Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Stella
Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://iceryder.net/gaitstella.html > Man, she's got me stumped. . . I think I see foxtrot some of the time, but then, in some of the stills, she looks lateral in set-down and I think, naw, it's a saddle rack. . . Is she mixing her gaits a little maybe? I am very curious what the verdict is on this one. Nice little gaited horse though -- whatever she's doing!I wouldn't kick her out of my stable, that's for sure! : ) -- Renee M. in Michigan
[IceHorses] What Gait / Stella
http://iceryder.net/gaitstella.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] What Gait / Gaska
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86iVZHTt4k8 Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Eclipse
Man oh manI don't like that pounding on the pavement Looks like a saddle rack to me... Wanda On 21/02/2008, Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S2EIUc3vRU > > > Judy > http://iceryder.net > http://clickryder.com > > > IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses > > "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, > contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and > unrealistic." > > "All truth passes through three stages. > First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. > Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer > > > [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com > [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com > [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo > [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Save the earth, it's the only place to get chocolate.
[IceHorses] What Gait / Eclipse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S2EIUc3vRU Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 07:27:57 -0600, you wrote: >if they do a nice easy rocking chair canter in the >field, will they usually under saddle? Yes, that's been my experience. My old horse Solvi had a huge canter in the field and it was really hard to sit on (there's no way you would put a beginner on him for canter). I do find that in general horses which have pace (won't call them 5gaited horses Karen! ; )) usually have softer canters than those that don't. The canter is often 4-beat and lacking in suspension, but very nice to sit on - same as their trot, a lot of the time. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
> > It seems to be pretty rare for Icelandics to manage a nice slow > collected canter. Ability, or training? The latter, I think, though > some 5gaited horses find it really hard. > > Mic > do you happen to know, being as you have a lot of experience riding DIFFERENT icies... if they do a nice easy rocking chair canter in the field, will they usually under saddle? Cause nasi has an almost lazy relaxed easy going canter sometimes. Then he also has the scooter powerhouse take off canter Tivar has also. I bet there is something in their conformation that causes them to have this power canter... my walking horses don't, none of them. Some have more easy going canters than others but there is a huge difference in the speed and power of a canter and a gallop with them, whereas with Tivar it seems a fine line, even in the field. I have not seen him do an easy going canter in the field either btw. Janice-- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
RE: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
and someday i'll learn to attach things ;) >>I would say she has rather a nice sloping shoulder. I don't dare judge particular conformation traits in moving, tacked horses, so I could well be wrong, but if anything, I would have guessed in that picture that he might have a somewhat upright shoulder. :) It's hard enough to judge from just a picture, but to try to judge a moving, tacked horse is virtually impossible I think. To judge conformation well, the horse needs to be standing in front of you, so you can actually poke and feel the bones and joints. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1270 - Release Date: 2/10/2008 12:21 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
Not here. We don't rush their training and thus, they don't "rush" into their gaits. Of course, we're not trying to do any "collected" canters, not in the true sense of the word. But, nice, relaxed canters? Every Icelandic that we've started here can canter easily, as opposed to some lugging or rushing gallop. I can't think of any Icelandic in my pasture, or who has been in my pasture, who doesn't show both canter and gallop at liberty. I should l put one disclaimer on that statement I made. I bought my Icelandics with pace in mind - or rather, the lack of it. I don't care if my horses have some lateralness in their gait range (saddle rack and even a LITTLE step-pace can be pretty cool), but we learned the hard way how difficult an inherently pacey can be. We loved old Mac dearly, and he had many wonderful qualities...but because he couldn't canter, or even trot easily, it was risky to jump him, and he never developed a canter. We were limited in what we could do with him. (His gallop did however, become less appalling with time.) I saw a few really pacey horses when I was looking for Icelandic's, but having owned Holly (a multi-gaited TWH with a good trot) and Mac, who could pace, step-pace and occasionally manage a little running walk - I KNEW which kind of horse was more appealing. I passed on buying any Icelandic's that I knew to be pacey. I wanted strong gaits...but to me, a horse doesn't have to be pacey to be "strongly gaited." Another think I've always suspected: "five-gaited" horses, meaning ones who have been traditionally trained, have been trained to PACE. I have always suspected that training pace will detract from a horse's ability to canter. I can actually USE a canter, but I don't have much use for pace, so guess I train, and which I don't. Since I don't encourage pace, I can't say that for sure, but it seems to me that training pace could confuse the horse, or even encourage a more lateral "muscle memory." I don't know that, I'm just speculating. But, for whatever reason, it seems odd that I see no problem at all with Icelandic's cantering (overall, across the breed) where I've heard many people say what Mic said. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1270 - Release Date: 2/10/2008 12:21 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
>>> It seems to be pretty rare for Icelandics to manage a nice slow collected canter. Not here. We don't rush their training and thus, they don't "rush" into their gaits. Of course, we're not trying to do any "collected" canters, not in the true sense of the word. But, nice, relaxed canters? Every Icelandic that we've started here can canter easily, as opposed to some lugging or rushing gallop. I can't think of any Icelandic in my pasture, or who has been in my pasture, who doesn't show both canter and gallop at liberty. >>> Ability, or training? The latter, I think, though some 5gaited horses find it really hard. Overall, I agree with you, Mic, but I'd revise that last sentence to say "pacey horses seem to find it hard to canter." Beyond that, some horses need extra help finding their balance in canter - and that is totally blind to breed or gaitedness. If the rider is out-of-balance, or inexperienced, that can be a huge drag on the horse too. The two worst canters that come to my mind were Mac, the show-trained TWH who was inherently fairly paceyand Sundance, who was big, clunky, tended to fall on the forehandand he was a three-gaited QH. You couldn't ask for two more opposite horses re: gaitedness than Sundance and Mac. In contrast, Joe, the big App who's the other "big" horse (16H-ish) we've owned, has a lovely, easy, relaxed canter - not w/p slow, but one that was perfectly appropriate from the get-go for low-level dressage tests. (We began working him "towards collection" but he was an easy candidate for that discipline.) The gaited horses I've met who really, truly find it hard to canter are the horses who are pacey, the ones who seem to have absolutely no trot in their repertoire. That's another place I think the term "five-gaited confuses things. I am thinking of two Icelandic's (and one little TWH mare) in my pasture at the moment who have the full range of gaits, from trot to pace. Sina is one - she's 13H. Of all the horses I've ridden, any size, any breed, she has the best, easiest canter - true three-beat, relaxed, delightfully smooth, and not rushing-fast. Another is Trausti - also the full range of gaits and the kind of canter that just makes people grin - smooth, soft, and not at blinding speed. Both of these are definitely canter, and not gallop. Oh, they CAN gallop, but they don't feel obligated to rush into it. I could go on and on. Generally, it seems to me that if the horse has a wide NATURAL range of gaits (and that's what "five-gaited" suggests to me, although I think it's often a euphemism for "pacey") then getting a nice canter shouldn't be an issue at all. Holly, my TWH, is also multi-gaited with the full range from trot to pace...and pre-Sina, I said she had the best canter I've ever ridden: smooth, relaxed and balanced feeling from her first attempts under saddle. I think we need to look at canter problems as, at least, two types of problems. One issue would be the tends-to-pace horses, who are so lateral that they can't seem to get a three-beat canter without rushing into gallop. Then we have the horses who need help finding their balance with their canters - be they naturally klutzy, strung-out, insecure, have out-of-balance riders, whatever. The horses of this last type can often be helped to canter more nicely, whereas the pacey ones may simply not have a good canter in them. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1270 - Release Date: 2/10/2008 12:21 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
On Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 09:19:49AM +, Mic Rushen wrote:
> >you'd think a shorter horse would have less
> >"power" but he seems to have more power in a canter than my big horses
> >have in a gallop.
