RE: [IceHorses] Semantics Gait - BACK PROBLEMS!
If you recognize normal, it's easier to recognize injury. Nancy, that was a great post. And on a related note: saddle fit! I'm a back problem fanatic, and if you pay attention to gait changes - even the subtle ones - you can pick up a sore back or a saddle fit issue before the problem is big. That was the main symptom that led me to offer to let Cary try the Sensation on Skjoni last year. His Free and Easy saddle looked fine to me - and I've played around with saddle fit for a while that I see more than a lot of amateurs like myself. But, there was something subtle about the way his gaits were morphing. He was moving more towards step pace from tolt - probably not purely step-pacing, but there was a shift. BUT, he was still wonderfully smooth to ride! I offered for Cary to try the Sensation and his reaction was swift and dramatic - and an obvious improvement. I sure would have hated to wait until his gait got rough to work on that problem! The subtle gait change was a big heads up that something was happening. Karen Thomas, NC
RE: [IceHorses] slobber straps
Metal snaps do add weight but they also have a lot of movement to them so aren't quite the same. I've heard that too, but not all have equal movement. It depends on how bit the rein loop is on the bit, compared to the mouth of the snaps. Also a factor is how floppy the scissor snap is attached to the reins. I've heard people say that they cause vibration on the bit, but you know that Cary and I are both Engineers...we had to check that out! We've tested that a lot and with the smaller scissor snaps that are most often attached to rope reins, you really can't feel anything, not unless you REALLY swing and bounce the reins, and then...well the problem isn't the metals snaps at that point! There's another kind of snap that I occasionally see on reins that may have a little effect. We always ride with scissor snaps on our reins - there are simply times we want to be able to switch the reins to a halter, and buckles, slobber straps, and Conway buckles take too much fumbling around, especially for my arthritic hands. Every thing has pros and cons. Yep, it goes with owning horses. You can find a downside to everything! The biggest disadvantage I see with the metal snaps is that most have a rather low break strength, maybe as low as 80-100 pounds. But, I'm pretty paranoid about my horses getting hung up somewhere, and I like to have breakaways in key pieces of tack, so I actually like that. But, just a warning to the list. I don't take a skittish or very young horse for a walk somewhere he's not comfortable with only one of the little scissor snaps holding him to the lead line or reins - not unless you are darned sure you already have his trust and he will come to you if he's spooked or scared and the snap breaks. Any reins with scissor snaps probably shouldn't substitute for a real lead line, except for short periods on a trained and calm horse. Karen Thomas, NC
RE: [IceHorses] Samantics Gait
Oh yeah--when riding I can FEEL the difference. Show me photos, though, and I may not be able to figure it out as quick. Ok, that's great then. To me, it's MUCH more important - and usually more accurate - to be able to feel the difference. It's good to still have someone occasionally tape you or take a series of still pictures of what you are feeling to make sure you aren't way off base. You don't have to learn all the subtle nuances of gait at first, maybe not ever. Just remember my accident: I was so banged up and stiff for a couple of years that I simply wasn't loose enough to feel the gaits - sometimes, believe it or not, I couldn't feel the difference between pace and trot. I'd been able to feel the difference in years past, but during that period I needed to depend on pics and video while I trained Sina. Thank goodness the stiffness eventually got better, and the nerve damage virtually went away. But Sina was my main inspiration to exercise and get better during that rehab period, so I would have hated to be training her to pace, just enjoying the ride. She is smooth in everything she does, even her step pace, but she was mostly step-pacing because 1) I was stiff, and 2) her saddles were too tight! Thank goodness I could get feedback from my two friends who can see gaits well, and they and Cary would also take pictures sometimes. Karen Thomas, NC
[IceHorses] The importance of knowing gaits - Loftur's example
This is long, but PLEASE read it. There really are times when a horse can be quite comfortable to ride, even extremely smooth, but the gaits are giving us a big clue that something is wrong. We need to learn at least some of the gait basics for the soundness and comfort of our horses! Many of you may remember when I bought Loftur in 2004. He was advertised as a natural tolter, who for some unknown reason, had a bolting problem. When he came here, we gave him some time off, refreshed his groundwork, then tried getting on him. He had a few odd reactions along the way, but nothing bad, and was willing to stand quietly for mounting. We walked a little while, then tentatively asked for a little speed - omg, what a SMOOTH horse. I knew it had to be tolt (thinking saddle rack) but the pictures and videos showed it closer to step pace. We continued to tentatively ride him for very short sessions, but he stayed tense - BUT one of the smoothest horses to ride imaginable. When he didn't relax pretty quickly, I called a chiropractor. I had never seen such a dramatic reaction from a horse - she touched his back, this sweet, quiet horse, and he surged forward about 20 feet in what seemed like a single motion. I couldn't believe he was in such pain. I then took him to a vet, the one who had followed up with Gracie's acupuncture after her evaluation at Virginia Tech. He checked Loftur and said he'd rarely, if ever, seen a horse who was so tight and so locked up in every part of his body. He said for it to have gotten to that point, it must have been going on for years, whatever it - the root cause - was. He suggested that the acupressurist he uses see him for a few sessions to start loosening him up, because he was so bad, he simply couldn't tell where to start with diagnostic tests. And remember, Loftur was letting people ride him, and was WONDERFULLY comfortable in his gaits. Well, I should rephrase that. Comfortable for the rider. I doubt he was very comfortable. No wonder he was bolting! After 3-4 sessions with the acupressurist/massage guy, he said he thought Loftur was getting loose enough to pick up a couple of key pain areas. The vet rechecked him at that point, and found the main points were very sore withers, and an old castration scar. He x-rayed the withers, and thankfully there were no kissing spines. Since it was only soft tissue, he injected his withers with steroids. The next day, I saw Loftur trot in the pasture for the very first time! He doesn't trot all the time in the pasture, but it's now one of the gaits in his repertoire that he can occasionally pull out and use when he needs to. I NEVER saw him trot in the pasture before the treatment - it was always that step-pacey-saddle-rack gait at liberty. Loftur is still doing well, and hasn't had to have any more steroids. But, his back will go out from time to time, and I have to keep watch on him and keep up his back exercises, and occasionally call in the acupressurist. He will now do more gaits under saddle - the saddle rack seems easy for him, but he can also run walk and foxtrot - not sure he can do a true trot, but that's fine. He's still a wonderfully smooth horse to ride - one of our smoothest. The gait changes were subtle, and I'm sure that most casual observers would have called what he did before AND what he does now tolt. But there has a wealth of information available in being able to recognize those subtle gait differences. Please don't be satisfied in just being a passenger on a smooth horse...it may feel comfortable to you, but it may not be so comfortable to him. Karen Thomas, NC
RE: [IceHorses] slobber straps
I think slobber straps, mecates, and heavy ropes are vastly overrated, and, with many people who are into Natural Horsemanship, are used b/c they look cool, and say to everyone else Hey, *I'm* into NH! They just don't work well w/ gaited horses. People need to use what *works* for their horse. Not all rope reins are so heavy - the cotton ones are actually pretty light weight compared to the nylon NH-style reins, and I think Janice swears by the mohair ones. But, please don't be so quick to say that people use them for appearances only! A lot of older riders I know have some arthritis in their hands. I have a lot to be only 51. I use the cotton rope reins because I can't cope with thin, flat leather or biothane reins any more - it's just easier on me, and I figure if they are easier on me, they are ultimately easier on my horses. :) Plus, I can wash my cotton rope reins in the washer instead of having to clean the leather ones all the time! Karen Thomas, NC
[IceHorses] Smooth horses - please don't just enjoy the ride!
