[IceHorses] Ground Driving Fjord Pony
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9fLuGEvZhY Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
> BTW...I'm getting too old to beat around the bush. > I'll be 50 within > a few months...and I just don't see an advantage to > being subtle You are a spring chicken. Lorraine Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On 31/01/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Oh Wanda, I have missed your incredible talent for those succinct one-liners! > As usual, you have summed up the situation precisely. That's exactly it. Well...I miss your 'snorts'. Nice to have you back. BTW...I'm getting too old to beat around the bush. I'll be 50 within a few months...and I just don't see an advantage to being subtle (actually I'm not sure I ever was). I can't be bothered to read between the lines anymore. All I know is, I'm extremely thankful for all the great people involved with the Icelandic horse. When ever I get really discouraged I just go out and spend time with my little herd. I'm very very VERY thankful for digital cameras and all the little videos we've seeng lately. All these subtle little gaits that we can view and study and comment on. Great stuff. I can hardly wait for better weather. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
I think Maria treats her tractor rather better than she treats me. Well I don't think I'll be asking Bruce to choose between me and the tractor - unless this continued winter weather REALLY gets to me. We do have a son in Maui. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Fwd: Diary of a Demented Snow Shoveller
On Jan 31, 2008 7:53 PM, Virginia Tupper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > I have relatives in Yorkton, Canora and Regina. (I'm 1/2 Ukrainian on > my mothers side) > V > No wonder I feel a kinship to you! I am 1st generation Ukrainian. My parents immigrated here in the 1950's as indentured servents after being torn from their families during WWII. My mother was 18 and was made to work at an Austrian farm as slave labor. My dad was 'recruited' by the Russian army, shortly after that his younger brother was recruited by the German army. They came here with the clothes on their back and one dollar, neither spoke english. I thank God daily that they had the courage to come here so that my 4 sisters and I had opportunities that we would have never had in the Ukraine. -- Anna Southern Ohio
Re: [IceHorses] Lack of Education
Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Take for instance, the old USIHC guard... they learned > icelandic-style riding and training and fully support it to this day. > They are well educated people, yet what is happening? > They won't open their eyes and see it because it would mean they were wrong? Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner. . : ) The bigger the ego, the harder it is to say, "Oops, boy, was I out in left field about THAT!" -- Renee M. in Michigan
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?- Change to Change
> I don't > think we are going to change the minds of the people deeply embedded > in the world of show Icelandics but I do feel there is good being done > in those people on the periphery that might go either way - depending > on their influence.< I agree Laree.I think the goal is not so much to change the minds of those who have invested and entrenched themselves so completely in the poor horsemanship of the breed, and whose attitudes and minds cannot possibly be changed. Just let those folks die off (so to speak) while concentrating one's efforts on ending the ignorance so there is no one to replace them when they fade away from the scene. -- Renee M. in Michigan
Re: [IceHorses] Changes and Impact
Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >. . . I think we need to start a > whole new branch of horsemanship in Icelandics rather like the flat > shod TWH did, with extra marks for bitless/shoeless etc etc, marks for > natural gait (marks for ALL gaits, walk, trot, canter, gallop, flying > pace and all the varieties of "tolt"), loose reins, clear beat and a > stress-free performance, rather than speed and high action at any > price. Ahh, so you mean actually reward natural gait, good EQUITATION, and partnership with one's horse, acknowledging and celebrating what the horse freely gives his rider rather than what the rider can coerce from him via pressure and stress tactics. What a concept! You know, if you advertised this type of competition as a "fun show for the rest of us" or the "trail riding set"" and offered it as an all-gaited breed show for ALL naturally-gaited, unmanipulated horses, you'd probably attract a good crowd from the gaited, pleasure-riding set here. All gaited breed shows are not unusual here. One of the funnest shows I ever went to was an all-gaited breed, open show. At one time, there were 23 entries in one of our classes (ladies 2-gait) and it was just so neat to look around that ring and see all the varying soft gaits being performed. Let's see, we could fly Mic in from England for the Icelandics and have Liz Graves help with the other breeds . . . . .: ) -- Renee M. in Michigan
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
> >The problem is that to the rest of the world, that type of riding > >paints us all with the same brush...the whole breed becomes tainted. Oh Wanda, I have missed your incredible talent for those succinct one-liners! As usual, you have summed up the situation precisely. That's exactly it. Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >. . . so many horse people don't take them seriously, and second, they are >often not ridden that well, in drop nosebands/shanked bits etc, so genuine >horsemen dismiss them as either wild and uncontrolable, or dismiss the riders >as useless (!). I think the uncontrollable pony image is definitely a valid concern. When these horses are shown in such excessive "control" bits and tack, coupled with the *way* they are shown, it DOES create the picture of the barely trainable, containable mount. Which is just so ludicrious considering how EASY Icelandics are to work with and train.It's like the show world goes out of its way to foster the complete opposite impression of how the breed REALLY is. This does make one wonder if it all doesn't go back to the fact adults are riding ponies, you know? > I don't *think* it's that, more a lack of education of judges > generally, judges coming to expect the "usual" (for today) standard of > riding, and those judges who DO recognise it and mark it down not > being asked back to judge I imagine such brave souls are also ridiculed and treated as if they know nothing too -- what an irony! I think if FEIF really wants to be for the breed, they need to bite the bullet and take a much, much stronger stand against abuses in the show ring. As Wanda said, make REAL penalities for the guilty, not just a little card handed out . . . -- Renee M. in Michigan
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Fwd: Diary of a Demented Snow Shoveller
On 31/01/2008, Virginia Tupper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have relatives in Yorkton, Canora and Regina. (I'm 1/2 Ukrainian on > my mothers side) > V Ah...that explains Yorkton and Canora. I was born and raised in Wynyard, which is an Icelandic/Ukrainian town...and is just down the road from Yorkton and Canora. Wanda who is going to Regina tomorrow...
