Re: SFS and CP Question
Changed at release 5.3. It used to be, and still may be to some, an abbreviation for the FORWARD command. This is probably what broke the RSCS CRI when directing commands to other systems. The description of the FOR command exactly duplicates the symptoms now enjoyed (take that as a pejorative) by the responses sent to other systems. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Tom Huegel Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 7:04 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: SFS and CP Question __FOR__userid__ __ __ __CMD__text__ | | |_PATH__ _pathid_ _| |_TOKEN__token_value_| | | |_*__| | | | | | | | | | |__| Authorization Privilege Class: C, G Purpose Use FOR to execute a CP command on another virtual machine and receive the command's responses and return code either to your terminal or over an IUCV connection to the Asynchronous CP Command Response system servicehttp://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/DOCNUM/SC24-6084/HDRASYNCMD?ScrollTOP=HDRASYNCMD#HDRASYNCMD (*ASYNCMD)http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/DOCNUM/SC24-6084/HDRASYNCMD?ScrollTOP=HDRASYNCMD#HDRASYNCMD. On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Alan Altmark alan_altm...@us.ibm.commailto:alan_altm...@us.ibm.com wrote: On Wednesday, 11/11/2009 at 05:54 EST, Schuh, Richard rsc...@visa.commailto:rsc...@visa.com wrote: Might not work - FOR is a legitimate abbreviation of the CP FOrward command. Not any more it isn't. When FOR was introduced, the minimum abbreviation for FORWARD had to change to 'FORW'. (This is an example of why Good Programmers don't use command abbreviations in their programs.) If an ESM is present, you need not be the secuser or have class C in order to use FOR. CP issues a RACROUTE call to the ESM, asking if you have READ authority to the LOGONBY.targetuser profile in the SURROGAT class. If so, you can issue the FOR command. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Re: SFS and CP Question
So it depends on the release of VM. Anyone running a release older than 5.3 will have a problem. So much for backward compatibility. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:48 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: SFS and CP Question On Wednesday, 11/11/2009 at 05:54 EST, Schuh, Richard rsc...@visa.com wrote: Might not work - FOR is a legitimate abbreviation of the CP FOrward command. Not any more it isn't. When FOR was introduced, the minimum abbreviation for FORWARD had to change to 'FORW'. (This is an example of why Good Programmers don't use command abbreviations in their programs.) If an ESM is present, you need not be the secuser or have class C in order to use FOR. CP issues a RACROUTE call to the ESM, asking if you have READ authority to the LOGONBY.targetuser profile in the SURROGAT class. If so, you can issue the FOR command. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Re: SFS and CP Question
On Thursday, 11/12/2009 at 12:07 EST, Schuh, Richard rsc...@visa.com wrote: So it depends on the release of VM. Anyone running a release older than 5.3 will have a problem. So much for backward compatibility. As to the RSCS CRI, do you mean that your programs using the CRI didn't spell out the command name and got caught by the abbreviation change? I'm fairly certain that RSCS doesn't issue the CP FORWARD command on his own. In any case, the number of people with channel-attached printers on z/VM is getting pretty darned low. We chose to sacrifice FO on the alter of progress rather than create an unintuitive command (8 letters isn't a lot). Sure, there's a bit of grumbling from one or two people, but the world continues to turn on its axis. When we made TCP/IP low port numbers protected by default, that was a much larger incompatibility, and people got past it. But don't worry, the world-renown IBM Mainframe Hoops of Compatibility are still installed here. But they are flaming *hoops*, not solid lead Discs of Doom. :-) Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Re: SFS and CP Question
alter of progress Alter of progress. I get it. Very clever, what a pun! I wonder how many people will 'progress' right past it? You did actually intend that pun, right? Right? Yes, of course you did. You're too clever to not have meant it. That's your story and you're sticking with it. Mike Walter Hewitt Associates The opinions expressed herein are mine alone, not my employer's. Alan Altmark alan_altm...@us.ibm.com Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 11/12/2009 12:07 PM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Re: SFS and CP Question On Thursday, 11/12/2009 at 12:07 EST, Schuh, Richard rsc...@visa.com wrote: So it depends on the release of VM. Anyone running a release older than 5.3 will have a problem. So much for backward compatibility. As to the RSCS CRI, do you mean that your programs using the CRI didn't spell out the command name and got caught by the abbreviation change? I'm fairly certain that RSCS doesn't issue the CP FORWARD command on his own. In any case, the number of people with channel-attached printers on z/VM is getting pretty darned low. We chose to sacrifice FO on the alter of progress rather than create an unintuitive command (8 letters isn't a lot). Sure, there's a bit of grumbling from one or two people, but the world continues to turn on its axis. When we made TCP/IP low port numbers protected by default, that was a much larger incompatibility, and people got past it. But don't worry, the world-renown IBM Mainframe Hoops of Compatibility are still installed here. But they are flaming *hoops*, not solid lead Discs of Doom. :-) Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. E-mails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by e-mail.
