Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread Gora Mohanty
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 02:14 +0530, Linux Lingam wrote:
 dear all,
 
 what are the best options for backing up 40 to 60 gb of data per month?
[...]

Decent 500GB IDE drives are going for about Rs. 5K, which takes care of
8-10 months of storage. If you really care for the data, buy two, and
make a software RAID array out of them. Splurge on another Rs. 1.5K
for a good USB/IDE interface, and you have instant access to the
stored data.

Regards,
Gora


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[ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread Tanveer Singh
On 8/1/07, Gora Mohanty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 02:14 +0530, Linux Lingam wrote:
  dear all,
 
  what are the best options for backing up 40 to 60 gb of data per month?
 [...]

 Decent 500GB IDE drives are going for about Rs. 5K, which takes care of
 8-10 months of storage. If you really care for the data, buy two, and
 make a software RAID array out of them. Splurge on another Rs. 1.5K
 for a good USB/IDE interface, and you have instant access to the
 stored data.

 Regards,
 Gora
Isnt something like Amazon S3 more reliable, if the data is critical.
Its auotmatic using shell scripts and cron jobs.
Cost for such data would come to around 15$/month if your total
storage online is around 60GB
Thats around 600rs/month or around 7200/year which is the cost of a
500GB HDD and iits very very reliable.

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay
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Linux Lingam wrote:

 what are the best options for backing up 40 to 60 gb of data per month?
 dvd discs have come down in price, but some of the data-files are
 individually larger than 10gb (home video) and cutting and storing
 sliced versions across discs is rather inelegant.

If you can handle bandwidth cost, go for Amazon's service, might be
helpful. Else buy some HDD and back them up using amanda (perhaps ?)

On a side note, you are becoming somewhat of a niche UseCase - worth a
mention in your LFY column ;)


- --

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Re: [ilugd] usb-disk in happy hunting grounds. please help

2007-08-01 Thread Naresh Narang

--- Linux Lingam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 
 after a few days, reconnected the drive today.
 it made some grunting noises that alarmed me,
 and sure enough, folders and files are missing, or
 icons changed.
 unmounting it safely does not work anymore. 'df'
 shows me the device
 is unmounted though.
 have reconnected and remounted it several times.
 but random folders and files disappear, or often
 nothing appears.


Check this out -

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/193

Regards,
--Naresh


   

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread Vipul Mathur
On 8/1/07, Gora Mohanty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Decent 500GB IDE drives are going for about Rs. 5K, which takes care of
 8-10 months of storage. If you really care for the data, buy two, and
 make a software RAID array out of them.

Agreed. In fact I would suggest that you make the 500GB RAID 1 setup
your primary data storage partition. This would give you protection
against a single disc (out of the two 500GB) failing. Increased read
performance will be a side effect!

You additionally require off-disk backups if you want to protect
against accidental deletion / file system corruption. rsync is the way
to go, as always.

As Gora said, to what extent you go in the backup game depends on how
paranoid you are about your data.

-- 
Vipul Mathur
vipul.mathur[at]gmail.com
http://www.vipulmathur.org/

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread Linux Lingam
On 8/1/07, Gora Mohanty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 02:14 +0530, Linux Lingam wrote:
  dear all,
 
  what are the best options for backing up 40 to 60 gb of data per month?
 [...]

 Decent 500GB IDE drives are going for about Rs. 5K, which takes care of
 8-10 months of storage. If you really care for the data, buy two, and
 make a software RAID array out of them.

wow! they've come down that much in price! neato.

just googled, and discovered 1TB hard-disks are also available, but
dunno if they're available in india yet.

Splurge on another Rs. 1.5K
 for a good USB/IDE interface, and you have instant access to the
 stored data.

so you're saying i could use a usb2 hub, plug in 500GB hardisks
slapped into usb-casings connected to this hub, and run a raid?



 Regards,
 Gora


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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread Linux Lingam

  Take a harddrive of double or more capacity than your
 total data and do a weekly rsync of all your data.
 Simple :-)
 If you tell us the layout for your data (or data
 partition) we can write a script for you to automate
 the backup.


thanks vivek.
i wonder if hardisks, especially when used for such heavy read-writes,
can last 10 years. i've seen my data cds have actually lasted 10
years, but can't recall a single hard-disk that has.

so i guess archive has to be on something else.
more responses to other suggestions in the thread.

thanks everyone for your ideas.

:-)
niyam

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread Linux Lingam
thanks tanveer for your response.

