Re: SYS3 datasets

[David Purdy]

>From our standard set up over 20 years ago, hlq SYS1 is for IBM ServerPac 
>datasets, SYS2  is for LNKLST libraries, SYS3 is for other products.
Second level qualifier for SYS3 and SYS3 reflect the product.  Each res volume 
has its own set of IBM etc, root, Java, and so on

It works.

Only SYS1 and SYS2 are in the master catalog (okay, CPAC and other HLQs for 
z/OS installation).

David



On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 August Carideo/RYE/US <august.cari...@avon.com> 
wrote:
We use them here

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of DiBianca, Robert
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 4:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SYS3 datasets

I see 3 SYS3.** datasets at my shop, and the past 5 mainframe shops that I've 
seen have never used SYS3 (that goes back to the 1980's).

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of R.S.
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:34 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SYS3 datasets

W dniu 2017-09-25 o 04:18, Tony Thigpen pisze:
> We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
> "Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."
>
> So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs 
> did not follow such a rule.)
>
> I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.
>
> Opinions?
>
> How many other sites follow such a rule?
>

I've seen many shops in Poland and abroad and *never* seen such rule.
I see no rationale behind, maybe except "mama said so".

My €0.02


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




==


--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku 
przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie 
jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem 
niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania 
adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie 
lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być 
karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie 
zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość 
włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

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www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.plsąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII 
Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców 
KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał 
zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


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Re: SYS3 datasets

[August Carideo/RYE/US]

We use them here

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of DiBianca, Robert
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 4:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SYS3 datasets

I see 3 SYS3.** datasets at my shop, and the past 5 mainframe shops that I've 
seen have never used SYS3 (that goes back to the 1980's).

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of R.S.
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:34 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SYS3 datasets

W dniu 2017-09-25 o 04:18, Tony Thigpen pisze:
> We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
> "Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."
>
> So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs 
> did not follow such a rule.)
>
> I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.
>
> Opinions?
>
> How many other sites follow such a rule?
>

I've seen many shops in Poland and abroad and *never* seen such rule.
I see no rationale behind, maybe except "mama said so".

My €0.02


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




==


--
 Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku 
przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie 
jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem 
niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania 
adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie 
lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być 
karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie 
zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość 
włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

 This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is 
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 mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, 
www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.plsąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII 
Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców 
KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał 
zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


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Re: SYS3 datasets

[DiBianca, Robert]

I see 3 SYS3.** datasets at my shop, and the past 5 mainframe shops that I've 
seen have never used SYS3 (that goes back to the 1980's).

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of R.S.
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:34 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SYS3 datasets

W dniu 2017-09-25 o 04:18, Tony Thigpen pisze:
> We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
> "Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."
>
> So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs
> did not follow such a rule.)
>
> I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.
>
> Opinions?
>
> How many other sites follow such a rule?
>

I've seen many shops in Poland and abroad and *never* seen such rule.
I see no rationale behind, maybe except "mama said so".

My €0.02


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




==


--
 Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku 
przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie 
jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem 
niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania 
adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie 
lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być 
karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie 
zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość 
włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

 This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is 
intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be 
received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you 
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punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender 
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permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to 
hard drive.

 mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, 
www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.plsąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII 
Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców 
KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał 
zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


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Re: SYS3 datasets

[R.S.]

W dniu 2017-09-25 o 04:18, Tony Thigpen pisze:

We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
"Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."

So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs 
did not follow such a rule.)


I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.

Opinions?

How many other sites follow such a rule?



I've seen many shops in Poland and abroad and *never* seen such rule.
I see no rationale behind, maybe except "mama said so".

My €0.02


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




==


   --
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku 
przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie 
jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem 
niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania 
adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie 
lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być 
karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie 
zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość 
włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is 
intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be 
received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you 
are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to 
forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, 
distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be 
punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender 
immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete 
permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to 
hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, 
www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.plsąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII 
Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców 
KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał 
zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.
   


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Re: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 10:13:41 +0200, R.S. wrote:
>
>Interesting. How does it relate to dataset merge? During ServerPac
>installation process one can merge several libraries (with like
>attributes) into single library.
>
From the ISV's point of view, IBM kindly provides the tool (GIMZIP) for
packaging for RECEIVE FROMNETWORK/FROMNTS, but not for ShopZ
nor for ServerPac, so I have no familiarity with those.  I suppose more
sophisticated tools might be available at a price.  Further, mainframe
software was a minority LoB for my employer and we could not get
an exception from packaging standards required that any software
product or service be delivered in a *.zip archive containing a README.*
file and an unspecified collection of payload files.  We delivered a
.zip archive containing the README, the GIMZIP package and installation
instructions and JCL samples.

-- gil

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Re: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)

[Edward Gould]

> On Oct 2, 2017, at 3:18 AM, R.S.  wrote:
> 
> 
> Well, I "was born" long after IBM started using other HLQs, not only SYS1. 
> And see no problem with that.  Including RACF definitions which are really 
> simple to manage. The "rock solid SYS1 rule" seems to be a little bit 
> obsolete for last 20 years.
> IMHO there are less troubles and surprises when following current IBM rules, 
> than when trying to change them.
> 
> Regards
> -- 
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland

To me it was a quick change and it was painless. I don’t have a hardcopy of our 
sys1 rule. BIIRC we set up to explicitly name the datasets we allowed and 
anything else was verbotten.
We were also a strictly COBOL shop so things like sys1.maclib was off limits. 
The auditors would not allow us to write rules, so if we were in on Sunday 0300 
and a rule had to go in at the same time, the security people were there. Hey 
if they won’t give me access then the people who can are there along side.
In downtown Chicago generally we couldn’t find a restaurant open around then so 
everybody bought the own coffee and donuts.
The security people hated us because of this (I had a good relation to the head 
of the security group so he didn’t complain), When I had to do some emergency 
mass changes to production because JES2 didn’t warn us ahead of time (No hold 
data) the security people were there so I had someone looking over my shoulder 
for stuff like this, but I did not mind. The installation meeting the next day 
to explain was always fun. Try explaining ++HOLD to people that could barely 
understand JCL. 
I was very proactive and always looked at reports on violations as it probably 
meant I was going to have to battle a programming supervisor and I loved those 
battles.

Ed


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Re: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)

[R.S.]

W dniu 2017-09-29 o 21:15, Edward Gould pisze:

On Sep 29, 2017, at 9:46 AM, R.S.  wrote:

W dniu 2017-09-25 o 23:23, Jesse 1 Robinson pisze:

ServerPac supplies a number of default names with three qualifiers such as 
SYS1.TCPIP.llq. We routinely eliminate any middle qualifier as being both 
redundant and confusing.

