Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Chestnut Icelandic
Other than one little place where he starts to break into a canter, he seems to be doing various kinds of a pace. For a bit I saw the true hard pace Twist does, but the rider is handling it pretty well, so maybe a very fast stepping pace? Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] biting oh man!
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:04 PM, Nancy Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am so sorry for Vickie. I agree with everybody about taking control of the space; BUT I want to warn against kissing the face of all male horses, except the very old and the ones who have demonstrated no aggression for many years. Mares may be candidates, but the bad stories I know about have all been males. I think too... i have had my horses get discombobulated haha. Its like if they are doing two things at once they get their wires switched. and when in a flipped out frenzy all i know is you better get outa the way! janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Vinnie: ba-da-bling...
he is beautiful Karen! what a sweet, intellegent expression! Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Another trip to Sweden
Thanks for sending the photos. What an experience. The pictures are very beautiful. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Chestnut Icelandic
--- On Mon, 7/14/08, Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://gaited-horse.blogspot.com/2008/07/what-gait-chestnut-icelandic-horse.html Looks like a step pace to me - almost a hard pace in spots because she is pushing him for too much speed. Susan in NV read my blog to see why I ride my horse in pink: http://desertduty.blogspot.com/
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Chestnut Icelandic
--- On Mon, 7/14/08, Renee Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't it funny that no matter what these Icelandics do beyond trot (or canter) it gets labelled tolt nearly every time? That's because anything other than tolt is unacceptable. They must have just put up a video that was a bad moment in time...hehehe Susan in NV read my blog to see why I ride my horse in pink: http://desertduty.blogspot.com/
Re: [IceHorses] Bart
i think it is a nice TWH head. A Jaspar head. They need that convex nose to have room for their extra brains. Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Chestnut Icelandic
maybe it is a nice tolt and she just needs a good bra desperately. My Jaspar can do a body slamming teeth crackin hard pace. I dont even allow him to do it because it CANT be that easy on his frame. I either bump him up to a canter or back to a walk, as appropriate. But I once allowed a friend to ride him that had taken years of formal dressage training as a child/teen, always on lesson horses, and she had never ridden a gaited horse. After the ride she told me I believe he has the roughest trot I have ever seen in any horse. haha. I told her he had never trotted in his life... i wonder what jas thought about her posting his hard pace... Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Chestnut Icelandic
when jas does a steppin pace my bosoms dont jump like that, and believe me, my bosoms are so big they would bruise both my chin and my knees if they started jumping around like that. Janice-- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Another trip to Sweden
Like last summer and year before that I went to riding trip in Swedish mountains We only saw one reindeer because they are taken to higher mountains in the spring. Somehow this one had been left behind. Krisse Beautiful photos. Looks like fun riding country - well, minus the bugs, of course! Penny-
Re: [IceHorses] Another trip to Sweden
Great pictures! Thanks for sending them - I had no concept of what riding in Sweden would be like. Karen Thomas, NC
[IceHorses] Natural Tendency
Here's a real inborn, natural tendency, a horse with a lotta cow: http://listen-to-your-horse.blogspot.com/2008/07/horse-has-lotta-cow.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Dressage
Sara Silfverberg has been doing dressage with an Icelandic Horse: http://icehorses.blogspot.com/2008/07/icelandic-horse-dressage.html Some comments from the dressage list: Sara imported him from Iceland and carefully began working with him. As with many other Icelandic bred horses he was scared and sensitive about most things. yes, hats off and all, but honestly, whilst all horses can do, and benefit from, dressage etc etc etc for me the videos make it painfully obvious that breeds are bred for a reason. We bred them to do a job, for which they are best suited. An whilst that wee pony is trying his heart out etc, he just doesn't, to me, present an attractive picture. I don't even think the work looks particularly correct. It looks like pleasant happy pony (all good things) doing circus tricks (not dressage) to me. I am not inspired. Just confused and disappointed why are there no forward, over the back, correct movements? no canter, no forward trot