Re: [IceHorses] Books again...and Parelli
On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:49:44 -0500, you wrote: Oooh, I envy you, just starting out on your Tepper journey! I just finished her latest, The Margarets - fantastic. Have you read it yet, Mic? Yes, ages ago. Wish she would write quicker! ; ) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:37:16 -0500, you wrote: I thought you belonged to the church of Tom Jones. Surely you know that Tom Jones is the Welsh aspect of Zeus? Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
RE: [IceHorses] Angie - one week anniversary
I'm a big believer of giving horses a lot of time to settle in. I think I did too much too soon with Gloi and pushed it too much and it made us lose ground. He needed more time to settle in and learn to trust me. Moving here along with the other changes in his life in the year before he came here meant that he needed more time. I remember talking to Alexandra Kurland at the Equine Affaire about Gloi and she said that she wouldn't be surprised if it took him a full year to really be comfortable. I know it varies from horse to horse, but honestly, I suspect that MOST horses need a full year to REALLY feel at home, although some seem settled enough to be ok in just a few weeks. But, like you, I prefer to take the conservative approach, and let the horses tell us when they are ready to move on. I CAN think of one notable exception where I think riding a horse pretty soon after he arrived was a good thing. Reddi is a little Icelandic gelding we got from Robyn 4-5 years ago. He was adorable (though gait-challenged) when we rode him there, and bought him even though we'd intended only to buy a couple of mares. When he arrived with the three mares, he seemed physically fine, but just looked like he expected the Grim Reaper to appear at any moment - he had this suspicious, Eeyore type demeanor, like he expected today to be the day when the meat man came to pick him up, but he was going to take it like a man, always doing his job. He wasn't at all like he was in Canada. Since the mares were all chipper on arrival, I'm pretty sure nothing happened to him in the trailer on the way down. On a hunch, my very low-key, low-pressure trainer/best friend, Shirley, decided to put a saddle on him less than two weeks after he arrived, with no intentions of riding him, just to gauge his reaction to saddling. His reaction was unexpected. He relaxed, almost like he was saying, Oh, ok, I know how to do this, and this isn't bad! Even though it wasn't planned, she hopped up and walked him around the yard - and he was just as great as he was in Canada when we tried him. He was always great about being ridden, almost seeming to take comfort in having a relatively easy job to do that he was comfortable with and could do well. Note though, that Reddi was NOT ridden hard at all while we owned him. He was one of the ones I could comfortably do some little relaxed walk/trot trail rides while I was overcoming the last of my fear and physical issues from my broken back. It took Reddi a full year to really relax here, but he did seem to be quite happy doing a job he knew well in the interim. It certainly does vary a lot from horse to horse. Reddi is the most extreme case I can remember like that...but the other two horses I've had that seemed to take the longest to settle were Trausti and Flekka. They never were problems during their first months here, but they both lost weight, and seemed very reserved (even for Icelandic's) for a while. I doubt that it's coincidence that Reddi is an uncle to both of them... I don't really think that any of the three show any signs of past abuse. I think they were relatively clean slates when they came here - although all three were also pretty much ignored by humans for their first few years. In their case, I think the tendency to be worriers is innate, made worse by lack of early human contact. They are all great horses, but I'd hate for anyone to ever own them and be oblivious to their quiet, stoic natures. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1176 - Release Date: 12/6/2007 11:15 PM
RE: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
Surely you know that Tom Jones is the Welsh aspect of Zeus? Well, I guess I do now, since you and Janice straightened me out... :) Isn't it just hysterical that the subject line hasn't changed throughout this? Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1176 - Release Date: 12/6/2007 11:15 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] last weekend
What exactly is mulled wine? Red wine, warm, mixed with spices like cinnamon, nutmeg, ginger and cloves, with some orange juice, slices of lemon etc. Very nice and warming on a cold day. and several nips from a hip flask full of something disgusting. I won't ask what that was... No point, I have no idea and couldn't tell you anyway. But it did the trick! Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] Kudos from Gaited Horse Magazine for Judy Ryder
Yes! Judy and the support she offers has done more for helping me to play catch up on Icelandics and other gaited horses than any other venue. Judy instructs, opens interesting topics that cause us to think, puts up with a lot of OT (and often entertaining) posts and supports the community as no one us does. Thank you Judy. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Side saddle
Thanks, Pamela. That's very helpful. Our adult daughter uses Suitability patterns. She has made a hunt coat and also breeeches for her growing teenage son. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] last weekend
