Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Autonomy just announced Q1 results with $194.2 million in revenue, apparently a record. Developers: push your product managers to pay reasonable licensing fees. You have No Idea... --Mark Storer Senior Software Engineer Cardiff.com import legalese.Disclaimer; DisclaimerCardiff DisCard = null; -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Original-Nachricht Datum: Fri, 7 May 2010 14:19:41 +0200 Von: TvT tvtre...@nepatec.de An: Post all your questions about iText here itext-questions@lists.sourceforge.net Betreff: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License Just read the whole thread and it sounded like the internal discussion we had in our company as well. As this isn't a technical discussion, I have asked sales to take a look at the thread. I think some points need to be clarified as I'm reading things that are taken out of their context. On a personal note: when I read about people who say let's start a fork, I feel the urge to give the fatherly advice not to make the same mistake I made by spending day and night, without taking any holiday whatsoever, working for free for over ten years for people who don't realize what it involves to provide good software. Unfortunately, that fatherly advice could be misinterpreted. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
People -- Call or write to Bruno's sales agent. If the cost/benefit of what iText offers doesn't make economic sense explain to him why it makes sense for Bruno's company to agree to different terms. For example, if the up-front amount is too high because you need the revenue from your software sales explain that. I can't say he'll agree but I've spoken to him and he is a long-term veteran in software sales, who understands the economics and cycles of software, and that neither Bruno nor anybody working with him wants to put you out of business. Forking the old code-base is a bad idea for two reasons. The first, like Bruno explained, is technical complexity. The second is much worse though: think about the message it sends to open-source authors. I can't think of any worse precedent than a bunch of people who forked a GPL license (or whatever the former license was) because they were too cheap to pay reasonable licensing fees. Additionally the original code-base may have accidental IP landmines -- contributions that weren't fully licensed -- that could be a lot more expensive long-term if your product does well. That was a problem with Linux early on, though many don't remember. Linus's team (and Red Hat and others), like Bruno, cleaned up the code. There were still legal challenges that cost a fortune but IBM, Novell, and others (thanks Google!) bore the brunt of the financial and logistical cost to blast them away; they're unlikely to extend that favor, which literally cost tens of millions of dollars, to people who refuse to pay reasonable licensing fees on iText. A third reason that needs explaining, more mushy but still legitimate, is Bruno himself. He's incredibly modest and soft spoken but has a young child and is working three jobs. I don't know how old many of the people writing are but there's a certain amount of fairness and respect to him that's being overlooked. As we get older and develop lives we should be paid for our work; able to live off it. I personally think Bruno should consider avoiding the headaches and just selling the whole code-base, then working for, Adobe or another large software company. Any of the major software vendors -- especially Adobe, MS, Apple, and probably Google, IBM, and others -- would happily have him and give him support, allow him to work a schedule that's more reasonable, and financial security. But he doesn't do that because of his devotion to open-source. Bruno and his team have worked hard and turned out a great product. Talk to his sales agent and listen to what he has to say. If the fees will never work for your product you may want to ask them why: you stand to get some good advice on software fees (hint: sometimes higher fees actually increase sales, which is counter-intuitive but well documented). Finally, look at Adobe's fee structure for client and server-side and embedded PDF generation technology. Michael. On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Bruno Lowagie br...@lowagie.com wrote: Original-Nachricht Datum: Fri, 7 May 2010 14:19:41 +0200 Von: TvT tvtre...@nepatec.de An: Post all your questions about iText here itext-questions@lists.sourceforge.net Betreff: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License Just read the whole thread and it sounded like the internal discussion we had in our company as well. As this isn't a technical discussion, I have asked sales to take a look at the thread. I think some points need to be clarified as I'm reading things that are taken out of their context. On a personal note: when I read about people who say let's start a fork, I feel the urge to give the fatherly advice not to make the same mistake I made by spending day and night, without taking any holiday whatsoever, working for free for over ten years for people who don't realize what it involves to provide good software. Unfortunately, that fatherly advice could be misinterpreted. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Michael Olenick wrote: People -- Call or write to Bruno's sales agent. Thanks! I've had a speed course in economics at http://www.vlerick.com/ last year, discovering there's more to the IT business than writing code. It's all about the business model, not just the business model used for iText, but also the business model of the end user/developer. You've explained that very well. We are using a license (be it the AGPL, or a commercial license) because that's better for everyone. If you choose the AGPL, you share your code. If you choose the commercial license, you share some of your revenue. The situation before the AGPL was not healthy. At some point, I had the impression I was being suffocated: plenty of people were mailing me personally, DEMANDING a solution for their problem. I didn't have any time to think about new code anymore, and that's not good: a good product has to offer continuity! Recently, I attended an event where I had a talk with a CEO of a company who had been using iText for years. He said that he was now looking for another free product because he could no longer use iText. I asked him how much switching to another library would cost in terms of development, and what he would do if that other free library decided to change its license too (because it's easy to run a F/OSS product if you're not successful, but it's a lot of hard work as soon as people actually start using it). He hadn't thought about that yet, but I saw that he realized that would probably cost him far more than to have another chat with sales. So it goes... -- This answer is provided by 1T3XT BVBA http://www.1t3xt.com/ - http://www.1t3xt.info -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 15:49:47 +0200 From: i...@1t3xt.info To: itext-questions@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License Michael Olenick wrote: People -- Call or write to Bruno's sales agent. Thanks! I've had a speed course in economics at http://www.vlerick.com/ last year, discovering there's more to the IT business than writing code. It's all about the business model, not just the business model used for iText, but also the business model of the end user/developer. I think many of the issues we come up against are actually due to thinking about business before technological issues. I won't mention any names, but if you know of any large publically traded companies that derive significant revenue due to PDF they then this may or may not relate to those entities. Walled gardens have most recently been tried by cell phone companies and if you search SEC filings for such terms, there as of late has been a recognition that they are bad for business- users and developers get mad. So, to the extent business comes before making useful products, something to consider. We all want to make money but creating artificial barriers and designing products that lock people into fixed vendors or ways of thinking is rarely helpful. _ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
I'm not trying to vote for a fork just pointing out that someone in this thread (or recent thread) said they DID fork; so if your thinking of doing the same you might want to share resources with one that already did the fork. -Dave On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 7:49 AM, 1T3XT info i...@1t3xt.info wrote: Michael Olenick wrote: People -- Call or write to Bruno's sales agent. Thanks! I've had a speed course in economics at http://www.vlerick.com/ last year, discovering there's more to the IT business than writing code. It's all about the business model, not just the business model used for iText, but also the business model of the end user/developer. You've explained that very well. We are using a license (be it the AGPL, or a commercial license) because that's better for everyone. If you choose the AGPL, you share your code. If you choose the commercial license, you share some of your revenue. The situation before the AGPL was not healthy. At some point, I had the impression I was being suffocated: plenty of people were mailing me personally, DEMANDING a solution for their problem. I didn't have any time to think about new code anymore, and that's not good: a good product has to offer continuity! Recently, I attended an event where I had a talk with a CEO of a company who had been using iText for years. He said that he was now looking for another free product because he could no longer use iText. I asked him how much switching to another library would cost in terms of development, and what he would do if that other free library decided to change its license too (because it's easy to run a F/OSS product if you're not successful, but it's a lot of hard work as soon as people actually start using it). He hadn't thought about that yet, but I saw that he realized that would probably cost him far more than to have another chat with sales. So it goes... -- This answer is provided by 1T3XT BVBA http://www.1t3xt.com/ - http://www.1t3xt.info -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Hi, while i agree with most of the comments but i want to add one more aspect of the picture: There are different kinds of open source libraries and i would like to differentiate in two groups (correct me if i am wrong here): 1. GPL like - when used in a project the sourcecode has to be opensourced also - thus in most cases not usable for commercial apps (then people buy a commercial license) 2. LGPL like - when used in a project the sourcecode needs not necessarily to be opensourced thus usable also for commercial apps I think there are different philosophies behind both licenses: 1. E.g. a company (or even an individual) tries to increase the usage of their library but still (financially) depend on it. In case somebody wants to use the library commercially and do not want to opensource their project they have to buy a license. Or if they want business level support or need additional features they will also buy a license. Thus the maintainer will make money out of it. 2. E.g. a big company/individual donates a project to the opensource community. It did earn