Re: [IceHorses] was show trauma now breed. evaluations-long
On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 19:04:50 -0500, you wrote: The way it's evaluated the breed obviously values the long flowy mane and tail with heavy forelock moreso than the puffy bushy mane and tail why?? Appearance only? A horse with lots of mane and tail and feather is easier to sell. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] My Spiritual Journey with Horses
On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 20:18:27 -0500, you wrote: i myself frequently hold a come to jesus meeting with stonewall. As opposed to a Go to Jesus meeting which involves a shotgun too? ; ) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] More FIZO breeding rules musings
On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 22:19:30 -0400, you wrote: And why should the neck, withers and shoulders get 10%, compared to a grand total of 6% for legs and back? This is why I no longer care to travel to see for myself...there's just too much I can see wrong by reading the rules. You know, I completely agree with you on the mad weighting of breeding scores. But - and here's where we disagree (thank goodness, what is life coming too?? ; )) Complaining about the way breeding evaluations work here on this list is not going to change things in the wider Icelandic world - simply because the people who *can* change things are not even aware we're here, and certainly don't see a problem themselves. Most of them don't bother with this sort of list in the first place and certainly won't trawl through flaxseed/Curly Ray/Donny's Underpants etc etc to read the bits that might interest them. So, while most of us do agree something needs to be done, we are not really actively doing anything! So what can we do? We need to get these opinions out into the wider Icelandic world - the Quarterly and any other Icelandic horse publications, the Breeding leaders in FEIF (their email addresses are all on the FEIF website), Eidfaxi, other lists (particularly some of the ones in Europe, like the German or Swedish ones if anyone here is willing to take the discussion there in German and Swedish), the Board of FEIF (again, email addresses on the website) and so on. If we can get people to actually really LOOK at the FIZO and the inherent contradictions in it (LOVE the sloping shoulder versus high action argument!) rather than blindly accepting it, then we might actually get some positive change happening. Who's up for it?? Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] Back from the trail
On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The obvious solution, of course, is to get one or two more horses to babysit each other when one or two is taken out. : ) Fabulous idea!! We've found that 25 is a good number... ;) :D V
Re: [IceHorses] Back from the trail
On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 10:07 PM, Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After the first hour they were standing looking at me like ok, when are we going home. Oh my goodness. That was quite an adjustment, but I bet they're very happy now. V
Re: [IceHorses] Back from the trail
On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 10:38 PM, Anna Hopkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good job Alex! Snappy walk is perfectly acceptable. Yep, I think so too. I would like her to try bitless soon, Gat tosses her head occasionally and I'm not sure if it's because of Alex's hands or if it's the bit, or if it's just Gat saying 'I don't want to'. V
[IceHorses] Sickle hocks
No one here had said sickle hocks are a good thing, but I was looking for a Thoroughbred to bring along and re-sell (in the days when I used to actually sell horses) and a friend said she had seen a lovely TB mare over in Eastern Oregon at a disbersal sale. The owner had been ill and had two big high dessert pens of nearly untouched mares and colts. She said she was a nice mare, other than that she had sickle hocks . She felt that sometimes that wasn't a bad thing in a dressage horse because it made it easy for them to get their hind legs under them. I went over and bought this six year old brown mare. She was just barely halter broke, but had a wonderful mind. Everything went well with her and she learned quickly and was probably about as good as we all hoped she would be. I sold her to a young woman from California who took her to some sort of evaluation for dressage horses. I can't spell it, sounds like kurring. She was judged the best dressage prospect, based on her conformation, of any horse on the grounds that day and sold for four times what I'd got for her. She went into someone's broodmare band to produce warmbloods. She was quite sickle-hocked. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] More FIZO breeding rules musings
I can ask the quarterly for an article but I am too ignorant towrite it and they might just ask someone who is in the inner circle to write it. someone who sees no need for change. janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] was show trauma now breed. evaluations-long