I've been meaning to ask - one horse in that great video of lots of Icelandics out together made me think of an Arab. Was there a little grey Arab stuck in the back somewhere? Nancy IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Kudos from Gaited Horse Magazine for Judy Ryder
Hi Yes, Ditto Nancy and Pamela - and thanks for bringing it up. The amount of work that Judy does on her lists and website is incredible. The internet has certainly shrunk the world. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] Angie - one week anniversary
He has been so nervous and jumpy that the mares can barely get food or rest because he's just not a very good herd stallion. It made me think about Falki. Maybe he's not 'drunk with power', but just not sure how to be a good leader. There was a little difference in the dynamics between him and Gloi this evening at feeding time. He has been keeping Gloi farther away from the gate and barn when I come down with the buckets. Tonight Gloi was closer and Falki was farther out. I just wish they could talk, so they could tell us more. It helps me imagine - and since I'm of another species, it's only imagining - what it might be like for a horse to change homes to think about how humans handle changes. I think about all the phases people go through during their lives. I remember feeling a little lost and child-like my first few weeks in high school...but by the time most kids are seniors, they are fairly cocky in their routines, at least in many ways - some are VERY cocky. Then the reality of college (or work) hits, and suddenly they aren't big fish in a little pond any more, and the confidence may take a serious nosedive for a while. Even as an adult, I can remember having something new and wonderful happen (maybe an exciting job offer, whatever) and I'd go through a period of giddy confidence, feeling on top of the world - until the first few days of the new job, when I didn't know any one, didn't know what exactly was expected of me... Adult humans know to expect these ups and downs as routine parts of our lives, and we deal with them...but even so, they aren't always pleasant. We're always evolving as we change situations, so why wouldn't horses too? I know horses don't process changes exactly like we do, but you know they have to go through similar ups and downs in their confidence levels as changes occur. Knowing Falki, I have trouble believing he'll ever be anything other than a gentle sweet soul, but you're right, he has no experience with leading a herd. Maybe it's possible that he's had these moments of being drunk with power (a la the first days after an exciting job offer?) but as reality sets in, maybe he's back to being the self-doubting freshman. Who really knows? I just know that their lives are also complicated to them, from their perspectives, no matter how they may seem to us. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1176 - Release Date: 12/6/2007 11:15 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Horse in need
Yes. I have an equine chiropractor with training in other soft tissue treatment work on him. He was so tight the first visit he kicked in pain at first and was like putty in the man's hands when he was finished. I also have an equine rolpher/energy worker seeing him on a routine basis. It may sound crazy but the results indicate progress. That sounds great, and bless you for doing all that for him. It may be coincidence, but I'll mention it anyway: One of the rehab horses I had for a while (the now famous Tivar, or Teev as Janice now calls him) kicked out a couple of times...and he is the one who improved with the Gastrogard. Of course, the problem is that all horses don't react to their pain/issues the same way. I really wish they could talk, so we could KNOW and not have to guess. The other clue that made me think of ulcers with your guy is that you said he'd lost weight when you got him - that's pretty common in horses with ulcers. (But, then, on the other hand, Tivar was in good weight, with a good/huge appetite - nothing about this is easy... and horses can kick for many reasons...) I'm certainly not a vet, nor do I pretend to be, but I've been in situations where I was so depressed, because I couldn't think what to try next for a horse that was suffering. I'm only passing this on to give you something to think about. I could EASILY be way off base here. I was using my Giacomini Dressage saddles when they fit and had a Bob Marshall treeless enduance saddle that a fitter called perfect on him when he tossed me. I use Herm Sprenger snaffle bits with the toy in the middle and Baldur has a Stubben bridle that does fit. I took the caveson off. Those bits and saddles sound good - but I wouldn't pretend to guess without seeing them on him of course. Well, actually I only know of one Giacomini dressage saddle and it's fairly wide - my cousin uses it on his Andalusian. I'm pretty sure it would be too narrow for some of my Icelandic's though, just as a thought. I know my very hard to fit mare, Sina, was fine in my first BMSS - but it was a 14.5 seat. When I outgrew it, and needed a 15 or 15.5, the base of the larger BMSS was too long for her very short back, and it extended onto her loins. Thus, I don't have a BMSS any more, even though I liked them. Does he by any chance have dips or divots behind his shoulders, or any signs of muscle atrophy where a saddle has been? Many people just write that off as the horse having withers but often it's a sign of muscle atrophy from past poor saddle fit.I've heard of the hard pommel of a BMSS jamming into