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Fwd: Diary of a Demented Snow Shoveller
On Jan 31, 2008 5:00 PM, Wanda Lauscher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 31/01/2008, Virginia Tupper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > (My uncle who lives in Saskatchewan sent me this) > > Where in Saskatchewan??? I have relatives in Yorkton, Canora and Regina. (I'm 1/2 Ukrainian on my mothers side) V
Re: [IceHorses] Tivar sweet itch results
On 1/31/08, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > haha funny about your bug allergy but not the pneumonia!! As for Nasi, the way I read it, it says if a horse is in that intermediate range and has no symptoms, he may have developed a tolerance over time. I do know his dam has it, came down with it when she moved to W. Va., and I know she didnt have it in Texas after being imported because I was there in SE season and she was fine. But I am taking no chances, I will blanket at first sign! but the way I read it, some can be around it from birth and have it but develop antigens or whatever they are called and not develop symptoms. I bet if Nasi was born in Calif and lived there til now and then came to me he would have it full blown like Tivar. And I bet if Tivar had been tested as a four year old in Calif it would have shown he had reactions, but there were not many gnats there! And maybe if he had been born here, or texas where gnats are all the time, he may have developed a tolerance. Thats my take on it... But whats weird, is stonewall has shown symptoms, a scabby ventril line at the same time Teev was broken out real bad. and he isnt icelandic and had no other symptoms. he is almost 7 years. janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
[IceHorses] Re: Who is this?
>>>Which is why judges should never have any personal gain in the outcome Of >>>any competition. I'm not saying that's happening, I'm just trying To >>>determine reasons for this issue taking so long to solve.<<< You are right Wanda on the TWH world. I have TWH's and I have seen what they do to them,we are fighting hard to stop it but money talks and the soring goes on. I don't show mine, never intend to and if anyone ever hurt any of my horses they would go away with rock salt in their hineys...lol All my horses stay barefoot. A few miles from me someone has a new type horse that I have never seen before. They are a reddish TN, with cream mane & tails with cream stockings on all 4 legs. They are not tall but real bulky looking. I will have to stop & take some pictures.
RE: [IceHorses] What is FEIF Doing?
What is FEIF doing to stop rough riding? How long have they had the "card" system in place? How are they dealing with the Cavallo issue? Why is more *equipment* being introduced rather than less? They have had that card system in place for many years. If they wanted to stop the rough riding, they could have by now, but they haven't. Nope, in the few years I've been involved with the breed, I've seen an escalation in the bits, nosebands etc, that they allow. Not only are they not stopping it, but they are allowing it to escalate. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.17/1252 - Release Date: 1/30/2008 8:51 PM
[IceHorses] bragging again about Scooter
I am going to bore you about another awesome Scooter ride. He and I are as one. LOL. A bike came from behind real quiet like and he didn't spook at all. It was great. I am jazzed. I almost fell asleep on him. But as usual I forgot my camera. Lucky for you all. Lorraine Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Riding Scooter
> > My favorite John Wayne moment is near the end of > True Grit where he does > his own riding on his own horse and jumps the corral > fence at the end. There is a rental stable in Co. where they filmed that movie. In Gunnison. Beautiful. Lorraine Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [IceHorses] Lack of Education
which started off being a merry, happy beastie who held his head up through spirit, and went quickly because it was fun, but has degenerated into unhappy horses hauled into position and expected to go flat out. What strikes me as really odd is that many of the Icelandic's who hold their heads up naturally to gait (often saddle racking) have noticably short, thick necks. I don't have a problem with that - if it's what they are conformationally built to do, then so be it. But, the oddest thing to me is that lately, the evaluations have been rewarding longer necks. Why should we want to change the necks? Why do we need longer necks in this breed? It's not exactly like gaited horses are suitable for dressage or show jumping, other than maybe at some of the lowest levels. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Tivar sweet itch results
The results make only partial sense as far as culicoides are concerned. What REALLY seems odd to me is that Janice's Nasi - a four-year-old domestic with NO symptoms - had a higher number than any of yours who are known sufferers, except for Itha. Didn't he have something like 56, Janice? I went to the doctor today for a follow-up chest x-ray to see how my pneumonia is progressing. The doctor asked more questions about my breathing and I told him I'd starting having more allergy symptoms over the past few years than ever, and I've always had some allergies. I was surprised that he could draw blood in the office for an "allergy panel", but he did. I'll get my results back in about 10 days. I wonder if I'll get a cullicoides score... :) Karen Thomas, NC
[IceHorses] Re: OT--Fwd: Diary of a Demented Snow Shoveller
> if you live in snow country, your sides will be splitting from laughing > Some parts of the upper peninsula of Michigan are living out the diary this week. We only get residual lake effect snow where I live so it usually isn't as bad. Except for Tuesday night when I was driving in the blizzard:O) -Kristen in upper MI
Re: [IceHorses] What gait - Runa #2
With nanna, I kinda thought RW, but I studied it hard and thought I saw just a barely perceptive swing of the nose from side to side so i said stepping pace I noticed that too, Janice! But, you know what I saw recently in Lee's book that surprised me? Lee (who certainly stared at more gaited horses than I have!) pointed out that a foxtrot can also sometimes have a slightly side-to-side motion with the head nod. I'd always seen the nod with foxtrot as up-and-down, but not as pronounced as with a r/w. There's something else I'm going to have to pay attention to - assuming my doctor says I can ride again someday. These other body language traits are, I guess, merely CLUES about what gait the horse is doing, but I guess none of them are 100% definitive without considering the footfalls. The main thing to me with Nanna (#3) was that the rider was not jostling at all in the saddle, and the horse's feet were touching down pretty darned close to evenly spaced. At that point, I know I can tell some difference if I'm riding the horse, but frankly, when the gait is that close to center range, and the horse is doing it on his/her own with no external mechanical gimmicks, I'd say just enjoy it and count your lucky stars. :) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Who is this? the stumbling issue
I have been told to sit well back and keep a contact. Her owner said that if her head goes down her body will follow. I think the contact jabs her in the mouth. Good questions, Sue. I've been thinking about this more since yesterday. Does it strike anyone else as really bizarre that someone would assume that we (100-200 pound humans, caught off guard ourselves) can actually hold up a stumbling 700-1000 pound beast via reins and a bit? I don't think I'd want anyone to try to prevent ME from falling by grabbing ME by the tongue, or by poking me in the roof of the mouth! And, if we (a human) were in the midst of a stumble, do you really think a creature weighing a mere 10-25% of what we weigh could be of much help in helping us regain our balance? It just doesn't make sense to me. My 235-pound husband can be of some valuable help when guiding my sometimes feeble 120-pound mom, but since I'm close to her size, I can only do so much to help her if she really starts to go down. I can only offer her something to balance against - whereas he can actually hold her up in an emergency. I can't imagine someone significantly smaller than me being of much help at all to her. If the mare has diminished sight, my gut would tell me that she, more than most, would certainly need some freedom to use her head to use her good eye to see where she's going, so she can plan her steps. I don't have any experience with partially blind horses though, but that is my gut feeling. Karen Thomas, NC
