KR>Firewall

[Jim Litchfield]

Thanks to Colin & Larry for their responses.
Both contained good info & strong  points to consider.
Jim Litchfield
S.E. VA

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KR>firewall

[Jim Litchfield]

Getting ready to install the plywood firewall and need additional info.
Should the plywood be cut a bit smaller than the actual size of the boat
framing  to facilitate being able to make a smooth transition from fuselage
sides to the cowling sides ? What about where the glareshield meets the
back of the firewall ?

Also does the metal wrap around the edges of the plywood or just extend to
the perimeter of the plywood  ?

I have spent much time searching the archives and found the index that
listed several issues of the newsletter regarding this, however after going
thru the newsletters I cannot find the ones I apparently need which are Jan
1992, Nov 1989, Feb 1982, and Feb 1990.
I have also looked at lots of pictures on builder's sites without being
able to see exactly how it is done.

I must be over thinking this one. If anyone has pictures(worth a thousand
words) I would be very grateful because this item has stopped production
and I am losing my hair anyway so more head scratching is totally
counterproductive.
Thanks in advance
Jim Litchfield
S.E. Virginia

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Re: KR> Firewall construction

[Mike Arnold via KRnet]

Mark I think your right, I have designed the mounts so that they bolt
through the re-enforced part of the fuselage. I am going to apply the
fiberfrax sealer (adhesive) to the plywood and SS sheet then epoxy (T 88)
the whole thing to the fuselage. The mounting bolts should hold the motor
on.

On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 2:52 PM, Stef den Boer via KRnet <
krnet@list.krnet.org> wrote:

> Mike, 2 months ago I asked the same question.
> After some comments from our kr friends this is how we did it.
> Made the ss sheet including the holes. Sprayed the ss sheet wit glue. Just
> glue spray from the local store. Placed the fibre frax over it so it is now
> glued at the ss sheet. Removed the remaining fibre frax but 3 mm smaler at
> the edge all around. Install the ss sheet including the fibre frax for
> final. When it is aligned we sealed the edge (the 3mm) all around.
> We have a good result with this method.
> Stef
>
>
> > Op 27 juli 2018 om 20:00 schreef Mike Arnold via KRnet <
> krnet@list.krnet.org>:
> >
> >
> > Hey KR 'ers how has everyone constructed their firewall? I have the
> > plywood, fiberfrax, fiberfrax adhesive, and ss sheet. Is the fiberfrax
> > adhesive enough to hold the SS sheet to the plywood or does it need T-88
> or
> > something. Don't want to come apart.
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at https://www.mail-archive.com/
> krnet@list.krnet.org/.
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> change options.
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>
> Steph and his dad are building the KR-2S see http://www.masttotaalconcept.
> nl/kr2
>
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Re: KR> Firewall construction

[Stef den Boer via KRnet]

Mike, 2 months ago I asked the same question. 
After some comments from our kr friends this is how we did it.
Made the ss sheet including the holes. Sprayed the ss sheet wit glue. Just glue 
spray from the local store. Placed the fibre frax over it so it is now glued at 
the ss sheet. Removed the remaining fibre frax but 3 mm smaler at the edge all 
around. Install the ss sheet including the fibre frax for final. When it is 
aligned we sealed the edge (the 3mm) all around. 
We have a good result with this method.
Stef


> Op 27 juli 2018 om 20:00 schreef Mike Arnold via KRnet :
> 
> 
> Hey KR 'ers how has everyone constructed their firewall? I have the
> plywood, fiberfrax, fiberfrax adhesive, and ss sheet. Is the fiberfrax
> adhesive enough to hold the SS sheet to the plywood or does it need T-88 or
> something. Don't want to come apart.
> ___
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Steph and his dad are building the KR-2S see http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2

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Re: KR> Firewall construction

[mark jones via KRnet]

Mike. 
The glue will hold it but the real structural strength and holding power comes 
when you start bolting things to the firewall. The plywood is epoxied to 
firewall cross members with T-88. Don’t over think things. 

Mark Jones
Oldsmar, Fl
www.flykr2s.com
flyk...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone 7

> On Jul 27, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Mike Arnold via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> Hey KR 'ers how has everyone constructed their firewall? I have the
> plywood, fiberfrax, fiberfrax adhesive, and ss sheet. Is the fiberfrax
> adhesive enough to hold the SS sheet to the plywood or does it need T-88 or
> something. Don't want to come apart.
> ___
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> https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/.
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KR> Firewall construction

[Mike Arnold via KRnet]

Hey KR 'ers how has everyone constructed their firewall? I have the
plywood, fiberfrax, fiberfrax adhesive, and ss sheet. Is the fiberfrax
adhesive enough to hold the SS sheet to the plywood or does it need T-88 or
something. Don't want to come apart.
___
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Re: KR> Firewall fabrication

[Luis Claudio via KRnet]

I will research that. I is also a weight saver from the looks of it.
Thanks
Luis R Claudio


On Sat Jul 22 2017 07:40:12 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time), Roger Baalman via 
KRnet  wrote:

I used .002 stainless foil with the fiberfrax.  I laid the heat to it and 
didn't burn a hole through it.  Much lighter than .016".  You do need to be 
more careful after the foil is on the firewall and definitely seal the 
perimeter.  It comes in 1' and 2' rolls.  Of course, the firewall is taller 
than 24", so I overlapped at the bottom where the fuel lines are routed.
Roger Baalman




 Mark Langford via KRnet  wrote: 
> Brian Kraut wrote:
> 
>  > Thinnest Spruce sells is .016, but that is not that much more weight.
> 
> I bought some of that .016" sheet from AS&S, and the instant I took it 
> out of the box I said "this ain't going on my plane!".

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Re: KR> Firewall fabrication

[Roger Baalman via KRnet]

I used .002 stainless foil with the fiberfrax.  I laid the heat to it and 
didn't burn a hole through it.  Much lighter than .016".  You do need to be 
more careful after the foil is on the firewall and definitely seal the 
perimeter.  It comes in 1' and 2' rolls.  Of course, the firewall is taller 
than 24", so I overlapped at the bottom where the fuel lines are routed.
Roger Baalman




 Mark Langford via KRnet  wrote: 
> Brian Kraut wrote:
> 
>  > Thinnest Spruce sells is .016, but that is not that much more weight.
> 
> I bought some of that .016" sheet from AS&S, and the instant I took it 
> out of the box I said "this ain't going on my plane!".

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Re: KR> Firewall fabrication

[Luis Claudio via KRnet]

This team of builders is awesome. Got the decision making verification I needed 
and will go with the stainless. I appreciate the fact that you even took the 
time to pull it up info on the web. I even got a call from Clyde this morning 
with his input and it's nice to know that help is so readily available. Making 
progress and forever forward. Thanks again 
Luis R ClaudioKR2SDallas, Texas


On Fri Jul 21 2017 11:15:31 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time), Mark Langford via 
KRnet  wrote:

Brian Kraut wrote:

 > Thinnest Spruce sells is .016, but that is not that much more weight.

I bought some of that .016" sheet from AS&S, and the instant I took it 
out of the box I said "this ain't going on my plane!".  I still have it 
on the shelf.  I eventually found some .004 or .005 or something.  Look 
for "stainless steel foil" or maybe sheet, or better yet, buy Norm's...

Mark Langford
m...@n56ml.com
http://www.n56ml.com


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Re: KR> Firewall fabrication

[Mark Langford via KRnet]

Brian Kraut wrote:

> Thinnest Spruce sells is .016, but that is not that much more weight.

I bought some of that .016" sheet from AS&S, and the instant I took it 
out of the box I said "this ain't going on my plane!".  I still have it 
on the shelf.  I eventually found some .004 or .005 or something.  Look 
for "stainless steel foil" or maybe sheet, or better yet, buy Norm's...


Mark Langford
m...@n56ml.com
http://www.n56ml.com


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Re: KR> Firewall fabrication

[brian.kraut--- via KRnet]

Thinnest Spruce sells is .016, but that is not that much more weight.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/firewall_sheet2.php


Brian Kraut
904-536-1780
br...@eamanuacturing.com



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: KR> Firewall fabrication
From: "Virgil N. Salisbury via KRnet" 
Date: Fri, July 21, 2017 5:41 am
To: Clyde Baker via KRnet 
Cc: "Virgil N. Salisbury" 


 Firewall kit should be available from A S & S or Wicks.
 This would be Stainless and Fibrefrax, Virg

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Re: KR> Firewall fabrication

[Virgil N. Salisbury via KRnet]

Firewall kit should be available from A S & S or Wicks.
This would be Stainless and Fibrefrax, Virg


On 7/21/2017 6:16 AM, Clyde Baker via KRnet wrote:

Luis,

I recently built my firewall, and have the stainless you are looking for. Built 
mine as described below with unglued fiber fax behind stainless. The stainless 
is hard to find had to purchase large piece for what I needed let me know if 
you need any, and any advice I can help you with. Not a difficult job. You have 
my number here at the St Elmo airport in Mobile. Just finished first seat pan 
and have exciting plans for seating.

Clyde Baker

On Thu, 7/20/17, Jeff Scott via KRnet  wrote:

  Subject: Re: KR> Firewall fabrication
  To: krnet@list.krnet.org
  Cc: "Jeff Scott" 
  Date: Thursday, July 20, 2017, 10:19 PM
  
  
  
  Subject: KR> Firewall fabrication

  I am ready to build my firewall and would like
  to see what others have done. Should I stay with the
  stainless steel sheet per plans or go with aluminum
  or galvanized steel?  Regarding the firewall blanket...
  what have you used?I have a Revmaster 2100D
  Thanks
  Luis R ClaudioKR2S
  Dallas, Texas
  ___
  
  Louis,
  
  I would use Stainless steel.  If I recall from

  the plans, they called out.007" stainless.  That can
  be hard to find, but .101 Stainless is pretty readily
  available.  Galvanized is an option if you wish, but do not
  use Aluminum as it will melt in a hot fire, which defeats
  the purpose of it being a firewall.
  
  Use fibrefrax as an insulating blanket under

  the stainless.  Others will chime in here with how they
  glued the fiberfrax to the wood firewall template.
  
  -Jeff Scott

  Los Alamos, NM
  
  ___

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Re: KR> Firewall fabrication

[Clyde Baker via KRnet]

Luis,

I recently built my firewall, and have the stainless you are looking for. Built 
mine as described below with unglued fiber fax behind stainless. The stainless 
is hard to find had to purchase large piece for what I needed let me know if 
you need any, and any advice I can help you with. Not a difficult job. You have 
my number here at the St Elmo airport in Mobile. Just finished first seat pan 
and have exciting plans for seating. 