money with it or not - but nobody expects to get more profit out of it. It is out of generosity, to do something for the greater good or just too good to be wasted in closed source bounds. Sometimes developers who orginally developed it 'freely' maintain it, are paid by their company for it or people contribute freely in their spare time... But it is important to point out when you decide to use a library (in a commercial setting) you have the following in mind: Decision for 1.) Normally use the library and in case of any bugs you will get support. But since one has the sourcecode it is possible to develop a quick hotfix in case of an urgent production problem. Decision for 2.) There is basically no support (in many cases there is no commercial license available). You have to take the lib 'as it is'. If something is needed YOU develop it yourself or pay somebody who does it for you. In most times there will be practically no documentation. = The money you invest you pay to your own developer who has to familiarize himself with the project, test it and in many cases there are bugs and features which are missing. So i think the problem is that iText started with the 'wrong' kind of license. Several factors of iText were like 1) style license (good documentation, good support etc.) however the license was a 2) style license. Furthermore Bruno you dedicated several years of hard work into it but didn't get much in return, due to the 2.) type license. Now however the users are not to blame (ok, maybe except for those who DEMANDED features insolently but then they didn't understand the license) - they just used the software according to the license (and in most cases didn't know that the author voluntarily worked is a** off.) Now the iText license was (understandably) changed to reflect the real world situation that somebody financially depends on it however many projects used the library under different initial conditions. So that's why many people think about forking because they also invested time to adapt the library, tested it, fixed bugs, contributed features, integrated it into their environment and stuff like that. They basically decided for license type 2.) but now it is switched to 1.) which practically wouldn't have arisen if iText started with the right license from the beginning. So now it is difficult to complain about a fork since the license change is practically forced upon them (even if it was communicated earlier). For instance what do I do if I have bug fixes for the last version of the old iText (2.1.7)? I can submit them and they will be integrated in a future release, which i currently can't use. If I go to my superiors and want (for them) out of the blue 10K to buy iText licenses they think i am insane ;-) - the project is long in production and there is no budget for it whatsoever. Don't get me wrong here - of course when a new project come's up I will adapt to the new (license) situation and evaluate if i go that route. In that case the licenses are then part of the whole budget calculation from the beginning... Just my two cents, ToM 2010/5/11 David Hoffer dhoff...@gmail.com I'm not trying to vote for a fork just pointing out that someone in this thread (or recent thread) said they DID fork; so if your thinking of doing the same you might want to share resources with one that already did the fork. -Dave On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 7:49 AM, 1T3XT info i...@1t3xt.info wrote: Michael Olenick wrote: People -- Call or write to Bruno's sales agent. Thanks! I've had a speed course in economics at http://www.vlerick.com/ last year, discovering there's more to the IT business than writing code. It's all about the business model, not just the business model used for iText, but also the business model of the end user/developer. You've explained that very well. We are using a license (be it the AGPL,
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
I suspect you're thinking of me. I maintain a fork that was originally from paulo 144, and was (mostly) ported to 2.0.4 relatively recently. It's really not for Public Consumption. Lots of Cardiff-specific cruft in there, along with a couple patches/features that were rejected from the trunk because they caused problems when you use iText in a way other than the way I do. Yes, we run the unit tests, but those tests (clearly) aren't all that comprehensive. That's what the users are for! :/ Autonomy (of which Cardiff is a part) has a we don't pay for 3rd party licenses thing going on. With that policy in place, we can never use the post-AGPL version. Or can we? Should it come to it, I suspect we might be able to trade some developer hours (mine) for a license, but it has not come to that, so we haven't explored it with iTextSoftware (yet). --Mark Storer Senior Software Engineer Cardiff.com import legalese.Disclaimer; DisclaimerCardiff DisCard = null; -Original Message- From: David Hoffer [mailto:dhoff...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 7:09 AM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License I'm not trying to vote for a fork just pointing out that someone in this thread (or recent thread) said they DID fork; so if your thinking of doing the same you might want to share resources with one that already did the fork. -Dave On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 7:49 AM, 1T3XT info i...@1t3xt.info wrote: Michael Olenick wrote: People -- Call or write to Bruno's sales agent. Thanks! I've had a speed course in economics at http://www.vlerick.com/ last year, discovering there's more to the IT business than writing code. It's all about the business model, not just the business model used for iText, but also the business model of the end user/developer. You've explained that very well. We are using a license (be it the AGPL, or a commercial license) because that's better for everyone. If you choose the AGPL, you share your code. If you choose the commercial license, you share some of your revenue. The situation before the AGPL was not healthy. At some point, I had the impression I was being suffocated: plenty of people were mailing me personally, DEMANDING a solution for their problem. I didn't have any time to think about new code anymore, and that's not good: a good product has to offer continuity! Recently, I attended an event where I had a talk with a CEO of a company who had been using iText for years. He said that he was now looking for another free product because he could no longer use iText. I asked him how much switching to another library would cost in terms of development, and what he would do if that other free library decided to change its license too (because it's easy to run a F/OSS product if you're not successful, but it's a lot of hard work as soon as people actually start using it). He hadn't thought about that yet, but I saw that he realized that would probably cost him far more than to have another chat with sales. So it goes... -- This answer is provided by 1T3XT BVBA http://www.1t3xt.com/ - http://www.1t3xt.info -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2842 - Release Date: 05/10/10 23:26:00 -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Autonomy just announced Q1 results with $194.2 million in revenue, apparently a record. Developers: push your product managers to pay reasonable licensing fees. It's not easy and they'll bicker but giving a sharp nudge to them, and making them at least try, can make a real difference. Michael. On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Mark Storer msto...@autonomy.com wrote: I suspect you're thinking of me. I maintain a fork that was originally from paulo 144, and was (mostly) ported to 2.0.4 relatively recently. It's really not for Public Consumption. Lots of Cardiff-specific cruft in there, along with a couple patches/features that were rejected from the trunk because they caused problems when you use iText in a way other than the way I do. Yes, we run the unit tests, but those tests (clearly) aren't all that comprehensive. That's what the users are for! :/ Autonomy (of which Cardiff is a part) has a we don't pay for 3rd party licenses thing going on. With that policy in place, we can never use the post-AGPL version. Or can we? Should it come to it, I suspect we might be able to trade some developer hours (mine) for a license, but it has not come to that, so we haven't explored it with iTextSoftware (yet). --Mark Storer Senior Software Engineer Cardiff.com import legalese.Disclaimer; DisclaimerCardiff DisCard = null; -Original Message- From: David Hoffer [mailto:dhoff...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 7:09 AM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License I'm not trying to vote for a fork just pointing out that someone in this thread (or recent thread) said they DID fork; so if your thinking of doing the same you might want to share resources with one that already did the fork. -Dave On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 7:49 AM, 1T3XT info i...@1t3xt.info wrote: Michael Olenick wrote: People -- Call or write to Bruno's sales agent. Thanks! I've had a speed course in economics at http://www.vlerick.com/ last year, discovering there's more to the IT business than writing code. It's all about the business model, not just the business model used for iText, but also the business model of the end user/developer. You've explained that very well. We are using a license (be it the AGPL, or a commercial license) because that's better for everyone. If you choose the AGPL, you share your code. If you choose the commercial license, you share some of your revenue. The situation before the AGPL was not healthy. At some point, I had the impression I was being suffocated: plenty of people were mailing me personally, DEMANDING a solution for their problem. I didn't have any time to think about new code anymore, and that's not good: a good product has to offer continuity! Recently, I attended an event where I had a talk with a CEO of a company who had been using iText for years. He said that he was now looking for another free product because he could no longer use iText. I asked him how much switching to another library would cost in terms of development, and what he would do if that other free library decided to change its license too (because it's easy to run a F/OSS product if you're not successful, but it's a lot of hard work as soon as people actually start using it). He hadn't thought about that yet, but I saw that he realized that would probably cost him far more than to have another chat with sales. So it goes... -- This answer is provided by 1T3XT BVBA http://www.1t3xt.com/ - http://www.1t3xt.info -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2842 - Release Date: 05/10/10 23:26:00 -- ___ iText-questions mailing list
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
