Re: zOS SYSPROG jobs

[Edward Gould]

> On Feb 9, 2017, at 7:18 AM, R.S.  wrote:
> 
> W dniu 2017-02-08 o 19:57, Edward Gould pisze:
>>> On Feb 8, 2017, at 9:14 AM, R.S.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> W dniu 2017-02-07 o 17:58, Bobbie Justice pisze:
 I've seen several for NYC and places close to NYC (no thank you).
 
 There are companies that don't like U.S. employees doing remote work for 
 whatever bogus reason. They will post the job as "onsite only", then six 
 months later they will outsource those jobs to India falsely claiming that 
 "they can't find workers in the U.S.".
>>> Would it change much if they'd said "we moved those jobs to India, because 
>>> it's cheaper" or even ""we moved those jobs to India, because we wanted to”?
>> I worked at such a place a while ago. They off shored the work to India. 
>> Some of the staff got “lucky” and got a job at the company that did the off 
>> shoring (IBM).
>> I was happy to be out of the place for multiple reasons and never missed any 
>> of the people there at all. They were of the types that liked to scream at 
>> others and liked to bully people around.
>> Ed
> 
> Well... How the answe is related to the question I asked?
We got the general IDEA that they were looking into outsourcing when they hired 
sysprogs that didn’t have a clue. The “sysprogs” were from India.
That was the writing on the wall and also upper management kept complaining 
about our salaries.
Ed
> Note: I'm not talking about offshoring, but about explanations of such 
> decision. The explanation can be right or wrong, honest or dishonest, but the 
> result is still the same.
> 
> -- 
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku 
> przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być 
> jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś 
> adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej 
> przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, 
> rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie 
> zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, 
> prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale 
> usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub 
> zapisane na dysku.
> 
> This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is 
> intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be 
> received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If 
> you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized 
> to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, 
> distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be 
> punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender 
> immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete 
> permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to 
> hard drive.
> 
> mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, 
> www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl
> Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru 
> Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. 
> Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości 
> wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.
> 
> 
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Re: zOS SYSPROG jobs

[R.S.]

W dniu 2017-02-08 o 19:57, Edward Gould pisze:

On Feb 8, 2017, at 9:14 AM, R.S.  wrote:

W dniu 2017-02-07 o 17:58, Bobbie Justice pisze:

I've seen several for NYC and places close to NYC (no thank you).

There are companies that don't like U.S. employees doing remote work for whatever bogus reason. 
They will post the job as "onsite only", then six months later they will outsource those 
jobs to India falsely claiming that "they can't find workers in the U.S.".

Would it change much if they'd said "we moved those jobs to India, because it's cheaper" 
or even ""we moved those jobs to India, because we wanted to”?

I worked at such a place a while ago. They off shored the work to India. Some 
of the staff got “lucky” and got a job at the company that did the off shoring 
(IBM).
I was happy to be out of the place for multiple reasons and never missed any of 
the people there at all. They were of the types that liked to scream at others 
and liked to bully people around.
Ed


Well... How the answe is related to the question I asked?
Note: I'm not talking about offshoring, but about explanations of such 
decision. The explanation can be right or wrong, honest or dishonest, 
but the result is still the same.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






---
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku 
przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie 
jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem 
niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania 
adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie 
lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być 
karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie 
zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość 
włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is 
intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be 
received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you 
are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to 
forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, 
distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be 
punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender 
immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete 
permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to 
hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, 
www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl
Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru 
Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. 
Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości 
wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


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Re: zOS SYSPROG jobs

[Edward Gould]

> On Feb 8, 2017, at 9:14 AM, R.S.  wrote:
> 
> W dniu 2017-02-07 o 17:58, Bobbie Justice pisze:
>> I've seen several for NYC and places close to NYC (no thank you).
>> 
>> There are companies that don't like U.S. employees doing remote work for 
>> whatever bogus reason. They will post the job as "onsite only", then six 
>> months later they will outsource those jobs to India falsely claiming that 
>> "they can't find workers in the U.S.".
> Would it change much if they'd said "we moved those jobs to India, because 
> it's cheaper" or even ""we moved those jobs to India, becausewe wanted to”?

