Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Adam Sjøgren]

Björn writes:

> Everything that doesn't involve things that need threading or should run
> in the background otherwise ;D

They should make some faster CPU's instead of all those multi-core
shenanigans! ;-)

> E.g. Gnus fetching articles to slow or indexing/searching of Mails.

I use notmuch to index and search email in Gnus, it works well - and
fast, as it's using Xapian.


  Best regards,

Adam

-- 
 "I need someone to throw blue sky at me"   Adam Sjøgren
   a...@koldfront.dk

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Björn Bidar]

Adam Sjøgren  writes:

>> NTTP/Game won't work as good outside of Emacs, the user might use other
>> clients besides Emacs for Emails.
>
> That goes without saying, everything works better inside Emacs.

Everything that doesn't involve things that need threading or should run
in the background otherwise ;D

E.g. Gnus fetching articles to slow or indexing/searching of Mails.

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Emanuel Berg]

Björn Bidar wrote:

>>> Subscribing this way should work on all lists that contain
>>> the appropriate mail headers.
>>
>> https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Gmane
>
> Not necessarily every mailinglists is on Gmane, it depends
> on the users preference what he might choose. NTTP/Game
> won't work as good outside of Emacs, the user might use
> other clients besides Emacs for Emails.

I don't think so.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Adam Sjøgren]

Björn writes:

> Not necessarily every mailinglists is on Gmane, it depends on the users
> preference what he might choose.

True. However, most mailing lists can be added to Gmane.

> NTTP/Game won't work as good outside of Emacs, the user might use other
> clients besides Emacs for Emails.

That goes without saying, everything works better inside Emacs.


  ;-),

   Adam

-- 
 "Så kommer der omkvæd på. Og så skal man forklare  Adam Sjøgren
  omkvædet. Det er det værste."a...@koldfront.dk

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Björn Bidar]

Emanuel Berg  writes:

>> Subscribing this way should work on all lists that contain
>> the appropriate mail headers.
>
> https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Gmane

Not necessarily every mailinglists is on Gmane, it depends on the users
preference what he might choose.
NTTP/Game won't work as good outside of Emacs, the user might use other
clients besides Emacs for Emails.

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Björn Bidar]

Emanuel Berg  writes:

>> Subscribing this way should work on all lists that contain
>> the appropriate mail headers.
>
> https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Gmane

Not necessarily every mailinglists is on Gmane, it depends on the users
preference what he might choose.
NTTP/Game won't work as good outside of Emacs, the user might use other
clients besides Emacs for Emails.

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Emanuel Berg]

Björn Bidar wrote:

>>> Did I miss something or do you have any suggestions?
>>
>> Just general way. Check here: 
>
> With Gnus-Mailinglist-Mode you also can all
> gnus-mailing-list-subscribe do to do the same by pressing
> C-c C-n s.
>
> Subscribing this way should work on all lists that contain
> the appropriate mail headers.

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Gmane

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Björn Bidar]

Byung-Hee HWANG  writes:

>> Did I miss something or do you have any suggestions?
>
> Just general way. Check here: 

With Gnus-Mailinglist-Mode you also can all gnus-mailing-list-subscribe
do to do the same by pressing C-c C-n s.

Subscribing this way should work on all lists that contain the
appropriate mail headers.

Br,

Björn

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Eric S Fraga]

On Tuesday, 12 Apr 2022 at 19:53, Durand via "Announcements and discussions for 
GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)" wrote:
> In particular, I am trying to subscribe to the following mailing list
> .  But I don't know how
> to do so in Gnus.

All you need to do is click on the subscribe link on that page (top
left) and it will add your email address to the mailing list, IIUC.  The
subscription link is simply a "mailto:; link.

-- 
Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.2 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.3

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Eric S Fraga]

The impression I have is that you wish to treat a mailing list as a
newsgroup.  Is this correct?  I just wish to clarify as these are two
very different animals.

A mailing list consists of a list of email addresses to which all
contributions are sent.  That's it.  There may be an archive for the
contents of the list.  There is no "server" per se.

What is it about the mailing list that you do not like or wish it would
do differently?