>
> It seems to be pretty rare for Icelandics to manage a nice slow
> collected canter. Ability, or training? The latter, I think, though
> some 5gaited horses find it really hard.
i've ridden two five-gaited icelandics (stjarni and litfrida from the
vermont icelandic horse farms) who had darling slow canters.
both are way more available on the trail. litfrida liked to canter
uphill, and would do so in a very smooth, gentle, slow manner, and would
always drop to her walk two strides before i wanted to :)
stjarni i think had not been ridden in a ring much before i got him, and
when i first started riding him seemed to think that cantering in such a
tiny space was sheer madness ("but there's about to be something IN THE
WAY!") at any speed. he has a very long stride anyway, and his
preferred canter is not quick-strided, but it is fast and not all that
easy to turn, i think. but doing a lot of trail riding where he is one
of the faster-gaited horses, but needing to stay behind shower (the
ex-racehorse barnmate who likes to lead or race, but not follow) he's
developed this precious, silky little canter i call his "catch-up
canter". it is slow, and clearly designed to maximize his time at the
canter between my asking him to tolt or trot at the front of the (by
then usually trotting and a few cantering) rest of the group, and
getting close to shower, where of course he has to slow down again. it
feels very different from his ordinary canter, which is not more
energetic, just covers a lot more ground with each stride. now if only
i can convince him he can do that in our ringmaybe come spring.
i do not claim either photographic evidence or enough expertise in what
you mean by "nice slow collected canter" but i'd call both of these that.
--vicka
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:37:55 -0600, you wrote: >you'd think a shorter horse would have less >"power" but he seems to have more power in a canter than my big horses >have in a gallop. It seems to be pretty rare for Icelandics to manage a nice slow collected canter. Ability, or training? The latter, I think, though some 5gaited horses find it really hard. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
>and someday i'll learn to attach things ;) > I would say she has rather a nice sloping shoulder. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Kolfi and Njorun
I seem to see pace in everything, but I'm still thinking pace. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Kolfi and Njorun
Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://iceryder.net/videogaitkolfinjorun.html > > Two little pacers. To my eyes, the white one comes close to a stepping pace at times.Man, that slow-mo feature is SURE nice to see the footfalls as well as pick-up and set down. What do you guys see? -- Renee M. in Michigan
[IceHorses] What Gait / Kolfi and Njorun
http://iceryder.net/videogaitkolfinjorun.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
And doesnt mind others leaving him. not AT all. I really like that trait in a horse! Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
On Feb 10, 2008 7:32 PM, Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > are you new at riding icelandics like me Nancy?? > > Oh my yes. If I used my hands and my feet, I could probably count up the > rides I have had on an Icelandic, and I've never ridden a truly well > trained Icelandic. well its just weird to me, none of my bigger horses have a canter that feels like a gallop.you'd think a shorter horse would have less "power" but he seems to have more power in a canter than my big horses have in a gallop. When he goes uphill in a canter it feels very very powerful like he is charging full blown. One time at a powerful canter like this he turned a corner and I almost flew off :) But thank goodness he is a horse that seems relieved and very willing to slow down. And doesnt mind others leaving him. not AT all. which is a problem if you have a horse going too fast and he wont slow cause other horses are cantering off. Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
> are you new at riding icelandics like me Nancy?? Oh my yes. If I used my hands and my feet, I could probably count up the rides I have had on an Icelandic, and I've never ridden a truly well trained Icelandic. First, I rode Lina, out friend's therapy horse. She's a little doll, but really trained only to be led with a disabled young lady riding. Now I'm riding the 3/4 Icey Tosca, who has probably 30 rides or so. I haven't even tried to canter her. I did watch Bev ride her and Bev made the canter look very smooth, but she's a lovely rider, so it's hard to tell. Miss Tosca threw in a buck during that session, so I haven't been in a hurry to work on canter. We walked her four miles, the first half all up hill, last week. She's going to be a great little trail horse. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
the AQHA trot, the peanut roller thing so slow it is almost a limp, is called a "lope". Nope, the lope is their pitiful looking version of a canter. The jog is their pitiful trot... Actually though, the show jog has about as much to do with a "natural jog" as a natural running walk has to do with what we see at the BL shows. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
are you new at riding icelandics like me Nancy?? I keep expecting the trotting breed gaits to be the same and they arent! Tivar's canter is almost scarey, it feels like a powerful thundering gallop on a walking horse, definitely not a "rocking chair" canter. But I see nasi in the pasture and he has a sorta rocking chair canter. I would hate to be on tivar in a full blown gallop, which i rarely see him do, but he can do it :) He has a little prissy trot in the field and then a big floaty trot. I have no idea which one is the one I like to ride best. But I think it is the prissy one :) Yesterday he cracked me up. We came in very late from a long LONG ride, too long, but we stopped a lot and rested...he was very tired and probably sore. I know I was! and my husband was working on the tractor and got between Tivar and the hay roll and tivar just stood there, daring my husband to run him over I guess haha. My husband got down to move something, walked over to tivar and whispered in his ear (he told me later he said "will you MOVE teev?") and turned to get back on the tractor and tivar suddenly whirled and took off bucking and kicking. It was hilarious. Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
On Feb 10, 2008 4:14 AM, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Certainly nearly all five gaited (ie with pace) horses can do a nice > trot without suspension, the definition of jog, I believe (it's not > much recognised in the UK, being looked on as "faulty" in most breeds, > though it's much more comfortable to ride and presumably uses much > less energy). > > Mic > my teev has a wonderful jog like you describe, and a choppy trot too. I find the slower he is trotting the choppier which you would think it would be opposite! I wonder sometimes if the choppy trot is what some people call a hollow trot? Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
the AQHA trot, the peanut roller thing so slow it is almost a limp, is called a "lope". Many train it with a technique called "spur check" which is interesting, they spur the horse when it goes too fast. "check" its speed. Sometimes people will buy AQHA former show horses at auction and be baffled when they spur it to go and it starts this limping bizarre peanut roller lope. Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:04:10 -0500, you wrote: >hm. what do you think of stjarni's shoulder from that pic, if i may >ask? Can you post it again, please? (or send it privately if you prefer) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
