Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
On 18.07.2008, at 10:11, Pierre Joye wrote: On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 9:27 AM, Ulf Wendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lester Caine schrieb: Ulf Wendel wrote: If mysqlnd turns out to be stable enough during the PHP 5.3 test phase, PHP 5.3+ may use mysqlnd as a default. There is no need to download an extra library when using 5.3. Lukas, this is not affecting PHP 5.3 as long as mysqlnd is stable/fast/... enough to be used as a default. BUT - does mysqlnd produce data in phpinfo() ? So when loaded by default you confuse end users when looking for problems on systems that do not use MySQL. We discussed that earlier in the thread: there's no need to load mysqlnd if there's no mysql extension loaded and using it - BUG, though not a high priority one. Just like there is no need to load ext/pdo when no pdo driver gets loaded. The question is also how much sense it makes. The main problem is the dependency loading mechanism, which does not exist. That's the main why PDO and MySqlnd can't be compiled as shared (or should not). If I configure PHP without any mysql extension, does that mean that I will never add one? I'm not sure but if we disable PDO and mysqlnd when no driver are enabled at compile time, it means that I will have to recompile PHP as soon as I like to use a pdo or mysqlnd driver. I will let the RM decides :-D It seems to me like in 99% of the cases on linux the initial install of PHP will include PDO and MySQL (ok lets say 90% for MySQL and 99% for PDO) intentionally anyways. For the rest they will be hand compiling anyways on Linux. I guess this leaves the only issue being the order in which the extensions get listed in the php.ini, right? There I guess we should just try to provide a good error message, but if we can't then the error message will likely soon plaster google/ yahoo with solutions (ideally our manual would be at the top). For windows I feel that its mainly used for development, as such I would rather want to see things compiled in to reduce trouble, especially for novice users. For those users looking to get super stream lined binaries, with the work by the windows team its more feasible than ever to make your own binaries (or have someone else do it for them). regards, Lukas Kahwe Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Hi Lukas, On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 10:52 PM, Lukas Kahwe Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems to me like in 99% of the cases on linux the initial install of PHP will include PDO and MySQL (ok lets say 90% for MySQL and 99% for PDO) intentionally anyways. For the rest they will be hand compiling anyways on Linux. I guess this leaves the only issue being the order in which the extensions get listed in the php.ini, right? Yes, and dependencies detection at load/run time is not yet ready. It may be possible on windows (not for 5.3) later though. There I guess we should just try to provide a good error message, but if we can't then the error message will likely soon plaster google/yahoo with solutions (ideally our manual would be at the top). For windows I feel that its mainly used for development, as such I would rather want to see things compiled in to reduce trouble, especially for novice users. For those users looking to get super stream lined binaries, with the work by the windows team its more feasible than ever to make your own binaries (or have someone else do it for them). It is easy, but it is not possible yet to disable mysqlnd, but it is possible already to disable PDO. Cheers, -- Pierre http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Ulf Wendel wrote: If mysqlnd turns out to be stable enough during the PHP 5.3 test phase, PHP 5.3+ may use mysqlnd as a default. There is no need to download an extra library when using 5.3. Lukas, this is not affecting PHP 5.3 as long as mysqlnd is stable/fast/... enough to be used as a default. BUT - does mysqlnd produce data in phpinfo() ? So when loaded by default you confuse end users when looking for problems on systems that do not use MySQL. I have no problem with extra stuff being load as long as it only becomes visible if it is ACTUALLY enabled to be used. If MySQL is not enabled on the system it should not be reported in phpinfo(). Since a number of problems in the past have come about by other packages being loaded that affect the overall setup, seeing things that should not be present is a quick cross check. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Lester Caine schrieb: Ulf Wendel wrote: If mysqlnd turns out to be stable enough during the PHP 5.3 test phase, PHP 5.3+ may use mysqlnd as a default. There is no need to download an extra library when using 5.3. Lukas, this is not affecting PHP 5.3 as long as mysqlnd is stable/fast/... enough to be used as a default. BUT - does mysqlnd produce data in phpinfo() ? So when loaded by default you confuse end users when looking for problems on systems that do not use MySQL. We discussed that earlier in the thread: there's no need to load mysqlnd if there's no mysql extension loaded and using it - BUG, though not a high priority one. Just like there is no need to load ext/pdo when no pdo driver gets loaded. Ulf -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 9:27 AM, Ulf Wendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lester Caine schrieb: Ulf Wendel wrote: If mysqlnd turns out to be stable enough during the PHP 5.3 test phase, PHP 5.3+ may use mysqlnd as a default. There is no need to download an extra library when using 5.3. Lukas, this is not affecting PHP 5.3 as long as mysqlnd is stable/fast/... enough to be used as a default. BUT - does mysqlnd produce data in phpinfo() ? So when loaded by default you confuse end users when looking for problems on systems that