Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
> The herring is not given instead of hay it´s given with hay or pasture grass. > > Regards Malin in Iceland > that is interesting malin cause here there are loose minerals designed to be given for horses only on hay or pasturegrass. In fact one brand, Seminole, has minerals called "grass-plus". janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
>>what choices !? Hayroll´s and pasture >> grass > this weekend I am going to lay an anchovie out in the sun til it dries > and then get a video of me offering nasi and tivar a choice between a > handful of hay or a dried anchovie. Then I will offer some grass or > an anchovie and then a nicker maker treat or an anchovie. we will get > to the bottom of this and settle it once and for all. > Janice-- > yipie tie yie yo yes you get a bottom of what your horses do,but my horses did eat the salted herring and so did my sheep´s to for 8 years ago, after that the price went up so it´s to expensive and also it do smell a lot!! I personally do hate fish smell. The herring is not given instead of hay it´s given with hay or pasture grass. Regards Malin in Iceland
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 05:17:29PM -0600, Janice McDonald wrote: > > shall i try to replicate this with a handful of grass, a tuna salad, and > > stjarni? :) > > yes, video it. have it well documented. open the sandwich and show > the tuna. I'll do the same. ok, if i can find my camera by this weekend i will :) --vicka (who also should take some pictures of her poor unwanted saddle...)
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
On Nov 29, 2007 8:45 PM, Wanda Lauscher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 29/11/2007, Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > yes, video it. have it well documented. open the sandwich and show > > the tuna. I'll do the same. > > How about canned salmon? Would that work? I'm trying to determine if > I want to get involved with this caper. I once gave the crust of my tuna sandwich to Gat and after she ate it she raised her head doing the stallion lip thing -- I got the impression she wasn't too keen on either the dab of tuna or mayo that was touching the bread crust. Maybe it brought back memories of Iceland... V
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
On 29/11/2007, Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > yes, video it. have it well documented. open the sandwich and show > the tuna. I'll do the same. How about canned salmon? Would that work? I'm trying to determine if I want to get involved with this caper. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
> shall i try to replicate this with a handful of grass, a tuna salad, and > stjarni? :) yes, video it. have it well documented. open the sandwich and show the tuna. I'll do the same. Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 04:08:30PM -0600, Janice McDonald wrote: > this weekend I am going to lay an anchovie out in the sun til it dries > and then get a video of me offering nasi and tivar a choice between a > handful of hay or a dried anchovie. Then I will offer some grass or > an anchovie and then a nicker maker treat or an anchovie. we will get > to the bottom of this and settle it once and for all. shall i try to replicate this with a handful of grass, a tuna salad, and stjarni? :) --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
>what choices !? Hayroll´s and pasture > grassin the hard time around 1780 and forward > into the 1800 and longer the people keept the > herring for themself not giving any horse anything > around 1750-1830(little iceage ) the population > of people went from 50.000 down to 25.000 > (starwed to death )and the horses that where left > after it was only 3000 they think and for long > time after that horses was not feed anything from > human hand only the riding/working horse that was > keept in the stable during winter for transportation. this weekend I am going to lay an anchovie out in the sun til it dries and then get a video of me offering nasi and tivar a choice between a handful of hay or a dried anchovie. Then I will offer some grass or an anchovie and then a nicker maker treat or an anchovie. we will get to the bottom of this and settle it once and for all. Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
A > > I´ve SEEN, personally, horses in Iceland eat salt fish from a barrel > > put out for them. > >but what CHOICES were available... like the donner party, they ate >each other :) what choices !? Hayroll´s and pasture grassin the hard time around 1780 and forward into the 1800 and longer the people keept the herring for themself not giving any horse anything around 1750-1830(little iceage ) the population of people went from 50.000 down to 25.000 (starwed to death )and the horses that where left after it was only 3000 they think and for long time after that horses was not feed anything from human hand only the riding/working horse that was keept in the stable during winter for transportation. Regards Malin
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:12:52 -0600, you wrote: >but what CHOICES were available... Good hay or haylage, and grass, and a mineral lick - it wasn´t even bad weather! Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
