue is storage constrained, it can fill up. What does the queue filler do then? There are at least two types of queues; static queues, where all of the elements are pre-allocated/formatted by the queue owner and dynamic queues where the queue elements are provided by the caller. The former case is notoriously inflexible and difficult to size adequately to avoid full queues and service denial. The latter case adds a little complexity in the termination and cleanup cases, but in most other respects is more flexible and a better design choice. In terms of performance it's a wash. They both typically use Compare and Stop :-) to add/remove queue items so neither one is going to be blazing fast, but then again there's no free lunch with serialization. My own choice is PLO which is certainly a slow instruction, but it is flexible enough to use to manage singly linked and doubly linked queues in both 31 and 64 bit forms. It's the only thing (other than a lock/latch/enq) that will allow you to add or remove an entry from anywhere in the queue atomically. CS and CDS can't do that. CC -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
Lindy Mayfield wrote: I know personally that I couldn't get my head around this stuff unless I imagined some sort of application and how it would work using threads. Assume you have a start task that is designed to service requests from VTAM terminals. With the current VTAM design, one task handles the basic VTAM interface (control blocks, exits, etc.). The mother task, when idle, waits on a list of ECBs - the task's CANCEL ECB (depending on the version of the OS, this may require authorization), the Communications ECB (to handle STOP and MODIFY operator commands), one or more work ECBs (posted by a subtask), and an STIMER ECB (required in the old days to prevent a system 522 abend if nothing much happened; also used to check for stalled processes). The mother task builds necessary control blocks, opens a log data set, etc., and establishes the VTAM interface. It then goes into a WAIT for work; a user trying to log on will drive the VTAM logon exit, which could build a request and post the work ECB. The mother task clears the ECB, and checks the request queues. Finding a logon request, it attaches a subtask, dedicated to that terminal, that builds a screen image, etc., or it could read a data set and format it for display, or do almost anything a self-sufficient program might do. Whenever it needs something from the main task, it places a request on the appropriate queue, and POSTs the work ECB. When the request is satisfied, the mother task posts the subtask's work ECB. And the mother task would post the subtask ECB when it required an unsolicited logoff, or otherwise terminate. Note that this design is arbitrary - there could be as many ECBs as there are request queues, there could be additional subtasks for things like writing to the log, reading data sets, etc. One of the last things I worked on before retiring was a task much as described above, but spread over multiple address spaces. This required lots of additional validity checking, and use of (E)CSA for working areas, but even so the basic logic wasn't all that different. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, VT -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? (1
Gerhard wrote: Craddock, Chris wrote: Nope! After a normal post the compare value is going to be X'4000' and the swap value is going to be 0. If another post intervenes and stores another X'4000' in place of the first, then the compare is going to succeed and you'll miss a valid post. There's no way out of this dilemma. You're assuming that all POSTs will have the same completion code; since this is program dependent, you have no knowledge of the likelihood. A dilemma exists only in poorly implemented code. No, I am not assuming anything, but I can assure you the great majority of posts are going to be RC=0. In any case the actual value of the POST code is immaterial here. The point is that unless you somehow guaranteed some monotonically increasing sequence of post values, then CS will fail to notice an intervening update (by POST) with the same value because the compare portion is going to see the same value and compare equal. And there really is no way out of that. Do the thought experiment! OTOH if the application can guarantee that no two posts will be issued without an intervening clearing of the ECB then there is no problem. No doubt there are cases like that but they are the least common ones in real multitasking applications. If you really did need to use the ECB more than once, you were most likely going to have to deal with some sort of interlock between posting and clearing the ECB. Or do as you say below... Either the POSTing task should wait for acknowledgment; or In anything but the most trivial case you need more application logic combined with a queuing mechanism so that missing a post is harmless. Exactly. Usually that is handled by establishing a chain of work requests (protected by CDS), followed by a POST that work has been queued. Then multiple POSTs won't cause any harm. Er... that is exactly what I've been saying. So of course I agree :-) In neither case is there a problem with the POST/WAIT design, only its use. You might as well complain that a shared enqueue doesn't protect you from changes. I've been using it a little while myself :-) and so I do agree that when used entirely within it's most tightly constrained boundaries it works. But as I pointed