do not use MySQL. We discussed that earlier in the thread: there's no need to load mysqlnd if there's no mysql extension loaded and using it - BUG, though not a high priority one. Just like there is no need to load ext/pdo when no pdo driver gets loaded. The question is also how much sense it makes. The main problem is the dependency loading mechanism, which does not exist. That's the main why PDO and MySqlnd can't be compiled as shared (or should not). If I configure PHP without any mysql extension, does that mean that I will never add one? I'm not sure but if we disable PDO and mysqlnd when no driver are enabled at compile time, it means that I will have to recompile PHP as soon as I like to use a pdo or mysqlnd driver. I will let the RM decides :-D Cheers, -- Pierre http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Pierre Joye schrieb: hi, On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Ulf Wendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What improvements or RFC's did I blog about instead of sending them to the PHP development list. Its just not obvious to me. No idea, and that's the problem. I do read the bug reports, not your blog. Pierre, although you do not read my blog you seem to be sure about its contents: bug reports, improvements and RFCs. Stuff thatshould have gone to the development lists. I proved that I did file PDO bugs and work on PDO bugs since February. I offered new tests for PDO on the PHP QA list in April. I commented to the PDO v1 Improvements RFC [1], written by and blogged about by Lukas [2], on the PHP PDO mailing list [3] in May. What is wrong with a blog that you do not read? Ulf [1] http://wiki.php.net/rfc/pdov1 [2] http://pooteeweet.org/blog/1048 [3] http://news.php.net/php.pdo/166 -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Ulf Wendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: although you do not read my blog you seem to be sure about its contents: bug reports, improvements and RFCs. Stuff thatshould have gone to the development lists. I proved that I did file PDO bugs and work on PDO bugs since February. I offered new tests for PDO on the PHP QA list in April. I commented to the PDO v1 Improvements RFC [1], written by and blogged about by Lukas [2], on the PHP PDO mailing list [3] in May. What is wrong with a blog that you do not read? Nothing.*G* It is kept asking about what is in these blogs and not in the lists, my answer is: no idea, please post to the list what is relevant to the list (or in a bug report)... -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Hello Andrey, Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 6:30:50 PM, you wrote: Marcus, Marcus Boerger wrote: Hello Ulf, Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 4:32:10 PM, you wrote: Pierre Joye schrieb: Drop the launchpad and use php's cvs. We have actually two development branches (5.3 until the 24th and HEAD) and PECL. The latter let you experiment as much as you wish. Pierre, you are not in the position to tell us what repository we use for internal developments and experimental features. Or should I start flaming againt the developing of a new PHP parser at svn://whisky.macvicar.net/php-re2c . Looks like there are two classes of developers in your world. The bad and the good. The good can use their own repositories. The bad may not. And MySQL is bad. You really proove here that a) our communication needs to get better and that blogs don't help as they are ignored ffrom most developers. And b) we reallt need to most to a better repository like SVN or HG. I am pretty lazy, thus I use my Thunderbird as a RSS reader. I get planetmysql as a feed and if I am not interested in an article, I skip it. It doesn't require even to go anymore to planetmysql . But even more, Ulf is also on planetphp, so you will get the message, if there is something. Internals is full of other things. I recall Wez saying that the PDO discussion should stay at the PDO list and not be on internals, because he doesn't have the bandwidth to follow internals. Well, then he wouldn't be able to follow PHP development and hence would develop PDO in a non PHP way. That said it is no wonder I have always been against these special cases. We are chaos and that takes time. Yet we decided for ourself to be the open platform where users have direct influence if they whish to. Given our success I see no reason to change this. Other than that, nobody tells you what you do or use. We just would like to know. And in regards to re2c I can only repeat what Scott said. It was a one time experiment that was announced on the list to be followed along and comitted as a whole as soon as agreed on (not when finished to be precise). Well, we experiment internally. Being it async queries, prepared statements cache, client side query cache, zval caching, memory allocation caching, whatever. Then it goes to cvs, ONCE WE HAVE PROPER TESTS. I am talking about patches which are not typical 100 lines and that need really a lot of testing, before anyone can scream that MySQL (SUN) makes things worse. What we do is for the best of the community. We strive to have more things open source, because we believe in open source to the extent that we fight for it, you just don't hear these things in the public. I wish PHP the best, I am living with the project in the last 8 years. I am giving more than I am expected for the sake that others will be satisfied with the work and will use PHP. Everyone is welcomed to participate in the mysqlnd development and the extension has seen changes from outside, as well the mysql extensions and we never complained that someone does it. I just moved the changes to our internal revision control system, as Bazaar gives us more freedom to work than CVS - recently there was a Blog entry on planetphp from a dev, who synced PHP but forgot to sync Zend. Wanted to dev while on train but the sources did not build so his time was wasted. Best regards, Marcus Best, Andrey Best regards, Marcus -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Andrey Hristov wrote: I am pretty lazy, thus I use my Thunderbird as a RSS reader. I get planetmysql as a feed and if I am not interested in an article, I skip it. It doesn't require even to go anymore to planetmysql . But even more, Ulf is also on planetphp, so you will get the message, if there is something. Sorry, but those things should go to the mailinglist. Have it also on a blog is fine, but I doubt every php developer follows planet PHP as there's so much nonsense on it. Derick -- Derick Rethans http://derickrethans.nl | http://ezcomponents.org | http://xdebug.