1. SMPE knows data sets by llq. SMPE cannot manage hlq.mlq1.llq and 
hlq.mlq2.llq concurrently. JCLIN does not know from anything other than llq.
2. Who can remember which data set groups have an mlq and which do not?

Does anyone attempt to carry these default names forward to production?

Ad 1. IMHO SMPE knows datasets by DDDEFs, which are usually equal to LLQ, but 
need not to be.
Ad 2. It's much better to look at dslist, not to remember.

Yes, we do carry most of default names, including 3-qualifiers ones. No animal 
was hurt because of that.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




Radoslaw:

IBM *used* to use only sys1. Then they slipped a few more in, then a few more 
in and kept increasing it.
I got sick and tired of updating the security product almost every 6 month to 
accommodate these changes. Then the security changed from us to a security 
group. Then all hell broke loose, they basically refused to do the update we 
requested as they became a burden to the group (that was their claim). I 
decided at that point it was easier for me to change than depend on an outside 
entity. I made the decission to hell with IBM naming standards and stay with 
sys1.
It was easier for me to rename the datasets and recatalog them than for the 
security people to get involved (we had a rock solid sys1 rule). Since I had 
control of all compile procedures as well that was a minor additional work for 
me to do.
The CEE and the ICQ (which we never used) and the others (ISR,ISP etc) were 
better maintained by me and only needed minor work.
I chucked IBM’s PITA naming conventions and never looked back. To this day you 
will not find any of those oddball datasets on any system that I am responsible 
for.
System installs (and blackouts although never used) were always a non event. 
One time I had to almost backout a JES2 change which they did not document but 
I used a PDS mass update programs to fix that.
The Hardcoded names like TCPIP… I had to live with and I have never forgiven 
IBM for doing such an jerky thing. The one exception I had to live with, which 
still boils my blood every time I have to deal with them.
BTW, IMO TCPIP was the starter of the of the evil IBM has set loose on sysprogs 
the world over.


Well, I "was born" long after IBM started using other HLQs, not only 
SYS1. And see no problem with that.  Including RACF definitions which 
are really simple to manage. The "rock solid SYS1 rule" seems to be a 
little bit obsolete for last 20 years.
IMHO there are less troubles and surprises when following current IBM 
rules, than when trying to change them.


Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




==


   --
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku 
przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie 
jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem 
niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania 
adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie 
lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być 
karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie 
zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość 
włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is 
intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be 
received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you 
are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to 
forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, 
distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be 
punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender 
immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete 
permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to 
hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, 
www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.plsąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII 
Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców 
KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał 
zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.
   


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Re: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)

[R.S.]

W dniu 2017-09-29 o 21:54, Paul Gilmartin pisze:

On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 16:46:56 +0200, R.S. wrote:


W dniu 2017-09-25 o 23:23, Jesse 1 Robinson pisze:

ServerPac supplies a number of default names with three qualifiers such as 
SYS1.TCPIP.llq. We routinely eliminate any middle qualifier as being both 
redundant and confusing.

1. SMPE knows data sets by llq. SMPE cannot manage hlq.mlq1.llq and 
hlq.mlq2.llq concurrently. JCLIN does not know from anything other than llq.
2. Who can remember which data set groups have an mlq and which do not?

Does anyone attempt to carry these default names forward to production?

Ad 1. IMHO SMPE knows datasets by DDDEFs, which are usually equal to
LLQ, but need not to be.
Ad 2. It's much better to look at dslist, not to remember.


Some systems programmers dislike DDDEFs, intensely.

In some cases, it's stronger than your "usually".  If UCLIN contains:
 //SYSLMOD  DD  DSN=hlq.mlq.llq
... llq must be supplied as either a name of a DDDEF in the target zone or
as the name of a DD statement in the APPLY step.  (Is this true for any
DDNAME other than SYSLMOD?)


Interesting. How does it relate to dataset merge? During ServerPac 
installation process one can merge several libraries (with like 
attributes) into single library.



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




==


   --
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku 
przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie 
jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem 
niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania 
adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie 
lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być 
karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie 
zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość 
włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

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Re: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)

[Bruce Hewson]

Hi,

SMPE has a convention that the DDDEF name match the LLQ for the dataset in the 
TARGET & DLIB zones.

It doesn't care about the qualifiers.

JCLIN requires that in the dummy DD card the LLQ matches the DDDEF, not the 
actual dataset name.

So for different zones you can have different datasets for the same LLQ/DDDEF.

In our case we like to extend the dataset name to include a product identifier 
(as the 2nd qualifier)
and a target zone identifier as the 3rd qualifier.

It does make things a little easier when going from the dataset name to locate 
the correct target zone.

Regards
Bruce Hewson

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Re: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 16:46:56 +0200, R.S. wrote:

>W dniu 2017-09-25 o 23:23, Jesse 1 Robinson pisze:
>> ServerPac supplies a number of default names with three qualifiers such as 
>> SYS1.TCPIP.llq. We routinely eliminate any middle qualifier as being both 
>> redundant and confusing.
>>
>> 1. SMPE knows data sets by llq. SMPE cannot manage hlq.mlq1.llq and 
>> hlq.mlq2.llq concurrently. JCLIN does not know from anything other than llq.
>> 2. Who can remember which data set groups have an mlq and which do not?
>>
>> Does anyone attempt to carry these default names forward to production?
>
>Ad 1. IMHO SMPE knows datasets by DDDEFs, which are usually equal to
>LLQ, but need not to be.
>Ad 2. It's much better to look at dslist, not to remember.
>
Some systems programmers dislike DDDEFs, intensely.

In some cases, it's stronger than your "usually".  If UCLIN contains:
//SYSLMOD  DD  DSN=hlq.mlq.llq
... llq must be supplied as either a name of a DDDEF in the target zone or
as the name of a DD statement in the APPLY step.  (Is this true for any
DDNAME other than SYSLMOD?)

SMP/E might benefit systems programmers if it provided symbol substitution
in UCLIN an JCLIN.  I have generally followed the practice of a predecessor and
supplied tailoring macros to achieve this effect prior to SUBMIT.  If I had 
known
years ago the concerns discussed in this thread I might have supplied better
defaults.

>Yes, we do carry most of default names, including 3-qualifiers ones. No
>animal was hurt because of that.