> How is the "proper" trot in those horses you would classify as having > a good jog? A very VERY long time ago I rode a few Western horses. I don't know what they are doing today, but then these horses were asked to jog, to trot and to extend the trot. The good ones had lovely trots at each speed. I switched to riding English about 40 years ago and rode dressage horses that did a working trot, extended trot and collected trot. With an athletic well-balanced horse, you could sit all three. The collected trot is NOT a jog. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
How is the "proper" trot in those horses you would classify as having a good jog? That's probably a little hard for me to answer, since a fair number of the three-gaited horses I've ridden have been QH or stock-type horses. :) Let me just compare the "joggers" to the "non-joggers" I've experienced. Sundance, my beloved old QH, had just a little suspension to his trot, meaning it was easier for most people to post to it, but it really didn't take me that long to learn to sit it. There was virtually no suspension in his jog, and the jog strides were shorter. Thunder (Arab) and Joe (App) don't have any jog that we've ever found. They both have long-strided trots with a good bit of suspension, and suspension generally means some bounce. I was pretty proud of myself when I learned to sit Joe's trot instead of post it...but I never mastered sitting the Thunder Trot. Attitude is also a contributor too - even good old, laid back, built-to-jog old Sundance got excited enough on the trail one time to do a little piaffe, which means even he could muster up some suspension if motivated I'm sure there are other factors to consider, including training. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
>>> hm. what do you think of stjarni's shoulder from that pic, if i may >>> ask? It's hard to tell in a picture of a moving horse, especially one wearing tack. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
On Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 04:57:39PM +, Mic Rushen wrote: > >owned in the past, but I think one contributing factor to a horse having a > >nice jog is having a rather upright shoulder, although not all horses with > >upright shoulders seem to jog equally. > > I've always been taught - and experienced - that horses with an > upright shoulder have a much harder, less comfortable trot. hm. what do you think of stjarni's shoulder from that pic, if i may ask? --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 07:51:12 -0500, you wrote: >owned in the past, but I think one contributing factor to a horse having a >nice jog is having a rather upright shoulder, although not all horses with >upright shoulders seem to jog equally. I've always been taught - and experienced - that horses with an upright shoulder have a much harder, less comfortable trot. How is the "proper" trot in those horses you would classify as having a good jog? Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
RE: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
>>> Certainly nearly all five gaited (ie with pace) horses can do a nice trot without suspension, the definition of jog, I believe (it's not much recognised in the UK, being looked on as "faulty" in most breeds, though it's much more comfortable to ride and presumably uses much less energy). If you are talking about a jog like a QH might do (no, not the extreme jog-in-place like the show western pleasure horses do) I think there's more to it than just a lack of suspension. There's also a notable relaxed air to the horse, and jog strides aren't terribly long and ground-covering. It's a relaxed trail gait, which along with the lack of suspension makes it a gait you can ride all day. A good many "real world" QH's (meaning those not bred for the extreme w/p crap - I don't know much about them) will freely offer a nice little jog under saddle, but if you ask them to "kick it up a notch", they will go ahead and do what most people would consider a "trot". To me, the difference between the two gaits includes all of the above. I guess if you really wanted to count jog as a separate gait from trot (I don't really) I think you'd find that a good many QH are "naturally four-gaited." :) I know a lot of Icelandics can trot with very little suspension, but only a few come to my mind has having a "jog." One would be Falki, who also has a nice "real trot" - my nephew discussed riding him in a little local w/p class, but his soccer schedule interfered. I don't think Falki would win an adult's w/p class with a bunch of QH if the competition was even semi-serious, but I think it would have been interesting to see him in a kid's low-stress class. There was also one or two at Robyn's clinic that I felt do what I'd call a jog. But the one who really comes to my mind is Janice's Tivar. He's really got a very nice, ride-all-day jog. Tivar may be gait-challenged but with a jog like his, maybe he really isn't. :) Interestingly enough, none of the ones that I think of having a jog (as I think of the gait) have much (if any) pace in their repertoire to speak of at all. I could be wrong - I never spent a lot of time analyzing the QH's that I've owned in the past, but I think one contributing factor to a horse having a nice jog is having a rather upright shoulder, although not all horses with upright shoulders seem to jog equally. I believe the angle and length of the humerus bone is a big factor too. I think if the humerus is long and angled up towards the front of the horse, there's a tendency for the horse to lift his knees - the angle of the shoulder will either neutralize that tendency or emphasize it, since the bones work together.A horse with knee action probably isn't going to have much of a jog...I think... I need to think about that. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 18:40:37 -0500, you wrote: >do you think most iceys have a "jog" similar in footfalls but distinct >in feeling from their bigger "trot"? Certainly nearly all five gaited (ie with pace) horses can do a nice trot without suspension, the definition of jog, I believe (it's not much recognised in the UK, being looked on as "faulty" in most breeds, though it's much more comfortable to ride and presumably uses much less energy). Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
On Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 07:04:22PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > What kind of saddle are you using that sure looks comfy. He is beautiful, > wow. Sylvia thank you! :) that is a sensation dressage g3 saddle that i had on trial from kaaren jordan (kaaren please correct me if i am wrong?) it is EXTREMELY comfortable, although the flap is too long for my leg when i jump -- i had not yet discovered that stjarni even *liked* jumping at the time :) --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
In a message dated 2/9/2008 3:21:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) What kind of saddle are you using that sure looks comfy. He is beautiful, wow. Sylvia **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 48)
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
> I think if an Icelandic is given his head from the start and allowed > to find his own balance during training, then all sorts of nice things > can happen. *grin* if i ever get a camera again, or a video that works with my machine, i will try to get some pictures of stjarni's "big trot". i ride it mostly in half-seat with the reins loose and my hands half up his neck. it's his preferred gait for small jumps. it's quite fast, and my stiff self cannot sit it worth a darn. i suspect sometime earlier in his training he was discouraged from trotting at all, by somebody who preferred tolt :/ but he has always trotted in the field, and so i'm always pleased when he does it under saddle. it's usually "big" though, as opposed to the "jog" sort of feeling i had during that one pici wonder if it's my posture (down in the butt and slightly swaybacked) that made the difference for him. stjarni is thirteen now and i'm pushing forty, but i think it's never too late to train :) --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