[IceHorses] Re: Tivar sweet itch results
[moderator's note: please be sure to delete the previous message in your response to the list, or only quote one or two lines with your response *below* the quoted text. thanks.] > What is the conclusion? We need to learn more about what causes the symptoms. The level of antihistamine does not correspond to the level of reaction. That's true because of 'target organ response' variability. That's why some people get a different reaction ie urticaria (rash) or hayfever or both. No one knows why one organ is targeted in one person and not in another for the same level of antihistamine. The target organ can change throughout life. People often grow out of hayfever to get asthma or arthritis. It is a very complex reaction. Other allergens may be responsible giving a cumulative effect ie 'the last straw that breaks the camels back'. There's a hell of a lot we don't know simply because it's such a long chain of events. Well now I've really bamboozled you all. What does the test really tell you? It's perhaps a baseline for that horse. Unless tests are done we're no closer to unraveling the mystery. I think we're at the baby steps stage with this one. Sue Lincs UK
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Fwd: Diary of a Demented Snow Shoveller
OMG!! Hilarious! Bill had to park at the end of our 800' driveway last night when he got home from work (not the first time this winter), walk through the snow drifts to the house to get the snow blower to cut a path. I have to take the puppies to the vet for health certificates tomorrow he's scheduling work off to be here to make sure I can get out and back in an hour later! I just sent it on to him, I'm sure he'll identify! Cheryl Icelandic Sheepdogs & Icelandic Horses www.sandcreekicelandics.com
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Fwd: Diary of a Demented Snow Shoveller
On Jan 31, 2008 4:00 PM, Wanda Lauscher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Where in Saskatchewan??? I read that as where *is* saskatchewan. ;) Steph -- "Brutality begins where skill ends." "Correctly understood, work at the lunge line is indispensable for rider and horse from the very beginning through the highest levels." Von Niendorff
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Fwd: Diary of a Demented Snow Shoveller
On 31/01/2008, Virginia Tupper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > (My uncle who lives in Saskatchewan sent me this) Where in Saskatchewan??? -- Wanda Saskatchewan Canada
[IceHorses] OT--Fwd: Diary of a Demented Snow Shoveller
(My uncle who lives in Saskatchewan sent me this) if you live in snow country, your sides will be splitting from laughing Diary of a Demented Snow Shoveler December 8 6:00 PM It started to snow. The first snow of the season and the wife and I took our cocktails and sat for hours by the window watching the huge soft flakes drift down from heaven. It looked like a Grandma Moses print. So romantic we felt like newlyweds again. I love snow! December 9 We woke to a beautiful blanket of crystal white snow covering every inch of the landscape. What a fantastic sight! Can there be a more lovely place in the whole world? Moving here was the best idea I've ever had! Shoveled for the first time in years and felt like a boy again. I did both our driveway and the sidewalks. This afternoon the snowplow came along and covered up the sidewalks and closed in the driveway, so I got to shovel again. What a perfect life! December 12 The sun has melted all our lovely snow. Such a disappointment! My neighbor tells me not to worry- we'll definitely have a white Christmas. No snow on Christmas would be awful! Bob says we'll have so much snow by the end of winter, that I'll never want to see snow again. I don't think that's possible. Bob is such a nice man, I'm glad he's our neighbor. December 14 Snow, lovely snow! 8 inches last night. The temperature dropped to -20. The cold makes everything sparkle so. The wind took my breath away, but I warmed up by shoveling the driveway and sidewalks. This is the life! The snowplow came back this afternoon and buried everything again. I didn't realize I would have to do quite this much shoveling, but I'll certainly get back in shape this way. I wish I wouldn't huff and puff so. December 15 20 inches forecast. Sold my van and bought a 4x4 Blazer. Bought snow tires for the wife's car and 2 extra shovels. Stocked the freezer. The wife wants a wood stove in case the electricity goes out. I think that's silly. We aren't in Alaska, after all. December 16 Ice storm this morning. Fell on my a** on the ice in the driveway putting down salt. Hurt like hell. The wife laughed for an hour, which I think was very cruel. December 17 Still way below freezing. Roads are too icy to go anywhere. Electricity was off for 5 hours. I had to pile the blankets on to stay warm. Nothing to do but stare at the wife and try not to irritate her. Guess I should've bought a wood stove, but won't admit it to her. God I hate it when she's right. I can't believe I'm freezing to death in my own living room. December 20 Electricity is back on, but had another 14 inches of the damn stuff last night. More shoveling! Took all day. The d**n snowplow came by twice. Tried to find a neighbor kid to shovel, but they said they're too busy playing hockey. I think they're lying. Called the only hardware store around to see about buying a snow blower and they're out. Might have another shipment in March. I think they're lying. Bob says I have to shovel or the city will have it done and bill me. I think he's lying. December 22 Bob was right about a white Christmas because 13 more inches of the white s**t fell today, and it's so cold, it probably won't melt till August. Took me 45 minutes to get all dressed up to go out to shovel and then I had to piss. By the time I got undressed, pissed and dressed again. I was too tired to shovel. Tried to hire Bob who has a plow on his truck for the rest of the winter, but he says he's too busy. I think the a**hole is lying. December 23 Only 2 inches of snow today. And it warmed up to 0. The wife wanted me to decorate the front of the house this morning. What is she, nuts?!! Why didn't she tell me to do that a month ago? She says she did but I think she's lying. December 24 6 inches - Snow packed so hard by snowplow, I broke the shovel. Thought I was having a heart attack. If I ever catch the son of a b**h who drives that snow plow, I'll drag him through the snow by his b***s and beat him to death with my broken shovel. I know he hides around the corner and waits for me to finish shoveling and then he comes down the street at a 100 miles an hour and throws snow all over where I've just been! Tonight the wife wanted me to sing Christmas carols with her and open our presents, but I was too busy watching for the d**n snowplow. December 25 Merry f***ing Christmas! 20 more inches of the damn slop tonight - Snowed in The idea of shoveling makes my blood boil. God, I hate the snow! Then the snowplow driver came by asking for a donation and I hit him over the head with my shovel. The wife says I have a bad attitude. I think she's a fricking idiot. If I have to watch 'It's A Wonderful Life' one more time, I'm going to stuff her into the microwave. December 26 Still snowed in. Why the hell did I ever move here? It was all HER idea. She's really getting on my nerves. December 27 Temperature dropped to -30 and the pipes froze; plumber came after 14 hours of waiting for him, he only charged me
Re: [IceHorses] Lack of Education
> >mentioned in the Cavallo article. Is that a coincidence? were we ahead of > >the time? was it some type of synergy? or totally independent? > > Probably independent, as they are simply good basic horsemanship that > has been accepted for decades in virtually every other branch of > equestrianism (sigh). Every single point in the Cavallo article has been mentioned, talked about, and discussed on this list for years, so collectively we are head of the game. Let's not short-change ourselves. We talked about ventroflexion ten years ago. Most people did not believe it. It is very hard for people to change, especially when they are vested in something. Take for instance, the old USIHC guard... they learned icelandic-style riding and training and fully support it to this day. They are well educated people, yet what is happening? They can't see the bad riding? They won't open their eyes and see it because it would mean they were wrong? They are afraid to stand up against abuse of the horse? Judy