Re: SFS and CP Question
No, I mean that when sending a command to a different node, the RSCS CRI acts exactly like the FOR command. Instead of capturing the response and returning it with the CRI headings, it gives the user an immediate rc=0 and allows the responses to be returned as asynchronous messages from the other node. In other words, using CRI to send a command to another node is a useless exercise. Try using CRI to send a very simple command to another node, something like CP QUERY TIME if the other node is VM or $DA if z/OS. Then try doing the equivalent command on the local node and you will see the difference. On the local node, the responses are returned dressed in their full CRI regalia, instead of being asynchronous messages. And yes, there is an open PMR for this. Only Chuckie would alter the altar, or is it altar the alter, like that purposely:-) Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:08 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: SFS and CP Question On Thursday, 11/12/2009 at 12:07 EST, Schuh, Richard rsc...@visa.com wrote: So it depends on the release of VM. Anyone running a release older than 5.3 will have a problem. So much for backward compatibility. As to the RSCS CRI, do you mean that your programs using the CRI didn't spell out the command name and got caught by the abbreviation change? I'm fairly certain that RSCS doesn't issue the CP FORWARD command on his own. In any case, the number of people with channel-attached printers on z/VM is getting pretty darned low. We chose to sacrifice FO on the alter of progress rather than create an unintuitive command (8 letters isn't a lot). Sure, there's a bit of grumbling from one or two people, but the world continues to turn on its axis. When we made TCP/IP low port numbers protected by default, that was a much larger incompatibility, and people got past it. But don't worry, the world-renown IBM Mainframe Hoops of Compatibility are still installed here. But they are flaming *hoops*, not solid lead Discs of Doom. :-) Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Re: SFS and CP Question
No, I mean that when sending a command to a different node, the RSCS CRI acts exactly like the FOR command. Instead of capturing the response and returning it with the CRI headings, it gives the user an immediate rc=0 and allows the responses to be returned as asynchronous messages from the other node. In other words, using CRI to send a command to another node is a useless exercise. Try using CRI to send a very simple command to another node, something like CP QUERY TIME if the other node is VM or $DA if z/OS. Then try doing the equivalent command on the local node and you will see the difference. On the local node, the responses are returned dressed in their full CRI regalia, instead of being asynchronous messages.=20 RSCS does not use underlying CP facilities when sending a command from one node to another. Instead, NJE protocols are used for the command and response. The command complete from RSCS is for the MSG/CMD command, not whatever is bundled within MSG or CMD. The only time RSCS would issue CP FOR (or CP FORWARD) is if a user actually issued this via the RSCS CP command. The RSCS CRI behavior should not have changed with z/VM 5.3, it should be behaving the same way on older levels of z/VM. Best Regards, Les Geer IBM z/VM and Linux Development
Re: SFS and CP Question
Unfortunately, it has changed. The CRI captures the responses, even if the commands are CP commands, on the local node, and used to do so for commands to other nodes. Now its behavior, when sending a command to a different node, mimics that of the FOR command, regardless of how the command is actually executed. There is an immediate rc=0 with no message and the real response is returned as asynchronous messages from the target node. The CRI is supposed to act differently than a simple SMSG RSCS CMD It is, by its very name, different. CRI stands for Command Response Interface. It WAS a programming interface. It was a way out of the screen scraping morass. It identified the command that caused the response and indicated when the response was complete. Now, it does not, except for commands to the local node. If it is behaving correctly now, perhaps its name ought to be changed to LCRI (L for Local). If all I wanted was to have the