KR> Canopy Gluing- Epoxy
The key is to roughen the plastic to the point that the epoxy has something to hold to, just like Mark L. said! -- I talked to a friend that make aircraft Canopies, He told me at Polyester resin is the BEST to stick to the canopy. You can run a layer of say 2 to 3 inches tape around the inner and out areas where you wish to glue, when dry use epoxy to glue to the polyester strip. PLEASE try epoxy and polyester on a test cut off from the canopy, ( leaving a length of tape as a handle) you will see you can PULL the epoxy off the canopy, but not the polyester. Phil Matheson SAAA Ch 37 http://www.philskr2.50megs.com/
KR> Canopy Gluing- Epoxy
Mark L. wrote ?Another key is HOW you do it...you need to sandwich the acrylic on both sides with glass to put it in a sort of "double shear" rather than glass on only one side" ?snip- Since I will be attaching my canopy soon I thought a test was in order. I gouged (very rough) an area in some bead foam and roughed up (very rough!) a piece of left over canopy material. Flox was applied to the foam, the canopy material applied to the flox (no glass)and carbon fiber was applied to the outside of the canopy material. Please note that the foam was so rough there was not 100% contact with the canopy plastic. The carbon was not completely wetted out. I purposely set up a scenario of failure to see how well the joint would hold when not even done properly. The results are the three last pictures on my photo site. After 24 hours and an insufficient cure I really had to struggle to break loose a corner. The carbon fiber separated from the epoxy (Aeropoxy) but the epoxy could not be removed from the canopy plastic! After a full cure of the epoxy I can honestly say that, if installed properly, the canopy is not going to separate in flight! The bond is unbelievable strong! The key is to roughen the plastic to the point that the epoxy has something to hold to, just like Mark L. said! Bob Johnson Willamina, OR (971) 645-9491 https://picasaweb.google.com/103552664644911775549/KR2SS#
KR> Canopy Gluing- Epoxy
Hi Phil. With my Zenith canopy I used the epoxy resin, some flox and carbon fiber. I scuffed a 1" band on both sides of the edges and drilled holes at regular intervals which were used to clamp the canopy into position while everything dried. http://www.kr-2s.com/images/gappage_600.jpg I applied "dobs" of flox on the inside edges and then wiped away excess which "oozed out" when the canopy was finally clamped and allowed to dry. http://www.kr-2s.com/images/semicircle_600.jpg When dried, I filled in the drilled holes with flox and then a thin layer of flox was applied to the outside 1" edge and a strip of carbon fiber laid over this. http://www.kr-2s.com/images/yellowtape_600.jpg The canopy is essentially held in place in a flox / carbon fibre channel. All the best mate. -- Darren Crompton AUSTRALIA = AN-BOLTS www.an-bolts.com.au My building site: www.kr-2s.com SAAA #7125 - Chapter 18 RA-Aus #25866 =
KR> Canopy Gluing- Epoxy
Why not drill it and screw it? use flat screws and hence easy to concel. Be very carefull drilling the canopy. If you are having to pull the sides of the canopy in to make it fit the frame a drill hole will make a weak point which can crack. Don't ask how I know. Jack Cooper Chuckey TN.
