Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On Jan 10, 2008 11:01 AM, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm, I haven't even looked at the CD yet :) No Skype here, will test out Ekiga when someone offers a video chat. I believe kopete supports webcam for yahoo and msn messengers, if you use them. ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: deah boy, my secretary has been using wp 5.1 from 1989 and refuses to shift from it. She started out on a dos box, then doze 3.1, then So, we have it - your single usecase scenario for Linux is your secy's document typing habit. -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:12:41 +0530, Sriram J [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On 1/14/08, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:43:32 +0530, Sriram J [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Does the idea of open source take precedence over usability. but If you find free software is not as usable as you would wish it to be, you have the opportunity to improve the free software in question by scratching your itch. This is how we get free software to start with. There is a catch here. you can not scratch your itch any way you feel like. only if the free software you write matches 100% with the ideology only then it is accepted. Err, no. When I scratch my itch, it is scratched. Whether or not other people like my solution is immaterial to me; my ideology is the only one that counts when it is I who is doing the work. if you scratch you itch for hardware support in a way that does not completely and totally match the ideology then it will be removed or disabled and you will be where you started. I don't think someone can come to my machine and remove software that scratches my itch. Whether other people use or do not use my solution is, of course, up to them, but, in the meanwhile, my problem has gone away. So i am back to my original question Does the idea of open source take precedence over usability. Free software is about people scratching their itches and making the solutions they create available for other people to use, if they wish. In that context, I have no idea how to interpret your question. I use free software since I find it usable -- I am far more productive with free software than I am otherwise, since I have, over the years, modified it to work as I want it to. Some of my changes have been accepted upstream, others are far too idiosyncratic and tailored to my needs to have propagated far. I do not see there being a conflict between free software and usability; on the contrary. manoj -- Try `stty 0' -- it works much better. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On Jan 12, 2008 7:38 PM, Karanbir Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sriram J wrote: Can some one tell me what is the positioning of linux as an operating system. There isnt one. There does not need to be one. Its used on devices as mobile phones to the largest supercomputer in the world. I think what you need to do is read up a bit on what Linux is and the whole idea of open source :D That is my point . Does the idea of open source take precedence over usability. but never mind my question has already been answered in this list. ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:43:32 +0530, Sriram J [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Does the idea of open source take precedence over usability. but If you find free software is not as usable as you would wish it to be, you have the opportunity to improve the free software in question by scratching your itch. This is how we get free software to start with. manoj -- An American's a person who isn't afraid to criticize the president but is always polite to traffic cops. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On 1/14/08, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:43:32 +0530, Sriram J [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Does the idea of open source take precedence over usability. but If you find free software is not as usable as you would wish it to be, you have the opportunity to improve the free software in question by scratching your itch. This is how we get free software to start with. There is a catch here. you can not scratch your itch any way you feel like. only if the free software you write matches 100% with the ideology only then it is accepted. if you scratch you itch for hardware support in a way that does not completely and totally match the ideology then it will be removed or disabled and you will be where you started. So i am back to my original question Does the idea of open source take precedence over usability. ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On 14-Jan-08, at 1:12 PM, Sriram J wrote: So i am back to my original question Does the idea of open source take precedence over usability. It's simply a matter of personal preference / ideals. I know people who would not use proprietary software even if it out-performs or is more usable than its free software counterpart. On the other hand, there are those who would use proprietary software if it gets the job done faster, and will switch only when the corresponding free software comes upto the mark. -- Anant ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