I worked at such a place a while ago. They off shored the work to India. Some 
of the staff got “lucky” and got a job at the company that did the off shoring 
(IBM).
I was happy to be out of the place for multiple reasons and never missed any of 
the people there at all. They were of the types that liked to scream at others 
and liked to bully people around.
Ed

> 
> -- 
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku 
> przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być 
> jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś 
> adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej 
> przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, 
> rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie 
> zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, 
> prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale 
> usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub 
> zapisane na dysku.
> 
> This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is 
> intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be 
> received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If 
> you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized 
> to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, 
> distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be 
> punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender 
> immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete 
> permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to 
> hard drive.
> 
> mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, 
> www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl
> Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru 
> Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. 
> Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości 
> wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.
> 
> 
> --
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Re: zOS SYSPROG jobs

[Don Poitras]

In article  
you wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 10:58 AM, John Mattson 
> wrote:

> > (sorry, finger check)
> > And often they have no experience with zOS and therefore only a hazy
> > idea of what we are doing.
> >
> >
> ?That is exactly why the management here was "All Windows, All The Time!".
> They didn't understand z/OS. They didn't understand what the z/OS people
> did, or how to manage them. And it was easier for them to "eliminate? the
> problem" rather than learn something different. Management is slightly
> different now. Current management doesn't want many employees. Most work is
> done either by a contractor on site, or by an outside firm (at their
> location). The company is now _mainly_ management.
> -- 
> Our calculus classes are an integral part of your education.
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown

I don't think this is anything new. I remember a VP of a company I was
working for in 1982 tell me, "As far as I'm concerned, those guys work
for IBM. I just rent them."

-- 
Don Poitras - SAS Development  -  SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive
sas...@sas.com   (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513

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Re: zOS SYSPROG jobs

[John McKown]

On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 10:58 AM, John Mattson 
wrote:

> (sorry, finger check)
> And often they have no experience with zOS and therefore only a hazy
> idea of what we are doing.
>
>
​That is exactly why the management here was "All Windows, All The Time!".
They didn't understand z/OS. They didn't understand what the z/OS people
did, or how to manage them. And it was easier for them to "eliminate​ the
problem" rather than learn something different. Management is slightly
different now. Current management doesn't want many employees. Most work is
done either by a contractor on site, or by an outside firm (at their
location). The company is now _mainly_ management.


-- 
Our calculus classes are an integral part of your education.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: zOS SYSPROG jobs

[John Mattson]

(sorry, finger check)
And often they have no experience with zOS and therefore only a hazy
idea of what we are doing.

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Re: zOS SYSPROG jobs

[John Mattson]

Laid off May 2014 after 18 years at Epson, could not find anything for
about four months and then suddenly I had multiple offers... the nature of
life... rather like dating, feast or famine.  Was lucky to snag a job five
miles from my house, and the MF system is due to be replaced about the time
I intended to retire anyhow.  Sweet.
I suspect they will not meet their turnover date, so I have let it be
known that I will stay on if I am paid a retainer and come in as needed.
Seems reasonable to me, but who knows what management will do.
The unwillingness for most companies to allow remote work is because
they do not know how to manage it.  Often managers are younger than the
SYSPROGS

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Re: zOS SYSPROG jobs

[R.S.]

W dniu 2017-02-07 o 17:58, Bobbie Justice pisze:

I've seen several for NYC and places close to NYC (no thank you).

There are companies that don't like U.S. employees doing remote work for whatever bogus reason. 
They will post the job as "onsite only", then six months later they will outsource those 
jobs to India falsely claiming that "they can't find workers in the U.S.".
Would it change much if they'd said "we moved those jobs to India, 
because it's cheaper" or even ""we moved those jobs to India, becausewe 
wanted to"?


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






---
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku 
przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie 
jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem 
niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania 
adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie 
lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być 
karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie 
zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość 
włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is 
intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be 
received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you 
are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to 
forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, 
distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be 
punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender 
immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete 
permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to 
hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, 
www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl
Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru 
Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. 
Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości 
wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


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Re: zOS SYSPROG jobs

[Steve Thompson]

Like I said certain jobs that require clearances (notice I didn't 
give a level, but the originator did).


Today I work out of my house via a VPN connection. I have a 
clearance. Since I am not working with "that" data, or "that" 
system, I get to work at home.



Regards,
Steve Thompson


On 02/07/2017 02:35 PM, Mark Pace wrote:

I currently do systems work for a county in Texas.  It required
fingerprinting and a background check, but I do all the work remotely.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Steve Thompson  wrote:


FYI:

In my experience, certain jobs that require clearances require the work to
be done on-site. And very little, if anything at all, can be done off-site
with those restrictions.