KR> Canopy Gluing- Epoxy
Thanks guys, for the advice, I do understand what you are all saying, as I said before I have had NO trouble with my KR2 I'm flying now, and I made it the same way. Todd's reply is below, thanks again Todd. Merry Xmas to you all. Phil. Phil Matheson SAAA Ch 37 http://www.philskr2.50megs.com/ Hi Phil M. The Longeze, Varieze and Cozy plans have you bond the canopy to the frame with epoxy and they also have the builders lay up plies of glass over the edges of the canopy. This way all the edges of the canopy are captured in a channel of fiberglass so at that point even if the flox bonding it to the frame was not there the canopy still wouldn't move out of the frame. Are you trying to bond the canopy to wood? 3M 5200 is a adhesive made to bond pleixglas to metal or fiberglass. May you want to buy a tube of it and test it with wood if that is what your frame is made of. One of the beauties of 3M 5200 is that when it cures it turns into a rubbery flexible material. It's not brittle so when your canopy frame and canopy flex, this will flex with it. I have bonded many canopies to frames with this product and these airplanes are now flying. 3M 5200 is available in a caulking tube or they have a squeeze tube about the size of a large tube of toothpaste. I'd get the fast cure. The fast cure still doesn't cure fast. It takes 24 hours. The regular 3M 5200 takes about 3 to 7 days to cure. Please let me know what happens. Thanks again for the business. Todd Silver www.toddscanopies.com
KR> Canopy Gluing- Epoxy
Everyhting that Mark said below plus i did use West Systems and there is no sign of a problem from the start. I did use very heavey sand paper like 60 grit and made sure that it was fully toothed ( no glossy areas left at all). I think that I also drilled some holes through and let flox tie both sides of the lay up together. Also don't for get to tape it off very well so no epoxie gets on any part of the exposed windscreen. My canopy was from Rand but I can not imagine that the products differ as they are made the same way.Joe HortonCoopersburg, Pa. Steve Phillabaum wrote: >>I have a Todd's KR canopy and I sanded in a good scratch finish in the >>area of the epoxy and then sandwiched in the conopy between glass on both >>sides uning areopoxy. I don't think I could get it appart without some >>damage. Let us know what he has to say.<< That'll work fine. I would think most epoxies would stick just fine to acrylic after it's been roughed up with rough sandpaper to give it some "teeth". I think this is even detailed in the Bengelis books. I suspect those having problems didn't do the roughing part. I wondered about the quality of that bond when I did mine the same way (overlapping the acrylic by about 1.5"-2" all the way around, but there is zero sign of delaminiation anywhere. T-88 may not be the best choice because it's not very viscous and may not soak into as many of the scratches, but I'd bet it's still a pretty good bonding agent for glass. I used Aeropoxy, and can tell you that it works for sure, at least up to 240 mph. Another key is HOW you do it...you need to sandwich the acrylic on both sides with glass to put it in a sort of "double shear" rather than glass on only one side, eliminating a "tension only" kind of failure where the fiberglass can just peel away from the acrylic due to some wierd loading condition. I think that's just good common sense though... Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d12543eeacb788c396st01duc
KR> Canopy Gluing- Epoxy
Actually, epoxy resin sticks poorly to acrylic and polycarbonate plastics. Most effective applications, are both epoxy and a mechanical means to lock in the plastic. I would use protruding slugs or the very least, lock it in mechanically. Joe Cygan KR-2S Texas From: Mark Langford To: KRnet Sent: Wed, December 22, 2010 11:47:58 AM Subject: Re: KR> Canopy Gluing- Epoxy Steve Phillabaum wrote: >>I have a Todd's KR canopy and I sanded in a good scratch finish in the >>area of the epoxy and then sandwiched in the conopy between glass on both >>sides uning areopoxy. I don't think I could get it appart without some >>damage. Let us know what he has to say.<< That'll work fine. I would think most epoxies would stick just fine to acrylic after it's been roughed up with rough sandpaper to give it some "teeth". I think this is even detailed in the Bengelis books. I suspect those having problems didn't do the roughing part. I wondered about the quality of that bond when I did mine the same way (overlapping the acrylic by about 1.5"-2" all the way around, but there is zero sign of delaminiation anywhere. T-88 may not be the best choice because it's not very viscous and may not soak into as many of the scratches, but I'd bet it's still a pretty good bonding agent for glass. I used Aeropoxy, and can tell you that it works for sure, at least up to 240 mph. Another key is HOW you do it...you need to sandwich the acrylic on both sides with glass to put it in a sort of "double shear" rather than glass on only one side, eliminating a "tension only" kind of failure where the fiberglass can just peel away from the acrylic due to some wierd loading condition. I think that's just good common sense though... Mark Langford m...@n56ml.com website www.n56ml.com ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Canopy Gluing- Epoxy