is it for the general users who want an alternative for windows or the few fakirs[1] who put ideology above all and are not willing to compromise at any cost. Ultimately - yes - the general user. For the fakirs - absolutely yes :). GNU/Linux distros has almost reached a state where it works straight out of the box for most of the common hardware. Ex: Ubuntu, Fedora. It is not wrong to hold on to ideology. Not everybody does that and those who do that are very valuable contributors to the community. People who hold fast to ideologies normally tend to be the hardest workers too and would do anything to promote their ideologies. is linux intended by design to always remain out of the reach of the person who refuses to jump through hoops to get the hardware to work . Like I mentioned before, it works for most hardware. But for those that do not - there are two reasons. Primarily it is because the hardware vendor does not release specs. The second reason is that the hardware that are not supported tend to be not so common devices or brands that does not have enough developer users who can spend time in reverse engineering a driver. i myself back in the days had to switch to windows because i bought an unsupported video card and did not have the money to buy an new one. I can empathize with you. I have been able to get most of the hardware that I use and that I sell to work well with Ubuntu but for those that I could not, I had to give up. I have not had to switch to Windows though :). Cheers Anoop -- http://www.zyxware.com http://www.thondomraughts.com Be the change you wish to see in the world M. K. Gandhi ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 12 Jan 2008, Sriram J wrote: [snip] Can some one tell me what is the positioning of linux as an operating system. who are target audience/consumers of linux supposed to be. is it for the general users who want an alternative for windows or the few fakirs[1] who put ideology above all and are not willing to compromise at any cost. is linux intended by design to always remain out of the reach of the person who refuses to jump through hoops to get the hardware to work . i myself back in the days had to switch to windows because i bought an unsupported video card and did not have the money to buy an new one. The reason you may face issues with some hardware with Linux is that the OS grew organically, not from committee. The first developers of Linux were all programmers. As a programmer, what do you think I'd want to develop first for a new platform, a good text editor that allows me to write more code, or a set of pretty icons that make my desktop look beautiful but don't help me with my job at all? That's not to say that Linux doesn't have beautiful icons, just that programmers like to solve their own problems first. Which is why Linux has one of the most solid IP stacks in the world, and is stable and secure -- I'd be more interested in having a fast, stable, safe system first and an easy to use one (for some values of ``easy to use'') later. Today there's enough momentum and stability with Linux to enable developers to look at other aspects of computing, namely ease of use and aesthetics. Examples of applications that perform as well as or better than their proprietary counterparts include KDE and OpenOffice.org. Agreed, Linux still lags in certain areas (e.g. webcam support), but given the pace at which development is happening, that's not likely to be an issue for long. After all, it still installs and runs on more and more diverse hardware than, say, Winduhs could even dream of :) Also note that a lot of the issues that you have in mind are due to vendors not providing Linux developers with adequate specifications to allow them (the developers) to build drivers for utilising their (the vendors') hardware. If you find that Linux doesn't support your Phillips webcam (because Phillips refuses to share interfaces with the developer community), would you blame Linux or Phillips? If your proprietary Nvidia drivers crash your laptop on suspend or resume, wouldn't you agree that the blame lies with Nvidia for not working with developers and assisting them in developing open source drivers for their graphics cards? The developers are willing but the company is weak ;) So yes, problems remain; some of them are because of low interest in the developers for a particular feature, and some are due to close-minded vendors who cling to some perceived business advantage at the risk of alienating a growing part of their market. But keep writing, at least we have a great support infrastructure (voted the best in the world a few years ago :) Regards, - -- Raju - -- Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ Freedom in Technology Software || February 2008 || http://freed.in/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHiGhiyWjQ78xo0X8RAsDBAJ4uXg3wP1cUXSBIt8Ma63QUmVIOtwCfa3HA eJkd8AzcZuL3httX5d3l1gM= =I7Bo -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On 12-Jan-08, at 12:42 PM, Raj Mathur wrote: i myself back in the days had to switch to windows because i bought an unsupported video card and did not have the money to buy an new one. The reason you may face issues with some hardware with Linux is that the OS grew organically, not from committee. The first developers of Linux were all programmers. you mean other operating systems were not