In gnus, you can split any emails that go to a specific list to a
different group and therefore treat it like a newsgroup in that all the
articles will be in the same place.

HTH,
eric

-- 
Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.2 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.3

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)]

황병희 wrote:

>> My first harddisk was 40 MB [...]
>
> Just impressed over whole story. You are stable man Adam!

His first computer didn't have a disk ...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[황병희]

Dear Adam,

Adam Sjøgren  writes:

> Byung-Hee writes:
>
>> Adam Sjøgren  writes:
>
>>> Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days? You can
>>> store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes.
>
>> Adam, please give me more example. Maybe i need this strategy...
>
> I was just thinking about how small mailing list emails are compared to
> how huge harddisks are these days.
>
> My first harddisk was 40 MB, my laptop today has 1.5 TB of SSD. That's
> more than 39000x larger. I definitely haven't been writing/receiving
> 39000x more emails. I have 396K emails in ~/Mail currently - they take
> up 11 GB, that's ~a 140th of the available space.
>
> In Feedbase I have 3.3 million articles currently, the PostgreSQL table
> takes up around 5.4 GB on disk.
>
> So I wasn't thinking of any specific strategy, storage spaces has just
> grown much faster than email size.
>
> PostgreSQL (unsurprisingly) is more efficient than a-file-per-article by
> quite a bit, though :-)
>
>
>   Best regards,
>
> Adam

Just impressed over whole story. You are stable man Adam!

Thanks for share good article ^^^

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

> Mail isn't such a good example as it all depends if you get
> attachments - how often, and how big.

I agree with you Emanuel!

> News is a better example. (No binaries LOL.)
>
> Here you go, friend:
>
> $ ls ~/News/**/*(.) | wc -l
> 14332
>
> $ du -hs News
> 204M  News

Good!

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Adam Sjøgren]

Byung-Hee writes:

> Adam Sjøgren  writes:

>> Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days? You can
>> store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes.

> Adam, please give me more example. Maybe i need this strategy...

I was just thinking about how small mailing list emails are compared to
how huge harddisks are these days.

My first harddisk was 40 MB, my laptop today has 1.5 TB of SSD. That's
more than 39000x larger. I definitely haven't been writing/receiving
39000x more emails. I have 396K emails in ~/Mail currently - they take
up 11 GB, that's ~a 140th of the available space.

In Feedbase I have 3.3 million articles currently, the PostgreSQL table
takes up around 5.4 GB on disk.

So I wasn't thinking of any specific strategy, storage spaces has just
grown much faster than email size.

PostgreSQL (unsurprisingly) is more efficient than a-file-per-article by
quite a bit, though :-)


  Best regards,

Adam

-- 
 "Wandering stars   Adam Sjøgren
  For whom it is reserved  a...@koldfront.dk
  The blackness of darkness, forever"

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Adam Sjøgren]

Durand writes:

> I was imagining that this is easily abused, e.g. some user can make up
> a plethora of mailing lists, and then blow the gmane server up by
> subscribing to a new list every 10 seconds, say.

Every subscription takes human interaction to complete, so there is a
"natural" filter in place.


  Best regards,

Adam

-- 
 "Python looks to me like the illegitimate spawn of Adam Sjøgren
  C and BASIC, but then I used to program in 6502  a...@koldfront.dk
  machine code so what do I know ..."

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)]

Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:

>> Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days?
>> You can store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes.
>
> Adam, please give me more example. Maybe i need this
> strategy ...

Mail isn't such a good example as it all depends if you get
attachments - how often, and how big.

News is a better example. (No binaries LOL.)

Here you go, friend:

$ ls ~/News/**/*(.) | wc -l
14332

$ du -hs News
204MNews

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

Adam Sjøgren  writes:

> (...thanks...)
> Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days? You can
> store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes.
>

Adam, please give me more example. Maybe i need this strategy...

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)]

Durand via "Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet 
newsreader (in English)" wrote:

>>> I hesitate to do this because I don't want to store the
>>> mailing list in my mail inbox.
>>
>> What people usually do is to "split" (filter) email for
>> a mailing list into a separate "group" (folder).
>
> I have tried to play with splitting mails using some simple
> sieve scripts. It is indeed fun. :)

I don't understand why technologist Sjøgren tells you this but
it isn't because he thinks it is a good idea. And using
makeshift scripts is an even worse idea.