messages displayed on the console, I wouldn't use a programming interface to issue the commands in the first place. Screen scraping, while currently effective is ugly as well as being unreliable. First, it is necessary to capture CPCONIO message traffic. Then it is required that the real command be followed with something recognizable so that it is known when the response is complete. Non-related message traffic must be filtered out, too. It has been my experience that all of the systems in our NJE network regard GARBAGE as an invalid command and include that word in a one-line response. I can use that as my end-of-command sentinel. If, for some reason, one or more of the systems implements a GARBAGE command or includes that word, all in caps., in a legitimate response, I am in trouble. I may even be in trouble if a userid GARBAGE is ever created on one of the systems. You say that it should not have changed. I could not agree with you more. It should not have changed. It did work for both the local node and remote nodes in VM/XA and VM/ESA. It changed at some time - probably when we were given a new version. Unfortunately, the use of the code had apparently ebbed and I did not catch it at the time of the change; nobody reported a problem. Now, we have a real need to capture the responses from JES queries, and we must scrape the screen to get them. One of the responses is variable in length and usually in the 50-100 lines range, so an end-of-reply indicator really is imperative. That is why PMR 15882,49R,000 was opened on 10/16. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Les Geer (607-429-3580) Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:29 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: SFS and CP Question No, I mean that when sending a command to a different node, the RSCS CRI acts exactly like the FOR command. Instead of capturing the response and returning it with the CRI headings, it gives the user an immediate rc=0 and allows the responses to be returned as asynchronous messages from the other node. In other words, using CRI to send a command to another node is a useless exercise. Try using CRI to send a very simple command to another node, something like CP QUERY TIME if the other node is VM or $DA if z/OS. Then try doing the equivalent command on the local node and you will see the difference. On the local node, the responses are returned dressed in their full CRI regalia, instead of being asynchronous messages.=20 RSCS does not use underlying CP facilities when sending a command from one node to another. Instead, NJE protocols are used for the command and response. The command complete from RSCS is for the MSG/CMD command, not whatever is bundled within MSG or CMD. The only time RSCS would issue CP FOR (or CP FORWARD) is if a user actually issued this via the RSCS CP command. The RSCS CRI behavior should not have changed with z/VM 5.3, it should be behaving the same way on older levels of z/VM. Best Regards, Les Geer IBM z/VM and Linux Development
Re: SFS and CP Question
CP SEND CP VMSERVR DETACH xxx. You need to be the secondary user or have privilege class C. Dennis Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. -- C.S. Lewis -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Wandschneider, Scott Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 14:19 To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: [IBMVM] SFS and CP Question Anybody know of a way to send a DETACH command to a disconnected guest such as VMSERVR or OSASF. They have an erroneous LINK, no access, that I would like to detach without logging onto to them or cycling them. Thank you, Scott R Wandschneider Senior Systems Programmer|| Infocrossing, a Wipro Company || 11707 Miracle Hills Drive, Omaha, NE, 68154-4457|| : 402.963.8905 || :847.849.7223 || : scott.wandschnei...@infocrossing.com **Think Green - Please print responsibly** Cnfdetiliy ot: hi emal,inluin ay ttchen t i, aycotan atril ha i cnfdetil,prpretry pivleedan/o roecedHelt Ifomaio,wihi te eain o te eglaios ndr heHelt Isuane orabliy Acontbiit At s mede. Ifitisno cea tatyo ae heinenedreipen, ouar hrey otfid ha yu av rceve tistrnsitalineror ad nyreie, isemnaio, isriutonorcoyig f hi emal,inluin ay ttchen t i, s trcty roibte. f ouhae ecivd hi emal n rrr,plas imeiael rtun t o hesede ad elteitfrm ou sstm.Thnkyo.