developed by programmers? Or that the current developers of Linux are not programmers? As a programmer, what do you think I'd want to develop first for a new platform, a good text editor that allows me to write more code, or a set of pretty icons that make my desktop look beautiful but don't help me with my job at all? there are many kinds of programmers. And many programmers *need* those icons to help them in their job. They aren't all sitting around coding in vi. Significant number of them use macs. It is not that they didn't want icons, or that they didn't need all the ease of use - it is just that the os was evolving - and is still evolving. And new products are, by their nature, crude. Today there's enough momentum and stability with Linux to enable developers to look at other aspects of computing, namely ease of use and aesthetics. ease of use and aesthetics are fundamental to computing - not some frills to be added on. But definition of ease of use and aesthetics differ. Most people dont understand the difference between 'ease of use' and 'familiarity'. A windoze user finds windows easy to use because he is familiar with it. Accustomed to it. I have seen people for whom linux was their first OS totally bewildered when trying to negotiate windows. They say mac interface is easy to use - but even after a year and a half using it, I still struggle to do things that are dead simple in linux. I also struggle the few times I am forced to use windows, but the interface that drives me nuts is gnome. Also note that a lot of the issues that you have in mind are due to vendors not providing Linux developers with adequate specifications to allow them (the developers) to build drivers for utilising their (the vendors') hardware. why should they? They are in business to make money. Our job is to convince them that releasing their specs will help them make more money If you find that Linux doesn't support your Phillips webcam (because Phillips refuses to share interfaces with the developer community), would you blame Linux or Phillips? I would blame linux If your proprietary Nvidia drivers crash your laptop on suspend or resume, wouldn't you agree that the blame lies with Nvidia for not working with developers and assisting them in developing open source drivers for their graphics cards? The developers are willing but the company is weak ;) the company wants to be strong - and will support linux when they realise that 'linux compatible' means something to the customer - not before So yes, problems remain; some of them are because of low interest in the developers for a particular feature, and some are due to close-minded vendors who cling to some perceived business advantage at the risk of alienating a growing part of their market. But keep writing, at least we have a great support infrastructure (voted the best in the world a few years ago :) true -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ Foss conference for the common man: http://registration.fossconf.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
Sriram J wrote: Can some one tell me what is the positioning of linux as an operating system. There isnt one. There does not need to be one. Its used on devices as mobile phones to the largest supercomputer in the world. I think what you need to do is read up a bit on what Linux is and the whole idea of open source :D who are target audience/consumers of linux supposed to be. everyone who can use it. is linux intended by design to always remain out of the reach of the person who refuses to jump through hoops to get the hardware to work . I had to jump through no hoops to get my hardware working - I have 8 machines here at home, and 3 laptops. Also, if your statement was true - OSX would never had had a future, they support a much much smaller subset of hardware than Linux does - yet its gone from 3% to 7% of all Personal users ( not sure where the number came from, it was quoted at a recent meeting at work, correct me if I am wrong on that ). i myself back in the days had to switch to windows because i bought an unsupported video card and did not have the money to buy an new one. back in the day, I used to use os/2 since it gave me the best serial comms and tcp/ip support to get online. Ofcourse that was 1994/5 :D things have sort of moved on since. -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On 12-Jan-08, at 7:34 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote: you mean other operating systems were not developed by programmers? Or that the current developers of Linux are not programmers? Other operating systems are not designed by programmrs, no. For the mainstream player definitions of 'Other'. Most of them are designed by a committee against what they interpret to be saleable or marketable features. are you sure? I know hurd was designed by committee - but what of various flavours of unix and bsd? I was always under the impression that they sort of grew - and were grown by programmers. And I dont think even dos was designed by a committee. btw, talking of ease of use and icons etc, I remember redhat 5.x had a much better desktop and was much easier to use than the current kde and gnome desktops - and nothing wrong with the icons either. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ Foss conference for the common man: http://registration.fossconf.