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Derick Rethans schrieb: On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Andrey Hristov wrote: I am pretty lazy, thus I use my Thunderbird as a RSS reader. I get planetmysql as a feed and if I am not interested in an article, I skip it. It doesn't require even to go anymore to planetmysql . But even more, Ulf is also on planetphp, so you will get the message, if there is something. Sorry, but those things should go to the mailinglist. Have it also on a blog is fine, but I doubt every php developer follows planet PHP as there's so much nonsense on it. I'm sure there's no need to discuss the differences between an article/blogging and development discussions on other channels. Is there any particular blog posting which has been must go dev-list in your eyes? Ulf -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Ulf Wendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Derick Rethans schrieb: On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Andrey Hristov wrote: I am pretty lazy, thus I use my Thunderbird as a RSS reader. I get planetmysql as a feed and if I am not interested in an article, I skip it. It doesn't require even to go anymore to planetmysql . But even more, Ulf is also on planetphp, so you will get the message, if there is something. Sorry, but those things should go to the mailinglist. Have it also on a blog is fine, but I doubt every php developer follows planet PHP as there's so much nonsense on it. I'm sure there's no need to discuss the differences between an article/blogging and development discussions on other channels. Is there any particular blog posting which has been must go dev-list in your eyes? Can you not simply post everything relevant to PDO and php internals to the internals list? Like bug reports, improvements, RFC, etc. (is it not obvious?) Cheers, -- Pierre http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Pierre Joye schrieb: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Ulf Wendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Derick Rethans schrieb: On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Andrey Hristov wrote: I am pretty lazy, thus I use my Thunderbird as a RSS reader. I get planetmysql as a feed and if I am not interested in an article, I skip it. It doesn't require even to go anymore to planetmysql . But even more, Ulf is also on planetphp, so you will get the message, if there is something. Sorry, but those things should go to the mailinglist. Have it also on a blog is fine, but I doubt every php developer follows planet PHP as there's so much nonsense on it. I'm sure there's no need to discuss the differences between an article/blogging and development discussions on other channels. Is there any particular blog posting which has been must go dev-list in your eyes? Can you not simply post everything relevant to PDO and php internals to the internals list? Like bug reports, improvements, RFC, etc. (is it not obvious?) No, it is not obvious. Bug reports filed by myself since February: [ 1] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=45432 [ 2] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44409 [ 3] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44173 [ 4] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44154 [ 5] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44151 [ 6] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44337 [ 7] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44362 [ 8] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44159 [ 9] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44202 [10] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44200 [11] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44166 [12] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44189 [13] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44169 [14] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44158 [15] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44155 [16] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44327 Bug reports I have gone through and check if they are related to PDO_MYSQL - which they are not in my eyes. I have commented in the bug system to all of them but one: [17] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=40740 [18] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44707 [19] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=42322 [20] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=43443 [21] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=41125 Bug reports which are related to PDO_MYSQL and which I have commented on in the bug system: [22] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=41997 [23] http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=42499 [24] http://pecl.php.net/bugs/bug.php?id=12794 [25] http://pecl.php.net/bugs/bug.php?id=12401 Improvements: I have offered 44 new general PDO tests on the php-qa mailing list in late April, http://marc.info/?l=php-qam=120949456225995w=2 . 