movements, nothing like that. And staying absolutely still and perfect in your equitation is VERY easy in piaffe and walk movements on a tiny pony compared to going forward in trot and canter on a big moving, large WB or other breed. I bet anyone here they could get on this pony and have perfect equitation Let's take a look at the horse/pony first. He doesn't come with any of the pizzazz and breeding background to give him any real advantages for this work. He's not even the average horse. He's a tolting pony. The in-hand work, yes. The under saddle work? I am enthralled by the rider's position but less than enthralled with the results. Does this guy's performance/gaits outshine the international uber-movers? Of course not. Does this guy's training outshine what is generally seen in dressage at all levels and even at many of the top facilities? IMO, Yes! I like it. The work isn't perfect, nor is the horse. What I like is the spirit the work is done in. so quiet and calm, unforced. It's nice to see underdog type horses doing dressage. To not do so much of it that he loses the rhythm. Get in. Get out. Don't go to the point that the horse has is front legs landing long before the hind. Perfect the rhythm in hand. Let the horse get stronger in other work and try again. Rhythm is the foundation of all movements. If the trot is uneven at any point, I think either there is a soundess issue or a serious training problem, i.e. rein lameness or the horse getting wide behind because he's being asked to collect more than he can absorb in his joints at that time. I have said that there is a lot of good there. I love the in-hand work. I'm just not as gaga over the under saddle work as others. Pony or not, rhythm comes first. I'll go to bat for the horse. The little horse at 4 is calm, accepting and responsive. He is at a very submissive stage. The trainer is skilled and tactful. Just because the horse looks happy and quiet in these short clips does not make the work good or correct. The horse is too young. The stress and strain on his joints will not show up right away and the wee horse may clock along for about a year before these methods catch up with him. He will likely face an early end to his career. Galloping young racehorses look calm accepting and responsive, until they break their legs at the finish line. Horses pressured in rollkur look happy and win in the showring, but we may not see the after effects of incorrect and high stress training on the young horse for a few years. A 4 year old is too young for the level of work. Just because his brain is willing and his body is somewhat able does not mean we can see the pressure on the joints that are being hammered. At 4, he can not possibly have the proper muscular development to do this level of GP work. The fact that he is not built or bred for it makes it even worse, because he doesn't even have a normal dressage frame to hang his muscles on. Although the quiet work is a testament to the trainer's skills, pushing him this young says very little about her judgment or her capacity to develop life long riding horses. The photo where he is pedestaling in piaffe, with his smushed neck and gaping mouth is a grotesquerie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mJHCCUUbqk This is trick training, and there is nothing classical about it. I see front feet hitting the ground long before hind feet both in hand and especially under saddle. It's obvious when the video is slowed down. To me, that is an obvious loss of rhythm. Even the baby efforts, I've always been taught that the important part is the 1-2-1-2, etc, not 1-2-3-4 and a half. Again, lots of good here. I'm just not so gaga over it to ignore the obvious. The half steps are landing front feet first, under saddle, in hand, worst in the piaffe pirouette under saddle. This has nothing to do with the gaited horse's way of going. (Another thread in itself. Gaited horses should also land hind foot first for a good four beat gait. Just as in dressage,
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tendency
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a real inborn, natural tendency, a horse with a lotta cow: http://listen-to-your-horse.blogspot.com/2008/07/horse-has-lotta-cow.html Looks like he's having fun! Those white spots at the withers, would that be from the saddle? V
Re: [IceHorses] Another trip to Sweden
How pretty
Re: [IceHorses] Dressage
