Re: [lace] judging
Over the years I have entered everything I've made in the local county fair. I wanted to promote entering and to be sure the categories continued in the fairbook. I didn't worry about winning ribbons, etc. I usually got something but not always. At a small fair like ours, we have only one judge who does everything. We feel lucky if she even knows what bobbin lace and needle lace are. We can only hope for basic good work vs poor work judging skills. We know we won't get a trained lace judge. If these judges have a written list of criterium for a particular class, the judges usually read it very carefully so they can do the best possible with something they might not know well. If a list is developed, I'd submit it to my fair and it would most likely be welcomed. Since I became Superintendent, I don't enter (with minor cheers from my lacing friends who don't have to compete with me anymore). I usually recognize every piece entered because I saw it being made. I have been able to alter the classes to fit the lace being made today. To keep small and big from competing, we have 3 sizes of motif/doily classes and 3 widths of edgings. For the beginners, we have a bookmark class. We also have 3-D, hankies, accessories, fans, picture, original design and 'other'. I pick and choose what I put in state fair because the competition is greater. They have a special judge for lace. I expect more critical judging at that level. I got Best in Class this year so will have to enter as a Master for the next 3 years. It's a pretty ribbon but no money award. A suggestion -- If you have ideas for desired classes at your local fair and want to change or increase the existing classes, contact your local fair SOON. Many fair books go to press in January. Alice in Oregon-- cold and frosty - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] RE: Buddy Map
That part wasn't broke (the add requests are processed automatically, that got broke and repaired), and don't confuse me with the Lacefairy who gets the delete request and honours them maually. I'm the developper of the current map, Lori is the owner and moderator. Jo > After reading your mail about messages not getting through to > yu, I have just checked up the map, and see that my message > was received, and that you have corrected my double entry. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Judging Criteria
On Dec 12, 2007, at 23:06, Adele Shaak wrote: We seem to have several judges on the list - I wonder, what would be your thoughts if you were faced with: 1. a superb original artistic vision and fantastic original design, in either a simple lace well made, or a difficult lace not expertly made or 2. A tour de force of technical skill in making a pattern that is available to anybody who has bought the book. Which would you choose? This particular question is not something that comes up frequently, because, usually, there's a separate category for "original design" and "technical proficiency". Our State Fair doesn't have that split (we have beginners versus advanced/professional), so I might run into this problem but never have so far. We do require that the origin of the pattern is given, so I do know which is which (always assuming people are truthful, which is not always the case; when it comes to competitions, the desire to *win* often outweighs simple decency ). I tend to favour originality over technical proficiency myself but not overwhelmingly; it's more of the tie-breaker, when all else is equal... Regarding the question not posed but inherent within the first description: simple but well made versus difficult but not well made, I'd have to go for "well made". Partly, I suppose, because I myself am of the "more ambition than skill (or patience for detail)" kind of lacemaker and consider it a fault. I think, before one submits a piece for judgment by others, one should judge oneself. Assessing oneself as objectively as possible is a skill too and a helpful one. That way of thinking goes against the grain of Polish history, where the Romantic "measure your skills to your goals and not your goals to your skills" (ie it's better to die trying something great than to achieve something small), but I've always been more of a pragmatist than a romantic :) -- Tamara P Duvallhttp://t-n-lace.net/ Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] RE: judging
This is a fascinating thread, and I just have to come out of my burrow to post on this one. The Rocky Mountain Lace Guild decided to run a class last year for our interested members on judging. One of our members conducted it, and we had a couple of 'never judged before' and a couple of 'done it several times'. Those of us who have done it before and have our own system found something new to learn and ponder. Since our Guild supplies Judges to the Colorado State Fair each year (and they love us because we volunteer to do it), we decided that judges should at least have had some training on things to look for and how to score it. Most of us have used a numerical system with a maximum of 10 points for each criteria an item is judged on (8 in all so a max of 80 points). We start with the view that a piece is perfect and deduct from there - dirty lace, tatting that has ends left on knots, sloppy execution all see deductions, along with things like inappropriate thread selection, poor finishing and mouting, etc. Highest number of points gets the highest ribbon awarded - and not necessarily a first place if no entry warrants it. Our Judges also award the State Fair's Best in Show ribbon and our own Guild donated and lace adorned Dorothy Names Memorial Ribbon (to best or 2nd best in show - Judges discretion), and we also try to find outstanding examples of lace in other classes such as Hardanger, or on a dressed doll, and award a few honorable mention ribbons. We have found that sometimes a simpler piece will rate higher than a more complex piece because of higher marks in the execution of technique/s category. It shouldn't always be that a more complex piece will win over a less complicated one. Complexity of design is only a part of the overall package in my view. How well a piece is made is a large part of the picture, and overall presentation is very important too. The last time I judged (and it's open judging at the state fair) my DH was in the audience and told me afterwards that the lady next to him (who didn't know he was related to me) told him that she like how we judged each piece 1 at a time and on it's own merits (methodical), rather than how the quilting judge just seemed to pluck one quilt up from the stack and give it a first because she liked whatever about it (seemingly random, in other words). I thought this was a very nice compliment which reflected well on how our Guild Judges operate. Cheers, Helen, in Denver - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Competitions and judging
Gentle spiders, I'd like to add 2c to the discussion on judging and competitions. The judging criteria are not very important to me; while it's always fun to win a ribbon, and the rufflier the ribbon the more fun, the real reason I enter is to get handmade lace in front of people. How my piece is judged is interesting, but I'm not put off entering by considerations of how it may be judged. It matters more to me that I'm pleased with the lace; if a judge is also impressed, that's all to the good--but a judge who marked me down for some failure would simply be giving me something to think about, and I might or might not decide I agree. I know it can be difficult for some people to be criticized, especially if they don't agree with the criticism, but if lacemakers can set this aside and simply put their lace out to be appreciated by the public, most of whom don't know or care what the judges are looking for, I think the exposure is advantageous for our cause. Just a few days ago, I had a phone call from a friend who had seen a piece of my lace in the fair this fall. She hadn't known I made lace (!), and was tickled to find she knew someone who did (although I did fail to convince her to give it a try--so far.) She said she always goes to check out the lace at the fair because she's so amazed at it. And that's why I enter, regardless of judging and standards. Love, Julie E. in Seattle [EMAIL PROTECTED] weft.wlonk.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Judging Criteria
