Re: [lace] Imperfect lace
Thank you, Alex ;) On 10/29/11, Alex Stillwell wrote: > > Happy lacemaking (with or without mistakes) > -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
[lace] Imperfect lace
Hi Arachnids When I was in a workshop learning Honiton lace from Lauretta Clark I did something looked not quite right. I asked if I should take it out and she said 'Can you live with it?'. I took mine out and remade the section. I now use this answer myself, then my students can choose for themselves, if they can live with mistakes in the work it's their lace. After all, we make lace for the enjoyment of making it, not as a penance. Happy lacemaking (with or without mistakes) Alex - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
[lace] Bucks point
Hi Alison Well done, floral Bucks is a big challenge. Happy lacemaking Alex - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] diagrams
- Nancy Neff wrote: I am interested in what you all think about the colored diagrams that accompany much published lace. I was struck by the phrase "which is sort of paint by numbers" in a recent post.- I have come across this attitude before. Holly Van Sciver does not use diagrams when she teaches, believing people become too dependent on the diagram instead of coming to understand the lace. If this happens, the student is unable to progress to any other piece unless it, too, has a thread diagram. I think this is probably true for some people. I, however, learn a whole lot more having a diagram than without it. Without the diagram or someone to show me at least one way to work a difficult part, I spend a very long and frustrating time trying to figure it out. I get very discouraged and get little or nothing done. If I am shown, I am perfectly able to generalize from this instance to other, similar situations. I learn at least one way to work the problem and may make "adjustments" to work it other ways as well. The first time I encounter the situation, I may rely heavily on diagrams; the second I work as much as I can remember/understand and refer to the pattern periodically; the third time, I work it more-or-less fine but may refer to something on the pattern; after that I usually don't need the pattern and I will remember the solution for future, similar situations. Robin P. Los Angeles, California, USA robinl...@socal.rr.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Lace classes
I have one more teacher horror story, from a workshop not lessons. One member of my guild is blind from birth, but she makes great lace. A guild member pricks her pattern and she turns it "upside down". The pinholes are bumps on that side and she can tell where each pin goes. The group hired a teacher for a workshop and wrote to her explaining this woman's need--to have the pattern in advance so someone could prick it--and asked the teacher if she had any problem dealing with a blind person learning this kind of lace. The teacher said it was no problem and sent the pattern. The students sat in a circle of tables and the teacher went from student to student around the circle, till she got to the person next to the blind woman. Then she turned and worked her way from student to student back around the other way, till she got to the student next to the blind woman. She kept avoiding having anything to do with this accomplished lacemaker by going back and forth around the rest of the circle. Later in the day she made a loud and pointed comment about how "people should accept their limitations". Needless to say, this teacher has never been invited back to teach. Robin P. Los Angeles, California, USA robinl...@socal.rr.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
RE: [lace] Lace classes
Jo wrote: Lesson learnt by me: _allways_ ask "do you want to live with an imperfect sample"? After a few times you know the attitude.- My teacher always said, "If it was me" She told us if the problem was close enough that we didn't mind going back that far, by all means do it; but if it was farther back than that, declare it an "Act of God" and go on. And each of us decided for ourselves how far was too far. I use that one on students. Another thing I do is offer to take it out--it's always easier (emotionally) to take out someone else's mistake than your own and I can do it a lot faster than the student. That way they can experience doing that part right and get the positive feeling of a more perfect result without the frustration of destroying their own work. Robin P. Los Angeles, California, USA robinl...@socal.rr.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
[lace] Re: Lace Classes
In teaching over the decades, I have found that you have to accommodate the learning ability of the student, and that means presenting the same concept, different ways. I believe we covered this more recently, and Liz? gave some pertinent details, but simply stated, some process right brained, and some left. Analogies, metaphors, overview concepts and goals, also help. With mood and temperament, I think some teachers/people forget, that you get more bees with honey, than vinegar. :) That doesn't compensate for people/students who just want something, and want it now, and aren't willing to invest, literally nor figuratively. They wimp and whine and you are supposed to do it for them, or they blame you. I woman without glasses she needs, tells me her vanity may be more important than learning lace. If that is she was she is approaching it, then why not teach it to her like Braille? I feel my knitting, thinking that if (God forbid) I am old and cannot see, at least I can knit by feel, but I digress. I was raised that if it is