Clyde Baker

On Thu, 7/20/17, Jeff Scott via KRnet  wrote:

 Subject: Re: KR> Firewall fabrication
 To: krnet@list.krnet.org
 Cc: "Jeff Scott" 
 Date: Thursday, July 20, 2017, 10:19 PM
 
 
 
 Subject: KR> Firewall fabrication
 I am ready to build my firewall and would like
 to see what others have done. Should I stay with the
 stainless steel sheet per plans or go with aluminum
 or galvanized steel?  Regarding the firewall blanket...
 what have you used?I have a Revmaster 2100D
 Thanks
 Luis R ClaudioKR2S
 Dallas, Texas
 ___
 
 Louis, 
 
 I would use Stainless steel.  If I recall from
 the plans, they called out.007" stainless.  That can
 be hard to find, but .101 Stainless is pretty readily
 available.  Galvanized is an option if you wish, but do not
 use Aluminum as it will melt in a hot fire, which defeats
 the purpose of it being a firewall.
 
 Use fibrefrax as an insulating blanket under
 the stainless.  Others will chime in here with how they
 glued the fiberfrax to the wood firewall template.
 
 -Jeff Scott
 Los Alamos, NM
 
 ___
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Re: KR> Firewall fabrication

[Clyde Baker via KRnet]

Luis,

I recently built my firewall, and have the stainless you are looking for. Built 
mine as described below with unglued fiber fax behind stainless. The stainless 
is hard to find had to purchase large piece for what I needed let me know if 
you need any, and any advice I can help you with. Not a difficult job. You have 
my number here at the St Elmo airport in Mobile. Just finished first seat pan 
and have exciting plans for seating. 

Clyde Baker

On Thu, 7/20/17, Jeff Scott via KRnet  wrote:

 Subject: Re: KR> Firewall fabrication
 To: krnet@list.krnet.org
 Cc: "Jeff Scott" 
 Date: Thursday, July 20, 2017, 10:19 PM
 
 
 
 Subject: KR> Firewall fabrication
 I am ready to build my firewall and would like
 to see what others have done. Should I stay with the
 stainless steel sheet per plans or go with aluminum
 or galvanized steel?  Regarding the firewall blanket...
 what have you used?I have a Revmaster 2100D
 Thanks
 Luis R ClaudioKR2S
 Dallas, Texas
 ___
 
 Louis, 
 
 I would use Stainless steel.  If I recall from
 the plans, they called out.007" stainless.  That can
 be hard to find, but .101 Stainless is pretty readily
 available.  Galvanized is an option if you wish, but do not
 use Aluminum as it will melt in a hot fire, which defeats
 the purpose of it being a firewall.
 
 Use fibrefrax as an insulating blanket under
 the stainless.  Others will chime in here with how they
 glued the fiberfrax to the wood firewall template.
 
 -Jeff Scott
 Los Alamos, NM
 
 ___
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Re: KR> Firewall fabrication

[Jeff Scott via KRnet]

 
 

Sorry for the repeat post.  I had a typo in the material thickness.  .101" was 
meant to say .010".  -Jeff
___

Louis,

I would use Stainless steel. If I recall from the plans, they called out .007" 
stainless. That can be hard to find, but .010" Stainless is pretty readily 
available. Galvanized is an option if you wish, but do not use Aluminum as it 
will melt in a hot fire, which defeats the purpose of it being a firewall.

Use fibrefrax as an insulating blanket under the stainless. Others will chime 
in here with how they glued the fiberfrax to the wood firewall template.

-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM

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Re: KR> Firewall fabrication

[Jeff Scott via KRnet]

Subject: KR> Firewall fabrication
I am ready to build my firewall and would like to see what others have done. 
Should I stay with the stainless steel sheet per plans or go with aluminum or 
galvanized steel?  Regarding the firewall blanket... what have you used?I have 
a Revmaster 2100D
Thanks
Luis R ClaudioKR2S Dallas, Texas
___

Louis, 

I would use Stainless steel.  If I recall from the plans, they called out.007" 
stainless.  That can be hard to find, but .101 Stainless is pretty readily 
available.  Galvanized is an option if you wish, but do not use Aluminum as it 
will melt in a hot fire, which defeats the purpose of it being a firewall.

Use fibrefrax as an insulating blanket under the stainless.  Others will chime 
in here with how they glued the fiberfrax to the wood firewall template.

-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM

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KR> Firewall fabrication

[Luis Claudio via KRnet]

I am ready to build my firewall and would like to see what others have done. 
Should I stay with the stainless steel sheet per plans or go with aluminum or 
galvanized steel?  Regarding the firewall blanket... what have you used?I have 
a Revmaster 2100D 
Thanks
Luis R ClaudioKR2S Dallas, Texas 
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KR> Firewall

[rbaalman at cox.net]

 Phillip Hill via KRnet  wrote: 
> FYI: Searches work better if you know that any sheet metal less than
something like .010" is considered "foil".


I used fiberfrax and .002" foil.  The lower 10" is doubled where the fuel lines 
would be.  It was propane torch proof, so I know I can land  without the 
firewall structure ablaze.  The foil came in 24" width.  
Roger Baalman
rbaalman at cox.net

KR> Firewall

[Jeff Scott]

I would suggest Brown Metals <http://www.brownmetals.com>.  I haven't talked to 
them or had a need to buy any, but their web site advertises various 
thicknesses and alloys of Stainless foils.  304 Stainless starts at .005" and 
24" width.  301 can be ordered up to 36" wide at .005" and can be as thin as 
.002". 321 Stainless starts at .002 x 24" width.  If someone wanted to buy a 
short roll they could probably supply enough for quite a number of KRs over the 
coming years.

-Jeff Scott
?
?

Sent:?Wednesday, September 07, 2016 at 5:12 PM
From:?"Mark Langford via KRnet" 
To:?KRnet 
Cc:?"Mark Langford" 
Subject:?Re: KR> Firewall
Paul Visk wrote:

>> Fiberfrax Firewall Material from Wicks and a piece of stainless
steel sheet .016" thick. I tried to find some .005" SS shim stock, but
couldn't find it wide enough.<<

I couldn't find any either, and bought the .016" also. When I took it
out of the box, it amazed me how heavy it was. It didn't pass my "light
enough to fly" test, so I kept looking. I eventually found some .004"
or .005", sold by Rand Robinson! I don't see it on nVAero's website,
however.

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com


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KR> Firewall

[Mark Langford]

Paul Visk wrote:

 >>  Fiberfrax Firewall Material from Wicks and a piece of stainless 
steel sheet .016" thick.  I tried to find some .005" SS shim stock, but 
couldn't find it wide enough.<<

I couldn't find any either, and bought the .016" also.  When I took it 
out of the box, it amazed me how heavy it was.  It didn't pass my "light 
enough to fly" test, so I kept looking.  I eventually found some .004" 
or .005", sold by Rand Robinson!  I don't see it on nVAero's website, 
however.

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

KR> Firewall

[Phillip Hill]

FYI: Searches work better if you know that any sheet metal less than
something like .010" is considered "foil".


On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Paul Visk via KRnet 
wrote:

>
>
>
>  Fiberfrax Firewall Material from Wicks and a piece of stainless steel
> sheet .016" thick.  I tried to find some .005" SS shim stock, but couldn't
> find it wide enough.
>
> Paul Visk Belleville IL  618 406 4705
> Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4
>
>  Original message 
> From: Mike Arnold via KRnet 
> Date: 09/07/2016  8:30 AM  (GMT-06:00)
> To: KRnet 
> Cc: Mike Arnold 
> Subject: KR> Firewall
>
> What are you guys using to build up the firewall? Specifics.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
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> options
>

KR> Firewall

[Paul Visk]

?Fiberfrax Firewall Material from Wicks and a piece of stainless steel sheet 
.016" thick. ?I tried to find some .005" SS shim stock, but couldn't find it 
wide enough.

Paul Visk?Belleville IL ?618 406 4705
Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4

 Original message 
From: Mike Arnold via KRnet  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 09/07/2016  8:30 AM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: KRnet  
Cc: Mike Arnold  
Subject: KR> Firewall 

What are you guys using to build up the firewall? Specifics.
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KR> Firewall

[Mike Arnold]

What are you guys using to build up the firewall? Specifics.

KR> Firewall Edge Finish

[codylee.cramer]

Can someone direct me to a thread about using the Ray Allen trim systems on a 
kr2. I am new to figuring out this whole krnet thing.


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
 Original message From: John Martindale via KRnet  Date: 5/11/16  5:01 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 'KRnet'  Cc: John Martindale  Subject: 
Re: KR> Firewall Edge Finish 
Hi Sid

I just ran a bead of silastic around the top and sides before clamping the
steel and frax to the wall. I left the bottom open just in case something
needed to drain out. All good so far. How close are you to flight again?

John

John Martindale
29 Jane Circuit
Toormina NSW 2452
Australia

ph:61 2 6658 4767
m:0403 432179
email:john_martindale at bigpond.com
web site: 
-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Sid Wood via
KRnet
Sent: Thursday, 12 May 2016 1:10 AM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Cc: Sid Wood
Subject: KR> Firewall Edge Finish

What method would be used to finish the firewall edge of a stainless steel 
sheet to keep out water, oil, etc. from getting between the plywood and 
steel sheet, make a neat interface for the cowl and not add excessive 
weight?

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA




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KR> Firewall Edge Finish

[John Martindale]

Hi Sid

I just ran a bead of silastic around the top and sides before clamping the
steel and frax to the wall. I left the bottom open just in case something
needed to drain out. All good so far. How close are you to flight again?

John

John Martindale
29 Jane Circuit
Toormina NSW 2452
Australia

ph:61 2 6658 4767
m:0403 432179
email:john_martindale at bigpond.com
web site: 
-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Sid Wood via
KRnet
Sent: Thursday, 12 May 2016 1:10 AM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Cc: Sid Wood
Subject: KR> Firewall Edge Finish

What method would be used to finish the firewall edge of a stainless steel 
sheet to keep out water, oil, etc. from getting between the plywood and 
steel sheet, make a neat interface for the cowl and not add excessive 
weight?