In a message dated 12/12/2007 11:31:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What may not be challenging for someone who has been making lace for ages may be a massive challenge for a beginner. Unless you know the level the maker is at how can you tell whether it was much of a challenge or not? The one thing that the fair insists on is that the name of the person be hidden, so that you are not influenced by knowing that information. But, I guess what I mean is that, since you are judging many pieces of lace by many people against each other, rather than assessing whether a piece is a personal best for the individual who has made it, how much credit should someone get for choosing a more challenging, in a universal sense, piece of lace. The Dianna Stevens scale includes 10 points for complexity of the piece. So you might pick up some points for complexity while losing some for workmanship. Of course, one variation that has occurred in our contest is that the local group has devised a bunch of special categories, like "best piece for persons making lace for less than a year" so that the same people don't win all the prizes. I think this is an excellent idea. It encourages more people to enter. Devon **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Judging Criteria
What may not be challenging for someone who has been making lace for ages may be a massive challenge for a beginner. Unless you know the level the maker is at how can you tell whether it was much of a challenge or not? As far as someone else mounting the lace, I don't understand the problem. I know if you enter a quilt in a national show there is a category for made by so-and-so and quilted by so-and-so. As long as it is made clear that someone other than the maker did the quilting it is an acceptable standard. Of course, I don't know much about judging as I've only ever entered two items in the county fair many years ago :D [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/12/2007 11:01:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We seem to have several judges on the list - I wonder, what would be your thoughts if you were faced with: 1. a superb original artistic vision and fantastic original design, in either a simple lace well made, or a difficult lace not expertly made or 2. A tour de force of technical skill in making a pattern that is available to anybody who has bought the book. Which would you choose? The one that is hand mounted? :-) Seriously, these are the most difficult things to judge. Do you reward someone who tries something difficult and does not have a perfect result or someone who does something perfect that is not that much of a challenge? Do you reward creativity and individuality? How much? Actually, the point system by Diana Stevens which I tend to rely on, has points awarded for complexity and for Wow factor, also Design Compatibility. It is on-line at _http://www.domesticarts.com/Judging/judginglecture.htm_ (http://www.domesticarts.com/Judging/judginglecture.htm) Devon -- Ruth R. in OH [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Judging Criteria
In a message dated 12/12/2007 11:01:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We seem to have several judges on the list - I wonder, what would be your thoughts if you were faced with: 1. a superb original artistic vision and fantastic original design, in either a simple lace well made, or a difficult lace not expertly made or 2. A tour de force of technical skill in making a pattern that is available to anybody who has bought the book. Which would you choose? The one that is hand mounted? :-) Seriously, these are the most difficult things to judge. Do you reward someone who tries something difficult and does not have a perfect result or someone who does something perfect that is not that much of a challenge? Do you reward creativity and individuality? How much? Actually, the point system by Diana Stevens which I tend to rely on, has points awarded for complexity and for Wow factor, also Design Compatibility. It is on-line at _http://www.domesticarts.com/Judging/judginglecture.htm_ (http://www.domesticarts.com/Judging/judginglecture.htm) Devon **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Judging Criteria
We seem to have several judges on the list - I wonder, what would be your thoughts if you were faced with: 1. a superb original artistic vision and fantastic original design, in either a simple lace well made, or a difficult lace not expertly made or 2. A tour de force of technical skill in making a pattern that is available to anybody who has bought the book. Which would you choose? Adele North Vancouver, BC (west coast of Canada) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Judging criteria
I have always understood that knots in lace -( broken threads) should be taken out of the lace - ie, join the broken thread with a knot, then ease the knot to the side (out of the lace) and continue, then trim the knot away afterwards, and maybe darn in the ends. I never leave a knot in the lace. As for judging - well, I devised my own list of things to look for, and give points out of ten for each thing. I have such things as Overall appearance, Mounting, correct weight threads, degree of difficulty, etc. I look at each piece individually, and award the points, then when the whole lot has been scrutinized, I then, and only then, total up the points. If there is a tie for any of the first 3 places, I go over the laces again, - maybe side by side, and see which is the better one, or if they really are equal. So long as the mounting is neat and appropriate for the lace & fabric, then I don't really mind if it is machine mounted. I must say I prefer hand moounted, - but that is my personal preferred way, and maybe is a hang-over from years ago, when we were told it Had to be Hand- mounted. If the competition rules state it must be "All Hand Made" - then hand mount. I would not accept anyone else doing the mounting for the lacemaker. Most copetitions state that the work must be aall by the entrant, -- so getting it mounted professionally would disqualify it, - most definitely. Regards from Liz in Melbourne, Oz. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Overlapping sewing/Lassen/Whatever
It is preferred to use a size or two smaller thread if it is available in that brand/color. If not, then you use the same thread you used for the lace. It might show just a touch more than a smaller thread would, but it will show much less than a non-matching thread. Alice in Oregon -- making lace with one hand while we wait to see what happens with my broken wrist. More xrays tomorrow. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I am keen to try the lassen method of overlapping > the ending and beginning of a piece. However, as my > preferred thread size ranges from 120/2 to 185/2, I > don't know what I am supposed to use for the lassen > bit. I thought it was supposed to be a much finer > thread than the original but where am I supposed to > get it from? For those of you who do this type of > ending yourself, what do you use for thread? I > can't believe (or perhaps I don't want to, because I > would be so jealous!) that you all have stashes of > really fine thread that you can use. Please do tell > me your secret(s) :-) > > Thanks in advance, > > Helen. > > - > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > containing the line: > unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write > to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Hand or machine- emerging sensibilities?/judging