> stjarni could have gone for my soda or my chips, too, but it was all > about the TUNA. (he normally gets hay, minerals, salt, hay stretcher, > and a hoof supplement.) ok, i am gonna go home and put out some hay and some salted herring. I will get some video of what they choose. also, fwiw, only Tivar and Nasi and Curly Ray will eat carrots, the rest of my horses act like I am trying to poison them with carrots. Only Tivar and Stonewall will eat peppermint. The rest blow at it and back away. so i dont think we can therefore deduce that Tivar loves carrots and peppermints because he is icelandic. I think from my knowlege of him and his habits we can deduce that Tivar will eat anything, not because he is icelandic but because he is a food hog. I bet he would even eat hot dogs and ice cream and birthday cake and I KNOW he enjoys chicken layer pellets a great deal, so we can maybe assume all icelandic horses will choose layer pellets when given a choice between that and hay because one time I caught him going for the layer pellets when there was an entire roll of hay at his disposal... Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 07:12:52AM -0600, Janice McDonald wrote: > > >horse nor asked anyone in a position to know about icelandic practices. > > > > I??ve SEEN, personally, horses in Iceland eat salt fish from a barrel > > put out for them. > > but what CHOICES were available... like the donner party, they ate > each other :) didn't malin just post that the horses also had hay? stjarni could have gone for my soda or my chips, too, but it was all about the TUNA. (he normally gets hay, minerals, salt, hay stretcher, and a hoof supplement.) --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
> >horse nor asked anyone in a position to know about icelandic practices. > > I´ve SEEN, personally, horses in Iceland eat salt fish from a barrel > put out for them. but what CHOICES were available... like the donner party, they ate each other :) Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
I've heard about Icelandic horses, I have NEVER heard the story of the barrels of salted herring promoted as nutritional wisdom until this thread. > oh yes it´s was very common! but do we want to play THAT into a modern-day nutritional trend? Hey, their diet was even organic! when it was still enough herrings just for few years ago 8-10 years we did feed it during winter time as a protein resorse . And hay is still on many farms organic not on my farm thou... > Horses don't eat fish of their own accord. Let's drop this subject and get > sensible. > > Karen Thomas, NC > yes they eat salted herring even thou they have enough hay and at a neighbourfarm they had it out in the pasture beghind the barn for the training horses during the winter they love it and fish oil is feed in every stable I think ,we eat it to D-vitamins!! Regards Malin in iceland
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:37:18 -0500, you wrote: >horse nor asked anyone in a position to know about icelandic practices. I´ve SEEN, personally, horses in Iceland eat salt fish from a barrel put out for them. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
> the donner party were on the atkins diet. Janice > > AHHH!! That is the funniest-in-a-black-humor-way thing I've heard in a long > time! they were and it made them cranky. janice yipie tie yie yo
RE: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
the donner party were on the atkins diet. Janice AHHH!! That is the funniest-in-a-black-humor-way thing I've heard in a long time! Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.6/1150 - Release Date: 11/24/2007 5:58 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
> If you want to get literal, I'm sure the Donner Party consumed some great > nutrients in their infamous winter during the 1840's...but do we want to > play THAT into a modern-day nutritional trend? Hey, their diet was even > organic! What the Donner Party did was a matter of simple survival too... > > Horses don't eat fish of their own accord. the donner party were on the atkins diet. janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
> Vicka, if there's anything Iceland is famous for, it's the "sagas". They > are a people of a great story-telling history. one of the people is an icelander. she's also a professional colleague of mine, and i have no reason to think she's spinning a tale. the other is an american by ethnicity. i have no reason to think she's making it up either. > Horses don't eat fish of their own accord. Let's drop this subject and get > sensible. and i know i'm NOT making up stjarni's lust for tuna fish. for crying out loud, i'm not inventing, nor for that matter proposing this as good nutrition. ii rode an ottb as a kid who loved beer, and stjarni loves tuna fish and bananas. de gustibus non disputandum est. afaict nobody else in this thread has either tried feeding fish to their horse nor asked anyone in a position to know about icelandic practices. --vicka
RE: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
>>> We presented the shrimp to Landi who polished them off in no time flat. I won a very nice bottle of sherry. Gee, I probably could have won a whole stocked wine cellar with the Sundance/mouse incident... Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.6/1150 - Release Date: 11/24/2007 5:58 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
> Horses don't eat fish of their own accord. Let's drop this subject and get > sensible. > > > Karen Thomas, NC Actually, Karen, whereas I agree with you mostly in that horses were given fish out of need, there is no telling what even well-fed horses will eat by choice. Just an anecdote here: I had fed my guests a very nice shrimp dinner. One of my guest did not clean his plate and left some shrimp on his plate (which I don't like because I grew up in Germany after the war - hungry at times and I simply don't like food being wasted), so I told him " eat your shrimp or I will give it to Landi (my stallion). An argument ensued with my guest insisting that horses don't eat meat, fish or any such things. So we bet a bottle of really good sherry and went to find out. We presented the shrimp to Landi who polished them off in no time flat. I won a very nice bottle of sherry. Anneliese in Kentucky.