We also thought about making a fork for bug-fixing and improvements for concurrent-algorithms. Please write me if you want to start a fork. Kind regards Sebastian Original-Nachricht Datum: Fri, 7 May 2010 14:19:41 +0200 Von: TvT tvtre...@nepatec.de An: Post all your questions about iText here itext-questions@lists.sourceforge.net Betreff: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License Just read the whole thread and it sounded like the internal discussion we had in our company as well. We are willing to pay for such a great lib, however not 10K-12,5K which would basically eat up the budget. Of course one can argue that the project calculation/budget is wrong but reality is more complicated than that... So currently we are using 2.1.7 and we are fine, even thought of making a fork to that version... The idea of a 'per developer license' sounds interesting to me... Good discussion, ToM 2010/4/25 Michael Schmodt michael.schm...@googlemail.com 2010/4/25 David Hoffer dhoff...@gmail.com I don't disagree with the last couple replies, however I will point out that iText is the one that caused the mis-expectations on price. Since prior versions cost $0 it is quite a shock to learn that new versions cost $12,500. (Please understand I'm not saying $0 is the right price.) What makes it even harder is that there are no published prices for the new version of iText. Unless your doing waterfall development (so you think you know everything up front) you don't always know what's needed at the beginning. If I would go to my customer with a Y charge of $12,500 that would be the end of it. I'm only saying all this because I was asked to explain, in my case the older 2.x version is just fine and FOP a viable option if iText continues with the current pricing. I agree with Dave! I think, it is fair to pay the iText developers for their fantastic work. I do not have a problem with that. The problem: For my customers, it is completely irrelevant, what investments I have to do, to build an application. They give me 5000 bucks in total to deliver a programm. If there are license fees, it's me who has to deal with it. If I do not comply, somebody else get's the job. The applications aren't targeted at the mass market, so there aren't huge numbers of copies of the programms. When calculating the price, it's about 7% or 12 $ per programm that I earn (minus costs, taxes ...). I do not have exact numbers, but that should be quite representative. I surely can agree, that the customer and not the developer should care about the license, but unfortunately, that is not the way life is. The customers are from non IT businesses who want additions/extension to existing non IT products. They never heard of LGPL, GPL, AGPL or license fees for software libraries. I agree with Dave, that 300 $ would be perfectly fine and after all, 300$ from single developers is for you as well a question of getting 300$ or getting no fees and letting developer stick with earlier versions of itext or using other libraries. I hope, I didn't upset you. This is not what I want. As I said, I like iText very much and would like to use it in the future. I respect your decission to change the license and to get a share from the profits of those, who use your lib. Try to see this debate as a valuable feedback to determine optimal prices for the lib, that can maximize your income as well. By, Michael -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Just read the whole thread and it sounded like the internal discussion we had in our company as well. We are willing to pay for such a great lib, however not 10K-12,5K which would basically eat up the budget. Of course one can argue that the project calculation/budget is wrong but reality is more complicated than that... So currently we are using 2.1.7 and we are fine, even thought of making a fork to that version... The idea of a 'per developer license' sounds interesting to me... Good discussion, ToM 2010/4/25 Michael Schmodt michael.schm...@googlemail.com 2010/4/25 David Hoffer dhoff...@gmail.com I don't disagree with the last couple replies, however I will point out that iText is the one that caused the mis-expectations on price. Since prior versions cost $0 it is quite a shock to learn that new versions cost $12,500. (Please understand I'm not saying $0 is the right price.) What makes it even harder is that there are no published prices for the new version of iText. Unless your doing waterfall development (so you think you know everything up front) you don't always know what's needed at the beginning. If I would go to my customer with a Y charge of $12,500 that would be the end of it. I'm only saying all this because I was asked to explain, in my case the older 2.x version is just fine and FOP a viable option if iText continues with the current pricing. I agree with Dave! I think, it is fair to pay the iText developers for their fantastic work. I do not have a problem with that. The problem: For my customers, it is completely irrelevant, what investments I have to do, to build an application. They give me 5000 bucks in total to deliver a programm. If there are license fees, it's me who has to deal with it. If I do not comply, somebody else get's the job. The applications aren't targeted at the mass market, so there aren't huge numbers of copies of the programms. When calculating the price, it's about 7% or 12 $ per programm that I earn (minus costs, taxes ...). I do not have exact numbers, but that should be quite representative. I surely can agree, that the customer and not the developer should care about the license, but unfortunately, that is not the way life is. The customers are from non IT businesses who want additions/extension to existing non IT products. They never heard of LGPL, GPL, AGPL or license fees for software libraries. I agree with Dave, that 300 $ would be perfectly fine and after all, 300$ from single developers is for you as well a question of getting 300$ or getting no fees and letting developer stick with earlier versions of itext or using other libraries. I hope, I didn't upset you. This is not what I want. As I said, I like iText very much and would like to use it in the future. I respect your decission to change the license and to get a share from the profits of those, who use your lib. Try to see this debate as a valuable feedback to determine optimal prices for the lib, that can maximize your income as well. By, Michael -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Cameron Laird wrote: On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 3:45 PM, David Hoffer dhoff...@gmail.com mailto:dhoff...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Michael, I feel your pain, I am in similar situation. The commercial side of the licensing is geared for very big projects only, nothing small. I had no choice but to use 2.x and FOP will be next if I need more. Again I don't need free but I need something manageable. ... Me, three. What is the problem? Instead of complaining, you should start explaining. There are very cheap licenses for iText, cheaper than what is claimed here. Although more expensive than the $5 some people want to pay, which is kind of insulting, don't you agree? OF COURSE: the price depends on the usage of iText. I'm getting pretty tired of people saying iText sucks only because the license changed to AGPL. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
What is the problem? Instead of complaining, you should start explaining. There are very cheap licenses for iText, cheaper than what is claimed here. Although more expensive than the $5 some people want to pay, which is kind of insulting, don't you agree? Hi Bruno, the license fees for desktop applications start with 3000 $ for the deployment of 250 copies and they go up to 25000 $. This is not payable for projects, that have a budget of 5000 $ in total. I would greatly appriciate if there would be an option to obtain per developer licenses with no fees for deployment, just like many other libraries handle this. Bye, Michael -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
P.S. I can post the mail from the sales department with the licensing details, if you want. The prices are not my idea, but I received the list from itextsoftware.com. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Michael Schmodt wrote: P.S. I can post the mail from the sales department with the licensing details, if you want. The prices are not my idea, but I received the list from itextsoftware.com http://itextsoftware.com. I think you should post this to sa...@itextpdf.com because I think you are mixing different things. Seems like you are talking about the prices for an OEM license, but you sound like you need a limited number of simple end user licenses (end users who don't not distribute the product). There's a huge difference. Note that I know very little about the actual pricing. So it's best to discuss this with sales. On a personal note: What is the return on a /product/ that is made with a budget of only $5000? That's a product involving about 5 days of work (European price for a senior developer; imagine how much money I'm giving away giving free advice on this list). I don't understand. Wouldn't it be better to publish such a low-budget product for free and make it AGPL? Or are you talking about a /project/ you're doing for a customer who only pays $5000? In that case, why are you talking about OEM prices? -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Hi Bruno, thank you very much for the clarification. I wrote to sa...@itextpdf.com and described what type of application I am developing. I am programming as a freelancer for customers who pay me and the 5000 $ is the wage for the whole projects that take about one month (and not 5 days) to complete. The customers themselves publish the applications.I neither have details about the sales numbers, nor do I have the possibility to open source the applications. From sa...@itextpdf.com I received the information, that I needed an OEM license with the given prices. Obviously, there was a communication problem and I will write to sa...@itextpdf.com again. I hope, there is the possibility to find a compromise, because I otherwise would have to stop using itext, which I really like. Maybe it could help to openly communicate license details for commercial licenses on the net in order to avoid misunderstandings. So, what license is needed in this case in order to get things right this time? Bye, Michael 2010/4/25 Bruno Lowagie br...@lowagie.com Michael Schmodt wrote: P.S. I can post the mail from the sales department with the licensing details, if you want. The prices are not my idea, but I received the list from itextsoftware.com http://itextsoftware.com. I think you should post this to sa...@itextpdf.com because I think you are mixing different things. Seems like you are talking about the prices for an OEM license, but you sound like you need a limited number of simple end user licenses (end users who don't not distribute the product). There's a huge difference. Note that I know very little about the actual pricing. So it's best to discuss this with sales. On a personal note: What is the return on a /product/ that is made with a budget of only $5000? That's a product involving about 5 days of work (European price for a senior developer; imagine how much money I'm giving away giving free advice on this list). I don't understand. Wouldn't it be better to publish such a low-budget product for free and make it AGPL? Or are you talking about a /project/ you're doing for a customer who only pays $5000? In that case, why are you talking about OEM prices? -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