As for what is fun ... I think Gnus and Gmane are the most fun
parts of Emacs except programming, but one can't be on top of
one's game 24/7 (and one doesn't want that, either). And Emacs
is the most fun program in the Unix world. And Unix is the
most fun OS and also the most versatile and the fastest that
can run on a computer. And a computer is the most fun you can
have using the world's best software running on a machine one
can acquire practically speaking zero bucks with a bit of
ingenuity. So yes - to me it's fun enough!

Scripts are also fun tho :)


> Indeed. That is just some hypothetical (and silly) question.
> The purpose of mentionning it is to show that I am not in
> control of the process, though it is not a very
> practical issue.

There is no process to be in control of, it is all automated.
You are in control of what you read and write. The superior
interface gives you more control, better control. Sometimes it
is so good and fast you don't even have time to think what you
say, so you say a bunch of stupid things to you dear colleagues
all over the world. _That_ is the amount of control you get
with Gnus and Gmane!

> Indeed. That is why I think I am not in control: I cannot
> reverse some actions initiated by me.

Ah, you mean like could edit a forum post in the golden days?

  EDIT: typo

LOL :)

You can't edit but you can send a second post and say, "Dear
incal, I'm sorry to have wasted your time with my ignorant
questions, I should have done like you said and just tested
it, it is all clear now and I agree my previous ways were an
embarrassment to the sport. I wish I could edit all those posts
and delete my questions but as you said yourself, Gmane isn't
like 'the golden day' forums. Nice phrase BTW, you are
a cool guy!"

Oh stop it! You don't need to say that! You are using Gnus and
Gmane and that makes you cool as well, dammit.

> I agree. I enjoy using Gnus a lot. That is why I am
> searching for some way to view mailing lists in Gnus that
> makes me feel better. :)

???

Is this some elaborate trolling? OK, you fooled me!

> And indeed the administrators of gmane would know my subscriptions
> to the mailing lists.  What if I want to subscribe to some secret
> mailing list

Regretably that's impossible - or it doesn't compute I should
say, undefined, since a mailing list with a user base of 1 is
a contradiction in terms.

> This makes me feel asymmetrical.

"asymmetrical" ... you mean like doing something good, that
takes several years of hard work? and screwing it all up, that
takes several beers?

> Thanks for the explanation. I am exactly concerned about
> that micro possibility of people abusing the service.

No. Anyway it isn't your job and you are unable to interfere
in any way so don't pretend to meddle.

> I don't know exactly what I shall try: I am already using
> Gnus, and gmane. And my need was already satisfied by the
> function `gnus-group-make-doc-group'. Sorry if I was not
> clear about this point.

Maybe next time consider not trying to combine computer time
with your visits at the circus and the zoo?

> Sorry if my theoretical, hypothetical and inpractical
> questions, and / or my ambiguous phrasing, disturbed you.

On the contrary, they are all added to the Emacs FAQ, for
future reference and SEO purposes ONLY mind you.

  Q: Why do you always answer a question with a question?
  A: Does that bother you?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)]

> Le Sam, 16 avr 2022 13:19:47 +0200, Adam Sjøgren
>  a dit:

Adam> Durand writes: Yes, if you have an mbox file, you can browse
Adam> it in Gnus e.g.  by using G f in the *Group* buffer:

Durand> Thanks for the information.  That is exactly what I want!

Adam> Great!

Adam> [Traditional subscription to a mailing list]

Durand> I hesitate to do this because I don't want to store the
Durand> mailing list in my mail inbox.

Adam> What people usually do is to "split" (filter) email for a
Adam> mailing list into a separate "group" (folder).

I have tried to play with splitting mails using some simple sieve
scripts.  It is indeed fun.  :)

Durand> If I subscribe to the list, then the only way (that I
Durand> know) to remove the mails from my mail inbox is to delete
Durand> them.  But, what if I want to read the unsubscribed
Durand> mailing list again in the future?  Re-subscribing to the
Durand> list won't send me the old mails again.  So I need some
Durand> way to read the entire mailing list.