Please, think about this. I bought my Big Mac for the wrong reasons in 1988. I felt sorry for him. I had barely started riding lessons when I bought him to free him from the stall he lived in 24x7. He was a padded Big Lick horse, one of a handful in the big self-care boarding barn where Emily and I were taking lessons on some three-gaited horses. I couldn't stand to see him, not quite five, confined to that stall all day. He was so personable - he'd nod and shake his head as anyone passed by, totally craving attention. So I inquired, found out he was for sale. I tried him, leased him for a trial and a month later I bought him. The day I wrote the check, I called a farrier out to start taking the pads off and trimming the feet down. (It's too dramatic to do it all at once - it has to be done gradually.) So, I had no choice about his feet during the trial period. He wasn't mine, so I couldn't trim him down. Mac was just shown on a local-regional level, so I don't think he was ever chemically sored - but the long toes and pads were bad enough. Why do you think the practices of letting the feet grow long started? Because it can make the horse wonderfully smooth to ride! Mac was amazingly smooth. But that is no excuse! I could have chosen to ignore the pads and just enjoy my comfortable-to-ride but padded horse. Would that have been right? Heavens no! There are many cases less dramatic than Big Lick horses. I just wrote up two others: Loftur's back pain, and Skjoni's saddle fit. Oh yeah, there was Sina's initial paciness due to saddle fit and my stiffness - but she was smooth to ride too! All of these were smooth to ride, despite the problems! And Nancy wrote about her horse's lameness that showed up in his gaits. You can simply ride a smooth horse without questioning, but please, think about it. Even if you don't learn all the subtle difference in all of the gaits, please start by learning some of the basics. Your horse may be fine now, but odd are, over the course of his life, he'll give you some clues about his soundness via his gaits. Bottom line: Ignorance may be bliss, at least for the rider, but it's often not so blissful for the horses...I've learned a lot from these rehabs I've taken in, but believe me, I don't want to take in YOUR horse as a rehab someday in the future. Karen Thomas, NC
[IceHorses] My tangent!
Hey Virginia, It just occurred to me that you might think my tangent on the list was directed at you. Quite the opposite! Those are good questions for any concerned owner to ask. But, we've had too many people who are professionals that poo-poo the need to know about all the gaits in the past, some even denying that the alternate gaits even exist. Living in the south where gaited horses are common, I'm lucky to have a couple of good resources locally to help me with my horse's gaits, people to ask for second opinion, including a good friend who's a lifelong gaited horse owner (and a vet, who got a minor in horsemanship before going to vet school) who now owns Icelandics. We've worked through a lot our questions together, with the help of our local trainer, and with the help of Liz Graves, and with Lee Ziegler's book. The Icelandic world hasn't been a good place to learn about gaits though, and too often the horses suffer. I give credit to Judy, Lee and Liz for being some of he most vocal people who got the pleasure riders in the TWH breed thinking and asking questions...and now we are seeing a breed that had morphed into being VERY pacey just a decade have a strong comeback with a NATURAL running walk. (Don't get me wrong - that breed still has problems, but there are also some really positive signs that some things are changing.) You simply won't get that kind of pressure for breeders to produce natural and easy gaits from the show people - it has to come from the everyday pleasure riders like us. I hope we don't have to hit bottom like the TWH did for the people in this breed to wise up. I think you've done a lot right for Gat. I SO understand your being overwhelmed with all there is to know about gaits. Gosh, how long have I been working on this and I still have lots of gait questions. I certainly don't think you need to have a full grasp of all the gaits right now, and maybe not ever. I had to dig deeply because 1) I've been breeding, and because 2) I've had these rehabs to work with. I think it should be part of every gaited horse owner's responsibility to learn some basics about all the gaits as they apply to their horses. Don't feel like you have to learn it all today though. Learn what you can from your two horses, as they reveal themselves to you. Horsemanship is a lifelong journey, right?! :) You're doing fine. I meant everything I wrote in my recent e-mails to the list, but don't take it at all that I was directing it all at you. I certainly wasn't. Thanks for always asking good questions. BTW, though, knowing something about gaits hasn't ONLY helped my rehabs. I think I can honestly say learning and digging may have kept a couple of our horses from accidentally becoming rehabs. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] OT/Hawaii
Our son and his wife moved their family to Maui a few years ago. The adults think they're living in heaven. The kids don't like it - don't like the beach, would you believe? Their older daughter has a full-ride scholarship to Yale and wouldn't even have come for the summer if she had been able to find a job in New Haven. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Spooky mare update
On 24/06/07, ellwilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My plans are to continue this progress over the winter, and our goal is to attend one of the icelandic clinics next spring, together as a team! Etain Hello Etain Good for you! Sounds like you're making wonderful progress. When you say Icelandic clinicwhat sorts of specific things are you intending to learn at the clinic? I've gone to a few clinics without auditing first. One turned out well...and one not so good...not for my horse, but one other one that was there. Wanda
[IceHorses] Re: What Gait / Stjarni
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, if you can find what he DOES do naturally, and thru two-way communication, get him set in that gait, so that you AND he know about it, it's really a sweet place to be. Of course, that means YOU, the rider / trainer needs to know more about gaits :-). But you don't *have* to :-) Different gaits can be hard to see, even in videos sometimes, I think I am getting better at it:) It's really harder to see what they are doing in real life, but I don't think it's impossible. I *think* I saw my filly (2yrs old) doing a nice running walk yesterday. I would be thrilled if she ends up doing a running walk, even though it's not really the signature gait of the KMSH. She does multiple gaits, she used to trot at liberty, I'm not sure if she is doing this anymore, I haven't seen it in a while, but I'm not there all the time. It seems to me that a RW would be a great, easy trail gait. I should, for the fun of it, get Snorri out and see what kind of gait I can get him to do on a line. The video of Snorri and a mounting block maybe out, I realized that the mounting block is not being used as stairs for the above ground pool:), so I'll have to think of something else. The kids are usually around now that school is out, so maybe I can get them to take a video. Kim
[IceHorses] stjarni goes bitlesss!
so today i was teaching two lessons, and when the first (my littlest student, twelve years old) was finishing grooming and starting to tack up, she asked, so what if you didn't bridle a horse before you got on? and (largely thanks to this list) i said, well, let's try and see, shall we? so we found two lead ropes and attached them to either side of stjarni's halter. i took him around once or twice (walk, tolt, circles) to make sure he was happy and responsive, which he was. then my little student got on, and had a great lesson. we worked on a cones course and steering on the fly (okay, now circle left around the small blue barrel) with excellent results, a very fun lesson. before student #2 arrived, i got on (still with the halter, though by then we'd switched to a pair of nylon reins, as the lead ropes had proved too thick for littlest's hand comfort) and took stjarni around, walk, trot, tolt, canter, and found all to be well. so when student #2 did arrive, i had her ride in the halter too! stjarni did well for her as well -- since she is a more advanced adult rider, he doesn't baby her to the extent he does the small children. he did very nicely w/t/t/c for her, but was a bit balky on one side of the ring -- which (with instruction) she corrected by using a shorter and more open rather than direct rein (these may be centered-riding terms; i forget -- please ask if not immediately obvious). anyway, i have never been prouder of my pony boy than today, which afaik was his first time being ridden without a bit. what a lovely, sweet, cooperative pony! i am truly blessed :) mildly ecstatically yours, --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Spooky mare update
your horse sounds a lot like my Tivar, only a more extreme case... Just be careful... some people think if a horse acts bad and you are in a clinic situation with many peanut gallery people egging you on and you give in to peer pressure--- not good. Because some horses need to not be pushed, but are so intelligent they will fight it to death whereas if you give them some soaking time etc you can make great strides later. Which you are doing now. and if it aint broke dont fix it! The icelandic thing could be a mistake. Only reason I say this--- if they do tight nosebands or anything run like heck... i think Tivar would kill if you put a tight noseband on him. and i think some horses will just kill themselves if not the person if in situations they find unbearable. If they feel trapped. But your horse, maybe she trusts you now and will allow you to rescue her if the clinic person puts her into a situation that makes her freak. I should take out icelandic and put in any clinic because any clinician can cause these situations. Just dont be afraid to pull out in the middle if your horse isnt good with whatever is going on. Sometimes its better to cut your losses than cause harm that will take years and years to undo. also, some nationally touring very successful clinicians are monstrous in my opinion. And really, I mean it, I know they are. I in fact don't even mind mentioning names and policies! For instance, the guy who invented the Noavel Headstall. I forget his name. He goes all over giving clinics, selling videos, has been on rfdtv. Guess what that headstall is?? A hackamore where the nose part is a piece of heavy steel re-bar covered in leather. Do you know what rebar is? It is heavy steel, ribbed, about a half inch in diameter, weighs tons. And it is designed so if the horse acts up they go bump-bump with it. So in the demo, which I have seen, when the horse tries all manner of panicked desperate measure to be free of the pain of that device, first rearing, then bucking, he finally submits, hanging his head a foot from the ground, dazed, broken, then if you hang around, they always wait til the show is way over to load their horses , watch as they trailer load. It takes like 6 people with whips and the horse rearing at the end of a lead. Monstrous. so just cause someone is on tv, goes around giving clinics, doesnt mean they aren't a-hole monster psycho trainer of the year. jmo. jme Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] what gait
oh! we were standing in line to go in the gait for walk trot and this little show princess about 14 years old beside us said I like your horse's hair. My friend David said what about his tail braid where I had put in a little fishtail braid at the top then looped it like I had seen in pics. The little girl wrinkled her nose and said welll, if you were showing him halter, but not for walk trot. Who KNEW. My lord its a wonder we werent thrown out of the joint! Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Jaspar is funny!