In my case I was quoted a minimum charge of $1500 and a max of $12,500 depending on the number of end users. All charges except the maximum require quarterly reporting of the number of end users. The problems with this are many. I too am a freelance programmer developing a small app for a client. I have no way of know how many users will use the application (but since its a start-up I doubt very many), so to avoid the maximum charge I'd have to build in a end user counting framework to the app (that adds to my costs) then there is the question of how to report this data (my client couldn't care less about my need to report so I'd have to build in some auto report sending mechanism which adds to my costs. So all this rules out all but the 12,500 option which is several times the pay I am getting for this small app. Obviously these rates make no economic/business sense. Now let me tell you what does make sense. I did purchase a GUI framework library for the app at at cost of about $800. That was a high percentage of the pay I'm getting but I felt like it was worth the cost. I consider the PDF part to be less critical than the UI (I could have used HTML for instance...but PDF has some nicer features) so I would expect to pay less than $800. I was not hoping to pay just $5 as mentioned somewhere in this thread but given my usage of iText I think about $300 would be fair. (Plus I've already paid the $70 or so for the latest revised iText book) Just wondering, if you are proud of your rates for iText why not publish them on the web? -Dave On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 5:50 AM, Michael Schmodt michael.schm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Bruno, thank you very much for the clarification. I wrote to sa...@itextpdf.com and described what type of application I am developing. I am programming as a freelancer for customers who pay me and the 5000 $ is the wage for the whole projects that take about one month (and not 5 days) to complete. The customers themselves publish the applications.I neither have details about the sales numbers, nor do I have the possibility to open source the applications. From sa...@itextpdf.com I received the information, that I needed an OEM license with the given prices. Obviously, there was a communication problem and I will write to sa...@itextpdf.com again. I hope, there is the possibility to find a compromise, because I otherwise would have to stop using itext, which I really like. Maybe it could help to openly communicate license details for commercial licenses on the net in order to avoid misunderstandings. So, what license is needed in this case in order to get things right this time? Bye, Michael 2010/4/25 Bruno Lowagie br...@lowagie.com Michael Schmodt wrote: P.S. I can post the mail from the sales department with the licensing details, if you want. The prices are not my idea, but I received the list from itextsoftware.com http://itextsoftware.com. I think you should post this to sa...@itextpdf.com because I think you are mixing different things. Seems like you are talking about the prices for an OEM license, but you sound like you need a limited number of simple end user licenses (end users who don't not distribute the product). There's a huge difference. Note that I know very little about the actual pricing. So it's best to discuss this with sales. On a personal note: What is the return on a /product/ that is made with a budget of only $5000? That's a product involving about 5 days of work (European price for a senior developer; imagine how much money I'm giving away giving free advice on this list). I don't understand. Wouldn't it be better to publish such a low-budget product for free and make it AGPL? Or are you talking about a /project/ you're doing for a customer who only pays $5000? In that case, why are you talking about OEM prices? -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ -- ___
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Michael Schmodt wrote: I am programming as a freelancer for customers who pay me and the 5000 $ is the wage for the whole project that take about one month. In that case, you are building tailor made solutions for customer. That's not the same as building a commercial product. You should ask for prices for an End User license for your customer. The customers themselves publish the applications. The price of the license could depend on the way your customers use your project. For instance: if your customer is Google and your project is used by millions of people, then you are not charging enough ;-) But if your customer is a local SMB who needs to create invoices for a couple of hundred customers, then the price of an end user license should be affordable (but I don't know the exact prices, I'm an iText developer, not a sales person). Obviously, there was a communication problem and I will write to sa...@itextpdf.com mailto:sa...@itextpdf.com again. I hope, there is the possibility to find a compromise, I hope so too. best regards, Bruno -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
For those of you doing freelance/consulting development, what you should be doing is having yoru client take care of the licensing with iText Software - NOT YOU. You are paid to develop something for them, but that doesn't mean that your project can't be based on other technologies that they are required to purchase/license in addition to your work. When I used to do consulting, I made this clear to the customer upfront that they would pay me X for my work but also needed to pay Y to license other components. Never had an issue, because the details were done upfront. Certainly, if you try to change things after the contract, then I agree - that would be a problem. And assuming you are delivering source code to the customer and not binary, then you simply don’t provide iText and they are on their own to acquire it and build the final app. If you are delivering binary, that's a different issue. Leonard -Original Message- From: David Hoffer [mailto:dhoff...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:29 AM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License In my case I was quoted a minimum charge of $1500 and a max of $12,500 depending on the number of end users. All charges except the maximum require quarterly reporting of the number of end users. The problems with this are many. I too am a freelance programmer developing a small app for a client. I have no way of know how many users will use the application (but since its a start-up I doubt very many), so to avoid the maximum charge I'd have to build in a end user counting framework to the app (that adds to my costs) then there is the question of how to report this data (my client couldn't care less about my need to report so I'd have to build in some auto report sending mechanism which adds to my costs. So all this rules out all but the 12,500 option which is several times the pay I am getting for this small app. Obviously these rates make no economic/business sense. Now let me tell you what does make sense. I did purchase a GUI framework library for the app at at cost of about $800. That was a high percentage of the pay I'm getting but I felt like it was worth the cost. I consider the PDF part to be less critical than the UI (I could have used HTML for instance...but PDF has some nicer features) so I would expect to pay less than $800. I was not hoping to pay just $5 as mentioned somewhere in this thread but given my usage of iText I think about $300 would be fair. (Plus I've already paid the $70 or so for the latest revised iText book) Just wondering, if you are proud of your rates for iText why not publish them on the web? -Dave On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 5:50 AM, Michael Schmodt michael.schm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Bruno, thank you very much for the clarification. I wrote to sa...@itextpdf.com and described what type of application I am developing. I am programming as a freelancer for customers who pay me and the 5000 $ is the wage for the whole projects that take about one month (and not 5 days) to complete. The customers themselves publish the applications.I neither have details about the sales numbers, nor do I have the possibility to open source the applications. From sa...@itextpdf.com I received the information, that I needed an OEM license with the given prices. Obviously, there was a communication problem and I will write to sa...@itextpdf.com again. I hope, there is the possibility to find a compromise, because I otherwise would have to stop using itext, which I really like. Maybe it could help to openly communicate license details for commercial licenses on the net in order to avoid misunderstandings. So, what license is needed in this case in order to get things right this time? Bye, Michael 2010/4/25 Bruno Lowagie br...@lowagie.com Michael Schmodt wrote: P.S. I can post the mail from the sales department with the licensing details, if you want. The prices are not my idea, but I received the list from itextsoftware.com http://itextsoftware.com. I think you should post this to sa...@itextpdf.com because I think you are mixing different things. Seems like you are talking about the prices for an OEM license, but you sound like you need a limited number of simple end user licenses (end users who don't not distribute the product). There's a huge difference. Note that I know very little about the actual pricing. So it's best to discuss this with sales. On a personal note: What is the return on a /product/ that is made with a budget of only $5000? That's a product involving about 5 days of work (European price for a senior developer; imagine how much money I'm giving away giving free advice on this list). I don't understand. Wouldn't it be better to publish such a low-budget product for free and make it AGPL? Or are you talking about a /project/ you're doing for a customer who
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