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: On 12-Jan-08, at 7:34 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote: you mean other operating systems were not developed by programmers? Or that the current developers of Linux are not programmers? Other operating systems are not designed by programmrs, no. For the mainstream player definitions of 'Other'. Most of them are designed by a committee against what they interpret to be saleable or marketable features. are you sure? I know hurd was designed by committee - but what of various flavours of unix and bsd? I was always under the impression I am unaware of any other flavour of Unix or BSD that supports as much hardware as Linux does, nor one that has as much market penetration to figure in the mainstream OS's - So I am not sure what your point here is.[1] that they sort of grew - and were grown by programmers. And I dont think even dos was designed by a committee. btw, talking of ease of use and icons etc, I remember redhat 5.x had a much better desktop and was much easier to use than the current kde and gnome desktops - and nothing wrong with the icons either. Redhat 5 ? as in from the late 90's ? Surely that your personal opinion rather than verifiable fact. - KB [1] - Hurd ? is that even anywhere near usable anywhere in the real world ??? -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ GnuPG Public Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
WHICH MAKE IS THIS CAMERA PL. TELL ME AND IF POSSIBLE SHOP NAME ALSO . The make is Quantum. Raj's first post on this thread gave detailed specifications. It is widely available from any number of shops in Nehru Place. Vikas ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On 13-Jan-08, at 6:26 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote: use and icons etc, I remember redhat 5.x had a much better desktop and was much easier to use than the current kde and gnome desktops - and nothing wrong with the icons either. Redhat 5 ? as in from the late 90's ? Surely that your personal opinion rather than verifiable fact. redhat 5 had a package manager - yes, graphical. It had linuxconf - from setting up aliases to ethernet cards, users blah blah. Great gui. Actually it was 5.2 that had all the goodies. It ran on 32 MB RAM. And it ran wordperfect 5.1 perfectly under dosemu. It had a real good filemanager -yes, better than windows explorer. I have the cds, so if you want to come and verify it - be my guest. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ Foss conference for the common man: http://registration.fossconf.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: redhat 5 had a package manager - yes, graphical. It had linuxconf - from setting up aliases to ethernet cards, users blah blah. Great Too bad it does not install on modern day hardware :D Also, you seem to think Linuxconf from those days was the best way to do things ? I haveto disagree. Linuxconf was a piece of crap software, badly written and hard to manage or even hack your own stuff into. So much so that its been more than once abandoned by its authors. gui. Actually it was 5.2 that had all the goodies. It ran on 32 MB RAM. And it ran wordperfect 5.1 perfectly under dosemu. It had a real I have, just like pretty much most of the world, no use for Wordperfect. good filemanager -yes, better than windows explorer. I have the cds, so if you want to come and verify it - be my guest. Compared to what window manager ? Can it compete in a user experience to todays Windows ? Or are you still living in a time warp and only want to compare notes with what 'has been' ? -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ GnuPG Public Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On 13-Jan-08, at 8:56 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote: Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: redhat 5 had a package manager - yes, graphical. It had linuxconf - from setting up aliases to ethernet cards, users blah blah. Great Too bad it does not install on modern day hardware :D Also, you seem to think Linuxconf from those days was the best way to do things ? I haveto disagree. Linuxconf was a piece of crap software, badly written and hard to manage or even hack your own stuff into. So much so that its been more than once abandoned by its authors. linuxconf was fine until RH 7 - when it got broke gui. Actually it was 5.2 that had all the goodies. It ran on 32 MB RAM. And it ran wordperfect 5.1 perfectly under dosemu. It had a real I have, just like pretty much most of the world, no use for Wordperfect. deah boy, my secretary has been using wp 5.1 from 1989 and refuses to shift from it. She started out on a dos box, then doze 3.1, then redhat 5.2 with dosemu - unfortunately when I tried wp in dosemu in later versions of redhat it didnt work fully, so now she is on doze 98 in dos mode. I am trying to get all the keybindings to work under wine in mandriva, in which case I will shift her back to the good and true distro good filemanager -yes, better than windows explorer. I have the cds, so if you want to come and verify it - be my guest. Compared to what window manager ? Can it compete in a user experience to todays Windows ? Or are you still living in a time warp and only want to compare notes with what 'has been' ? frankly speaking, I dont see any difference between the kde desktop I have today with what I had in rh 5.2. Of course I am an old guy and my needs are simple, so maybe it doesnt count. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ Foss conference for the common man: http://registration.fossconf.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