Re: SFS and CP Question
or CP FOR VMSERVER CMD DET On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 4:25 PM, O'Brien, Dennis L dennis.l.o'br...@bankofamerica.com dennis.l.o%27br...@bankofamerica.comwrote: CP SEND CP VMSERVR DETACH xxx. You need to be the secondary user or have privilege class C. Dennis Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. -- C.S. Lewis -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Wandschneider, Scott Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 14:19 To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: [IBMVM] SFS and CP Question Anybody know of a way to send a DETACH command to a disconnected guest such as VMSERVR or OSASF. They have an erroneous LINK, no access, that I would like to detach without logging onto to them or cycling them. Thank you, Scott R Wandschneider Senior Systems Programmer|| Infocrossing, a Wipro Company || 11707 Miracle Hills Drive, Omaha, NE, 68154-4457|| : 402.963.8905 || :847.849.7223 || : scott.wandschnei...@infocrossing.com **Think Green - Please print responsibly** Cnfdetiliy ot: hi emal,inluin ay ttchen t i, aycotan atril ha i cnfdetil,prpretry pivleedan/o roecedHelt Ifomaio,wihi te eain o te eglaios ndr heHelt Isuane orabliy Acontbiit At s mede. Ifitisno cea tatyo ae heinenedreipen, ouar hrey otfid ha yu av rceve tistrnsitalineror ad nyreie, isemnaio, isriutonorcoyig f hi emal,inluin ay ttchen t i, s trcty roibte. f ouhae ecivd hi emal n rrr,plas imeiael rtun t o hesede ad elteitfrm ou sstm.Thnkyo.
Re: SFS and CP Question
Perfect Thank you! send cp vmservr detach 51d VMSERVR : DASD 051D DETACHED Thank you, Scott -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of O'Brien, Dennis L Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 4:25 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: SFS and CP Question CP SEND CP VMSERVR DETACH xxx. You need to be the secondary user or have privilege class C. Dennis Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. -- C.S. Lewis -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Wandschneider, Scott Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 14:19 To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: [IBMVM] SFS and CP Question Anybody know of a way to send a DETACH command to a disconnected guest such as VMSERVR or OSASF. They have an erroneous LINK, no access, that I would like to detach without logging onto to them or cycling them. Thank you, Scott R Wandschneider Senior Systems Programmer|| Infocrossing, a Wipro Company || 11707 Miracle Hills Drive, Omaha, NE, 68154-4457|| : 402.963.8905 || :847.849.7223 || : scott.wandschnei...@infocrossing.com **Think Green - Please print responsibly** Cnfdetiliy ot: hi emal,inluin ay ttchen t i, aycotan atril ha i cnfdetil,prpretry pivleedan/o roecedHelt Ifomaio,wihi te eain o te eglaios ndr heHelt Isuane orabliy Acontbiit At s mede. Ifitisno cea tatyo ae heinenedreipen, ouar hrey otfid ha yu av rceve tistrnsitalineror ad nyreie, isemnaio, isriutonorcoyig f hi emal,inluin ay ttchen t i, s trcty roibte. f ouhae ecivd hi emal n rrr,plas imeiael rtun t o hesede ad elteitfrm ou sstm.Thnkyo.
Re: SFS and CP Question
Might not work - FOR is a legitimate abbreviation of the CP FOrward command. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Tom Huegel Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 2:30 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: SFS and CP Question or CP FOR VMSERVER CMD DET On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 4:25 PM, O'Brien, Dennis L dennis.l.o'br...@bankofamerica.commailto:dennis.l.o%27br...@bankofamerica.com wrote: CP SEND CP VMSERVR DETACH xxx. You need to be the secondary user or have privilege class C. Dennis Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. -- C.S. Lewis -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDUmailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On Behalf Of Wandschneider, Scott Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 14:19 To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDUmailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: [IBMVM] SFS and CP Question Anybody know of a way to send a DETACH command to a disconnected guest such as VMSERVR or OSASF. They have an erroneous LINK, no access, that I would like to detach without logging onto to them or cycling them. Thank you, Scott R Wandschneider Senior Systems Programmer|| Infocrossing, a Wipro Company || 11707 Miracle Hills Drive, Omaha, NE, 68154-4457|| : 402.963.8905 || :847.849.7223 || : scott.wandschnei...@infocrossing.commailto:scott.wandschnei...@infocrossing.com **Think Green - Please print responsibly** Cnfdetiliy ot: hi emal,inluin ay ttchen t i, aycotan atril ha i cnfdetil,prpretry pivleedan/o roecedHelt Ifomaio,wihi te eain o te eglaios ndr heHelt Isuane orabliy Acontbiit At s mede. Ifitisno cea tatyo ae heinenedreipen, ouar hrey otfid ha yu av rceve tistrnsitalineror ad nyreie, isemnaio, isriutonorcoyig f hi emal,inluin ay ttchen t i, s trcty roibte. f ouhae ecivd hi emal n rrr,plas imeiael rtun t o hesede ad elteitfrm ou sstm.Thnkyo.