Adam> That's the situation where Gmane is handy - as it is keeps
Adam> being subscribed to a mailing list regardless of whether you
Adam> - or anybody else - is reading it, so it has all the emails
Adam> back to when the group was created in Gmane.

Agreed.

Adam> [Being in control]

Durand> I mean I do not have the ability to freely manipulate the
Durand> contents on the server.  For example, I have to request to
Durand> add some mailing lists to the server.  How am I in control
Durand> of that?  What if I want to subscribe to some mailing list
Durand> that I don't wish others to know that I want to subscribe
Durand> to?

Adam> Ah yes, in those cases using a public service is out of the
Adam> question.  But then you have the problems you mentioned
Adam> above instead :-)

Indeed.  That is just some hypothetical (and silly) question.  The
purpose of mentionning it is to show that I am not in control of the
process, though it is not a very practical issue.

Durand> Moreover, if I later don't want to subscribe to the
Durand> mailing list, could I remove the list from the gmane
Durand> server?

Adam> No - you can unsubscribe (and forget about the group), but
Adam> somebody else might be reading the mailing list via Gmane -
Adam> if you could remove it, you'd annoy anybody else who
Adam> subscribed to the group in the meantime.

Indeed.  That is why I think I am not in control: I cannot reverse
some actions initiated by me.

Durand> why can users add arbitrary mailing lists to the server?

Adam> To me it feels very much like a "I would like to use this
Adam> myself, so I built it.  Maybe others would like to use it as
Adam> well, feel free to do so"-project.  Although I don't know
Adam> what Lars' motivations were/are.

Adam> As long as it isn't abused, it's a nice service and a neat
Adam> solution to a problem shared by a bunch of people.

I see.

Durand> I think the server only has a limited amout of spaces, so
Durand> that the user can only add a limited amount of mailing
Durand> lists to the server?

Adam> There are only a limited amount of mailing lists on the
Adam> internet.

Adam> And the emails on those lists are (mainly) written by
Adam> people.  People can only type so much.

Adam> Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days?
Adam> You can store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes.

I understand this is not a practical issue now.  I was imagining that
this is easily abused, e.g. some user can make up a plethora of
mailing lists, and then blow the gmane server up by subscribing to a
new list every 10 seconds, say.

[ I am not sure if my concerns are valid.  I should add a disclaimer
  that I am a Mathematics student, and I tend to consider extreme
  cases before taking practical issues into consideration.  Sorry if
  my mail caused any trouble. ]

Durand> Or does gmane know some alchemical magic to handle an
Durand> unlimited amount of subscriptions to mailing lists?

Adam> Luckily there aren't an unlimited supply of mailing lists,
Adam> and there aren't an unlimited number of mailing lists that
Adam> people are interested in reading through Gmane.

Adam> So although resources aren't unlimited, neither is the need
Adam> for capacity.

Adam> I would guess that storage was much more a problem in the
Adam> beginning of Gmane (20 years ago!)  than now :-)

Thanks again for the reply.

Adam> This discussion has become only tangentially Gnus related,
Adam> it might make sense to switch to the gmane.discuss group on
Adam> news.gmane.io?  :-)

I think my question is already answered by your mention of
`gnus-group-make-doc-group', so there is currently no need to discuss
further.  Or per chance you want to discuss something?

> Le Sam, 16 

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)]

Adam Sjøgren wrote:

>> I hesitate to do this because I don't want to store the
>> mailing list in my mail inbox.
>
> What people usually do is to "split" (filter) email for
> a mailing list into a separate "group" (folder).

But that is a poor-man's solution, it will have to be setup
manually, and retrieval will be non-selective. Gnus can do
much better than than with Gmane which is the specific tool to
solve this exact situation; also, it comes with a bunch of
other advantages.

Remember, Gnus is to Emacs users what Emacs is to computer
users ...