On 09/02/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > to me too -- but if i remember correctly from the time, it was slow, > and SO SMOOOTH and bounce-less i could hardly believe it when i saw > the picture. (very unlike stjarni's usual trot, which is HUGE :) To me, an Icelandic could be standing on his head, and he's still the smoothest thing out there without even trying. Gusti has a lovely trot, very easy to sit, but with nice timing so very easy to post to as well. I love watching Cara and Gusti trot, she just pops out of the saddle like a little cork bobbing along.. > do you think most iceys have a "jog" similar in footfalls but distinct > in feeling from their bigger "trot"? I think if an Icelandic is given his head from the start and allowed to find his own balance during training, then all sorts of nice things can happen. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
On Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 05:32:49PM -0600, Wanda Lauscher wrote: > Looks like a nice trot to me. to me too -- but if i remember correctly from the time, it was slow, and SO SMOOOTH and bounce-less i could hardly believe it when i saw the picture. (very unlike stjarni's usual trot, which is HUGE :) do you think most iceys have a "jog" similar in footfalls but distinct in feeling from their bigger "trot"? thanks, --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
On Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 05:06:54PM -0600, Wanda Lauscher wrote: > On 09/02/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > so, what gait? > > > > --vicka > > Did you mean to attach a pic with that Vicka? i did, in a message shortly following. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
Looks like a nice trot to me. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
On 09/02/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > so, what gait? > > --vicka Did you mean to attach a pic with that Vicka? Wanda
[IceHorses] "what gait?" pic
it occurs to me that i found one (from last summer). (i still can't find my camera. more annoyingly, i discovered that the "flip video" i really wanted doesn't work with macos) so, what gait? --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] What gait, Ima 2
>>> There's no canter on the cheat sheet, but that's my guess. Yes, it was canter. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] What gait, Ima 2
On 2/9/08, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This is normally a bad angle for seeing gaits, but maybe you can see this > one plainly enough. > There's no canter on the cheat sheet, but that's my guess. -- Anna Southern Ohio
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait, Ima?
On 2/9/08, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hopefully, this is an easyone, > Wish you hadn't said that. When I first looked at it, I though trot, but when I got out my cheat sheet, I now thick it is a foxtrot. The only thing is that this two foot phase is close to the two foot phase of the trot, but in the trot pictures there seems to be more extension. -- Anna Southern Ohio
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Willie
Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's Willie: > > http://iceryder.net/videogaitwillie.html Oh wow - he reminds me so much of the way our Rose could pace everywhere. I remember trying to get her to break that gait by riding around the outside of the roundpen and she'd just pace right along in an arc -- no problem. Anyway, I'd be inclined to say hard pace. I agree with Lynn though -- I think with time and a rider on his back, he'll eventually find at least a stepping pace or hopefully, saddle rack. Does Willie trot on his own out in the pasture/paddock? If he trots, I REALLY think he'll work over to a saddle rack. -- Renee M. in Michigan
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 6
Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://iceryder.net/videogaitnanna6.html' > stepping pace -- but not one of the nicer smooth ones, looking at the rider. -- Renee M.
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Willie
On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:00 AM, Judy Ryder wrote: > Here's Willie: > > http://iceryder.net/videogaitwillie.html > Looks to me like a very nice pace. He has the flexibility in his hindquarters and hocks to execute it without much side to side sway (his tail is moving mainly from the breeze, not from his body motion) and there is minimal suspension. I'm guessing he will tolt when slowed down and with a rider's weight, but even if he continues pacing it should be easy to sit. Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/ http://www.dslextreme.com/~napha/JoyOfRiding/index.htm
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 6
It looks like pace but it doesn't seem perfectly even - so I am not sure if that makes it something else. Sarah in MT Gosh, I'm happy to see so many people playing the what gait game today! Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 6
> I would have guessed either stepping pace or maybe even flat walk. I > probably should just go outside and ride. Just embrace your position on the grand scale of "what gait" expertise. Maybe some day we will be hardly ever wrong, and then what? There will be no way to go but down :) Janice
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 6
> > http://iceryder.net/videogaitnanna6.html' > It looks like pace but it doesn't seem perfectly even - so I am not sure if that makes it something else. Sarah in MT
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Willie
> Here's Willie: > > http://iceryder.net/videogaitwillie.html > I think he is pacing! Sarah in MT
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Willie
I can't believe he is so coordinated that he can pace in a circle, but that's what I think I'm seeing. Even Twist, low on the scale for athleticism, trots in the round pen. Nancy
[IceHorses] What Gait / Willie
Here's Willie: http://iceryder.net/videogaitwillie.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 6
>>> I will NEVER learn. I feel a tantrum coming on. I can't see pace, at >>> least the hard (ship rolling on a heavy sea) pace Twist does where his >>> feet on one side work in sync. I would have guessed either stepping >>> pace or maybe even flat walk. I probably should just go outside and >>> ride. Never take my word for it. I think I understand the gaits fairly well, but my eyes can be pretty bad. And if there's any way to conjure up an optical illusion, I seem to be very talented at doing so! :) Besides, there will probably be some points where one of us might consider a gait, for instance, to be a slightly-diagonal running walk, where the next person might consider it a towards-square foxtrot. Believe me, if that's all we have to quibble over, I could care less! Transitions confuse things too - and unfortunately for those of us trying to analyze gaits, horses at liberty are always changing speeds, and maybe changing gaits too. I just assumed that Judy wanted us to look at the gait at the beginning, not as she slowed down. And, btw, I should have clarified: I think it starts as pace. But as she slows, the pace gets more broken - or at least I think so. So, I see pace at the beginning, barely broken, but then I see it transition down through a step or so of step pace, down through as step or two of walk before she stops.So, depending on where you made your decision, I may agree with youassuming my eyes are working well today. I think it's helpful when Judy shows the slow motion so that we can see the footfalls more clearly. But, the downside to slo-mo is that we forget what the real speed is. I've done that a couple of times - tried to assign a "soft gait" to the plain old ordinary walk. Judy, I hate to be picky, but what might be helpful when you do these would be to tack on the original, actual-speed clip to the tail-end of the slo-mo, so we can be reminded of the speed. (That did sound picky, didn't it...sorry!) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 6