On 6/24/07, Virginia Tupper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Love the photo! So--how DID he win the ribbon if he can't trot?! V actually, this is a great question V, and I am happy to be able to answer it... my friend who rode him in walk trot, is a person so experienced at dog showing that he is frequently flown all over the world as a guest judge at dog shows. He knows that show world inside and out. He is a professional dog versatility and herding trials trainer and judge. So he knows showing. Now he has a green horse, a mare that is Jaspar's cousin, my fox's full sibling by another breeding, and she is green, but he has plans to show her at versatility WGC level. It is very interesting to me to see how this training goes, he knows nothing about horse training per se, but EVERYTHING about training for show etc. He already has this green mare going through obstacle courses at liberty etc yet has only ridden her briefly twice. So anyway. He wanted to show a horse. We laughed about how horrible it would be with Jaspar, how he would lose, but he didnt care, he just wanted the expereince for HIM. well. ve interestingly, he knows how to show, right? So he followed the rules to the letter. When the announcer asked for a transition, he would transition even tho he didnt have trot he would immediately go into a faster gait. Or if asked for walk, or turn on the rail, he would imediately do those things while others would let their horses go on too long, have probs turning them on the rail etc. Also some could not back up 4 steps when lined up at the judge. So I actually think it was a good judge who gave Jas a ribbon over horses that trotted when he didnt, because the others were horses that could have easily beat Jaspar if they had listened to the rules. a good learning experience for me! Another thing my friend taught me from example... the cakewalk was about to be canceled cause they only had one cake. My friend said no! He would drive to winn dixie and buy cakes and he did. Then when the club members were calling for members to come help put out jumps etc, my friend just went up and pitched in, he wasnt a member, it was his first horse show, but he has hosted so many dog shows he knew what it meant when they needed a hand. It would have never ocurred to me to pitch in, but will next time. It was a learning experience for me! Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] bad day/good day
On 6/24/07, Virginia Tupper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great photos!!! Obviously you didn't hurt yourself when you fell--but that is so scary that your helmet was totalled! Thank goodness you had it on! V and Tivar's most obvious statement-- I landed in a pile of fresh poop so it covered my right shoulder/arm the rest of the day showing jaspar... Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Escalating Behaviors / Listen To Your Horse
Talking about that 'still small voice' -- I don't know if I'm getting weird with my age, but, I get impressions of feeling trapped when I go to my barn to see my horses, like I want to have space, fields, freedomI can't wait till we find our own place. V those might be visuals sent by your horses :) I received a visual from my Stonewall once. Everyone says I am nuts, but i did, i know it, and no one will convince me otherwise. When he had anemia and went down in the trail last year... There was no outward sign whatsoever, everything about him was completely normal, and about 10 minutes before it happened I suddenly had the clearest visual thought, just clear as day a mental image of him lying down in the middle of the trail with his saddle on, and I thought it was me projecting negatrive thoughts and immediately forced myself to think of something happy. Then ten minutes later when it happened, I jumped off, whirled to look at him and he was laying there, the exact mental image he had sent me, i know he was trying to tell me he couldnt go much longer, he needed to lie down... Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Bigger Bit? Or something else?
Thanks Laree, These web pages were extremely useful. Just what I was looking for to give me more info. Gale http://www.redwrench.com/mischorse/bits/biteval.htm http://www.redwrench.com/mischorse/bits/biteval.htm http://www.redwrench.com/mischorse/bits/severity.htm http://www.redwrench.com/mischorse/bits/severity.htm http://www.redwrench.com/mischorse/bits/bitparts.htm http://www.redwrench.com/mischorse/bits/bitparts.htm http://iceryder.net/bitmechanics.html http://iceryder.net/bitmechanics.html
Re: [IceHorses] what gait
On 6/24/07, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this a FOXtrot?? this is my friend in walk trot on Jaspar, who deosnt trot, he is pacey if anything That does look like it might could be a foxtrot - I guess maybe that's why Jaspar was chuckling in the other picture. :) i know, probably laughing his tail off at me, thinking she thinks its a stepping pace and its a foxtrot heehee Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
Janice McDonald wrote: So I wonder if you put two gaited horses in together if they will start mirroring gait and perhaps even lock it in. I notice that when Kopar is gaiting at liberty in the paddock, Starri more often than not gaits rather than his usual trot. This is when they are chasing each other around. I've tried to sneak up on them to get pics but they always notice me and stop what they are doing to come and say hi. Trish
RE: [IceHorses] Road Founder / Karen
That's interesting. What do you use for protection on the trails if not bell boots? As usuall my english in terrific!! ok the are made of neoprene and I do also have leather one´s you strap them on the leg underneath the knee (front legs)and I have thoose that that cover also..darn forgot the name but you know ..next ? just above the hofok everbody got it hehhemm.. you know just orginal leg/sinew protection. Kvedja Malin
Re: [IceHorses] bad day/good day
. as soon as I get a good pic of my busted helmet Janice I am happy for the good part of your day - that had to be fun. Would you and anyone lese that has pic of a busted helmet from a fall, please send me a copy. I am doing a talk for the local 4-H club next month on helemet wearing and safety and would love some pics to show. I want to make as big an impact as I can. If I can just get a few of these kids to wear a helmet that ordinarily wouldn't I will have done a good days work. -- Laree
Re: [IceHorses] Road f......Trish
I googled Ice tolt and lots of hits came upMalin, are these all old films/photos? Trish the pic at Icelandichorsehomepage is from winter 2005/06 from a competion held nearby saudarkrók that year and on icelandicsonice it´s from last winter I think (as I don´t download as my Internet is very slow) and it´s 1 a year held a competion by Egillstadir and 1 competion Icetolt in Egillshöll (stadium) and on lake myvatn, last year in Egillstadir they had to move the competion Higher up into the Highlands as they didn´t got any Ice nearby Egillstadir. and last Winter it was for the first time held one competion at Svinavatn nearby Blönduósi and on this big competions lake myvatn, Egillstadir ,Egillshöll and know first time on svinavatn it´s always the same 5 riders that has time and money to travel around. and other competioners in local persons so ..not much riding on Ice I think. Kvedja Malin in still sunny iceland
[IceHorses] Clicker Training a Foal
This is a great video: http://iceryder.net/videoclickerfoal.html Please feel free to forward. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Road Founder / Karen
Hi you strap them on the leg underneath the knee (front legs)and I have thoose that that cover also..darn forgot the name but you know ..next ? just above the hofok everbody got it hehhemm.. you know just orginal leg/sinew protection. You probably mean brush boots - they go around the cannon bone - between the knee and the fetlock joint? Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] Clicker Training a Foal
Hi Judy, Nice video she does a good job of combining having the foal do things by itself and then with a halter. I know people who prefer to use scratching rather than food with foals to prevent the mugginess and expectation of always getting food. Is clearly not a problem with this foal. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] Strangles
I have recently heard enough that I have asked him to order 8 doses for my 8 horses. I just hope that I do not make them sick. Renee - Please make sure you know the complete history of your horses and that they haven't had strangles or been exposed to it (sometimes after being exposed, they'll get a light case and it won't be noted that it is strangles) They can get a severe reaction from the shot if they've had it in the past. We had a horse boarding at a barn and the BO just decided to vacinate everyone in the barn for Starngles without mentioning it to the owners. Our Polish Warmblood had had strangles as a youngster and it was touch and go for awhile. needless to say we left that barn shortly thereafter.-- Laree
Re: [IceHorses] slobber straps
On 6/24/07, Lorraine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know what the slobber straps are good for? I know Parreli uses them. My understanding is that the weight of them gives a 'release' quicker -- which makes me wonder, wouldn't reins with a metal clip do the same thing? I alway use clips so I can unhook if I have to. You would think that would be the same weight. I don't know Happy Trails from Lori Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
When we went to buy our Icelandics, I would only look at horses that were gaiting at liberty. Ours both gait at liberty. In fact, I have never seen Tosca trot. Oh, great!! Can you send us videos? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] slobber straps
thing? limitation I see is that you can't reduce the weight of the contact by loosening the rein as you can with a regular leather rein. Robyn, Would they be good for a hard mouthed horse? Happy Trails from Lori Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
Re: [IceHorses] More boring trail pictures...