the withers/shoulders of some horses when it slides forward into the divots. Again, I'm just tossing out ideas - your saddles may not be contributing to his behavior. Some horses even have natural, conformational pockets/divots behind their shoulders, so it's not ALWAYS from saddle fit... Just a thought - if you haven't found this information already, here's a link to the Balance Saddles International website's download page. http://www.balanceinternational.com/downloads.asp It's chock full of information about muscle atrophy, behavior problems from poor saddle fit. I took Sina to a saddle-fitting a few years ago with Carol Brett, one of the founders of Balance Saddles, and I was blown away by Carol's knowledge, logic...and lack of sales pitch. She was quite blunt with me (but very nice) that Sina was a saddle fitting nightmare. She told me that she didn't have anything with her that would fit her that day and told me that I'd likely have to go treeless for her, even though Carol isn't particularly a treeless saddle fan. The next month, I rode in a clinic at Robyn's and found the Sensation saddles, and that's pretty much what my husband and I have been using since. They are treeless, but don't have a rigid pommel/cantle like the BMSS and some others. No saddle will work for ALL horses, but we've had awfully good luck with the Sensations - and we've had about 15 riding age Icelandics to use them on. May not be an issue for you, but thought I'd mention it while I was thinking about it. I just toss all of this out, because I think often these horses that have been troubled for a while have a lot of layered, pent-up problems, and I know it's hard to peel through the layers - I have a new problem horse that I'm starting with now. It certainly sounds like you've done a great job - you've certainly started by doing all the things I would have done. It's just when you are trying to break a cycle like your guy is in, every little thing has to be evaluated. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1176 - Release Date: 12/6/2007 11:15 PM
Re: [IceHorses] last weekend
On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:23:42 -0800, you wrote: Good job, Mic!! (on the ride, and on the video, and uploading it!) I didn't take it or upload it, as I said, I was on a horse (and at that particular moment far too nervous to even think about letting go the reins! ; )) It got better - after a swig of vodka, two large glasses of mulled wine and several nips from a hip flask full of something disgusting. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Difference in Training
she says every Icelandic trainer is different in their approach to the horses and to problem solving and training issues. Just like the trainers here differ... While I think that may be true, I think it may not mean the same when the bigger picture is looked at. For instance, from my place, in a 50 mile radius, I would have the choice of many different types of training: all the different natural type training such as John Lyons, Parelli, Clinton Anderson, etc., all the different western style training, all the different dressage, english, racing, team sports, gaited, etc. Say we put the different styles of training on a rainbow scale: access to all the colors (styles of training) of the rainbow can be had in a relatively small geographical area. Natural horsemanship trainers differ in their training; it's not all exactly the same. We could give NH the color of red. Same with dressage, classical dressage, english, etc. We could give dressage the color of purple. Each style / type of training would be a color in the rainbow, which morphs into a different color. The icelandic-style training would be one color, and have variations, going to each side on the color line. Say icelandic-style training was the color green. The variations might bleed a little into blue or yellow, but basically it stays about in the same area and doesn't reach a full rainbow of colors. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] last weekend
It got better - after a swig of vodka, two large glasses of mulled wine What exactly is mulled wine? and several nips from a hip flask full of something disgusting. I won't ask what that was... Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1176 - Release Date: 12/6/2007 11:15 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Kudos from Gaited Horse Magazine for Judy Ryder
Judy instructs, opens interesting topics that cause us to think, puts up with a lot of OT (and often entertaining) posts and supports the community as no one us does. Isn't that just the best? I was trying to explain that to someone recently. It's so nice to be able to chit-chat sometimes, but then also turn the tide and be able to really talk about serious and educational issues too. We owe Judy a lot for hosting and driving this wonderful forum. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1176 - Release Date: 12/6/2007 11:15 PM
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
On Dec 7, 2007 6:46 AM, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't it just hysterical that the subject line hasn't changed throughout this? Yeah, the original topic went down the toilet. :D V
Re: [IceHorses] last weekend
On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 05:01:46 -0800, you wrote: Was there a little grey Arab stuck in the back somewhere? Well spotted!!! Yes, there was, a guy called Kappi who lives next door to a farm full of Icelandics and who used to belong to one of the people who now is thoroughly corrupted and only has Icies. He's a really sweet guy and is one of the few big horses who can keep up with the Icies in walk and will trot or canter happily alongside when we tolt. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