I don't disagree with the last couple replies, however I will point out that iText is the one that caused the mis-expectations on price. Since prior versions cost $0 it is quite a shock to learn that new versions cost $12,500. (Please understand I'm not saying $0 is the right price.) What makes it even harder is that there are no published prices for the new version of iText. Unless your doing waterfall development (so you think you know everything up front) you don't always know what's needed at the beginning. If I would go to my customer with a Y charge of $12,500 that would be the end of it. I'm only saying all this because I was asked to explain, in my case the older 2.x version is just fine and FOP a viable option if iText continues with the current pricing. -Dave On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Leonard Rosenthol lrose...@adobe.com wrote: For those of you doing freelance/consulting development, what you should be doing is having yoru client take care of the licensing with iText Software - NOT YOU. You are paid to develop something for them, but that doesn't mean that your project can't be based on other technologies that they are required to purchase/license in addition to your work. When I used to do consulting, I made this clear to the customer upfront that they would pay me X for my work but also needed to pay Y to license other components. Never had an issue, because the details were done upfront. Certainly, if you try to change things after the contract, then I agree - that would be a problem. And assuming you are delivering source code to the customer and not binary, then you simply don’t provide iText and they are on their own to acquire it and build the final app. If you are delivering binary, that's a different issue. Leonard -Original Message- From: David Hoffer [mailto:dhoff...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:29 AM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License In my case I was quoted a minimum charge of $1500 and a max of $12,500 depending on the number of end users. All charges except the maximum require quarterly reporting of the number of end users. The problems with this are many. I too am a freelance programmer developing a small app for a client. I have no way of know how many users will use the application (but since its a start-up I doubt very many), so to avoid the maximum charge I'd have to build in a end user counting framework to the app (that adds to my costs) then there is the question of how to report this data (my client couldn't care less about my need to report so I'd have to build in some auto report sending mechanism which adds to my costs. So all this rules out all but the 12,500 option which is several times the pay I am getting for this small app. Obviously these rates make no economic/business sense. Now let me tell you what does make sense. I did purchase a GUI framework library for the app at at cost of about $800. That was a high percentage of the pay I'm getting but I felt like it was worth the cost. I consider the PDF part to be less critical than the UI (I could have used HTML for instance...but PDF has some nicer features) so I would expect to pay less than $800. I was not hoping to pay just $5 as mentioned somewhere in this thread but given my usage of iText I think about $300 would be fair. (Plus I've already paid the $70 or so for the latest revised iText book) Just wondering, if you are proud of your rates for iText why not publish them on the web? -Dave On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 5:50 AM, Michael Schmodt michael.schm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Bruno, thank you very much for the clarification. I wrote to sa...@itextpdf.com and described what type of application I am developing. I am programming as a freelancer for customers who pay me and the 5000 $ is the wage for the whole projects that take about one month (and not 5 days) to complete. The customers themselves publish the applications.I neither have details about the sales numbers, nor do I have the possibility to open source the applications. From sa...@itextpdf.com I received the information, that I needed an OEM license with the given prices. Obviously, there was a communication problem and I will write to sa...@itextpdf.com again. I hope, there is the possibility to find a compromise, because I otherwise would have to stop using itext, which I really like. Maybe it could help to openly communicate license details for commercial licenses on the net in order to avoid misunderstandings. So, what license is needed in this case in order to get things right this time? Bye, Michael 2010/4/25 Bruno Lowagie br...@lowagie.com Michael Schmodt wrote: P.S. I can post the mail from the sales department with the licensing details, if you want. The prices are not my idea, but I received the list from
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
2010/4/25 David Hoffer dhoff...@gmail.com I don't disagree with the last couple replies, however I will point out that iText is the one that caused the mis-expectations on price. Since prior versions cost $0 it is quite a shock to learn that new versions cost $12,500. (Please understand I'm not saying $0 is the right price.) What makes it even harder is that there are no published prices for the new version of iText. Unless your doing waterfall development (so you think you know everything up front) you don't always know what's needed at the beginning. If I would go to my customer with a Y charge of $12,500 that would be the end of it. I'm only saying all this because I was asked to explain, in my case the older 2.x version is just fine and FOP a viable option if iText continues with the current pricing. I agree with Dave! I think, it is fair to pay the iText developers for their fantastic work. I do not have a problem with that. The problem: For my customers, it is completely irrelevant, what investments I have to do, to build an application. They give me 5000 bucks in total to deliver a programm. If there are license fees, it's me who has to deal with it. If I do not comply, somebody else get's the job. The applications aren't targeted at the mass market, so there aren't huge numbers of copies of the programms. When calculating the price, it's about 7% or 12 $ per programm that I earn (minus costs, taxes ...). I do not have exact numbers, but that should be quite representative. I surely can agree, that the customer and not the developer should care about the license, but unfortunately, that is not the way life is. The customers are from non IT businesses who want additions/extension to existing non IT products. They never heard of LGPL, GPL, AGPL or license fees for software libraries. I agree with Dave, that 300 $ would be perfectly fine and after all, 300$ from single developers is for you as well a question of getting 300$ or getting no fees and letting developer stick with earlier versions of itext or using other libraries. I hope, I didn't upset you. This is not what I want. As I said, I like iText very much and would like to use it in the future. I respect your decission to change the license and to get a share from the profits of those, who use your lib. Try to see this debate as a valuable feedback to determine optimal prices for the lib, that can maximize your income as well. By, Michael -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Michael Olenick wrote: Bruno should not have to deal with either. Thanks for yet another insightful contribution to the mailing list. As I explained in my previous mail, my main focus right now is the book, but this thread is bookmarked for when I have the time to talk to the sales people about pricing and products. I've just downloaded the list of conferences provided by Manning. Maybe this is something that can be discussed in an after-session on a conference. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Michael Schmodt wrote: I hope, I didn't upset you. This is not what I want. As I said, I like iText very much and would like to use it in the future. I respect your decission to change the license and to get a share from the profits of those, who use your lib. Try to see this debate as a valuable feedback to determine optimal prices for the lib, that can maximize your income as well. This is all very interesting information for me. I'll discuss it with the sales people when the time is right. (That is: after I've met the final deadline for the book.) Dave: I don't know the rates for iText, I can only see the revenue. I have a dayjob at the University AND I develop AND I write a book. I'm combining three half time jobs for the moment. Therefore I don't have the time to do sales at this moment. About the book: it's $59.99 (paper) or $34.99 (ebook), and I only get 10% Royalty on the profits. About 11.000 copies were sold of the first edition, generating about $28,000 in Royalties. That's an average of $2.50 revenue per book for me as the author. (When people buy the book from Manning, I get more; when people get it from Amazon, I get close to nothing because the profits on a book sold through Amazon are much lower.) The first book took me 3 months of preparation, 6 months of writing, the production phase took 9 months (but that was exceptional: at first Manning didn't want to publish the book, so I had to do a marketing survey first). During those months, my half time job at the University was my only source of revenue. The second edition took only a month of preparation, and about 7 months to write (because I created a new set of examples). The production phase should be much shorter than for the first edition. Hmm... this isn't about licenses anymore, but the book is my main focus for the moment, and this info may be interesting for people who want to start writing a book ;-) best regards, Bruno -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Bruno, That's good information. IMHO, the price of your book is a steal...lots of good information for $60. I purchased through Manning and paid $65.24 with all fees/etc. No problem with that. I hope you sell lots of copies so you can make up in volume what you loose in what seems a low royalty %. Yes when you have time to consider the cost of commercial licensing I hope you can see that here too you might want to consider much lower prices and make it up in volume as the current costs make it a non-viable option in my case and in the case of others too if this email thread is any guide. I too hope to not have upset you. I don't know a lot about iText (yet) but is seems a very good product. -Dave On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Bruno Lowagie br...@lowagie.com wrote: Michael Schmodt wrote: I hope, I didn't upset you. This is not what I want. As I said, I like iText very much and would like to use it in the future. I respect your decission to change the license and to get a share from the profits of those, who use your lib. Try to see this debate as a valuable feedback to determine optimal prices for the lib, that can maximize your income as well. This is all very interesting information for me. I'll discuss it with the sales people when the time is right. (That is: after I've met the final deadline for the book.) Dave: I don't know the rates for iText, I can only see the revenue. I have a dayjob at the University AND I develop AND I write a book. I'm combining three half time jobs for the moment. Therefore I don't have the time to do sales at this moment. About the book: it's $59.99 (paper) or $34.99 (ebook), and I only get 10% Royalty on the profits. About 11.000 copies were sold of the first edition, generating about $28,000 in Royalties. That's an average of $2.50 revenue per book for me as the author. (When people buy the book from Manning, I get more; when people get it from Amazon, I get close to nothing because the profits on a book sold through Amazon are much lower.) The first book took me 3 months of preparation, 6 months of writing, the production phase took 9 months (but that was exceptional: at first Manning didn't want to publish the book, so I had to do a marketing survey first). During those months, my half time job at the University was my only source of revenue. The second edition took only a month of preparation, and about 7 months to write (because I created a new set of examples). The production phase should be much shorter than for the first edition. Hmm... this isn't about licenses anymore, but the book is my main focus for the moment, and this info may be interesting for people who want to start writing a book ;-) best regards, Bruno -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Hi Campus, as far as I can see, there are different licenses depending on the type of application. For desktop installations (when itext is shipped with an application) for the first 250 desktop installations you have to pay 3000 $ and it goes up to 25 000 $ for 5 000 to 50 000 copies. So it gets cheaper for huge projects und you can obtain a license without restrictions for a price, that I do not know. I guess, big players on the software market will have no problem with that, but that surely doesn't account for most software developers especially if they work as single developers. You are obliged to report sales quaterly by the way. One support case is included (but for myself I wouldn't need support). Bye, Michael That's an interesting topic. Just being curious: What's the amount to pay for a commercial iText license? We had the same problem and decided to fork iText 2.1.7. We are also heavily working on that base trying to refactor all these bad little things out of the code and applying additional fixes. I would happily pay some money to get a lib and support but with the currently non-existent professional support for iText asking for money does not represent the state of the project at least to me. Just my 2c, Campus -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 3:45 PM, David Hoffer dhoff...