-- gil

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Re: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)

[Edward Gould]

> On Sep 29, 2017, at 9:46 AM, R.S.  wrote:
> 
> W dniu 2017-09-25 o 23:23, Jesse 1 Robinson pisze:
>> ServerPac supplies a number of default names with three qualifiers such as 
>> SYS1.TCPIP.llq. We routinely eliminate any middle qualifier as being both 
>> redundant and confusing.
>> 
>> 1. SMPE knows data sets by llq. SMPE cannot manage hlq.mlq1.llq and 
>> hlq.mlq2.llq concurrently. JCLIN does not know from anything other than llq.
>> 2. Who can remember which data set groups have an mlq and which do not?
>> 
>> Does anyone attempt to carry these default names forward to production?
> 
> Ad 1. IMHO SMPE knows datasets by DDDEFs, which are usually equal to LLQ, but 
> need not to be.
> Ad 2. It's much better to look at dslist, not to remember.
> 
> Yes, we do carry most of default names, including 3-qualifiers ones. No 
> animal was hurt because of that.
> 
> -- 
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
> 
> 
> 

Radoslaw:

IBM *used* to use only sys1. Then they slipped a few more in, then a few more 
in and kept increasing it.
I got sick and tired of updating the security product almost every 6 month to 
accommodate these changes. Then the security changed from us to a security 
group. Then all hell broke loose, they basically refused to do the update we 
requested as they became a burden to the group (that was their claim). I 
decided at that point it was easier for me to change than depend on an outside 
entity. I made the decission to hell with IBM naming standards and stay with 
sys1.  
It was easier for me to rename the datasets and recatalog them than for the 
security people to get involved (we had a rock solid sys1 rule). Since I had 
control of all compile procedures as well that was a minor additional work for 
me to do.
The CEE and the ICQ (which we never used) and the others (ISR,ISP etc) were 
better maintained by me and only needed minor work.
I chucked IBM’s PITA naming conventions and never looked back. To this day you 
will not find any of those oddball datasets on any system that I am responsible 
for.
System installs (and blackouts although never used) were always a non event. 
One time I had to almost backout a JES2 change which they did not document but 
I used a PDS mass update programs to fix that.
The Hardcoded names like TCPIP… I had to live with and I have never forgiven 
IBM for doing such an jerky thing. The one exception I had to live with, which 
still boils my blood every time I have to deal with them.
BTW, IMO TCPIP was the starter of the of the evil IBM has set loose on sysprogs 
the world over. 

Ed

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Re: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)

[R.S.]

W dniu 2017-09-25 o 23:23, Jesse 1 Robinson pisze:

ServerPac supplies a number of default names with three qualifiers such as 
SYS1.TCPIP.llq. We routinely eliminate any middle qualifier as being both 
redundant and confusing.

1. SMPE knows data sets by llq. SMPE cannot manage hlq.mlq1.llq and 
hlq.mlq2.llq concurrently. JCLIN does not know from anything other than llq.
2. Who can remember which data set groups have an mlq and which do not?

Does anyone attempt to carry these default names forward to production?


Ad 1. IMHO SMPE knows datasets by DDDEFs, which are usually equal to 
LLQ, but need not to be.

Ad 2. It's much better to look at dslist, not to remember.

Yes, we do carry most of default names, including 3-qualifiers ones. No 
animal was hurt because of that.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




==


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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Ed Jaffe]

On 9/24/2017 7:18 PM, Tony Thigpen wrote:

We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
"Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."


Don't think I've *ever* seen the SYS3 HLQ used by our customers for our 
software. That doesn't mean nobody does it, just that I can't remember 
having seen it done. (They normally use 'SYS2' or some non-SYS HLQ 
altogether such as 'EJES' or 'ZHISR').


We use the SYSn (1-4) HLQs thusly:

 * SYS1 - IBM data sets (e.g., SYS1.PARMLIB)
 o Master catalog. Non-SMS
 * SYS2 - PSI-maintained analogs to IBM's (e.g., SYS2.PARMLIB), usually
   concatenated in front of IBM's
 o Master catalog. Non-SMS
 * SYS3 - System data sets (dynamic SVC dumps, etc)
 o User catalog. SMS-managed
 * SYS4 - System data sets (e.g., IPLPARM)
 o User catalog. Non-SMS


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Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Art Gutowski]

On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 23:39:40 -0500, Paul Gilmartin  wrote:

>On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 23:27:40 -0500, Brian Westerman wrote:
>Vendors ought to suggest installation paths for their software products.
Agreed.

>SYS3.vendor.** seems like a good idea.  Or incorporating the vendors'
>registered element prefix.
For some, perhaps, but almost assuredly not for all.

>Shops ought to follow those vendor suggestions:
Bullocks.  Shops need to do what makes sense for them.  There are certain 
aspects of software installation where vendor requirements are clear and ought 
to be followed without exception, or bad things can happen.  Dataset names 
ought not to be a problem area. As for registered prefix, these ought to be 
incorporated into LLQ/SMPE DDDEF names.  It may make sense as a mid- or 
high-level qualifier to some, but it ought not to be a requirement.

>o It allows trying samples in the vendor documents with less tailoring
>  of DD statements.
ServerPac and other sufficiently sophisticated installation tools can handle 
the bulk of this tailoring.  JCL and System symbols can make what's left much 
easier.  A system programmer ought to know how to make a few JCL or source code 
changes to get a sample working...and a newbie can be taught, no matter what 
the PHBs have read in the trade rags or social media.

>o It makes programmer skill sets more portable.  (But management
>  might consider that a bad idea.)
I fail to see how learning a shop's standards impacts skill set portability.  
SMP/E and other system programmer skills are not null and void because one shop 
uses SYS3 and another uses a separate HLQ for each vendor.  It just takes time 
to assimilate into the environment. I learned how to ride a bicycle in the US.  
I don't have to re-learn how to ride if I move to the UK, I just have to learn 
to ride on the other side of the road and look first in the opposite direction 
before crossing a road.

There are potentially as many standards as there are shops to develop them.  
Software installation tools, the people that develop them, and the people that 
use them, ought to be flexible enough to cope.

Art Gutowski
General Motors, LLC

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Edward Gould]

> On Sep 27, 2017, at 12:53 AM, Bruce Hewson <bruce_hew...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> In my almost 40 years of MVS support, the only time I came across SYS3 was in 
> a very large, multi-site, company.
> 
> For security segregation each subsystem group was assigned a unique SYS% 
> hlq..   SYS2,SYS3,SYS4,etc
> 
> Not an issue for MVS support as all the product datasets were placed on 
> cloned sysres sets.
> 
> All the SYS% datasets get cataloged in the system Master catalog.
> 
> No sysres dataset is ever migrated by HSM.
> 
> Once you get used to the site's dataset naming convention, anything can work.
> 

Bruce,, 
That looks like an idea situation. Most of us are in a less than idea situation.
When say sys3 datasets are managed by another group, (we) could not dictate 
anything to them. They had their own methodology.
One day during IPL, indeed one of their datasets somehow got migrated, if 
memory serves me it was a STK load lib.
They were in a catch 22 situation. I let them fumble around for 30 minutes and 
since we were getting close to market open time. I fixed the issue.
I left a note on their supervisors door and told him they had to conform to our 
standard or this would happen again.
That afternoon we were invited to their group meeting and we gave them the 
rules. Everyone of them were argued about,
I said look either you conform or we will take away this type of software so we 
won’t have anymore outages. That got a little a few more arguments.
I said look, next time myself or any of the group might not be around and the 
markets won’t open and who will get blamed for that?
We ended up taking control back for any system critical product.
Ed

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Bruce Hewson]

In my almost 40 years of MVS support, the only time I came across SYS3 was in a 
very large, multi-site, company.