Thanks..love all the photos. :0] Raven Lucy Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
So, yes, it is an interesting question in regard to Icelandic Horses since they are rarely ever seen in gait at liberty! I don't agree with that Judy, at least not as phrased. If you mean that Icelandic Horses are rarely seen in the signature breed gait of tolt then yes, I totally agree. I think we should try to compile videos of the Icelandics gaiting at liberty, to see what we can come up with. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] slobber straps
Not all rope reins are so heavy Right. I'm talking about the ones that actually *are* heavy. I use rope reins too, just not the heavy Parelli-type ones. Mine are rather light, and comfortable for both me and the horse. But, please don't be so quick to say that people use them for appearances only! I didn't say that ALL people who use them do so for appearances. Many people who are excellent riders and have light hands like them and use them. But I've also seen many people who get them (incl. mecates and slobber straps so they have the whole package) who have no idea how to use them properly, and simply have them b/c they are cool and indicate some knowledge about NH, whatever that might mean to that person. Or they use them b/c their favorite clinician uses and recommends them. I think many of us in NH started out w/ this attitude before we discovered that not everything that a clinician recommends will work for everyone. Robyn
RE: [IceHorses] Road Founder / Karen
darn forgot the name but you know ..next ? just above the hofok everbody got it hehhemm.. you know just orginal leg/sinew protection. Your English is fine, Malin! Thanks for answering. I just wanted to clarify that you were indeed using some sort of protective boots other than bell boots, and you clearly got that point across. I don't see anything wrong with that if you think your particular horse needs some extra protection on the terrain you're riding on. I was just curious. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Gaits / Tolt
On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 11:09:16AM -0600, Robyn Schulze wrote: stjarni is the only horse i've seen in this area doing anything like soft lateral gaits (at any of the barns i've ridden at, at shows, at the beach, on the trails -- several hundred horses). I must say, I find this completely bizarre. What's with you New Englanders? Who wants to be pounded in the butt everytime they want an intermediate gait? I'm glad you got smart Vicka. *laughs* as a total convert, i gotta say i'm finding it a bit bizarre myself. i ride stjarni almost exclusively, but i recently got on a few different three-gaited horses that my students were considering leasing (both qh-type paints) and found myself going, but where's the tolt? and why isn't there any mane? and why am i so far off the ground? :) and i haven't even had stjarni a year yet! (though my previous usual mounts were a 12.3 pinto and a 14.2 appaloosa, so i was already unused to being very far up :) (i confess i did like the quarab one of my students had already chosen for himself, with one of those long-suspended trotsbut i wouldn't swap stjarni with him for longer than a few miles on a trail ;) incidentally i owe roo grubis for this conversion -- she gave me one lesson three years ago on the arabian i was leasing at the time (i had just returned to riding), and at the end she said you know, a lot of peope come into icelandics from arabians; all the brains without the teleport gene. a few weeks later she and her icey moved to vermont, and i didn't lay eyes on her again or meet her horse at all until the recent clinic. strange world. oh -- and speaking of vermont, i should mention the vermont icelandic horse farm, where i did ride a mare named litfrida twice in a weekend, and which is (obviously) also in new england. i've just been there once (it's not close as new englanders count close :) but i'm sure they have introduced many people to the breed; as far as i can tell it just has not become very widespread. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Spooky mare update
For instance, the guy who invented the Noavel Headstall. I forget his name. He goes all over giving clinics, selling videos, has been on rfdtv. Guess what that headstall is?? A hackamore where the nose part is a piece of heavy steel re-bar covered in leather. Do you know what rebar is? It is heavy steel, ribbed, about a half inch in diameter, weighs tons. And it is designed so if the horse acts up they go bump-bump with it. So in the demo, which I have seen, when the horse tries all manner of panicked desperate measure to be free of the pain of that device, first rearing, then bucking, he finally submits, hanging his head a foot from the ground, dazed, broken, then if you hang around, they always wait til the show is way over to load their horses , watch as they trailer load. It takes like 6 people with whips and the horse rearing at the end of a lead. Monstrous. Good Lord--that's sick!! I've never heard of that before. Sounds a bit like those horrible Easy-stop hackamores, which even the author of my favorite bit book deplores. Robyn S.
Re: [IceHorses] slobber straps
It was good except for stopping. I like to stop. LOL Me too! The best way to get a horse to stop is by teaching it what a one-rein stop is, so it becomes automatic. Now on a runaway horse, Judy just posted a great article on that about *riding* a runaway horse as opposed to trying to stop it. The article also pointed out that a one-rein stop in that situation can be dangerous, as it can cause the horse to run into something or even fall over. I don't think I'd use a one-rein stop at anything faster than a trot/gait. But so far I've managed to diffuse any problems before I needed to even do that. Robyn S.