I'm a judge in Australia and this is a real problem. The piece is judged overall, so mounting is certainly taken into consideration. You can't know in our competitions if something has been mounted by another person unless you are told by the stewards. They should have asked or be informed when the piece was entered in the show or competition. If we are told we ignore the mounting because it is not the work of the entrant. Otherwise we have to judge it as the whole work. Unless it is heirloom sewing where machine work is accepted by most judges, we favour hand mounting over machine mounting. The biggest problem for us in Australia is patchwork quilts where the quilt has been machine quilted. We have trouble when people don't declare they have sent the quilt to a professional for quilting. Some quilters have long arm quilting machines at home now so we have to give the benefit of the doubt and trust people to be honest. When they have declared it to be professionally quilted, we only judge the patchwork. There are sometimes challenges which can be very unpleasant. As for size, I know small pieces against large pieces is hard, but I do dock pieces hard for mistakes. I once had a crochet tablecloth and although there were no mistakes the tension and starting circles weren't as neat as they could be. I had to give it a lower mark than other smaller pieces. There was a challenge to it, but it comes back to doing something exactly so each time, and if there is one example or thirty there must be that consistancy. I am a hard judge on lace, because I am not swayed by fine thread or big pieces, but most people who have been judged by me haven't had a problem with it. I am able to speak to competitors after judging most competitions with CWA and actively encourage people to challenge or to ask me to rejudge pieces and give them feedback. I really believe in trying to promote excellence and pushing people to try harder each time in a nice way. --- Rochelle Sutherland & Lachlan (9 yrs), Duncan (8 yrs) and Iain (6 yrs) www.houseofhadrian.com.au > And in a competition on the continent, would this possibility be > taken into account, or do the rules state the lace must be finished by > the > lacemaker. I can't answer this question but it is an interestin one and I will ask other people here. Make the switch to the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now. www.yahoo7.com.au/worldsbestemail - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Overlapping sewing/Lassen/Whatever
I am keen to try the lassen method of overlapping the ending and beginning of a piece. However, as my preferred thread size ranges from 120/2 to 185/2, I don't know what I am supposed to use for the lassen bit. I thought it was supposed to be a much finer thread than the original but where am I supposed to get it from? For those of you who do this type of ending yourself, what do you use for thread? I can't believe (or perhaps I don't want to, because I would be so jealous!) that you all have stashes of really fine thread that you can use. Please do tell me your secret(s) :-) Thanks in advance, Helen. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Bobbin Lace Survey Results
I decided that the end of the survey would be when I finally finished sewing together my lace heart and I did that this afternoon :-) I still hate the knots but I should be able to mask them against the second heart once that is made. They will be interlocked so if I start the second one at the right point (still to be finalised) then the end of that one should also be masked. Anyway, here are the results. I got a total of 47 responses, thank you. Several people mentioned more than one dislike so the numbers below total to rather more than 47. Some of the descriptions are broad. This is for a variety of reasons including the need to maintain some people's privacy. The first three items are the ones I listed originally, and then they go in random order! Winding bobbins = 7 Finishing = 13 Tallies (all types) = 12 Sewings = 6 Look of used bobbins = 1 Torchon fans = 1 Insufficient time = 2 Pricking = 3 Finished look = 3 Removing pins = 3 Replacing pins in pincushion = 3 Mounting = 4 Need to turn pillow = 1 Torchon spiders = 1 Starting = 1 Thread breaking during work = 1 Classes = 1 9 pin edge = 2 False plaits = 1 What a varied group we are! Still, it is reassuring to know that I am not the only out there who dislikes the finishing off bit. I have a question on that but will put it in a separate email ... Thank you again to those who participated. Helen (in an overcast Vancouver, BC on the west coast of mainland Canada) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Old lace
Hi Jeanette and other spiders, I am a new lace maker (tatting for 18 months and bobbin lace for 14 months). I have been "lurking" on this list for a little while and felt it time to make a contribution. Jeanette wrote: "I am really enjoying the thread on competitions and judging and often wonder why we need competitions. Do they not stem from the time where a woman's value was measured by her competence in the home What alternatives are there to reward people for exceptional handwork?" I recently entered work in our regional agricultural show in the craft section. I believe these competitions are important to keep the crafts alive - show off our work in public, increase the diminishing numbers of entries and encourage others to participate - however, I also feel that by entering such competitions I am challenged to produce my best work. I am able to learn from any judges comments made, which will improve my lace making skills in future and I am constantly on the lookout for lace patterns and techniques that I might not otherwise attempt. These are the same reasons I submitted my Tatting Stage 1 proficiency work early this year, and have begun work on my Stage 2. (Torchon and braids next I hope!!). This is a fabulous way to gain recognition for achievements (The response from our local group has been overwhelming!!) Just my humble opinion from Sunny Tasmania, Australia. Laura Forrester Jeanette Fischer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This morning we had a meeting of our small lace group. A lady had heard about us and asked if she could join us for a meeting as she has lace that she would like us to see and identify. Now you must realise that lace collectors are even rarer than lacemakers in South Africa and we were expecting the usual machine lace and tatting. So this lady pulls out a plastic flip file and says she keeps her lace in there and she has been collecting on overseas trips since 1987. The first piece to come out is a piece of Brussels lace with the provenance of ''made in 1750" Everybody just shrieked "Get the lace out of the plastic"!!! Jeri Ames I know you hair is standing on end! This lady has them all - Gros Point, Reticella, Binche, Honiton - they are all there in their plastic sleeves and the one finer and more unique than the other! She wanted to know if she could just use ordinary detergent to wash them and what shall she mount them on to frame them! She did say that she thought they were rare as she had paid quite a sum for some of them. She does not sew or do any handwork of any kind as she is left-handed and was forced at school to be right handed. She also had a set of files of the different types of lace and how to identify them that she had bought on a previous trip. Thank you for the kind remarks re the value of my work. Maybe donating lace for a raffle needs a re-think but then Bev has had a very pleasant experience. Jeanette Fischer, Western Cape, South Africa. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Judging criteria