For security segregation each subsystem group was assigned a unique SYS% hlq..  
 SYS2,SYS3,SYS4,etc

Not an issue for MVS support as all the product datasets were placed on cloned 
sysres sets.

All the SYS% datasets get cataloged in the system Master catalog.

No sysres dataset is ever migrated by HSM.

Once you get used to the site's dataset naming convention, anything can work.

Regards
Bruce

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Grinsell, Don]

We use SYS1, SYST and SYS9 here.  The rationale is lost to history.

--
 
Donald Grinsell, Systems Programmer
Enterprise Technology Services Bureau
SITSD/Montana Department of Administration
406.444.2983 (D)


"Never give in, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, 
never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense."
~ Winston Churchill


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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Rob Schramm]

The only Rule is that you will definitely find that there are exceptions to
almost every rule.  I ran into a guy that wanted TCPIP data sets to have a
HLQ of SYS3.  I thought it was "less smart" .. but it made him happy
and stopped his incessant tirades on the subject.  As long as I know where
things are and people are mucking with stuff on the res pack.. I am pretty
chill.  I prefer to have things in as few places rather than as many places
as possible... less to remember when trying to remember things in the
middle of the night.

As long as the rules/conventions are somewhat consistent within your shop..
that is certainly a good place to start.

Just make sure that you don't shoot yourself in the foot on your way to
"being like everyone else".  Migrating to new conventions can have all
sorts of unintended consequences.

Rob Schramm



On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 11:16 AM Edward Gould 
wrote:

> > On Sep 25, 2017, at 11:28 PM, Anthony Thompson <
> anthony.thomp...@nt.gov.au> wrote:
> >
> > I've worked at a few different shops, and I've seen that SYS2, SYS3,
> SYS4 HLQ convention a several times.
> >
> > It's a hangover from days of yore, around about the 10th century CE,
> when link-listed datasets had to be catalogued in the master catalogue. The
> thinking went: since SYS1 files are catalogued in the master catalogue for
> IBM datasets, let's create SYSx HLQ's for non-IBM datasets that need to be
> in the master catalogue too. Not necessary in these enlightened times of
> course, but those original conventions tend to hang around.
> >
> > Ant.
>
>
> Well as I see it by your explanation you make your dataset name choice and
> put it in the linklst and what happens in the next IPL when DFHSM isn’t up
> yet to recall the dataset that has been migrated?
>
> There are side issues you have to think about like this.There are other
> issues as well.
>
> Ed
>
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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Edward Gould]

> On Sep 25, 2017, at 11:28 PM, Anthony Thompson  
> wrote:
> 
> I've worked at a few different shops, and I've seen that SYS2, SYS3, SYS4 HLQ 
> convention a several times.
> 
> It's a hangover from days of yore, around about the 10th century CE, when 
> link-listed datasets had to be catalogued in the master catalogue. The 
> thinking went: since SYS1 files are catalogued in the master catalogue for 
> IBM datasets, let's create SYSx HLQ's for non-IBM datasets that need to be in 
> the master catalogue too. Not necessary in these enlightened times of course, 
> but those original conventions tend to hang around.
> 
> Ant.


Well as I see it by your explanation you make your dataset name choice and put 
it in the linklst and what happens in the next IPL when DFHSM isn’t up yet to 
recall the dataset that has been migrated?

There are side issues you have to think about like this.There are other issues 
as well.

Ed

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Anthony Thompson]

I've worked at a few different shops, and I've seen that SYS2, SYS3, SYS4 HLQ 
convention a several times.

It's a hangover from days of yore, around about the 10th century CE, when 
link-listed datasets had to be catalogued in the master catalogue. The thinking 
went: since SYS1 files are catalogued in the master catalogue for IBM datasets, 
let's create SYSx HLQ's for non-IBM datasets that need to be in the master 
catalogue too. Not necessary in these enlightened times of course, but those 
original conventions tend to hang around.

Ant.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Edward Gould
Sent: Tuesday, 26 September 2017 12:21 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SYS3 datasets

> On Sep 25, 2017, at 6:20 AM, van der Grijn, Bart (B) <bvandergr...@dow.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
> "Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."
> 
> So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs 
> did not follow such a rule.)
> 
> I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.
> 
> Opinions?
> 
> How many other sites follow such a rule?
> 
> --
> Tony Thigpen

Tony,
We started out in that direction, but found that some vendors products *HAD* to 
be in the linklst. I refused to put a sys3 dataset in the linkliest PERIOD. One 
of the reasons was that there would be a plethora  of datasets and there was no 
accounting of who put this where and why.
That got stopped after a year. I also didn’t want people that left any dirt 
they may have left either by accident or on purpose anything in the linklst (I 
won’t tell you about an incident we had that when the auditors found out they 
jumped on us up and down to get rid of them. I agreed but they wanted it done 
today and I said maybe next week as we had something major going in (it was 30+ 
years ago and I don’t remember details).

Ed


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Re: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)

[Lester, Bob]

Hi,

Just chiming in with what we do.  Note that I will not attempt to 
rationalize any of this!

   XXX - IBM supplied DSNs.  (CSF.**, BDT.**, etc)  Distribution/Target 
Libraries.  Mostly. Lives in the MCAT.
   SYS1 - IBM supplied critical DSNs. (SYS1.PARMLIB, SYS1.MANx, SYS1.SIEALNKE 
(?))  Mostly. Lives in the MCAT
   SYS2 - IBM/Vendor Loadlibs/Program Libraries that need to be in the LNKLST.  
Most are APF-Authorized, some are not.  Mostly.  Lives in the MCAT.
   SYS3 - Vendor Software.  (SYS3.CA.TMS.**, etc...).  Not in LNKLST.  May be 
APF-Authorized.  Lives in USERCAT.
   SYS4  - CICS System files.  Copies in SYS2 are LNKLST and APF-Authorized as 
appropriate.
   SYS5 - NCP.  Remember NCP?
   SYS6 - SAS.  I have NO idea why, but I consider it a tribute to Dr. Merrill 
to have an HLQ just for his stuff.  (and we don’t' even have SAS these days!)  
:-)

Thanks!
BobL


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 5:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets) [ EXTERNAL ]

I misspoke in my original post. The three-qualifier data set names were our own 
choice to preserve the ServerPac qualifier but still fit into our naming 
standards. It was not a whimsical choice. We have 7 SAF-plexes to maintain. 
Introducing even one new HLQ means a lot of work to make all seven work for us. 
So at first we appended SYS1 to the front, making a three qualifier name with 
no SAF prep work required. Eventually we decided that the ServerPac HLQ was 
pointless and just removed it in subsequent releases. All data sets are now 
SYS1. with the necessarily unique llq that SMPE knows.