http://icehorses.blogspot.com/2008/07/icelandic-horse-dressage.html If you look at the video on YouTube, you'll see that the title is First Attempts at Collection. Warning, Will Robinson, Warning! I believe that dressage is a process, an evolution. As Susan C. has mentioned recently, there are a lot of stages to the training tree that have to be in place before collection begins. I had never thought that collection is something that has a first attempt - but that it's something that comes on gradually as the horse gains fitness, maturity and strength.Speaking of maturity, is that horse really just four? Holy moly. I don't believe that they start the Spanish Riding School Lipazanners until they are four, and I don't believe they ever perform before they are at least 10, maybe 12. Some interesting points from those posts: . yes, hats off and all, but honestly, whilst all horses can do, and benefit from, dressage etc etc etc for me the videos make it painfully obvious that breeds are bred for a reason. We bred them to do a job, for which they are best suited. An whilst that wee pony is trying his heart out etc, he just doesn't, to me, present an attractive picture. Amen. Icelandic's are lovely trail ponies. Most can dabble a bit in many activities...why on earth would anyone pick that poor sweet pony to try to do that with...? To not do so much of it that he loses the rhythm. Get in. Get out. Don't go to the point that the horse has is front legs landing long before the hind. Perfect the rhythm in hand. Let the horse get stronger in other work and try gain. I noticed that his fronts were landing well before the rears of the diagonal pairs - making him sorta/kinda/almost foxtrotting the piaffe. I couldn't help but wonder if that's because he's stressed too far, too early...or could it be due to his gaitedness? (Or both...?) Whatever it is, it's not gaiting and it's not correct dressage, so what's the point? It seems just to be for the point of showing off... A 4 year old is too young for the level of work. Just because his brain is willing and his body is somewhat able does not mean we can see the pressure on the joints that are being hammered. At 4, he can not possibly have the proper muscular development to do this level of GP work. The fact that he is not built or bred for it makes it even worse, because he doesn't even have a normal dressage frame to hang his muscles on. Although the quiet work is a testament to the trainer's skills, pushing him this young says very little about her judgment or her capacity to develop life long riding horses. The little guy does seem to have a can-do attitude, and you gotta love him for that. I just wonder why not point that lovely attitude into a direction where he can excel and that won't stress him so much. The half steps are landing front feet first, under saddle, in hand, worst in the piaffe pirouette under saddle. This has nothing to do with the gaited horse's way of going. (Another thread in itself. Gaited horses should also land hind foot first for a good four beat gait. Just as in dressage, front feet landing first denote a horse on the forehand, and an impure gait.) No true, not unless the only gait is tolt, as it seems to be in many tolt-centric circles. In foxtrot, the front of the diagonal pair lands first... I don't know what causes his off-beat trot (stress or natural gait tendency), but I have to wonder, why not pick a three-gaited, built-for-dressage horse if this is what you want to do... Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Bit Sizer/Bit shopping
I bought a bit for Tosca that she and I both really like. It is a pony-sized sweet iron snaffle with a copper roller. I can't remember what size. I can't find the website I bought it on There seems to be a few pony tack sites now: http://www.justforponies.com/ http://www.pamperedponytack.com/ http://www.ponytalestack.com http://www.partyponiesdiscounttack.com/ (pink bridle and bareback pad) and: http://www.chubbypony.com/ Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tendency
--- On Tue, 7/15/08, Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a real inborn, natural tendency, a horse with a lotta cow: http://listen-to-your-horse.blogspot.com/2008/07/horse-has-lotta-cow.html This is AMAZING!!! Susan in NV read my blog to see why I ride my horse in pink: http://desertduty.blogspot.com/
[IceHorses] What Gait / Chestnut Icelandic
Le tolt looks like Le Hard Pace! The ride doesn't look smooth, that's for sure. Trish
Re: [IceHorses] Fat pony
Should I cut back on hay or pasture? She is so beautiful. As you know, I am not an expert on the feeding of ponies. I do, however, have the two Icelandic mares in two different situations and here's what we're doing. Tosca is boarded up the road because I enjoy the facilities and the easy trail access. She is out on irrigated pasture and is holding at an appropriate weight as long as I ride her three days a week. Her rides are pretty hard ones because she's going out with the endurance horses. Even though we don't go as fast as they do, on their shorter days (5 miles) we go as far. Yrsa is at home where we do not use our irrigated pasture for horses. It's planted for hay. She has had access to a very small patch of grass - about the size of a small dressage court. We have just locked her off thatt. She gets 1/2 flake of hay twice a day and that little bit of grass and she is really fat. I think for these two the obvious difference is the amount of exercise each gets. They have the same sire and are about the same size. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Fat pony