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:19:56 -0800, you wrote: >generations away from a time when horses were treated a little less well >than tractors are today. I think Maria treats her tractor rather better than she treats me. ; ) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Lack of Education
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:04:29 -0800, you wrote: >mentioned in the Cavallo article. Is that a coincidence? were we ahead of >the time? was it some type of synergy? or totally independent? Probably independent, as they are simply good basic horsemanship that has been accepted for decades in virtually every other branch of equestrianism (sigh). > >So, how did the cycle of poor riding and training get started and how did it >expand to becoming law / culture / correct, in regard to riding the >Icelandic Horse? I think it began because people like to see a proud, fast horse... which started off being a merry, happy beastie who held his head up through spirit, and went quickly because it was fun, but has degenerated into unhappy horses hauled into position and expected to go flat out. But "that's what people want to see" too many rednecks in the audience... we need to educate them too. Maybe that's part of the reason that Icelandics are so slow to catch on in the UK, a country which traditionally has a huge and rather knowledgeable equestrian public. It's interesting that some of the people most interested in Icelandics over here are gypsies (mind you, they do still have gaited horses of their own, so maybe that's merely a coincidence). Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Tivar sweet itch results
Hi Janice and all: Has anyone else participated in the SE study? I participated with 5 horses: 4 imports and 1 domestic as a control. The results make only partial sense as far as culicoides are concerned. Itha: 61 makes sense - intermediate clinical symptoms (rubs mane and tail), sore belly seam Valur: 27 makes no sense at all - he too has intermediate clinical symptoms and also rubs his tail and mane, less sore belly seam than Itha Saga: 49 makes sense, she has mild clinical symptoms Gola: 59 makes no sense, she has very negligible symptoms. She does not rub, has only a tiny spot on her belly line now and then, easy to miss. Vinda: 39 she is the domestic control. She has absolutely no symptoms at at, at yet her histamine level is higher than Valur's. What is the conclusion? We need to learn more about what causes the symptoms. I would like to hear from others who have participated and how the symptoms correlate to the histamine levels found by Bettina Wagner. I am thinking that other insects or even plants may be responsible for horses' reactions. What could it be? Our several garden varieties of flies? I would encourage everyone to participate in the study. This is the only way we'll ever find out what causes the often severe symptoms of SE. Perhaps the study will lead to conclusions that will help us better deal with SE. Anneliese
Re: [IceHorses] New Clicker Book
Anybody from the list going to the Clicker Expo next month, organised by Karen Pryor? Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Article
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:23:16 -0800, you wrote: >Mic, did you get the off-list note that I sent you yesterday? Um, no Can you try sending it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] , please? For some reason my email is a bit dodgy on this address. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
> > I think comes down to a person's perspective on what is abuse, and what is > training and what your goals are with your own animals. Exactly! I think we need to remember that we in the U.S. are a mere two generations away from a time when horses were treated a little less well than tractors are today. My husband's grandfather freighted with teams in Nebraska, wrapped in a buffalo rug to protect himself from blizzards.. In his life, horses were tools and I suspect when he finally got a truck, he breathed a sigh of relief and found a new home for his horses. That we can afford to provide good lives of our horses, free from what we would consider abuse, is a product of both education and affluence. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Lack of Education
>>>a lack of education of judges generally, judges coming to expect the >>>"usual" (for today) standard of riding, and those judges who DO recognise >>>it and mark it down not being asked back to judge as no-one likes getting >>>low marks Mic, we just have to keep educating people. Putting out articles about the mechanics of equipment, how conformation relates to gait, natural gaits, general horsemanship stuff, etc. As the Cavallo article indicated, there is a lack of education in riding and training in Iceland, and I believe there was a comment from Tommy Haag that if bad riding was carded there would only be a couple of riders left in the ring. The articles that are on our website about the brachiocephalicus and high-headedness, were written a LONG time ago, yet their essence is mentioned in the Cavallo article. Is that a coincidence? were we ahead of the time? was it some type of synergy? or totally independent? http://iceryder.net/high-head.html http://iceryder.net/brachio.html So, how did the cycle of poor riding and training get started and how did it expand to becoming law / culture / correct, in regard to riding the Icelandic Horse? Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Changes and Impact
> The saddest thing to me is that it seems the only way to compete these > days is to buy into the horrible training methods that get the horse > moving the way the judges want to see... I think we need to start a > whole new branch of horsemanship in Icelandics rather like the flat > shod TWH did, with extra marks for bitless/shoeless etc etc, marks for > natural gait (marks for ALL gaits, walk, trot, canter, gallop, flying > pace and all the varieties of "tolt"), loose reins, clear beat and a > stress-free performance, rather than speed and high action at any > price. In the US, Icelandics do have a show venue via FOSH shows (http://www.fosh.info/) where the excesses in the Cavallo article would *not* be rewarded (http://www.fosh.info/docs/2007_IJA_Rulebook.pdf). Looks like FOSH is making its way to Europe also (http://www.fosh.info/pr_121907.html). Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/ http://www.dslextreme.com/~napha/JoyOfRiding/index.htm
[IceHorses] New Clicker Book
There is a new clicker training book dedicated to colt starting, by Leslie Pavlich: http://iceryder.net/clickerbookleslie.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] ONLINE Horse Courses
Online Horse Courses SPRING 08 NEW COURSES ADDED!!! http://www.horsecourses.net Natural Hoofcare (NHC101) starts March 18 Progressive Equine Partnership Training (PPT101) starts APRIL 20 Horse Care & Management (HC&M101) starts MARCH 24 Clicker Training for the Horse (CT100) starts FEB 11 th Equine Homeopathy (HOM100) starts Feb. 20th POSSIBLY COMING IN APRIL: Equine Massage! Write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and tell us if you'd like to see this course offered! Some testimonies from students: "I have to tell you that I signed up wanting you to give me fish to eat, and you've taught me how to fish, instead!" --Eve, AZ -- I find that Gwen is an excellent teacher! ... She has her students leaning forward in their chairs. ... I wish all teachers were more like Gwen! --MissyClare, CA -- Gwenyth has such warmth towards the horse whilst maintaining safety of horse and handler. Having her input from years of experience with a variety of horses is invaluable as her understanding and communication skills, (with both horses and people) are such a priviledge to be able to share. I love Gwenyths perspective and explanations. --Paula, UK --- I am SO impressed with Gwen's classes. I have learned so much in such a little time! I want to glean as much as I can, as Gwen is very knowledgeable about her subjects and is so down to earth. THEY WORK!! -- Crystal, OK - "Writing that book was so hard. I can't believe it is finally done. ... I always say Gwenyth Santagate is how I got started. Your wisdom slowed me down and allowed me to get rid of my bad habits. The support I was given by you made the real difference and allowed me to look at the horse differently so I could find a New World that I never knew before. So I Thank You. --Leslie Pavlich, Author of "Clicker Training: Colt Starting the Natural Horse" GO TO: http://www.horsecourses.net for further information.