>> If I subscribe to the list, then the only way (that I know)
>> to remove the mails from my mail inbox is to delete them.
>> But, what if I want to read the unsubscribed mailing list
>> again in the future? Re-subscribing to the list won't send
>> me the old mails again. So I need some way to read the
>> entire mailing list.
>
> That's the situation where Gmane is handy - as it is keeps
> being subscribed to a mailing list regardless of whether you
> - or anybody else - is reading it, so it has all the emails
> back to when the group was created in Gmane.

It is much better, not the least/especially in terms of
the interface.

>> I mean I do not have the ability to freely manipulate the
>> contents on the server. For example, I have to request to
>> add some mailing lists to the server. How am I in control
>> of that? What if I want to subscribe to some mailing list
>> that I don't wish others to know that I want to
>> subscribe to?
>
> Ah yes, in those cases using a public service is out of
> the question.

You mean the admin of Gmane?

Because everyone else don't know. Or if they do, please tell
me what 16 MLs/newsgroups and 1 blog I currently subscribe to
thru Gmane/Gwene and the news.gmane.io server?

But this objection is silly to begin with ...

>> Moreover, if I later don't want to subscribe to the mailing
>> list, could I remove the list from the gmane server?
>
> No - you can unsubscribe (and forget about the group), but
> somebody else might be reading the mailing list via Gmane -
> if you could remove it, you'd annoy anybody else who
> subscribed to the group in the meantime.

Right - on the contrary, with Gnus and Gmane, killing or
unsubscribing to a group is one keystroke away. But better
yet, it isn't needed even since if you don't visit the groups,
nothing happens. This is what I mentioned above, altho from
the other side of it, with Gmane, retrieval is selective.

>> why can users add arbitrary mailing lists to the server?
>
> To me it feels very much like a "I would like to use this
> myself, so I built it. Maybe others would like to use it as
> well, feel free to do so"-project. Although I don't know
> what Lars' motivations were/are.

It is to simplify/speed up the process. Either people don't
abuse it, or if they do to some very small extent, there are
automatic or manual checks to correct it. It is a tool for
Emacs Gnus users. Compare "there are [were?] no viruses for
Linux".

>> I think the server only has a limited amout of spaces, so
>> that the user can only add a limited amount of mailing
>> lists to the server?
>
> There are only a limited amount of mailing lists on
> the internet.
>
> And the emails on those lists are (mainly) written by
> people. People can only type so much.
>
> Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days?
> You can store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes.

Ha! Dear OP, just try it before you make up objections.
To quote the barrel racer, just try - and you will fly!

>> Or does gmane know some alchemical magic to handle an
>> unlimited amount of subscriptions to mailing lists?
>
> Luckily there aren't an unlimited supply of mailing lists,
> and there aren't an unlimited number of mailing lists that
> people are interested in reading through Gmane.
>
> So although resources aren't unlimited, neither is the need
> for capacity.
>
> I would guess that storage was much more a problem in the
> beginning of Gmane (20 years ago!) than now :-)
>
> This discussion has become only tangentially Gnus related,
> it might make sense to switch to the gmane.discuss group on
> news.gmane.io? :-)

The problem isn't your answers but the OP - or should I call
him the PO? - 's inside-out attitude. Trust us, if you are
a Gnus user, Gmane is what you are looking for. It is there
especially for your use-case. Just do us all a favor and try
it instead of making up made-up objections.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Adam Sjøgren]

Durand writes:

> Adam> Yes, if you have an mbox file, you can browse it in Gnus
> Adam> e.g.  by using G f in the *Group* buffer:
> 
> Thanks for the information.  That is exactly what I want!

Great!

[Traditional subscription to a mailing list]

> I hesitate to do this because I don't want to store the mailing list
> in my mail inbox.

What people usually do is to "split" (filter) email for a mailing list
into a separate "group" (folder).

> If I subscribe to the list, then the only way (that I know) to remove
> the mails from my mail inbox is to delete them. But, what if I want to
> read the unsubscribed mailing list again in the future? Re-subscribing
> to the list won't send me the old mails again. So I need some way to
> read the entire mailing list.