This thread had been so fascinating that I'm prompted to add a couple of thoughts. Here in Melbourne we have difficulty in getting lacemakers to enter local shows and competitions, some have had bad experiences with judging, others are just very protective of their own lace and don't trust the show organisers with their precious pieces. We have the same problem as the US - not very many "qualified" judges. In some competitions where there are very few entries, laces have to be judged against laces of a different type. The class desciption may simply be "Bobbin Lace". I have judged lace on a few occasions now and as one who is fairly new to judging I would love to know - how do other people go about it? I have come across the same problem Devon mentioned, where using a system where points are docked for mistakes, a small simple piece, worked perfectly can score higher than a complicated piece that has a few mistakes. No provision being made for a the fact that in the longer working time there is far more opportunity for mistakes to occur. I think published judging criteria is a great idea that would help the judges and could encourage more entries. Several of the Lace Guilds and other groups have their own set of proficiency tests where a lacemaker can strive for "perfection" in the traditional laces. I feel that lace competitions should be viewed slightly differently to the proficiency tests, particulaly those competitions run as part of public shows. This is the place for us to show off our lace to its best advantage, to be creative and innovative and not worry too much about "traditional" methods of mounting etc. Regards Annette in Melbourne, Australia. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] my Christmas card to lacemakers
Hi everyone I have just posted a pattern for a Christmas bookmark at my blog http://looonglace.blogspot.com/ and it has been a looong time since I've put up a new post! I hope someone would like to make it. Season's Greetings from my lace pillow to yours. -- Bev (near Sooke, BC on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] judging criteria
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 3:31 PM > To: lace@arachne.com > Subject: [lace] judging criteria > > In the US, of course, we have so few lacemakers, and so few judges, > and > apparently, no set standards that we all agree upon. It is a problem. Something for IOLI to consider? Or at least a possible for some enterprising local lace chapters? Think I'll look into this, it sounds very interesting. Carolyn - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Buddy map: another bug solved
Sorry folks, by solving the IE-mailto bug, I destroyed adding new entries. It should be solved again. I hope I didn't overlook something else again. Jo - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] judging criteria
I am really enjoying the thread on competitions and judging and often > wonder > why we need competitions. Do they not stem from the time where a > woman's > value was measured by her competence in the home What alternatives > are > there to reward people for exceptional handwork? Competitions are hardly unique to women. Our state fairs seem to be set up to reward producing a good animal. In New Jersey they even judge hamsters. (Unfortunately, I hadn't realized this and didn't enter mine.) Dogs and horses are regularly shown and judged and I think that there are well-known and previously announced criteria for that. In the US, the Miss America pageant judges women, but not by the quality of their homemaking skills. The Olympics judges athletes. Lacewise, the competitions of the mid 19th century are thought to have encouraged excellence in the craft and many spectacular pieces were produced, usually by hand-made lace industries, also by machine industries, that would otherwise never have been produced, thus raising the standard of lacemaking all over Europe and bringing attention and prestige to lace. In the US, of course, we have so few lacemakers, and so few judges, and apparently, no set standards that we all agree upon. It is a problem. Devon **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Christmas card
Jeanette Fischer sent me a lovely card with a lace poinsettia on the front. It will last longer than the poor plant I have purchased which my husband says I will kill in very short order as I have black thumbs! I managed to kill a mother-in-laws tongue - took a few years of neglect but I managed it! The card will sit in pride of place amongst the hand made cards on my bureau. Thank you Jeanette. Lynne Baldock, North Herts, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Binche 'The Tournament'
Catherine, thank you for your kind words, and here, as requested, some more information. The foremost teacher of Binche, Anne-Marie Verbeke Billiet, has re-constructed many old pieces of Binche which were held in the lace museums in Brugge. The Tournament is the most challenging piece in her 'Syllabus III' and an original is in the collection of the Kantcentrum. 'The design represents a medieval tournament taking place in Brugge... with the famous Belfry and the church towers. There are knights on rearing horses, coats of arms, and a crown along the outer border' She points out that the pairs are taken out, and added, within the continuous meandering trail, which aids the change of direction of the work. Because there are so many features...linen, half stitch, tallies, large and small snowflakes... this is a 'Point-de-Fee' lace. Provided you have a sufficiently large pillow ( mostly to keep the bobbins stacked out of the way) this was a joy to work - I did miss it once finished. Hope you find this interesting, Milada in a chilly Somerset actually, its my birthday - so we had a punctured tyre on the way back from a lunch out - but my parcel of books from Barbara Fay was here - hooray! - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Old lace
> I am really enjoying the thread on competitions and judging and often > wonder > why we need competitions. Do they not stem from the time where a > woman's > value was measured by her competence in the home What alternatives > are > there to reward people for exceptional handwork? Jeanette, Your lace meeting certainly sounds as if it was interesting! One value to the competitions is that it is an invaluable opportunity to expose the public to the fact that lacemaking is alive and well. We have a chance to try to interest people in taking up the hobby/craft/art. I would hate to see these competitions disappear, but since I see every year a smaller group of entries, I fear that will someday happen. I enter (force myself to enter) each year in our regional competition. I must admit that sometimes I feel that the sum total of judging is contained in the quality of one's picots (can you tell that I have picot challenges?). I join the others on this list who think it would be very helpful to have the judging criteria published -- not only would this help one to determine whether or not to enter, but more importantly, it would help to interpret the judges' results. And although I can certainly see the points made by various people for not revealing the identity of judges, I for one think it is valuable to know who judges our work. Frankly, I judge the judge. If I can't know the judge's name, at least I would like to know his/her qualifications as a judge. I have on occasion made historically-accurate reproductions of laces, going back to the 17th century. Of course, some techniques that are used in these laces are not very often, if ever, seen (much less taught) today. One thing I find is that judges are not typically well informed about this kind of lace. In an ideal world, I think we would have judges for different types of lace, just as we have different judges at dog shows for different breeds. That's my two cents worth for today, Regards, Carolyn Carolyn Hastings Stow, MA USA - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Hand or machine- emerging sensibilities?