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?- Change to Change
> While many of us on the list like to take credit for some of the > positive changes (such as they are) I personally don't think any of > the movers and shakers in Icelandics in Europe are the slightest bit > bothered one way or the other by what you lot over there, and us on > our little island, say on the internet about Icelandics. Deep and solid change takes time - as frustrating as it is. I don't think we are going to change the minds of the people deeply embedded in the world of show Icelandics but I do feel there is good being done in those people on the periphery that might go either way - depending on their influence. As these people see "the light" the numbers will start to weigh further and further into the positive side - then we will see more change in a bigger scope - it is so hard to keep plugging, though, when the change happens so slowly and horses are suffering in the meantime.-- Laree in NC Doppa & Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the "S" gang) "Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them." - William Farley
Re: [IceHorses] Article
> Judy, when that article is complete, I think it would be well worth > while sending it to a few of the ordinary horse magazines rather than > just preaching to the converted (though I still want it for STP > please! ; )) Mic, did you get the off-list note that I sent you yesterday? Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Changes and Impact
>The movers and shakers are insignificant. I think our aim is towards those >who are looking and reaching out for newer, better information and wanting >to learn about gaits, conformation, biomechanics, etc. Agreed, and things are far better among the "normal" horse riders, the happy hackers. But they are actually getting WORSE on the competition scene which is very much the public face of Icelandics in Europe (and maybe in the US too?) > >There probably always will be those who value their ego and show ribbons >over the horse, versus those who are into horsemanship. The saddest thing to me is that it seems the only way to compete these days is to buy into the horrible training methods that get the horse moving the way the judges want to see... I think we need to start a whole new branch of horsemanship in Icelandics rather like the flat shod TWH did, with extra marks for bitless/shoeless etc etc, marks for natural gait (marks for ALL gaits, walk, trot, canter, gallop, flying pace and all the varieties of "tolt"), loose reins, clear beat and a stress-free performance, rather than speed and high action at any price. >That is true. However, we have such a small, tiny population of Icelandics >in North America, that it doesn't really take the interest of general horse >magazines. I don't know - I think magazines here might well be interested from the welfare point of view (though it certainly would not be a way of making yourself popular with "mainstream" Icey folk!) ; ) all the best Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:01:38 -0500, you wrote: > While many of us on the list like to take credit for some of the >positive changes (such as they are) I personally don't think any of the >movers and shakers in Icelandics in Europe are the slightest bit bothered >one way or the other by what you lot over there, and us on our little >island, say on the internet about Icelandics. > I think talking about "the movers and shakers" in Iceland >>(a country of only 250,000 humans) is a little funny. Well yes, so do I, which is why I didn't talk about movers and shakers in Iceland, but in Icelandics in Europe, if you read the paragraph you quoted properly. Equine/human population of Europe? Don't know offhand but a hell of a lot more than Charlotte. >name it. I don't buy the argument that "we" on the list are a small entity >in the Icelandic world. You are of course entitled to your opinion. all the best Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
>The problem is that to the rest of the world, that type of riding >paints us all with the same brush...the whole breed becomes tainted. I know, and that is SUCH a shame. It's noticeable over here that when we do displays at non-horsey events (like village fetes, Viking re-enactments etc) we seem to get more interest than when we do stuff at horse shows. I think that's for two reasons - first, they are little hairy ponies ridden by adults, so many horse people don't take them seriously, and second, they are often not ridden that well, in drop nosebands/shanked bits etc, so genuine horsemen dismiss them as either wild and uncontrolable, or dismiss the riders as useless (!). Not saying that's always the case, and not at all displays, but it IS a danger. > >I have absolutely no doubt that it will come to a screeching halt >someday, much like what just happened in the TW world. I hope it's soon. > >I'm told that FEIF is working hard at solving the rough riding issue. Hmmm. Well, FEIF is making all the right noises, but does not actually seem to either recognise OR penalize rough riding and bad horsemanship. Maybe too many >conflict of interest issues between judges and riders or horses??? I >don't know, I'm just guessing. I don't *think* it's that, more a lack of education of judges generally, judges coming to expect the "usual" (for today) standard of riding, and those judges who DO recognise it and mark it down not being asked back to judge as no-one likes getting low marks (plus, of course, at shows with 5 judges the highest and lowest marks are dropped so low marks given for poor riding may not make a difference to the final mark anyway). > >Which is why judges should never have any personal gain in the outcome >of any competition. I'm not saying that's happening, I'm just trying >to determine reasons for this issue taking so long to solve. > They rarely do, I believe. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
RE: [IceHorses] Who is this?