RE: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding / Open Mouths
Hi Judy, When the horse ventroflexes, if too much, he can have kissing spines. That would hurt. Interesting thought. I know lots of non gaited horses with kissing spine but don't actually know of any gaited horses with it.Kissing spine has also become a rather broad diagnosis (the way navicular can be for non-specific foot lameness). There is some thought that many many horses have kissing spine and depending on how they are worked function quite well. The sidepulls may also be too tight, if fitted by the icelander-style method of fitting a noseband... also if the sidepull is fitted normally with room, that room gets taken away with heavy contact, I don't fit my sidepulls tightly and with the jowel strap you don't need to have help from the nosepiece to keep it in place. But there is no question that if a horse has sharp points on their molars then any kind of hackamore or halter can cause discomfort. I would think there is some expectation of being pulled on if the mouth opens but I can't be sure. It is interesting that so many rodeo bucking horses open their mouths - I was trying to think if I have seen it in both saddle bronc and bareback bronc?? They don't all but some certainly do. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] last weekend
Hi Karen, What exactly is mulled wine? Mulled wine is like gluvine _don't know how to spell it - a warm spiced wine often served at après ski or at Christmas. Tastes yummy but you must take care because warming it up seems to hit the blood stream much more quickly. I don't drink much and a glass of Mulled wine last year in England and I was very happy in a giggly sort of way. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
[IceHorses] Quotes
Do not become paralyzed and enchained by the set patterns which have been woven of old. No, build from your own youthful feeling, your own groping thought and your own flowering perception--and help to further that beauty which has grown from the roots of tradition. --Lotte Lehman Tradition is a guide and not a jailer. --W. Somerset Maugham Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] OT - SPAM
An additional question: it's not addressed to me, it's addressed to a gazillion other names and from dozens of different names - perhaps why I can't block it? Nancy, try using the yahoo mail (do you have a yahoo ID already?). Their spam filter is very very good! Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Horse Husbands by Harold Roy Miller
Horse Husbands by Harold Roy Miller To all you horse husbands who have equine-loving wives whose horses are the centers of your darling's daily lives, I sympathize with you men. I know exactly how you feel, because I also have to endure this exasperating ordeal. You probably are the guy who bought the fences and the stalls and the one who built the corrals and put up the horse shed walls. More than likely it was your cash that paid for the horses you both own but women have selective memories about this, a fact that is well known. The minute that you enter their equine-oriented dominion, you instantly become a non-entity without any say or opinion. They will also chastise you severely if you fail to follow orders when it comes to taking care of their precious four-hoofed boarders. They'll tell you how to mount your horse and how to position your feet, the proper way to hold the reins and sit the saddle seat, the way to brush and halter and other things they think you forgot and you'll get a lesson in horse nutrition whether you want it or not. Although it is your chore to feed the horses day and night, to them you are still a rookie and never seem to get it right. They act like you have no common sense and darn near committed a crime if you waver when you feed and don't do it their way every time. It doesn't matter if you are a racetrack jockey or a famous rodeo star, somehow your equine skills never quite measure up to par. They live in their focused world of the horse where women run the show and any male with a laid-back attitude interrupts the natural flow. They expect a guy to cowboy up and, oh, how they can scold if he doesn't care to take a ride or clean stalls in the artic cold. They don't tolerate insubordination; they want to make sure you understand though you may be the king of your castle, in the corrals you're a hired hand. Now a wise man will act like he heard every word his sweetheart has said and not stand there fuming with anger or with a question mark over his head. A smart man won't growl or groan, making her sulky and down-hearted, they'll just give her a kiss and say, Ok honey, then do it the way they started. http://iceryder.net/haroldhorsehusbands.html Please feel free to forward. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
Anybody ever ride a cutting horse? Yes. I use to own one. Lorraine Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
[IceHorses] Pet Toys Could Pose Lead Danger
Pet Toys Could Pose Lead Danger WOW...pretty scary!!! Also in pet food dishes http://tinyurl.com/2an738 IMHO...stay away from anything made in China. Way too scary. Raven Lucy Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] Christmas gift idea