Hello Jacqui and all, in my opnion there is no must except this must you give yourself. So if you feel so you can let do the mounting by another person. And people which do mounting every day are perhaps better in doing so than oneself. till now I did all the work including mounting myself and I didn't want that somebody did anything for me - but perhaps one day... I try not to say never ever you know. Is it better for the lacemaker themself to mount the lace, even if it's by machine, than to hand it over to a third party. I think that's the decision of each of us alone. Ther isn't a role. And in a competition on the continent, would this possibility be taken into account, or do the rules state the lace must be finished by the lacemaker. I can't answer this question but it is an interestin one and I will ask other people here. In the competition of the DKV there are seldom doilies or handkerchiefs so I guess the question doesn't appear yet. But if the competition is about such things than in my opinion both had to be done by the same person because the whole thing will be judged. If it is only about the lace than other rules will be. I'll tell you if I found out something. Greetings Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] 17th cent.metallic lace recreation at Plimoth, MA
To clarify a few points from Devon's earlier posting November 29, about the lace project at Plimoth Plantation: I think that lunch is included, but not overnight > accommodation. Lunch is included, and very good at that. Not historical meals, but cooked especially for the volunteers and **not** the usual mass-produced food one might expect in the setting. > I myself am quite interested to see what they manage to put in the kit, > and > to get my hands on some hand produced spangles. Spangles for the kit **are not** handmade. Sorry, but with thousands (literally) for the village blacksmith to produce, they couldn't manage the handmade ones for the kits. They are very nice, however, from Kreinik -- but more like sequins. The number of the handmade ones, BTW, include all the tiny oes that need to be produced for the embroidered part of the jacket. >From the blog, http://www.plimoth.org/embroidery-blog): "The lace in the kits is not the Laton lace from the jacket. The kit lace is shown in the photos here. The kit lace is similar to the Laton lace, and uses many of the same techniques. Each kit will contain: - 110 spangles - 24 yards of 90% silver 9 grm tambour - 12 yards of gilt 9 grm tambour - needle to thread spangles - complete instructions, color diagrams, and pricking for lace - Photograph of finished lace The materials included are enough to complete the sample (about 6 inches in length and 1-1/4" in width) and a second full sample for the lace maker to keep. The cost of each kit is $40.00 plus $5 shipping, which includes a $20 tax-deductible donation, which will directly support the jacket project. To order a kit, please call Kathy at 508-746-1622 X 8114 or email at [EMAIL PROTECTED]" The big worry right now is the difficulty in procuring the stock for the handmade spangles -- no chance of starting the lace until the spangles are in hand. The embroidery directions are very > clear, it > seems to me, and there is a CD, No CD for the lace, I'm afraid. I hope that the other written materials, especially my directions, do credit to the reputation that Plimoth has now as a result of the wonderful embroidery directions. Those directions are published-book-quality. > > I have put my name on the list of those to be notified when the kit is > available. It sounds like a fun project, and frankly, in the US, how > often does > the opportunity arise to recreate something from the 1620's? Not very often. I'm told that the kits will go out around the first of the year. The plans were to make up an initial 25 kits to judge interest, and I've heard that there are already 25 names on the list. Not including my own, which I need to add. If anyone has any further questions, or if you'd like to be put on the list to get the kits, you can contact the museum at [EMAIL PROTECTED] And of course I'll be happy to try to answer questions that you might have. Best, Carolyn - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Old lace
This morning we had a meeting of our small lace group. A lady had heard about us and asked if she could join us for a meeting as she has lace that she would like us to see and identify. Now you must realise that lace collectors are even rarer than lacemakers in South Africa and we were expecting the usual machine lace and tatting. So this lady pulls out a plastic flip file and says she keeps her lace in there and she has been collecting on overseas trips since 1987. The first piece to come out is a piece of Brussels lace with the provenance of ''made in 1750" Everybody just shrieked "Get the lace out of the plastic"!!! Jeri Ames I know you hair is standing on end! This lady has them all - Gros Point, Reticella, Binche, Honiton - they are all there in their plastic sleeves and the one finer and more unique than the other! She wanted to know if she could just use ordinary detergent to wash them and what shall she mount them on to frame them! She did say that she thought they were rare as she had paid quite a sum for some of them. She does not sew or do any handwork of any kind as she is left-handed and was forced at school to be right handed. She also had a set of files of the different types of lace and how to identify them that she had bought on a previous trip. I am really enjoying the thread on competitions and judging and often wonder why we need competitions. Do they not stem from the time where a woman's value was measured by her competence in the home What alternatives are there to reward people for exceptional handwork? Thank you for the kind remarks re the value of my work. Maybe donating lace for a raffle needs a re-think but then Bev has had a very pleasant experience. Jeanette Fischer, Western Cape, South Africa. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Hand or machine- emerging sensibilities?