is that a joke or is sellability a criteria of judging? I think phil should come back I am still dazzled by an actual man being able to spell or maybe robyn that cheater edits him! janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] FIZO breeding (conformation) rules
how do you know donny wasn't brushing curls up to take him for a ride and those are his short florida icelandic jodhpurs. next you know they will become a trend and we will see gudmar in them. if icould get donny on nyquil I could maybe ask him to see if curly would let him sit on him and take a pic. my gosh I could make americas funniest home videos grand prize winner! janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] My Spiritual Journey with Horses
cultural barrier explanation... mic. in the south tent evangelists have an altar call. they call it come tojesus. it can get real impassioned and go on for hours for hard cases. so here when you have say a huge confrontation with your neighbor you say well I had to have a come tojesus meeting with him but he finally saw the light which is a funny visual because these alter calls sometimes involve a lot of head grabbing of people on their knees abd smiting of demons etc. stonewall happens to believe them great happy fun. but when I do eventually lose all temper with him and go berserk he does have q near instantaneousbcome to jesus janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] was show trauma now breed. evaluations-long
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:13:13 -0500, you wrote: is that a joke or is sellability a criteria of judging? Not a joke - not sure it's actually stated that it's a criteria, but I guess having sellability as part of your breed aim isn't a bad thing in and of itself. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] My Spiritual Journey with Horses
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:31:20 -0500, you wrote: near instantaneousbcome to jesus thanks Janice! we don't have those in Wales, it's more a case of Meet the Druids Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] was evaluations-long now mane texture
I lost track of this thread, but are you still talking abour manes tails as criteria? Tosca (1/4 Peruvian Paso) has the bush woman mane and forelock. Yrsa, purebred Icelandic, has a silkier mane and tail, still a profuse forelock. I know there are more important functional attributes a horse buyer would consider, but if all else were equal, for the type of riding I do, I would prefer the less bushy mane. Tosca is working hard, climbing up and down mountain trails. She would cool faster and be more comfortable if she didn't have five lbs of thick mane springing off the side of her neck. What do you all do where it is hot? I have tried braiding it, but it takes forever and the little rubber bands fall out in a day. Clippers are not an option. She'd look like a brown Fjiord. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] was show trauma now breed. evaluations-long
-Original Message- From: IceHorses@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Janice McDonald I think phil should come back I am still dazzled by an actual man being able to spell or maybe robyn that cheater edits him! janice It is a mechanical thing; I know how to turn on spell-check Phil
Re: [IceHorses] was show trauma now breed. evaluations-long
I think phil should come back I am still dazzled by an actual man being able to spell or maybe robyn that cheater edits him! janice Robyn is in Wyoming doing a clinic. It is all Phil. ann
Re: [IceHorses] was show trauma now breed. evaluations-long
wow.sellability. hmm. would be subject to trend and buyer whim and not quantifiable but again. a nebulous concept on which to judge quality unless it had something to do with swimming icy fjords etc if you wonder why I seem blunt maybe. icant find the comma on my cell phone which I am posting from since my boss banished us from the internet the witch janice
Re: [IceHorses] My Spiritual Journey with Horses
thanks Janice! we don't have those in Wales, it's more a case of Meet the Druids do they grab your head and give you a rough shake and speak in tongues? janice
Re: [IceHorses] Sickle hocks
The owner had been ill and had two big high dessert pens of nearly untouched mares and colts. She said she was a nice mare, other than that she had sickle hocks . She felt that sometimes that wasn't a bad thing in a dressage horse because it made it easy for them to get their hind legs under them. Yeah, I know, some faults aren't necessarily so bad in some disciplines as in others, and remember, my vet told me that our Mac would probably be ok as a light-use trail horse. Back to sickle hocks in dressage horse, I have to comment that they are also a group that tends to have bone-spavin more often that some groups. I guess we get down to the ethics of using a horse whose fault may make it easy for them to do a sport initially, but that may eventually lame them. TWH were bred for a while (and maybe still are) to be sickle hocked for the same reason, to exaggerate that overstriding. But...is that really overstriding? Or is it using a conformation trait to cheat? Whatever, a lot of TWH don't stay sound for long, so I'd hate to use them for role