[IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
Found this formula on a horse site: Measuring a horses cannon bone is used by some in determining the approximate weight a horse can carry. A measurement is taken around the circumference of the foreleg, just below the knee. Add together the weight of the horse plus the rider and tack, and divide this sum by the cannon bone circumference measurement. Then divide that result by two. A number between 75 and 85 is good. If the number is over 85, you probably need a larger horse. Using this method, I measure the circumference of the horses cannon bone and get 7.5 inches. The body weight of the horse is 1,150 pounds and the rider and gear weigh 235 pounds for a total combined weight of 1,350 pounds. Divide 1,350 (total combined weight) by 7.5 (cannon bone) and I get roughly 185. Divide 185 in half and my final resulting number is 93. Using this calculating method, I either need to lighten my gear or get a larger horse to get the number down to around 85. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
On Jan 27, 2008, at 1:14 PM, Judy Ryder wrote: Found this formula on a horse site: Measuring a horses cannon bone is used by some in determining the approximate weight a horse can carry. A measurement is taken around the circumference of the foreleg, just below the knee. Add together the weight of the horse plus the rider and tack, and divide this sum by the cannon bone circumference measurement. Then divide that result by two. A number between 75 and 85 is good. If the number is over 85, you probably need a larger horse. Using this method, I measure the circumference of the horses cannon bone and get 7.5 inches. The body weight of the horse is 1,150 pounds and the rider and gear weigh 235 pounds for a total combined weight of 1,350 pounds. Divide 1,350 (total combined weight) by 7.5 (cannon bone) and I get roughly 185. Divide 185 in half and my final resulting number is 93. Using this calculating method, I either need to lighten my gear or get a larger horse to get the number down to around 85. Or take some weight off the horse. Or get one with better bone (The cannon bone measurement is based on 8 inches per 1000 lbs of lean horse weight.) Larger is not necessarily better. I just did it for my 14 hh Peruvian mare that I rode. She weighed 750 when in condition (body condition score 5); the tack and I weighed between 230 and 250 (at my max weight). And her cannon circumference (mid-bone) was 6.25 inches. Even at me and the tack weighing 250 it calculated out to 80. It got to 76 if I assume my weight and tack was 200 (what it was, same saddle, when *I* was body condition 5, and first started competing.). But the numbers with me and saddle at 200, and the mare gaining 150 lbs (to 900 -- like she did at Body Condition score 7 when pregnant) the number came out to 88. Body condition scoring: (http://shady-acres.com/susan/conditionscore.shtml) Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/
RE: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
Measuring a horses cannon bone is used by some in determining the approximate weight a horse can carry. A measurement is taken around the circumference of the foreleg, just below the knee. Add together the weight of the horse plus the rider and tack, and divide this sum by the cannon bone circumference measurement. Then divide that result by two. A number between 75 and 85 is good. If the number is over 85, you probably need a larger horse. Using this method, I measure the circumference of the horses cannon bone and get 7.5 inches. The body weight of the horse is 1,150 pounds and the rider and gear weigh 235 pounds for a total combined weight of 1,350 pounds. I read that formula several years ago - I think it was once in Gaited Horse magazine...? Anyway I know no formula can be more than a rule of thumb at best, but that one makes more sense than most, since it factors in that the horse has to support his own weight, as well as the weight of the rider and the tack. It surprised me that using that formula, Cary and Skjoni actually fall well within the good range - between 75 and 85, and I think it was in the lower (better) end of the range. (I'd have to look up Skjoni's last weight-tape reading to recalculate.) If you've read Dr. Deb's conformation analysis books, you know that she makes the point that larger horses can be LESS able to carry weight better than smaller, stocky horses. She points out that with the warmbloods and drafts, you don't see a proportionally larger cannon bone, to support their additional weight. Another reason I'd be very wary of a 15+H Icelandic...if I ever see one, that is. :) Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.12/1245 - Release Date: 1/26/2008 3:45 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
In a message dated 1/27/2008 5:28:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Karen, I think my pony is 12.5 maybe a little bigger now. He is stout so I really don't know what he weighs I would think about eight hundred or so pounds. I am 125 lbs and my saddle weighs maybe 18 lbs there about with everything you could add maybe 25 lbs.. What ratio would I be with him? Sylvia **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
--- Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: even if a horse can carry 300 pounds, and even if they could carry it all day without harm, i KNOW most cannot ride balanced at that weight. I only say most because I know if i say all someone will come up with I had my great uncle roscoe who weighed 450 and rode at Tevis three years straight on our Mini marec buttercup, never fails, Janice, I loved this! So perfect of human behavior This thread I am finally getting to.but I am a heavy rider...Judy has met me, and I am not a slight thing, never will beI at this point weigh 250lbsI have been up to 320 lbs in my life, and I will say at 320lbs, it is pretty difficult to get on a horse, I did, but it was Hard. Now, I have owned quite a few Icelandics in the past 5 years, and I have ridden others which I have not owned My new gelding is perfect for a big rider like myself.he has large cannon bones, wide back, short back but not too short.about 13-3 hands give or take I have not officially measured him yetwhen I get on he rests a hind leg, there is no motion downward, He is a tank. We call him Sherman