Should I cut back on hay or pasture? **IF** I had pasture, here is what I would do: I would put them on pasture ONLY when it was available, and hay in the winter. Use a tape measure to check their weight every week or so. Susan in NV read my blog to see why I ride my horse in pink: http://desertduty.blogspot.com/
[IceHorses] Re: Fat pony
Should I cut back on hay or pasture? V Hay. :o) If you have pasture, you may as well let them eat it. Hay is expensive. -Kristen in MI
Re: [IceHorses] Bit Sizer/Bit shopping
Hi, I was wondering if anyone would comment on the Myler Cradle Bit that Parelli is promoting now? I have a very left-brain extrovert horse and wondered how this bit would work for him? I am currently riding him in a loose ring snaffle with a very loose dropped noseband and would like to try this one and I wondered if anyone has tried this particular bit? It is very expensive on their site but you can find it cheaper elsewhere. Here is the link. http://www.parelli.com/product.faces?catId=42 Thanks, Judi Qualls
Re: [IceHorses] Completely OT - Cure for a bad day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlfKdbWwruY Really neat! Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Fat pony
Should I cut back on hay or pasture? What kind of hay are you feeding? I would probably cut back on both hay and pasture time. I didn't have a chance to respond to your post about feeding several times a day. I feed three times a day; the same quantity as twice a day, but broken down into three meals. Somewhere recently I just read that feeding less feed than normal, spread out more times per day, is equal to feeding two bigger quantity meals. Does that make sense? Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Bit Sizer/Bit shopping
I was wondering if anyone would comment on the Myler Cradle Bit that Parelli is promoting now? I have a very left-brain extrovert horse and wondered how this bit would work for him? I am currently riding him in a loose ring snaffle with a very loose dropped noseband and would like to try this one and I wondered if anyone has tried this particular bit? http://www.parelli.com/product.faces?catId=42 Judi, what's your goal? what are the problem areas? I'll include Parelli's definition of lef-brain extrovert: Description of Horsenality - Left Brain/Extrovert Characteristics of a Left Brained (LB) Extrovert include being mischievous, energetic, willful, disobedient, domineering, and may have a tendency to be mouthy, nip and bite. LB Extroverts are easy to train unless you are boring and repetitive in which case they act up and become unruly. LB horses are not afraid of people, they are self confident, brave, are relatively insensitive, playful, mouthy, exuberant and dominant. At minimum, these horses can be pushy and disobedient, and at worst they are aggressive. Keep in mind, these horses can be dangerous when they don't like or trust people. LB horses need you to become a lot more interesting. They need things to do. They are usually quite playful and are easily bored by riders who are fixated on perfecting a maneuver, and that's what makes them act up. Because they are so confident they are fast learners. Extroverted horses tend to be energetic, excitable and quick and need quick action from their riders and handlers. They need their frantic patterns to be effectively interrupted and their energy to be constructively directed. This makes them calmer and focuses their attention. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Fat pony
Somewhere recently I just read that feeding less feed than normal, spread out more times per day, is equal to feeding two bigger quantity meals. Does that make sense? It not only makes sense, in my experience it is true. I used to buy off track thoroughbreds, always quite thin when they got here. And Hunter was also very thin when I bought him. The most effective and safest way to put weight on a horse is with several small feedings a day. I would even divide their grain up into three servings. After all, thry are a grazing animal. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] Bit Sizer/Bit shopping
Hi Judi I was wondering if anyone would comment on the Myler Cradle Bit that Parelli is promoting now? Personally I find the generalization that they make about what a left brain versus right brain horse would like is incredibly simplistic and sad to put such closed labels on horses. I would imagine the bit would give you a lot of control since it is basically a type of Boucher snaffle which gives pressure to the poll and also pressure on the nose. I don't know the weight of the reins they recommend but to me I think you would want to have some instruction to use it. How is your horse going in the bit you are using? What issues are you having that would make you think you need something else? Robyn AM
Re: [IceHorses] Fat pony