models. I think all of this too complicated for this list though - we have enough of our own ethical dilemmas to sort through, without getting into those of the rest of the equine world. More to the point of Icelandic horses, gaited horses don't generally have serious potential as dressage horses, so I don't think that should color how we look at things in this breed. I don't think sickle hocks or cow hocks get much attention in this breed, and considering this is a breed known for having a high incidence of bone spavin, that worries me. The FEIF just a couple of years ago instituted a rule that stallions have to be x-rayed and proven bone-spavin-free before they are evaluated. They don't lose registration or anything if they aren't clear, but it's noted. I think that's all well and good, but I'd prefer for people to be thinking about the CAUSES of bone-spavin, and the easiest way they can do that is to learn about the conformation and activities that increase its risk. After all, five-year-old horse could x-ray clean, but his conformation could make him come down with it immediately afterwards. If bone spavin weren't common in this breed, I'm not sure I'd keep bringing this up. But, it is, and it rankles me that people tout the system as being so valuable, when manes and tails get as much attention as legs. I've never known a skimpy mane and tail to cause a horse pain. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Re:Home From Gov.Knowles
I know I've shared with you all about carrying a waist pouch with homeopathics rescue remedy, What do you carry in your pouch? -- Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them. - William Farley I ride ponies because heart is not measured in hands. - Steve Edwards
Re: [IceHorses] was evaluations-long now mane texture
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:15:14 -0700, you wrote: What do you all do where it is hot? On the ones that have a really thick mane I cheat. I divide the mane in two, then actually CUT OFF the underneath section with scissors so it's half as thick (DO NOT do this when any horse purists are around they tend to get upset and faint or have heart attacks). The added advantage is you then have a spare mane if the horse ever gets sweet itch. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] was evaluations-long now mane texture
On the ones that have a really thick mane I cheat. I divide the mane in two, then actually CUT OFF the underneath section with scissors so it's half as thick Mic, When you do this and it grows back in, does it make an awful mess or do you just trim it off again? In the old hunter jumper days, when my friends were pulling manes until their hands bled, I used to use a sharp pocket knife dragged from underneath. It didn't do quite such a nice job, but you couldn't tell when the mane was braided. Nancy
[IceHorses] Re: FIZO breeding (conformation) rules
Hi Karen It says that the average height of mares is 136cm (about 13.1- 13.2H) and stallions about 138 cm (about 13.25 or so.) Ok, I believe that. BUT, under breeding GOALS: Size: The official breeding goal gives room for substantial variation in size. A preferred range in height is 135 cm to 145 cm when measured with a stick. So, that tells me that they DO want to increase the height of the horse, since they want to range to start about where the average mare is now. not true, they just don't want to select out the natural variation in the genpool. One of the reasons the horses are getting bigger today is better nutrion during the whole year. Where in earlier days the horses in winter often didn't have enough to eat, they didn't develop their full genetical potential height. If you know a little bit about evolution, you know that not within a few generations the heigh in a whole population can be changed that much regarding the genpool. You know, I love my Icelandic's, and I've adjusted my definition of beauty to match the horses I love...but fine heads...? I've seen some pretty Icelandic heads, but not many that are truly fine, and I don't think that's the breed norm. That's ok, too. there has always been the lighter type with fine heads. Have a look at some of the old Kolkuosi mares f.e. These are of course not heads of Arabs, but beautiful, nice fine heads. I can look up for pictures, if you don't believe it. Under Proportions: The horse should be full of splendour and presence. The legs should be long and the body light and cylindrical in shape with front, middle and hind sections approximately equal. I think I'd reserve the phrases splendor and presence for Saddlebreds, or maybe NSH, or show-type Arabs... I don't think that's what comes to my mind when I see Icelandics. I don't even want a splendid horse. I want a sound, useful horse. if you have not seen an Icelandic with a lot of presence, you haven't seen a real gaedingur so far. I think in your imagination, you only have the picture of the hairy pony in your mind. They can be like this, but they can also be the ones who keeps your mouth open, when they enter a track or you see them in the field. If you look at the older pictures of Icelandic's, you certainly won't see a lot of fine heads or long, very fine necks. not