RE: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
> I am not suggesting that I am going to feed my > Icelandics fish, nor that > anyone needs to but it is definitely not one of the > sagas that they are/ or > were fed fish in Iceland Was it one of the Icelanders, way back, that made reference to it being in the sagas, maybe implying that it was not true that fish were fed to the horses. Judy
RE: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
Hi Karen, >>>My old QH ate a live mouse once - to my horror, I witnessed that event. If you could have taught him to just kill them and not eat them then you would have had one fantastic mouser!! : }} Mandy used to lick the horse's salt block, her pediatrician who also bought Icelandics from us said it was probably why she was so healthy : )) Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
Hi Karen, I think this is a fairly interesting discussion, which as long as it can be done without people being defensive, could be quite valuable. >>>I think a valid point is that horses are herbivores, where humans are omnivores and dogs are carnivores. My father was involved with shipping fish meal to Japan for many years. They fed it to cattle which I am pretty sure are also herbivores - and I know that the feeding of animal products to cows, sheep, pigs has been done causing potentially huge problems - Mad cow etc. Fish meal has been used as a food supplement for many years in feed for the protein, oils etc that it adds. >>>As I said earlier, I have no doubt that there are certain nutrients that can be taken in many forms - some good, some digestible, and some not so digestible. There are also various types of hay that people disagree as to being good for horses. Calcium / phosphorus imbalances in certain types of hay are not so good for horses but if that is all you have to feed that is what you feed, and there is plenty of disagreement about that. >>>Dogs will also catch and eat chickens, but most of us won't knowingly allow our dogs to eat chicken bones. So, even within our carnivore pets, we exercise the necessary precautions. As far as feeding dogs fish or chicken with bones - I do it all the time, as long as it is raw it is very unlikely that there will be a problem. Some may disagree with feeding a raw diet but it is been done by many people with success and overcoming many physical problems with dogs and cats. >>>Just because Icelandic horses HAVE been fed fish doesn't make me believe that they SHOULD be fed fish. I am not suggesting that I am going to feed my Icelandics fish, nor that anyone needs to but it is definitely not one of the sagas that they are/ or were fed fish in Iceland which was the premise being put forth and what prompted me to write. I envy any of you that are eating leftover turkey from Thanksgiving because that is my favourite part. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
Actually, though, in this case, I think an argument could be made that there is nutritional benefit in eating fish. Raising Dobermans, for years, we dealt with a lot of skin issues because Dobes just seem to be prone to them. I think a valid point is that horses are herbivores, where humans are omnivores and dogs are carnivores. As I said earlier, I have no doubt that there are certain nutrients that can be taken in many forms - some good, some digestible, and some not so digestible. Some nutrients can be obtained from plant sources, as well as from animal sources - if the particular nutrient is even needed by the species. Just because Icelandic horses HAVE been fed fish doesn't make me believe that they SHOULD be fed fish. BTW, I owned a dog once that would actually catch fish out of our pond. Seriously. I didn't want her eating fish bones though, so we discouraged it. Dogs will also catch and eat chickens, but most of us won't knowingly allow our dogs to eat chicken bones. So, even within our carnivore pets, we exercise the necessary precautions. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.6/1150 - Release Date: 11/24/2007 5:58 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
Thanks Judy for bringing Ragnar back! I often wonder how he is these days. Cheryl Sand Creek Icelandic Sheepdogs Puppies by CH Vesturhlithar Loki are HERE! Website: www.sandcreekicelandics.com
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
