Re: [ilugd] Opening up participation in ILUG-D decision making
On 08-May-07, at 10:22 AM, Saurabh Nanda wrote: > (a) turn up for most of the meetings, this is not possible for people outside delhi > (b) give a hand in organizing events (especially Freedel), > (c) are an active face, > > your opinions should obviously have more weightage in the community apart from point (a) this sounds good - in terms of increasing cyberation of things, point (a) is probably debatable even for people within delhi. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Opening up participation in ILUG-D decision making
> > Time and again, there have been expressions on this list that > management decisions in ILUG-Delhi are taken behind closed doors. > While I personally feel that ILUG-D is among the most open > organisations that I have been a part of, and strongly resent such > implications, there must be some truth behind this, as it has been > expressed by many people. Hey Gora, I think it might simply be a case of 'do-ers' making the decisions. Which is good. If you (a) turn up for most of the meetings, (b) give a hand in organizing events (especially Freedel), (c) are an active face, your opinions should obviously have more weightage in the community rather than some lurker on the mailing list hell bent upon discussing pros and cons of GPL/BSD or Emacs/Vi or (insert favourite flame war here). Don't get bogged down by too much process. Get stuff done. Period. PS: Before I get flamed, there will always be cases when active people couldn't make it to a meet where decisions were taken, and they want to debate it on the list. I think everyone is sane enough to listen to the valid points on the list and alter decisions if it makes sense. Saurabh. -- http://nandz.blogspot.com http://foodieforlife.blogspot.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Opening up participation in ILUG-D decision making
Hey, --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Time and again, there have been expressions on > this list that > management decisions in ILUG-Delhi are taken behind > closed doors. Not true. Most of those assumptions might have been made by people who were not aware of how things happen at ILUG-d and the details of the entire decision making process. > > So, rather than griping about it, how about some > concrete Fine job not griping ;) > proposals to change this? Please follow up on the > list with your > ideas on how decision-making could be more open and > participatory, > and I will volunteer to collate the responses, and > post a synopsis. Fair enough. A public agenda as has been mentioned by a couple of other people looks like a good place to start. Video conferencing has its disadvantages - at the very least, meetings where potentially important decisions will be made can be streamed using some free service or the other, using a simple setup. I don't see that being a problem if there's enough bandwidth to go around. Audio recordings have problems - editing them will be painful. Anyway, I see this thread started as a response to one I initiated about the name changes for Freed/Freedel. Well, I justify my question in _this particular case_ because, as I recall, no prior notices were sent out, and the list was out of the loop. Not that this should be taken as the norm by everyone - I know its not, but I found a discrepancy and addressed it. And I'd do it again in a jiffy :) But the important thing is, that it evoked a reaction big enough for steps to be considered and taken, which I think highlights the openness for all to see. Cheers Viksit -- Viksit Gaur viksit at aya dot yale dot edu http://viksit.com Just because you have a mind like a hammer doesn't mean you should treat everyone else like a nail - Terry Pratchett Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Opening up participation in ILUG-D decision making
> On Saturday 05 May 2007 15:34, PJ wrote: > > [snip] > > How about someone just records the audio of meetings with their mp3 [snip] Raj Mathur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Oh Puhleeze! I will not agree to that until someone volunteers to edit > out the unparliamentary stuff, the discussions about food and the > horseplay and personal abuses that go on in the meetings! Yebbut think of the advantages: 1. things obviously transparent, warts and all 2. no one is going to bother to dig up the reasoning behind our decisions if they have to wade through all that crap to understand the reasoning. PJ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Opening up participation in ILUG-D decision making
On Saturday 05 May 2007 15:34, PJ wrote: > [snip] > How about someone just records the audio of meetings with their mp3 > player (3000Rs for a 2GB mp3 player - or maybe do it with a cellphone > or desktop/laptop instead) at an acceptable voice bit rate, and > archives the audio online (eg ourmedia will let you do that for > posterity). It wouldn't be more than 10 or 20MB a meeting and is > pretty easy to do. Oh Puhleeze! I will not agree to that until someone volunteers to edit out the unparliamentary stuff, the discussions about food and the horseplay and personal abuses that go on in the meetings! -- Raju -- Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F It is the mind that moves ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Opening up participation in ILUG-D decision making