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA




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KR> Firewall Edge Finish

[Mark Wegmet]

Keep in mind that Stainless Steel is not rust PROOF, but rust and corrosion
resistant. Pat is absolutely correct - if you introduce iron (standard steel
fines) to the surface of stainless, that will seed the surface with iron and
you will get rust and/or corrosion. 300 series steels are "self-passivating"
due to the higher chrome/nickel content. 400 series steels, particularly 420
is prone to corrosion unless chemically passivated. There are passivation
gels (acid based) that can be used to encourage a passive surface; if it is
clean 300 series stainless, it will self-passivate when exposed to oxygen.
Acidic cleaners will strip oxides from the surface and encourage a
passivation layer - make sure you rinse well and dry.

If you have the money, titanium is inert and the rust or corrosion you might
see is introduced from iron contaminants from machining or cutting; easily
removed with the right polishing compound. It is also very light, but
comparatively soft.

Mark W.
N952MW (res)
USMC - '71 - '73 (to mirror Pat's veteran statement).

-Original Message-
Patrick Driscoll wrote:

Subject: Re: KR> Firewall Edge Finish

Just be sure that when you file or grind S/S on the firewall, you use a new
file or grinding disc. Stainless steel will not rust? It will if you use a
file or disc that was used on plain steel or iron.
Patrick Driscoll
Saint Paul, MN
patrick36 at usfamily.net
www.pensbypat.com
If you can read this, Thank a teacher
If you are reading this in English, thank a veteran 



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KR> Firewall Edge Finish

[Patrick Driscoll]

Just be sure that when you file or grind S/S on the firewall, you use a new 
file or grinding disc. Stainless steel will not rust? It will if you use a 
file or disc that was used on plain steel or iron.
Patrick Driscoll
Saint Paul, MN
patrick36 at usfamily.net
www.pensbypat.com
If you can read this, Thank a teacher
If you are reading this in English, thank a veteran 

KR> Firewall Edge Finish

[Sid Wood]

What method would be used to finish the firewall edge of a stainless steel 
sheet to keep out water, oil, etc. from getting between the plywood and 
steel sheet, make a neat interface for the cowl and not add excessive 
weight?

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA

KR> Firewall Edge Finish

[Larry Flesner]

At 10:10 AM 5/11/2016, you wrote:
>What method would be used to finish the firewall edge of a stainless 
>steel sheet to keep out water, oil, etc.
>from getting between the plywood and steel sheet, make a neat 
>interface for the cowl and not add excessive weight?
>Sid Wood
+++

file the S.S. flush with the fuselage sides, push back the fiber frax 
to create a 1/8" void, fill with resin and flox, then sand flush with 
the fuselage.

Larry Flesner 

KR> Firewall

[Dan Heath]

Motor mount, side cowl mount bracket, top cowl bracket, and all the stuff
you mount on the firewall, is certainly enough to hold it on.  You don't
need anything else to accomplish that.  



Taking it one step farther, I used fire stop paint instead of the other fire
resistant material.  But you should not do that.



See N64KR at  <http://krbuilder.org/> http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
the pics 



2015 KR Gathering - McMinnville, OR.  September 3 - 6 -- See U There.



Peoples Choice at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best KR at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Interior at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Paint at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Firwwall Forward at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 



Best Interior and Panel at 2008 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN





Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC





-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Drake
via KRnet
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 10:34 AM
To: KR Net
Subject: KR> Firewall



Hi All



I have just got a sheet of 0.5mm Titanium for my firewall.



Has anyone got any tips on how best to attach it to the ply bulkhead.



Peter Drake

Hereford

UK



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KR> Firewall

[Mac McConnell-Wood]

Hi Peter..I have a box full of 1/8th monel b/h tucker popsI've
been trying to give them away as we are downsizing and need the space!
If you know anyone who could use them they're welcome

Mac

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Peter Drake via KRnet  wrote:

> Hi All
>
> I have just got a sheet of 0.5mm Titanium for my firewall.
>
> Has anyone got any tips on how best to attach it to the ply bulkhead.
>
> Peter Drake
> Hereford
> UK
>
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> options
>

KR> Firewall

[Teate, Stephen]

"Has anyone got any tips on how best to attach it to the ply bulkhead."

Hello Peter,

I used stainless steel truss head sheet metal screws around the perimeter. Both 
sides have the traditional piano hinge and the top has the full width (radius) 
angle for the forward cowling so the only place I had to add screws was across 
the bottom. Don't forget the Fiberfrax between them and good luck with drilling 
that titanium. I used cobalt drills and a lot of oil on the stainless and it 
wasn't what I would call easy. I would assume the titanium is going to be 
tougher but also lighter.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas







The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. 
If you are not an intended recipient, you should delete this message. 
Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized, and any disclosure, 
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prohibited 
and may be unlawful. 

KR> Firewall

[Peter Drake]

Hi All

I have just got a sheet of 0.5mm Titanium for my firewall.

Has anyone got any tips on how best to attach it to the ply bulkhead.

Peter Drake
Hereford
UK

KR> Firewall beef up for nise gear

[stefkr2 at kpnmail.nl]

Hi,
In the Netherlands we all have a dhiel nose strut. Most of the times we use a 
gras runway. Nobody of us has a angel to reinforce the fire wall for the nose 
gear. ( I had last month the Same discusion with my dad but if nobody in the 
dutchies has it, we only made a 2024t3 allu backupplate)
Stef



Steph and his dad are building the KR-2S see   
http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2




>Origineel Bericht
>Van : krnet at list.krnet.org
>Datum : 04/12/2014 02:40
>Aan : ppaulvsk at aol.com, krnet at list.krnet.org
>Onderwerp : Re: KR> Firewall beef up for nise gear
>
>Thank guys for the imput. I think now all I need is a 90 degree angle on the 
>backside.?
>
>Paul Visk
>Belleville Il
>618 406 4705
>
>
>Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4
>
> Original message 
>From: ppaulvsk via KRnet  
>Date: 12/03/2014  9:15 AM  (GMT-06:00) 
>To: KR EMAIL BOARD  
>Subject: KR> Firewall beef up for nise gear 
> 
>I'm looking at ideas for beefing up my firewall for my nose gear.?
>One that looks interesting is a piece of extrusion from the nose gear attach 
>point to the main spare.?
>Any other ideas?
>
>Paul Visk
>Belleville Il
>618 406 4705
>
>
>
>Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4
>___
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>options
>

KR> Firewall beef up for nise gear

[ppaulvsk]

Thank guys for the imput. I think now all I need is a 90 degree angle on the 
backside.?

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618 406 4705


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4

 Original message 
From: ppaulvsk via KRnet  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 12/03/2014  9:15 AM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: KR EMAIL BOARD  
Subject: KR> Firewall beef up for nise gear 

I'm looking at ideas for beefing up my firewall for my nose gear.?
One that looks interesting is a piece of extrusion from the nose gear attach 
point to the main spare.?
Any other ideas?

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618 406 4705



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4
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KR> Firewall beef up for nise gear

[Joe Nunley]

So will the Deihl nose gear work on a grass strip?  Would it be so bumpy?
How much stress do you believe it can weather?

Joe Nunley


On Dec 3, 2014 12:38 PM, "Mark Jones via KRnet" 
wrote:
>
> I have not heard of any Diehl actually collapsing at the firewall attach
point. If it did I feel you have more to worry about than the nose gear.
The Diehl nose gear is designed to collapse in the event of a hard landing
at the forward most downward bend of the strut just above the wheel fork.
Diehl designed this in to protect the firewall from being ripped out in the
event of a hard Landing. I was not aware of that until after Joe Horton
folded his under and I panicked and welded a support brace in that bend
because I thought it was a weak point. As soon as the photo of that brace
was put on my web site I received a phone call explaining that I had made a
mistake and would now possibly rip my firewall out if I ever made an off
field landing that was compromising. If I were you I would leave it as
designed so it will do it's job when called upon.
>
> Mark Jones
>
> Sent from my iPhone 6
>
> > On Dec 3, 2014, at 12:17 PM, ppaulvsk  wrote:
> >
> > I'm using Diehl nose gear design.  I just heard of nose gears
collapsing  at the firewall on hard landings.
> >
> > Paul Visk
> > Belleville Il
> > 618 406 4705
> >
> > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4
> >
> >
> >
> >  Original message 
> > From: Mark Jones 
> > Date: 12/03/2014 12:07 PM (GMT-06:00)
> > To: ppaulvsk ,KRnet 
> > Subject: Re: KR> Firewall beef up for nise gear
> >
> >
> > Paul,
> > Are you using the Diehl nose gear? If so why do you feel the need to
beef up the firewall?
> >
> > Mark Jones
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone 6
> >
> > > On Dec 3, 2014, at 9:15 AM, ppaulvsk via KRnet 
wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm looking at ideas for beefing up my firewall for my nose gear.
> > > One that looks interesting is a piece of extrusion from the nose gear
attach point to the main spare.
> > > Any other ideas?
> > >
> > > Paul Visk
> > > Belleville Il
> > > 618 406 4705
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4
> > > ___
> > > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> > > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
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change options
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optio

KR> Firewall beef up for nose gear

[Sid Wood]

I used the Diehl nose gear that bolts to the bottom of the firewall and 
struts bolt to the back of the adapter case and engine mount for the 2180 
VW.  Inside the back of the firewall I put an aluminum angle 2" x 2" x 0.125 
full width of the firewall for reinforcement.  The original KR-2 plans did 
not foresee a nose wheel installation, so needed some extra support for the 
attach point.  The five-point engine mount also bolts through aluminum 
angles top and bottom.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/expercraft/sidwood/40886159746196c8b11e86.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/expercraft/sidwood/50206507746196c8b1f557.jpg
If you move the engine forward 2-inches using spacer blocks as many 
recommend for better cg, then you will need a spacer block to move the base 
of the nose gear strut forward as well.  I have done that, but don't have a 
picture.  I managed to bend the nose strut on my first flight with a wheel 
barrow landing.  That got fixed with a new strut.  No other damage to the 
attachment points or firewall.

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA

-Original Message- 

I'm looking at ideas for beefing up my firewall for my nose gear.?
One that looks interesting is a piece of extrusion from the nose gear attach 
point to the main spare.?
Any other ideas?

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618 406 4705

KR> Firewall beef up for nise gear

[Mark Jones]

I have not heard of any Diehl actually collapsing at the firewall attach point. 
If it did I feel you have more to worry about than the nose gear. The Diehl 
nose gear is designed to collapse in the event of a hard landing at the forward 
most downward bend of the strut just above the wheel fork. Diehl designed this 
in to protect the firewall from being ripped out in the event of a hard 
Landing. I was not aware of that until after Joe Horton folded his under and I 
panicked and welded a support brace in that bend because I thought it was a 
weak point. As soon as the photo of that brace was put on my web site I 
received a phone call explaining that I had made a mistake and would now 
possibly rip my firewall out if I ever made an off field landing that was 
compromising. If I were you I would leave it as designed so it will do it's job 
when called upon.