a lot but there have been horses like that, also in earlier days. But when they also did use the horses for pulling and other hard work, there has not been a real selection for any special riding horse conformation. You would certainly agree that a longer neck and enough freedom in the gorge (sorry, can't remember the right term), would help any riding horse to do his job. As I read somewhere recently, beware of people who want to improve the breed. I think that applies to all breeds. I'm only on page 8 of 50, and I'm already thinking: I sure hope we don't improve the Icelandic right out of the breed. you can breed whatever Icelandic you like, as there are a lot of breeders in Iceland who have their own imagination of what would be a perfect horse for them. And if you have a look at the confirmation marks, you can well see, that also heavier built horses get good marks, if the overall package is ok. Bone structure f.e. is still a very important issue and cannon bone size is measured of every evaluated mare and stallion. So it is easily to see, on what bones a horse stands. Jasmin
Re: [IceHorses] was evaluations-long now mane texture
--- Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the ones that have a really thick mane I cheat. I divide the mane in two, then actually CUT OFF the underneath section with scissors so it's half as thick I might have to look at doing that with Andi as he has a really thick, thick, thick mane and forelock. Yesterday, I had his mane in about 5 ponytails, but since we are still working on calmatose, he didn't even break a sweat under his saddle and we worked in the sun for 2 hours! Can you do the same with the forelock and still have it look good? I did bang his tail yesterday - cut off about 3 inches. Susan in NV read my blog to see why I ride my horse in pink: http://desertduty.blogspot.com/
Re: [IceHorses] My Spiritual Journey with Horses
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:27:51 -0500, you wrote: do they grab your head and give you a rough shake and speak in tongues? No they drag you into a stone circle and do worrying things with small gold knives and bits of mistletoe ; ) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] Re: FIZO breeding (conformation) rules
We once had an old cowboy farrier - wonderful guy. He actually self published a book on hoof care and shoeing. He'd worked on some of the big old time Western cattle ranches and he'd spent a lot of time alone with a horse - thinking. One of the things he liked to talk about was breed standards. He would say something like Did you ever read these breed descriptions? They all say something about fine heads, wide set eyes, small ears, straight legs, good feet. Then he'd sort of snort and say, So who would write a breed standard calling for poor feet or crooked legs? His point was that it is all very subjective. What I see as wide-set eyes in an Icelandic, might be close-set eyes in an Arab. Not to suggest that correct conformation is not basically the same goal from breed to breed, some of those descriptive ideals fine heads are pretty much breed specific. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] was evaluations-long now mane texture
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 08:07:21 -0700, you wrote: When you do this and it grows back in, does it make an awful mess or do you just trim it off again? It seems to grow back fine eventually, though it tends to be a bit bristly for a couple of weeks. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
[IceHorses] Enjoy The Little Things
Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things. ~Robert Brault Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Alex and Gat get the mail
ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtOJBKWtaLg Virginia Tupper NB, Canada
Re: [IceHorses] Alex and Gat get the mail
--- Virginia Tupper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtOJBKWtaLg What a great grin! And now she has the WHOLE summer to play with her horse (and mom can play, too!). Does your younger daughter ride? Susan in NV read my blog to see why I ride my horse in pink: http://desertduty.blogspot.com/
Re: [IceHorses] Alex and Gat get the mail
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 1:12 PM, susan cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does your younger daughter ride? My youngest, Taly took a few lunge line lessons last year, and has been taken for lead-line pony rides. I also let her ride Gat in a round pen and in an indoor arena as a passenger (no reins). She really wants to ride and she has her eye on Orri (she's reading the Heartland series and after she reads she goes out to pat Orri). I worry more for her riding than I ever did for Alex because she thinks she can hop on and canter off into the sunset while Alex has always been aware of her abilities. V
Re: [IceHorses] Re: FIZO breeding (conformation) rules
