Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
Quoting Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 7/30/07, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 30-Jul-07, at 1:55 PM, PJ wrote: Since the starcom UT modem I have at the office is redistributed without source access and GPL text, it seems to be the same kind of violation as skype's violation when skype distributed their voip set without source access and GPL text. if MTNL has not modified the code in the modem, it is under no obligation to provide the source or the GPL text Ok Lets look at it this way.. MTNL gets the right to distribute the modem from Starcom.. Starcom does not have the right to distribute the modem unless it complies with the GPL.. Starcom does not comply with the GPL.. Hence Starcom neither has the right to distribute nor the right to give the right to distribute the software to a third party.. Hence MTNL has no rights to distribute the tainted code.. I don't see where the confusion is.. right - somehow I had assumed that starcom had complied with the GPL. Although I dont think MTNL would have any contract with starcom. MTNL would be purchasing modems on the tender system from some dealer and would be passing the same as recieved to the customer after testing it. So the customer usually gets the modem with original packing and literature. Even then MTNL is guilty of violation of GPL. And so is every dealer/retailer who sells these modems. The obvious solution is to sue starcom. Given the success in the dlink case, I would assume that Harald welte has already issued notice to starcom - assuming that starcom is big enough to show up on his radar. In India, the easiest way of shaking up MTNL is to file an application under the RTI act seeking information as to who is responsible for MTNL getting involved in illegal deals like this. Any Indian citizen can file such an application - and such applications are extraordinarily effective. -- Anupam ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
On 7/30/07, Shiv [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PJ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Both promote/sell devices that run an embedded customized linux. Which leads me to think, If Airtel/Hutch/IDEA etc sell the Motorola Ming (or any other model with embedded linux), which I dont think they do, would they be in violation of GPL? Or would the reseller/retailer/redistributor be in violation (say subhiksha mobile, or the hotspot etc). Personally, I think that since most of the resellers resell the product in original box packing (with the exception of some providers who may re-brand it and hence tinker with the code), they shouldnt be held liable. The GPL does not deal with manufacture.. It deals specifically with distribution.. The terms of the license allow you to do anything with the sources as long as you keep it to yourself.. Hence if you got the modem from MTNL, it matters little who manufactured it. MTNL has a legal liability to comply with the terms of the GPL and provide you the sources. What is also worth thinking about is, if any of the embedded devices with a non-GPL OS is sold, who pays for the runtime licenses? It is in a majority of cases, the manufacturer not the reseller, redistributor etc. Comparing GPL and with other no-free licenses would be comparing apples with oranges.. You really cannot generalize like that.. -- Anupam ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If MTNL is not altering the software, they dont need to give any notice anywhere No. If they're officially distributing the adsl box to outside the company (whether or not as an official company product - it doesn't matter), then the GPL licence must be there. - or source for that matter. I thought a url to the source would be enough before this Skype case came up, but the court decided it wasn't enough. Maybe a real lawyer can step in here and explain this last bit. PJ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
On 30-Jul-07, at 1:55 PM, PJ wrote: Since the starcom UT modem I have at the office is redistributed without source access and GPL text, it seems to be the same kind of violation as skype's violation when skype distributed their voip set without source access and GPL text. if MTNL has not modified the code in the modem, it is under no obligation to provide the source or the GPL text -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