RE: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
I think we should try to compile videos of the Icelandics gaiting at liberty, to see what we can come up with. That would be cool indeed. I know I have some, but could try to get more. Do you have any particular gaits at liberty you'd like to see - foxtrot, stepping pace, running walk, saddle rack...? I probably can't find any of the true rack, since I admit I don't see much of it in Icelandic horses at liberty. One thing I like to see is the horse being able to change gaits in different situations. I know under saddle it can be annoying for the horse to be constantly shifting gaits, but when they are playing, changing directions, maybe running through different footings, up and down little hills, I think it's an advantage for them to have an array of gaits to pick from - including a canter and a trot or foxtrot. Do others see that as a plus...? Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[IceHorses] Viking Parade
Here are a few pictures of the Icelandic Horses that were in a Viking Parade, along with a couple of pictures of Fjords: http://www.vikingfest.org/photos_07/pages/DSCN5705_JPG.htm There are tons of pictures there about the parade, carnival, fair, picnic, fish-eating contest, boats, motorcycles, dancing, etc., but this one stands out: http://www.vikingfest.org/photos_07/pages/DSCN5156_JPG.htm Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] One Rein Stop
Here's some information on the one-rein stop, disengagement, etc.: http://iceryder.net/onereinstop.html Please feel free to forward. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Treeless saddles
helped my back/pelvis problems a lot over the past year. Did Feldenkrais alone for over 22 years daily, but the addition of the strengthening Egoscue exercises formulated specifically for my needs has made a world of difference. I can wholly rec. Egoscue. The menus are designed online from digital pics of you only cost $50.00 per menu. After $ spent on chiros/osteopaths/acupuncture etc., this $400.00 over the past 1 1/2 years has been the best investment I've made I do them at home with a chair/belt a pillow. Any one interested in contact info., e-mail me off-list. Kaaren Kaaren: Do you swim at all? I find that 1/2 hour of leisurely breast-stroke does my lower back a world of good. I try to do it every day even if I don't get to it until the middle of the night. But it helps more than anything I have ever tried. Anneliese
RE: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
Hi Karen, I don't agree with that Judy, at least not as phrased. If you mean that Icelandic Horses are rarely seen in the signature breed gait of tolt then yes, I totally agree. But I see a lot of gait in my horses at liberty. I would agree with you Karen. Especially the foals but also as they are growing. I need to go into the pasture and take some video of our horses going into and out of the grass eating pasture and also the young horses. I would be very interested to see if anyone has photos of horses in tolt/ rack free in the pasture. Would also like to see a photo of a TWH racking without a rider. Karen and Janice you may have seen it?? The question then becomes are Rack/ Tolt as defined mostly human influenced gait??? Just a question well worth looking at, IMO. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
[IceHorses] Re: Clicker Training a Foal
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a great video: http://iceryder.net/videoclickerfoal.html Please feel free to forward. It is a great video! We can always start over just like this, even when the horses are older. Kim
RE: [IceHorses] slobber straps
Hi Karen I've heard that too, but not all have equal movement. It depends on how bit the rein loop is on the bit, compared to the mouth of the snaps. That is very true. My thoughts about the metal snaps giving a disconnected feeling only comes from 'being the horse' wearing a bridle with reins with snaps and without. There is a different kind of movement, BUT, I didn't try with a variety of snaps and I think that a small scissor snap would be quite different that the kinds I tried. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
I need to go into the pasture and take some video of our horses Yes, that would be great! When can you get some videos for us to view? Judy
[IceHorses] About Bitless Bridles / Rhythm Beads
From Rebecca (who also does rhythm beads, see her site below): I've used a Dr. Cook's bitless, non-mechanical hackamores, sidepulls and a custom-made bosal/sidepull hybrid that I got from Lodge Ropes (based in Australia). I've found the basic sidepull functionality to work the best for my horse and me. The concept of the Dr. Cook's is nice, and it does work for some people successfully, but there have been comments about the release not being sufficient when using the ones made of Beta. I personally didn't notice this; my compaint with it was more that the signals from the reins seemed to me to be pretty vague (because the pressure is applied over such a broad area). One question that is asked regularly about bitless bridles is, Will it stop my horse?.. The basic answer to this is that if you require a bit or mechanical hackamore in order to stop your horse, then it is probably not a good idea to be riding that horse under circumstances where you think you might have a runaway situation. Pulling back on both reins to stop a horse is a Very Bad Idea, and I have found through personal experience that once a horse is in full flight mode, no bridle - bitted or not - is going to stop him. You're best off trying to ride it out (less likely to get injured if you stay on) or performing an emergency dismount, and working on the one rein stop (on a regular basis, until it becomes reflex for your horse) once you get back home. I'm actually working on a bitless bridle design at the moment - but I'm still refining the design, so it may be a few weeks or even months before I'm happy with the prototype. Sincerely, Rebecca -- http://www.ElatedEquine.com
[IceHorses] Re: Breed signature gaits
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would also like to see a photo of a TWH racking without a rider. Karen and Janice you may have seen it?? The question then becomes are Rack/ Tolt as defined mostly human influenced gait??? I'm not Karen or Janice, but here is a video to look at. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx5-fxbMWgo I think this horse is 1/2 TWH technically. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think I see a single foot support phase in this, in the beginning, before he runs off, the larger horse looks pacey to me. I can get videos of horses at liberty, but I can't guarantee they will be pure TWH. Kim
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
I would be very interested to see if anyone has photos of horses in tolt/ rack free in the pasture. Would also like to see a photo of a TWH racking without a rider. Karen and Janice you may have seen it?? The question then becomes are Rack/ Tolt as defined mostly human influenced gait??? Just a question well worth looking at, IMO. Robyn thats a good question-- and a good challenge. i will make an extra effort to get some pics of my horses gaiting in the field. I have some now maybe, will look. As for human influence... in my horses that gait naturally I have noticed it is never steady. thus why its so hard to capture in any of them because there is no human on board to correct/alter/influence rate of speed. So when gaiting at liberty, mine are usually galloping at play, drop into a gait, transition back and forth in and out of other gaits. But a human on board would alter the speed until they stick I think. Personally I do not believe rack/tolt are gaits mostly human influenced. in some horses yes, totally human contrived even, but so many do it naturally or as a preferred default natural gait. Janice yipie tie yie yo
RE: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
Personally I do not believe rack/tolt are gaits mostly human influenced. I guess I read that a little differently from you, Janice. I took Robyn to mean that maybe rack/tolt might be the easiest to achieve via manipulation, and that I agree with. I know it is VERY human-manipulated in Saddlebreds. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Smooth horses - please don't just enjoy the ride!
On 6/25/07, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bottom line: Ignorance may be bliss, at least for the rider, but it's often not so blissful for the horses... That makes sense. What confuses me though is, if Gat consistently offers some form of pace, doesn't that mean she prefers to do it or is conformed to do it? Is pace to be avoided no matter what? V
RE: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
I need to go into the pasture and take some video of our horses going into and out of the grass eating pasture and also the young horses. That would be great, Robyn! I know folks get tired of seeing videos and pics of my horses moving about, and you certainly have more horses at your farm than I do. I would be very interested to see if anyone has photos of horses in tolt/rack free in the pasture. Of all the pictures I take, I have exactly TWO pictures where I've caught one of my own Icelandic's in a true tolt/rack in the pasture. It was Saga's filly, Tifa, taken when she was just a couple of months old. I don't have it on video though, just a couple of sequential pictures. Karen and Janice you may have seen it?? Honestly, I've never seen many horses rack at liberty in person, but yes, I have seen little videos and still pictures of TWH-racking-type horses racking at liberty - I just can't remember if they were TWH, racking horses, or some crossbreds though. There is a TWH mare down the road from me who racks very nicely and with apparent ease, but I've never seen her do any gait above a walk without a rider up. She's a trail horse, and as far as I know, has never been padded or oddly shod. I could ask her owner, and go watch her, because she's the closest horse to me that I think MIGHT rack in the field. Neither of my TWH rack at liberty...although I suspect Mac may have in his younger days. But, remember, Mac had some lingering muscle memory from his awful early BL training, so I wouldn't count that as fully natural. I have a suspicion that Mac, like many TWH of his generation would have been pacey even young without that early training - he certainly converted (reverted?) to pace as he aged. I'm so sorry now that I don't have any videos and more still pictures of us riding him in his early post-BL days, or of his gaits at liberty. I'm sure I could have learned a lot from him during that time, had I only known what to look for. Holly does a foxtrot, running walk and trot at liberty - and to think, I once naively thought her to be a defectively gaited TWH because she would trot! Live and learn! (To my defense, I simply rode her as a three-gaited horse, posting to her trot for my sanity, until I got a handle on what all she could do, but knowing I was missing out on her gaits. Trotting certainly didn't ruin her gaits though, and her top line looks very nice for a horse her age.) The question then becomes are Rack/ Tolt as defined mostly human influenced gait??? Just a question well worth looking at, IMO. I think it's a very good question, and from what I've heard from the local old-school type trainers, yes, I think that rack/tolt is the most easily influenced/manipulated gait of all, no matter what the breed. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IceHorses] slobber straps
Hi Lorraine, Lorraine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in a Dr. Cook's bitless, which has the same problem as the slobber straps in that the reins tend to flop around unless you have contact all the time, esp. w/ the snaps. Thanks for everyone's input. I appreciate it. I have been around horses for about 30 years and still there is so much to learn. I tried the bitless on my MFT. It was good except for stopping. I like to stop. LOL Happy Trails from Lori I have trained a few icelandics in Dr Cook's biteless bridle, I have one of his old bridles and one with his newest ones. I have never had a problem with stopping a horse with the biteless bridle, ours stop better with the bitless bridle. But I put a stop on the horse long before I ever got them under saddle first. I have tried the slobber straps and I don't really like them I think they are just to heavy, but I do use a the sccissor snaps on my rope reins. I have about 15 different type of reins I that I use when I ride. With the slopper strap reins they are on forever and I always like to use different reins for training. SOme are real thin width, some are rubber, some are thin cotton, some are barrel racing reins, just to name a few of the different reins I have hanging in tack room. Anne
Re: [IceHorses] Bigger Bit? Or something else?