On 07/12/2007, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I mentioned a while back that I got a iPod (with tiny video screen) for my birthday a while back. Oh boy, Kevin got one the other day. He's completely enthralled. He keeps talking about how much he can load on it. I'll have to mention to him that you have some DVD conversion software AND I just told him, and he wants to know what conversion software you bought You two can just talk amongst yourselves... Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Fighting / Icelandic Lullabies
These people were truly nasty. I don't understand that anyone could enjoy reading these sagas, they just glorify all that nastiness. Interesting article: http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_life/?cat_id=16568ew_0_a_id=295450 Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] OT - SPAM
I did try Yahoo mail when I had a dial up account. It was beyond slow. Can I assume on broadband it would be quicker? It should be. I use it and it's great for me. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] OT - SPAM
Thanks. I did try Yahoo mail when I had a dial up account. It was beyond slow. Can I assume on broadband it would be quicker? Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
I had a horse trainer friend who was training a horse, I think for the working cow horse class. Anyway, she needed to rent some calves and asked some of us if we wanted to go in with her. I put a western saddle on my hunter/jumper/dressage horse (an off track Jet Deck grandson). He actually was pretty cowy and it was quite an experience. I can't imagine the kind of balance the rider nneeds to have to ride a real cutting horse. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
i've worked cattle on some fairly cowie horses-but not a high performace show cutting horse. when a good horse gets going-just hang on-it is like nothing you've ever felt. love working cattle on a good horse... Maggie the California cowgirl-i hope Solie likes cows:)
Re: [IceHorses] Christmas gift idea
one, but instead make them in 8G, 80G, and 160G sizes I think. Anyway, I've put probably 8 DVDs on mine, plus about 300 songs - and I've only used about 8G! It's amazing how many times I find that I have a spare 10-30 minutes to pull it out - driving somewhere with my husband on the weekend, waiting in the doctor's office You're kidding?!?!? How great! How much are we talking for the iPod and the conversion software? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Difference in Training
many years, the only thing that has really mattered has been the gaits so the training method has come to concentrate on the gaits, redefining them so that the riders get the highest marks in competition. ie, so they have a clear beat, high action and speed from the horse. That is a very interesting subject. I would wonder why they haven't expanded their knowledge about gaits (accepting all the gaits on the gait spectrum, allowing the fox trotting Icelandics to fox trot, as well as run walk), including understanding more of the basics such as the biomechanics, how conformation relates to gait, natural gait training, and going for more finesse, rather than just the fluff of action and speed. Lately (in the past 50 years or so) Icelandic-style trainers have been cherry picking from lots of different methods, but many are still only really after training methods which will get better gaits. Yes, the cherry-picking is good, but I see a lack of understanding of what they are picking. For instance, the dressage... why are they going straight to rollkur? or applying more mechanical aids, in general not only in regard to gaits, rather than less. How about the shoulder-in at tolt? It can't be done, as we have seen, and biomechanically, there are certain exercises that are for suppleness, which can't be applied to gaits, especially rack / tolt (it actually defeats the purpose and builds in a brace). there are many, many more ordinary people in Iceland who are working hard at other aspects of horsemanship who also deserve recognition, and not to be tarred with that negative Icelandic-style training brush. We need to see them; they need to be willing to show what they are doing. If we don't see it, how do we know what they are doing? An example: for the gait book, one gal who wanted her horse to be spotlighted in the book is having her horse trained at the place of an Icelander. She asked if I would go there to film the horse in gait, and I said yes, sure. The Icelander would not agree to being filmed. Remember the one Icelandic guy who was doing Monty Roberts stuff in a video on the internet? I wrote to him asking why he had a ground person pulling the horse with a lead rope. He couldn't explain what he was doing or why or what it was going to accomplish. If they are doing good stuff, they need to put it out there for review. Interesting that none of them have done so, or will agree to do so. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Difference in Training
of many different types of training: all the different natural type training such as John Lyons, Parelli, Clinton Anderson, etc., all the different western style training, all the different dressage, english, racing, team sports, gaited, etc. Have you gone and watched many of these trainers train? Years ago I wrote an article about choosing a trainer and watching them train was one of the suggestions. Maybe it would be a good idea to send that article to the list. Very good! Yes, I have watched a lot of them train, and chose to keep my horses home to be trained :-). It's interesting to see the different methods and application of the different methods, as well as how the trainer understands what he is doing. I think it's a good thing for everyone to go out and watch trainers, by auditing clinics, watching their DVD's, reading their books, etc. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Christmas gift idea