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Michael, I feel your pain, I am in similar situation. The commercial side of the licensing is geared for very big projects only, nothing small. I had no choice but to use 2.x and FOP will be next if I need more. Again I don't need free but I need something manageable. ... Me, three. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Paulo Soares psoa...@glintt.com wrote: If you're using it in an intranet you don't have to do anything. If you're exposing the service to the exterior either you provide the source code of your application or you buy a commercial license. ... What does intranet mean in this context? Is a license required if the Web application is restricted to faculty in a particular department of a particular university [my speculation: that is an intranet, and the license requires nothing further]? What if such a faculty member reaches the departmental application from a Web browser at his home off-campus [my speculation: that is *not* an intranet, and source-code-or-license is required]? What if the departmental application is open to academic collaborators who might potentially be based anywhere in the (IP-connected) world [my speculation: that is even less of an intranet, and source-code-or-license is required--but it's really not very commercial, as the purpose is only to promote academic research]? Thank you, Paulo, for your help in these matters. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
The intranet I was referring to was in a company where it's only accessed by the employees. In an University the same would apply for faculty members but not for students or faculty members from other Universities. Paulo From: Cameron Laird [claird.visipr...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 1:45 PM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Paulo Soares psoa...@glintt.commailto:psoa...@glintt.com wrote: If you're using it in an intranet you don't have to do anything. If you're exposing the service to the exterior either you provide the source code of your application or you buy a commercial license. ... What does intranet mean in this context? Is a license required if the Web application is restricted to faculty in a particular department of a particular university [my speculation: that is an intranet, and the license requires nothing further]? What if such a faculty member reaches the departmental application from a Web browser at his home off-campus [my speculation: that is *not* an intranet, and source-code-or-license is required]? What if the departmental application is open to academic collaborators who might potentially be based anywhere in the (IP-connected) world [my speculation: that is even less of an intranet, and source-code-or-license is required--but it's really not very commercial, as the purpose is only to promote academic research]? Thank you, Paulo, for your help in these matters. Aviso Legal: Esta mensagem é destinada exclusivamente ao destinatário. Pode conter informação confidencial ou legalmente protegida. A incorrecta transmissão desta mensagem não significa a perca de confidencialidade. Se esta mensagem for recebida por engano, por favor envie-a de volta para o remetente e apague-a do seu sistema de imediato. É proibido a qualquer pessoa que não o destinatário de usar, revelar ou distribuir qualquer parte desta mensagem. Disclaimer: This message is destined exclusively to the intended receiver. It may contain confidential or legally protected information. The incorrect transmission of this message does not mean the loss of its confidentiality. If this message is received by mistake, please send it back to the sender and delete it from your system immediately. It is forbidden to any person who is not the intended receiver to use, distribute or copy any part of this message. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
In our case, we will have a Websphere running on the server side with iText 5 jar file, our intranet employees will use browsers to view and print the pdf files generated by the iText, then send the printed the document to external users. Do we need a commercial license in this case? Many thanks! Tao From: Paulo Soares [mailto:psoa...@glintt.com] Sent: April 22, 2010 9:08 AM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License The intranet I was referring to was in a company where it's only accessed by the employees. In an University the same would apply for faculty members but not for students or faculty members from other Universities. Paulo From: Cameron Laird [claird.visipr...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 1:45 PM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Paulo Soares psoa...@glintt.com wrote: If you're using it in an intranet you don't have to do anything. If you're exposing the service to the exterior either you provide the source code of your application or you buy a commercial license. ... What does intranet mean in this context? Is a license required if the Web application is restricted to faculty in a particular department of a particular university [my speculation: that is an intranet, and the license requires nothing further]? What if such a faculty member reaches the departmental application from a Web browser at his home off-campus [my speculation: that is *not* an intranet, and source-code-or-license is required]? What if the departmental application is open to academic collaborators who might potentially be based anywhere in the (IP-connected) world [my speculation: that is even less of an intranet, and source-code-or-license is required--but it's really not very commercial, as the purpose is only to promote academic research]? Thank you, Paulo, for your help in these matters. Aviso Legal: Esta mensagem é destinada exclusivamente ao destinatário. Pode conter informação confidencial ou legalmente protegida. A incorrecta transmissão desta mensagem não significa a perca de confidencialidade. Se esta mensagem for recebida por engano, por favor envie-a de volta para o remetente e apague-a do seu sistema de imediato. É proibido a qualquer pessoa que não o destinatário de usar, revelar ou distribuir qualquer parte desta mensagem. Disclaimer: This message is destined exclusively to the intended receiver. It may contain confidential or legally protected information. The incorrect transmission of this message does not mean the loss of its confidentiality. If this message is received by mistake, please send it back to the sender and delete it from your system immediately. It is forbidden to any person who is not the intended receiver to use, distribute or copy any part of this message. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
If it's all done in the intranet by the employees you won't need a license, what you do afterwards with the PDFs is irrelevant. If you expose the service to the internet, even if it has a restricted access only for employees, than you'll need a license as the potential access is universal. By the way, I'm not a lawyer nor an employee of itextsoftware so, this is my, not legal binding, opinion. Doubts with so many questions should be addressed to itextsoftware and your company's lawyer. Paulo From: Lu, Tao (MOH) [tao...@ontario.ca] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 2:43 PM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License In our case, we will have a Websphere running on the server side with iText 5 jar file, our intranet employees will use browsers to view and print the pdf files generated by the iText, then send the printed the document to external users. Do we need a commercial license in this case? Many thanks! Tao From: Paulo Soares [mailto:psoa...@glintt.com] Sent: April 22, 2010 9:08 AM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License The intranet I was referring to was in a company where it's only accessed by the employees. In an University the same would apply for faculty members but not for students or faculty members from other Universities. Paulo From: Cameron Laird [claird.visipr...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 1:45 PM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Paulo Soares psoa...@glintt.commailto:psoa...@glintt.com wrote: If you're using it in an intranet you don't have to do anything. If you're exposing the service to the exterior either you provide the source code of your application or you buy a commercial license. ... What does intranet mean in this context? Is a license required if the Web application is restricted to faculty in a particular department of a particular university [my speculation: that is an intranet, and the license requires nothing further]? What if such a faculty member reaches the departmental application from a Web browser at his home off-campus [my speculation: that is *not* an intranet, and source-code-or-license is required]? What if the departmental application is open to academic collaborators who might potentially be based anywhere in the (IP-connected) world [my speculation: that is even less of an intranet, and source-code-or-license is required--but it's really not very commercial, as the purpose is only to promote academic research]? Thank you, Paulo, for your help in these matters. Aviso Legal: Esta mensagem é destinada exclusivamente ao destinatário. Pode conter informação confidencial ou legalmente protegida. A incorrecta transmissão desta mensagem não significa a perca de confidencialidade. Se esta mensagem for recebida por engano, por favor envie-a de volta para o remetente e apague-a do seu sistema de imediato. É proibido a qualquer pessoa que não o destinatário de usar, revelar ou distribuir qualquer parte desta mensagem. Disclaimer: This message is destined exclusively to the intended receiver. It may contain confidential or legally protected information. The incorrect transmission of this message does not mean the loss of its confidentiality. If this message is received by mistake, please send it back to the sender and delete it from your system immediately. It is forbidden to any person who is not the intended receiver to use, distribute or copy any part of this message. Aviso Legal: Esta mensagem é destinada exclusivamente ao destinatário. Pode conter informação confidencial ou legalmente protegida. A incorrecta transmissão desta mensagem não significa a perca de confidencialidade. Se esta mensagem for recebida por engano, por favor envie-a de volta para o remetente e apague-a do seu sistema de imediato. É proibido a qualquer pessoa que não o destinatário de usar, revelar ou distribuir qualquer parte desta mensagem. Disclaimer: This message is destined exclusively to the intended receiver. It may contain confidential or legally protected information. The incorrect transmission of this message does not mean the loss of its confidentiality. If this message is received by mistake, please send it back to the sender and delete it from your system immediately. It is forbidden to any person who is not the intended receiver to use, distribute or copy any part of this message. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