On 08/02/2008, Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I will NEVER learn. I feel a tantrum coming on. I can't see pace, at > least the hard (ship rolling on a heavy sea) pace Twist does where his feet > on one side work in sync. > > I would have guessed either stepping pace or maybe even flat walk. I > probably should just go outside and ride. I was thinking stepping pace tooat least for a few strides there was some separation in the set down... Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 6
> > Pace, almost purely two-beat. I like her other gaits better. :) I will NEVER learn. I feel a tantrum coming on. I can't see pace, at least the hard (ship rolling on a heavy sea) pace Twist does where his feet on one side work in sync. I would have guessed either stepping pace or maybe even flat walk. I probably should just go outside and ride. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 6
>>> http://iceryder.net/videogaitnanna6.html' Pace, almost purely two-beat. I like her other gaits better. :) Is she doing something to ask for pace this time, or is this the mare's default...or is something else going on? Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1265 - Release Date: 2/7/2008 11:17 AM
[IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 6
http://iceryder.net/videogaitnanna6.html' Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Blessi
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb1bNjrUCv4 Pam, he is a gorgeous horse! I do love a blaze! He's a little bit far away to see which legs are which. Do you want me to try to bring him closer to the camera and put in some slo-mo? Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] What Gait Standardbred
Well, here's what he's NOT doing. This is Brett Hanover, a pacing Standardbred and ancestor to our Twist. Nancy <>
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Standardbred in Harness
Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What gait is this Standardbred doing (in harness)? I see a lateral gait in a very close to one-foot support phase, but it looks like there is a 2-foot support phase coming next.So, I'd be inclined to say a rack (tolt), or maybe a saddle rack. -- Renee M. in Michigan
[IceHorses] What Gait / Blessi
The video link below shows a friend of mine Peder Swenson riding Blessi. I thought everyone might enjoy seeing this. Peder is over 6 feet in height. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb1bNjrUCv4 Regards, Pamela
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
With the understanding that I NEVER get it right: Nanna's slightly lateral movement seems to start with the feet on the same side of her body picking up pretty much together and setting down at different times. On the little chart that Judy suggested I sleep with, that makes Nanna's gait somewhere between a flat walk and a running walk. This is familiar to me because it sounds like Hunter's killer flat walk. Sadly, I can't tell the difference between the ponies. As first I thought the second horse was doing a stepping pace, but he really looks like he's doing a faster version of what Nanna is doing. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
> > > > > http://iceryder.net/videogaitnanna3.html > > > How does Nanna's #3 gait (above) compare to this Icelandic Horse's gait: > > http://iceryder.net/videogaitice3.html > I love this stuff. . . . Okay, with the gelding I see diagonal pairs working rather than lateral pairs, but broken -- that is, the front feet hitting before the diagonal rear. He also has a little "jump" (for lack of a better way to describe it!) in the front. There's pretty good speed involved and a distinctive head nod with the tail not really undulating (as in the racking gaits) but carried out from the body. He also looks to be quite smooth.I *think* he is doing a foxtrot -- which is one of the hardest gaits for me to see, so I'm probably wrong! But I think I see it. I like it whatever it is. : ) Jaunty little guy! -- Renee M. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.15/1248 - Release Date: 01/28/2008 9:32 PM
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
> http://iceryder.net/videogaitnanna3.html How does Nanna's #3 gait (above) compare to this Icelandic Horse's gait: http://iceryder.net/videogaitice3.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] What gait - Runa #2
With nanna, I kinda thought RW, but I studied it hard and thought I saw just a barely perceptive swing of the nose from side to side so i said stepping pace I noticed that too, Janice! But, you know what I saw recently in Lee's book that surprised me? Lee (who certainly stared at more gaited horses than I have!) pointed out that a foxtrot can also sometimes have a slightly side-to-side motion with the head nod. I'd always seen the nod with foxtrot as up-and-down, but not as pronounced as with a r/w. There's something else I'm going to have to pay attention to - assuming my doctor says I can ride again someday. These other body language traits are, I guess, merely CLUES about what gait the horse is doing, but I guess none of them are 100% definitive without considering the footfalls. The main thing to me with Nanna (#3) was that the rider was not jostling at all in the saddle, and the horse's feet were touching down pretty darned close to evenly spaced. At that point, I know I can tell some difference if I'm riding the horse, but frankly, when the gait is that close to center range, and the horse is doing it on his/her own with no external mechanical gimmicks, I'd say just enjoy it and count your lucky stars. :) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] What gait - Runa #2
On 1/29/08, Bia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >I would say canter...I'm almost always wrong on these pictures > >though... > >Bia > > Not this time. She was indeed cantering. > > > Hey! I think I'm getting a tiny bit better at the What Gait? Game > Bia > haha good for you!! I get better at some but still, i dont know why the heck I cant tell a rw!! What should I be looking for exactly! With nanna, I kinda thought RW, but I studied it hard and thought I saw just a barely perceptive swing of the nose from side to side so i said stepping pace Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
You should be very proud of Nanna! I would be. And I love Bekka. Is that a RW?? She has a little Nasi snip :) so watch OUT. Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
>>> I think we could possibly have Icelandic Fox Trotters and Icelandic >>> Walkers. I not only think it's possible, I think we DO have them - lots of them. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that we probably have a lot more horses who prefer either foxtrot or running walk (or both) than we have natural single-foot-support rackers. I don't think we have very many natural single-foot-tolters at all in this breed - ironic that it's supposed to the be breed's signature gait. I'm not complaining either - not by a long shot! Running walk and foxtrot are wonderful gaits, great for trail/pleasure horses. I DO see a notable number of natural saddle-rackers, some step-pacers, and I see a moderate number who are genuinely multi-gaited, having virtually the full gait spectrum in their repertoire. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