  Gora
 Isnt something like Amazon S3 more reliable, if the data is critical.
 Its auotmatic using shell scripts and cron jobs.
 Cost for such data would come to around 15$/month if your total
 storage online is around 60GB
 Thats around 600rs/month or around 7200/year which is the cost of a
 500GB HDD and iits very very reliable.

hmmm.. maybe a good idea for a secondary backup, to store/archive
using a nuclear-resistant technology, and gives me access from
anywhere on the planet. :-)

uploading and downloading will be a drag though, and i wonder how
secure it is. as raj might point out, any service is 100% secure until
hacked. then it is immediately 100% insecure.

:-)
n

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread vivek khurana

--- Linux Lingam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 thanks vivek.
 i wonder if hardisks, especially when used for such
 heavy read-writes,
 can last 10 years. i've seen my data cds have
 actually lasted 10
 years, but can't recall a single hard-disk that has.

 As backups which is not accessed so frequently, yes
they can last. I have 4GB harddrives with me which are
used as backups since April 1996. I only connect them
to my machine while i have to copy something from
archieves. With proper care HDD can last long really
long.
 Older cds or dvds used to last for years but i have
noticed that newer ones dont. Maybe they have
compromised quality somewhere to bring down the cost.

 Tapes are not that good specially for home use. Ask
the system admins who have to take backups on tapes
and restore content...
 A big harddrive or maybe two or three smaller drives
could be really useful. I would personally prefer two
or three smaller drives. One main backup and others as
backup of the backup. That way even if one disk fails
you have redundant data to fall back upon.

regards
VK
 
 so i guess archive has to be on something else.
 more responses to other suggestions in the thread.
 
 thanks everyone for your ideas.
 
 :-)
 niyam
 
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Re: [ilugd] usb-disk in happy hunting grounds. please help

2007-08-01 Thread Linux Lingam
dear naresh narang,



 Check this out -

 http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/193

 Regards,
 --Naresh

thanks for the link. like the way it gets down and dirty with bad
blocks and shows you how to tackle with them. as my hard disk was
making clicking and grunting mechanical sounds, i just decided to pack
it off and get a replacement under warranty. don't wanna take risks
with data-archivals. the second post on strategies for large weekly
databackups is essentially to tackle this growing problem i'm facing
with huge amounts of data.
i guess it's a matter of time before almost everyone reaches the same point.
the path is simple:
get yourself a hi-rest digital camera, digitize your collection of
music, and buy yourself a camcoder for home-video with a usb2 or
firewire port.
go scrambling for mass storage that scales and is reliable enough to
last your lifetime or move from box to box with you

:-)
niyam



 
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[ilugd] Come one, Come All - Entry is Free!

2007-08-01 Thread Kishore Bhargava
Hi! All,

In case you still don't know about it, freed.in is about to happen. 
Excitement is building up, talks are being registered and to top it off, 
this year's event will be FREE!

Check http://freed.in on a regular basis. Its changing all the time now.

Cheers...Kishore
-- 
The only really decent thing to do behind a person's back is pat it.

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread vivek khurana

--- Linux Lingam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 Splurge on another Rs. 1.5K
  for a good USB/IDE interface, and you have instant
 access to the
  stored data.
 
 so you're saying i could use a usb2 hub, plug in
 500GB hardisks
 slapped into usb-casings connected to this hub, and
 run a raid?

 RAID on usb... think again...

regards
VK


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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread Kishore Bhargava
Vikram Ranade wrote:
 750 GB drives cost 11k each at Nehru Place.
 
 we've just bought a bunch of them for storage.
 Personally I recommend a HDD based software raid 5 array.
 I have 2 such arrays at home totalling 2.5TB and they have been
 working really well for the past 2 years.
 
 We did something similar at work with several 1.5TB arrays for backups
 using rsync scripts to pull backups 3 times a day from client machines.
 

With over 2TB of space at home, you just volunteered to give a talk at 
freed.in ;-)

Please, please, please, Vikram go and register a talk on backup and 
backup solutions. There are actually several really cool solutions with 
large volume managers like Openfiler and many of the rsync based 
thingys. Would be a neat talk.

Cheers...Kishore
-- 
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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread Vikram Ranade
750 GB drives cost 11k each at Nehru Place.

we've just bought a bunch of them for storage.
Personally I recommend a HDD based software raid 5 array.
I have 2 such arrays at home totalling 2.5TB and they have been
working really well for the past 2 years.