Hi Mic, >>>I know I'm not Robyn, but I think it's becoming more and more polarized between those of us who are "thinking riders" and those who want to win competitions at any price. This is so true. If you look at Klaus Balkenhol and the Xenophen club it is anti Rollkur etc and the distance between the two groups seems to just grow greater. >>>I'm not sure how much effect - if any - we have had, or will ever have - on the dedicated competition people where it seems things just keep getting harder and harder for the horses. : ( In the 70's Linda did not like what she saw in the hunter/jumper; Arab halter etc show world - shock spurs, cattle prods for halter horses; tacks in nosebands; poling and tripping horses over fences; injecting halter horses with various drugs etc etc etc - it can go on and on. We actually considered writing an expose but realized that all that would do is polarize the horse world and probably not have a very big impact on horses. For Linda developing the TTEAM work and showing people a)pain, fear and fear of pain are the primary cause of "misbehaviour" ; b) seeing horses from the horses point of view c) how to improve performance by reducing pain and changing patterns of movement. Taking a less polarizing route, even though it took a long time for people to start to see horses from this perspective, is coming in some areas and not in others. We just did the best we could to 'model' treatment of horses, of all breeds and disciplines, rather than just criticize. And generally people who want to show do so because they like the competition and would like to 'win'. I see many competitive people that just stop showing when they see what happens to so many horses 'to win a ribbon' and work towards making horses more comfortable and having a better relationship with their people. Once of the challenges is that the horse business is a tough one and it is the show world that brings in the high prices for horses (of all breeds and disciplines). It is not easy to make a living in the horse world (unless you a marketing dynamo and then there can be a lose of integrity IMO in an effort to keep meeting the income target - just like any business). So here is one dilemma - the prices of Icelandics from breeders (who can't afford to work at a huge lose) is higher (having people working for you fulltime training and showing people horses, advertising etc). People don't want to pay higher prices so how long can people stay in business. The show world people are willing to pay high prices to have a horse that will win, and at what price is that to the horse. >>While many of us on the list like to take credit for some of the positive changes (such as they are) I personally don't think any of the movers and shakers in Icelandics in Europe are the slightest bit bothered one way or the other by what you lot over there, and us on our little island, say on the internet about Icelandics. I would agree with you Mic, although I am sure others will disagree. I think comes down to a person's perspective on what is abuse, and what is training and what your goals are with your own animals. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] What is FEIF Doing?
> I'm told that FEIF is working hard at solving the rough riding issue. > However, to me, a simple solution would be to disqualify riders and > horses practising that type of ridingperiod. What is FEIF doing to stop rough riding? How long have they had the "card" system in place? How are they dealing with the Cavallo issue? Why is more *equipment* being introduced rather than less? Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Changes and Impact
> While many of us on the list like to take credit for some of the > positive changes (such as they are) I personally don't think any of > the movers and shakers in Icelandics in Europe are the slightest bit > bothered one way or the other by what you lot over there, and us on > our little island, say on the internet about Icelandics. The movers and shakers are insignificant. I think our aim is towards those who are looking and reaching out for newer, better information and wanting to learn about gaits, conformation, biomechanics, etc. Now there is a choice; no one *has* to train or ride their horses icelandic-style any more, just because everyone else does, or that's the only way people are teaching. And we are more educated and able to make better choices. It pleases me to see the changes in European owners that we have effected, such as with Hylling: http://iceryder.net/clickerhylling.html There probably always will be those who value their ego and show ribbons over the horse, versus those who are into horsemanship. The impact of what we say may not be immediately seen, but look at the positive changes over the long run. At least in the US, we are tipping the scales towards horsemanship, by the majority of us not buying into icelandic-style training and riding. That the USIHC is dedicated towards the minority is another story. Watch what your membership dues are supporting. Mic, don't underestimate yourself and what you are saying and what impact it is making on the Icelandic Horse world. Remember that little ripple... and the movement of the butterfly's wing YOU are very important! so is your message! Just keep on keepin' on. (and I can't get that Jambalaya song out of my head :-)) > I really think the answer, if there is one, lies in more "mainstream" > condemnation from the equine world as a whole, particularly in Europe > - like the article in Cavallo which caused a nice little storm in the > Icelandic world over here. That is true. However, we have such a small, tiny population of Icelandics in North America, that it doesn't really take the interest of general horse magazines. > Judy, when that article is complete, I think it would be well worth > while sending it to a few of the ordinary horse magazines rather than > just preaching to the converted (though I still want it for STP > please! ; )) Absolutely. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Who is this?
While many of us on the list like to take credit for some of the positive changes (such as they are) I personally don't think any of the movers and shakers in Icelandics in Europe are the slightest bit bothered one way or the other by what you lot over there, and us on our little island, say on the internet about Icelandics. There are 10,000,000 horses in the USA, so I assume there are a few million horse owners here. I think talking about "the movers and shakers" in Iceland (a country of only 250,000 humans) is a little funny. I usually clarify the area I live in by adding "NC" to Charlotte. Charlotte (city proper only, not counting the surrounding suburbs) has a population of about 650,000 last I heard. Charlotte (where we have to add the "NC" to make sure people know where we are) is over 2x, almost 3x the population of all of Iceland. I don't hear much talk about the "movers and shakers" in Charlotte very often, in any category! I heard recently that there are now 320 members in the USIHC. That would be in TOTAL - in a country with 10,000,000 horses.. I don't believe another country on the face of the earth has nearly as many horses as does the USA. We have tons of equestrian opportunities here - polo, reining, driving, hunters, endurance, western pleasure CTR, jumpers, eventing, dressage, trail trials, racing, steeplechasing We have oodles of qualified trainers just in my local area - western type, NH, dressage, eventers, cutting, you name it. I don't buy the argument that "we" on the list are a small entity in the Icelandic world. Sure, maybe in one way we are a small group - we're certainly a microscopic group in the scope of all US horse owners. But I tend instead to think about the HUGE numbers of people who are walking past this lovely breed. I think the lack of Icelandic ownership...and the lack of membership in the organization is very telling. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.17/1252 - Release Date: 1/30/2008 8:51 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Who is this? / Feldmann
So, how did we get to the point of having trainers strong-arm the Icelandic Horses into gaits? Machismo? After all, the Icelandic show world is still dominated by men. I guess "real men" (said with much sarcasm) don't like to admit that they are riding sweet, gentle, easy-going, easy-to-train ponies... :) Oh N! These are fiery steeds that must be conquered by MEN! (Gag me.) Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.17/1252 - Release Date: 1/30/2008 8:51 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this? / Feldmann