On 7/30/07, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 30-Jul-07, at 1:55 PM, PJ wrote: Since the starcom UT modem I have at the office is redistributed without source access and GPL text, it seems to be the same kind of violation as skype's violation when skype distributed their voip set without source access and GPL text. if MTNL has not modified the code in the modem, it is under no obligation to provide the source or the GPL text Ok Lets look at it this way.. MTNL gets the right to distribute the modem from Starcom.. Starcom does not have the right to distribute the modem unless it complies with the GPL.. Starcom does not comply with the GPL.. Hence Starcom neither has the right to distribute nor the right to give the right to distribute the software to a third party.. Hence MTNL has no rights to distribute the tainted code.. I don't see where the confusion is.. -- Anupam ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: if MTNL has not modified the code in the modem, it is under no obligation to provide the source or the GPL text They have. But that's wandering off the original point. The point is that MTNL is obliged to provide the GPL licence and access to the source (if not the source itself) when they distribute the modem. This is true even if they have not modified the source. [If the GPL licence and access to the source was missing when it reached MTNL, then I'd expect MTNL to be obliged to stop providing the modems, or else they're helping the violators - but that is a separate case, and the liabilities they have would really have to be figured out by looking at the agreement they had with Starcom. And in practice, of course, by the time anything happens in the Indian justice system we will all probably be past caring. Nonetheless, the truth remains that MTNL has obligations to the GPL, and I expect would (eventually, after many wearying years) incur a penalty for neglecting them if dragged to court on this] PJ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 ,--[ On Mon, Jul 30, 2007 at 04:00:53PM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: | | On 30-Jul-07, at 1:55 PM, PJ wrote: | | Since the starcom UT modem I have at the office is redistributed | without source | access and GPL text, it seems to be the same kind of violation as | skype's | violation when skype distributed their voip set without source | access and GPL | text. | | if MTNL has not modified the code in the modem, it is under no | obligation to provide the source or the GPL text quoting from GPLv2 license[1]: - -- begin excerpt -- To protect your rights, we need to make restrictions that forbid anyone to deny you these rights or to ask you to surrender the rights. These restrictions translate to certain responsibilities for you if you distribute copies of the software, or if you modify it. For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must give the recipients all the rights that you have. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights. - -- end excerpt -- | | -- | regards | | Kenneth Gonsalves | Associate, NRC-FOSS | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ | References [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.html Ashish Shukla - -- Ashish Shukla Wah Java !! आशीष शुक्ल weblog: http://wahjava.wordpress.com/ ,= ,-_-. =. | A: Yes.| ((_/)o o(\_)) | Q: Are you sure? | `-'(. .)`-' | A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. | \_/ | Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGrcuYHy+EEHYuXnQRAsVgAJ9nZh5XNFytnUpd6cUEq4DVd2WjQACcCOZ/ QVAVAQ1afaYcdA/w0EZO3AE= =DUZ1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
On 27-Jul-07, at 3:31 PM, PJ wrote: D-link has a record of GPL violations. But they did get thoroughly spanked by a German court for it. (see http://www.jbb.de/ judgment_dc_frankfurt_gpl.pdf). as already mentioned all new dlink products that i have bought have the gpl notice on them - this is the result of the court case. If MTNL is not altering the software, they dont need to give any notice anywhere - or source for that matter. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
On 27-Jul-07, at 2:02 PM, PJ wrote: Come to think of it, this is the same way the MTNL adsl modems are in violation of the GPL. At least, I haven't seen any notice that says GPL source available for them on the MTNL website. MTNL manufactures modems? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
On 27-Jul-07, at 2:21 PM, Shiv wrote: Most of the modems that MTNL gives out (I have one such model) is a Dlink DSL-502T which is an ADSL router with 1 ethernet and 1 USB port. after harald welte sued them, all Dlink products have a GPL notice on them - long live Harald Welte! -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
Lokesh Bhog [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The decision found that Skype had violated the GPL by the way it distributed a voice over IP (VoIP) handset, the SMCWSKP100, which incorporates the GPL- covered Linux kernel in its firmware. Interesting. Come to think of it, this is the same way the MTNL adsl modems are in violation of the GPL. At least, I haven't seen any notice that says GPL source available for them on the MTNL website. The MTNL modem in the office for example runs a 2.6.8 linux kernel on a hardware spec of 235.52 bogomips/6MB ram. It'd be fun to hack away at it. PJ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