Virginia, I'm not so sure it's a matter of hay versus pasture. Too much of a good thing (in either case) can make a horse gain weight. How about grazing muzzle(s) for Gat and / or Orri to be worn for part of their turn-out time?I like the kind that are for both cribbing and to limit grazing. Those have a metal grid at the bottom with a removable rubber circle that fits over the grid. The rubber circle has a hole in the center about the size of a golfball. With Soley, I take the rubber circle out and leave her with just the metal grid on. This lets her get a fair amount of grass, but seems to slow her down quite a bit. Rocky wears the full set up with the rubber circle in place and only gets the odd blade of grass here and there. The muzzles let them still have access to a larger area to wander, gives them nibbles here and there, but doesn't let them eat as much. It might be just the portion control Gat needs. Soley (also 19 like Gat) slimmed down enough that I have actually been turning her out without the muzzle for a week or so now. However, if her waistline starts to creep back up, on it will go again. Now, I am thinking Eitill needs to wear it for awhile. . . . -- Renee M. in Michigan
[IceHorses] Parelli bit (was Bit Sizer/Bit shopping)
- Original Message - From: Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] . I would imagine the bit would give you a lot of control since it is basically a type of Boucher snaffle which gives pressure to the poll and also pressure on the nose. I don't know the weight of the reins they recommend but to me I think you would want to have some instruction to use it. Thank you Robyn for explaining this set up to me -- the pictures were confusing (to me anyway, I can't make head nor tail of a sewing pattern either). At first glance, however, I thought this bit / set-up looked like something rather medieval. I know a lot of folks like Parelli and seem to have success with the games and methods he prescribes-- and I always think I should see what it's all about -- but gimmicky inventions like this make me shy away. Well, that and the arrogant comments I've read from the Missus about wearing helmets. . .Stupid. Made me think she's already fallen off a few times and landed on her head. Oh well. To each his own. -- Renee M.
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli bit (was Bit Sizer/Bit shopping)
Well, the ever-pleasant Fugly people don't like it, (surprise, surprise, eh?) Here's a thread from March where they are discussing this bit setup: http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/2008/03/do-you-think-parelli-even-knows-big.html -- Renee M.
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli bit (was Bit Sizer/Bit shopping)
Well, the ever-pleasant Fugly people don't like it, (surprise, surprise, eh?) Here's a thread from March where they are discussing this bit setup: I should warn 'yall, they talk more about the horse personalities thing than the bit, but it does get mentioned here and there -- and it's an ungawdly long thread! -- Renee M. in Michigan
Re: [IceHorses] Fat pony
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: She is so beautiful. I think so too! :D V
[IceHorses] Free Dressage E-Book
http://www.adressagemethod.co.uk/ Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Fat pony
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 6:01 PM, djakni1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hay. :o) If you have pasture, you may as well let them eat it. Hay is expensive. I was feeding hay because that is what they were eating at the boarding barn and I wanted to introduce them to the pasture slowly. I've built up to 2 - 3 hours of pasture. I'm just wondering if I kept them on pasture over night if having unlimited access for such a long time would relax them and they would realize it's there and always will be so they could slow down on the desperate eating. V
Re: [IceHorses] Fat pony
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 8:11 PM, Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should I cut back on hay or pasture? What kind of hay are you feeding? I would probably cut back on both hay and pasture time. It looks grassy, more yellow than green, and I think it's left over from last year. Somewhere recently I just read that feeding less feed than normal, spread out more times per day, is equal to feeding two bigger quantity meals. Does that make sense? I've been breaking down and spreading out the feeding too, but looking at my horses they look like I'm feeding double the amount--yet they both act like starving guts! V
Re: [IceHorses] Fat pony
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Renee Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about grazing muzzle(s) for Gat and / or Orri to be worn for part of their turn-out time? I bought one for Gat, it's one of those Best Friends deluxe ones but I've held back using it because I thought a couple hours of grazing didn't seem like a lot to me, especially now that the pasture looks so dry from the hot weather we've been having. V
Re: [IceHorses] Fat pony
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 7:45 PM, susan cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use a tape measure to check their weight every week or so. Good idea, thanks! V
Re: [IceHorses] Fat pony