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 05 May 2007 14:32, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: > [snip] > > In this particular case though, the renaming of the event was a > complete surprise. Nobody knew that such a requirement was there. > Normally before such decisions, people did discuss things online > before deciding on the final option in the actual meeting. It is > still ok that the meeting participants discovered the need in the > meeting, and also found a solution. But is it wrong to discuss the > decision in the mailing list? Or has the objective of the list > changed - and that we can only discuss Linux here and all ILUGD > related discussions have to happen at the meeting? If that it so, > accept my apologies. You will hear no more from me on such matters in > the future. Hey, the decision still isn't set in stone, you know? I mean, we haven't given up the freedel.in domain name yet or anything ;) While I agree that decisions should be taken by consensus as far as possible, there is a specific issue here: the decision wasn't a consensual one even within the group who were meeting to discuss it. Long story: We are lucky to have got hold of the services of a top-notch PR professional for no cost to us at all. We had very intensive sessions with Rajesh, including verbal abuse between the members. The only thing that we could ALL agree on was that Rajesh was doing a great job and it would be stupid of us to not pay attention to what he was saying. Rajesh was very emphatic on the name change. There was resistance within the group to that too (we all hate change, don't we?), but eventually he convinced us that Freed was a far better identity for the event than Freedel. Not being any good at PR myself, I wouldn't be able to specify the exact arguments he gave, but damn, they did sound convincing at that time! I'm not saying that we should go with what Rajesh says just because he's a highly-paid (though not by us) consultant; nor am I saying that we are stuck forever and ever with the name Freed. If there's enough people who feel that it's wrong, we should seriously reconsider the name change and revert to Freedel. We could even hold one event as Freed and the next one as Freedel if we feel things aren't working out with the new identity. However, please also consider all the ramifications of the name change (as pointed out by PJ) before you make up your mind. And whether it's GNU/Linux or Linux or FLOSS or FOSS or BSD or Hurd, let's not worry about terminology right now, OK? To respond to Kenneth, no, we don't want to be The One And Only FLOSS Event in the country. There are currently no plans for moving Freed/Freedel out of Delhi. Having said that, we don't want to be limited either, so from that point of view Freed is more appropriate than Freedel -- if you're building an identity, why limit it to one city from the outset? Makes more sense to go with an identity that lets you grow and evolve in the future, even in directions that you may not be able to foresee right now. Regards, - -- Raju - -- Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F It is the mind that moves -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGPKvZyWjQ78xo0X8RAh0KAJ4uuwI/Ityri1CMx4DyewBAxE55WwCeM+av zMXJemhL6/uJCsArqk1EzzI= =reYE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Opening up participation in ILUG-D decision making
Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On 05-May-07, at 3:34 PM, PJ wrote: > [snip stuff about recording audio of meeting] > i think what people want is more info on the list - like if someone > is thinking of a name change, why not a terse message on the list > saying 'hey, we are thinking of a name change' A public agenda for the meeting beforehand makes sense. PJ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Opening up participation in ILUG-D decision making
On 05-May-07, at 3:34 PM, PJ wrote: > How about someone just records the audio of meetings with their mp3 > player (3000Rs for a 2GB mp3 player - or maybe do it with a cellphone > or desktop/laptop instead) at an acceptable voice bit rate, and > archives > the audio online (eg ourmedia will let you do that for posterity). It > wouldn't be more than 10 or 20MB a meeting and is pretty easy to do. i think what people want is more info on the list - like if someone is thinking of a name change, why not a terse message on the list saying 'hey, we are thinking of a name change' -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Opening up participation in ILUG-D decision making
PJ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > How about someone just records the audio of meetings with their mp3 > player ogg! I mean ogg player! Honest! [1] PJ [1] For those who are wondering: ogg (properly: ogg-vorbis) is like mp3, but patent-free. Not popular, but better there are very few hardware ogg players around. Creative does one. It's actually pretty hard to get people to accept ogg. ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Opening up participation in ILUG-D decision making
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Time and again, there have been expressions on this list that > management decisions in ILUG-Delhi are taken behind closed doors. [snip] > > So, rather than griping about it, how about some concrete > proposals to change this? Please follow up on the list with your > ideas on how decision-making could be more open and participatory, > and I will volunteer to collate the responses, and post a synopsis. > The one thing that I can think of is video-conferencing, but that > stringently limits the venues that we can use for the meetings, > and requires someone to invest some time in setting it up. How about someone just records the audio of meetings with their mp3 player (3000Rs for a 2GB mp3 player - or maybe do it with a cellphone or desktop/laptop instead) at an acceptable voice bit rate, and archives the audio online (eg ourmedia will let you do that for posterity). It wouldn't be more than 10 or 20MB a meeting and is pretty easy to do. That way Gora can keep writing terse minutes, and refer people to wading through the full audio with warts and all if they want to understand the background behind the decision making. For what it's worth, Gora's minutes are excellent and accurate summaries of the meetings. Plus they make the group seem remarkably professional and focussed. regards PJ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Opening up participation in ILUG-D decision making