Anand Shankar wrote: On Jan 10, 2008 10:08 AM, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bought a webcam yesterday, thought I'd share the experience... Unfortunately the webcams that seem to work well with Linux (at least according to Google) seem to be pretty high priced -- Rs 4000+. Thats right - This has been putting me off for buying a webcam for years!! But these devices are supporting USB Video Class, [UVC] which supposedly do not bring up issues like this I burnt my hand recently after buying a $90 Logitech quickcam pro or something. As my bad luck turned out, this needed the exact driver which was pulled out from the Linux kernel in a big public spat [1]. My bad, I should have checked before that flash of impulsive buying. I had to donate the cam to my brother who happily runs it on his XP (blech). [1] http://lwn.net/Articles/99615/ Some years back, I did get a logitech quickcam express working fine. http://blog.sandipb.net/2004/11/28/video-conferencing-on-linux/ - Sandip ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
I burnt my hand recently after buying a $90 Logitech quickcam pro or something. As my bad luck turned out, this needed the exact driver which was pulled out from the Linux kernel in a big public spat [1]. My bad, I should have checked before that flash of impulsive buying. I had to donate the cam to my brother who happily runs it on his XP (blech). [1] http://lwn.net/Articles/99615/ Can some one tell me what is the positioning of linux as an operating system. who are target audience/consumers of linux supposed to be. is it for the general users who want an alternative for windows or the few fakirs[1] who put ideology above all and are not willing to compromise at any cost. is linux intended by design to always remain out of the reach of the person who refuses to jump through hoops to get the hardware to work . i myself back in the days had to switch to windows because i bought an unsupported video card and did not have the money to buy an new one. [1] Definitions of *fakir* on the Web A performer of seemingly miraculous feats (such as firewalking, snake charming and lying on a bed of nails) ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On Jan 10, 2008 10:08 AM, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Bought a webcam yesterday, thought I'd share the experience...
Unfortunately the webcams
that seem to work well with Linux (at least according to Google) seem
to be pretty high priced -- Rs 4000+.
Thats right - This has been putting me off for buying a webcam for
years!! But these devices are supporting USB Video Class, [UVC] which
supposedly do not bring up issues like this
BTW, note that all webcams reporting USB ID 0ac8:303b aren't the same.
Some will work, some may not, so be sure to test your cam before you
buy for use with Linux.
Who will let u test before buy? Its quite shocking all webcams
reporting USB ID 0ac8:303b aren't the same.
Some will work, some may not I believed it the other way and still
can't understand why?
Another thing to investigate: I was thinking of using a SONY Handycam
as a webcam, which says so prominently in their brochure that it
supports USB Video Streaming - actually does not do, just shows up as
USB Storage device. I wonder if any of their proprietary drivers does
some magic, but I certainly expect that if these Handycams are UVC
compliant they can be used as Webcams. Could'nt confirm this - as I
do'nt have access to a SONY Handycam. Can some one confirm this??
The test for finding a device is UVC supported or not is as under:
lsusb -d {Device_Id eg 046d:08cb} -v | grep 14 Video
If your device is a UVC device, you should see a number of lines that
look like this:
bFunctionClass 14 Video
bInterfaceClass14 Video
bInterfaceClass14 Video
bInterfaceClass14 Video
In this case the Linux UVC driver should recognize your camera when
you plug it in.
If there are no such lines, your device is not a UVC device.
Unfortunately my OLYMPUS digital camera which can capture video and
has a USB port, does'nt display any of these lines. I believe one has
to have this if he needs to do a USB Video Streaming.
I want to be corrected if I am wrong, else I might be forced to buy
the costlier webcam.
anand
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Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On Thursday 10 Jan 2008, Anand Shankar wrote:
On Jan 10, 2008 10:08 AM, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
BTW, note that all webcams reporting USB ID 0ac8:303b aren't the
same. Some will work, some may not, so be sure to test your cam
before you buy for use with Linux.
Who will let u test before buy? Its quite shocking all webcams
reporting USB ID 0ac8:303b aren't the same.
Some will work, some may not I believed it the other way and still
can't understand why?
Hmm, I may have been wrong there. The other camera (which I borrowed
from Prof Andrew Lynn and which doesn't work) shows USB ID 0ac8:305b,
which confused me. My bad.