> Walter Jr is the trainer coming to teach the trainers course in the US > which > is why his name has come up on this list recently. He is extremely > demanding of horses and IMO quite hard on them, >>>horses that had to be trained via strong-armed tactics This is really sad for the breed. My gosh, compare Nanna's natural gait video to the videos of these professional or certified trainers. So, how did we get to the point of having trainers strong-arm the Icelandic Horses into gaits? Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On 31/01/2008, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm not sure how much effect - if any - we have had, or will ever have > - on the dedicated competition people where it seems things just keep > getting harder and harder for the horses. : ( The problem is that to the rest of the world, that type of riding paints us all with the same brush...the whole breed becomes tainted. I have absolutely no doubt that it will come to a screeching halt someday, much like what just happened in the TW world. I'm told that FEIF is working hard at solving the rough riding issue. However, to me, a simple solution would be to disqualify riders and horses practising that type of ridingperiod. So there must be other reasons for this taking a long time to solve. Maybe too many conflict of interest issues between judges and riders or horses??? I don't know, I'm just guessing. Which is why judges should never have any personal gain in the outcome of any competition. I'm not saying that's happening, I'm just trying to determine reasons for this issue taking so long to solve. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this? / Feldmann
> rather than polite, used to have the reputation for some rather dodgy > shoeing practices on competition horses, developed his own horse breed > sells lots of horses, makes training videos, writes > books, gives lots of courses etc etc etc. Not thought well of > generally on this list due to his teaching, training and riding > methods. Isn't it amazing that he would be brought in by the USIHC to teach here? I mean, use plain old common sense in watching his horses and riders ride, and anyone can see the unnaturalness of it. BTW, from the comments, you can see that people outside of the breed can easily see how rough he is. So... the USIHC supports manufactured gaits? This is supposed to be (and promoted as) a "natural" horse. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Riding Scooter
> I have a feeling that John Wayne didn't do much > groundwork :,) Good one Lorraine! While I don't agree with him in regard to horses, I like this as a philosophy for other areas in my life. My favorite John Wayne moment is near the end of True Grit where he does his own riding on his own horse and jumps the corral fence at the end. It's not a pretty jump and he certainly is not in traditional jumping posture, but he was an old man when he did that. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Riding Scooter
On 1/31/08, Lorraine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I have a feeling that John Wayne didn't do much > groundwork :,) > > Lorraine > hahaha a good one :) I watched a great john wayne movie the other day. something about the rio grand or rio bravo or something. He was an officer in the cavalry and maureen o'hara was his estranged wife. I actually thought he rode very well. He was young and thin in that movie. They put their cavalry saddle blankets OVER the saddle. so you could see all the gold braiding and insignia I bet. It had slots for the stirrups etc. cool. Janice Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
Walter Jr is the trainer coming to teach the trainers course in the US which is why his name has come up on this list recently. He is extremely demanding of horses and IMO quite hard on them, however, I was seen as way to soft so it is all in the eyes of the beholder and what you are willing to do to achieve what you want. To put that in perspective though, Cary and I were considering breeding a few Icelandic's after meeting the lovely horses that Anneliese has at Unicorn Valley. She didn't have any more mares to sell at the time after I bought Sina, so she suggested that we travel to visit Robyn, who would have plenty of horses for us to check out. We did, and Robyn paired Cary and me with their trainer, Christine Schwartz, for the 3-4 days that we were in BC. Had Robyn paired me with someone who trains like what I see in Walter Feldman's videos, I would not currently own 20 Icelandic Horses, no doubt about it. I've sent in so many pictures of my good friend Shirley, who helps me with my horses about once a week, so I think the list knows how gentle and quiet she is with the horses, even those people who've never met her. While we were at the Icelandic Horse Farm, Cary paid Christine a wonderful compliment - he called her "the German Shirley." :) If we'd wanted horses that had to be trained via strong-armed tactics, I wouldn't have traveled across the continent to find more of this wonderful, gentle breed. I'm so happy that the first people I talked about in conjunction with training/breeding Icelandics were Anneliese and Christine. (Coincidentally, both German, and both very gentle and intuitive!) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:23:44 -0600, you wrote: >I think things are changing Robyn. very very slowly, but one by one, >things are changing. Do you feel that way? Or do you feel it is >hopeless. I do sometimes. I know I'm not Robyn, but I think it's becoming more and more polarized between those of us who are "thinking riders" and those who want to win competitions at any price. I'm not sure how much effect - if any - we have had, or will ever have - on the dedicated competition people where it seems things just keep getting harder and harder for the horses. : ( While many of us on the list like to take credit for some of the positive changes (such as they are) I personally don't think any of the movers and shakers in Icelandics in Europe are the slightest bit bothered one way or the other by what you lot over there, and us on our little island, say on the internet about Icelandics. I really think the answer, if there is one, lies in more "mainstream" condemnation from the equine world as a whole, particularly in Europe - like the article in Cavallo which caused a nice little storm in the Icelandic world over here. Judy, when that article is complete, I think it would be well worth while sending it to a few of the ordinary horse magazines rather than just preaching to the converted (though I still want it for STP please! ; )) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
> Walter Jr is the trainer coming to teach the trainers course in the US which > is why his name has come up on this list recently. He is extremely > demanding of horses and IMO quite hard on them, however, I was seen as way > to soft so it is all in the eyes of the beholder and what you are willing to > do to achieve what you want. I think things are changing Robyn. very very slowly, but one by one, things are changing. Do you feel that way? Or do you feel it is hopeless. I do sometimes. Its like teaching rocket science to chimps, hard to explain something if they dont even see a problem! People who say being nice to a horse is an extreme that creates a spoiled monster. At a large boarding facility where I was once, there were like 200 horses there. The main trainer person used to tell everyone they shouldnt give their horses treats, it caused horses to start biting. I was treating my horses like crazy. During my time there many many horses had biting incidents, but my horses never ever bite. Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
> German Icehorse trainer and guru, son of Walter > Feldmann senior, been > there, done that, won every icehorse competition > there is in Europe Thanks Mic Lorraine Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Riding Scooter
> > > Courage is being scared to deathand saddling up > anyway. Actually I > don't agree really. Courage is being scared but not > to death If > i'm that scared I won't get on I would do groundwork > until I'm sure I have a feeling that John Wayne didn't do much groundwork :,) Lorraine Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Riding Scooter
> zone for me and the horse. It's not always easy to recognise the > boundaries. I find myself creeping back to my comfort zone a lot and > theres no energy there. It's a bit like approach and retreat. Today I > have piles. Don't laugh but I wondered why rising trot was awful > yesterday. I'm staying in my comfort zone if I can find it AHA well now I've heard it all. piles. and i thought i was bad admitting to the world I had worms once. Janice-- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
RE: [IceHorses] Who is this?