So my real question is whether you set up and maintain the ServerPac HLQs or 
just drop them as we do? As I said earlier, I don't see any benefit worth the 
trouble they are to manage. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Gibney, Dave
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 2:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)

My SererPac(s) have always come as TCPIP.llq, CEE.llq, ASM.llq etc. and I've 
kept them. We did have a collision once before BMC bought IOA.  IBM won ...

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 2:23 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)
> 
> ServerPac supplies a number of default names with three qualifiers 
> such as SYS1.TCPIP.llq. We routinely eliminate any middle qualifier as 
> being both redundant and confusing.
> 
> 1. SMPE knows data sets by llq. SMPE cannot manage hlq.mlq1.llq and 
> hlq.mlq2.llq concurrently. JCLIN does not know from anything other than llq.
> 2. Who can remember which data set groups have an mlq and which do not?
> 
> Does anyone attempt to carry these default names forward to production?
> 
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> robin...@sce.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Gibney, Dave
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 1:00 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: SYS3 datasets
> 
> To my knowledge, we've never had any SYS3 datasets. Kinda makes me 
> cringe :) There's still a couple SYS2 from very old habits, but in 
> general, we stick with what IBM provides for IBM and usually what the 
> ISV suggests for other.


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Re: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

I misspoke in my original post. The three-qualifier data set names were our own 
choice to preserve the ServerPac qualifier but still fit into our naming 
standards. It was not a whimsical choice. We have 7 SAF-plexes to maintain. 
Introducing even one new HLQ means a lot of work to make all seven work for us. 
So at first we appended SYS1 to the front, making a three qualifier name with 
no SAF prep work required. Eventually we decided that the ServerPac HLQ was 
pointless and just removed it in subsequent releases. All data sets are now 
SYS1. with the necessarily unique llq that SMPE knows.

So my real question is whether you set up and maintain the ServerPac HLQs or 
just drop them as we do? As I said earlier, I don't see any benefit worth the 
trouble they are to manage. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Gibney, Dave
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 2:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)

My SererPac(s) have always come as TCPIP.llq, CEE.llq, ASM.llq etc. and I've 
kept them. We did have a collision once before BMC bought IOA.  IBM won ...

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 2:23 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)
> 
> ServerPac supplies a number of default names with three qualifiers 
> such as SYS1.TCPIP.llq. We routinely eliminate any middle qualifier as 
> being both redundant and confusing.
> 
> 1. SMPE knows data sets by llq. SMPE cannot manage hlq.mlq1.llq and 
> hlq.mlq2.llq concurrently. JCLIN does not know from anything other than llq.
> 2. Who can remember which data set groups have an mlq and which do not?
> 
> Does anyone attempt to carry these default names forward to production?
> 
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> robin...@sce.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Gibney, Dave
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 1:00 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: SYS3 datasets
> 
> To my knowledge, we've never had any SYS3 datasets. Kinda makes me 
> cringe :) There's still a couple SYS2 from very old habits, but in 
> general, we stick with what IBM provides for IBM and usually what the 
> ISV suggests for other.


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Re: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)

[Gibney, Dave]

My SererPac(s) have always come as TCPIP.llq, CEE.llq, ASM.llq etc. and I've 
kept them. We did have a collision once before BMC bought IOA.  IBM won ...

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 2:23 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)
> 
> ServerPac supplies a number of default names with three qualifiers such as
> SYS1.TCPIP.llq. We routinely eliminate any middle qualifier as being both
> redundant and confusing.
> 
> 1. SMPE knows data sets by llq. SMPE cannot manage hlq.mlq1.llq and
> hlq.mlq2.llq concurrently. JCLIN does not know from anything other than llq.
> 2. Who can remember which data set groups have an mlq and which do not?
> 
> Does anyone attempt to carry these default names forward to production?
> 
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> robin...@sce.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On Behalf Of Gibney, Dave
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 1:00 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: SYS3 datasets
> 
> To my knowledge, we've never had any SYS3 datasets. Kinda makes me
> cringe :) There's still a couple SYS2 from very old habits, but in general, we
> stick with what IBM provides for IBM and usually what the ISV suggests for
> other.
> 
> 
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SYS1 names (was SYS3 datasets)

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

ServerPac supplies a number of default names with three qualifiers such as 
SYS1.TCPIP.llq. We routinely eliminate any middle qualifier as being both 
redundant and confusing.

1. SMPE knows data sets by llq. SMPE cannot manage hlq.mlq1.llq and 
hlq.mlq2.llq concurrently. JCLIN does not know from anything other than llq. 
2. Who can remember which data set groups have an mlq and which do not? 

Does anyone attempt to carry these default names forward to production?

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Gibney, Dave
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 1:00 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: SYS3 datasets

To my knowledge, we've never had any SYS3 datasets. Kinda makes me cringe :) 
There's still a couple SYS2 from very old habits, but in general, we stick with 
what IBM provides for IBM and usually what the ISV suggests for other.


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Re: SYS3 datasets

[van der Grijn, Bart (B)]

"So if you plan to use anything other than 'SYS1' for such purposes, be sure 
that you put the whole set into MCAT."

Or use volsers in your PROGxx members if that's a practical alternative. 

In our newer environments (all DB2) we use one single SYSRES and all 
link-listed libraries are on that SYSRES. Every LNKLST and APF member in PROGxx 
has VOLUME() coded. No catalog involved.

In our older environments it's pretty much the same thing, except that we have 
a couple of local libraries that are not on SYSRES. We hard code the VOLSER as 
they never move. 

Bart

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 3:15 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SYS3 datasets

As others have said, there is no universal rule, just conventions adopted in 
each shop--or in each mind! I personally think that 'SYS3' for 3rd party 
products is a pretty cute mnemonic, but it's certainly not pervasive. One 
requirement that we recently got reminded of is that a link list data sets must 
be cataloged in the master catalog for 'normal' processing. You can use a user 
cataloged data set with restrictions:

"If you plan to use a user catalog, you should be aware that the system will 
not find the data set unless you specify both the name of the data set and the 
volume serial number (VOLSER) of the DASD volume on which the data set resides. 
(This restriction also applies if you are defining the LNKLST concatenation in 
LNKLSTxx.)"