We did something similar at work with several 1.5TB arrays for backups
using rsync scripts to pull backups 3 times a day from client machines.

If you want a really cool setup then check out backuppc
it is an automated snapshot style backup system that can work with rsync
to get really good performance (backup speeds).we've been planning to
migrate tho this from our current scripted backup system.it has a nice
web interface and pulls backups from the client machines on an individual
schedule.

Vikram

Linux Lingam wrote:

 wow! they've come down that much in price! neato.

 just googled, and discovered 1TB hard-disks are also available, but
 dunno if they're available in india yet.


   

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread Linux Lingam
good old slashy! lots of different viewpoints.

http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/30/184256

:-)
niyam

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread Gora Mohanty
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 18:58 +0530, Kishore Bhargava wrote:
 Vikram Ranade wrote:
  750 GB drives cost 11k each at Nehru Place.
  
  we've just bought a bunch of them for storage.
  Personally I recommend a HDD based software raid 5 array.
  I have 2 such arrays at home totalling 2.5TB and they have been
  working really well for the past 2 years.
  
  We did something similar at work with several 1.5TB arrays for backups
  using rsync scripts to pull backups 3 times a day from client machines.
  
 
 With over 2TB of space at home, you just volunteered to give a talk at 
 freed.in ;-)
[...]

Erm, doesn't everyone? I have 1TB at home in a RAID-1 configuration. No
muss, no fuss. Debian handled all the crap for me.

Regards,
Gora


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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread Linux Lingam
On 8/1/07, Vikram Ranade [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 750 GB drives cost 11k each at Nehru Place.

 we've just bought a bunch of them for storage.

bunch of 750GB HDD for home storage.
gulp!
i agree with kishore, you gotta give a talk at freed.in Raiding the
kitchen: what's cooking in terabytes at home.

01. seems like everyone's recommending going the hard-disks way, where
the hard-disk *is* the removable media. we live in interesting times.
am confused on whether i should go raid0, 1, or 5. refreshed my
theory-fundas off wikipedia here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

but what do you guys recommend?

02. surprisingly, no one is recommending tape-archive. but makes sense too.

03. the amazon S3 idea is a winner on its own merit. but will have to
psychologically prepare myself: my home personal data, totalling
several gigabytes, is in a digital godown several hundred miles away,
accessible from anywhere with a click, for which i have to pay rent
every month in US dollars.
now we live in even more interesting times.

04. even off-line archive on hardisks is being recommended. however, i
just had a nasty clickety-click on a 3-week old hardisk i was still
filling to the brim with data.

05. what i find unusual is no one is recommending HD-DVD or blueray?
is it out and available in india? at what prices? what is the actual
storage available on those new shiny platters?

06. last week i discovered some companies have started shipping a
Network-Attached-Storage with built-in wi-fi. i dunno if this is
available in india, and at what price. what do you guys think?

incidentally, those keen to check out what made me stumble to this
wifi-NAS, click here:
www.sonos.com and you'll understand why people would need a wifi-NAS
at home. great link for ankur rohtagi. ;-)

wouldn't a wifi-NAS make sense? i know this is a dumb question, but
hey! i'm dumb! would a NAS be as reliable as a RAID5 array,
performance, price, etc...?


thanks for your continued discussions on this topic.
am glad to learn from all of you and appreciate your sharing.

:-)
niyam

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread Gora Mohanty
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 18:05 +0530, Linux Lingam wrote:
 On 8/1/07, Gora Mohanty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 02:14 +0530, Linux Lingam wrote:
   dear all,
  
   what are the best options for backing up 40 to 60 gb of data per month?
  [...]
 
  Decent 500GB IDE drives are going for about Rs. 5K, which takes care of
  8-10 months of storage. If you really care for the data, buy two, and
  make a software RAID array out of them.
 
 wow! they've come down that much in price! neato.
 
 just googled, and discovered 1TB hard-disks are also available, but
 dunno if they're available in india yet.

Price/GB is significantly more expensive for these, at least last when
I looked. You can get them in India, however.

 Splurge on another Rs. 1.5K
  for a good USB/IDE interface, and you have instant access to the
  stored data.
 
 so you're saying i could use a usb2 hub, plug in 500GB hardisks
 slapped into usb-casings connected to this hub, and run a raid?