This is a little video I took of Alex today--she's using a Best Friends bareback pad. http://bcmoney-mobiletv.com/view/537/bareback-saddle-pad/ V
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bart got turn-out time tonight in a very small grassy area we made with corral panels at the front of the barn. We used the Parelli-recommended (and common sense/low pressure) method of taking chairs into the area, and just sitting with him - no pressure, all of us just chillin'. Seems at ease and happy enough! V
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli bit (was Bit Sizer/Bit shopping)
Well, the ever-pleasant Fugly people don't like it, (surprise, surprise, eh?) Here's a thread from March where they are discussing this bit setup:... I should warn 'yall, they talk more about the horse personalities thing than the bit, but it does get mentioned here and there -- and it's an ungawdly long thread! It might be more productive to either 1) ignore the bit totally and stick with a well-known, gentle bit, or no bit, or 2) go straight to the Parelli site and read about the horsenalities directly from the source. I absolutely despise that Fugly site. I'm sure they'd say that every one of our Icelandic's are ugly - too hairy, thick necks, no withers, blah, blah, blah... Those people don't seem to like anything. (FWIW, I don't care for that particular Parelli bit or their saddles, but I learned that on my own by reading their site, not some watered-down negative blog.) Reading about Parelli on the Fugly Site rates right up there with learning dressage from the Icelanders if you ask me...why waste your time on a long thread on that site? Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli bit
For any program, I think a consumer needs to have a certain level of knowledge to be able to judge the program, see what parts they want to use, and what parts they don't want to use. You don't have to buy into every thing in any one program. Things change over the years. If PNH horses are having pinned ears and bothered tails, something is wrong, but is it the program? or the application of the program? Perhaps it has become too competitive and people are rushing into using higher phases and more equipment, rather than working on feel and patience and increasing their knowledge of how to ask softly. Here is Vinur, from over 10 years ago, doing PNH and clicker training. There's no pinned ears or bothered tail: http://goodhorsemanship.blogspot.com/2008/07/judy-and-vinur.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli bit
If PNH horses are having pinned ears and bothered tails, something is wrong, but is it the program? or the application of the program? Or the baggage the horse arrived with? Nancy
[IceHorses] Re: Completely OT - Cure for a bad day
Re: Matt Hardings You Tube Very, very amazing!!! I wish more humans would express their spirit like Matt. What a different place our planet could be!!! Thanks to whoever found this. It's getting filed under my Having A Bad Day Antidote!! Kaaren
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
Seems at ease and happy enough! V On some levels, I think he is, but I have to remind myself that he's just nine weeks from the wild. He's not halter trained, so he can't go into a bigger area until we can catch him and halter him. But, I'm a big believer in take the time it takes so it takes less time. I don't have a particular timetable. I just want all the experiences to be forward, with the fewest setbacks we can manage, and no injuries. I love working with the raw horses, but I'm not foolhardy, and I'm definitely allergic to pain. I was able to rub all over his face today, over his eyes, and around his ears. That was a big step forward. I won't have so much time to work with him until the weekend now though. Poor guy also learned about electric fence today. I hate it when they do it, but they need to respect it, and it's especially important that a stallion not get loose. Sometimes it's just hard to remember that Bart is a stallion. BTW, I took the measuring stick into his stall. I didn't put it all the way next to him - that would have been tempting fate at this point - but he's taller than I thought. He's at least a couple of inches over 13H, probably 13.2. When I saw him at the beach, I thought he'd be 13H maximum. I don't think Vinnie is over 12.2H. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Completely OT - Cure for a bad day
Love that! Thanks! Raven Lucy Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze I ride an Ice Pony because heart is not measured in hands. http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
I don't have a particular timetable. This is the lesson I have struggled with the most. To this day I get in the today we will work on ... mode. I think I may finally have matured enough to scrap the plan when it's obvious that actually it is not the day. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] Bit Sizer/Bit shopping