David Hoffer wrote: No, versions prior to 5.x had the more friendly license. Nuance: more friendly for people who want to write even more unfriendly code. The license is still friendly for people who write software as friendly as iText. -- This answer is provided by 1T3XT BVBA http://www.1t3xt.com/ - http://www.1t3xt.info -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
If you're making money from iText -- with making money being defined as somebody is paying you -- you should pay for it. There's a lot of hard work that went into the creation and support of this awesome tool. The licensing scheme they have for v. 5.0 is already incredibly generous; too generous IMO. Bruno and the team deserve to be paid for their work. If you're a University or not-for-profit or a start-up tell them: I'm sure they'll work out licensing arrangements that work within reasonable constraints; they don't want to put anybody out of business. Michael. On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:12 PM, 1T3XT info i...@1t3xt.info wrote: David Hoffer wrote: No, versions prior to 5.x had the more friendly license. Nuance: more friendly for people who want to write even more unfriendly code. The license is still friendly for people who write software as friendly as iText. -- This answer is provided by 1T3XT BVBA http://www.1t3xt.com/ - http://www.1t3xt.info -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Michael Olenick wrote: If you're making money from iText -- with making money being defined as somebody is paying you -- you should pay for it. There's a lot of hard work that went into the creation and support of this awesome tool. Thanks! best regards, Bruno -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Hey, I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to make money from this product. But I take issue with making money being defined as somebody is paying you. I thought making money was defined as what's left over after expenses. The cost is too high for small projects. Only the U.S. Government can make the economics of spending more than your income work out somehow :) -Dave On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Bruno Lowagie br...@lowagie.com wrote: Michael Olenick wrote: If you're making money from iText -- with making money being defined as somebody is paying you -- you should pay for it. There's a lot of hard work that went into the creation and support of this awesome tool. Thanks! best regards, Bruno -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Then tell them what the project is and what you can afford. Seriously -- that applies for all software components. If you're working for a Fortune 1000 call the person who licenses software and ask them to work something out. If you're working for a smaller company, or on your own, know that if you talk to virtually any software company they'll work within your budget constraints, as long as those constraints are reasonable. That's not just the itext licensing partner but Oracle, Microsoft, IBM ... as long as you're not BS'ing them they'll all work with you. They want you to do well so that you use their product in bigger projects, or pay them more as you grow. They make nothing if they demand fees you can't pay and don't use their product(s). Since the incremental cost for software is virtually zero there's little to lose and lots to gain once you're locked-in. [Conversely, for the younger engineers here, be careful who you lock-in with ... divorces in software are worse than divorces in real life.] Michael. On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:48 PM, David Hoffer dhoff...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to make money from this product. But I take issue with making money being defined as somebody is paying you. I thought making money was defined as what's left over after expenses. The cost is too high for small projects. Only the U.S. Government can make the economics of spending more than your income work out somehow :) -Dave On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Bruno Lowagie br...@lowagie.com wrote: Michael Olenick wrote: If you're making money from iText -- with making money being defined as somebody is paying you -- you should pay for it. There's a lot of hard work that went into the creation and support of this awesome tool. Thanks! best regards, Bruno -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
2010/4/22 Bruno Lowagie br...@lowagie.com Michael Olenick wrote: If you're making money from iText -- with making money being defined as somebody is paying you -- you should pay for it. There's a lot of hard work that went into the creation and support of this awesome tool. Thanks! best regards, Bruno That's very interessting: I am working both in research at an university and within a small startup (spin off) from the university. The software projects are closed source freeware and closed source commercial software with a share of about 50% each. I requested information about obtaining a commercial license and I was pretty astonished: The license fees were magnitudes beyond the complete project budgets with very strict obligations. I am really willing to obtain a license and to pay several 100 $ for it and I find it absolutely ok for the developers to earn money with their fantastic library. But: The current license fees are affordable for big industries only. I already thought about stopping to use iText or to stick with 2.1.7. After all,within my programms this is only a small component for generating reports in order to show the results of computation processes. I think, there are a lot of small projects and developers who are in the same situation. If there is another way, I would appreciate this very much, and as I said: I really like your lib and I am really willing to pay for it. But I can't invest 150% of the whole budgets on the reporting component only, and I am not willing to report the number of distribution number several times a year. Have you ever thought about single developer licenses with no fees for redistribution? Bye, Michael -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Hi, The license fees were magnitudes beyond the complete project budgets with very strict obligations. I am really willing to obtain a license and to pay several 100 $ for it and I find it absolutely ok for the developers to earn money with their fantastic library. But: The current license fees are affordable for big industries only. I already thought about stopping to use iText or to stick with 2.1.7. After all,within my programms this is only a small component for generating reports in order to show the results of computation processes. I think, there are a lot of small projects and developers who are in the same situation. If there is another way, I would appreciate this very much, and as I said: I really like your lib and I am really willing to pay for it. But I can't invest 150% of the whole budgets on the reporting component only, and I am not willing to report the number of distribution number several times a year. Have you ever thought about single developer licenses with no fees for redistribution? That's an interesting topic. Just being curious: What's the amount to pay for a commercial iText license? We had the same problem and decided to fork iText 2.1.7. We are also heavily working on that base trying to refactor all these bad little things out of the code and applying additional fixes. I would happily pay some money to get a lib and support but with the currently non-existent professional support for iText asking for money does not represent the state of the project at least to me. Just my 2c, Campus -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Hi Michael, I feel your pain, I am in similar situation. The commercial side of the licensing is geared for very big projects only, nothing small. I had no choice but to use 2.x and FOP will be next if I need more. Again I don't need free but I need something manageable. -Dave On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Michael Schmodt michael.schm...@googlemail.com wrote: 2010/4/22 Bruno Lowagie br...@lowagie.com Michael Olenick wrote: If you're making money from iText -- with making money being defined as somebody is paying you -- you should pay for it. There's a lot of hard work that went into the creation and support of this awesome tool. Thanks! best regards, Bruno That's very interessting: I am working both in research at an university and within a small startup (spin off) from the university. The software projects are closed source freeware and closed source commercial software with a share of about 50% each. I requested information about obtaining a commercial license and I was pretty astonished: The license fees were magnitudes beyond the complete project budgets with very strict obligations. I am really willing to obtain a license and to pay several 100 $ for it and I find it absolutely ok for the developers to earn money with their fantastic library. But: The current license fees are affordable for big industries only. I already thought about stopping to use iText or to stick with 2.1.7. After all,within my programms this is only a small component for generating reports in order to show the results of computation processes. I think, there are a lot of small projects and developers who are in the same situation. If there is another way, I would appreciate this very much, and as I said: I really like your lib and I am really willing to pay for it. But I can't invest 150% of the whole budgets on the reporting component only, and I am not willing to report the number of distribution number several times a year. Have you ever thought about single developer licenses with no fees for redistribution? Bye, Michael -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
[iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Hi, All, I am using iText 5, I didn't alter any source code of iText, I just included the iText jar file on the server side (Websphere server). In terms of License, is there any special action required? Many thanks! Regards, Tao -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