you can breed whatever Icelandic you like, as there are a lot of breeders in Iceland who have their own imagination of what would be a perfect horse for them. And if you have a look at the confirmation marks, you can well see, that also heavier built horses get good marks, if the overall package is ok. Here's what the standard says about proportions: The horse should be full of splendour and presence. The legs should be long and the body light and cylindrical in shape with front, middle and hind sections approximately equal. The highest point at the withers should be higher than the highest point of the croup. It specifically says that the breed should be long legged and light-bodied, And, we know that leg joints (cow-hocks, sickle-hocks, toed-in, toed-out, etc.) aren't weighted very heavily. This specifically says we are to breed a more refined horse, and we shouldn't worry with the legs. I don't like that at all. These horses are supposed to be capable of carrying weight in the saddle. A light-bodied horse with bad legs isn't suitable for that but the math favors a light-bodied horse with a pretty head, mane and tail, with a long neck. Proportions are counted 10%, so a heavy horse would be hard-pressed to compete with a light-bodied horse in overall score. He can't make it up by having correct leg jointss, since that's only weighted 3%. Here are the scoring designations for proportions, which are still somewhat vague, but I have to admit are more specific than most of the categories : 9.5-10: - The horse should be full of splendour and presence. The legs should be long and the body light and cylindrical in shape with front, middle and hind sections approximately equal. The highest point at the withers should be higher than the highest point of the croup. 9.0: - Generally very beautiful. The legs are long and the body light and cylindrical in shape with good height at the withers. Only minor faults in proportions. 8.5: - A beautiful overall appearance. The legs are long and the body light and cylindrical in shape. Mares should not be croup high, and stallions should stand higher at the withers than at the croup. Only minor faults in proportions. 8.0: - A nice looking horse. - Good attributes can cancel out a few faults. 7.5: - Average proportions and harmony. - Good attributes can cancel out a few faults. 7.0: See description for the mark 6.5 and lower, but here the faults are less serious. 6.5 and lower: - The horse is low at the withers and therefore croup high.- The horse is heavy-set; with a deep chest, a heavy body (very round or flat-sided). - The legs are short. - The horse is short and stocky and/or very disproportionate in length, front, middle and hind sections. - The horse is disproportionate in the front and the back sections (width, depth) including the chest being too narrow (collapsed). Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] was evaluations-long now mane texture
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 08:19:20 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: Can you do the same with the forelock and still have it look good? I haven't tried that and would worry about it as the forelock blows up a lot more when you go faster than walk (though maybe you don't! ; )) I would probably stick it in one braid instead. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] Re: FIZO breeding (conformation) rules
not true, they just don't want to select out the natural variation in the genpool. One of the reasons the horses are getting bigger today is better nutrion during the whole year. I believe that much of that starved small genetic potential should be overcome in one or two generations. Unless many Icelandic breeding horses are still getting poor nutrition, I'd think we'd be past that phase by now. I also think that an increase in height in humans (and in horses) probably is/was influenced by human breeding preferences. there has always been the lighter type with fine heads. Have a look at some of the old Kolkuosi mares f.e. These are of course not heads of Arabs, but beautiful, nice fine heads. I can look up for pictures, if you don't believe it. I'm sure there has always been some range of size and characteristics in the breed - there is in every breed. However, I don't believe that making a marginal occurrence into the main focus of the breed is a wise move. Many of you have probably heard of Dr. Phillip Sponenburg, a veterinarian who literally wrote the book on color genetics. Coincidentally, I've found out that he is an active supporter of the Colonial Spanish Mustangs, and the two Banker ponies that I'm getting are CS horses. I read an opinion of his recently on the subject of what traits to breed for, and what to ignore, in the preservation of this strain of mustangs, and the Banker ponies have always chosen their own breeding patterns. I'll see if I can find the post and quote it. Basically, he referred to the statistical bell curve of characteristics that occur in any breed. He pointed out that a few traits that might exist in, say, 10% of the population are neither something to be bred for or against. His reasoning is that they aren't something that will either harm the breed's genotype or become widespread in the breed. I suspect that fine heads in Icelandic's are marginal traits in much that way - it doesn't hurt that they provide some interesting diversity within the breed, but if we breed FOR them, then inevitably something else will be ignored. In computer science logic courses in college, we referred to those traits as don't care traits. I think this breed would be much better off if we'd be content to enjoy some of the random natural range in these don't care traits - traits like colors, manes, tails and head shapes. Karen Thomas, NC