These web pages were extremely useful. Just what I was looking for to give me more info. Great stuff! THanks for sharing. Robyn S.
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
--- Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but i dont think its a trot. I would say saddle rack or stepping pace Actually, I think it IS a trot because the diagnal legs are working together. Susan in NV Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ ___ You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html
RE: [IceHorses] Re: slobber straps
Hi Judy I wonder how that type of contact would compare to the weight of an icelandic bit? I am sure that the contact is less but why is everything so extreme? There is a space in the middle between the weight of the heavy rope contact and pounds of pressure on the reins as if often used in the ISTR. How about how the heavy rope reins contact(some weight but free flowing and moving with the horse) would compare to the ISTR (icelandic style training and riding) contact Again looking in the middle, which is why I sometimes don't feel like I fit anywhere, if you ride with a connected contact, not pull, on a leather rein you can have a definite release as you encourage the horse to stretch - a heavy rope rein maintains the contact and you have less choice. How many pounds pressure would be in your hand? It is always interesting to look at it from different perspectives. Wearing a bridle on your head and feeling different signals is always a good one for people - feel different reins - weight, way of holding, pulling vs connection or no connection; rider posture, even standing on the ground. Always helpful to make people think about what they are doing. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
Hi Susan Actually, I think it IS a trot because the diagnal legs are working together. Or is it a fox trot??? No wonder it is so difficult... Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] A different question/hawaii herd
--- Robyn Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you come back over we would love to hang with youcould fill you in on where to stay, and what to do and stuff like thatplus you could see our Icelandics... Thanks! I will keep that in mind! My son loves Hawaii, and says when he grows up, he will move there, work (at what, I'm not sure--he wants to be a herpetologist, but I told him that there aren't any snakes in Hawaii), and play on the computer. I told him he can play on the computer anywhere... Robyn Actually they do need trained people who can identify snakesyou see there are Huge Matson containers coming into hawaii daily, and each one has to be checked for snakes and other things.they do find snakes, they have to be identified and looked at and whatever else they do to do once they are caughtguam has snakes, and its just a short hop over to there..just to let you know, he might be able to do it, but he would not be handling a lot of snakes say if he worked in S. America, where their would be snakes everywhere! Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] Made my own car wash
On 25/06/07, susan cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been wanting to do this for a while, so I bought 3 10' pieces of PVC pipe, 2 90* elbow joints, a tarp and some shower curtain rings. I placed the PVC in trash cans and filled with sand to secure them, split my tarp and VOILA - a car wash for about $20!! Good idea! What else do you have up your sleeve? And yes...he's beautiful. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
On 25/06/07, Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Susan Actually, I think it IS a trot because the diagnal legs are working together. Or is it a fox trot??? No wonder it is so difficult... Robyn Not really. If the foot fall looks like a trot, but the horse's head is moving...or nodding that indicates it's a foxtrot. Also, there will be a bit of a bob to the tail carriage as well. We can all recognize the foot fall of a trotbut it's the rest of the horse that tells the story when a foxtrot is happening. Wanda
RE: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
Hi Wanda Not really. If the foot fall looks like a trot, but the horse's head is moving...or nodding that indicates it's a foxtrot. Also, there will be a bit of a bob to the tail carriage as well. Thanks, I find that much easier to feel on the horse that really see in one frame of a photo. So is Janice's horse trotting, saddle rack, stepping pace Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com We can all recognize the foot fall of a trotbut it's the rest of the horse that tells the story when a foxtrot is happening. Wanda The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] The video every Icelandic Horse owner should have: http://IceHorses.net/video.html [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses [] IceHorses ToolBar http://iceryder.ourtoolbar.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
how come nobody is telling me what fox's weird high headed I am a marauding young warrior gait is? Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Viking Parade
i think i sighted a mongol horde person in there... Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
On 25/06/07, Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how come nobody is telling me what fox's weird high headed I am a marauding young warrior gait is? Janice Where is the pic? Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Made my own car wash
since he is so beautiful, I took a pic of him! His eyes just make you melt - what a doll -- Laree
RE: [IceHorses] Smooth horses - please don't just enjoy the ride!
That makes sense. What confuses me though is, if Gat consistently offers some form of pace, doesn't that mean she prefers to do it or is conformed to do it? Is pace to be avoided no matter what? I think that's the $64,000 question. Personally, I think some horses are so wired and/or conformed for pace that trying to force them to trot is as bad as trying to force a three-gaited horse to pace. That's the delicate question that is SOOO hard - at what point are we forcing as opposed to encouraging? I don't think many of us would like the idea of forcing a horse to gait - but defining force is very subjective, and I imagine each of us has a slightly different definition of where that point is. I don't get the feeling that you have forced Gat to do any gaits that she can't do...and that encouraging her to trot a little - or at least foxtrot a little - is only encouraging her to use some muscles she doesn't use often. I don't know though - I can't see you or Alex or her in person, so you have to think about that yourself. What I can see from the videos is that she and Alex look relaxed and happy together, and that's certainly a good sign. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
On 6/25/07, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally I do not believe rack/tolt are gaits mostly human influenced. I guess I read that a little differently from you, Janice. I took Robyn to mean that maybe rack/tolt might be the easiest to achieve via manipulation, and that I agree with. I know it is VERY human-manipulated in Saddlebreds. Karen Thomas, NC well maybe she can clarify cause I still am a little confused. Does she mean of all the gaits human--manipulated, rack/tolt is easiest to human-manipulate? or does she mean that rack/tolt is the gait most human influenced... cause honestly, i would disagree since many if not most walking horses do not do much other natural gait now but rack/tolt spectrum gaits. It seems almost the default gait of most twh and rhbaa and ssh and rmsh and kmh horses now. Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
RE: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
but i dont think its a trot. I would say saddle rack or stepping pace? I don't think it's a pure trot, but beyond that I couldn't say for sure. To be absolutely sure, you need to see the legs square-on from the side...and I know, I know, the horses at liberty seldom are so cooperative as to stay right in front of the camera like they should! I think it COULD be a foxtrot, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. :) Karen Thomas, NC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IceHorses] Re: slobber straps
I am sure that the contact is less but why is everything so extreme? There is a space in the middle between the weight of the heavy rope contact and pounds of pressure on the reins as if often used in the ISTR. Absolutely; I agree. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
I never thought about this before. Does this mean that in videos that one might see of Icelandics being brought in from the field, or following after a group of riders, that the ones that appear to be tolting are actually doing perhaps a saddle rack or a RW? Yep...or foxtrot...except that I see a surprising number who are trotting when you really start staring at the pictures. I've NEVER seen one in any of those videos who is actually doing a single-foot support tolt. I'm sure it's probably happened, but I've never seen one. Karen Thomas, NC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IceHorses] Treeless saddles
On 6/22/07, Pamela Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, Well, I went on a hour long trail ride using the sensation and my hip was killing me. I have hip problems and have gotten steroid shots in the past but usually doesn't hurt in the saddle. I dont have any hip probs at all and have owned several different models and brands of treeless saddles. First of all, how and what type of riding you do makes a difference. That being said... I owned a BMSS once that was my first treeless. After about an hour into a ride I would start feeling tension in my hips. After two hours my hips hurt. after 3 hours and into the 4th hour I would actually be hitching my legs up onto the horses shoulders for some relief. I started telling my friends that BMSS was killing my hips. My friend has hips so bad she is considering hip replacement and she has been riding a BMSS for years. I told her I felt a BMSS caused hip orbs because i didnt even HAVE hip probs and it hurt my hips. Why? because you sit in a position where your legs just hang straight down, no chair seat type bend at all in the frame. I ditched the BMSS. I have had several treeless since. The Sensation has the velcro thingie you can adjust either forward or back. That velcro thing is the key in my experience/opinion to hip pain/relief. because you can adjust it where you want. Janice yipie tie yie yo
[IceHorses] My first 25 mile LD endurance ride