Hi Robyn, Actually the horse I am riding does very well in the snaffle. He just hates the dropped noseband so I think I will just go to a bridle with a cavesson. It just seemed like the description given with the cradle bridle was a kinder one, but maybe not. I thought giving pressure first on the nose rather than the mouth would be better. I am not a trainer or even someone with alot of knowledge about bits. I was using what I was told to use this horse. We did send him a few years ago for a few months for some training with Gudmar and he actually did a very good job with this horse. Now as far the the description for the left brain extrovert this horse meets a lot of the things they list about them like being mischievous and he is somewhat pushy and I am working on that issue. He is also very lippy and that is also an issue I am trying to work on. Otherwise when you get in the saddle he is very much down to business and is very responsive. This horse did have some things that happened to him before we got him that were not good. He was imported by a man when he was a yearling and then started under saddle when he was four but his owner got sick and died and he left this stallion to his sister and his mother and they were afraid of him and put him in a stall with no turn out time at all and this lasted for an extended period of time. We were told he was in a stall for about a year and when they would feed him they would make him get away from the door with a whip and I am not sure if this has caused his being so lippy. He is a beautiful horse and has a great pedigree. We have had him 5 years and he has been shown several times by Gudmar and has won several classes. He is 5-gaited and is a smoky black. I was just looking for something that he would like but would still give some control and frankly I am not the best with my hands and that is why I thought the cradle bridle would work for that reason. Thanks for your input. I knew I would get some really good feedback from the group. Thanks, Judi Qualls
Re: [IceHorses] Bit Sizer/Bit shopping
Hi Judy, My goal is really to be able to ride this horse and feel like I have some control. He is really quite responsive with the snaffle, but he hates the dropped noseband even though I am keeping it very loose. He is quite lippy and that is one of the things listed in the left brain extrovert horses. He is also very mischievous and sometimes pushy. He is a stallion also and is alot of horse. He drives me nuts on the ground and I am working on that, but after you get in the saddle he is very responsive to the bit and leg aids. I am just not as good with my hands as I need to be and I thought this bit giving pressure first on the nose would be kinder. I would love to show this horse in a tolt class as he does that very naturally and without shoes or weights. Thanks, Judi
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
This is the lesson I have struggled with the most. To this day I get in the today we will work on ... mode. I think I may finally have matured enough to scrap the plan when it's obvious that actually it is not the day. I think it's a good idea to have a plan - but we have to remember that no plan can be rigid. I had to learn that with the first problem horses I had. Sometimes there were days when I was totally at a loss - I didn't know what to do.The irony was that doing nothing sometimes turned out to be the right thing. Sometimes, if you don't know what to do, if you'll just spend the time observing, watching, the horse will give you some signs, and they will lead you if you pay attention. On the opposite end, I was told that Vinnie wasn't really halter-broken and not reliably leadable. I think that was probably correct, but the little guy is just ripe so he was ready to move on and learn. Before the delivery trailer was all the way down my driveway, I'd taken his old halter off and put his new one on. Then I led him around outside for a few minutes. Today, we played with stuff in his paddock. We did friendly game, and started porcupine and driving - every horse needs to have a move away command for safety's sake before you can do anything else. He got it already, so I moved onto playing friendly game with a saddle pad, putting it all over his back. Then I put a kid's beach ball in his paddock and watched him play soccer with it. I didn't have any particular plans for him, and we did way more than I would have ever planned to do. The cool part is that Bart and Vinnie seem to be bonding - they didn't know each other before they got on the trailer to come here. (They were at the same farm, but not too close together.) Bart watched every move (from his adjoining paddock) that Vinnie and I did, and seemed to be quite interested. If I'd made a plan and stuck to it, I probably would have tried more with Bart - and likely have screwed up in the process - but I doubt I would have planned so much with Vinnie. By working with Vinnie where Bart could watch and maybe want to get in on the fun, I suspect I helped Bart along today too - indirectly though, not directly. There's an old Parellism that I can't quite remember, but it's something like, Everyone says 'Don't just stand there, do something', when more often, especially in the beginning, it should be 'Don't just do something, stand there.' I like that one a lot - there's a lot of truth to it. Bart's turn-out time was our 'Don't do something, sit there' time, and I think it was well-spent. We can't make rigid plans for Bart before we get to know him. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Bit Sizer/Bit shopping