[IceHorses] Great Saddle Fit Video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8581503900867762954 Trish
Re: [IceHorses] Hunter Pace Pictures...and a mule
I rode my first local hunter pace back in May with some friends. Oh, good job, Trish! And thanks for the pictures! How was Starri tacked up? (i.e. type of saddle, bridle, extra equipment, etc.) Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Re: Hunter Pace Pictures...and a mule
How was Starri tacked up? (i.e. type of saddle, bridle, extra equipment, etc.) Judy Hi Judy, Thanks! It was his first trip in a trailer since he was hauled here a year and a half ago and he went like a champ! Can't tell because of the fly mask but I rode him in a halter (Parelli hackamore knockoff), Sensation hybrid saddle, the pad that Kaaren Jordan sells (can't think of the name of it right now) and his Old Mac boots. Oh yes, and treats, of course! Periodically, he would stop and whicker at me for a treat (sliced carrots and apples). But he is not bratty about it. If I ask him to walk on as I didn't click him, he walks on. Alot of riders passed us (a few galloping) but most asked if it was okay to pass and our horses were unconcerned about it. Trish
Re: [IceHorses] new arrival
I should have bought two geldings. It is going to be hard to resist the charm of Icelandic babies. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] yeehaa
What an absolutely heavenly place for horses to live. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] it's good being a horse
They look so very happy. Do you have problems with founder? We are also coastal and the grass is so lush, we have to be very careful. Ann
[IceHorses] Blooming buttercups!
In my newly fenced pasture buttercups are blooming everywhere! I'm sure I read that they're a poisonous plant for horses and there are too many to hand pick. I'm afraid to use pesticides and poison the horses. I picked a few handfuls but there's so many. Could hubby mow and solve the problem? Is it the flower or the whole plant that isn't good? V Virginia Tupper NB, Canada
Re: [IceHorses] Blooming buttercups!
I don't know about buttercups, but the girl who helps us with our kids just moved with her family to a wonderful home her dad build on some acreage. She had the pasture land plowed up and re-planted to make a nice pasture for her horses and something about breaking ground allowed the production of an abundant crop of a poisonous plant. She and her younger brother dug them all out by hand. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Blooming buttercups!
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 5:39 PM, Virginia Tupper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my newly fenced pasture buttercups are blooming everywhere! I'm sure I read that they're a poisonous plant for horses and there are too many to hand pick. I'm afraid to use pesticides and poison the horses. I picked a few handfuls but there's so many. Could hubby mow and solve the problem? Is it the flower or the whole plant that isn't good? V They are poisonous but a horse would have to be starving before they would eat them - they are very bitter tasting. I have seen many a pasture with horses and buttercups and no problems. -- Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them. - William Farley I ride ponies because heart is not measured in hands. - Steve Edwards
Re: [IceHorses] Hunter Pace Pictures...and a mule
cool beans! I love doing hunter paces! Bia
[IceHorses] treeless saddle I am wondering about
http://www.blackforestsaddles.com/ Has anyone heard or tried these? They look alot like the barefoot saddles. Lorraine
[IceHorses] Research project
Dear All, I am a research student currently in Iceland studying the role of the Icelandic horse in Icelandic society. I´m sure many of you have experienced Icelandic hospitality and witnessed the close connections between the people and their horses. I´d be very interested to hear from anyone who would be willing to share their experiences of Iceland or to hear from those who may be able to offer contact details for anyone in the horse industry in Iceland who may be willing to correspond. I´m really looking at the Icelandic horse as a symbol of national identity and pride. Best Regards Heather
Re: [IceHorses] yeehaa
You live in a very beautiful place surrounded by beautiful horses and you have a real gift for capturing all that on film. And it's probably not hot there! Annie
Re: [IceHorses] Derby
I rode racehorses at Glade Valley Farm back in the 70's as a way to put myself through college and support my Icelandic horse habit, (now there's irony for you) and I never thought anything about it. I actually thought I was doing a good thing, riding those horses and showing them kindness. Now I find everything about horse racing repulsive. The industry hasn't changed; I've changed. Annie
Re: [IceHorses] Blooming buttercups!