44 new means roughly +100%. The PDO bug list has a shocking length of 99 entries: http://bugs.php.net/search.php?search_for=boolean=1limit=Allorder_by=direction=DESCcmd=displaystatus=Openbug_type[]=PDO+relatedphp_os=phpver=assign=author_email=bug_age=0 . What improvements or RFC's did I blog about instead of sending them to the PHP development list. Its just not obvious to me. Ulf -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Hi Marcus, Marcus Boerger wrote: Hello Andrey, Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 3:12:27 PM, you wrote: andrey Tue Jul 15 13:12:27 2008 UTC Modified files: /php-src/ext/mysql php_mysql.c /php-src/ext/mysqli mysqli.c /php-src/ext/mysqlndmysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c Log: Sync with bzr what did you synch? what is bzr? is this developed elsewhere? If so why does php have a copy... especially in src bzr stands for Bazaar. We have internally switched from svn to bazaar. There is also public repository bzr clone lp:~andrey-mysql/php-mysqlnd/trunk I think Ulf will soon write a blog entry about it. There is a problem with CVS, because it should be compilable all the time. Internally bzr is used till a feature matures. Then it gets synced. Also when offline one can fix bugs without fearing that can break something. We sync code very often. If php.net was using more sophisticated revision control system we wouldn't bother to use bzr internally, as I am not a fan of administering a RCS. Most of the times a new feature lies on the backs of few people, i.e me+Ulf or Johannes+Ulf . Ulf does heavy-weight testing. We don't like pushing code without having proper tests for it. Without internal RCS this won't work flawlessy - sending patches around makes things complicated. Asynchronous query support in mysqlnd is such a feature, that waits for more tests (it has already some), before we put it to CVS. We had a branch, currently abandoned, to play with client side query caching. I think it's more in the interest of the PHP users, if we provide well tested code and not put experimental stuff, that breaks. We are on our way to clean mysqli from experimental stuff by either stabilizing it or developing it anew. You might think that we have closed-sourced something, but that's definitely not true. When we used svn we had a public svn repo, which was actually used. The bzr repo at launchpad mirrors our internal bzr repo. Best regards, Marcus Regards, Andrey -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 4:10 PM, Andrey Hristov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: bzr stands for Bazaar. We have internally switched from svn to bazaar. There is also public repository bzr clone lp:~andrey-mysql/php-mysqlnd/trunk I think Ulf will soon write a blog entry about it. I do not like to repeat myself (for the wellness of the reader), but we have mailing lists. Blogs are nice for whatever you use it but they are not the way to communicate with internals. There is a problem with CVS, because it should be compilable all the time. No, you can disable by default until you reach a usable state (#2). But do you really commit non compilable code in your repository?!? You might think that we have closed-sourced something, but that's definitely not true. When we used svn we had a public svn repo, which was actually used. The bzr repo at launchpad mirrors our internal bzr repo. Drop the launchpad and use php's cvs. We have actually two development branches (5.3 until the 24th and HEAD) and PECL. The latter let you experiment as much as you wish. It is impossible to work smoothly together if the development (besides what resides in your personnal HDD) is not in our repository. As it is fine for a PECL extension, it is hardly a good thing for key component like the mysql extension(s). Cheers, -- Pierre http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Pierre Joye schrieb: Drop the launchpad and use php's cvs. We have actually two development branches (5.3 until the 24th and HEAD) and PECL. The latter let you experiment as much as you wish. Pierre, you are not in the position to tell us what repository we use for internal developments and experimental features. Or should I start flaming againt the developing of a new PHP parser at svn://whisky.macvicar.net/php-re2c . Looks like there are two classes of developers in your world. The bad and the good. The good can use their own repositories. The bad may not. And MySQL is bad. Ulf -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Ulf Wendel wrote: Pierre Joye schrieb: Drop the launchpad and use php's cvs. We have actually two development branches (5.3 until the 24th and HEAD) and PECL. The latter let you experiment as much as you wish. Pierre, you are not in the position to tell us what repository we use for internal developments and experimental features. Or should I start flaming againt the developing of a new PHP parser at svn://whisky.macvicar.net/php-re2c . Looks like there are two classes of developers in your world. The bad and the good. The good can use their own repositories. The bad may not. And MySQL is bad. Ulf The implementation of the new scanner was an experiment at first to see how viable it was, as soon as it was finished we created a patch and the repository was no longer used. We could have potentially created a new branch for this but neither nuno or myself had karma for Zend/ at the time. Scott -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Hello Ulf, Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 4:32:10 PM, you wrote: Pierre Joye schrieb: Drop the launchpad and use php's cvs. We have actually two development branches (5.3 until the 24th and HEAD) and PECL. The latter let you experiment as much as you wish. Pierre, you are not in the position to tell us what repository we use for internal developments and experimental features. Or should I start flaming againt the developing of a new PHP parser at svn://whisky.macvicar.net/php-re2c . Looks like there are two