Steve Phillabaum wrote: >>I have a Todd's KR canopy and I sanded in a good scratch finish in the >>area of the epoxy and then sandwiched in the conopy between glass on both >>sides uning areopoxy. I don't think I could get it appart without some >>damage. Let us know what he has to say.<< That'll work fine. I would think most epoxies would stick just fine to acrylic after it's been roughed up with rough sandpaper to give it some "teeth". I think this is even detailed in the Bengelis books. I suspect those having problems didn't do the roughing part. I wondered about the quality of that bond when I did mine the same way (overlapping the acrylic by about 1.5"-2" all the way around, but there is zero sign of delaminiation anywhere. T-88 may not be the best choice because it's not very viscous and may not soak into as many of the scratches, but I'd bet it's still a pretty good bonding agent for glass. I used Aeropoxy, and can tell you that it works for sure, at least up to 240 mph. Another key is HOW you do it...you need to sandwich the acrylic on both sides with glass to put it in a sort of "double shear" rather than glass on only one side, eliminating a "tension only" kind of failure where the fiberglass can just peel away from the acrylic due to some wierd loading condition. I think that's just good common sense though... Mark Langford m...@n56ml.com website www.n56ml.com
KR> Canopy Gluing- Epoxy
phillip matheson wrote I am having problem getting T88 and West System to stick to a Todd's Canopy. I sent the email to below to Todd, but has anyone else had problems? I have a Todd's KR canopy and I sanded in a good scratch finish in the area of the epoxy and then sandwiched in the conopy between glass on both sides uning areopoxy. I don't think I could get it appart without some damage. Let us know what he has to say. Steve Phillabaum KR2Swide Shorter, Alabama 334-740-0066
KR> Canopy Gluing- Epoxy
Why not drill it and screw it? use flat screws and hence easy to concel. I'm not a fan of glue, my other plane's designer had came up with metal wings where the skins are glue'ed on and well I've met 2 people so far where that hasn't been all the pretty (skins actually pulling off rather easily), needless to say I rivited all the skins on, not as pretty and smooth, but I feel better LOL. Joe On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Craig Williams wrote: > Not yet, but I too have a Todd 601xl canopy so I am very interested in what > he has to say. > > Craig > www.kr2seafury.com > > --- On Wed, 12/22/10, phillip matheson > wrote: > > > From: phillip matheson > > Subject: KR> Canopy Gluing- Epoxy > > To: "KRnet" > > Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 7:43 AM > > Marry Xmas to you all. > > I am having problem getting T88 and West System to stick to > > a Todd's Canopy. > > I sent the email to below to Todd, but has anyone else had > > problems? > > > > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Jose Fuentes Founding Father (one of and former Vice Prez) of Capital City.NET User's Group Former Microsoft MVP http://blogs.aspadvice.com/jfuentes
KR> Canopy Gluing- Epoxy
Not yet, but I too have a Todd 601xl canopy so I am very interested in what he has to say. Craig www.kr2seafury.com --- On Wed, 12/22/10, phillip matheson wrote: > From: phillip matheson > Subject: KR> Canopy Gluing- Epoxy > To: "KRnet" > Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 7:43 AM > Marry Xmas to you all. > I am having problem getting T88 and West System to stick to > a Todd's Canopy. > I sent the email to below to Todd, but has anyone else had > problems? >
KR> Canopy Gluing- Epoxy
Marry Xmas to you all. I am having problem getting T88 and West System to stick to a Todd's Canopy. I sent the email to below to Todd, but has anyone else had problems? - Hi Todd. ( Marry Xmas and happy New Year) I have one of your large Zenith Canopies cut down to fit my current KR2SS project. Great flexibility and tinted. But, I was hoping you could help, I am having problems getting Epoxy to stick it the Canopy. I first use West System to glue the Timber side rails on ( as I did with my other KR2 , no problems for 300 hours so far) I made a mistake and tried to remove the first rails and they came of very easily, to my surprise. So Yesterday I use a new batch of T88 and again used 80 grid paper to rough up the canopy. BUT tonight ( 24 hours latter) when I went to position the canopy to sand down the side foam and glass the outer frame, and noticed one rail had came away from the canopy over half the length of the canopy rail. AS you can imagine I am very concerned that the canopy could give problem in flight. Can you off any ideas and help please. PS the can was protected with the Aircraft Spruce liquid masking solution. Marry Xmas. Phil Matheson SAAA Ch 37 http://www.philskr2.50megs.com/