As I understand it, the people who have been joining and mounting lace professionally (and for such reasonable rates) are getting older and less able to do the fine work. Unless others learn to do this, we may find ourselves with no one to do it for us - yet another reason to learn to do the joining and mounting ourselves. Clay -- Clay Blackwell Lynchburg, VA USA -- Original message -- From: Aurelia Loveman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I'm with you, Clay. After reading everybody's thoughts and climbing > in and out of everybody's shoes, and sympathizing absolutely with > everybody's opinion in turn, I think you've got it, Clay! -- > Aurelia - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Hand or machine- emerging sensibilities?
I love what has been said by Clay about "finish"... In a little self published booklet(1984), "Laces for a Lady" (which is one of my most prized books), the compiler, Fiona Birchall quotes from the "Complete Book of Baskets & Basketry" by Doreen Wright, in which the author states, "Craftsmanship is knowing how to do something, refusing to do it less well than one can, knowing one's material and giving to everything made what may be called finish. Finish gives an inevitability to any piece of craftwork whether pot, basket, leather bag, knitted sock, piece of embroidery or papering a room. What is finish? It is the difference between the handmade and the homemade, clean endings and beginnings, the beauty of order which is only achieved by competence, by craftsmanship. Those who cannot see it have not achieved it." This quote has been my personal "challenge" to myself in regards to my own lacemaking. I do intend to achieve "finish" by hand one day :) someday... I also agree that it is a personal choice. I have a friend who does french hand sewing techniques by machine. Her work is beautiful to me. Remember once lacemakers had to come to terms with using machine spun threads, but hand finishing is not something that we will ever be forced to give up. Debbie in Florida - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Judging criteria
This is a good solution. It does create a situation where the person who mounts a piece of lace is taking additional risk. It is comparable to the situation that I faced when taking the driving exam in my teens. One of the incentives to use the driving instructor's car was that it was an automatic and you would not be judged on "clutch control" which you would be if you took the test on a manual car. Thus it was considered madness to take the test on a manual car even though that was the kind of car my parents had, and that I would be driving. Of course, no system is going to be perfect. Devon **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Judging criteria
At 11:06 AM -0500 12/12/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The point system that I usually use, would relegate the amount of points that could be subtracted for knots to a small portion, which is the strength of the point system. But a failing of the point system is that, for instance, in allocating points for mounting, some things don't require mounting, so do you add all the points to the unmounted piece, or subtract them from the total? How do you neutralize? Even within the point system, there is a category for "overall visual impact" which puts the judge in the position of "grossing up" the points of something they just really like, regardless of the more objective criteria. If you have unequal total point values being compared, you could convert the final grade to a percentage value. That is, if one piece can have a maximum of 100 points (some of which are from mounting criteria) and scores 87, then its final value is 87%. Another piece in the same category that isn't mounted might have a maximum point value of 90, and receive 80 points -- the final percentage for this piece would be 89%, so it would have a higher final score in terms of percentages. -- Mary, in Baltimore, MD [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] TCC closure and the Gazette
Many thanks to Bev for her item in the Canadian Lacemaker Gazette's Winter Supplement (which arrived today) about the threatened closure of the Textile Conservation Centre in Southampton. Anyone with UK citizenship can sign the Downing Street petition. See my earlier posts in the archives or contact me for more details if you missed all this when I posted a few weeks ago. Jacquie in Lincolnshire - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Christmas card exchange.
Today I received my Christmas card from Lynne Cumming in England and what a lovely surprise it was! I hope that all of you will be able to see it once the website with the cards is up and running. A few days ago I had a look again at last year's cards and they certainly are impressive and inspiring. Jeanette Fischer, Western Cape, South Africa. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Judging criteria
In a message dated 12/12/2007 10:27:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now, weaver's knots are traditional, and, yeah, hand-made, too; I've seen the fan, and you have to really hunt around to find a knot, so they're nearly invisible as well. What was the problem? Who knows, really? This judge had clearly been taught/ decided that knots were somehow sloppy workmanship, so sloppy that they outweighed just about every other consideration displayed in that contest's entries. And there was no way of knowing ahead of time that this tiny technique would weigh so heavily. It really makes you wonder. And maybe not try again (although my friend figured all this out and entered -- and won -- frequently after that). Well, here is another problem with America... In certain traditions of lace, ie. Tonder, making knots is traditional. We have some old Tonder in the museum, and there are definitely knots in it. However, in other lace traditions, one would run a thread along, instead. So, in the US, at least, we are comparing apples and oranges, a lot. The point system that I usually use, would relegate the amount of points that could be subtracted for knots to a small portion, which is the strength of the point system. But a failing of the point system is that, for instance, in allocating points for mounting, some things don't require mounting, so do you add all the points to the unmounted piece, or subtract them from the total? How do you neutralize? Even within the point system, there is a category for "overall visual impact" which puts the judge in the position of "grossing up" the points of something they just really like, regardless of the more objective criteria. Sometimes, too, you may have a local teacher who feels very strongly about something, and the entrants are all following her instructional rules, but the judge, while recognizing that the entrant has absorbed the rules of the local teacher very well, may not think the local teacher's opinion is correct. Do you accord the highest credit to the student who has best followed the local teacher's rules, thus making them your own criteria, even when you disagree? Does one run the risk of making the local entrants neurotic and depressed by according more credit to those entrants who have taken classes outside the local area who have learned different, and in your opinion, better ways of doing things? Devon **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] judging lace.