Mark Jones 

Sent from my iPhone 6

> On Dec 3, 2014, at 12:17 PM, ppaulvsk  wrote:
> 
> I'm using Diehl nose gear design.  I just heard of nose gears collapsing  at 
> the firewall on hard landings. 
> 
> Paul Visk
> Belleville Il
> 618 406 4705
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4
> 
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Mark Jones  
> Date: 12/03/2014 12:07 PM (GMT-06:00) 
> To: ppaulvsk ,KRnet  
> Subject: Re: KR> Firewall beef up for nise gear 
> 
> 
> Paul,
> Are you using the Diehl nose gear? If so why do you feel the need to beef up 
> the firewall?
> 
> Mark Jones 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6
> 
> > On Dec 3, 2014, at 9:15 AM, ppaulvsk via KRnet  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > I'm looking at ideas for beefing up my firewall for my nose gear. 
> > One that looks interesting is a piece of extrusion from the nose gear 
> > attach point to the main spare. 
> > Any other ideas?
> > 
> > Paul Visk
> > Belleville Il
> > 618 406 4705
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> > options

KR> Firewall beef up for nise gear

[ppaulvsk]

I'm using Diehl nose gear design. ?I just heard of nose gears collapsing ?at 
the firewall on hard landings.?

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618 406 4705

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4

 Original message 
From: Mark Jones  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 12/03/2014  12:07 PM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: ppaulvsk ,KRnet  
Subject: Re: KR> Firewall beef up for nise gear 

Paul,
Are you using the Diehl nose gear? If so why do you feel the need to beef up 
the firewall?

Mark Jones 

Sent from my iPhone 6

> On Dec 3, 2014, at 9:15 AM, ppaulvsk via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> I'm looking at ideas for beefing up my firewall for my nose gear. 
> One that looks interesting is a piece of extrusion from the nose gear attach 
> point to the main spare. 
> Any other ideas?
> 
> Paul Visk
> Belleville Il
> 618 406 4705
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4
> ___
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> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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> options

KR> Firewall beef up for nise gear

[Mark Jones]

Paul,
Are you using the Diehl nose gear? If so why do you feel the need to beef up 
the firewall?

Mark Jones 

Sent from my iPhone 6

> On Dec 3, 2014, at 9:15 AM, ppaulvsk via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> I'm looking at ideas for beefing up my firewall for my nose gear. 
> One that looks interesting is a piece of extrusion from the nose gear attach 
> point to the main spare. 
> Any other ideas?
> 
> Paul Visk
> Belleville Il
> 618 406 4705
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
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> options

KR> Firewall beef up for nise gear

[ppaulvsk]

I'm looking at ideas for beefing up my firewall for my nose gear.?
One that looks interesting is a piece of extrusion from the nose gear attach 
point to the main spare.?
Any other ideas?

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618 406 4705



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4

KR> firewall

[Dan Heath]

I screwed ( bolted ) mine in place around the edges when putting on the
piano hinge and then let the rest of the stuff being applied to the
firewall, be what held it in place.  Also, I did not use what everyone else
used between the wood and steel.  I got fire retardant paint from AS and
applied many coats of it to the wood before putting on the steel.  If you
think that is bad, then think about using aluminum as a firewall.  I
thought, and still do, that it was good, because it actually distinguished
the fire.



Your results WILL vary.



See N64KR at   http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
the pics 



Peoples Choice at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best KR at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Interior at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Paint at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Firwwall Forward at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 



Best Interior and Panel at 2008 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN





Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC







-Original Message-
I cut the stainless for my firewall to day. do I need to epoxy it to the
plane or just screw it in place?

KR> firewall

[Randy Moore Newbern Tn. N318RM]

 thanks  I will get enough to get it done , then I will mix up some flox and 
epoxy and add it about 1 in on the outside of it then secure with screws when I 
install the flange to attach the cowl to


-Original Message-
From: Flesner via KRnet 
To: KRnet 
Sent: Sun, Nov 23, 2014 6:27 pm
Subject: Re: KR> firewall




>I cut the stainless for my firewall to day. do I need to epoxy it to 
>the plane or just screw it in place?
>Randy Moore
+

You will want to put a layer of "fiberfrax" over the ply for fire 
protection before applying the stainless.  A bit of epoxy, especially 
around the edges, help to dress up the firewall and keep oil and 
other contaminates from getting behind the stainless.

http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.com/keyword/?&plpver=10&key=all&keycateg=100&SchType=2&keyword=fiber%20frax&refer=http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.com


Larry Flesner 


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KR> firewall

[Randy Moore Newbern Tn. N318RM]

I cut the stainless for my firewall to day. do I need to epoxy it to the plane 
or just screw it in place?



Randy Moore
Newbern Tn 
731 589 1330

KR> firewall

[Flesner]

>I cut the stainless for my firewall to day. do I need to epoxy it to 
>the plane or just screw it in place?
>Randy Moore
+

You will want to put a layer of "fiberfrax" over the ply for fire 
protection before applying the stainless.  A bit of epoxy, especially 
around the edges, help to dress up the firewall and keep oil and 
other contaminates from getting behind the stainless.

http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.com/keyword/?&plpver=10&key=all&keycateg=100&SchType=2&keyword=fiber%20frax&refer=http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.com


Larry Flesner 

KR> firewall

[Dan]

I picked up some fiberfax from an insulation company that wraps high-tech
equipment out here in Portland.  They use a fabric adhesive like V&S Foam &
Fabric Spray on surfaces to keep the fiberfax in place.  Walmart sells a
similar fabric spray.  I plan on epoxying the edges like Larry suggested to
adhere the stainless.  I think there will be plenty of things passing
through the firewall to keep it tight.

Dan Prichard
Portland Oregon

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Randy Moore
Newbern Tn. N318RM via KRnet
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2014 4:49 PM
To: flesner at frontier.com; krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: Re: KR> firewall


 thanks  I will get enough to get it done , then I will mix up some flox and
epoxy and add it about 1 in on the outside of it then secure with screws
when I install the flange to attach the cowl to


-Original Message-
From: Flesner via KRnet 
To: KRnet 
Sent: Sun, Nov 23, 2014 6:27 pm
Subject: Re: KR> firewall




>I cut the stainless for my firewall to day. do I need to epoxy it to 
>the plane or just screw it in place?
>Randy Moore
+

You will want to put a layer of "fiberfrax" over the ply for fire protection
before applying the stainless.  A bit of epoxy, especially around the edges,
help to dress up the firewall and keep oil and other contaminates from
getting behind the stainless.

http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.com/keyword/?&plpver=10&key=all&keycat
eg=100&SchType=2&keyword=fiber%20frax&refer=http://aircraftproducts.wicksair
craft.com


Larry Flesner 


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KR> Firewall - from Nats Cozy Newsletters

[Rogelio Serrano]

http://tugantek.com/cozylinks/NNLS/test/nlFirewall.php

KR> Firewall material

[Rogelio Serrano]

On 15 Mar 2014 12:52, "Kenneth B. Jones"  wrote:
>
Snipped...
>
>
> John/Rogelio,
>
> IF certifying under FAR 23, and using other than the listed materials,
then the fire test is required. Who knows?  Perhaps .005" stainless over
Fiberfrax is better than .015 stainless.
>
> Ken

I agree. Someone needs to do the test...

Wonder what's needed. thermal camera and a big enough burner and of course
firewall material.

>
> > ?23.1191
> > (h) THE FOLLOWING MATERIALS MAY BE USED in firewalls or shrouds
"WITHOUT BEING TESTED" as required by this section:
>
 
-
> > (1) Stainless steel sheet, 0.015 inch thick.
> > (2) Mild steel sheet (coated with aluminum or otherwise protected
against
> > corrosion) 0.018 inch thick.
> > (3) Terne plate, 0.018 inch thick.
> > (4) Monel metal, 0.018 inch thick.
> > (5) Steel or copper base alloy firewall fittings.
> > (6) Titanium sheet, 0.016 inch thick.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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options

KR> Firewall material

[Rogelio Serrano]

.015 in Stainless seem to be the only option...

On 15 Mar 2014 04:14, "Kenneth B. Jones"  wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 14, 2014, at 11:18 PM, John Bouyea wrote:
>
> >  Anyone
> > make a reference as to what heat level/ temprature and duration is
> > "approved" as a test?
> >
>
>
> 2000 degrees F for 15 minutes, per part 23.
> ?23.1191   Firewalls.
> (a) Each engine, auxiliary power unit, fuel burning heater, and other
combustion equipment, must be isolated from the rest of the airplane by
firewalls, shrouds, or equivalent means.
>
> (b) Each firewall or shroud must be constructed so that no hazardous
quantity of liquid, gas, or flame can pass from the compartment created by
the firewall or shroud to other parts of the airplane.
>
> (c) Each opening in the firewall or shroud must be sealed with close
fitting, fireproof grommets, bushings, or firewall fittings.
>
> (d) [Reserved]
>
> (e) Each firewall and shroud must be fireproof and protected against
corrosion.
>
> (f) Compliance with the criteria for fireproof materials or components
must be shown as follows:
>
> (1) The flame to which the materials or components are subjected must be
2,000 ?150 ?F.
>
> (2) Sheet materials approximately 10 inches square must be subjected to
the flame from a suitable burner.
>
> (3) The flame must be large enough to maintain the required test
temperature over an area approximately five inches square.
>
> (g) Firewall materials and fittings must resist flame penetration for at
least 15 minutes.
>
> (h) The following materials may be used in firewalls or shrouds without
being tested as required by this section:
>
> (1) Stainless steel sheet, 0.015 inch thick.
>
> (2) Mild steel sheet (coated with aluminum or otherwise protected against
corrosion) 0.018 inch thick.
>
> (3) Terne plate, 0.018 inch thick.
>
> (4) Monel metal, 0.018 inch thick.
>
> (5) Steel or copper base alloy firewall fittings.
>
> (6) Titanium sheet, 0.016 inch thick.
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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options

KR> Firewall material

[Dan Prichard]

Great info. I guess my point to the original question/comment was the designed 
material was not easily found or within a reasonable price.  The drawings still 
shows .005 stainless and asbestos on the firewall.   Maybe this dialog will 
bring about some sort of addendum to the drawings with a safe and compliant 
material recommendation.
As a minimum it's in the archives now.  Thanks again

Dan Prichard 
Portland Or. 