sometimes because of his wonderful attributes(His name is Trausti, sired by a stallion called Svadi in S. Cal) we also have not found anything that spooks him, we are trying. He is at our friends farm right now getting in 30 days of riding, he is also very green, and I wanted professional work done on him before I ventured out on him on the trail. Now there is a mare who I love to ride, she is Smth and fun, but she has a long back, smaller bones and she just is not as hardy.I only ride her on fun short rides, mabye 5 or so miles.she is not ours but is at our farm... I placed my appy because I my weight.I bought Icelandics, and the ones that I have purchased can carry menot all can. Sallys mare used to be ridden by an Icelander who was 6' 7' and weighed 350lbsshe did it, she is short, stocky, big boned and willing to do it...Sally now won't even let me ride her...225 lbs is Sallys weight limit on her nowshe is older, 19 years. The world would be nice if all of us could always qualify our statements, some Icelandics, or many Icelandics can carry 300 lbs.but we do not always do that. Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
RE: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
i've never heard an icelander make such claims. Melnir is one of my smaller Icelandics. He was just five when we got him, so he wasn't even fully physically mature. At the moment, I can't remember what he weight tapes now, but he was less than 700 when we got him. I explained his size to two Icelander trainers not long after we bought him, telling them we might later be looking for a horse suitable to carry Cary, who is 235 pounds. They said no problem, Melnir would have no problem carrying Cary. At five? No way was I going to let anyone so big ride him, and even now at nine, Cary doesn't ride him. I just stared at them and said I don't think so. Cary only rides our larger framed Icelandic horses, and is careful to condition them slowly. He doesn't ride the young ones until they've carried a smaller rider for a while. I think I remember that, at that time, Cary was about 35% of Melnir's weight. I personally like some of the more moderately-framed Icelandics - I feel like Melnir fits me (or maybe I fit him) better than about any horse (ok, pony) that I've ever ridden. But, I'm petite-framed, 5'0 tall, size 5.5-6 shoes, and a 6 wrist, even though I'm chubbier than I should be at 138 pounds. But, for a large man to ride him? Not my pony! Even though Melnir is fully mature now, I have been taking my time to condition him slowly to carry MY weight. It's just the nice thing to do. Karen Thomas, NC
RE: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
That's just one instance; I believe it's been stated by other imported trainers with the amount at 250 lbs. I've noticed that the figure often inflates depending on the size of the sucker (uh, I mean buyer) they are talking to at the moment. When 235-pound Cary was the potential victim, the sellers told us they could easily carry 300 pounds. (Not Robyn, Christine or Anneliese, but the Icelanders.) I actually saw 400 pounds listed once. What kills me is that the show standards (FEIF) are encouraging folks to breed more refined horses, while many sellers are inflating the weight carrying ability of the breed. It simply can't work that way. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
even if a horse can carry 300 pounds, and even if they could carry it all day without harm, i KNOW most cannot ride balanced at that weight. I only say most because I know if i say all someone will come up with I had my great uncle roscoe who weighed 450 and rode at Tevis three years straight on our Mini marec buttercup, never fails, then instead of really talking about whats important, the weight bearing limits of icelandics, it morphs into there was once a man in a village i once passed thru when i was 8 years old who could ride standing in the saddle on his one wooden leg, his name was fred, it was in barcelona, i believe then someone else says I have been to barcelona many times, its lovely there then someone says I had an uncle named FRED! oh my GOSH! then another my uncle named fred had ricketts. Then someone says I have never actually heard any icelander personally say from their own lips that they had any uncles named fred so they must not actually exist altho I have seen on maps there is a country named barcelona so i suspect, altho i am not completely 100% certain since no icelander ever told me themselves, that barcelona could possibly exist in the mean time all over the planet 350-400 people are hefting themselves up onto little icelandic ponies with cranes and forklifts and riding them helter skelter over hill and dale, tolting fiendishly, yee ha! yee ha! slapping crops and throwing their hats in the air. then after several have broken their necks someone comes on here and says icelandics cant carry 300 pound people even if a 300 pound person COULD ride without breaking their neck at the least spook, tho icelanders wanting to sell horses say they can, (and also that icelandics, not one ever, has ever spooked) then someone says that it has to be true if an icelander said it but they personally never heard an icelander say it with their own lips so they doubt any icelander ever said it (how many icelanders do they know, one maybe two?) My husband weighs a lot, i dont know how much but its at least 270 maybe. according to the 1/3 their weight formula his horse should carry him, but his horse has to stagger for balance when he first mounts and when other horses are not worn out on a ride, his is. So the 1/3 their weight doesnt work either. I have a horse that weighs 1300 on tape and he carries my husband as if no one is up there. and he is 17hh. maybe height has something to do with it too. But he seems unaffected by carrying a lot of weight, but then when my husband rides the ride is short, rarely more than an hour, and the ride is at a gentle pace usually during the cool early morning hours. if a rider is heavy they should ask the horse. A horse gives many many obvious signs when a rider weighs too much. The most obvious one--- altho they are a horse that will stand for mounting they MUST take a step or two to regain balance when a too-heavy person mounts and they sway, and sometimes their rear end will give away a little as they step to regain balance. Also excessive sweatiness and exertion on a ride when all other horses are dry and not breathing hard. then later on- a wrecked back and pain issues such as bucking and bolting. janice-- sometimes i just get exasperated and impatient yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