If you're using it in an intranet you don't have to do anything. If you're exposing the service to the exterior either you provide the source code of your application or you buy a commercial license. Paulo From: Lu, Tao (MOH) [tao...@ontario.ca] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:03 PM To: itext-questions@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License Hi, All, I am using iText 5, I didn't alter any source code of iText, I just included the iText jar file on the server side (Websphere server). In terms of License, is there any special action required? Many thanks! Regards, Tao Aviso Legal: Esta mensagem é destinada exclusivamente ao destinatário. Pode conter informação confidencial ou legalmente protegida. A incorrecta transmissão desta mensagem não significa a perca de confidencialidade. Se esta mensagem for recebida por engano, por favor envie-a de volta para o remetente e apague-a do seu sistema de imediato. É proibido a qualquer pessoa que não o destinatário de usar, revelar ou distribuir qualquer parte desta mensagem. Disclaimer: This message is destined exclusively to the intended receiver. It may contain confidential or legally protected information. The incorrect transmission of this message does not mean the loss of its confidentiality. If this message is received by mistake, please send it back to the sender and delete it from your system immediately. It is forbidden to any person who is not the intended receiver to use, distribute or copy any part of this message. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Hi, Paulo, Thanks a lot for your clarification. If we change iText version from 5 to 2, do we have the same license constraint? Thanks! Best Regards, Tao From: Paulo Soares [mailto:psoa...@glintt.com] Sent: April 21, 2010 11:17 AM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License If you're using it in an intranet you don't have to do anything. If you're exposing the service to the exterior either you provide the source code of your application or you buy a commercial license. Paulo From: Lu, Tao (MOH) [tao...@ontario.ca] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:03 PM To: itext-questions@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License Hi, All, I am using iText 5, I didn't alter any source code of iText, I just included the iText jar file on the server side (Websphere server). In terms of License, is there any special action required? Many thanks! Regards, Tao Aviso Legal: Esta mensagem é destinada exclusivamente ao destinatário. Pode conter informação confidencial ou legalmente protegida. A incorrecta transmissão desta mensagem não significa a perca de confidencialidade. Se esta mensagem for recebida por engano, por favor envie-a de volta para o remetente e apague-a do seu sistema de imediato. É proibido a qualquer pessoa que não o destinatário de usar, revelar ou distribuir qualquer parte desta mensagem. Disclaimer: This message is destined exclusively to the intended receiver. It may contain confidential or legally protected information. The incorrect transmission of this message does not mean the loss of its confidentiality. If this message is received by mistake, please send it back to the sender and delete it from your system immediately. It is forbidden to any person who is not the intended receiver to use, distribute or copy any part of this message. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
No, versions prior to 5.x had the more friendly license. -Dave On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Lu, Tao (MOH) tao...@ontario.ca wrote: Hi, Paulo, Thanks a lot for your clarification. If we change iText version from 5 to 2, do we have the same license constraint? Thanks! Best Regards, Tao From: Paulo Soares [mailto:psoa...@glintt.com] Sent: April 21, 2010 11:17 AM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License If you're using it in an intranet you don't have to do anything. If you're exposing the service to the exterior either you provide the source code of your application or you buy a commercial license. Paulo From: Lu, Tao (MOH) [tao...@ontario.ca] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:03 PM To: itext-questions@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License Hi, All, I am using iText 5, I didn't alter any source code of iText, I just included the iText jar file on the server side (Websphere server). In terms of License, is there any special action required? Many thanks! Regards, Tao Aviso Legal: Esta mensagem é destinada exclusivamente ao destinatário. Pode conter informação confidencial ou legalmente protegida. A incorrecta transmissão desta mensagem não significa a perca de confidencialidade. Se esta mensagem for recebida por engano, por favor envie-a de volta para o remetente e apague-a do seu sistema de imediato. É proibido a qualquer pessoa que não o destinatário de usar, revelar ou distribuir qualquer parte desta mensagem. Disclaimer: This message is destined exclusively to the intended receiver. It may contain confidential or legally protected information. The incorrect transmission of this message does not mean the loss of its confidentiality. If this message is received by mistake, please send it back to the sender and delete it from your system immediately. It is forbidden to any person who is not the intended receiver to use, distribute or copy any part of this message. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/ -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Thanks again, Paulo! My manager will contact you regarding the commercial license. Regards, Tao From: Paulo Soares [mailto:psoa...@glintt.com] Sent: April 21, 2010 11:17 AM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License If you're using it in an intranet you don't have to do anything. If you're exposing the service to the exterior either you provide the source code of your application or you buy a commercial license. Paulo From: Lu, Tao (MOH) [tao...@ontario.ca] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:03 PM To: itext-questions@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License Hi, All, I am using iText 5, I didn't alter any source code of iText, I just included the iText jar file on the server side (Websphere server). In terms of License, is there any special action required? Many thanks! Regards, Tao Aviso Legal: Esta mensagem é destinada exclusivamente ao destinatário. Pode conter informação confidencial ou legalmente protegida. A incorrecta transmissão desta mensagem não significa a perca de confidencialidade. Se esta mensagem for recebida por engano, por favor envie-a de volta para o remetente e apague-a do seu sistema de imediato. É proibido a qualquer pessoa que não o destinatário de usar, revelar ou distribuir qualquer parte desta mensagem. Disclaimer: This message is destined exclusively to the intended receiver. It may contain confidential or legally protected information. The incorrect transmission of this message does not mean the loss of its confidentiality. If this message is received by mistake, please send it back to the sender and delete it from your system immediately. It is forbidden to any person who is not the intended receiver to use, distribute or copy any part of this message. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
No me, I don't own the company, contact sa...@itextsoftware.com. Paulo - Original Message - From: Lu, Tao (MOH) To: Post all your questions about iText here Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License Thanks again, Paulo! My manager will contact you regarding the commercial license. Regards, Tao -- From: Paulo Soares [mailto:psoa...@glintt.com] Sent: April 21, 2010 11:17 AM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License If you're using it in an intranet you don't have to do anything. If you're exposing the service to the exterior either you provide the source code of your application or you buy a commercial license. Paulo -- From: Lu, Tao (MOH) [tao...@ontario.ca] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:03 PM To: itext-questions@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License Hi, All, I am using iText 5, I didn't alter any source code of iText, I just included the iText jar file on the server side (Websphere server). In terms of License, is there any special action required? Many thanks! Regards, Tao -- Aviso Legal: Esta mensagem é destinada exclusivamente ao destinatário. Pode conter informação confidencial ou legalmente protegida. A incorrecta transmissão desta mensagem não significa a perca de confidencialidade. Se esta mensagem for recebida por engano, por favor envie-a de volta para o remetente e apague-a do seu sistema de imediato. É proibido a qualquer pessoa que não o destinatário de usar, revelar ou distribuir qualquer parte desta mensagem. Disclaimer: This message is destined exclusively to the intended receiver. It may contain confidential or legally protected information. The incorrect transmission of this message does not mean the loss of its confidentiality. If this message is received by mistake, please send it back to the sender and delete it from your system immediately. It is forbidden to any person who is not the intended receiver to use, distribute or copy any part of this message. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License
Sure. My manager sent the email already. Regards, Tao From: Paulo Soares [mailto:psoa...@glintt.com] Sent: April 21, 2010 3:08 PM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License No me, I don't own the company, contact sa...@itextsoftware.com. Paulo - Original Message - From: Lu, Tao (MOH) mailto:tao...@ontario.ca To: Post all your questions about iText here mailto:itext-questions@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License Thanks again, Paulo! My manager will contact you regarding the commercial license. Regards, Tao From: Paulo Soares [mailto:psoa...@glintt.com] Sent: April 21, 2010 11:17 AM To: Post all your questions about iText here Subject: Re: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License If you're using it in an intranet you don't have to do anything. If you're exposing the service to the exterior either you provide the source code of your application or you buy a commercial license. Paulo From: Lu, Tao (MOH) [tao...@ontario.ca] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:03 PM To: itext-questions@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [iText-questions] What action is requred in terms of License Hi, All, I am using iText 5, I didn't alter any source code of iText, I just included the iText jar file on the server side (Websphere server). In terms of License, is there any special action required? Many thanks! Regards, Tao Aviso Legal: Esta mensagem é destinada exclusivamente ao destinatário. Pode conter informação confidencial ou legalmente protegida. A incorrecta transmissão desta mensagem não significa a perca de confidencialidade. Se esta mensagem for recebida por engano, por favor envie-a de volta para o remetente e apague-a do seu sistema de imediato. É proibido a qualquer pessoa que não o destinatário de usar, revelar ou distribuir qualquer parte desta mensagem. Disclaimer: This message is destined exclusively to the intended receiver. It may contain confidential or legally protected information. The incorrect transmission of this message does not mean the loss of its confidentiality. If this message is received by mistake, please send it back to the sender and delete it from your system immediately. It is forbidden to any person who is not the intended receiver to use, distribute or copy any part of this message. -- ___ iText-questions mailing list iText-questions@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions Buy the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/ Check the site with examples before you ask questions: http://www.1t3xt.info/examples/ You can also search the keywords list: http://1t3xt.info/tutorials/keywords/