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: She had the pasture land plowed up and re-planted to make a nice pasture for her horses and something about breaking ground allowed the production of an abundant crop of a poisonous plant. She and her younger brother dug them all out by hand. Now that is bad luck! V
Re: [IceHorses] Blooming buttercups!
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 6:56 PM, Laree Shulman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They are poisonous but a horse would have to be starving before they would eat them - they are very bitter tasting. I have seen many a pasture with horses and buttercups and no problems. I was watching my 2 and they were avoiding the buttercup area. They were probably wondering why I was picking them. V
Re: [IceHorses] it's good being a horse
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some photos of some of our youngsters today. Lovely! V
Re: [IceHorses] Back from the trail
On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We've found that 25 is a good number... ;) Aren't you adopting 2 more, the mustangs? V
RE: [IceHorses] Re: FIZO breeding (conformation) rules
-Original Message- From: IceHorses@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Karen Thomas Proportions are counted 10%, so a heavy horse would be hard-pressed to compete with a light-bodied horse in overall score. He can't make it up by having correct leg jointss, since that's only weighted 3%. -- You conveniently miss that joints are a consideration in the Legs, quality section as well. It seems you would like to totally do away with evaluations. Would this not make matters worse? Would that not lead to people breeding with less consideration as to the quality of the horses? There is no denying that the evaluation system could and should be improved. Assuming you do not just want to do away with any evaluation or inspection system, specific suggestions of what to improve or how to make improvements would be more useful than pointing out only what you don't like. Perhaps there is another breed or discipline that has a method in place we can look at for inspiration. Phil
Re: [IceHorses] Re: FIZO breeding (conformation) rules
You conveniently miss that joints are a consideration in the Legs, quality section as well. No, I didn't conveniently miss that, Phil. I mentioned distinctly in several posts that I find it odd that the part of the legs that I consider most important, the JOINTS, are only judged 3%. I also went to the trouble to cut and paste the entire weighting formula, showing how the 40% is distributed. If you missed that in my posts, I'm sorry. Karen Thomas, NC
[IceHorses] Conformation and Icelandic Horses
Assuming you do not just want to do away with any evaluation or inspection system, specific suggestions of what to improve or how to make improvements would be more useful than pointing out only what you don't like. Perhaps there is another breed or discipline that has a method in place we can look at for inspiration. Or, instead of insisting that people have travel across the continent to go see for themselves, we could do what so many other good horsemen do: learn about conformation and soundness from readily available sources: your farriers, your vets, trainers, breeders of other breed horses, etc. I've gotten an education every time I've had a pre-purchase exam done on a horse, and when I've had to have the vet out for a lameness exam. These are good times to ask questions, and many professionals are glad to explain as they go, especially if you are courteous, and if you are seriously interested. I learned much of the basics by volunteering as a 4H leader for about 5 years when we first got horses. I certainly wasn't qualified to lead the club, but I could drive the van full of kids and I used that chance to delve into the classes that the kids learned, as an overgrown student. I've attended judging and conformation classes put on by the NC Ag Department right here in my own county. None of these are geared towards a single breed, because the basics are the same for every breed. There are plenty of books on this topic, and some magazines have a monthly conformation clinic column. (I don't know if Practical Horseman still does, but the Gaited Horse used to, and so did one of the western-oriented magazines.) And these days, there is a tremendous amount of information available for free online. I know we don't need special trainers for these Icelandic horses. Gaits are gaits, no matter what the breed, and fundamentally, basic training is basic training whether the horse is gaited or not. Along the same lines, conformation is conformation, no matter what the breed, no matter what the gaitedness. Sure, there are some conformation traits that will vary somewhat depending on whether the horse is gaited or not. And sure, some traits are more critical for some disciplines than for others, but I've heard that discussed in every conformation/judging class I've ever been to. The basic principles are the same for all horses. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Back from the trail
Aren't you adopting 2 more, the mustangs? V I think that makes 25...right? Jacki will be taking Cali home in a couple of weeks, and Trausti is now with Janice... I need a few more toes. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Re: FIZO breeding (conformation) rules
Perhaps there is another breed or discipline that has a method in place we can look at for inspiration. I had to go back to this statement, Phil. How many of us have talked about all the good information we've learned from Liz Graves at her clinics? She was able to take the basics I've learned about conformation over the years, and take it to the next level for me - explaining how the small differences in good conformation define whether a horse will be three-gaited or gaited, and if he's gaited, what his range of gaits might be. It will take me a while longer to fully digest all Liz has exposed me to - she'll be back here this fall. While I was getting frustrated and bounced around with the lack of answers from the Icelandic sources, I found plenty of inspiration from Liz to keep me going for a while. Liz knows biomechanics, and she knows gaits, and she's very accessible for many people. And, if people can't make it to her clinics, she has a couple of videos available and some articles on her website. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] new arrival
what a cute little man. ;p] Raven Lucy Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
[IceHorses] new arrival
He is absolutely beautiful. Congratulations!! Renee **Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg0005000102)
Re: [IceHorses] Fly sheets?