classes of developers in your world. The bad and the good. The good can use their own repositories. The bad may not. And MySQL is bad. You really proove here that a) our communication needs to get better and that blogs don't help as they are ignored ffrom most developers. And b) we reallt need to most to a better repository like SVN or HG. Other than that, nobody tells you what you do or use. We just would like to know. And in regards to re2c I can only repeat what Scott said. It was a one time experiment that was announced on the list to be followed along and comitted as a whole as soon as agreed on (not when finished to be precise). Best regards, Marcus -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Hi Ulf, On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Ulf Wendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pierre Joye schrieb: Drop the launchpad and use php's cvs. We have actually two development branches (5.3 until the 24th and HEAD) and PECL. The latter let you experiment as much as you wish. Pierre, you are not in the position to tell us what repository we use for internal developments and experimental features. I am in the position to tell you that I disagree with your choices. I'm even more concerned as I try to maintain and test the current windows releases for our PHP releases. Given the almost complete lack of answers from MySql to my requests, I'm actually in the positions to worry about what is happening here. That being said, I will leave you in peace now. I told you my thoughts, my worries and the reasoning behind them. I also showed more than once my willingness to help (and not only for mysqlnd) . If the only results is such answers... Or should I start flaming againt the developing of a new PHP parser at svn://whisky.macvicar.net/php-re2c . Looks like there are two classes of developers in your world. The bad and the good. The good can use their own repositories. The bad may not. And MySQL is bad. See Scott answer and I can hardly see a relation between the two. -- Pierre http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Marcus, Marcus Boerger wrote: Hello Ulf, Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 4:32:10 PM, you wrote: Pierre Joye schrieb: Drop the launchpad and use php's cvs. We have actually two development branches (5.3 until the 24th and HEAD) and PECL. The latter let you experiment as much as you wish. Pierre, you are not in the position to tell us what repository we use for internal developments and experimental features. Or should I start flaming againt the developing of a new PHP parser at svn://whisky.macvicar.net/php-re2c . Looks like there are two classes of developers in your world. The bad and the good. The good can use their own repositories. The bad may not. And MySQL is bad. You really proove here that a) our communication needs to get better and that blogs don't help as they are ignored ffrom most developers. And b) we reallt need to most to a better repository like SVN or HG. I am pretty lazy, thus I use my Thunderbird as a RSS reader. I get planetmysql as a feed and if I am not interested in an article, I skip it. It doesn't require even to go anymore to planetmysql . But even more, Ulf is also on planetphp, so you will get the message, if there is something. Internals is full of other things. I recall Wez saying that the PDO discussion should stay at the PDO list and not be on internals, because he doesn't have the bandwidth to follow internals. Other than that, nobody tells you what you do or use. We just would like to know. And in regards to re2c I can only repeat what Scott said. It was a one time experiment that was announced on the list to be followed along and comitted as a whole as soon as agreed on (not when finished to be precise). Well, we experiment internally. Being it async queries, prepared statements cache, client side query cache, zval caching, memory allocation caching, whatever. Then it goes to cvs, ONCE WE HAVE PROPER TESTS. I am talking about patches which are not typical 100 lines and that need really a lot of testing, before anyone can scream that MySQL (SUN) makes things worse. What we do is for the best of the community. We strive to have more things open source, because we believe in open source to the extent that we fight for it, you just don't hear these things in the public. I wish PHP the best, I am living with the project in the last 8 years. I am giving more than I am expected for the sake that others will be satisfied with the work and will use PHP. Everyone is welcomed to participate in the mysqlnd development and the extension has seen changes from outside, as well the mysql extensions and we never complained that someone does it. I just moved the changes to our internal revision control system, as Bazaar gives us more freedom to work than CVS - recently there was a Blog entry on planetphp from a dev, who synced PHP but forgot to sync Zend. Wanted to dev while on train but the sources did not build so his time was wasted. Best regards, Marcus Best, Andrey -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Pierre, Pierre Joye wrote: Hi Ulf, On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Ulf Wendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pierre Joye schrieb: Drop the launchpad and use php's cvs. We have actually two development branches (5.3 until the 24th and HEAD) and PECL. The latter let you experiment as much as you wish. Pierre, you are not in the position to tell us what repository we use for internal developments and experimental features. I am in the position to tell you that I disagree with your choices. I'm even more concerned as I try to maintain and test the current windows releases for our PHP releases. Given the almost complete lack of answers from MySql to my requests, I'm actually in the positions to worry about what is happening here. That