Sent from my iPhone

KR> Firewall material

[Kenneth B. Jones]

We're NOT certifying under Part 23.  The info I provided was in response to a 
question from John.  But, if you want to do the test, you can get some ideas 
from http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/handbook.stm


On Mar 15, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Rogelio Serrano wrote:

> On 15 Mar 2014 12:52, "Kenneth B. Jones"  wrote:
>> 
> Snipped...
>> 
>> 
>> John/Rogelio,
>> 
>> IF certifying under FAR 23, and using other than the listed materials,
> then the fire test is required. Who knows?  Perhaps .005" stainless over
> Fiberfrax is better than .015 stainless.
>> 
>> Ken
> 
> I agree. Someone needs to do the test...
> 
> Wonder what's needed. thermal camera and a big enough burner and of course
> firewall material.
> 
>> 
>>> ?23.1191
>>> (h) THE FOLLOWING MATERIALS MAY BE USED in firewalls or shrouds
> "WITHOUT BEING TESTED" as required by this section:
>> 
> 
>-
>>> (1) Stainless steel sheet, 0.015 inch thick.
>>> (2) Mild steel sheet (coated with aluminum or otherwise protected
> against
>>> corrosion) 0.018 inch thick.
>>> (3) Terne plate, 0.018 inch thick.
>>> (4) Monel metal, 0.018 inch thick.
>>> (5) Steel or copper base alloy firewall fittings.
>>> (6) Titanium sheet, 0.016 inch thick.
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
>> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change
> options
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> options

KR> Firewall material

[Virgil N.Salisbury]

 Fibnrefrax is the heat shield, not the stainless, Virg


On 3/15/2014 8:52 AM, Kenneth B. Jones wrot
>> .015 in Stainless seem to be the only option...
> Thanks for digging up the reference Ken! I'll see what I ca



>> n do.
>>
>> Right off the bat, the existing plans method for constructing our aircraft
>> with .005 stainless doesn't meet Part 23 requirements in any regard...
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
>
> John/Rogelio,
>
> IF certifying under FAR 23, and using other than the listed materials, then 
> the fire test is required. Who knows?  Perhaps .005" stainless over Fiberfrax 
> is better than .015 stainless.
>
> Ken
>
>> ?23.1191
>> (h) THE FOLLOWING MATERIALS MAY BE USED in firewalls or shrouds "WITHOUT 
>> BEING TESTED" as required by this section:
>   
>  -
>> (1) Stainless steel sheet, 0.015 inch thick.
>> (2) Mild steel sheet (coated with aluminum or otherwise protected against
>> corrosion) 0.018 inch thick.
>> (3) Terne plate, 0.018 inch thick.
>> (4) Monel metal, 0.018 inch thick.
>> (5) Steel or copper base alloy firewall fittings.
>> (6) Titanium sheet, 0.016 inch thick.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
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> options
>

KR> Firewall material

[Kenneth B. Jones]

> 
> 


On Mar 15, 2014, at 7:51 AM, Rogelio Serrano wrote:

> .015 in Stainless seem to be the only option...

On Mar 15, 2014, at 7:39 AM, John Bouyea wrote:

> Thanks for digging up the reference Ken! I'll see what I can do. 
> 
> Right off the bat, the existing plans method for constructing our aircraft
> with .005 stainless doesn't meet Part 23 requirements in any regard...

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=



John/Rogelio,

IF certifying under FAR 23, and using other than the listed materials, then the 
fire test is required. Who knows?  Perhaps .005" stainless over Fiberfrax is 
better than .015 stainless.

Ken

> ?23.1191
> (h) THE FOLLOWING MATERIALS MAY BE USED in firewalls or shrouds "WITHOUT 
> BEING TESTED" as required by this section:
    
  -
> (1) Stainless steel sheet, 0.015 inch thick.
> (2) Mild steel sheet (coated with aluminum or otherwise protected against
> corrosion) 0.018 inch thick.
> (3) Terne plate, 0.018 inch thick.
> (4) Monel metal, 0.018 inch thick.
> (5) Steel or copper base alloy firewall fittings.
> (6) Titanium sheet, 0.016 inch thick.

KR> Firewall material

[Mark Langford]

I should probably clarify that the exact type of aluminum doesn't matter 
much, given that it all melts at about the same temperature.  I'm guessing 
Tony recommended 2024-T6 because it's a little stiffer than most others and 
would look better, but if you've got any kind of .015" aluminum around, it 
should do just fine.

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
 

KR> Firewall material

[Mark Langford]

Ken Jones wrote:

>>IF certifying under FAR 23, and using other than the listed materials, 
>>then the fire test is required. Who knows?  Perhaps .005" stainless over 
>>Fiberfrax is better than .015 stainless.,<<

I bought the .015" thick stainless for my firewall, because I couldn't find 
anything thinner.  But as I was taking it out of the box, I'd already come 
to the conclusion "there's no way this is going on my plane!".  It weighed 4 
pounds 6 ounces, and almost all of that 2' x 3' sheet would end up on the 
front of my plane.

In his book "Firewall Forward", page 60, Tony Bengelis recommends .016" 
2024-T3 aluminum over Fiberfrax, although he doesn't say how thick the 
Fiberfrax should be.  I used the thicker of the two (1/8") Fiberfraxes that 
Wicks sold (it's VERY light).  Then I found that Rand Robinson did sell the 
.005" stainless, so I bought that and made a .005 stainless / Fiberfrax 
sandwich.

Lopping three pounds off the firewall is not always easy to do, so here's 
one place you can do it the easy way, probably cheaper than .015" stainless, 
when you consider that the .005" can be rolled and shipping is lower.  See 
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fiberfrax.php?clickkey=6977 
for Fiberfrax, although it ain't cheap, now that I've seen it...about $30 
for what you'd need.

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
 

KR> Firewall material

[John Bouyea]

Thanks for digging up the reference Ken! I'll see what I can do. 

Right off the bat, the existing plans method for constructing our aircraft
with .005 stainless doesn't meet Part 23 requirements in any regard...

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth B.
Jones
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 9:14 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Firewall material

On Mar 14, 2014, at 11:18 PM, John Bouyea wrote:
>  Anyone make a reference as to what heat level/ temprature and duration is
"approved" as a test?
> 

2000 degrees F for 15 minutes, per part 23.
?23.1191   Firewalls.
(a) Each engine, auxiliary power unit, fuel burning heater, and other
combustion equipment, must be isolated from the rest of the airplane by
firewalls, shrouds, or equivalent means.
(b) Each firewall or shroud must be constructed so that no hazardous
quantity of liquid, gas, or flame can pass from the compartment created by
the firewall or shroud to other parts of the airplane.
(c) Each opening in the firewall or shroud must be sealed with close
fitting, fireproof grommets, bushings, or firewall fittings.
(d) [Reserved]
(e) Each firewall and shroud must be fireproof and protected against
corrosion.
(f) Compliance with the criteria for fireproof materials or components must
be shown as follows:
(1) The flame to which the materials or components are subjected must be
2,000 ?150 ?F.
(2) Sheet materials approximately 10 inches square must be subjected to the
flame from a suitable burner.
(3) The flame must be large enough to maintain the required test temperature
over an area approximately five inches square.
(g) Firewall materials and fittings must resist flame penetration for at
least 15 minutes.
(h) The following materials may be used in firewalls or shrouds without
being tested as required by this section:
(1) Stainless steel sheet, 0.015 inch thick.
(2) Mild steel sheet (coated with aluminum or otherwise protected against
corrosion) 0.018 inch thick.
(3) Terne plate, 0.018 inch thick.
(4) Monel metal, 0.018 inch thick.
(5) Steel or copper base alloy firewall fittings.
(6) Titanium sheet, 0.016 inch thick.

KR> Firewall material

[Kenneth B. Jones]

On Mar 14, 2014, at 11:18 PM, John Bouyea wrote:

>  Anyone
> make a reference as to what heat level/ temprature and duration is
> "approved" as a test?
> 


2000 degrees F for 15 minutes, per part 23.
?23.1191   Firewalls.
(a) Each engine, auxiliary power unit, fuel burning heater, and other 
combustion equipment, must be isolated from the rest of the airplane by 
firewalls, shrouds, or equivalent means.

(b) Each firewall or shroud must be constructed so that no hazardous quantity 
of liquid, gas, or flame can pass from the compartment created by the firewall 
or shroud to other parts of the airplane.

(c) Each opening in the firewall or shroud must be sealed with close fitting, 
fireproof grommets, bushings, or firewall fittings.

(d) [Reserved]

(e) Each firewall and shroud must be fireproof and protected against corrosion.

(f) Compliance with the criteria for fireproof materials or components must be 
shown as follows:

(1) The flame to which the materials or components are subjected must be 2,000 
?150 ?F.

(2) Sheet materials approximately 10 inches square must be subjected to the 
flame from a suitable burner.

(3) The flame must be large enough to maintain the required test temperature 
over an area approximately five inches square.

(g) Firewall materials and fittings must resist flame penetration for at least 
15 minutes.

(h) The following materials may be used in firewalls or shrouds without being 
tested as required by this section:

(1) Stainless steel sheet, 0.015 inch thick.

(2) Mild steel sheet (coated with aluminum or otherwise protected against 
corrosion) 0.018 inch thick.

(3) Terne plate, 0.018 inch thick.

(4) Monel metal, 0.018 inch thick.

(5) Steel or copper base alloy firewall fittings.

(6) Titanium sheet, 0.016 inch thick.

KR> Firewall material

[John Bouyea]

I have to comment on the aluminum .vs. steel topic. In the case of our KR
aircraft, the metal only protects the fireproofing Fibrefrax material behind
it. Someone else commented this topic is covered in the Bingellis books.
Seems to me others in our community have built this way also.

I have samples of all the materials in my remnants pile. Perhaps I can get
my neighbor to fire up his torch this weekend and give this a try. Anyone
make a reference as to what heat level/ temprature and duration is
"approved" as a test?

John Bouyea
Hillsboro, OR

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of
brian.kraut at eamanufacturing.com
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 7:45 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Firewall material



I am pretty sure that you can get thin galvanized at Home Depot.  Any local
sheet metal place should have it also.  I got a 4' X 8' sheet of I think
.016" when I redid my Sonerai and Starduster firewalls.  I think it was
something like $30.  Aluminum will not block a fuel fire for very long.  All
aluminum planes have stainless or galvanized firewalls.  And now that I
look, Spruce sells a 3' X 2' piece of .016 stainless for only $35.