I think I mentioned a while back that I got a iPod (with tiny video screen) for my birthday a while back. I also got one of the DVD-to-iPod software conversion packages, and converted many of my equestrian DVDs to iPod format. My particular iPod has a 30G capacity - they no longer make that one, but instead make them in 8G, 80G, and 160G sizes I think. Anyway, I've put probably 8 DVDs on mine, plus about 300 songs - and I've only used about 8G! I keep it in my purse, and I've found that I watch/listen to the DVDs more than I do the music. It's amazing how many times I find that I have a spare 10-30 minutes to pull it out - driving somewhere with my husband on the weekend, waiting in the doctor's office, whatever. (A good many of the DVDs are divided into 5-20 minute chapters.) I also listen to the DVDs while I'm driving, and it's amazing how much I get out of listening to DVD's that I've already watched. You can also convert regular DVD movies, I think. Anyway, it's a cool little device that I'm really enjoying - just in case you haven't given Santa your wish list yet. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1176 - Release Date: 12/6/2007 11:15 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
--- Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If any of you have ridden reining horses you will have experienced the most leg quick trigger than I have ever felt on a horse. Robyn Our friend bought very expensive well trained QH reining horses. Sally rode one once, and she is a good rider, but the horse was wy too sensitive for even her. and she likes the very forward goey sensitive Icelandics. She felt liked if she took a big breathe that the horse would have taken off at a gallop. Skye Fire Island Eco-Treks-808-443-6085 Fire Island Professional Farrier Service-640-6080
[IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
So...why is it that I only hear it said within Icelandic circles that the dropped noseband is only for steadying the bit in the horse's mouth? I thought it was so that the bridle would stay on when I fell off ...:) Laura
RE: [IceHorses] Difference in Training
Hi Judy, For instance, from my place, in a 50 mile radius, I would have the choice of many different types of training: all the different natural type training such as John Lyons, Parelli, Clinton Anderson, etc., all the different western style training, all the different dressage, english, racing, team sports, gaited, etc. Have you gone and watched many of these trainers train? Years ago I wrote an article about choosing a trainer and watching them train was one of the suggestions. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com While I think that may be true, I think it may not mean the same when the bigger picture is looked at. Say we put the different styles of training on a rainbow scale: access to all the colors (styles of training) of the rainbow can be had in a relatively small geographical area. Natural horsemanship trainers differ in their training; it's not all exactly the same. We could give NH the color of red. Same with dressage, classical dressage, english, etc. We could give dressage the color of purple. Each style / type of training would be a color in the rainbow, which morphs into a different color. The icelandic-style training would be one color, and have variations, going to each side on the color line. Say icelandic-style training was the color green. The variations might bleed a little into blue or yellow, but basically it stays about in the same area and doesn't reach a full rainbow of colors. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [IceHorses] Animal Flatulence contributes to Global Warming
Forget animal flatulenceI think the group I work for contributes considerably to greenhouse gases. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Animal Flatulence contributes to Global Warming
On 12/6/07 11:55 PM, Skye and Sally ~Fire Island [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote So true. A study was done a few years back in California. They discovered that cows from the dairy and meat industry in Calif. contributed more to global warming than all the cars in the state. Meat and dairy used to be very expensive and fruits and veggies were much cheaper years and years ago. Now most Americans can afford to have meat in every meal, something unheard 50 years ago. We could slow down global warming more if we went back to a more natural diet..close down all the fast un-food un-restaurants... We could also slow global warming very simply if only we humans quit reproducing like rats. Why doesn't anybody ever talk about that? Not a sanitary topic, is it? Anneliese
Re: [IceHorses] Difference in Training
On Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:33:04AM -0800, Judy Ryder wrote: The icelandic-style training would be one color, and have variations, going to each side on the color line. Say icelandic-style training was the color green. The variations might bleed a little into blue or yellow, but basically it stays about in the same area and doesn't reach a full rainbow of colors. i don't think you have enough experience with icelanders to claim this. both the icelanders from which i have been learning tend to fall heavily into the purple. --vicka, who recently watched gudmar shoulder-in at the tolt in clinic, and whose current instructor has been schooling us on lateral work, transitions, and reaching for the bit for months now.