Regards,
Steve Thompson



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Re: zOS SYSPROG jobs

[Mark Pace]

I currently do systems work for a county in Texas.  It required
fingerprinting and a background check, but I do all the work remotely.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Steve Thompson  wrote:

> FYI:
>
> In my experience, certain jobs that require clearances require the work to
> be done on-site. And very little, if anything at all, can be done off-site
> with those restrictions.
>
> Regards,
> Steve Thompson
>
>
> On 02/06/2017 11:00 PM, Steve Beaver wrote:
>
>> I am getting at least one call a day (zOS SYSPROG/ARCHITECT jobs) that
>> want
>> me to relocate to somewhere I don't care to be and they refuse to allow
>> remote at least 75% of the time then they do not want to pay all my
>> expenses.
>>
>> The latest rash is for the DC/BWI area are that need people with SECRET or
>> better clearances -- That is no problem and they will get close to what I
>> am
>> asking, but I have had enough of traveling and living in hotels for their
>> convenience not mine.
>>
> 
>
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-- 
The postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent
Mainline’s positions or opinions

Mark D Pace
Senior Systems Engineer
Mainline Information Systems

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Re: zOS SYSPROG jobs

[Steve Thompson]

FYI:

In my experience, certain jobs that require clearances require 
the work to be done on-site. And very little, if anything at all, 
can be done off-site with those restrictions.


Regards,
Steve Thompson


On 02/06/2017 11:00 PM, Steve Beaver wrote:

I am getting at least one call a day (zOS SYSPROG/ARCHITECT jobs) that want
me to relocate to somewhere I don't care to be and they refuse to allow
remote at least 75% of the time then they do not want to pay all my
expenses.

The latest rash is for the DC/BWI area are that need people with SECRET or
better clearances -- That is no problem and they will get close to what I am
asking, but I have had enough of traveling and living in hotels for their
convenience not mine.



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Re: zOS SYSPROG jobs

[william janulin]

Mainline never responds to applications. I do not know about the 'others'.
 

On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 11:58 AM, Bobbie Justice 
<0013e2d84072-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
 

 I've seen several for NYC and places close to NYC (no thank you). 

There are companies that don't like U.S. employees doing remote work for 
whatever bogus reason. They will post the job as "onsite only", then six months 
later they will outsource those jobs to India falsely claiming that "they can't 
find workers in the U.S.". 

Thankfully, there are remote opportunities available, check into companies such 
as Mainline and others. 

Bobbie Justice 
Senior z/OS Systems Engineer

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Re: zOS SYSPROG jobs

[Bobbie Justice]

I've seen several for NYC and places close to NYC (no thank you). 

There are companies that don't like U.S. employees doing remote work for 
whatever bogus reason. They will post the job as "onsite only", then six months 
later they will outsource those jobs to India falsely claiming that "they can't 
find workers in the U.S.". 

Thankfully, there are remote opportunities available, check into companies such 
as Mainline and others. 

Bobbie Justice 
Senior z/OS Systems Engineer

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Re: zOS SYSPROG jobs

[John Clifford]

Steve,

  I completely agree. I looked for 6 months for something close to or in
Tampa, FL, with no luck. I did some contracting but had to travel each
week. No more. I have looked for remote support but as you stated they want
you to move to either Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa or Washington. I consider
those states southern Canada and will not be moving anywhere near them.
With VPN's these day, remote is a snap. I did it for 3 companies over 6
months and it was as if I was at the next desk of others who did live
there. Skype allows meeting attendance so I do not get the problem with it.
I have since sort of retired  but if something ever comes up I would
attempt it again. Sorry to hear I am not the only one.