Erm, no. Sorry for conflating two things. Use RAID-1 for data that
you really care about. It will be stored transparently, with a backup
on a separate disk. The USB/IDE interface is for having large amounts
of data in a mobile medium. Reliability is lower, probably largely due
to physical shock to the drive when lugging it around. Here is what I
currently have, as an example.
Home computer:
  o 300GB drive: No RAID, for data that I can afford to lose.
  o Two 500GB drives in a RAID-1 configuration, i.e., 500 GB of
automatically backed-up storage, for data that I want to preserve.
Portable disk:
  o A 300GB IDE drive, with a USB/IDE interface that lets me plug it
in wherever I go. I was even kind enough to leave 25GB as a VFAT
filesystem for sharing data with lesser operating systems. If I
care enough about the pr0n^Wmovies^Wsome data on this drive, I
copy them to the RAID drives.

Regards,
Gora


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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread vivek khurana

--- Linux Lingam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 8/1/07, Vikram Ranade
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  750 GB drives cost 11k each at Nehru Place.
 
  we've just bought a bunch of them for storage.
 
 bunch of 750GB HDD for home storage.
 gulp!
 i agree with kishore, you gotta give a talk at
 freed.in Raiding the
 kitchen: what's cooking in terabytes at home.
 
 01. seems like everyone's recommending going the
 hard-disks way, where
 the hard-disk *is* the removable media. we live in
 interesting times.
 am confused on whether i should go raid0, 1, or 5.
 refreshed my
 theory-fundas off wikipedia here:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID
 
 but what do you guys recommend?
 
For home use RAID 1 is enough. Nothing complicated.
remember the KISS principle.

 02. surprisingly, no one is recommending
 tape-archive. but makes sense too.
 
 03. the amazon S3 idea is a winner on its own merit.
 but will have to
 psychologically prepare myself: my home personal
 data, totalling
 several gigabytes, is in a digital godown several
 hundred miles away,
 accessible from anywhere with a click, for which i
 have to pay rent
 every month in US dollars.
 now we live in even more interesting times.
 
 04. even off-line archive on hardisks is being
 recommended. however, i
 just had a nasty clickety-click on a 3-week old
 hardisk i was still
 filling to the brim with data.


 Well with the invent of usb casing I count HDD as
removable media.
 As for clicking sound, this could be a problem with
other hardware. I remember that one of my HDD refused
to work on your machine and same clicking sound could
be heard. But guess what, same harddrive is still
working as a main data store on my machine(with
reformatting or anything). And yes, I had also tried
connecting my usb2.0 mini HDD and it did not work,
where as it immediately worked on your brother's
machine and incidentally that HDD is still doing its
job  . So the problem could be in other hardware
instead of HDD.

 05. what i find unusual is no one is recommending
 HD-DVD or blueray?
 is it out and available in india? at what prices?
 what is the actual
 storage available on those new shiny platters?


 Well storage space is required for HD-DVD or Cds or
dvds. One HDD can replace loads of these platters.

 06. last week i discovered some companies have
 started shipping a
 Network-Attached-Storage with built-in wi-fi. i
 dunno if this is
 available in india, and at what price. what do you
 guys think?
 
 incidentally, those keen to check out what made me
 stumble to this
 wifi-NAS, click here:
 www.sonos.com and you'll understand why people would
 need a wifi-NAS
 at home. great link for ankur rohtagi. ;-)
 
 wouldn't a wifi-NAS make sense? i know this is a
 dumb question, but
 hey! i'm dumb! would a NAS be as reliable as a RAID5
 array,
 performance, price, etc...?

 And what makes you think NAS box wont have RAID ?
 For home use why not build a NAS box your self. All
you need is a PC with linux installed (no need to
install gui, normal install with ssh will do, go for
RAID if you are paranoid about data redundancy).
Create one big data partition and make it available
for other machines via samba, simple :-) 
 Oh yes you can attach a wifi card instead of normal
lan and you have wifi NAS. No rocket science here :-)

regards
VK

Engineers normally have problem with every solution. If not they have  a 
solution in search of a problem.

Disclaimer
The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The 
distinction is yours to draw...


   

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Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. 
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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

2007-08-01 Thread lawgon
Quoting Gora Mohanty [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


 
 Erm, doesn't everyone? I have 1TB at home in a RAID-1 configuration.

i dont - the only data i cant afford to lose are my passwords which are backed
up on deadtrees and locked in a safe. I dont even back up mail any more. List
mail is archived anyway, and as for other mail, everyone else backs it up, so I
just have to ask the relevant person for a copy when I want it.



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