On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Virginia Tupper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The flies seem to be so annoying that I'm wondering if I should get fly sheets and wondered which fabric was best -- I tried fly sheets several years ago when I just had big horses. I thought they were a help until on a couple of occasions I went out into the pasture to find my gelding dancing around. Those big nasty biting flies were stuck under the sheet and were repeatedly biting him and he couldn't get away from them. I find my icey boys only use the stalls in the run in/barn during the day in the summer. They never go in the stalls no matter how cold, snowy, windy or rainy, but they love to get tucked in the stall to stay out of the heat and away from the flies. I do have a fan in the stalls. It's funny too how they all want to be in the stall together. Only two fit. My mare is rather large, but even so given the option of his own stall or to squeeze in with Cassie and Gloi and Falki tries to go into the stall with two horse. I tend to find any combination of two in one and one in the other stall. I have only been using a fly mask and the Buggzo supplement for my fly strataegy and they just hang out in the stalls when the heat and flies get to them. They are really good about not pooping in the stall during the day. They seem to be going down to the path away from the paddock to poop as there is way less poop than we find in the area when they hang out there in the winter time. -- Anna Southern Ohio
RE: [IceHorses] Re: FIZO breeding (conformation) rules
-Original Message- From: IceHorses@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Karen Thomas You conveniently miss that joints are a consideration in the Legs, quality section as well. No, I didn't conveniently miss that, Phil. I mentioned distinctly in several posts that I find it odd that the part of the legs that I consider most important, the JOINTS, are only judged 3%. I also went to the trouble to cut and paste the entire weighting formula, showing how the 40% is distributed. If you missed that in my posts, I'm sorry. -- I know it does not matter to you but the 3%, as you say, is for the Legs, joints section. There is also a Legs, quality section that is worth 6%. The first notes from that section are for correct limbs and then strong joints. There may not be enough emphasis placed on the limbs for you or a number of list members but you don't have to try and make your point by ignoring what is there. -- *Karen wrote from a second post How many of us have talked about all the good information we've learned from Liz Graves at her clinics? -- It is all well and good that Liz Graves has taught you what to look for. But how does that help the breed as a whole. Liz does not have the capacity to look at all Icelandic breeding stock. So I ask again; Does anyone know of evaluations from other breeds or disciplines that we can look at? Phil
Re: [IceHorses] Alex and Gat get the mail
LOLlove it. Special Delivery. Raven Lucy Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
[IceHorses] Conformation
We once had an old cowboy farrier - wonderful guy. He actually self published a book on hoof care and shoeing. He'd worked on some of the big old time Western cattle ranches and he'd spent a lot of time alone with a horse - thinking. Must have been Bob Rosser. He cooked really good Mexican food. I used to go help him shoe his old quarter horse. He would make the shoes and I would nail them on for him as he couldn't get under a horse anymore. Then we would go up to his cabin he had built and he would cook us up a great meal and tell me about the days on the ranches in Arizona. I have a copy of his book. It is too bad most breeders don't pay attention to feet and legs. My Icey gelding that came from Brenda Devine has good hard feet and a lot of bone. I picked him because he looked like a horse that would stay sound. He is being conditioned to go on a 4 day pack trip in the Marble Mt wilderness in July. And might even make it to an endurance ride one of these days. Karen Parker