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi, > Time and again, there have been expressions on this list that > management decisions in ILUG-Delhi are taken behind closed doors. > While I personally feel that ILUG-D is among the most open > organisations that I have been a part of, and strongly resent such > implications, there must be some truth behind this, as it has been > expressed by many people. If this post is a direct reaction of what I had written in the morning, I would again like to reiterate that I did not imply that decisions are being made behind closed doors. Any society related discussions can and should be made at physical society meetings. Any attempt at online participation will not only complicate matters, but also hamper any real decision making. I would strongly urge you not to consider any option of online participation in such meetings. For society related matters, it only encourages participation from half-interested parties who can mostly only talk but shy away from actual action. I again repeat, my only concern is that whether non-participants in such meetings (whatever the reason behind such non-participation might be) have any right to discuss meeting decisions in this list. It would be a real tragedy if this is discouraged. Many FOSS committees attend meetings and take decisions on behalf of the community. But at the end of the day when they disclose the decisions, they also spend time explaining their decisions to the online community. Is it therefore really too much to ask for? What is it that is making you feel so resentful? In this particular case though, the renaming of the event was a complete surprise. Nobody knew that such a requirement was there. Normally before such decisions, people did discuss things online before deciding on the final option in the actual meeting. It is still ok that the meeting participants discovered the need in the meeting, and also found a solution. But is it wrong to discuss the decision in the mailing list? Or has the objective of the list changed - and that we can only discuss Linux here and all ILUGD related discussions have to happen at the meeting? If that it so, accept my apologies. You will hear no more from me on such matters in the future. - Sandip ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Opening up participation in ILUG-D decision making
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > So, rather than griping about it, how about some concrete > proposals to change this? Please follow up on the list with your > ideas on how decision-making could be more open and participatory, > and I will volunteer to collate the responses, and post a synopsis. Just my two cents, Can we have some kind of discussion bulletin board being available so that the points can be discussed before and after the meet ? Indeed, there are a lot of people in the list and ILUGD who are interested in participating in the activities of the LUG but could not do so. Think if we can have a discussion forum, then the points to be discussed in the ILUGD meet can be discussed by non-meet-attendees and their views and ideas be also taken into consideration during decision making though still keeping the word that "those who attend the meeting have a priority". At least, we can drop the comments saying we had no chance of voicing our opinions before people decided. Secondly, based upon Gora' MoM after every meeting, if people feel that a more elaborate detail about certain aspect of the meeting needs to be addressed to the list, can some one who attended the meeting volunteer to write about it/them to the list ? - -- With Regards - --- Parthan aka Technofreak [weblog] http://technofreakatchennai.wordpress.com [flickr] http://flickr.com/photos/techno_freak [irc] techno_freak @ irc.freenode.net (#linux-india) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGPECGk4vYYS/wECYRAi6aAKCEbots1fSTg6OaJeegFH1t4wMR7QCfTkIa Hp5M01Lz/Viq+YA1YNQeDlM= =BmFQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] Opening up participation in ILUG-D decision making
Hi, Time and again, there have been expressions on this list that management decisions in ILUG-Delhi are taken behind closed doors. While I personally feel that ILUG-D is among the most open organisations that I have been a part of, and strongly resent such implications, there must be some truth behind this, as it has been expressed by many people. So, rather than griping about it, how about some concrete proposals to change this? Please follow up on the list with your ideas on how decision-making could be more open and participatory, and I will volunteer to collate the responses, and post a synopsis. The one thing that I can think of is video-conferencing, but that stringently limits the venues that we can use for the meetings, and requires someone to invest some time in setting it up. Also, please remember that ILUG-D is a voluntary organisation, and any proposal that asks for a significant increase in the time spent by regular participants at meetings is unlikely to be implemented. Finally, certain decisions, such as those involving finances, will always have to be made in private, among office bearers only, though the outcomes will certainly be public. Regards, Gora ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