Here's a couple of notes from 1998 by Ragnar about fish: Hello! About using fish as food for horses in Iceland it is not common but some farmers buy salted cutoffs from herring factories and give the outside going horses (a barrel they eat as they wish from!). We think this is very good for the horses, give them fat and lot of valuable ingredients and salt which many horses lack. Fish meal is not common to use as separate food but it is used in most or all feed-mixes we use. The quality of this fish meal is very variable - for cows and sheeps I have heard the "low quality" meal dried in fire burners is good(best) but today the most used meal is of a lot higher quality, dried with low temperature so most of the valuable ingredients are saved! As you say salted herring(not red herring!) or actually it mainly is the offcut from the herring or capelin salted in barrels we use widely as food for sheep and horses! This is specially used for horses who go outside all the winter as a food supplement!! I would belive all kinds of fish was actual to use, but we seek for the fat fish like herring and capelin! I would never risk to give it fresh but as salted it is limited how much they can eat! Dried fish is far too expensive - at least the Icelandic one (40-50 $/kg!). The horses get a barrel to eat of - and while we used tree-barrels they often ate the barrel too! Regards, Ragnar Judy
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
> Actually, though, in this case, I think an argument could be made that > there is nutritional benefit in eating fish. Laree, What I remember hearing was that they filled the barrel with alternating layers of salt and fish. They built a nutritional block (like we use here today) with resources available to them to supply extra nutrition during the long winters. They are a strong people. Learned to survive in a harsh environment with what they had. I have respect for their creative resourcefulness. Cheryl Sand Creek Icelandics Icelandic Horses & Icelandic Sheepdogs website: www.toltallyice.com
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 11:47:06 -0500, you wrote: >I have a horse that will drink coffee a I had a cat (pre-divorce) who used to love to eat coffee grounds, fresh or used. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
> > Just because an animal has eaten something - voluntarily or taught by a > human - doesn't make it meaningful, nutritious, or even desirable. Actually, though, in this case, I think an argument could be made that there is nutritional benefit in eating fish. Raising Dobermans, for years, we dealt with a lot of skin issues because Dobes just seem to be prone to them. The we started feeding them sardines packed in oil and the skin problems would clear up beautifully. Many people we shared this with had the same results and I have thought about adding them to Doppa's diet to see if they helped with her SE but I haven't figured out what the ideal amount would be and if it would be cost prohibitive. Fish oil has been proven to have health benefits - I take it in capsule form myself. -- Laree in NC Doppa & Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the "S" gang) "Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them." - William Farley
RE: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
I have been away so not part of this thread so this may not be relevant but I have seen barrels of frozen herring in many barns in Iceland and they fed the horses 1-2 fish a day as a supplement. This may not happen today. I have a horse that will drink coffee and eat peanut butter crackers. Kola ate part of an orange hay string before I could get it away from her. My old QH ate a live mouse once - to my horror, I witnessed that event. I eat chocolate cake and French fries. My golden retriever (long deceased) ate such things as a bar of soap, a disposable baby diaper, and one of Cary's socks. Emily swallowed a penny once, and like most kids who grew up with animals, I caught her sampling dog kibble once. The Donner Party ate other humans. I don't think Sundance thrived for years BECAUSE he ate a live mouse...maybe DESPITE eating it would be more likely. Just because an animal has eaten something - voluntarily or taught by a human - doesn't make it meaningful, nutritious, or even desirable. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.6/1150 - Release Date: 11/24/2007 5:58 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Icelandic horses do not go fishing on their own accord!
Hi Karen >>>Horses don't eat fish of their own accord. Let's drop this subject and get sensible. I have been away so not part of this thread so this may not be relevant but I have seen barrels of frozen herring in many barns in Iceland and they fed the horses 1-2 fish a day as a supplement. This may not happen today. I also know Mickey and Julie Collins in Alaska and they told me that several of their horses would eat the white fish that was meant for her dogs. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