I just know, in a RW a horse has to be able to reach. RW is my favorite gait. > >>>I see lateral, and I see relatively EVEN lateral movement, so not a stepping pace to my eyes. BUT I don't see the reaching stepping under of the back legs that I associate with a running walk. Neither do I see the speed of a rack, or even the slower saddle rack. Hmmm. . . .But, whatever it is, it's really a neat little gait!I'd be inclined to guess slow saddle rack, or the beginnings of a saddle rack. Or a slightly pacy running walk. That said, whatever it is, I don't think I'd fiddle with it! Look at her go sans bit on a loose rein and I'm thinking she might be barefoot too. That is what NATURAL GAIT looks like. <<< >>> Does it HAVE to have reach, or is that just the ideal? I know they are >>> supposed to overstride with r/w, but isn't the paso llano basically the >>> same gait as the r/w, at least as far as footfalls? And the paso llano >>> doesn't have a head nod - does it have overstride? I don't know, just >>> asking. >>>Could it be a little running walk without the reach? Yes, the running walk does not *need* to have overstride, particularly not in the breeds other than TWH. The paso llano lacks the head nod and overstride, but it's because of conformational differences; same would be true of the Icelandic. We could call Nanna's #3 gait the paso llano. Now, it would be very interesting to see what other Icelandic Horses do as their natural gait, without all the mechanical aids (which are listed here: http://iceryder.net/mechanicalaids.html ) I think we could possibly have Icelandic Fox Trotters and Icelandic Walkers. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
> Boy was I surprised when we won! My first and maybe only blue ribbon for a > riding class. Nanna won 1st in a costume class at the State Fair one year. Good job! > I have all kinds of great Nanna stories but most of you have heard them > before! :o) Good stories bear repeating! Love the cattle drive picture! Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Rudy
>> This one is very close to a classic picture. > > I think it's a to die-for running walk. : ) Yes, running walk, but slightly to the lateral. The in-flight front foot would be closer to the vertical weight-bearing front leg, to be even, square. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
On 30/01/2008, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > But some horses simply can't trot easily because of the way they are built - > I wouldn't really count that as "stiffness" in any bad way - it's just > different. No not bad at all. I'm just always looking for stiffness issues when I see these old folks move. She really looks very good. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
Could it be a little running walk without the reach? She's a lovely little mover, but she reminds me a bit of Hreggur. That's what I wonder. We envision aits have their "ideal" forms, but horses come in infinite combinations of conformations. Would we necessarily expect the form of a running walk to look the same on a rangey TWH as on a short, stocky Icelandic? >>> Is there a bit of stiffness in her back end? Does she trot freely >>> Judy? If she's allowed to trot a lot that will help loosen any >>> stiffness issues. But some horses simply can't trot easily because of the way they are built - I wouldn't really count that as "stiffness" in any bad way - it's just different. I can't begin to tell if she's one who can easily trot, but it wouldn't surprise me if trot is one of the more difficult gaits for her. (I'm comparing her to Sina and Saga in my head. They both CAN trot, but it's not their best gait.) If trot isn't easy for her, why try to change it? (If she can then sure, let her trot some.) Didn't Cheryl say she's 25? I'd bet that's older in horse-years than my 52-human-years, and I know I get a little stiff in my hips. :) >>>Or maybe I'm just not used to seeing a running walk on a horse without a >>>long scopey neck... After seeing walking horses all my life, I had some adjusting to do to get used to seeing the shorter-necked Icelandics do a running walk!Of course, the biggest surprise I've had lately was seeing an elephant rack...I'm still shaking my head over that one! Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
> Look at her go sans bit on a loose rein and I'm thinking she > might be barefoot too. That is what NATURAL GAIT looks like. I don't think Nanna has ever been shod. Some may remember when Nanna won an Open 2 Gait Class at the EIGHA Gaited Horse Show. There were 22 or some gaited horses of all breeds in the class, professional trainers, and top regional riders. Nanna was the only Icelandic at the show. Nanna was barefoot and while I had a bit in her mouth, the reins weren't attached to it or even through the rings (Freedom Bridle). She showed a fantastic range of speed and even won an engraved plaque! Yeah Nanna! I'm so glad she has a great home with Kim! Boy was I surprised when we won! My first and maybe only blue ribbon for a riding class. Nanna won 1st in a costume class at the State Fair one year. I was at the show alone so I don't have any photos from the class. I'd love to see one or even better a video! The judge raved about her after I told him I was shocked that we won. I have one photo that I got a passerby to take after our big win! :o) I'll attach it. I have all kinds of great Nanna stories but most of you have heard them before! :o) Cheryl Icelandic Sheepdogs & Icelandic Horses www.sandcreekicelandics.com <>
RE: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
>>> I just know, in a RW a horse has to be able to reach. RW is my >>> favorite gait. Does it HAVE to have reach, or is that just the ideal? I know they are supposed to overstride with r/w, but isn't the paso llano basically the same gait as the r/w, at least as far as footfalls? And the paso llano doesn't have a head nod - does it have overstride? I don't know, just asking. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.16/1250 - Release Date: 1/29/2008 10:20 PM
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
On 30/01/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm at work and there's limited sound on our computers, but this is a VERY > interesting little mover and shaker to me. I see lateral, and I see > relatively EVEN lateral movement, so not a stepping pace to my eyes. BUT I > don't see the reaching stepping under of the back legs that I associate with > a running walk. Could it be a little running walk without the reach? She's a lovely little mover, but she reminds me a bit of Hreggur. Is there a bit of stiffness in her back end? Does she trot freely Judy? If she's allowed to trot a lot that will help loosen any stiffness issues. Or maybe I'm just not used to seeing a running walk on a horse without a long scopey neck... Imagine that...a nice little running walk... Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://iceryder.net/videogaitnanna3.html I'm at work and there's limited sound on our computers, but this is a VERY interesting little mover and shaker to me. I see lateral, and I see relatively EVEN lateral movement, so not a stepping pace to my eyes. BUT I don't see the reaching stepping under of the back legs that I associate with a running walk. Neither do I see the speed of a rack, or even the slower saddle rack. Hmmm. . . .But, whatever it is, it's really a neat little gait!I'd be inclined to guess slow saddle rack, or the beginnings of a saddle rack. Or a slightly pacy running walk. That said, whatever it is, I don't think I'd fiddle with it! Look at her go sans bit on a loose rein and I'm thinking she might be barefoot too. That is what NATURAL GAIT looks like. -- Renee M.
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Rudy
Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This one is very close to a classic picture. I think it's a to die-for running walk. : ) -- Renee M.