John Clifford
Z/OS systems programmer (semi-retired)

On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 11:00 PM, Steve Beaver  wrote:

> I am getting at least one call a day (zOS SYSPROG/ARCHITECT jobs) that want
> me to relocate to somewhere I don't care to be and they refuse to allow
> remote at least 75% of the time then they do not want to pay all my
> expenses.
>
> The latest rash is for the DC/BWI area are that need people with SECRET or
> better clearances -- That is no problem and they will get close to what I
> am
> asking, but I have had enough of traveling and living in hotels for their
> convenience not mine.
>
> Steve
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Clark Morris
> Sent: Monday, February 6, 2017 8:13 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Mainframe jobs
>
> [Default] On 6 Feb 2017 11:53:05 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
> li...@akphs.com (Phil Smith III) wrote:
>
> >Network World:
> >
> >By some estimates there will be more than 84,000 open positions in this
> >field by 2020.
> >
> >
> >
> >http://www.networkworld.com/article/3161857/hardware/as-baby-boomers-re
> >tire- the-shortage-of-mainframe-professionals-grows-more-acute.html
> >
> Given the slow and steady attrition of z series shops and movement to the
> cloud, I do not believe it.  Are the salaries for mainframe technical
> people
> increasing?  Are there mass recruitments for COBOL programmers or increased
> salaries and contract rates?  I am grateful to have been able to retire
> when
> I did.  I doubt the estimates given on the number of lines of COBOL source
> for programs that are still actively in production given the number of
> systems that have been replaced by packages such as SAP.  What is the
> attendance at SHARE these days?  I doubt it is as high as when I was
> participating in it.
> Guide has been gone since 1999.  I doubt many of the newer ISV packages are
> written in COBOL.  There isn't the same small system support for the 360
> architecture there used to be and I doubt many organizations upgrade to z
> from the IBM i series.  If any organization starts out on any system that
> is
> ASCII/ISO oriented, I don't see that organization going through the pain to
> get to z/OS and conversion to EBCDIC.
>
> Unisys is selling Intel based servers running either OS2200 or MCP, with at
> least the OS2200 based systems running with emulated code through firmware.
> I doubt either are being sold to new customers.
>
> Given the various Windows, Linux and Unix offerings I doubt there is much
> of
> a growth market for z series or for any other mainframe architecture.
>
> Incidentally, how secure is TPF?  I understand that it used be sort of like
> Windows 3.1 in that everything was in the same address space for
> performance.
>
> If your shop was on Windows or some Unix variant for all of its processing,
> would you recommend converting to z series?
>
> Clark Morris
> >
> >
> >Now, that would be nice, but.um.I don't think so.
> >
> >
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zOS SYSPROG jobs

[Steve Beaver]

I am getting at least one call a day (zOS SYSPROG/ARCHITECT jobs) that want
me to relocate to somewhere I don't care to be and they refuse to allow
remote at least 75% of the time then they do not want to pay all my
expenses.  

The latest rash is for the DC/BWI area are that need people with SECRET or
better clearances -- That is no problem and they will get close to what I am
asking, but I have had enough of traveling and living in hotels for their
convenience not mine.

Steve  


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Clark Morris
Sent: Monday, February 6, 2017 8:13 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe jobs

[Default] On 6 Feb 2017 11:53:05 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
li...@akphs.com (Phil Smith III) wrote:

>Network World:
>
>By some estimates there will be more than 84,000 open positions in this 
>field by 2020.
>
> 
>
>http://www.networkworld.com/article/3161857/hardware/as-baby-boomers-re
>tire- the-shortage-of-mainframe-professionals-grows-more-acute.html
>
Given the slow and steady attrition of z series shops and movement to the
cloud, I do not believe it.  Are the salaries for mainframe technical people
increasing?  Are there mass recruitments for COBOL programmers or increased
salaries and contract rates?  I am grateful to have been able to retire when
I did.  I doubt the estimates given on the number of lines of COBOL source
for programs that are still actively in production given the number of
systems that have been replaced by packages such as SAP.  What is the
attendance at SHARE these days?  I doubt it is as high as when I was
participating in it.
Guide has been gone since 1999.  I doubt many of the newer ISV packages are
written in COBOL.  There isn't the same small system support for the 360
architecture there used to be and I doubt many organizations upgrade to z
from the IBM i series.  If any organization starts out on any system that is
ASCII/ISO oriented, I don't see that organization going through the pain to
get to z/OS and conversion to EBCDIC.  

Unisys is selling Intel based servers running either OS2200 or MCP, with at
least the OS2200 based systems running with emulated code through firmware.
I doubt either are being sold to new customers.

Given the various Windows, Linux and Unix offerings I doubt there is much of
a growth market for z series or for any other mainframe architecture. 

Incidentally, how secure is TPF?  I understand that it used be sort of like
Windows 3.1 in that everything was in the same address space for
performance.

If your shop was on Windows or some Unix variant for all of its processing,
would you recommend converting to z series?

Clark Morris 
> 
>
>Now, that would be nice, but.um.I don't think so.
>
>
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