Don't the extra horses still have to cover the same amount of ground? How much easier for them do you suppose it is to cover say 25 miles unencumbered as compared to traveling the same amount of miles with a rider? Interesting questions! It has to be easier to go without a rider. I think the rider impacts the horse quite a bit, particularly if the rider is leaning back, and balancing on the rein. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
On Mon, Jul 30, 2007 at 08:04:26PM -0700, Nancy Sturm wrote: I have wondered about the Icelandic method of riding several horses during a trip. I think the US Calvary and some large ranch outfits had the same practice. Don't the extra horses still have to cover the same amount of ground? How much easier for them do you suppose it is to cover say 25 miles unencumbered as compared to traveling the same amount of miles with a rider? well, as someone who's hiked both with and without a backpack, i would say subjectively that going without is a whole lot easier. how many miles do wild horses (a ranging grazing prey animal) typically cover during a day? --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 06:36:44AM -0400, Karen Thomas wrote: I personally like some of the more moderately-framed Icelandics - I feel like Melnir fits me (or maybe I fit him) better than about any horse (ok, pony) that I've ever ridden. But, I'm petite-framed, 5'0 tall, size 5.5-6 shoes, and a 6 wrist, even though I'm chubbier than I should be at 138 pounds. But, for a large man to ride him? Not my pony! Even though Melnir is fully mature now, I have been taking my time to condition him slowly to carry MY weight. It's just the nice thing to do. *grin* one funny thing about stjarni is he looks like a perfect fit to me for everybody from my 60# smallest student to my 6'2 husband. and of course he feels perfect to me, and i am rather tiny myself for an adult; 5'1, 110#, size 6 ariat terrains. then again he was 12 when i got him, so fully mature, and had been ridden by goodness knows who before that, so perhaps he is just used to a wide range of riders. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
well, just think of you walking five miles unencumbered, then walking five miles with over 1/3 your weight on your back. Janice
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
On Mon, Jul 30, 2007 at 09:14:00PM -0700, Judy Ryder wrote: Have we heard a trainer, breeder, or seller of Icelandic Horses claim that the horses can carry a 300 lb man all day? i've never heard an icelander make such claims. Here's an excerpt (attached) from an article written from an interview with Steinar, Diddi's son. i'm sorry, but i have the world's most primitive mail reader here, so i can't see an attachment? could i ask you to quote the relevant bits? That's just one instance; I believe it's been stated by other imported trainers with the amount at 250 lbs. On one breeder's site, in regard to a horse for sale, it includes the following comment: the professional trainers from Iceland that saw her say she could easily carry 350 lbs. but not all day. In a horse magazine, one importer says: Icelandics are powerful enough to carry a 300-pound man over tough terrain on long trail rides. i think some of these terms are insufficiently defined: tough terrian and long trail rides. for most people at my barn, an hour of trail riding is long. since my trail-riding buddy turns out to be one of the diehards, for us it's become four or five hours. both his 20-year-old quarab and stjarni seem to like this a lot, and except on very hot days they come home cool and comfortable. (we give them liniment baths when it's gotten icky out.) and how well does the theoretical 300# rider *ride*? i love your webpage with tips for horses for large people! i will be printing this out and posting it in my barn for the benefit of some of our larger riders and people (like me!) who sometimes have large people riding their horses. Great; thanks! thank you!! to share my own experiences with stjarni (an icelandic of considerable bulk: 14hh, weight-tapes 1000-1100# (i should do this again), 9 cannon bones, and in work about 1-4 hours a day, five days a week, several different riders): i have one beginner rider who weighs around 240#. she's still on the lead line at the walk, as her balance is poor, but we're working on her strength-building so she's actually *on* for up to an hour. stjarni's shown no signs of soreness or discomfort (i massage him after every day he gets ridden, pretty much). he's careful with her, as he is with all his beginning riders. i also have an advanced rider, 190#, who has ridden stjarni over fences in the ring and out on the trail for as much as an hour (say five or six miles) with no problems (stjarni LOVES this guy :) i would be willing to try letting him carry a 300# rider, and let stjarni tell me (by his willingness, his expressions, and his tension under massage) whether or not he was uncomfortable. but i wouldn't say offhand it wouldn't work, and of course stjarni isn't the biggest or strongest icey in the world, either. but i think the biggest factor might be the rider's ability to balance well and make stjarni's life easy; the well-packed, well-fitted backpack model :) --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
Oh my, Vicka, that would be your horse or your husband? Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 10:41:49AM -0700, Nancy Sturm wrote: Oh my, Vicka, that would be your horse or your husband? in which way? :) i recently amused a friend by pointing out that daniel (my husband) is not my other half -- he's a complete individual unto himself, thanks very much. but when i'm riding stjarni, i do strive to be the other half of a unified being -- i visualize us as a centaur. (of course, when daniel's on stjarni, *he's* the other half of their centaur. i shall gracefully decline to discuss ways in which daniel and i might be considered to share a center of momentum ;) --vicka ps. my husband is tall, slender, and only moderately strong -- i would never ask *him* to lift 300#!