Hi Lorraine, >>>Another dumb question. Who is Walter? Walter Feldman, Jr is a German trainer and breeder of Icelandic horses. He and his father Walter Feldman Sr (deceased) also developed the Aigedenberger (sp is wrong) - a cross of Peruvian and Icelandic. I met Walter Jr in 1976 on the Great American Horse Race when he was one of the riders. Walter Feldman Sr was one of the early importers and breeders of Icelandic horses into Germany. Walter Jr is the trainer coming to teach the trainers course in the US which is why his name has come up on this list recently. He is extremely demanding of horses and IMO quite hard on them, however, I was seen as way to soft so it is all in the eyes of the beholder and what you are willing to do to achieve what you want. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 07:40:04 -0800, you wrote: > Another dumb question. Who is Walter? German Icehorse trainer and guru, son of Walter Feldmann senior, been there, done that, won every icehorse competition there is in Europe including several World Championships. Renowned for being outspoken rather than polite, used to have the reputation for some rather dodgy shoeing practices on competition horses, developed his own horse breed (the Aegidienberger, 3/8 Peruvian Paso, 5/8 Icelandic or vice versa, can't remember), sells lots of horses, makes training videos, writes books, gives lots of courses etc etc etc. Not thought well of generally on this list due to his teaching, training and riding methods. hth! Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] What gait - Runa #2
On 1/29/08, Bia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >I would say canter...I'm almost always wrong on these pictures > >though... > >Bia > > Not this time. She was indeed cantering. > > > Hey! I think I'm getting a tiny bit better at the What Gait? Game > Bia > haha good for you!! I get better at some but still, i dont know why the heck I cant tell a rw!! What should I be looking for exactly! With nanna, I kinda thought RW, but I studied it hard and thought I saw just a barely perceptive swing of the nose from side to side so i said stepping pace Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] Horses "settling in"
> > I have had Scooter over a year, and we are just now > starting to really bond. I think he likes me. :) I will have had Hunter three years in May. He's 12 years old and I don't know his history. I suspect he had lots of moves. He was an anxious, reactive, edgy, frightened horse. For weeks after I got him home, I went around muttering "I have made a HUGE mistake." I felt that buying him had made me responsible to him, so I just kept consistantly working with him. And working with him. And working with him. And trying to learn to like him. He's a very nice riding horse now, 400 times better on the ground and every now and then I get the very real pleasure of seeing his eyes soften and his body relax when he sees me. Somehow there is more joy in that for me than if he had been an easier horse. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
You should be very proud of Nanna! I would be. And I love Bekka. Is that a RW?? She has a little Nasi snip :) so watch OUT. Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
>>> I think we could possibly have Icelandic Fox Trotters and Icelandic >>> Walkers. I not only think it's possible, I think we DO have them - lots of them. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that we probably have a lot more horses who prefer either foxtrot or running walk (or both) than we have natural single-foot-support rackers. I don't think we have very many natural single-foot-tolters at all in this breed - ironic that it's supposed to the be breed's signature gait. I'm not complaining either - not by a long shot! Running walk and foxtrot are wonderful gaits, great for trail/pleasure horses. I DO see a notable number of natural saddle-rackers, some step-pacers, and I see a moderate number who are genuinely multi-gaited, having virtually the full gait spectrum in their repertoire. Karen Thomas, NC
[IceHorses] Re: Who is this? the stumbling issue
>>>I generally just grab some mane, to stay on, and let the horse work it out. My instincts tell me that trying to stay steady myself is probably the best thing I could do for them. I'm not sure that taking up contact is going to help them? I have wondered about this as my Corrie does stumble once or twice. She is blind in one eye and a bit lame in one hind. I lead her over really bad footing. It's not fair to have my weight too. She wears knee boots as we have some flints in the soil. She is better the more forward moving she is but one stumble and she's apprehensive again. I have been told to sit well back and keep a contact. Her owner said that if her head goes down her body will follow. I think the contact jabs her in the mouth. She does stumble being led in the paddock and once we both did. Sandy soil on top of clay is bad when wet. Having said that she is very enthusiastic trotting up hills and cantering on a straight. It will be interesting to see what she goes like in my manege when it is built. Sometimes it takes a bit of courage to ride her. Sue
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
> > Another dumb question. Who is Walter? > > Lorraine - there are no dumb questions. Nancy
[IceHorses] Re: Riding Scooter
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Lorraine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I really have taken > > > John Wayne's advice. > > > > > Once again, what is John Wayne's advice? > > Lorraine > Courage is being scared to deathand saddling up anyway. Actually I don't agree really. Courage is being scared but not to death If i'm that scared I won't get on I would do groundwork until I'm sure that getting on is the next step. I always like to work in the learning zone for me and the horse. It's not always easy to recognise the boundaries. I find myself creeping back to my comfort zone a lot and theres no energy there. It's a bit like approach and retreat. Today I have piles. Don't laugh but I wondered why rising trot was awful yesterday. I'm staying in my comfort zone if I can find it AHA Sue
RE: [IceHorses] getting a Icelandic to gait
> > as my horse gets more used to me and the place she > lives in and becomes more relaxed. And the snow also > helps, it's more difficult for her to gait in snow. > I have had Scooter over a year, and we are just now starting to really bond. I think he likes me. :) Lorraine Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
RE: [IceHorses] Who is this?
> > Yes it is Walter. > Another dumb question. Who is Walter? Lorraine Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:02:53 -0500, you wrote: >It looks like Walter Feldman to me, but I'm not sure. I thought that too. At least he's in a nice soft school rather than on the road or something. I would have got off and checked the horse was ok, but then maybe he did after the video ended (the trip is very close to the end, he only takes a few steps and is still recovering). Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Tivar sweet itch results
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:17:13 -0800, you wrote: >Oh my. So first you'd have to sex the little buggers? That's easy - the male is the one on top. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