Hi, This e-mail has been CCed to Nagarjuna (FSF-India). On 7/27/07, PJ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting. Come to think of it, this is the same way the MTNL adsl modems are in violation of the GPL. At least, I haven't seen any notice that says GPL source available for them on the MTNL website. The MTNL modem in the office for example runs a 2.6.8 linux kernel on a hardware spec of 235.52 bogomips/6MB ram. It'd be fun to hack away at it. Which modem model number? Yes, indeed. Everyone can afford it. Will be useful to do development with it, if we can flash it, or atleast download the kernel image onto RAM and run it from there. Can use it as a platform to learn embedded. Time for some action, and info on a wiki? SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
Shakthi Kannan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which modem model number? / Hi, Most of the modems that MTNL gives out (I have one such model) is a Dlink DSL-502T which is an ADSL router with 1 ethernet and 1 USB port. I have been able to telnet into the router and have been presented with a Busybox shell prompt! There have been other posts talking about this too. There also seems to be an OpenWRT fork that lets you change the firmware on the DSL -502T. Rather than MTNL issue a Source available message, shouldnt it be D-Link which does it? Also, the folks at MTNL wouldnt know whether the Modem that they have contains open source code. On the other hand, It might cause a knee-jerk reaction from them and they might pull out all the Dlink routers and hand out some other brand with VxWorks or something similar!! Airtel seems to be giving out Zyxel Prestige 618 modems. Does anyone know what OS these contain? Regards, Shiv With Warm Regards, Shivkumar www.outbackwifi.com - Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 ,--[ On Fri, Jul 27, 2007 at 08:32:39AM +, PJ wrote: | Lokesh Bhog [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | |The decision found that Skype had violated the GPL by the way it distributed | a voice over IP (VoIP) handset, the SMCWSKP100, which incorporates the GPL- | covered Linux kernel in its firmware. | | Interesting. | | Come to think of it, this is the same way the MTNL adsl modems are in violation | of the GPL. At least, I haven't seen any notice that says GPL source | available for them on the MTNL website. | | The MTNL modem in the office for example runs a 2.6.8 linux kernel on a hardware | spec of 235.52 bogomips/6MB ram. It'd be fun to hack away at it. My Beetel modem (220BX) which comes with Airtel Broadband also runs Linux (tainted kernel) v. 2.6.8.1 on some Broadcom. And I've not received copy of GPL or found any mention of the availability of source code with it. | | PJ Ashish Shukla - -- Ashish Shukla Wah Java !! आशीष शुक्ल ,= ,-_-. =. | A: Yes.| ((_/)o o(\_)) | Q: Are you sure? | `-'(. .)`-' | A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. | \_/ | Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGqgfdHy+EEHYuXnQRAuk8AKCRD+263XqOGyNmMI0lhWVXzXZQuACdGl+f B8F8R+dDm7yrQzH8yeoV62w= =l9Wf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
On 7/27/07, PJ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The MTNL modem in the office for example runs a 2.6.8 linux kernel on a hardware spec of 235.52 bogomips/6MB ram. It'd be fun to hack away at it. Shakthi Kannan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Which modem model number? Looking at it...this one is a small beige box with the MTNL logo on it. The model number is UT-300R2U, and it is made by a chinese outfit called UT Starcom. Maybe MTNL has a policy of handing this one out to corporates. The usual consumer models that MTNL hands out are, as noted elsewhere in this thread, D-link DSL 502T models. They run a 2.4.17 kernel (at least mine does) (see http://www.lug-delhi.org/wiki/ConfiguringNetwork/MTNL_broadband) D-link has a record of GPL violations. But they did get thoroughly spanked by a German court for it. (see http://www.jbb.de/judgment_dc_frankfurt_gpl.pdf). PJ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Skype Found Guilty of GPL Violations
Hi, On 7/27/07, Shiv [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most of the modems that MTNL gives out (I have one such model) is a Dlink DSL-502T which is an ADSL router with 1 ethernet and 1 USB port. I have been able to telnet into the router and have been presented with a Busybox shell prompt! Good. Do you have it documented somewhere online. It will be helpful for others to try the HOWTO, and share their experiences. Rather than MTNL issue a Source available message, shouldnt it be D-Link which does it? If the end-user buys everything from MTNL, they should provide everything to the end-user. The end-user doesn't care with whom MTNL has alliances with, or who actually provides it. On the other hand, It might cause a knee-jerk reaction from them and they might pull out all the Dlink routers and hand out some other brand with VxWorks or something similar!! No need to go all panicky. Just make a request to them that they are required to provide the source code. Or check here, and contact the folks to see if they can help in the process: http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html I think FSF-India can take this forward with the help of gpl-violations.org (if needed). SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - September 28-29, 2007 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