That's the situation where Gmane is handy - as it is keeps being
subscribed to a mailing list regardless of whether you - or anybody else
- is reading it, so it has all the emails back to when the group was
created in Gmane.

[Being in control]

> I mean I do not have the ability to freely manipulate the contents on
> the server.  For example, I have to request to add some mailing lists
> to the server.  How am I in control of that?  What if I want to
> subscribe to some mailing list that I don't wish others to know that I
> want to subscribe to?

Ah yes, in those cases using a public service is out of the question.
But then you have the problems you mentioned above instead :-)

> Moreover, if I later don't want to subscribe to the mailing list,
> could I remove the list from the gmane server?

No - you can unsubscribe (and forget about the group), but somebody else
might be reading the mailing list via Gmane - if you could remove it,
you'd annoy anybody else who subscribed to the group in the meantime.

> why can users add arbitrary mailing lists to the server?

To me it feels very much like a "I would like to use this myself, so I
built it. Maybe others would like to use it as well, feel free to do
so"-project. Although I don't know what Lars' motivations were/are.

As long as it isn't abused, it's a nice service and a neat solution to a
problem shared by a bunch of people.

> I think the server only has a limited amout of spaces, so that the
> user can only add a limited amount of mailing lists to the server?

There are only a limited amount of mailing lists on the internet.

And the emails on those lists are (mainly) written by people. People can
only type so much.

Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days? You can
store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes.

> Or does gmane know some alchemical magic to handle an unlimited amount
> of subscriptions to mailing lists?

Luckily there aren't an unlimited supply of mailing lists, and there
aren't an unlimited number of mailing lists that people are interested
in reading through Gmane.

So although resources aren't unlimited, neither is the need for
capacity.

I would guess that storage was much more a problem in the beginning of
Gmane (20 years ago!) than now :-)


This discussion has become only tangentially Gnus related, it might make
sense to switch to the gmane.discuss group on news.gmane.io? :-)


  Best regards,

Adam

-- 
 "This piece is about the inadequacy of traditional Adam Sjøgren
  imagey and symbols to convey meaning in today's  a...@koldfront.dk
  world."

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)]

> Le Jeu, 14 avr 2022 15:22:05 +0200, Adam Sjøgren
>  a dit:

Durand> - Is it possible to set up an nntp server on my own
Durand> virtual personal server, and let Gnus talk to that nntp
Durand> server?  I presume this is possible, but I have no
Durand> experiences in this field.

Adam> Certainly.  That won't make mailing lists appear on your own
Adam> nntp server, though, so that's an extra task to set
Adam> up/figure out.

Thanks for the confirmation.  I know it will contain subtleties:
setting up an email server contains a lot of subtleties as well.

Durand> - Is it possible to download the mailing list directly, as
Durand> an mbox file or any other format that the mailing list
Durand> provides, and use an ephemeral group to view the mailing
Durand> list?

Adam> Yes, if you have an mbox file, you can browse it in Gnus
Adam> e.g.  by using G f in the *Group* buffer:

Thanks for the information.  That is exactly what I want!

Also thanks for letting me know how to quote the documention string
inside a mail.  It looks clean and beautiful.  :)

Adam> [ 14 lines elided ... ]

Adam> The traditional way of reading a mailing list is subscribing
Adam> to it - then you receive a copy of every email somebody
Adam> sends to the mailing list.  Emails that can be read in Gnus.
Adam> Subscribing is usually as easy as sending an email to a
Adam> special address, though sometimes you have to go through a
Adam> web form.  This depends on the mailing list.

I hesitate to do this because I don't want to store the mailing list
in my mail inbox.  Per chance I don't want to subscribe to the mailing
list in the future.  If I subscribe to the list, then the only way
(that I know) to remove the mails from my mail inbox is to delete
them.  But, what if I want to read the unsubscribed mailing list again
in the future?  Re-subscribing to the list won't send me the old mails
again.  So I need some way to read the entire mailing list.

Adam> Gmane is a system that subscribes to mailing lists and
Adam> exposes them via nntp.  This can be very convenient, but if
Adam> the mailing lists you are interested in aren't already on
Adam> Gmane, you'll have to deal with getting them added via the
Adam> web interface.