My goal is really to be able to ride this horse and feel like I have some control. How do you feel about the thought that control can come from the mind (maybe mind meeting mind) and that a bit may not be the best way to control a horse? I think it's in the training. If you endeavor to teach the horse and he learns, then you have accomplished something that will be with him lifelong. If he goes to a trainer who forces him to behave by mechanical means, he's not learning. Possible he's even gathering physical and mental strength to fight that type of constraint in the future. He is really quite responsive with the snaffle, but he hates the dropped noseband even though I am keeping it very loose. Why use it? Have you read up on dropped nosebands and the mechanics? Also, did you see the recent video about possible problems from nosebands around the under jaw from tooth roots? Maybe he has a problem in that area, or possibly he has suffered in the past from the noseband and it's a memory that he can't shake. I would love to show this horse in a tolt class as he does that very naturally and without shoes or weights. Oh, great! Can you get a video for us? Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] O/T Northern Lights
Here's a link for poor deprived Janice who wants to see northern lights... http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/06/aurora-nature-lights-up-skies.html There are some beautiful images on this site. Wanda -- Thoughts become things...
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
By working with Vinnie where Bart could watch and maybe want to get in on the fun, I suspect I helped Bart along today too - indirectly though, not directly. I was doing obedience with one of my standard poodles years ago and one of our daughters had a wonderful Aussie that was her dog. Hannah watched and watched and watched as I trained the poodle. After this had gone on for weeks, I looked over at her one night and said, Hannah, did you want to try this? She sort of wiggled, so I put the collar on her and she knew the entire basic obedience routine: heel, sit, down, stay, recall. She'd learned it all by watching the other dog. Not sure if that would actually work with horses, but Bart is certainly going to benefit by watching Vinnie be comfortable with handling. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Bit Sizer/Bit shopping
How do you feel about the thought that control can come from the mind (maybe mind meeting mind) and that a bit may not be the best way to control a horse? I am not aiming this comment at anyone anywhere and I know it may be seen as parsing words, but I see the bit or the sidepull or the halter as a means for directing the horse, not controlling him. Let's face it. A 145 lb woman can't control a 600 lb pony. We talk about this sometimes when we are out riding. Surely there was some destiny at work when early man and horses came together. Otherwise we'd be riding buffalo or elk or mountain goats. There's something in the makeup of a horse that causes him to allow us to control or direct him. You can tell we take some sort of long rides. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Bit Sizer/Bit shopping / Control
woman can't control a 600 lb pony. We talk about this sometimes when we are out riding. Surely there was some destiny at work when early man and horses came together. Did you ever read Earth's Children by Jean Auel? I love the way she tells about how Ayla first meets, raises, and ends up riding a horse (bareback and bridleless) and continues riding the mare that way for as long as they are together. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Bit Sizer/Bit shopping / Control
--- On Tue, 7/15/08, Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did you ever read Earth's Children by Jean Auel? I love the way she tells about how Ayla first meets, raises, and ends up riding a horse (bareback and bridleless) and continues riding the mare that way for as long as they are together. I thought that was Clan of the Cavebear series. Susan in NV read my blog to see why I ride my horse in pink: http://desertduty.blogspot.com/
Re: [IceHorses] Jean Auel / Earth's Children
I thought that was Clan of the Cavebear series. That was the first book in the series; she's been working on book #6 for oh, about 10 years :-) Earth's Children Series 1. The Clan of the Cave Bear, 1980 2. The Valley of Horses, 1982 3. The Mammoth Hunters, 1985 4. The Plains of Passage, 1990 5. The Shelters of Stone, 2002 Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