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KR> Firewall material

[brian.kraut at eamanufacturing.com]

I am pretty sure that you can get thin galvanized at Home Depot.  Any
local sheet metal place should have it also.  I got a 4' X 8' sheet of I
think .016" when I redid my Sonerai and Starduster firewalls.  I think
it was something like $30.  Aluminum will not block a fuel fire for very
long.  All aluminum planes have stainless or galvanized firewalls.  And
now that I look, Spruce sells a 3' X 2' piece of .016 stainless for only
$35.

KR> Firewall material

[brian.kraut at eamanufacturing.com]

KR> Firewall material

[jon kimmel]

It doesn't have to be stainless, but it does to be steel.  I found 24"x 32"
.024 galvanized for $13.00 at online metals...it might weigh 5 lbs but i
figure i am going to need ballast up front anyway.

https://sites.google.com/site/mykr2stretch/
https://sites.google.com/site/mykr2stretch/parts-for-sale
On Mar 13, 2014 6:00 PM, "Dan Prichard"  wrote:

> FYI. Neither wicks or aircraft spruce carry .005 stainless sheet or any
> other size below .015. I found a specialty supplier in Ashland Oregon and
> they want $63 per sqft. A touch spendy for me. Fortunately I have a piece
> coming from a generous KR builder. So for the other new builders out there,
> good luck and share with the group where you find it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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> options
>

KR> Firewall material

[Dan Heath]

I used stainless, and think it is .015, and painted the firewall with the
paint that kills fire.  I got the paint from AS and the stainless locally.
I can check on that stainless price and let you know.  It was nowhere near
the $65/sq ft. that was mentioned.  I am copying myself on this to work to
make a note to check the price.

Remember that aluminum burns really hot and is probably more detrimental
than protection.  I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night...

My Panther Building Documentation at PantherBuilder Web Site

Daniel R. Heath -?Lexington, SC

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Rob Schmitt
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 8:48 PM
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: Re: KR> Firewall material

I did not use Stainless steel. I used a layer of fiberfrax against the
firewall with aluminum sheet over it, pretty light gage probably 0.016 but
readily available.

Got the fiberfrax from Aircraft Spruce. Aluminum from local supplier. This
is recommend by Tony Bengalis in one of his books I recall. 

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fiberfrax.php?clickkey=6977


Rob Schmitt
N1852Z
www.robert7721.com


-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Prichard
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 5:59 PM
To: KR List
Subject: KR> Firewall material

FYI. Neither wicks or aircraft spruce carry .005 stainless sheet or any
other size below .015. I found a specialty supplier in Ashland Oregon and
they want $63 per sqft. A touch spendy for me. Fortunately I have a piece
coming from a generous KR builder. So for the other new builders out there,
good luck and share with the group where you find it. 

Sent from my iPhone
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KR> Firewall material

[Virgil N.Salisbury]

 How much is the Stainless and Fibrefrax firewall kit ? Virg


 On 3/13/2014 6:59 PM, Dan Prichard wrote:
> FYI. Neither wicks or aircraft spruce carry .005 stainless sheet or any other 
> size below .015. I found a specialty supplier in Ashland Oregon and they want 
> $63 per sqft. A touch spendy for me. Fortunately I have a piece coming from a 
> generous KR builder. So for the other new builders out there, good luck and 
> share with the group where you find it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
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> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options
>

KR> Firewall material

[Rob Schmitt]

I did not use Stainless steel. I used a layer of fiberfrax against the
firewall with aluminum sheet over it, pretty light gage probably 0.016 but
readily available.

Got the fiberfrax from Aircraft Spruce. Aluminum from local supplier. This
is recommend by Tony Bengalis in one of his books I recall. 

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fiberfrax.php?clickkey=6977


Rob Schmitt
N1852Z
www.robert7721.com


-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Prichard
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 5:59 PM
To: KR List
Subject: KR> Firewall material

FYI. Neither wicks or aircraft spruce carry .005 stainless sheet or any
other size below .015. I found a specialty supplier in Ashland Oregon and
they want $63 per sqft. A touch spendy for me. Fortunately I have a piece
coming from a generous KR builder. So for the other new builders out there,
good luck and share with the group where you find it. 

Sent from my iPhone
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KR> Firewall material

[Dan Prichard]

FYI. Neither wicks or aircraft spruce carry .005 stainless sheet or any other 
size below .015. I found a specialty supplier in Ashland Oregon and they want 
$63 per sqft. A touch spendy for me. Fortunately I have a piece coming from a 
generous KR builder. So for the other new builders out there, good luck and 
share with the group where you find it. 

Sent from my iPhone

KR> Firewall material?

[Virgil N.Salisbury]

 Wicks or Aircraft Spruce, Virg


 On 3/10/2014 8:11 PM, Dan Prichard wrote:
> Does anyone know where I can order .005" stainless steel for the firewall?
>
> Dan Prichard
> Portland, OR
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options
>

KR> Firewall material?

[Dan Prichard]

Does anyone know where I can order .005" stainless steel for the firewall?

Dan Prichard 
Portland, OR

Sent from my iPhone

KR> Firewall Space

[John Bouyea]

Mark, Please share with the group how the canopy "re-mount" design  is
implemented after the fact. I am very interested as the hinge on my KR2 is
failing & it's time for a re-do...

John Bouyea/ KR2 - N5391M/ Hillsboro, Oregon

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark Langford
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 2:41 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Firewall Space

Sid Wood wrote:

>I am continually amazed at how much clear space some KR's have on the 
>fire wall while others, like my KR-2, are packed.  Is there some rhyme 
>or reason for that?

I put as much stuff as possible on the aft side of the firewall, just to
keep it out of the heat.  That was made easy by the fact that the front deck
is easily removed in about three minutes after spending two minutes to
remove the cowling.  The battery, ignition coils, starter relay, fuel pumps,
fuel filters, and terminal strips for CHT and EGT thermocouple junctions
come to mind, but I'm sure there's other stuff as well.  In N891JF, I'll
soon be putting fuel pumps and fuel totalizer on the aft side of the
firewall for the same reason.  Having said that, things are tight with
engine mount, oil cooler, oil filter, oil separator, cabin heat valve, and
the flywheel only an inch away from the firewall. There's a lot to be said
for keeping most of that stuff mounted to the engine instead.

Forward hinging hinges are coming along fairly well.   Just need to match 
drill pivot points, sand down to final aerodynamic shape, paint, and 
reinstall.   I don't think they'll be very noticeable, nor will they hurt 
aerodynamics.  They ended up about .28" thick and 2" tall.  The canopy frame
would fail long before these hinges.  See enclosed photo...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
 

KR> Firewall Space

[Dene Collett]

Hi Mark
Is there some kind of "bump" just aft of the canopy frame and just below the
rear window or is it just the light playing tricks in the pic?

Regards
Dene Collett
Avlec Projects cc
Port Elizabeth 
South Africa



> >-Original Message-
> >From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark
Langford
> >Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 11:41 PM
> >To: KRnet
> >Subject: Re: KR> Firewall Space
> >
> >Sid Wood wrote:
> >
> >>I am continually amazed at how much clear space some KR's have on the
> >>fire wall while others, like my KR-2, are packed.  Is there some rhyme
> >>or reason for that?
> >
> >I put as much stuff as possible on the aft side of the firewall, just to
keep it out
> >of the heat.  That was made easy by the fact that the front deck is
easily removed
> >in about three minutes after spending two minutes to remove the cowling.
The
> >battery, ignition coils, starter relay, fuel pumps, fuel filters, and
terminal strips for
> >CHT and EGT thermocouple junctions come to mind, but I'm sure there's
other
> >stuff as well.  In N891JF, I'll soon be putting fuel pumps and fuel
totalizer on the
> >aft side of the firewall for the same reason.  Having said that, things
are tight with
> >engine mount, oil cooler, oil filter, oil separator, cabin heat valve,
and the flywheel
> >only an inch away from the firewall. There's a lot to be said for keeping
most of
> >that stuff mounted to the engine instead.
> >
> >Forward hinging hinges are coming along fairly well.   Just need to match
> >drill pivot points, sand down to final aerodynamic shape, paint, and
> >reinstall.   I don't think they'll be very noticeable, nor will they hurt
> >aerodynamics.  They ended up about .28" thick and 2" tall.  The canopy
frame
> >would fail long before these hinges.  See enclosed photo...
> >
> >Mark Langford
> >ML at N56ML.com
> >website at http://www.N56ML.com
> >

KR> Firewall Space

[Mark Langford]

Sid Wood wrote:

>I am continually amazed at how much clear space some KR's have on the fire 
>wall while others, like my KR-2, are packed.  Is there some rhyme or reason 
>for that?

I put as much stuff as possible on the aft side of the firewall, just to 
keep it out of the heat.  That was made easy by the fact that the front deck 
is easily removed in about three minutes after spending two minutes to 
remove the cowling.  The battery, ignition coils, starter relay, fuel pumps, 
fuel filters, and terminal strips for CHT and EGT thermocouple junctions 
come to mind, but I'm sure there's other stuff as well.  In N891JF, I'll 
soon be putting fuel pumps and fuel totalizer on the aft side of the 
firewall for the same reason.  Having said that, things are tight with 
engine mount, oil cooler, oil filter, oil separator, cabin heat valve, and 
the flywheel only an inch away from the firewall. There's a lot to be said 
for keeping most of that stuff mounted to the engine instead.

Forward hinging hinges are coming along fairly well.   Just need to match 
drill pivot points, sand down to final aerodynamic shape, paint, and 
reinstall.   I don't think they'll be very noticeable, nor will they hurt 
aerodynamics.  They ended up about .28" thick and 2" tall.  The canopy frame 
would fail long before these hinges.  See enclosed photo...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
 
-- next part --
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KR> Firewall Space

[smwood]

I am continually amazed at how much clear space some KR's have on the fire 
wall while others, like my KR-2, are packed.  Is there some rhyme or reason 
for that?

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA

---
> See enclosed photo.  More to come...
>
> Mark Langford
> URL: 
> 
>
> --

KR> Firewall

[Virgil N. Salisbury]

On 2/18/2012 5:39 PM, Glenn Gmail wrote:
> I'm considering Getting 5/16in 5 ply maple/basswood for the firewall.
> Has anyone used this rather than the 1/4 in 3 ply?