being said, I will leave you in peace now. I told you my thoughts, my worries and the reasoning behind them. I also showed more than once my willingness to help (and not only for mysqlnd) . If the only results is such answers... As much as I don't like using Windows we do test our code on Windows. We do test it on Fedora, Debian, Solaris (x86 and sparc), and even more. We can test on more than the PHP project can test - hpux and other rarities. Dunno if you have ever heard of Pushbuild, it's internal MySQL which supports constant building after every commit on a matrix of platforms. We use similar tool which uses the same platforms to run PHP tests. So we take quality next to our hearts. If you are on another opinion Ulf will get insulted, believe me. He does the dirty job of testing not only mysqlnd but PDO. How many times he did grumble because of PDO problems - I know, because I am constantly communicating with him. Or should I start flaming againt the developing of a new PHP parser at svn://whisky.macvicar.net/php-re2c . Looks like there are two classes of developers in your world. The bad and the good. The good can use their own repositories. The bad may not. And MySQL is bad. See Scott answer and I can hardly see a relation between the two. Best, Andrey -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Pierre, Pierre Joye wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Ulf Wendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's your point, what requests are you talking about? Please ask Johannes, I told them to him live last time we met. If there is doubts, I will happily repeat them. I saw one person complaining about mysqlnd being compiled into PHP although no mysql extension was compiled into PHP: bug - open to anybody to fix. Ok, I will fix that as It does not make sense to enable mysqlnd when no mysql extensions are enabled (but that's the least of my worries). PHP has a very vivid team of developers fixing many issues before they go down to the maintainers, see the constant work on bug reports. I relied on that to happen. Is that the issue you are talking about? How can that happen when you do many maybe unrelated changes in one commit? How can I (or other) granulary review a commit in this case (if something is broken)? We are one week before a freeze and we just see than one of the most important change for this release is developed outside our tree, I seriously hope that you understand our worries (I'm not alone to worry). We may not have have the time to deal with the last minutes issues introduced by a last minute sync (== disable). the sync you saw was mostly whitespace. As an example during my vacation Dmitri of the Zend fame complained about valgrind problems with mysqlnd. I took time from my vacation to look after the cause and provide patches, _through_ CVS, for him and all the community to resolve the problems. Is that a closed source development? If I today commit the async stuff, you will see it as one patch, one big patch, which you will have hours to review in its whole. It won't be series of patches which you have to connect to realize the whole picture. On another topic, the branches. I have the feeling that HEAD is pretty much abandoned, changing constantly in some direction. I and we look at HEAD in a different way. If HEAD would have been released today as PHP6 the MySQL extension would have been ready for that. Nobody likes merges, but we do make them. Both MySQL extensions were fully Unicode ready with tests using 2 and 3 byte UTF-8 sequences so we can _ensure_ quality. It's not a playground with half-baked features. Either you get something baked or you don't get it. -- Pierre http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org Andrey -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Pierre Joye schrieb: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Ulf Wendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's your point, what requests are you talking about? Please ask Johannes, I told them to him live last time we met. If there is doubts, I will happily repeat them. So, you have one question related to Windows builds - I did not know that. According to Johannes you both have chatted on IRC about it after you met. The chat did not help to clearify the question. Can you rephrase the question, what version of PHP are we talking about? I saw one person complaining about mysqlnd being compiled into PHP although no mysql extension was compiled into PHP: bug - open to anybody to fix. Ok, I will fix that as It does not make sense to enable mysqlnd when no mysql extensions are enabled (but that's the least of my worries). Cool. Its annoying to see anything in a binary which is not needed (here: mysqlnd). Like it makes no sense to have ext/pdo compiled into PHP if no driver is compiled into PHP. I hope we're not down to a point where we really need consult each other for such a minor change... PHP has a very vivid team of developers fixing many issues before they go down to the maintainers, see the constant work on bug reports. I relied on that to happen. Is that the issue you are talking about? How can that happen when you do many maybe unrelated changes in one commit? How can I (or other) granulary review a commit in this case (if something is broken)? I have no clue if Andrey has combined several fixes in one commit. At this point I have to rely on him choosing a proper granularity for a commit. Too large commits can always happen. You can work for a month in your local CVS copy and commit 100k at one - no difference. We are one week before a freeze and we just see than one of the most important change for this release is developed outside our tree, I seriously hope that you understand our worries (I'm not alone to worry). We may not have have the time to deal with the last minutes issues introduced by a last minute sync (== disable). So, this is the real issue behind this discussion, or is there more, such as the Windows question from above? mysqlnd has been committed into PHP 5.3 branch (and into HEAD) in October 2007. Since then several updates have been comitted into the CVS. This is yet another update. For whatever reason you seem to see a difference between this and previous updates. Do you want to hint that no extension maintainer should update their extensions any more due to the announced code freeze on July, 24th because you do not have enough time between code freeze and alpha 1? If so, the time between code freeze and alpha 1 seems too short. Ulf -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Ulf Wendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pierre Joye schrieb: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Ulf Wendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's your point, what requests are you talking about? Please ask Johannes, I told them to him live last time we met. If there is doubts, I will happily repeat them. So, you have one question related to Windows builds - I did not know that. According to Johannes you both have chatted on IRC about it after you met. The chat did not help to clearify the question. Can you rephrase the question, what version of PHP are we talking about? I saw one person complaining about mysqlnd being compiled into PHP although no mysql extension was compiled into PHP: bug - open to anybody to fix. Ok, I will fix that as It does not make sense to enable mysqlnd when no mysql extensions are enabled (but that's the least of my worries). Cool. Its annoying to see anything in a binary which is not needed (here: mysqlnd). Like it makes no sense to have ext/pdo compiled into PHP if no driver is compiled into PHP. I hope we're not down to a point where we really need consult each other for such a minor change... PHP has a very vivid team of developers fixing many issues before they go down to the maintainers, see the constant work on bug reports. I relied on that to happen. Is that the issue you are talking about? How can that happen when you do many maybe unrelated changes in one commit? How can I (or other) granulary review a commit in this case (if something is broken)? I have no clue if Andrey has combined several fixes in one commit. At this point I have to rely on him choosing a proper granularity for a commit. Too large commits can always happen. You can work for a month in your local CVS copy and commit 100k at one - no difference. Except that nobody does that for daily jobs and fixes. We are one week before a freeze and we just see than one of the most important change for this release is developed outside our tree, I seriously hope that you understand our worries (I'm not alone to worry). We may not have have the time to deal with the last minutes issues introduced by a last minute sync (== disable). So, this is the real issue behind this discussion, or is there more, such as the Windows question from above? No, the real issue is: The extension should be developed and maintained in php-src. Whether we'll have to disable it or not if it is broken is a temporary measure and is really unimportant. mysqlnd has been committed into PHP 5.3 branch (and into HEAD) in October 2007. Since then several updates have been comitted into the CVS. This is yet another update. For whatever reason you seem to see a difference between this and previous updates. Because we were supposing that you maintain it only here and not only syncing trees. Do you want to hint that no extension maintainer should update their extensions any more due to the announced code freeze on July, 24th because you do not have enough time between code freeze and alpha 1? If so, the time between code freeze and alpha 1 seems too short. No, I ask why a core extension is developed outside php.net and synced from time to time. I think I made this point clear. Anyway, I don't have anything to say about this topic. I made my point clear hopefully, if not then it is pointless to argue endlessly about why maintaining a core extension outside php-src is a bad idea, we will never agree. -- Pierre http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Pierre Joye schrieb: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Ulf Wendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pierre Joye schrieb: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Ulf Wendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's your point, what requests are you talking about? Please ask Johannes, I told them to him live last time we met. If there is doubts, I will happily repeat them. So, you have one question related to Windows builds - I did not know that. According to Johannes you both have chatted on IRC about it after you met. The chat did not help to clearify the question. Can you rephrase the question, what version of PHP are we talking about? Can you reply to this? Ulf -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Pierre Joye wrote: I have no clue if Andrey has combined several fixes in one commit. At this point I have to rely on him choosing a proper granularity for a commit. Too large commits can always happen. You can work for a month in your local CVS copy and commit 100k at one - no difference. Except that nobody does that for daily jobs and fixes. The Zend guys are paid to develop and fix Zend. The Oracle guys support oci8 Google gives Marcus time to do open-source work. The company you work for supports you in your work on the PHP, because then they get first-class PHP developer in house. So, I am quite sure people are paid to do the work, one way or another. Best, Andrey -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 7:47 PM, Andrey Hristov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pierre Joye wrote: I have no clue if Andrey has combined several fixes in one