RE: [IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
Now with some western trained horses, like barrel racers etc...well there is a lot of leg contact, a lot of go go go.kick kick kick. The girl I bought Scooter from use to barrel race him. I wonder if that is why he bolts sometimes. Lorraine Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
RE: [IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
Hi Skye I know that of the Icelandics that we have, that were trained in Iceland, or by an Icelandic trainer, that while riding our leg is relaxed, yet we can give cues with our legs, for sidepass and such. We have always used legs on our Icelandics from Iceland but definitely there is a higher level of sensitivity in some of them than others. I think a big part of the problem is that most of the male riders have such long legs, and ride with long stirrups that their calf cannot easily go around the barrel of most Icelandics. We found that we would get the horses used to legs by riding them bareback. Mandy used to ride the horses in from the pasture bareback, she would kind of 'test' them to see how they would be. Now with some western trained horses, like barrel racers etc...well there is a lot of leg contact, a lot of go go go.kick kick kick. I have certainly seen people do this - get on and think they have to kick to get the horse to go forward. The other thing is that many people, especially trainers, ride with spurs because horses are so insensitive from being kicked and not really learning a light leg aid. If any of you have ridden reining horses you will have experienced the most leg quick trigger than I have ever felt on a horse. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
Hi Laura, So...why is it that I only hear it said within Icelandic circles that the dropped noseband is only for steadying the bit in the horse's mouth? That is why WE use them. We don't use browbands or throatlatches on our and so we use dropped noseband BUT they are not tight - our horses can always eat crunchies and carrots very easily. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] Christmas gift idea
You're kidding?!?!? How great! How much are we talking for the iPod and the conversion software? The iPods with video cost about $199-299 at www.apple.com , depending on screen size and memory, and I think the DVD conversion software was about $30. I think Cary got my iPod at Sam's Club for a little less than retail price, and I downloaded the conversion software. Once I figured out this was feasible, I splurged and bought four new Parelli videos - the new Seven Games, the new Fluidity, plus two others. A couple of these videos would really great for people who want an into to Parelli...I can't think of the name of the one I thought particularly good right now. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1176 - Release Date: 12/6/2007 11:15 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Difference in Training
However I was thinking that there is such a big difference between the Icelandic Farmer who breeds a little and trains his own horse for rounding up sheep or for pleasure, vs. the big farms like Feti that breed and train specifically for competition and for evauluations. The difference between those 2 farms is huge. Yes, but still within the scope of icelandic-style training, in my opinion. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Going barefoot means change for horse and rider
Interesting article on barefooting http://www.farmersguardian.com/story.asp?sectioncode=51storycode=14999 Raven Lucy Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
This horse got his breaks from arena work on the trail and I rode him places that would have challenged some other horses, the most memorable for me being over a suspension bridge. He never hesitated. He was a very nice good-minded horse, probably the most teachable and athletic animal I ever trained. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
On Dec 7, 2007 9:03 PM, Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put a western saddle on my hunter/jumper/dressage horse (an off track Jet Deck grandson). I also owned an off the track Jet Deck grandson. He was a hunter jumper that I converted to a trail horse. We did some shows and I taught him to go slow by teaching him western. Great horse that was very sensitive and adventurous. -- Anna Southern Ohio
Re: [IceHorses] Difference in Training
The icelandic-style training would be one color, and have variations, going to each side on the color line. Say icelandic-style training was the color green. The variations might bleed a little into blue or yellow, but basically it stays about in the same area and doesn't reach a full rainbow of colors. Good analogy Judy...and I feel that no one style of training would reach the whole rainbow of colors, which is good, because as we all know some styles just do not fit the rider or horse. However I was thinking that there is such a big difference between the Icelandic Farmer who breeds a little and trains his own horse for rounding up sheep or for pleasure, vs. the big farms like Feti that breed and train specifically for competition and for evauluations. The difference between those 2 farms is huge. And yes they do use similar tack. What Iceland has is a very unique way of training, since they have been so isolated, and no one can import any horse there.doubtful that barrel racing QH 'si s going to take off there like it has in Germany these past few years.. I just see their unique way of doing things as more information to use in my bag of tricks.but really no matter what disipline and way of training, Natural methods are really the key, and I am not convinced that any of these NH trainers have anything really different from the other except for better marketing and good looking people on horseback that people can relate to, or want to relate to. Its interesting as I have people ask me all the time about needing a