Specifically, we tried to link-list a user catalog library just for an IEFSSNxx 
init routine. Module was not found. So if you plan to use anything other than 
'SYS1' for such purposes, be sure that you put the whole set into MCAT.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

As others have said, there is no universal rule, just conventions adopted in 
each shop--or in each mind! I personally think that 'SYS3' for 3rd party 
products is a pretty cute mnemonic, but it's certainly not pervasive. One 
requirement that we recently got reminded of is that a link list data sets must 
be cataloged in the master catalog for 'normal' processing. You can use a user 
cataloged data set with restrictions:

"If you plan to use a user catalog, you should be aware that the system will 
not find the data set unless you specify both the name of the data set and the 
volume serial number (VOLSER) of the DASD volume on which the data set resides. 
(This restriction also applies if you are defining the LNKLST concatenation in 
LNKLSTxx.)"

Specifically, we tried to link-list a user catalog library just for an IEFSSNxx 
init routine. Module was not found. So if you plan to use anything other than 
'SYS1' for such purposes, be sure that you put the whole set into MCAT.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 10:20 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: SYS3 datasets

Unfortunately and fortunately I've had the opportunity to work in many 
different shops, the phrase 'almost all shops use SYS3' is just B.S. 


It all comes down to who started or documented the standards for that company 
or site, I've worked for companies that added a site ID to a HLQ, the standards 
were company wide, some sites had rules that OEM or vendor products were 
SYSP1.vender.product.libtype, and when multiple systems joined a sysplex SYS8 
was used for sysplex datasets, so the rule is more a standard for the site or 
company. some very strange and don't make much sense, like the outsourcing 
company I worked for tried to force OEM* to the HLQ for program products, when 
OTHER standards were already in place in a 16 system sysplex with multiple 
customers, try forcing a long standing customer to accept that change :( same 
standards are being used for the Unix directory structure, everyone has an 
opinion on how it should be designed and they're no right or wrong way as long 
as everyone adheres to the standards. 




my 2 cents 




Carmen 


- Original Message -

From: "Tony Thigpen" <t...@vse2pdf.com> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2017 9:18:05 PM 
Subject: SYS3 datasets 

We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that: 
"Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software." 

So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs 
did not follow such a rule.) 

I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule. 

Opinions? 

How many other sites follow such a rule? 

-- 
Tony 


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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Carmen Vitullo]

Unfortunately and fortunately I've had the opportunity to work in many 
different shops, the phrase 'almost all shops use SYS3' is just B.S. 


It all comes down to who started or documented the standards for that company 
or site, I've worked for companies that added a site ID to a HLQ, the standards 
were company wide, some sites had rules that OEM or vendor products were 
SYSP1.vender.product.libtype, and when multiple systems joined a sysplex SYS8 
was used for sysplex datasets, so the rule is more a standard for the site or 
company. some very strange and don't make much sense, like the outsourcing 
company I worked for tried to force OEM* to the HLQ for program products, when 
OTHER standards were already in place in a 16 system sysplex with multiple 
customers, try forcing a long standing customer to accept that change :( 
same standards are being used for the Unix directory structure, everyone has an 
opinion on how it should be designed and they're no right or wrong way as long 
as everyone adheres to the standards. 




my 2 cents 




Carmen 


- Original Message -

From: "Tony Thigpen" <t...@vse2pdf.com> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2017 9:18:05 PM 
Subject: SYS3 datasets 

We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that: 
"Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software." 

So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs 
did not follow such a rule.) 

I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule. 

Opinions? 

How many other sites follow such a rule? 

-- 
Tony Thigpen 

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Edward Gould]

> On Sep 25, 2017, at 6:20 AM, van der Grijn, Bart (B)  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
> "Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."
> 
> So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs 
> did not follow such a rule.)
> 
> I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.
> 
> Opinions?
> 
> How many other sites follow such a rule?
> 
> -- 
> Tony Thigpen

Tony, 
We started out in that direction, but found that some vendors products *HAD* to 
be in the linklst. I refused to put a sys3 dataset in the linkliest PERIOD. One 
of the reasons was that there would be a plethora  of datasets and there was no 
accounting of who put this where and why.
That got stopped after a year. I also didn’t want people that left any dirt 
they may have left either by accident or on purpose anything in the linklst (I 
won’t tell you about an incident we had that when the auditors found out they 
jumped on us up and down to get rid of them. I agreed but they wanted it done 
today and I said maybe next week as we had something major going in (it was 30+ 
years ago and I don’t remember details).

Ed


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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Allan Staller]

There is an old *convention* that uses that. 
I would question "almost all".

You may or may not choose to follow that convention.
I have not used that convention in over 10 years.




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tony Thigpen
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2017 9:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: SYS3 datasets

We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
"Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."

So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs did not 
follow such a rule.)

I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.

Opinions?

How many other sites follow such a rule?

--
Tony Thigpen

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[John McKown]

On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 9:18 PM, Tony Thigpen  wrote:

> We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
> "Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."
>
> So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs did
> not follow such a rule.)
>
> I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.
>

​I agree with you. That is *HIS* rule. Now, having said that, we do happen
to use SYS3 as the HLQ for all 3rd party software run-time libraries. I.e.
they are the ones which we customize. The "distribution" libraries start
with SYS5. And we even have SYS4 libraries which are "system" libraries
which the _programmers_ can update. So they're not really system
libraries.​ But at other shops, I have used other HLQs for OEM products.
E.g. COMPWARE. and CA.



>
> Opinions?
>
> How many other sites follow such a rule?
>
> --
> Tony Thigpen
>
> --
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>



-- 
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Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Tom Marchant]

On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 22:18:05 -0400, Tony Thigpen wrote:

>We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
>"Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."

Nonsense. If he wants to use SYS3 for third party software, that's his 
business. But to justify it with "Almost all shops" is silly.

I worked at one shop that used SYS3 and SYS3X for third party products. 
SYS3 for data sets that were in the LNKLST or LPALST and were cataloged 
in the master catalog, and SYS3X for everything else.