commit. At this point I have to rely on him choosing a proper granularity for a commit. Too large commits can always happen. You can work for a month in your local CVS copy and commit 100k at one - no difference. Except that nobody does that for daily jobs and fixes. The Zend guys are paid to develop and fix Zend. The Oracle guys support oci8 Google gives Marcus time to do open-source work. The company you work for supports you in your work on the PHP, because then they get first-class PHP developer in house. So, I am quite sure people are paid to do the work, one way or another. That's not what I meant, by daily jobs I meant daily commits (be fix or adding a feature). Cheers, -- Pierre http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Pierre Joye wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 7:47 PM, Andrey Hristov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pierre Joye wrote: I have no clue if Andrey has combined several fixes in one commit. At this point I have to rely on him choosing a proper granularity for a commit. Too large commits can always happen. You can work for a month in your local CVS copy and commit 100k at one - no difference. Except that nobody does that for daily jobs and fixes. The Zend guys are paid to develop and fix Zend. The Oracle guys support oci8 Google gives Marcus time to do open-source work. The company you work for supports you in your work on the PHP, because then they get first-class PHP developer in house. So, I am quite sure people are paid to do the work, one way or another. That's not what I meant, by daily jobs I meant daily commits (be fix or adding a feature). What do you mean? That every addition should be committed daily in small chunks? A feature is a feature, it's integral. Because CVS hinders the easiness of work to commit several changeset from a local repository to the main one, even just announcing the patches, without even committing them to the main repository, shows that you will support some distributed RCS to be used for PHP. CVS is ok for 1-2 people touching the same code but not for cooperative development without much of external communication. Best, Andrey -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php-src /ext/mysql php_mysql.c /ext/mysqli mysqli.c /ext/mysqlnd mysqlnd.c mysqlnd_palloc.c mysqlnd_ps.c mysqlnd_wireprotocol.c
Marcus Boerger schrieb: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 4:32:10 PM, you wrote: Pierre Joye schrieb: Drop the launchpad and use php's cvs. We have actually two development branches (5.3 until the 24th and HEAD) and PECL. The latter let you experiment as much as you wish. Pierre, you are not in the position to tell us what repository we use for internal developments and experimental features. Or should I start flaming againt the developing of a new PHP parser at svn://whisky.macvicar.net/php-re2c . Looks like there are two classes of developers in your world. The bad and the good. The good can use their own repositories. The bad may not. And MySQL is bad. You really proove here that a) our communication needs to get better and that blogs don't help as they are ignored ffrom most developers. And b) we reallt need to most to a better repository like SVN or HG. Other than that, nobody tells you what you do or use. We just would like to know. And in regards to re2c I can only repeat what Scott said. It was a one time experiment that was announced on the list to be followed along and comitted as a whole as soon as agreed on (not when finished to be precise). You get me wrong. I know very well that blogs and development lists do have different target audiences. And I know that PHP development and development discussions do not only take place on the mailing lists but also on open and closed IRC channels as well as during public and private meeeting. I tried to follow the circus several years in the past but I settled down as you know... If I blog about PDO bugs and post bug summaries, its for the users and readers of the Planets. Being asked about the status, I would not hesitate to post a blog URL again over here. I am not asking for improvements around CVS. I am not convinced that a system should be used which can link to other repositories. The re2c decision is perfectly valid. Such as its valid to keep local copies of the CVS and work on them - even if those local copies reside in yet another repository. Marcus, we don't need to discuss the pros and cons of this in length. Your message has been clear in your first reply to the commit. Same goes for Jani (or a little later Lukas). Day-to-day mysqlnd changes shall go into the CVS as soon as possible. Andrey already explained that he applied hot fixes to the CVS (only) recently. Larger changes, new ideas might not go into HEAD in the first place but mature on the disk of the developer before they get published. This is not about commercial vs. non-commercial. There are no plans for commerical features in mysqlnd which would require a secret repository. The code will always go public. A little sooner without an internal review or a little later after a mandatory internal review. To me this seems similar to two PHP fellows discussing a patch in private for some time. I was recently asked about Unicode support in Postgres and MySQL. The question implied that Postgres is said to be ahead of MySQL. After all the years, I'm a bit tired of such questions. I replied with an enumeration of the advantages of the two systems. Hey, this reminds me a bit of this discussion. To reply to your last point: I don't think the communication between us is not working. For example, Jani's short reminder on open ext/mysqli bugs (try the search again...) is almost sure to cause a re-allocation of Andrey for a few days. And believe me, even those few days hurt and cause discussions. Ulf -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