Re: SFS and CP Question
Hi, Scott. Do the following: 1) set yourself up as a secondary user of VMSERVR and/or OSASF: SET SECUSER VMSERVR MAINT (if your logged in as MAINT) 2) tell the guest to do the detach: SEND CP VMSERVR DETACH xxx DJ On 11/11/2009 04:19 PM, Wandschneider, Scott wrote: Anybody know of a way to send a DETACH command to a disconnected guest such as VMSERVR or OSASF. They have an erroneous LINK, no access, that I would like to detach without logging onto to them or cycling them. Thank you, Scott R Wandschneider Senior Systems Programmer|| Infocrossing, a Wipro Company || 11707 Miracle Hills Drive, Omaha, NE, 68154-4457|| : 402.963.8905 || :847.849.7223 || : scott.wandschnei...@infocrossing.com **Think Green - Please print responsibly** Confidentiality Note: This e-mail, including any attachment to it, may contain material that is confidential, proprietary, privileged and/or Protected Health Information, within the meaning of the regulations under the Health Insurance Portability Accountability Act as amended. If it is not clear that you are the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error, and any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, including any attachment to it, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately return it to the sender and delete it from your system. Thank you. -- Dave Jones V/Soft www.vsoft-software.com Houston, TX 281.578.7544
Re: SFS and CP Question
On Wednesday, 11/11/2009 at 05:54 EST, Schuh, Richard rsc...@visa.com wrote: Might not work - FOR is a legitimate abbreviation of the CP FOrward command. Not any more it isn't. When FOR was introduced, the minimum abbreviation for FORWARD had to change to 'FORW'. (This is an example of why Good Programmers don't use command abbreviations in their programs.) If an ESM is present, you need not be the secuser or have class C in order to use FOR. CP issues a RACROUTE call to the ESM, asking if you have READ authority to the LOGONBY.targetuser profile in the SURROGAT class. If so, you can issue the FOR command. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Re: SFS and CP Question
__FOR__userid__ __ __ __CMD__text__ | | |_PATH__ _pathid_ _| |_TOKEN__token_value_| | | |_*__| | | | | | | | | | |__| *Authorization* Privilege Class: C, G *Purpose* Use FOR to execute a CP command on another virtual machine and receive the command's responses and return code either to your terminal or over an IUCV connection to the Asynchronous CP Command Response system servicehttp://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/DOCNUM/SC24-6084/HDRASYNCMD?ScrollTOP=HDRASYNCMD#HDRASYNCMD (*ASYNCMD)http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/DOCNUM/SC24-6084/HDRASYNCMD?ScrollTOP=HDRASYNCMD#HDRASYNCMD. On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Alan Altmark alan_altm...@us.ibm.comwrote: On Wednesday, 11/11/2009 at 05:54 EST, Schuh, Richard rsc...@visa.com wrote: Might not work - FOR is a legitimate abbreviation of the CP FOrward command. Not any more it isn't. When FOR was introduced, the minimum abbreviation for FORWARD had to change to 'FORW'. (This is an example of why Good Programmers don't use command abbreviations in their programs.) If an ESM is present, you need not be the secuser or have class C in order to use FOR. CP issues a RACROUTE call to the ESM, asking if you have READ authority to the LOGONBY.targetuser profile in the SURROGAT class. If so, you can issue the FOR command. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