Yes, I know that LNKLST and LPALST data sets don't have to be cataloged 
in the master catalog, but it does make managing those data sets a little bit 
easier if the volume doesn't have to be specified on the LNKLST or LPALST.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Eric Mendelson]

This is only a convention we use sys4

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 24, 2017, at 23:09, Ronald Kristel <kristel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> We have some (IBM) products and no third party software under SYS3. There are 
> no rules here to differentiate between the two in SYS% HLQ.
> 
> -
> Ronald Kristel
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of 
> Tony Thigpen <t...@vse2pdf.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 4:18:05 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: SYS3 datasets
> 
> We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
> "Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."
> 
> So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs
> did not follow such a rule.)
> 
> I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.
> 
> Opinions?
> 
> How many other sites follow such a rule?
> 
> --
> Tony Thigpen
> 
> --
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Re: SYS3 datasets

[van der Grijn, Bart (B)]

We've never used SYS3 (or SYS2,etc.). Products have their own two HLQ. PRDB2, 
PRTWS, PRISP, etc. for R/O datasets that reside on SYSRES. PSDB2, PSTWS, etc 
for runtime libraries for the same product.  
Bart

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tony Thigpen
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2017 10:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: SYS3 datasets

We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
"Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."

So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs 
did not follow such a rule.)

I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.

Opinions?

How many other sites follow such a rule?

-- 
Tony Thigpen

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Bill Wilkie]

Ed:


Did you find out why they were updating things each time they ran? I wonder if 
their updating had to do with keeping usage statistics.


Bill



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of 
Edward Gould <edgould1...@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 6:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SYS3 datasets

> On Sep 24, 2017, at 9:18 PM, Tony Thigpen <t...@vse2pdf.com> wrote:
>
> We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
> "Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."
>
> So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs did not 
> follow such a rule.)
>
> I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.
>
> Opinions?
>
> How many other sites follow such a rule?
>
> --
> Tony Thigpen

Tony:

It depends on the oem product. If I  know the history of the product then its 
simple issue. Keep the sys3 datasets around for the life of the product. Some 
products I just do not trust and I play games with datasets. A *LONG* time ago 
I had a vendor that updated this one specific dataset everytime it ran. I did 
not want to get write authority to the users. I created a “test.product.update” 
and let the people update it. If it got clobbered which it invariable did I 
would copy over the sys3 dataset for that product “test.product.update” I won’t 
name the product as I had a loathing for them. I kept there midnight called to 
a minimum bu doing that.

Ed


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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) wrote:

>Haha, conventions and standards. A famous expression here is: everybody is 
>entitled to his own standards.

Standards? Huh? What standards...? ;-D  ;-D


Ok, seriously, we have this standards:

SysPlex HLQ (handful of them) - shared by all LPARs including a SysPlex wide 
PARMLIB, PROCLIB and Master Catalog.

LPAR specific HLQ - usually LNKLST datasets, PROCLIBs, CMDLIBs.

SYS1. - shared by all LPARs

CEE.*, ASM.*, etc. - IBM - just as it is received from big blue. Also shared by 
all LPARs.

Each product has its own HLQ (and sometimes a version middle qualifier), except 
a few product load libraries which have a shared HLQ for LPA and LNKLST.

All clients, products, data, etc., have their own HLQ.

SYS2, SYS3, SYS4, etc.? they have died out eventually. 

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM]

Haha, conventions and standards. A famous expression here is: everybody is 
entitled to his own standards. Guess how many you will get.
We used SYS1. dsnames for the first, SYS2. for the second and SYS3. for 
datasets on our 3rd system volume, which containes system specific static data 
like IOCDS, Mastercatalog, Mainview history files etc. 
We now changed the SYS3. to SYS

Kees.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Tony Thigpen
> Sent: 25 September, 2017 4:18
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: SYS3 datasets
> 
> We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
> "Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."
> 
> So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs
> did not follow such a rule.)
> 
> I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.
> 
> Opinions?
> 
> How many other sites follow such a rule?
> 
> --
> Tony Thigpen
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Edward Gould]

> On Sep 24, 2017, at 11:39 PM, Paul Gilmartin 
> <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 23:27:40 -0500, Brian Westerman wrote:
> 
>> Would that there were some sort of standard. :)
>> ...
>> If your Systems Programmer wants to use SYS3, then that's great, although 
>> it's not really going to help to have a SYS3.LINKLIB if you can't tell who's 
>> linklib it is.  But maybe he uses SYS3.vendor.library.name, in which case 
>> it's not much better than any other alternative.
>> 
> Vendors ought to suggest installation paths for their software products.
> SYS3.vendor.** seems like a good idea.  Or incorporating the vendors'
> registered element prefix.
> 
> Shops ought to follow those vendor suggestions:
> o It allows trying samples in the vendor documents with less tailoring
>  of DD statements.
> o It makes programmer skill sets more portable.  (But management
>  might consider that a bad idea.)
> 
> -- gil

Gil,

I am very bitter about some OEM products. I have been burned so many times by 
following their suggestions, that I just take their suggestion and improve upon 
it. I always make notes or have another sysprog in the install process next to 
me so they know what is going on at all times.

I have gotten to the point if I know something (bad) about the product and the 
user wants it and I hate it. I make sure it doesn’t get bought.

Ed
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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Wayne Bickerdike]

We also use SYS1.CEE instead of IBMs supplied CEE HLQ. (grrr).

I like the IBM ADCD method of DFHnnn for CICS as HLQ etc.

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Edward Gould <edgould1...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> > On Sep 24, 2017, at 9:18 PM, Tony Thigpen <t...@vse2pdf.com> wrote:
> >
> > We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
> > "Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."
> >
> > So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs
> did not follow such a rule.)
> >
> > I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.
> >
> > Opinions?
> >
> > How many other sites follow such a rule?
> >
> > --
> > Tony Thigpen
>
> Tony:
>
> It depends on the oem product. If I  know the history of the product then
> its simple issue. Keep the sys3 datasets around for the life of the
> product. Some products I just do not trust and I play games with datasets.
> A *LONG* time ago I had a vendor that updated this one specific dataset
> everytime it ran. I did not want to get write authority to the users. I
> created a “test.product.update” and let the people update it. If it got
> clobbered which it invariable did I would copy over the sys3 dataset for
> that product “test.product.update” I won’t name the product as I had a
> loathing for them. I kept there midnight called to a minimum bu doing that.
>
> Ed
>
>
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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Edward Gould]

> On Sep 24, 2017, at 9:18 PM, Tony Thigpen <t...@vse2pdf.com> wrote:
> 
> We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
> "Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."
> 
> So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs did not 
> follow such a rule.)
> 
> I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.
> 
> Opinions?
> 
> How many other sites follow such a rule?
> 
> -- 
> Tony Thigpen

Tony:

It depends on the oem product. If I  know the history of the product then its 
simple issue. Keep the sys3 datasets around for the life of the product. Some 
products I just do not trust and I play games with datasets. A *LONG* time ago 
I had a vendor that updated this one specific dataset everytime it ran. I did 
not want to get write authority to the users. I created a “test.product.update” 
and let the people update it. If it got clobbered which it invariable did I 
would copy over the sys3 dataset for that product “test.product.update” I won’t 
name the product as I had a loathing for them. I kept there midnight called to 
a minimum bu doing that.