out earlier there are many unobvious traps for the unwary. We've already seen several in the code fragments that have been bandied around in this discussion. Those pitfalls are not documented anywhere. The macro doc is silent. The assembly language programmer's guide is silent and nobody has yet written the definitive guide to where the bodies are buried in MVS. So application code and vendor code that just works (most of the time) is far more common than you would probably ever guess. I have probably diagnosed more problems in this one area than any other. So I conclude that most developers are just unaware of the inherent problems. That ought to be fairly compelling evidence of a poor design, or at least one whose nuances are nowhere spelt out for the casual user. Therefore, I argue that the original design was poor. And don't get me started on ENQ :-) CC -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? (1
I don't understand the reams of discussion about how to handle multiple threads working on a single ECB, or even a single thread spuriously posting an ECB. It isn't what it was designed for. To me, saying that ECB is a poor design is like saying a bicycle is poor design because you can't use it to reasonably travel the 80 mile round trip to work and back. Just because you can't use it for a purpose you *want* to use it for doesn't mean it's poorly designed. Use it for the purpose it *was* designed for. If you want to do multiple task management, use a locking mechanism more suited to the task, like ENQ/DEQ or a spin lock if you can get away with it. Somebody mentioned that in Unix, there were half a dozen or so locking mechanisms that were incompatible with each other...So is also true on MVS. SETLOCK is incompatible with WAIT/POST is incompatible with ENQ/DEQ, etc. Locking mechanisms are designed to solve specific synchronization issues, with varying levels of performance and complexity, and you select the best one based on your needs. WAIT/POST is virtually identical in functionality to a unix mutex. Single waiter, single poster. It's efficient and does exactly what it is supposed to do. David Logan -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craddock, Chris Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 7:36 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? (1 Gerhard wrote: Craddock, Chris wrote: Nope! After a normal post the compare value is going to be X'4000' and the swap value is going to be 0. If another post intervenes and stores another X'4000' in place of the first, then the compare is going to succeed and you'll miss a valid post. There's no way out of this dilemma. You're assuming that all POSTs will have the same completion code; since this is program dependent, you have no knowledge of the likelihood. A dilemma exists only in poorly implemented code. No, I am not assuming anything, but I can assure you the great majority of posts are going to be RC=0. In any case the actual value of the POST code is immaterial here. The point is that unless you somehow guaranteed some monotonically increasing sequence of post values, then CS will fail to notice an intervening update (by POST) with the same value because the compare portion is going to see the same value and compare equal. And there really is no way out of that. Do the thought experiment! OTOH if the application can guarantee that no two posts will be issued without an intervening clearing of the ECB then there is no problem. No doubt there are cases like that but they are the least common ones in real multitasking applications. If you really did need to use the ECB more than once, you were most likely going to have to deal with some sort of interlock between posting and clearing the ECB. Or do as you say below... Either the POSTing task should wait for acknowledgment; or In anything but the most trivial case you need more application logic combined with a queuing mechanism so that missing a post is harmless. Exactly. Usually that is handled by establishing a chain of work requests (protected by CDS), followed by a POST that work has been queued. Then multiple POSTs won't cause any harm. Er... that is exactly what I've been saying. So of course I agree :-) In neither case is there a problem with the POST/WAIT design, only its use. You might as well complain that a shared enqueue doesn't protect you from changes. I've been using it a little while myself :-) and so I do agree that when used entirely within it's most tightly constrained boundaries it works. But as I pointed out earlier there are many unobvious traps for the unwary. We've already seen several in the code fragments that have been bandied around in this discussion. Those pitfalls are not documented anywhere. The macro doc is silent. The assembly language programmer's guide is silent and nobody has yet written the definitive guide to where the bodies are buried in MVS. So application code and vendor code that just works (most of the time) is far more common than you would probably ever guess. I have probably diagnosed more problems in this one area than any other. So I conclude that most developers are just unaware of the inherent problems. That ought to be fairly compelling evidence of a poor design, or at least one whose nuances are nowhere spelt out for the casual user. Therefore, I argue that the original design was poor. And don't get me started on ENQ :-) CC -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive
Re: I want to add virtual printer to my MFNetDisk, Any value?