Good morning Lacemakers. Hmm, I think I agree with Aurelia. Isn't this why you prefer to know who is judging the lace contest? Sometimes, we find a judge with preferences that agree with ours, and then we would enter. If the judge is someone we know disagrees with our preferences then we would not enter. And on the other side, why the contest organizers do not announce who is judging, so entrants will not have a chance to decide whether to enter or not based on who is judging. Personal preference - or judges opinion often supercede everything else in a contest. Just My Opinion. Susie Johnson Morris Illinois - Original Message - From: Aurelia Loveman To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: lace@arachne.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [lace] Hand or machine- emerging sensibilities? I'm with you, Clay. After reading everybody's thoughts and climbing in and out of everybody's shoes, and sympathizing absolutely with everybody's opinion in turn, I think you've got it, Clay! -- Aurelia >I've judged at our State Fair, and in that venue there is no >requirement for things to be hand finished. And yes, it is sad to >see a beautiful piece of lace badly mounted (regardless of *how* >it's mounted). Most competitions are specific in their requirements, >and this is the time to consider whether or not to use hand >finishing. I still say that it is up to the individual, and have no >quarrel with Devon's point. > >On the other hand, I am personally committed to learning to attach >lace by hand (that's my obsessive choice. ;)). It seems absurd to >have spent ten years learning to make exquisite lace as it was made >in the 17th - 18th centuries, and then blow off the finishing. It >takes me the better part of a year to complete Binche lace for a >handkerchief, and to spend a week getting the mounting right is not >too much to expect. I'm not worried about the problem of picking it >apart again after the handkerchief disentegrates - I don't plan to >use this on a daily basis!! Part of the appeal to me is to hold the >finished object and know that 300 - 400 years ago, someone once held >a handkerchief very much like this and it was considered as valuable >as a gem. The thread and the handkerchief fabric aren't linen >because we can't get fine linen today. But otherwise, it is a >faithful reproduction. > >Clay > > > > > - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Hand or machine- emerging sensibilities?
I'm with you, Clay. After reading everybody's thoughts and climbing in and out of everybody's shoes, and sympathizing absolutely with everybody's opinion in turn, I think you've got it, Clay! -- Aurelia I've judged at our State Fair, and in that venue there is no requirement for things to be hand finished. And yes, it is sad to see a beautiful piece of lace badly mounted (regardless of *how* it's mounted). Most competitions are specific in their requirements, and this is the time to consider whether or not to use hand finishing. I still say that it is up to the individual, and have no quarrel with Devon's point. On the other hand, I am personally committed to learning to attach lace by hand (that's my obsessive choice. ;)). It seems absurd to have spent ten years learning to make exquisite lace as it was made in the 17th - 18th centuries, and then blow off the finishing. It takes me the better part of a year to complete Binche lace for a handkerchief, and to spend a week getting the mounting right is not too much to expect. I'm not worried about the problem of picking it apart again after the handkerchief disentegrates - I don't plan to use this on a daily basis!! Part of the appeal to me is to hold the finished object and know that 300 - 400 years ago, someone once held a handkerchief very much like this and it was considered as valuable as a gem. The thread and the handkerchief fabric aren't linen because we can't get fine linen today. But otherwise, it is a faithful reproduction. Clay - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Judging criteria
Hi, all, and Devon, Devon, you wrote: ... In my experience of judging, I have not been given any kind of guidance by the fair. The previous judge, whom I helped for many years, was a very "seat" of the pants kind of judge, applying "gut feeling" type judgements. I have, in my possession, two different papers written about lace judging and how it should be done, including a point system. Every year, I conscientiously reread them, but they disagree. I don't know that I have ever seen a written out description of exactly how the lace in the IOLI's contest is judged. Is there one? I would think that it would be a tremendous help if those who were being judged knew what the judge was judging them on, ie, they had a copy of the point system to refer to. Of course, it would be helpful to the judge, too. Now that I am reading about how many people don't put things into competition because they think that they will be rejected because of some deficiency that they or their friends perceive, but that might not be on the judge's list of criteria, I wonder if there wouldn't be more entrants if these things were made clearer, and even changed from time to time with "emerging sensibilities". Just an anecdotal fer-instance: Many years ago, a friend of mine entered a beautiful Torchon folding fan into a competition (a state fair, I think). Her fan was not absolute world-class in every way, and she knew it. But it was, hands-down, the best piece of lace there, certainly it had involved the most work. Yet she only received a lesser placing, because she had joined broken threads with knots, and the judge felt that that showed too little knowledge of working techniques. Now, weaver's knots are traditional, and, yeah, hand-made, too; I've seen the fan, and you have to really hunt around to find a knot, so they're nearly invisible as well. What was the problem? Who knows, really? This judge had clearly been taught/ decided that knots were somehow sloppy workmanship, so sloppy that they outweighed just about every other consideration displayed in that contest's entries. And there was no way of knowing ahead of time that this tiny technique would weigh so heavily. It really makes you wonder. And maybe not try again (although my friend figured all this out and entered -- and won -- frequently after that). Maybe the big national and international lace guilds could write up model sets of rules and standards, and make them known to other/any organizations looking to sponsor lace competitions, especially non-lace groups. Though, really, there are no easy answers to this one. Good luck in your hunt for exemplars! Beth - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] judging criteria
Beth writes: <> This is an extremely good point. In my experience of judging, I have not been given any kind of guidance by the fair. The previous judge, whom I helped for many years, was a very "seat" of the pants kind of judge, applying "gut feeling" type judgements. I have, in my possession, two different papers written about lace judging and how it should be done, including a point system. Every year, I conscientiously reread them, but they disagree. I don't know that I have ever seen a written out description of exactly how the lace in the IOLI's contest is judged. Is there one? I would think that it would be a tremendous help if those who were being judged knew what the judge was judging them on, ie, they had a copy of the point system to refer to. Of course, it would be helpful to the judge, too. Now that I am reading about how many people don't put things into competition because they think that they will be rejected because of some deficiency that they or their friends perceive, but that might not be on the judge's list of criteria, I wonder if there wouldn't be more entrants if these things were made clearer, and even changed from time to time with "emerging sensibilities". In the US, the system is First, Second and Third place, ie. things are judged against other entrants. In Europe, I understand, there can be many Firsts and Seconds, because the items are judged against an absolute standard. This has me thinking that criteria may be better defined for lace judging, outside the US. One problem I always encounter is, how do you compare a small perfect piece with a larger, imperfect piece. The person making the larger piece has more opportunities to make mistakes, so you are either inadvertently, throwing a benefit to making small pieces, or you are factoring in a size component where big pieces get more leniency in workmanship. Are there any other judges on the list? Do you have a system for judging? If you have been provided with a set of criteria by a fair or other organization, could you send it to me? Devon **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Hand or machine- emerging sensibilities?