Deacon and I completed our first endurance ride on June 23, 2007 at the Hopkins Creek ride near Manton, MI. We finished 25 miles in 4 ½ hours, including the hold time. Deacon stayed in camp this time. We used a highline instead of a pen, but He probably would have been fine either way. He could see other horses from where he was picketed and seemed content. My new friend Kathy and her Arabian gelding Jubilee graciously offered to ride with us so we wouldn't be alone on our first ride. I admit to shameless begging to convince her to do the 25 LD instead of competitive trail. We started on the orange and yellow loop at 7:00 am slightly behind the rest of the competitors. We walked for ten minutes and then picked up a 6.25 mph trot to carry us through the rest of the ride. The temperature was 58 degrees Fahrenheit and the bugs (fortunately) were still sleeping. We jogged down sand roads and part of the Michigan shore-to-shore trails. The shore-to-shore equestrian trails are designated in traditional blue with a white hoof print on the trail marker. Deacon trucked along and flagged a little when we reached areas of deep sand. In no time at all we had reached the creek. Deacon enthusiastically slurped water before we crossed back into camp for our first vet check. Deacon was already at a pulse of 64 so I loosened his girth and waited for Kathy and Jubilee to finish with the vet. Deacon got a B for gut sounds and skin tenting, but A's on everything else. We headed to our bucket and box and I took off his bridle so he could have a snack. However, his hay bag did not look as tasty as my granola bar. I had a bite and gave him the rest. I took out a peanut butter sandwich and he gazed at it longingly. I took a bite and gave it to him. He would have consumed my Crystal Light, but couldn't figure out how to drink from the water bottle. So much for lunch! We started on the pink loop at 9:57 am. The deer flies and horseflies were awake and the trail was more open (i.e. hot) too. We met up with two fifty mile riders for a mile where the loops overlapped. They were on the orange and yellow loop for the second time and were traveling at a pace considerably faster than 6.25 mph. I asked Deacon to tolt for a short while because he was trying to pace with the faster horses and his trot was too fast to post. Water had been placed at the midway point and Deacon sipped gratefully from our bucket. I had been posting for 3 ½ hours by this point and was starting to feel tired. I had to grit my teeth and keep going. I was thankful for Kathy and Jubilee because it would have been difficult for me to motivate myself to keep up the pace. We cantered for a half mile on a wide gravel road to let the horses stretch out. I tried to switch diagonals frequently throughout the ride, but Deacon kept bouncing me back to his good side. We hit the two mile marker (two miles to finish) and decided to trot one more mile before walking in to the final vet check. I dismounted for the final ¼ mile and walked Deacon into camp. His pulse was already down to 60, but he was breathing harder than usual because he was hot. I slid his tack off and sponged him a little before presenting him to the vet for our completion. A volunteer pulse- taker was concerned about his breathing because a pony had gotten the thumps at another ride, but the vet wasn't concerned and just said his heart was in good shape and Icelandics have more surface area to cool than Arabians. He cooled down right away and I took him (and myself) back to our campsite for a snack and a nap. We are looking forward to our next ride close to home in September in the Keweenaw Peninsula. -Kristen and Deacon in MI
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
Judy - I am so technology challenged that I don't have a clue how to send a video. If I ever figure it out I'd like you not only to look at Yrsa and Tosca but also at Hunter the TWH. He rerely does a runnign walk, but I was out with my daughter on a narrow mountain trail and he was actually RWing for a short distance. Evern as a newbie I can recognize the RW by the head nod , the head position and the fact that it is so smooth. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] My first 25 mile LD endurance ride
--- djakni1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deacon and I completed our first endurance ride on June 23, 2007 at the Hopkins Creek ride near Manton, MI. We finished 25 miles in 4 ½ hours, including the hold time... We are looking forward to our next ride close to home in September in the Keweenaw Peninsula. -Kristen and Deacon in MI Well YEWHAW, Kristen!! Big Congrats to you!! There will be several of us Endurance folks on this list, now. But I won't be doing one with my Icelandic till late next year at the earliest. Just my 1/2 Arab, 1/2 TWH, Whisper this year. Nancy will be starting an Icelandic in Endurance, as well. One thing - WE NEED PICTURES! Susan in NV Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
Re: [IceHorses] FW: [KYANA_Icelandics] New address corection (alzheimr's???)
On 6/23/07 3:03 PM, Wanda Lauscher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 23/06/07, Anneliese Virro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List Members: Do you want to move to Kentucky AND receive an Icelandic Horse of your choice - mare or gelding - your choice? All you need to do is buy Tom Cowley's farm - picture and description attached. If only I had a $1,000,000I'd be there in a heartbeat.. Wanda You know, it never hurts to make an offer. If he doesn't accept it you are now worse off than before. I have often been surprised at offers that get accepted. Anneliese
Re: [IceHorses] My first 25 mile LD endurance ride
Congrats to you and Deacon! Thanks for sharing your experience! Cheryl ToltallyICE at Sand Creek Icelandic Horse Farm Icelandic Horses and Icelandic Sheepdogs email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.toltallyice.com
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaitsNancy and videos
--- Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy - I am so technology challenged that I don't have a clue how to send a video. Nancy, is your video camera digital? Do you download it to a file on your computer? If so, it is so simple to upload it to You-Tube. Go to their website and sign up - it's free! They walk you thru the uploading steps. My camera is a cheap-o Kodad digital that also takes videos - good enough to get some short 20-30 second videos! Then I download it to the computer program, and now it's in a folder to upload! Susan in NV Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/
RE: [IceHorses] A bit story
It may have been something like a kimberwick. I will have to search my catalog for a picture. A picture would be helpful - I can't quite visualize what you're talking about. I've seen some people locally using wonder bits on RMH. I think they are excessive on the horses I've seen them on, but that doesn't sound like what you're describing. Congratulations on your LD-completion! Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] My first 25 mile LD endurance ride
Way to go Kristen! Sounds like you did a very nice job of managing your ride. How nice to find a vet that knows about Icelandics. My TWH usually trots for the trot out, but will occassionaly gait. It's always a relief to have a vet that recognizes that he is not a three speed. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] A different question/hawaii herd
Actually they do need trained people who can identify snakes Ahh, he's only 11...he certainly might change his mind in the next 7-8 years! Did you know that the airport security folks in Guam use Jack Russells to check the crates and kill poisonous brown snakes that they find in shipments bound out of the country (esp. to HI). Pretty cool! The dogs find them, kill them, and are so quick about it that they rarely get bitten. Can't remember if they are treated regularly w/ antivenins anyway to the brown snake venom. But the JRT program apparently works well. Robyn
Re: [IceHorses] Viking Parade
Speaking of Mongol hordes. Our son was here for the weekend. We're in Oregon and he and his new wife live in New Jersey. Brian is half Vietnamese and Gaylena is from the Ukraine. They look like they could be mounted on Mongol ponies. Well I guess that would be if a Rutgers grad preppy would even recognize a pony. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] slobber straps
I have trained a few icelandics in Dr Cook's biteless bridle, I have one of his old bridles and one with his newest ones. I have never had a problem with stopping a horse with the biteless bridle, ours stop better with the bitless bridle. My MFT stops on a dime with the bits I use. Just curb bit, med port. But the bitless takes more muscle. He will stop. Just not as easy. I havn't tryed it on my Icey yet. I think it is too big. Happy Trails from Lori Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
Re: [IceHorses] Cracked helmet
I took the picture in 2005 as the date showed, but I probably cracked it about 1999 or 2000. Feel free to use it to scare small children - and adults too! Karen Thomas, NC I must send it to my friend in NV. She refuses to wear one. Like nothing could every happen to her. It kind of ticks me off. I hope she is right. Happy Trails from Lori Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
Re: [IceHorses] One Rein Stop
--- Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's some information on the one-rein stop, disengagement, etc.: I was not warned about Scooter bolting the time I goughed him with Cactus. It was just one of those things. Not too much cactus in CA. LOL Happy Trails from Lori Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/
Re: [IceHorses] Re: slobber straps
--- Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is important for people to remember that riding with heavy rope reins and slobbers straps on a loose rein is like having constant contact. Would that be bad for a hard mouth horse?? Lorraine Happy Trails from Lori Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/
Re: [IceHorses] A bit story
need all that leverage to begin with. Here is another situation where people have gaited horses and think they need special equipment -Kristen I use the Imus bit on my MFT. He does pretty well with it. Happy Trails from Lori Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/
Re: [IceHorses] slobber straps
Me too! The best way to get a horse to stop is by teaching it what a one-rein stop is, so it becomes automatic. I read that the one rein stop is dangerous. But Scooter stops with the bit I have now. A snaffle bit, I have to really pull. This one time he bolted, not his fault(cactus), I just rode it out and then pulled him to the side. Scarry stuff. Happy Trails from Lori Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
Re: [IceHorses] My first 25 mile LD endurance ride
Deacon and I completed our first endurance ride on June 23, 2007 at the Hopkins Creek ride near Manton, MI. We finished 25 miles in 4 ½ hours, including the hold time. Congrats!! Did you get any pictures on the ride? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
cause honestly, i would disagree since many if not most walking horses do not do much other natural gait now but rack/tolt spectrum gaits. Hmm, maybe that's regional? I really don't know many racky TWH - just the mare down the road comes to mind. Do you remember her? She was one of the several black TWH at the Liz clinic. The others seemed pretty natural at running walk - certainly more prone to r/w than to rack. Now PACEY TWH - oh yeah, I know plenty of them... Karen Thomas, NC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IceHorses] New address corection (alzheimr's???)