Another thing to investigate: I was thinking of using a SONY Handycam
as a webcam, which says so prominently in their brochure that it
supports USB Video Streaming - actually does not do, just shows up as
USB Storage device. I wonder if any of their proprietary drivers does
some magic, but I certainly expect that if these Handycams are UVC
compliant they can be used as Webcams. Could'nt confirm this - as I
do'nt have access to a SONY Handycam. Can some one confirm this??
The test for finding a device is UVC supported or not is as under:
lsusb -d {Device_Id eg 046d:08cb} -v | grep 14 Video
If your device is a UVC device, you should see a number of lines that
look like this:
bFunctionClass 14 Video
bInterfaceClass14 Video
bInterfaceClass14 Video
bInterfaceClass14 Video
In this case the Linux UVC driver should recognize your camera when
you plug it in.
If there are no such lines, your device is not a UVC device.
That's true, but it's only part of the story. There any number of
non-UVC webcams that work under Linux. These non-UVC webcams
(including mine) will not pass the test that you have given above, but
will still work fine. The UVC requirement, to the best of my
knowledge, is only required if you insist on using the Linux UVC
drivers; using another driver is as good in most cases.
Unfortunately my OLYMPUS digital camera which can capture video and
has a USB port, does'nt display any of these lines. I believe one has
to have this if he needs to do a USB Video Streaming.
See above: you don't NEED a UVC device, just the Linux drivers for your
camera. Judicious Googling would help, though the first-cut search I
did seems to indicate that you won't be able to use your digicam as a
webcam under Linux. Let us know if that changes.
Regards,
-- Raju
--
Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/
Freedom in Technology Software || February 2008 || http://freed.in/
GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F
PsyTrance Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves
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Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
WHICH MAKE IS THIS CAMERA PL. TELL ME AND IF POSSIBLE SHOP NAME ALSO . REGARDS GOPAL On Jan 10, 2008 11:01 AM, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 10 Jan 2008, Vikas Rawal wrote: Cost: Rs 650 Just for the record, last week I bought it from Nehru Place for Rs. 475. OK, if I'd bought it from anyone except Amit I'd be screaming at him now. However I haven't had to spend a single paisa maintaining my system for the past 3 years thanks to him, so I don't grudge him the extra cash :) It works pretty much straight out of the box. Works fine with skype. With Ekiga, there was some lag in the video but I have not tested it much. In fact the driver CD provided with the camera has a penguin printed on it and mentioned that linux is supported. I did not see what is inside that CD because the camera seemed to work fine without it. Hmm, I haven't even looked at the CD yet :) No Skype here, will test out Ekiga when someone offers a video chat. Regards, -- Raju -- Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ Freedom in Technology Software || February 2008 || http://freed.in/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ -- GOPAL MURARKA MURARKA BROTHERS-INDIA M-919335028890,919415034350 ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
Cost: Rs 650 Just for the record, last week I bought it from Nehru Place for Rs. 475. It works pretty much straight out of the box. Works fine with skype. With Ekiga, there was some lag in the video but I have not tested it much. In fact the driver CD provided with the camera has a penguin printed on it and mentioned that linux is supported. I did not see what is inside that CD because the camera seemed to work fine without it. Vikas ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On Thursday 10 Jan 2008, Vikas Rawal wrote: Cost: Rs 650 Just for the record, last week I bought it from Nehru Place for Rs. 475. OK, if I'd bought it from anyone except Amit I'd be screaming at him now. However I haven't had to spend a single paisa maintaining my system for the past 3 years thanks to him, so I don't grudge him the extra cash :) It works pretty much straight out of the box. Works fine with skype. With Ekiga, there was some lag in the video but I have not tested it much. In fact the driver CD provided with the camera has a penguin printed on it and mentioned that linux is supported. I did not see what is inside that CD because the camera seemed to work fine without it. Hmm, I haven't even looked at the CD yet :) No Skype here, will test out Ekiga when someone offers a video chat. Regards, -- Raju -- Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ Freedom in Technology Software || February 2008 || http://freed.in/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