trainer. My first question is what type of training do you want. What is it you want your horses trained for. People have this weird idea that a trainer is a trainer. Some people want to go to the best trainer, who happens to have a waiting list of over 2 years...but he is the best trainer for QH reining horses, for Furturity horses. Not for trail horses, not dressage...but since he has a good rep, they want their backyard breed horse to go to this guy who would never even consider to take in the horse for training. Every trainer is different, and will handle things differently. What I want is a trainer who does not want to esculate any problems, but want to figure out what the horse needs and try to address the issue and help the horse not to have the worry. I want a happy horse...and any label you look at will not tell you those things weather it is NH, Icelandic, dressage or whatever. Skye Fire Island Eco-Treks-808-443-6085 Fire Island Professional Farrier Service-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
On Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 09:36:36AM -0800, Robyn Hood wrote: Now with some western trained horses, like barrel racers etc...well there is a lot of leg contact, a lot of go go go.kick kick kick. I have certainly seen people do this - get on and think they have to kick to get the horse to go forward. *laughs* i have seen this with several of my western-trained students. stjarni obligingly stands there and waits for something meaningful to occur :) --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Remington at Tejon Ranch 50, Photo #1
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check out this photograph of Remington and me at the Tejon Ranch 50 Mile Endurance Ride the Saturday after Thanksgiving. I went and looked at all the photos because it was such a beautiful area!! Maybe he is becoming immortal. That would be nice! Maybe I will get to meet you and Remington at one of the rides next year. I hope to get my Icelandic, Andi in a couple of LD's next year. I will look for you at the Convention in Reno, as I am only an hour away. If you are bored, maybe you could come out to Fallon and take a short ride with me! Susan in NV Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Disclaimer CAUTION: DO NOT DRIVE WITH HOT COFFEE IN YOUR LAP Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [IceHorses] Difference in Training
On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 08:33:04 -0800, you wrote: The icelandic-style training would be one color, and have variations, going to each side on the color line. It's a good analogy. I think you also have to take into account that in Iceland, there are only Icelandics. so you don't have Warmbloods for dressage, Arabs for endurance, QHs for reining, and all our other vast array of breeds. While any horse can of course do almost any discipline, there are specialist breeds within each discipline who seem to define that discipline. And in Iceland, for many years, the only thing that has really mattered has been the gaits. It's been decades since the Icelandic in Iceland has really been a true working horse, so the training method has come to concentrate on the gaits, redefining them so that the riders get the highest marks in competition. ie, so they have a clear beat, high action and speed from the horse. Lately (in the past 50 years or so) Icelandic-style trainers have been cherry picking from lots of different methods, but many are still only really after training methods which will get better gaits. That said, there are many, many more ordinary people in Iceland who are working hard at other aspects of horsemanship who also deserve recognition, and not to be tarred with that negative Icelandic-style training brush. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
[IceHorses] Kudos from Gaited Horse Magazine for Judy Ryder
We owe Judy a lot for hosting and driving this wonderful forum. Karen Thomas We sure do!! Trish
RE: [IceHorses] Difference in Training
It's a good analogy. I think you also have to take into account that in Iceland, there are only Icelandics. so you don't have Warmbloods for dressage, Arabs for endurance, QHs for reining, and all our other vast array of breeds. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. That's never been a negative in my mind. That said, there are many, many more ordinary people in Iceland who are working hard at other aspects of horsemanship who also deserve recognition, and not to be tarred with that negative Icelandic-style training brush. I can believe that - any time you have a group of more than a few people - no matter what criteria you use to define the group - you can bet on there being some diversity of opinion in the group. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1176 - Release Date: 12/6/2007 11:15 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Kudos from Gaited Horse Magazine for Judy Ryder
We sure do!! Trish She has taught me alot Lorraine Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [IceHorses] Difference in Training
On 07/12/2007, Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lately (in the past 50 years or so) Icelandic-style trainers have been cherry picking from lots of different methods, but many are still only really after training methods which will get better gaits. That said, there are many, many more ordinary people in Iceland who are working hard at other aspects of horsemanship who also deserve recognition, and not to be tarred with that negative Icelandic-style training brush. You know when I look at old pics of people riding Icelandics in Iceland. I saw a simpler form of riding. No nosebands. Fairly simple saddles. Often happy looking horses. I've often thought it was the european influence of riding that may have changed things. Morphed that type of riding into something else entirely. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
Anybody ever ride a cutting horse? Nancy