On 6/23/07 5:47 PM, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If only I had a $1,000,000I'd be there in a heartbeat.. Cool...and when I get rich, I'll buy the other farm for sale on the ridge above Unicorn Valley and we'll all be neighbors! :) Karen Thomas He is asking 450,000 for that one but I think he would take 400,000. Anneliese
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
On 6/25/07, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but i dont think its a trot. I would say saddle rack or stepping pace? I don't think it's a pure trot, but beyond that I couldn't say for sure. To be absolutely sure, you need to see the legs square-on from the side...and I know, I know, the horses at liberty seldom are so cooperative as to stay right in front of the camera like they should! I think it COULD be a foxtrot, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. :) i have always thought he did a RW and then when excited, head high, a saddle rack. But now I need to get some more pics for you guys cause maybe when he is excited he does a foxtrot! cool. You guys are so awesome to have around for gait analysis haha Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
reason I assumed saddle rack when excited--- under saddle it feels just like stonewalls verified saddle rack. so maybe a foxtrot under saddle can feel like a saddlerack! Janice
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
--- Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: reason I assumed saddle rack when excited--- under saddle it feels just like stonewalls verified saddle rack. so maybe a foxtrot under saddle can feel like a saddlerack! Maybe it's a foxrack, Janice! Liz found one of those in Whisper at the last clinic I went to. Susan in NV Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
I'll attach Fox's picture again, and also a picture of a horse in stepping pace. How do they compare? Judy I pulled out my Easy-Gaiting Horses book to try and figure this outand it's so confusing!! On Page 124 are illustrations of the stepping pace and on page 156 are illustrations of the hard/true pace. The illustrations look exactly the same to me! Is it the speed that determines whether it's a stepping pace vs. hard pace? From the illustrations in Lee's book (page 134, Ill. 2), it looks like Janice's Fox is doing a fox trot? Trish
[IceHorses] Yearling gaiting (sometimes)at liberty
Here is Vinney, he is 3/4 Icelandic and just turned one year on April 22 of this year. He is either gaiting or galloping in the 4 acre enclosure. Here he wanted to stop and say hello to my friend's Spanish Arabian who is here until her new house closes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=modWD-rcUkk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0QVKdYOwyM What gait(s)? Susan in NV Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/
Re: [IceHorses] Equine Motor Coach
On 6/14/07, Raven [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WOW! I have always wondered why no one ever came up with this idea and now...someone has. I would love one. http://www.equinemotorcoach.com/ Raven Somehow I imagine they are priced beyond my budget!?! Ferne Fedeli
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
Maybe it's a foxrack, Janice! Liz found one of those in Whisper at the last clinic I went to. gosh makes you just wish you could hop on one and be a passenger while they are at liberty doesnt it?? Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
On 6/25/07, Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: here is a pic of Jas (sorrel) and Stonewall (pinto) gaiting at liberty. Altho jas is very pacey under saddle here just seems to me he is getting more trotty and foxtrotty than I realized! and Stonewall, always saddleracking under saddle, here seems to be trotting of some kind i think. Janice -- yipie tie yie yo or is jas doing his stepping pace. Good lord how on earth can anyone pretend to be a gait expert. Its very hard to tell! And then after you get over the feet postion you have to look at pick up and set down! very very hard to do... janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
On 6/25/07, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cause honestly, i would disagree since many if not most walking horses do not do much other natural gait now but rack/tolt spectrum gaits. Hmm, maybe that's regional? I really don't know many racky TWH - just the mare down the road comes to mind. Do you remember her? She was one of the several black TWH at the Liz clinic. The others seemed pretty natural at running walk - certainly more prone to r/w than to rack. Now PACEY TWH - oh yeah, I know plenty of them... well, i wasnt thinking at liberty I was just thinking how on big rides they almost always saddle rack, but they almost always have severe bits, weighted shoes, tie downs, long toes... i forgot the topic was at liberty... Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Farm life
On 6/23/07 7:16 PM, Robyn Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When my son was 6, we were driving thru town and he mused, Mom, where do people in the suburbs keep their horses? I thought that was really cute and innocent--he thinks that b/c we have horses, then that means that everyone does! So I wanted to ask: how did you grow up? Did you grow up w/ horses, or on a farm? What other animals do you have/raise? I was one of those desperately horse-crazy suburban girls who got to ride and take lessons on rare occasions. I didn't get my first horse until I was 28, right after getting married (bless my husband, who understood!). We also have chickens for eggs, rabbits for meat, and the usual assortment of dogs and cats. And a snake. I raise much of our own veggies, and we are planning on putting a greenhouse in once my husband gets the foundation for it built? What about everyone else here? Robyn Robyn: I think we are leading parallel lives except that I started a little later in life with the horses. But I have had a garden all my life even though the one in Evanston was small. Once the big new house here in KY is done, a greenhouse will be attached. As it is now, I am feeding the construction workers pretty well with lettuce, broccoli, cabbage and soon tomatoes. And I am determined to have chickens for eggs and rabbits for meat one day too. I have tried chickens several times. The last time I got six hens and rooster. The rooster cried come and get me all day. And my husband surprised a coyote with him in his mouth. The coyote let go and the rooster shut up for a few days but then felt compelled advertise his presence again. Needless to say, he and the hens were soon gone. We also have foxes. It will be a challenge, but I am determined. A movable hen house might be the answer. Anneliese
Re: [IceHorses] Breed signature gaits
--- Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or is jas doing his stepping pace. It looks to be that Jas is runwalky, and Stonwall looks pretty trotty here. Susan in NV Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/
Re: [IceHorses] OT-my daughter
On 6/24/07 11:03 AM, Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/24/07, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No attachment came through for me...or was that the joke...? I'm never quite sure with Janice! try again?? it was no joke! Janice Janice: I cannot open the file or I should say my computer can't. I says it is corrupted whatever that means. Incidentally, I have a son who has tried match.com and says that all the girls are horrendously overweight. Anneliese