Thanks for the information.

> Le Jeu, 14 avr 2022 21:24:33 +0800, Adam Sjøgren
>  a dit:

Durand> From what I heard, the mailing lists on the gmane server
Durand> are supposed to be related to "GNU things"?

Adam> Where have you heard that?  Gmane has all kinds of lists -
Adam> as long as the owner of the list doesn't mind, any mailing
Adam> list can be added.

Sorry for the uninformed saying.

Durand> Of course I am not saying that gmane should allow people
Durand> to add arbitrary mailing lists to the server; that makes
Durand> no sense.

Adam> That is literally what Gmane does.

I see.

Durand> I am just looking for some way to control what I can view
Durand> in Gnus.

Adam> How are you not in control of that?

I mean I do not have the ability to freely manipulate the contents on
the server.  For example, I have to request to add some mailing lists
to the server.  How am I in control of that?  What if I want to
subscribe to some mailing list that I don't wish others to know that I
want to subscribe to?

Moreover, if I later don't want to subscribe to the mailing list,
could I remove the list from the gmane server?

By the way, I am kind of in doubt of how gmane works.  I mean: why can
users add arbitrary mailing lists to the server?  I think the server
only has a limited amout of spaces, so that the user can only add a
limited amount of mailing lists to the server?  Or does gmane know
some alchemical magic to handle an unlimited amount of subscriptions
to mailing lists?

> Le Jeu, 14 avr 2022 21:55:56 +0800, Emanuel Berg via
> "Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet
> newsreader (in English)"  a dit:

Emanuel> Indeed, since it isn't even "GNUS" anymore but Gnus which
Emanuel> I believe to be a recursive acronym meaning "Gnus Network
Emanuel> User Services".

Thanks for the information.  :)

-- 
Durand

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)]

Durand via "Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet 
newsreader (in English)" wrote:

> [ Maybe that is why GNUS is named as GNU thingS? I am
>   kidding. ]

Indeed, since it isn't even "GNUS" anymore but Gnus which
I believe to be a recursive acronym meaning "Gnus Network User
Services".


-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)]

Adam Sjøgren wrote:

>> From what I heard, the mailing lists on the gmane server
>> are supposed to be related to "GNU things"?
>
> Where have you heard that?

Haha :)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Adam Sjøgren]

Durand via writes:

> From what I heard, the mailing lists on the gmane server are supposed
> to be related to "GNU things"?

Where have you heard that? Gmane has all kinds of lists - as long as the
owner of the list doesn't mind, any mailing list can be added.

> Of course I am not saying that gmane should allow people to add
> arbitrary mailing lists to the server; that makes no sense.

That is literally what Gmane does.

> I am just looking for some way to control what I can view in Gnus.

How are you not in control of that?


  Best regards,

Adam

-- 
 "Our voodoo-dolls are full of hopes"   Adam Sjøgren
   a...@koldfront.dk

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Adam Sjøgren]

Durand writes:

> - Is it possible to set up an nntp server on my own virtual personal
>   server, and let Gnus talk to that nntp server?  I presume this is
>   possible, but I have no experiences in this field.

Certainly. That won't make mailing lists appear on your own nntp server,
though, so that's an extra task to set up/figure out.

> - Is it possible to download the mailing list directly, as an mbox
>   file or any other format that the mailing list provides, and use an
>   ephemeral group to view the mailing list?

Yes, if you have an mbox file, you can browse it in Gnus e.g. by using G f
in the *Group* buffer:

,
| G f runs the command gnus-group-make-doc-group (found in
| gnus-group-mode-map), which is an interactive native compiled Lisp
| function in ‘gnus-group.el’.
| 
| It is bound to G f.
| It can also be invoked from the menu:.
| 
| (gnus-group-make-doc-group FILE TYPE)
| 
| Create a group that uses a single file as the source.
| 
| If called with a prefix argument, ask for the file type.
`

The traditional way of reading a mailing list is subscribing to it -
then you receive a copy of every email somebody sends to the mailing
list. Emails that can be read in Gnus. Subscribing is usually as easy as
sending an email to a special address, though sometimes you have to go
through a web form. This depends on the mailing list.

