Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4
Hi Larry. It is possible that the 2.4 vm system ddr does not support it. It does work on z/VM 3.1 and later DDR. For testing in your VM userid you must use LOADPARM and not PARM. I kept my tape volid so I had to IPL twice to get past the volid. The rest of the tape should then hold the DDR program followed by ddr data. No tape mark in between the DDR program and data. Hans Although we have IPLed our VM/ESA 2.4 on our 9672 using the HMC, I also need to know how to run a DDR restore. With a DDR tape that I had built with DDR at the front, followed by a full-pack dump after it, I could not get it to work under VM. With a tape at 181 and the disk pack attached at 521, both I 181 PARM AUTO0521 and I 181 LOADPARM AUTO0521 came back to my console asking for input. Perhaps it would work if run on the bare iron. Or, perhaps, I did not understand Hans Rempel when he wrote: You will need to IPL the standalone DDR tape and add the following 8 character value AUTODDDA to the PARM field. DDDA is the address of the disk drive to receive the output from the DDR restore. This IPL provides no messages and will load the DDR program and restore tape data to disk drive DDDA. Upon successful completion a disable PSW state will be loaded PSW 000A . Sent via the WebMail system at hmrconsultants.com
Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4
Although we have IPLed our VM/ESA 2.4 on our 9672 using the HMC, I also need to know how to run a DDR restore. With a DDR tape that I had built with DDR at the front, followed by a full-pack dump after it, I could not get it to work under VM. With a tape at 181 and the disk pack attached at 521, both I 181 PARM AUTO0521 and I 181 LOADPARM AUTO0521 came back to my console asking for input. Perhaps it would work if run on the bare iron. Or, perhaps, I did not understand Hans Rempel when he wrote: You will need to IPL the standalone DDR tape and add the following 8 character value AUTODDDA to the PARM field. DDDA is the address of the disk drive to receive the output from the DDR restore. This IPL provides no messages and will load the DDR program and restore tape data to disk drive DDDA. Upon successful completion a disable PSW state will be loaded PSW 000A .
Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4
One major caution: be sure the volume you're doing this on is in the Offline_at_IPL in your production SYSTEM CONFIG; you don't want this directory accidentally coming online if something happens to the production volume that contains your normal CP directory. Sorry to disagree: CP will never use a directory found on a volume that is not CP-owned. CP doesn't even read the allocation map of volumes that are not CP-owned. So I'd change this caution: the volume of the 1-pack system should *not* be in the CP-owned list of the normal VM system. Otherwise: - the normal VM would use the spool space on that pack too - the DRCT area could indeed get used. The volume of the 1-pack system should be unique too. This way you can even mount it in the production system to maintain the 1-pack VM system In your production system, define a user SOS with minidisks describing the 1-pack system and yiu can us LINK and DDR to fill it up. Something like: USER SOS MDISK 123 3390 1 END VM1PCK MDISK CF1 3390 nn yy VM1PCK MDISK 190 3390 mm xx VM1PCK MDISK etc Kris, IBM Belgium, VM customer support
Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4
One major caution: be sure the volume you're doing this on is in the Offline_at_IPL in your production SYSTEM CONFIG; you don't want this directory accidentally coming online if something happens to the production volume that contains your normal CP directory. Sorry to disagree: CP will never use a directory found on a volume that is not CP-owned. CP doesn't even read the allocation map of volumes that are not CP-owned. Agreed. I take the further step of putting it completely offline to ensure that there is zero possibility of mistakes unless you really mean to use it -- you have to consciously do something stupid like add it to the CP-owned list AND bring it online at IPL AND IPL with the real directory volume MIA. If someone accidentally adds it somewhere it shouldn't be, then you still can't shoot yourself in the foot if CP always offlines it at IPL. You have to do three stupid or unlucky things in a row to shoot yourself if it's offline at IPL -- at which point, it's clearly your gun, your head, and your fault. The volume of the 1-pack system should be unique too. This way you can even mount it in the production system to maintain the 1-pack VM system In your production system, define a user SOS with minidisks describing the 1-pack system and yiu can us LINK and DDR to fill it up. All good suggestions. Also simplifies disk sizing (you can allocate exactly what the minimum system actually uses, rather than the somewhat more generous allocations in the default layout (which allow for some growth over time).
Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4
Sorry for my delay in responding. I have been under the weather. I finally found the documentation regarding a DDR IPL using an HMC with no 3270 console or integrated console available. I used this on VM 3.1 but I can't see why it would not work with VM 2.4. You will need to IPL the standalone DDR tape and add the following 8 character value AUTODDDA to the PARM field. DDDA is the address of the disk drive to receive the output from the DDR restore. This IPL provides no messages and will load the DDR program and restore tape data to disk drive DDDA. Upon successful completion a disable PSW state will be loaded PSW 000A . You can now IPL address DDDA and follow the normal IPL procedures using the HMC. This emergency system at address DDDA automatically brings up TCPIP and provides 3270 access. Log onto a userid and start restores or one better build this system as your DR system. You can automate it so you can just autolog userids to perform you automatic DR restore procedures. Naturally you have tested them out many times before running this DR emergency system as a second level system with small mini-disk representing your floor system. You just can't beat VM for making life at work easy. Hans Rempel -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Boyes Sent: November 23, 2006 11:49 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4 I therefore created a mini VM system with TCPIP started so that I could restore it using this method and have an VM system that I could IPL. I did that a few years back. I'd can't remember off hand how that was done. Does anyone else remember? This is a good thing to do. (in fact, I'll be giving a session at WAVV and probably the next zExpo on it -- another good reason to support WAVV...8-)) You need your CP nucleus and parm area, your IODF (if you use it instead of the much superior CP dynamic detection of devices...), your MAINT 190, most of TCPMAINT, and TCPIP itself. You also need a minimal OPERATOR, and I create one USER userid for each real tape drive you have (to allow parallel DDRs to occur on all your real drives). Configure USER to IPL 190 rather than CMS, so you don't need NSSes or spool space, and the USER ids don't even need a writable 191 -- you're not going to put anything on them anyway. FTPSERVE would be handy, but is not critical. On our 1-pack system, the PROFILE EXEC on the USER R/O 191 gets the userid, parses the and attaches the device at address as 181. The shared 191 also contains a DDR control file that restores from 181 to whatever is attached at 200 and some other assorted helpful tools (like TRACK, so you can be nosy and look at how each of the IDs is going. You don't need much (if any) page space, no dump space (unless you intend to use the 1 pack system for diagnostics too, for which you need spool and/or dump space); this system is supposed to be small and temporary -- just enough to get your real system restored as fast as possible. All those ids fit easily on one mod 3 sized volume (with a little bit of juggling and size management to remove some extra whitespace. One major caution: be sure the volume you're doing this on is in the Offline_at_IPL in your production SYSTEM CONFIG; you don't want this directory accidentally coming online if something happens to the production volume that contains your normal CP directory. I'm still working on the handouts for the talk; I'll post a draft when I get them finished. -- db
Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4
Thank you for all the responses. The consensus is to try to find used controllers. The FLEXCUB solution is more elegant and versatile, but we have no xSeries machines lying around, and are looking for a cheap solution. By the way, I understand that even if we can get our system to load via the Hardware Management Console, that would not be enough to support the stand-alone utilities such as DDR, should we need to restore disks from tape in case of a bad disk. Is that so?
Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4
Although ICKDSF works well with the HMC DDR does not. I do remember using DDR with the HMC but I could only restore one volume at a time. Therefore the input and output addresses where all entered I believe on the loadparm. I therefore created a mini VM system with TCPIP started so that I could restore it using this method and have an VM system that I could IPL. I did that a few years back. I'd can't remember off hand how that was done. Does anyone else remember? Hans Rempel -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Larry Israel Sent: November 23, 2006 4:51 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4 Thank you for all the responses. The consensus is to try to find used controllers. The FLEXCUB solution is more elegant and versatile, but we have no xSeries machines lying around, and are looking for a cheap solution. By the way, I understand that even if we can get our system to load via the Hardware Management Console, that would not be enough to support the stand-alone utilities such as DDR, should we need to restore disks from tape in case of a bad disk. Is that so?
Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4
I therefore created a mini VM system with TCPIP started so that I could restore it using this method and have an VM system that I could IPL. I did that a few years back. I'd can't remember off hand how that was done. Does anyone else remember? This is a good thing to do. (in fact, I'll be giving a session at WAVV and probably the next zExpo on it -- another good reason to support WAVV...8-)) You need your CP nucleus and parm area, your IODF (if you use it instead of the much superior CP dynamic detection of devices...), your MAINT 190, most of TCPMAINT, and TCPIP itself. You also need a minimal OPERATOR, and I create one USER userid for each real tape drive you have (to allow parallel DDRs to occur on all your real drives). Configure USER to IPL 190 rather than CMS, so you don't need NSSes or spool space, and the USER ids don't even need a writable 191 -- you're not going to put anything on them anyway. FTPSERVE would be handy, but is not critical. On our 1-pack system, the PROFILE EXEC on the USER R/O 191 gets the userid, parses the and attaches the device at address as 181. The shared 191 also contains a DDR control file that restores from 181 to whatever is attached at 200 and some other assorted helpful tools (like TRACK, so you can be nosy and look at how each of the IDs is going. You don't need much (if any) page space, no dump space (unless you intend to use the 1 pack system for diagnostics too, for which you need spool and/or dump space); this system is supposed to be small and temporary -- just enough to get your real system restored as fast as possible. All those ids fit easily on one mod 3 sized volume (with a little bit of juggling and size management to remove some extra whitespace. One major caution: be sure the volume you're doing this on is in the Offline_at_IPL in your production SYSTEM CONFIG; you don't want this directory accidentally coming online if something happens to the production volume that contains your normal CP directory. I'm still working on the handouts for the talk; I'll post a draft when I get them finished. -- db
Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:37:39 +0200, Larry Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip This is a request to you archaeologist. snip Well, Software Archaeology happens to be a trademark of my employer. Consider checking out our FLEXCUB product (Control Unit Behavior) which could easily handle your 3274 needs combined with allowing you to use a TN3270 client for your IPL consoles instead of ancient coax tubes. You ca n pull a flyer for it at the website in my sig. -- Gary Eheman Fundamental Software, Inc. http://www.funsoft.com
Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4
You can IPL VM2.4 to the SYSTEM_CONSOLE instead of a 3270 console. Your SYSTEM_CONSOLE is the HMC's System Messages window ( a sort of line-mode/tty interface, not full-screen 3270). At anytime you can force the VM IPL to the SYSTEM_CONSOLE by typing SYSC in the LOADPARM field of the HMC LOAD window when you trigger the VM IPL. That overrides your Operator_consoles list. In SYSTEM CONFIG, Operator_Consoles put SYSTEM_CONSOLE first and you'll default to IPL-ing to the HMC System Messages window; won't need a 3174 or 3274, but have that limited interface initially. You could also leave your Operator_consoles statement as-is with SYSTEM_CONSOLE last; then if VM doesn't find any working 3270's in the console list it'll use the HMC window. This e-mail, including any attachments, may be confidential, privileged or otherwise legally protected. It is intended only for the addressee. If you received this e-mail in error or from someone who was not authorized to send it to you, do not disseminate, copy or otherwise use this e-mail or its attachments. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete the e-mail from your system. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Larry Israel Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 5:38 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4 This is a request to you archaeologist. We have a 9672-A14, running VM/ESA 2.4, that was originally supposed to die in 2001. It is still alive, but not feeling too well. The big problem is our 3274 (you read right) controllers. The 3174s are gone, but we need something when/if we have to IPL. We have two 3274s, neither in good shape. IBM has announced that they will no longer give us a service contract on them, but the machine will probably have to work after that date. We are looking for an alternate way to IPL the system. We have been unable to do so using the hardware management console. Either we don't know how, or we are too far out of date for it to work. We were told by an IBM expert, that it does can not work on our system. It looks like we have to buy an old controller of some kind -- 2074, 3174, 3274, or engage in prayer that the electricity to the 3274s does not go down. Even without having to power them up, we have had one instance of a controller stopping working. I would appreciate any ideas of how to proceed. I also have a related question. Our SYSTEM CONFIG file contains: Operator_Consoles 0320 321 9A0 9B0 SYSTEM_CONSole Emergency_Message_Consoles 0320 321 9A0 9B0 SYSTEM_CONSole Because of the problems with controllers the operator logged on to 321, not at IPL time. When we SHUTDOWN the system we had working terminals on 321 and 9A0, but got no message. When we tried to IPL, the system tried to use 320, and did not switch to 321 nor to 9A0. Was that because the controller for 320 and 321 was active?No real problem, because I changed to console address in the load parameter screen in the HMC, and was able to proceed, but I am interested in why it didn't work. As I said, a problem for archaeologists. (My real archaeologist daughter-in-law was unable to help.)
Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4
Probably the cheapest solution is to buy a used 3174-11L and decommission the 3274s. Used price is less than $1K USD (heck, I've got one I'll give to you if you want to ship it there), and it's not worth the effort to try to figure out another solution for that little $$$. If the 3174s are properly configured, it should be a direct swap for the 3274s (I don't remember if you need to change the IOCP for that; don't think so).
Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4
Hello Larry, The easiest, cheapest, most reliable is to buy a 3174. Here is a price from a local dealer. Heck Buy two and keep one for backup. Scrape them when you are done. CONTROLLERS-DOLLARS - 3174-01L-$650 3174-11L-$650 Ed Martin Aultman Health Foundation 330-588-4723 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ext. 40441 -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Larry Israel Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 5:38 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4 This is a request to you archaeologist. We have a 9672-A14, running VM/ESA 2.4, that was originally supposed to die in 2001. It is still alive, but not feeling too well. The big problem is our 3274 (you read right) controllers. The 3174s are gone, but we need something when/if we have to IPL. We have two 3274s, neither in good shape. IBM has announced that they will no longer give us a service contract on them, but the machine will probably have to work after that date. We are looking for an alternate way to IPL the system. We have been unable to do so using the hardware management console. Either we don't know how, or we are too far out of date for it to work. We were told by an IBM expert, that it does can not work on our system. It looks like we have to buy an old controller of some kind -- 2074, 3174, 3274, or engage in prayer that the electricity to the 3274s does not go down. Even without having to power them up, we have had one instance of a controller stopping working. I would appreciate any ideas of how to proceed. I also have a related question. Our SYSTEM CONFIG file contains: Operator_Consoles 0320 321 9A0 9B0 SYSTEM_CONSole Emergency_Message_Consoles 0320 321 9A0 9B0 SYSTEM_CONSole Because of the problems with controllers the operator logged on to 321, not at IPL time. When we SHUTDOWN the system we had working terminals on 321 and 9A0, but got no message. When we tried to IPL, the system tried to use 320, and did not switch to 321 nor to 9A0. Was that because the controller for 320 and 321 was active?No real problem, because I changed to console address in the load parameter screen in the HMC, and was able to proceed, but I am interested in why it didn't work. As I said, a problem for archaeologists. (My real archaeologist daughter-in-law was unable to help.)
Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4
The problem one is having without a 3270 console is that SAPLdoesn't support SYSC, it needs a 3270. Without a 3270 it is impossible to enter IPL overrides (such as IPLing with the previous version of SYSTEM CONFIG). A partial solution would be to have several IPL devices, each with their own IPL defaults, to use in case the normal resident has a bad CP nucleus or SYSTEM CONFIG. Kris, IBM Belgium, VM customer support Romanowski, John (OFT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 2006-10-26 14:33 Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Re: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4 You can IPL VM2.4 to the SYSTEM_CONSOLE instead of a 3270 console. Your SYSTEM_CONSOLE is the HMC's System Messages window ( a sort of line-mode/tty interface, not full-screen 3270). At anytime you can force the VM IPL to the SYSTEM_CONSOLE by typing SYSC in the LOADPARM field of the HMC LOAD window when you trigger the VM IPL. That overrides your Operator_consoles list. In SYSTEM CONFIG, Operator_Consoles put SYSTEM_CONSOLE first and you'll default to IPL-ing to the HMC System Messages window; won't need a 3174 or 3274, but have that limited interface initially. You could also leave your Operator_consoles statement as-is with SYSTEM_CONSOLE last; then if VM doesn't find any working 3270's in the console list it'll use the HMC window. This e-mail, including any attachments, may be confidential, privileged or otherwise legally protected. It is intended only for the addressee. If you received this e-mail in error or from someone who was not authorized to send it to you, do not disseminate, copy or otherwise use this e-mail or its attachments. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete the e-mail from your system. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Larry Israel Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 5:38 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: IPL Help for old 9672 with VM/ESA 2.4 This is a request to you archaeologist. We have a 9672-A14, running VM/ESA 2.4, that was originally supposed to die in 2001. It is still alive, but not feeling too well. The big problem is our 3274 (you read right) controllers. The 3174s are gone, but we need something when/if we have to IPL. We have two 3274s, neither in good shape. IBM has announced that they will no longer give us a service contract on them, but the machine will probably have to work after that date. We are looking for an alternate way to IPL the system. We have been unable to do so using the hardware management console. Either we don't know how, or we are too far out of date for it to work. We were told by an IBM expert, that it does can not work on our system. It looks like we have to buy an old controller of some kind -- 2074, 3174, 3274, or engage in prayer that the electricity to the 3274s does not go down. Even without having to power them up, we have had one instance of a controller stopping working. I would appreciate any ideas of how to proceed. I also have a related question. Our SYSTEM CONFIG file contains: Operator_Consoles 0320 321 9A0 9B0 SYSTEM_CONSole Emergency_Message_Consoles 0320 321 9A0 9B0 SYSTEM_CONSole Because of the problems with controllers the operator logged on to 321, not at IPL time. When we SHUTDOWN the system we had working terminals on 321 and 9A0, but got no message. When we tried to IPL, the system tried to use 320, and did not switch to 321 nor to 9A0. Was that because the controller for 320 and 321 was active?No real problem, because I changed to console address in the load parameter screen in the HMC, and was able to proceed, but I am interested in why it didn't work. As I said, a problem for archaeologists. (My real archaeologist daughter-in-law was unable to help.)