Ed


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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Wayne Bickerdike]

We changed our philosophy recently.

SYS1 datasets on IPL volume and any needed for IPL.

We now have our CICS HLQ as SYS3 and MQ as SYS3. These both have a SYS1
alias to avoid JCL changes.

So for example, CICS alias is SYS1.CICSTS.SDFHLOAD points to
SYS3.CICSTS ( is a system symbol).



On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Lizette Koehler <stars...@mindspring.com>
wrote:

> So conventions are on a shop basis.  Whatever the shop wants to use, is
> the convention
>
> I have known some shops to use this
>
>SYS1CAfor all CA Products
>SYS1IBM   for all IBM products
>SYS1ORC   for all Oracle products and so on
>
> I have known some shops to use this
>
>SYS1 - all IBM Products
>SYS2 - Vendor A products
>SYS3 - Vendor B products
>
> And so on.
>
> When they got to SYS9 - they began to uses SYSA
>
> Some shops do
>
> SYS1 - Only MCAT productsthen use second level qualifier to identify
> vendor - IBM CA etc
>
> When some shops install Serverpac, they use CEE for LE, BPX, etc  that is
> the names used by IBM
>
> When some shops install Serverpac, they change the IBM names in server pac
> to shop standards - SYS1.CEE rather than CEE
>
> Everything is based on what the shop standards are.
>
> So bottom line, No Standard for naming convention.  Each shop makes that
> determination.  And that standard is affected by your SAF product and
> application naming convetions.
>
>
> SYS3 is not a standard in the business to indicate a 3rd party vendor.
>
>
> HTH
>
> Lizette
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> > Behalf Of Tony Thigpen
> > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2017 7:18 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: SYS3 datasets
> >
> > We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
> > "Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."
> >
> > So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs
> did not
> > follow such a rule.)
> >
> > I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.
> >
> > Opinions?
> >
> > How many other sites follow such a rule?
> >
> > --
> > Tony Thigpen
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to
> > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>



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Wayne V. Bickerdike

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Lizette Koehler]

So conventions are on a shop basis.  Whatever the shop wants to use, is the 
convention

I have known some shops to use this

   SYS1CAfor all CA Products
   SYS1IBM   for all IBM products
   SYS1ORC   for all Oracle products and so on 

I have known some shops to use this

   SYS1 - all IBM Products
   SYS2 - Vendor A products
   SYS3 - Vendor B products

And so on.

When they got to SYS9 - they began to uses SYSA

Some shops do

SYS1 - Only MCAT productsthen use second level qualifier to identify vendor 
- IBM CA etc 

When some shops install Serverpac, they use CEE for LE, BPX, etc  that is the 
names used by IBM

When some shops install Serverpac, they change the IBM names in server pac to 
shop standards - SYS1.CEE rather than CEE

Everything is based on what the shop standards are.

So bottom line, No Standard for naming convention.  Each shop makes that 
determination.  And that standard is affected by your SAF product and 
application naming convetions.


SYS3 is not a standard in the business to indicate a 3rd party vendor.


HTH

Lizette


> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Tony Thigpen
> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2017 7:18 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: SYS3 datasets
> 
> We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
> "Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."
> 
> So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs did not
> follow such a rule.)
> 
> I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.
> 
> Opinions?
> 
> How many other sites follow such a rule?
> 
> --
> Tony Thigpen
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to
> lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 23:27:40 -0500, Brian Westerman wrote:

>Would that there were some sort of standard. :)
> ...
>If your Systems Programmer wants to use SYS3, then that's great, although it's 
>not really going to help to have a SYS3.LINKLIB if you can't tell who's 
>linklib it is.  But maybe he uses SYS3.vendor.library.name, in which case it's 
>not much better than any other alternative.
>
Vendors ought to suggest installation paths for their software products.
SYS3.vendor.** seems like a good idea.  Or incorporating the vendors'
registered element prefix.

Shops ought to follow those vendor suggestions:
o It allows trying samples in the vendor documents with less tailoring
  of DD statements.
o It makes programmer skill sets more portable.  (But management
  might consider that a bad idea.)

-- gil

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Brian Westerman]

Would that there were some sort of standard. :)

I have worked with literally hundreds of sites and migrated and supported them 
for years and there is no "standard" that they all (or even any large subset of 
them) follow when it comes to naming 3rd party datasets.

Some use OEM1(,2,3,) some use the vendor name (CA, BMC, SAG, LRS, ORACLE), some 
use the second level name (SYS1.CA, SYS1.SYZYGY), some use a variation on the 
word "VENDOR" (VNDR, VND, V), the only common thread seems to be that there is 
no common thread.

If your Systems Programmer wants to use SYS3, then that's great, although it's 
not really going to help to have a SYS3.LINKLIB if you can't tell who's linklib 
it is.  But maybe he uses SYS3.vendor.library.name, in which case it's not much 
better than any other alternative.

Possibly he wants to keep everything in the master catalog, or some specific 
catalog, but he could just as well give them all different names and keep the 
aliases in a "CATALOG.VENDOR" catalog and have the same outcome.

Actually, there really isn't any reason to have them all use the same HLQ, 
unless that's what he wants.  If it makes his system easier for him to maintain 
to keep it that way, then no matter what anyone else thinks or says, he is 
going to do it that way and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Brian

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Steve Horein]

The shop I grew up in used SYS3 for third party software.
We later changed to a SYST/SYSP convention to differentiate between
smpe/source (SYST.vendor.product.version.llq), test
(SYST.vendor.product.llq), and prod (SYSP.vendor.product.llq).

On Sunday, September 24, 2017, Tony Thigpen  wrote:
> We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
> "Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."
>
> So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs did
not follow such a rule.)
>
> I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.
>
> Opinions?
>
> How many other sites follow such a rule?
>
> --
> Tony Thigpen
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: SYS3 datasets

[Ronald Kristel]

We have some (IBM) products and no third party software under SYS3. There are 
no rules here to differentiate between the two in SYS% HLQ.

-
Ronald Kristel

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of 
Tony Thigpen <t...@vse2pdf.com>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 4:18:05 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: SYS3 datasets

We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
"Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."

So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs
did not follow such a rule.)

I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.

Opinions?

How many other sites follow such a rule?

--
Tony Thigpen

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SYS3 datasets

[Tony Thigpen]

We have a staff z/OS systems programmer who claims that:
"Almost all shops use the SYS3. HLQ to indicate third party software."

So new software installs *have* to follow that "rule". (Past installs 
did not follow such a rule.)


I am thinking that this "rule" is really just *his* rule.

Opinions?

How many other sites follow such a rule?

--
Tony Thigpen

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