Gmane is a system that subscribes to mailing lists and exposes them via
nntp. This can be very convenient, but if the mailing lists you are
interested in aren't already on Gmane, you'll have to deal with getting
them added via the web interface.


  Best regards,

Adam

-- 
 "LUFTVAFFEL!"  Adam Sjøgren
   a...@koldfront.dk

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)]

I shall have made it clear, sorry for the ambiguous wording.

What I mean is that I cannot decide which mailing list to view in
Gnus, and I have to request for a mailing list to be added.  Moreover,
what if I want to view some mailing list that is not related to GNU?
>From what I heard, the mailing lists on the gmane server are supposed
to be related to "GNU things"?

[ Maybe that is why GNUS is named as GNU thingS?  I am kidding. ]

Of course I am not saying that gmane should allow people to add
arbitrary mailing lists to the server; that makes no sense.  I am just
looking for some way to control what I can view in Gnus.

-- 
Durand

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)]

Durand via "Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet 
newsreader (in English)" wrote:

> Thanks for all your help! I appreciate your
> suggestions sincerely.
>
> But I am not really satisfied by the proposed approach, as
> I think that does not grant the users as much freedom as
> I would expect.
>
> I might sound too demanding and never-satisfied. I guess
> I am spoiled by the freedom I feel in the world of Emacs.

What problem are you trying to solve?

Using Gnus and Gmane does not involve any breach of Emacs
world freedom what I can see?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)]

Thanks for all your help!  I appreciate your suggestions sincerely.

But I am not really satisfied by the proposed approach, as I think
that does not grant the users as much freedom as I would expect.

I might sound too demanding and never-satisfied.  I guess I am spoiled
by the freedom I feel in the world of Emacs.

So I am wondering if the following two alternate ideas are practical.
I would be glad to know what you think of them, whether they are
practical or not.

- Is it possible to set up an nntp server on my own virtual personal
  server, and let Gnus talk to that nntp server?  I presume this is
  possible, but I have no experiences in this field.

- Is it possible to download the mailing list directly, as an mbox
  file or any other format that the mailing list provides, and use an
  ephemeral group to view the mailing list?  This is just an
  imagination, and I don't really know what I am talking about.  :P

Best regards,
-- 
Durand

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)]

Jai Vetrivelan wrote:

> You can request gmane to add the mailing list to archives,
> if it is not present already.
>
> https://admin.gmane.io/

It isn't.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Jai Vetrivelan]

On 2022-04-12, 19:53 +0800, Durand  wrote:

> Hello:
>
> I know how to subsribe to a mailing list on a known server, like this
> list gmane.emacs.gnus.user.  Now I am wondering how do I know the
> server to connect to?
>
> In particular, I am trying to subscribe to the following mailing list
> .  But I don't know how
> to do so in Gnus.
>
> Did I miss something or do you have any suggestions?

You can request gmane to add the mailing list to archives, if it is not
present already.

https://admin.gmane.io/

-- 
Jai Vetrivelan


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Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)]

Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:

>> In particular, I am trying to subscribe to the following
>> mailing list
>> .
>> But I don't know how to do so in Gnus.
>>
>> Did I miss something or do you have any suggestions?
>
> Just general way. Check here: 

If it has something to do with GNU it should definitely be
added to Gmane ...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)]

Durand wrote:

> In particular, I am trying to subscribe to the following
> mailing list
> . But I don't
> know how to do so in Gnus.

That list isn't added to Gmane but you can do that easily:

  https://gmane.io/

Then enter the Server buffer, enter the Gmane server, and
subscribe to the ML there.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

Dear Durand,

Durand via "Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet
newsreader (in English)"  writes:

> Hello:
>
> I know how to subsribe to a mailing list on a known server, like this
> list gmane.emacs.gnus.user.  Now I am wondering how do I know the
> server to connect to?
>
> In particular, I am trying to subscribe to the following mailing list
> .  But I don't know how
> to do so in Gnus.
>
> Did I miss something or do you have any suggestions?

Just general way. Check here: 

It is easy ^^^

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//