Try for 5 ply 1/4 inch, Virg

KR> Firewall

[Larry&Sallie Flesner]

At 04:39 PM 2/18/2012, you wrote:
>I'm considering Getting 5/16in 5 ply maple/basswood for the firewall.
>Has anyone used this rather than the 1/4 in 3 ply?
>Glenn Martin,
+++

Unless there is a considerable price or availability issue, stick 
with the 1/4 inch.  I think my 1/4 inch was 5 ply.  Adding an 
additional "ply" here and there is one of the reasons my KR ended up 
weighing 760 pounds. :-(  Keep it light, keep it light, keep it light.

Got a 50 mile cross country flight in the KR today.  Great air and I 
LOVE the way my KR flies.  Three kiss it on landings.  :-)

Larry Flesner

KR> Firewall

[Glenn Gmail]

I'm considering Getting 5/16in 5 ply maple/basswood for the firewall. 
Has anyone used this rather than the 1/4 in 3 ply?
-- 
Glenn Martin,
KR2 N1333A,
Biloxi, MS

KR> Firewall wood

[Glenn Martin]

I am going to order the wood to replace the firewall. I selected Maple/Poplar, 
5/16th aircraft grade 90 degree 5 ply (currently has 3 ply). This is for a KR2, 
not a KR2S. Also 1/8 in fiberfrax. Any recommendations before I order it? 

 
Glenn Martin
KR2 N1333A
Biloxi, MS

KR> Firewall Covering

[Mark Jones]

Chris,
What I did was to apply high temp fireplace silicone to the wood firewall. I 
simply spread a thin coat over the entire firewall and then applied a sheet 
of fiberfrax to it. I allowed this to cure and then did the same for a sheet 
of stainless steel. The silicone will hold both the fiberfrax and SS in 
place while you mount everything to the firewall.

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI
E-mail: flyk...@charter.net
Web: www.flykr2s.com

- Original Message - 
From: "Chris corbine" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 3:24 PM
Subject: KR> Firewall Covering


Netters,

What is the best method to cover the firewall plywood and make it fireproof? 
I was thinking I'd use sheet metal (about 22 gauge SS) But I do not know of 
a good adhesive. I was wondering if there are any other good ideas out 
there.. All inputs are welcome...


Thanks,
Chris Corbine
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KR> Firewall Covering

[Dan Heath]

Chris,

I can't tell you the best way, but I just re-built mine due to the "Swiss
Cheese" look that it had after I removed the VW.  I chose .018 SS on the
wood which I painted with FireStop.  I got these from AS.  The SS is
attached to the firewall by nothing other than the screws and bolts that
have to go through it anyway.  That way, If I ever need to change it out, it
will be easy to do, and it was much easier to install than using the
conventional method.  However, I only know what I know because I stayed at a
Holiday Inn Express and what I do know is that your results will vary.

See you at the Gathering, with the Black Bird, I hope.

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2011 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN
There is a time for building and it never seems to end.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC


-Original Message-

What is the best method to cover the firewall plywood and make it fireproof

KR> Firewall Covering

[Bernard McLean Sr]

I don't know what others have done...I used .016 SS over 1/16 Fibrefrax
attached to 1/4' firewall with T-88.
Bernie McLean
Poplar Grove IL
Building KR-2 w/Corvair power.

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Chris corbine
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 3:25 PM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> Firewall Covering

Netters,

What is the best method to cover the firewall plywood and make it
fireproof?  I was thinking I'd use sheet metal (about 22 gauge SS) But I do
not know of a good adhesive.  I was wondering if there are any other good
ideas out there..  All inputs are welcome...


Thanks,
Chris Corbine
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KR> Firewall Covering

[Virgil N. Salisbury]

Fibrefrax and SS. The kit should be available from AS or Wicks, Virg


On 7/24/2011 4:24 PM, Chris corbine wrote:
> Netters,
>
> What is the best method to cover the firewall plywood and make it fireproof?  
> I was thinking I'd use sheet metal (about 22 gauge SS) But I do not know of a 
> good adhesive.  I was wondering if there are any other good ideas out there.. 
>  All inputs are welcome...
>
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Corbine
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Firewall Covering

[Chris corbine]

Netters,

What is the best method to cover the firewall plywood and make it fireproof?  I 
was thinking I'd use sheet metal (about 22 gauge SS) But I do not know of a 
good adhesive.  I was wondering if there are any other good ideas out there..  
All inputs are welcome...


Thanks,
Chris Corbine

KR> Firewall attachment

[stef...@kpnmail.nl]

Hey guys,

Over here in the Netherlands we are bussy with the fwd deck, canopy frame and 
the aft deck. If I am looking at the next stage we have to think about the fire 
wall. We have made the decision to go for an 100 HP engine. Did any of you make 
the connection from the firewall to the fuselage stronger ? How did you do it?  

Thanks Stef 








Stef and Ted are building the KR-2S see   
http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2

KR> firewall material connection.

[stef...@kpnmail.nl]

Hey guys,

Over here in the Netherlands we are bussy with the fwd deck, canopy frame and 
the aft deck. If I am looking at the next stage we have to think about the fire 
wall. We have made the decision to go for an 100 HP engine. Did any of you make 
the connetion from the firewall to the fuselage stronger ? How did you do it?  

Thanks Stef 









Stef and Ted are building the KR-2S see   
http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2

KR>firewall material

[Robert Wood]

Hi folks,
I have a question. I've been using T88 epoxy and decided to try  
Aeropoxy PR2032 Resin with
PH3660 hardener. I glassed a part of my elevator with it three days  
ago and, although it has
set up and no longer tacky, it is still flexible. I can still indent  
it with my finger. Is it ever going
to get harder or will it stay flexible forever? By this time T88  
would be hard as rock.

Thanks,
Bob

KR>firewall material

[Mark Langford]

McMaster Carr sells various thicknesses of thin stainless steel.  I used 
some .005" for some of the "NACA duct" protection from exhaust heat that I 
put under those ducts.  See 
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/117/3710/=bh9nfp .  A 24" x 50" piece of 
.005" is $42.05.
Also, a 2'x3' piece of Fiberfrax can be bought for $30 from 
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fiberfrax.php .   I used high 
temp silicone to hold the Fiberfrax/stainless in place until my engine mount 
and cowling fasteners were in place.  My guess is this setup will do the 
job, although I have not tested it in flight, fortunately.

I flew late yesterday for a little while, thanks to the longer days offered 
by daylight savings time (which should be a year-round thing, as far as I'm 
concerned).  I did eight touch-n-goes at four airports in a matter of maybe 
45 minutes, and ended it with some nice sunset pictures...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com

KR>firewall material

[Mark Langford]

Some folks asked where to get Fiberfrax.  See 
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php .  I think I used 1/8", but 
1/16" is supposed to work fine.  I guess that's another reason my plane is 
heavy, although fiberfrax is a tiny fraction of the weight of stainless 
steel, and that was my logic in the tradeoff between steel thicknesses. 
Last time I checked, Rand Robinson sold thin stainless sheet.  I'm guessing 
that means NVaero might sell it now, but I'll leave that to Steve to comment 
on.  High temp silicone should be an acceptable adhesive for it, so I've 
heard.

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website www.n56ml.com

KR>firewall material

[Jose Fuentes]

Hmmm that is true, though I do have a real small tank too so there is alot
of weight savings there. Guess it all depends on several factors. I guess if
I was going the two place route I would worry more about it as tyring to lug
300-400lbs of humans then every single pound saved counts.

I won't ever have that extra 150-200 lbs in my plane. Guess I would have to
weigh the benifits of a thicker firewall vs the thinner one.

I had also planned to put in roll bars to go over my head in the back
(incase it lands on the top) and have those bars to all the way to the
firewall (to offer a little more structural support in case of crash without
it collapsing on me). Not sure if that is going to be over kill (at least
the bars going all the way to the firewall).

Joe

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 11:01 PM, Mark Langford  wrote:

> Joe Fuentes wrote:
>
> >>Was reading though the plans, and it seems it was supposed to have
> cooking
> foil thin firewall, .005, gezz that is thin!! No wonder it peeled off with
> my fingers. I'm going with stainless steel at .035 yea a little more
> weight,
> but...<<
>
> I thought exactly the same thing, so I ordered some .016" stainless.  I
> took
> it out of the box and said "gz, this is way too heavy!", and I still
> have it leaning up against the wall.  If the .005" and lightweight
> fiberfrax
> does the job, anything else is dead weight.  I think it was .004" that I
> found eventually, backed it with 1/8" fiberfrax, and I'm pretty happy with
> that.  A little quick math shows you're talking 8.5 pounds vs my .98
> pounds.
> Some KR and Corvair folks would donate an organ to save 7.5 pounds...
>
> Mark Langford
> ML at N56ML.com
> website at http://www.N56ML.com 
> 
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>



-- 
Jose Fuentes
Founding Father (one of and former Vice Prez) of Capital City.NET User's
Group
Former Microsoft MVP
http://blogs.aspadvice.com/jfuentes

KR>firewall material

[Mark Langford]

Joe Fuentes wrote:

>>Was reading though the plans, and it seems it was supposed to have cooking
foil thin firewall, .005, gezz that is thin!! No wonder it peeled off with
my fingers. I'm going with stainless steel at .035 yea a little more weight,
but...<<

I thought exactly the same thing, so I ordered some .016" stainless.  I took 
it out of the box and said "gz, this is way too heavy!", and I still 
have it leaning up against the wall.  If the .005" and lightweight fiberfrax 
does the job, anything else is dead weight.  I think it was .004" that I 
found eventually, backed it with 1/8" fiberfrax, and I'm pretty happy with 
that.  A little quick math shows you're talking 8.5 pounds vs my .98 pounds. 
Some KR and Corvair folks would donate an organ to save 7.5 pounds...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
 

KR> Firewall Stainless

[Mark Langford]

Dan Heath wrote:

> What thickness and alloy is being used now, for the firewall.  I will be
> re-surfacing mine when I install the Corvair and will use Stainless. 
> Also,
> what is the insulation material that is preferred.

I bought a piece of  .016" stainless for my firewall and was shocked the 
first time I picked it up.  I hadn't even thought about .016" thick SS being 
heavy, but once it was in my hand I immediately decided I was going to use 
something else. That's a lot of weight!   RR was selling something like 
.006" stainless firewall material, so I bought .006" stainless  from 
somewhere and 1/8" fiberfrax from Wicks and saved a lot of weight...

Mark Langford
N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
website at http://www.N56ML.com

KR> Firewall Stainless

[Marty Martin]

I have seen 0.040 with stainless and 0.06 with aluminum.  Use Fiber
Frax.  It comes in to thickness's.