Even in Bruges today, the lacemakers don't (mostly) mount their own lace. There are still specialist needlepersons who do it for them. Some of my students try to make sure their Flanders /Binche lace is finished to coincide with a trip, so the overlap join and mounting task can be handed over to the experts. Now, there's a conumdrum for you. Is it better for the lacemaker themself to mount the lace, even if it's by machine, than to hand it over to a third party. And in a competition on the continent, would this possibility be taken into account, or do the rules state the lace must be finished by the lacemaker. Jacquie in Lincolshire. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Hand or machine- emerging sensibilities?
I know - my plan (if I ever start the piece of Binche I dream of doing) is to get it finished in Bruges. And they don't even charge a fortune for overlapping and mounting. I have no great desire to spend the time sewing - and practising to get a good result - when I can pay someone else to do it for me in an expert fashion and leave me the time free to make lace. yes, I wondered what the rules on finishing would be in a competition Sue - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [lace] Hand or machine- emerging sensibilities? Even in Bruges today, the lacemakers don't (mostly) mount their own lace. There are still specialist needlepersons who do it for them. Some of my students try to make sure their Flanders /Binche lace is finished to coincide with a trip, so the overlap join and mounting task can be handed over to the experts. Now, there's a conumdrum for you. Is it better for the lacemaker themself to mount the lace, even if it's by machine, than to hand it over to a third party. And in a competition on the continent, would this possibility be taken into account, or do the rules state the lace must be finished by the lacemaker. Jacquie in Lincolshire. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Hand or machine- emerging sensibilities?
On the other hand, I am personally committed to learning to attach lace by hand (that's my obsessive choice. ;)). It seems absurd to have spent ten years learning to make exquisite lace as it was made in the 17th - 18th centuries, and then blow off the finishing. It takes me the better part of a year to complete Binche lace for a handkerchief, and to spend a week getting the mounting right is not too much to expect. > Clay I suspect that in the 17th - 18th centuries the lace was mounted on the handkerchief / garment by someone completely different from the lacemaker. We know that lace was bought by the yard by lace dealers and each step of the needle-lace process was undertaken by a different person. We are now trying to learn every step in the process, whereas then people worked with their strongest skills to earn as much money as they could (which wasn't much). Sue Babbs - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Hand or machine- emerging sensibilities?
I've judged at our State Fair, and in that venue there is no requirement for things to be hand finished. And yes, it is sad to see a beautiful piece of lace badly mounted (regardless of *how* it's mounted). Most competitions are specific in their requirements, and this is the time to consider whether or not to use hand finishing. I still say that it is up to the individual, and have no quarrel with Devon's point. On the other hand, I am personally committed to learning to attach lace by hand (that's my obsessive choice. ;)). It seems absurd to have spent ten years learning to make exquisite lace as it was made in the 17th - 18th centuries, and then blow off the finishing. It takes me the better part of a year to complete Binche lace for a handkerchief, and to spend a week getting the mounting right is not too much to expect. I'm not worried about the problem of picking it apart again after the handkerchief disentegrates - I don't plan to use this on a daily basis!! Part of the appeal to me is to hold the finished object and know that 300 - 400 years ago, someone once held a handkerchief very much like this and it was considered as valuable as a gem. The thread and the handkerchief fabric aren't linen because we can't get fine linen today. But otherwise, it is a faithful reproduction. Clay -- Clay Blackwell Lynchburg, VA USA -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Clay speaks of doing laborious hand mounting only of things to be judged. > > Speaking from the perspective of a person who has been called in to judge > lace on occasion, I find the hand-finishing issue troubling. Some pieces are > very beautifully hand finished, representing a huge amount of time spent on > that > aspect. These pieces don't always have the best lace on them. Sometimes > there is a piece that has been nicely machine finished, or even not so nicely > finished, but is a much better piece of lace. What is a judge to do? How much > credit should be accorded on finishing? Even on a point system divided > between > different aspects, a nicely hand finished piece picks up 10 points over one > that is not. But my emerging feeling is that, since judging impacts the > development of the craft, I would like to encourage more and better > lacemaking, > not laborious French sewing. I almost see spending a lot of time on attaching > a > piece of lace to a piece of fabric as something that poses an obstacle to > the greater goal, if we are to survive as a craft, of making more and better > lace. > > At what point does the lace judge say, "this is the 21st century" and what > would have been extremely important in the mid 19th is becoming irrelevant? > Frankly, I am beginning to notice that most of the things I was raised to > believe are important are now irrelevant. > > Devon > proposing a radical concept > > > > **See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) > > - > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: > unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