I agree that having a virtual printer feature may not be very useful. I wonder, though, if a feature to create virtual tape in AWSTAPE format, either on a remote PC or on the mainframe itself as a file, would be useful. When we ran z/OS under FLEX-ES, we had the capability to run z/OS jobs that created and/or read virtual tape files in the server's file system (UnixWare in our case) in either fake-tape format (proprietary to FLEX-ES) or AWSTAPE format. The z/OS JCL had no knowledge that it was using virtual tape. This made it easy for remote developers to create and test product tapes, for example, without needing someone physically on-site to mount tapes -- since the z/OS system usually ran unattended. Once all testing was done, we would run a job to create an actual tape from the fake-tape. It seems that the framework of the MFNetDisk product could be suitable for implementing such a feature. Just a thought. Thanks, ...Rich - Original Message - From: shai hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:47 AM Subject: Re: I want to add virtual printer to my MFNetDisk, Any value? HI, Yes, I understand that virtual printers is not needed in the MF environment. Thanks, Shai On 1/21/08, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 01/18/2008 at 01:03 PM, Shai Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I want to add a small feature which I call it virtual MF printer. Why? This will enable MVS user to print to MVS virtual printer any MVS file. What's wrong with the support already in JES2 and JES3? My question is if this feature in MFNetDisk is required or not? I see no need for it. Just write SYSOUT data sets. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? (1
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:36:02 -0500, Craddock, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... I've been using it a little while myself :-) and so I do agree that when used entirely within it's most tightly constrained boundaries it works. But as I pointed out earlier there are many unobvious traps for the unwary. ... I may have missed some of the examples you cited, but it seems the failings were either misuse of WAIT/POST (as stated before, hardly the fault of the interface) or the interface's failure to check that it has been given a correctly initialized ECB (which obviously includes not being given an ECB at all). The latter would allow more graceful failures, but there would still be a failure. This function is not the only one that performs badly when it is not provided with the correct arguments. Users could (and have, I assume) included the ECB within a larger, self-identifying control block, and nest WAIT and POST within code that validates that control block. But I have a feeling you want something that goes beyond the intended purpose of POST and WAIT, not just a cleaned up version of the existing function. Pat O'Keefe -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child? (1
I don't understand the reams of discussion about how to handle multiple threads working on a single ECB, or even a single thread spuriously posting an ECB. It isn't what it was designed for. Given it was the only mechanism provided, by definition it was intended for all synchronization purposes that were conceived by its designers. And since its use in practice is far wider than the designers had in mind, it suffers a bunch of side-effects and unintended consequences. Stuff happens with a 40 year old OS! To me, saying that ECB is a poor design is like saying a bicycle is poor design because you can't use it to reasonably travel the 80 mile round trip to work and back. No. I'm saying the ECB is a numbskull design, because even a five year old can pick a bicycle out of any lineup, but not even an expert can reliably pick an ECB unless it is actually being waited on. C'mon seriously. Not even a freakin eye catcher? Even in the mid '60s that was just plain dumb design. Just because you can't use it for a purpose you *want* to use it for doesn't mean it's poorly designed. Use it for the purpose it *was* designed for. I -HAVE- been using those services in heavily multi-tasked, multi-address space system code for longer than I care to remember. And in that time I have seen an amazing array of who'da thunkit gotchas with wait/post. I think I'm entitled to a strong opinion on the basis of experience at least :-) Now arguably in the most narrow sense, all of those quirks were due to programming errors or bad assumptions on the part of the application developers. But since wait/post is the only tool that came in the tool box and there were no safety instructions in the doc it is no wonder more than a few folks got their eyes poked out, or gave up because they couldn't get their multitasking application to go. OS/360 and its offspring are like that. It's probably the most user-vicious system around, but we've all gotten used to its quirks - kinda like learning to run with scissors. Familiarity with a bad design and the ability to code around a bad design or to effectively use the artifacts of a bad design do not alter the fact that the underlying design is flawed. Really. If you want to do multiple task management, use a locking mechanism more suited to the task, like ENQ/DEQ or a spin lock if you can get away with it. You're comparing apples and fish. Locking has nothing to do with it. Outside of the sup-state-only suspend/resume function, wait/post was the only primitive available for synchronizing separate units of work until the pause/release function came along in OS/390 2.5 or thereabouts. And that one gets the William Tell near-miss award too. But it's a hell of a lot safer for users. Yeah the path length is longer, but so what. WAIT/POST is virtually identical in functionality to a unix mutex. Single waiter, single poster. It's efficient and does exactly what it is supposed to do. Unix is no poster child for coherent design either, but if you think I am arguing that wait/post doesn't work, you have missed my point entirely. My bad. CC -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