Hope this helps

Cheers

M. Greg Martin
>
> Dan Heath wrote:
>> What thickness and alloy is being used now, for the firewall.  I will be
>> re-surfacing mine when I install the Corvair and will use Stainless.
>> Also,
>> what is the insulation material that is preferred.
>>
>>
>>
>>

KR> Firewall Stainless and Insulation

[ttcse/Tom]

Seems the tendency to deform might depend on the difference in thickness 
between compressed fiberfrax to the cut-out area without fiberfrax.  I've never 
seen the stuff so I wouldn't know.    If it's much perhaps substitute the 
cut-out with a thin washer of the cut-out size?   

--- On Sun, 6/27/10, Dan Heath  wrote:


From: Dan Heath 
Subject: RE: KR> Firewall Stainless and Insulation
To: "'KRnet'" 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Sunday, June 27, 2010, 11:43 AM


 I imagine that the stainless would be terribly
deformed.  

KR> Firewall Stainless and Insulation

[Larry H.]

Hi Dan,

Have not tried the method listed at the bottom but:

On the LONGEZE we were to use Fiberfrax on the firewall covered over with Type 
301 or 302  .016 Stainless Steel Sheet

Larry Howell

 




From: Dan Heath da...@windstream.net


Has anyone used this method?  It looks good to me for getting the mount
directly on the firewall, but I imagine that the stainless would be terribly
deformed.  The engine on the Black Bird, and the one on the Little Beast,
were mounted on top of all the layers as I had never given any thought to
the issues that may bring about.

KR> Firewall Stainless and Insulation

[Dan Heath]

Has anyone used this method?  It looks good to me for getting the mount
directly on the firewall, but I imagine that the stainless would be terribly
deformed.  The engine on the Black Bird, and the one on the Little Beast,
were mounted on top of all the layers as I had never given any thought to
the issues that may bring about.

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2010 - KR Gathering in Richmond, Ky - I39
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying
has begun.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC


-Original Message-
- Cut circles out of the fiberfax approximating the engine mount washers
about 1/4" in diameter larger,
- Apply the silicone, then the fiberfax, then the SS firewall material. 
- Now use a bolt the size you would use for the engine mount. 
- Put a washer the same size as the  one used in manufacturing the mount
(foot) (that goes to the firewall) on the bolt. 
- Stick the bolt through the stainless steel through the  firewall hole ,
washer the inside, nut it and draw it down tightly.

KR> Firewall Stainless and Insulation

[ttcse/Tom]

Dan, 
 
Let me share this chatter and general concensus from another composite 
homebuilt community.  (I can't recall which one anymore ;)   Just sharing what 
I read and I'm not smart enough to comment on it myself.

One poster
  " I have thought about the use of SS for firewall protection and this seems to
be a good idea because the SS effectively stops flame penetration. The one
major drawback of SS is weight. 
    There is a product called 'Stainless tool foil wrap' It is used to wrap 
steel parts for 
furnace heat steel part treatment to exclude air.  It is .002 thick and comes 
in 2' by 50' rolls.  
This material can stand up to 2100 degrees F (Type 309 or 1800 degrees F (Type 
321). 20" x 50' $155 or $115. 
    If a fiber fax and thin aluminum sheet (Maybe aluminum in front of the SS). 
is used as 
backup it could be a lighter less costly solution. One roll of this material 
would make at least twenty firewalls.
    This product would stop the flame pentration and would save about 5 lbs in 
weight over 
the .018 thick stuff. (A aluminum sheet backing would still be needed however.) 
The SS could be sandwiched between the alumium and fiberfax or it could be 
glued to 
the face of the aluminum."
 
Regarding insulation... 
They had at least one actual nail-biting engine fire where the followng was 
tested. The fire burnt thru where the RTV wasn't.
- For insulation it's:  fiberfrax
- For insulation-firewall adhesive it's: "High-temp red RTV silicone from the 
auto-parts store. The stuff, itself is very resistant to flames and heat."

Specific comments include...
- "Do not waste your money on the special adhesive they sell for the fiberfrax.
It is useless(as an adhesive and fire suppressor). Red silicone is much better."
- "RTV is much more expensive than the adhesive provided with fiberfrax"
- "You will need 3or4 tubes to put the fiberfax on the firewall."
- "trowling that stuff on for 100% coverage to bond the fiberfrax on and then 
to bond a stainless firewall to that. Aluminum is pretty much useless there, 
decorative at best."

Another poster
"- Cut to shape the fiberfax for the firewall, 
- Cut circles out of the fiberfax approximating the engine mount washers about 
1/4" in diameter larger, 
- Apply the silicone, then the fiberfax, then the SS firewall material. 
- Now use a bolt the size you would use for the engine mount. 
- Put a washer the same size as the  one used in manufacturing the mount (foot) 
(that goes to the firewall) on the bolt. 
- Stick the bolt through the stainless steel through the  firewall hole , 
washer the inside, nut it and draw it down tightly.
- Do  that for each of the 4 mounting holes for the engine mount. 
- Let the silicone  harden. 
- What this will do is to compress the stainless steel, under the engine  mount 
feet, directly on the firewall with no fiberfax underneath it and bevel (to 
none) the 
stainless steel from the thickness of the fiberfax, underneath it.  
- You will then have a good contact surface between the engine mount and the  
firewall,  (throgh the stainless steel, rather than having a compressible  
material (fiberfax) between the mount feet and the firewall,  which may 
possibly continue to compress and possibly cause future  looseness. 
- Remove the bolts and bolt on your engine mount."
 
Tom

--- On Sun, 6/27/10, Dan Heath  wrote:


From: Dan Heath 
Subject: KR> Firewall Stainless
To: "'KRnet'" 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Sunday, June 27, 2010, 8:13 AM


 

KR> Firewall Stainless

[Virgil N. Salisbury]

Wicks & AS carry the firewall kit. Stainless and fibrefax, Virg


Dan Heath wrote:
> What thickness and alloy is being used now, for the firewall.  I will be
> re-surfacing mine when I install the Corvair and will use Stainless.  Also,
> what is the insulation material that is preferred.
>
>  
>
> Yes, I searched the archives back to 2006 and did not find the answer.
>
>  
>
> Daniel R. Heath
>
> da...@windstream.net
>
> See N64KR at   http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
> the pics 
>
> See you at the 2010 - KR Gathering in Richmond, Ky - I39
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>   

KR> Firewall Stainless

[Dan Heath]

What thickness and alloy is being used now, for the firewall.  I will be
re-surfacing mine when I install the Corvair and will use Stainless.  Also,
what is the insulation material that is preferred.



Yes, I searched the archives back to 2006 and did not find the answer.



Daniel R. Heath

da...@windstream.net

See N64KR at   http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
the pics 

See you at the 2010 - KR Gathering in Richmond, Ky - I39

KR> Firewall separation, not from normal use.

[Richard Collins]

We bought a second home in Arizona.  I have thought about moving the AVID to AZ 
via trailer.  I have also thought about flying it until I approach more hostile 
terrain, then trailer it through the mountain ranges, hoping to avoid bouncing 
it around as much as possible.  But either way,  I am glad I saw  your post on 
this issue.  Even though the Rotax 503, including, the PSRU weighs less than 
the VW 1915 on the Beast, I know now that I will remove the engine when 
trailering, if I decide to make the trip.
 
 
 
I was so unaware of all the hidden "monsters" in the KR2, which, had I built it 
myself, I may have been able to anticipate.  I wonder at times if other non 
builders who have bought KR2s were as ill prepared to be an owner as I was.  
Only a rhetorical question for me, but it may be worth a discussion on the net. 
 I cannot imagine a seller who would have been more informative and helpful 
than you, and, still, I was unable to manage the "Little Beast".  Hope things 
are going well with you, your family and the Blackbird.
 
Yours, as always, Rick

--- On Tue, 6/2/09, Dan Heath  wrote:


From: Dan Heath 
Subject: KR> Firewall separation, not from normal use.
To: "'KRnet'" 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 8:56 AM


I suggest that you also remove the engine.  When the Little Beast was
delivered here for repairs, and I removed the front deck, I found that the
firewall was separating from the cross member shelf.  I am certain that it
was caused by the long trip with the engine on the plane.  I will never move
one again without removing the engine first.

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2009 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Ill
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying
has begun.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC


-Original Message-


Moral of that story: If you are going to trailer an aircraft, fasten the 
tires, not the airframe to the trailer so the spring gear and tires can do 
what they were designed to do.  And use a trailer appropriate for the job. 
You might not shake an engine loose on that one trip to the airport, but how

long will it take after you have been flying a while after some needless 
abuse?



___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Firewall separation, not from normal use.

[Dan Heath]

I suggest that you also remove the engine.  When the Little Beast was
delivered here for repairs, and I removed the front deck, I found that the
firewall was separating from the cross member shelf.  I am certain that it
was caused by the long trip with the engine on the plane.  I will never move
one again without removing the engine first.

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2009 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Ill
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying
has begun.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC


-Original Message-


Moral of that story: If you are going to trailer an aircraft, fasten the 
tires, not the airframe to the trailer so the spring gear and tires can do 
what they were designed to do.  And use a trailer appropriate for the job. 
You might not shake an engine loose on that one trip to the airport, but how

long will it take after you have been flying a while after some needless 
abuse?

KR> Firewall

[Jaco Swanepoel]

Hi Guys,
I have a friend with a KR2 that wants to know how much he can hang on the 
firewall without doing any mods. The KR2 was designed for a 1600 VW and as 
we all know, those years have come and gone. You guys with the bigger and 
heavier engines on the stock KR2, have you made any mods to the firewall?
Regards,
Jaco Swanepoel
KR2S, ZU-DVP
Pretoria
South frica 

KR> Firewall

[GREG FISHER]

I have a friend with a KR2 that wants to know how much he can hang on 

the firewall without doing any mods. 

  One answer would be to minimize the weight carried by the firewall.  If you 
look at the Falco, another airplane with a wood fuselage, the engine mount 
attaches at the very edge of firewall and aluminum angles are used to transfer 
the load to the fuselage sides.  The fuselage sides are beefed up as is done in 
the KR over the main spar. The Falco firewall is a wood frame filled with 
foam—not solid wood like the KR.  If you are able to use a new engine mount to 
accomplish this I think it would be your best bet.  I assume you are talking 
about an engine of reasonable size, not a 180 hp behemoth.   

KR> Firewall

[Dan Heath]

2180 VW no mods. 

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2007 - KR Gathering
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying
has begun.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC
---Original Message---

You guys with the bigger and
heavier engines on the stock KR2, have you made any mods to the firewall?