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
On 7/31/07, Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: even if a horse can carry 300 pounds, and even if they could carry it all day without harm, i KNOW most cannot ride balanced at that weight. I was thinking this too. I know of a couple very heavy riders who are good riders, but can they truly stay balanced at that size? 300# is damn heavy! Robyn S.
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 01:44:16PM -0600, Robyn Schulze wrote: I was thinking this too. I know of a couple very heavy riders who are good riders, but can they truly stay balanced at that size? 300# is damn heavy! as someone who practices aikido with some very large folks, i think i can give this an unqualified yes. balance is only tangentially related to size. i mean, stjarni's over a thousand pounds, and i don't think anyone would question *his* ability to be balanced...if he's not, it's just something to work on. --vicka
[IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
Here's some information about the weight-carrying ability of Icelandic Horses: http://iceryder.net/weight.html Have we heard a trainer, breeder, or seller of Icelandic Horses claim that the horses can carry a 300 lb man all day? Is this true? Is it logical? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
On Mon, Jul 30, 2007 at 03:27:55PM -0700, Judy Ryder wrote: Have we heard a trainer, breeder, or seller of Icelandic Horses claim that the horses can carry a 300 lb man all day? i've never heard an icelander make such claims. it is however common practice in iceland to go out on a trip with multiple horses, so that you can change horses (perhaps several times a day) and the others rest when they're not taking their turn carrying you. so i don't think it's typical in iceland to ride a single horse on an all-day trip. i love your webpage with tips for horses for large people! i will be printing this out and posting it in my barn for the benefit of some of our larger riders and people (like me!) who sometimes have large people riding their horses. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
I have wondered about the Icelandic method of riding several horses during a trip. I think the US Calvary and some large ranch outfits had the same practice. Don't the extra horses still have to cover the same amount of ground? How much easier for them do you suppose it is to cover say 25 miles unencumbered as compared to traveling the same amount of miles with a rider? Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
Have we heard a trainer, breeder, or seller of Icelandic Horses claim that the horses can carry a 300 lb man all day? i've never heard an icelander make such claims. Here's an excerpt (attached) from an article written from an interview with Steinar, Diddi's son. That's just one instance; I believe it's been stated by other imported trainers with the amount at 250 lbs. On one breeder's site, in regard to a horse for sale, it includes the following comment: the professional trainers from Iceland that saw her say she could easily carry 350 lbs. In a horse magazine, one importer says: Icelandics are powerful enough to carry a 300-pound man over tough terrain on long trail rides. it is however common practice in iceland to go out on a trip with multiple horses, so that you can change horses (perhaps several times a day) and the others rest when they're not taking their turn carrying you. so i don't think it's typical in iceland to ride a single horse on an all-day trip. Yes, I think that's true. I don't understand why they would try to change that to say differently just to sell horses, when it's not true and may not be in the best interests of the horse. i love your webpage with tips for horses for large people! i will be printing this out and posting it in my barn for the benefit of some of our larger riders and people (like me!) who sometimes have large people riding their horses. Great; thanks! Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com attachment: articlesteinar2a.jpg
[IceHorses] Weight-Carrying Ability
The subject of the weight-carrying ability of Icelandic Horses has come up on the treeless list. Here's some info on weight-carrying ability: http://iceryder.net/weight.html Not all Icelandic Horses can carry weights well or for long periods. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