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
> > Here is a photo of Bekka at about 6 mons old. All babies are sweet, but I don't think there's anything cuter than an Icellandic foal. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
I just know, in a RW a horse has to be able to reach. RW is my favorite gait. Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
http://iceryder.net/videogaitnanna3.html >> stepping pace? whatever it is it is awesome. I really like Nanna. > > Nanna is a great horse! We got some very nice videos of her! Did she trot for you? > The first part sounds too evenly four-beat to me to be a stepping pace and > I > don't think it's very lateral. I can say black-and-decker to the sound, > but > then I have no rhythm and am totally musically impaired. :) I think her > head is moving too freely for it to be a saddle rack. There's no > single-foot support phase, at least not that I can see, so I don't think > it's true rack/tolt. So, partly by the process of elimination, I tend to > think either running walk, or a maybe a close-to-square foxtrot. > Whatever, > it looks very smooth and nice. I'm leaving this whole quote as it is interesting to do the elimination process. Good job, Karen. Nanna's gait in this video is flat walk (bordering on run walk), slightly to the lateral. The mare is in a treeless saddle (Sensation), barefoot, and bitless. This is a natural gait for her. I think it's interesting to compare this video to how the Icelandics are ridden by Feldmann, or any other icelandic-style rider / trainer. Here's some points to ponder? What are the differences? Which is more natural? Which style is "correct"? Which style would give more honest scores for evaluations? Which style impacts the horse less negatively? Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
Fon is beautiful and doesnt look old at all... how old IS she?? Janice-- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
stepping pace? whatever it is it is awesome. The first part sounds too evenly four-beat to me to be a stepping pace and I don't think it's very lateral. I can say black-and-decker to the sound, but then I have no rhythm and am totally musically impaired. :) I think her head is moving too freely for it to be a saddle rack. There's no single-foot support phase, at least not that I can see, so I don't think it's true rack/tolt. So, partly by the process of elimination, I tend to think either running walk, or a maybe a close-to-square foxtrot. Whatever, it looks very smooth and nice. >>>I really like Nanna. She is very cute. What saddle is she using? I love the loose rein - and she's bitless too? Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
I really like Nanna. > Janice Me too. She's wonerful. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
stepping pace? whatever it is it is awesome. I really like Nanna. Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
[IceHorses] What Gait / Nanna 3
http://iceryder.net/videogaitnanna3.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] What Gait / Elephant
>> I thought maybe stepping pace, but again, I was expecting pace. >>> A rack can look like a stepping pace if you are looking at the "pick up" of the feet. In the rack, each foot sets down separately, even timing; but the timing of the pick up is lateral; they are moving, picking up, more closely together in time. I used to wonder this: if the lateral pair of feet pick up about the same time, how can they start out together but then become totally "out of sync" during the fraction of a second that they are moving? Obviously, they have to travel the same horizontal distance- otherwise the front end of the horse would get to the destination long before the rear! I've never seen that happen! So, if the front feet don't travel further, what happens? The back feet sort of slide along (not literally sliding...) in an almost straight line just above the ground, while the front feet really DO travel further - but the front feet have more of an arc to their pattern. Does this make sense? I had to freeze frame video to get my head around it. And that's why it's so easy to manufacture the rack in so many horses. What are some tricks? What happens when a horse hollows his back? He tends to lift his head. Is a horse with a horizontal neck position lift his feet as easily as one with a raised head? No, he is more likely to bump his knees with his chin. Tricks to break up a pacey horse into rack/tolt would include putting the saddle too far back, so that the horse hollows his back, raising the hands up and/or using a long-shanked bit, sitting on the cantle, adding bell boots to encourage the horse to fling his legs up, as do putting heavier shoes on front. We see ALL of these in the Icelandic competitions, so that tells me there is a LOT of gait manipulation going on And of course, people are always drawn to breed what wins in the show ring. Unfortunately, cantle-sitting riders, shanked bits, saddles placed too far back, heavy shoes and bell boots are NOT genetic, and those add-ons won't be passed onto the next generation. I think virtually ALL of these manipulations are allowed in the so-called BREEDING EVALUATIONS, except for the heavier weighted shoes in front - I certainly see plenty of loin sitters and tight saddles placed too far back at the evaluations, and a horse who doesn't "lift" his knees will get seriously penalized, with a much lower evaluation score. The whole idea of breeding evaluations is downright scary. Using the criteria they use, we are likely to breed the NATURAL gaitedness out of the horses - those of us who've seen it happen with TWH, Saddlebreds, and now starting even with the RMH, we see a scary similarity. On the other hand, there are horses who are naturally built to rack - it's just in their conformation. Unfortunately, when we look at a horse in an evaluation with so much manipulation, and so much hard riding, it's hard to know what the horse would do without that hard riding, the tight, too-far-back saddle, and the head pulled so hard with the reins. It IS possible for a horse with a RELATIVELY flat way of moving (meaning nothing like the show horses) to rack though - although that seems to me to most likely to be the saddle rack, the version of the rack where the horse has alternating 2, then 3 feet on the ground and the front arc isn't so noticeable to the naked eye - those are the ones who REALLY are hard to tell from pacers, until you get a little practice and train your eyes.This elephant video surprised the heck out of me, because he's doing a true rack - with alternating 1, then 2 feet on the ground at a time. For an animal to balance on a single foot, he has to be moving at a good speed. I think that's the part that surprised me most about this elephant. That's a big critter to be balancing on one foot - but he really was zooming along. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.16/1250 - Release Date: 1/29/2008 10:20 PM
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Elephant
> > In the rack, each foot sets down separately, even timing; but the timing > of > the pick up is lateral; they are moving, picking up, more closely together > in time. I think part of my struggle with identifying photos of gait is that my experience of gait is primarily from riding and that with the one horse. To me rack is 1 -2 3- 4. I can count it in my head and sometimes do. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Elephant
>> I thought maybe stepping pace, but again, I was expecting pace. For some time, there has been the unanswered question: Do elephants run? The definition of "run" being that the subject catches air time. Elephants don't actually propel their bodies in an upward vector when moving fast, so they don't catch air. A rack can look like a stepping pace if you are looking at the "pick up" of the feet. In the rack, each foot sets down separately, even timing; but the timing of the pick up is lateral; they are moving, picking up, more closely together in time. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com <>
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Elephant
> I swear > it looks like he has all support on a single foot a couple of times. > Surely > not...? I sort of anticipated pace, but that's not what I THINK I saw. I thought maybe stepping pace, but again, I was expecting pace. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Elephant
http://iceryder.net/videogaitelephant.html > for my old, slow eyes, but I swear it looked like he was racking. I swear > it looks like he has all support on a single foot a couple of times. > Surely > not...? I sort of anticipated pace, but that's not what I THINK I saw. Yes, right; it's a rack (tolt). Can everyone see it? There is one foot support, indicative of the rack. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] What gait - Runa #2
>I would say canter...I'm almost always wrong on these pictures >though... >Bia > Not this time. She was indeed cantering. Hey! I think I'm getting a tiny bit better at the What Gait? Game Bia
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Elephant
>>>The first part is a walk. second part? He's hauling it, that's for sure. Ok, he's not on the screen long enough for my old, slow eyes, but I swear it looked like he was racking. I swear it looks like he has all support on a single foot a couple of times. Surely not...? I sort of anticipated pace, but that's not what I THINK I saw. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Elephant
> http://iceryder.net/videogaitelephant.html > > Slo-mo included. The first part is a walk. second part? Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] What gait elephants?
Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> kirjoitti: > I have actually watched Gaedinakeppni held on an oval track where the > horse took either the wrong lead, or cross gallop (disunited canter) > on the shorts sides and no-one seemed to mind. That seemed very odd to > me, as a sport judge... According to rules the horse should not get a mark for cross canter/gallop. But it is enough if the horse shows correct gait "for at least one long side", the rest is obviously ignored. Krisse
Re: [IceHorses] What gait elephants?
On Jan 29, 2008 4:36 AM, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A lot of dogs > pace My dog's front legs run and her back legs hop along behind. V
Re: [IceHorses] What gait elephants?
>>> Gaedingakeppni rules say it doesn't matter which lead the horse takes. >>> Which is quite understandable since the horse only needs to show gaits >>> on a straight track so there is no correct lead (if the competition is >>> on oval track the horse needs to show gaits on a long side which is also >>> straight). That's not sufficient information to me for evaluating a horse for breeding purpose. A horse that can't get the correct leads under saddle is not in balance - he might be in pain or scared, he might not be physically mature, might be naturally uncoordinated, he might have a stiff or unbalanced rider, but something isn't right. If you watch horses in the pasture, healthy horses will almost always get the "correct" lead, and will freely change leads when they change directions. Even newborn foals show appropriate lead changes, often seen during their first day of life. If the horse can't get the "correct" lead under saddle, I'd want to know WHY. It's a flag to me that something has been missed or rushed or that he might have a physical problem. Sure, most horses seem slightly one-sided and may initially find one lead easier than the other when they are first learning to balance a rider, but they usually figure it out very quickly when they are strong enough and not rushed. It's not like horses need to be "taught" the correct leads - they just need to be "allowed" the freedom to do what they do of their own free will, beginning during their first hours on earth. The reputable "general purpose" horse trainers in the USA that I know wouldn't consider a horse even "well started under saddle" until they can canter comfortably and relaxed, on the correct leads, both directions. The "wrong lead" itself doesn't actually worry me so much as it flags me that something is amiss. Most 8-10-year-old kids at the local hunter and western pleasure shows can request and get the correct lead - it's not exactly a "haute ecole" expectation. It's just a measure of good, basic horsemanship and a reaonably relaxed, healthy horse. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] What gait elephants?
I've never yet been at a clinic where the Icelander didn't bother about the lead (unless the rider was a complete beginner who had never cantered before or something like that, and even then it was mentioned in theory). This rider had been riding with one of these clinicians, at least a couple of times per year for seven years. She had previously shown her horses some. She was not fearful of cantering - just blissfully ignorant that there is more to riding than "kick 'em to go". Additionally, before we rode, they showed us a video of a "for sale" mare they just happened to have at the farm. She was four, just imported a couple of weeks prior, and they were also taking her to that show, to compete her. (Yep, four years old, and imported just weeks earlier. She looked very depressed to me. A real bargain at ONLY $12,400. sheesh. So much for the old myth that they don't start them before they are 4.5 years old...) One of the other auditors, who had no Icelandic horse experience casually noted, "I notice that the mare is not tracking up in her gaits. Do you not care about that when you ride them?" The same "student" who later asked, "What's a lead?" asked, "What does tracking up mean?" Sigh. I told them I wasn't interested in the imported mare since I live in a risky area for SE, so I stick to domestic born horses. One of the clinicians flat out said that no horse he'd ever imported to KY had ever developed SE, and that the SE risks are way exagerated. Oh yeah, right. He asked where I'd gotten my first horses, and I told him from Robyn at the Icelandic Horse Farm and from Anneliese at Unicorn Valley. He told me that they only have inferior horses...yeah, right dude! The "for sale" mare was narrow-chested and toed-out, and any idiot (at least one capable of defining a canter lead) could see she had bad legs. Melnir, Brunka, Saga, Sina and Bjola have glorious conformation compared to the "superior" import he was hawking that day. I knew then that disreputable "horse traders" exist on every continent and island. The disappointing quality of instruction of the clinic was one thing, but slandering the Ice Farm and Unicorn Valley was just over the top. My life is too short to deal with scoundrels like those two. >>>Sounds like this guy needs shooting! Remember, it wasn't just "this" guy. There were two of them giving this clinic together, both of whom have competed at the international level. Both were "certified trainers" and both were Holar graduates. They both looked absolutely smashing in their riding breeches and tall boots. Beyond that, I'm having trouble thinking of anything positive to say about the clinic - just VERY happy that I didn't take one of my horses for that experience. NO ONE would have ridden my Sina the way they rode that mare - no one. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] What gait elephants?
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:17:02 +0200 (EET), you wrote: >Gaedingakeppni rules say it doesn't matter which lead the horse takes. Which >is quite understandable since the horse only needs to show gaits on a straight >track so there is no correct lead (if the competition is on oval track the >horse needs to show gaits on a long side which is also straight). I have actually watched Gaedinakeppni held on an oval track where the horse took either the wrong lead, or cross gallop (disunited canter) on the shorts sides and no-one seemed to mind. That seemed very odd to me, as a sport judge... Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] What gait elephants?
Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> kirjoitti: > So far as I can remember, not being that experienced with > gaedingakeppni (which is what the Landsmot is) you don't need the > correct lead in canter but the mark is higher if it's correct. > > At the WC (and all FEIF) competitions if you don't have the correct > lead you won't get a mark. Gaedingakeppni rules say it doesn't matter which lead the horse takes. Which is quite understandable since the horse only needs to show gaits on a straight track so there is no correct lead (if the competition is on oval track the horse needs to show gaits on a long side which is also straight). Krisse