wrong, you take it all out and start over) and so many balk at that, but it does teach the perseverance needed for hard or long projects. I guess that all of it boils down to personal responsibility on all fronts, and going the extra mile. I have a friend who keeps having stressful things happen in her life, and she threatens a nervous breakdown and fearing that one more thing goes wrong...sure enough, it does. I told her to change it to, "If there is something I am to learn from life, then bring it on!" She gasped, but I noticed that she mustered up her courage and now her life is smooth. My aunt just called to ask how my father was, and she was saying that she is ornery, and she heard that the ornery ones live longest. I laughed and said that that is probably what it really takes in life...a bit of fortitude! And so with lace! (grinning) Best, Susan Reishus - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] diagrams
I learned to make lace in the mid-90's. The syllabus my teacher, Lynn, used to teach lace was put together by Arlene McKinnell and spelled out each cross and twist. It wasn't until the 6th lesson that she brought out the diagrams. That lesson had the piece both spelled out in CT by Arlene, and Lynn's own hand-colored diagram. It was confusing for all of 5 minutes. >From the 6th minute on I preferred the diagrams. One of the things that threw me when I took it up again was the books I had with colored diagrams in them. I'm thinking in particular of the version I have of THE BOBBIN LACE MANUAL by Stott. The diagrams are in red and blue, and I couldn't figure out why the lace wasn't coming out like the picture. The colors in that book don't correspond to the system as we know it know. So it's a good idea to be aware of when the book was published. Tracy at The Lacemaker Shop had a very cool lace sampler piece that you work in color, the color of each section done in the color that the diagrams currently use...i.e. red = CTCT, green=CT, etc. Burns the colors into your brain as you work each section. Peg in chilly Cleveland Hts OH where the fall colors are finally in their glory - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] diagrams
Yes, Lorelei! I've always felt like the diagram was a diagrammatic version of a computer algorithm. Nancy Connecticut > >...Using a diagram is more like using a tutorial that comes with a computer >program, or using the help function that is embedded in the program. ... - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] diagrams. (long)
I've been reading, with interest, the various views on color coded diagrams, and thought I'm add my perspective. There are many laces which can be worked from the pricking alone - assuming you know what the various components are meant to look like. Especially in the smaller pieces which have repeating sections, the lacemaker is usually able to work without a diagram at all, let alone in color. To my knowledge (and I can depend on this list to correct me if I'm wrong!), the Belgian Color Code was developed because of the complexity of the traditional Belgian laces. Originally, lacemakers had worked without diagrams, using their knowledge of the desired effect and their skills with many techniques to achieve the finished lace. In fact, when studying old laces closely, it is not at all uncommon to see variations in the way repeats are worked. People who reconstruct old laces often look at numerous "versions" of a section of lace before deciding how they want to work it. Snowflakes are standard features in Flanders and Binche laces. If every type of snowflake known were drawn in black ink only, there might be several dozen drawings to represent them. However, you need to consider that those pairs in each snowflake might be worked c-t, or maybe c-t-c, or even c-t-c-t. And to add to the confusion, there might be various combinations of these stitches in each snowflake! And furthermore, not all snowflakes are the same in each piece, with different variations appearing side-by-side. I have made this point while talking about snowflakes, but the variations apply to every component of the lace! That is why, in anything but the most basic beginner pieces of Belgian lace, (a term that neatly covers many laces which share numerous techniques, making it difficult to say "Binche", or "Mechlin", for example), the color code is the essential tool for the person reconstructing the lace to convey the necessary information. This past summer at "Lace at Sweet Briar" Anny Noben-Slegers guided a group of experienced Binche lacemakers through the process of designing Binch/Flanders lace. We all were keenly aware of how important the color code is to communicating our intentions about the designs. Now, while working the piece I designed, I'm very grateful that I don't have to depend on my foggy brain to remember what I intended, nor do I have to follow a thousand footnotes. So, when you take your first courses in Binche or Flanders, don't skip learning the color code while you're at it. It will make it a great deal easier as you progress to more complex (and more exciting!) laces. I have still not worked any lace since the beginning of the month when I got sick. But when I finally do have the energy to get back to the pillow, I'll know exactly where I left off because it's clearly marked on the diagram with a "sticky-tab" arrow. Clay Clay Blackwell Lynchburg, VA. USA Nancy Neff wrote: >Fellow Arachnids, >� >I am interested in what you all think about the colored >diagrams that accompany much published lace.� I was struck by the phrase >"which�is sort of paint by numbers" in a recent post.� The full quote is "It >has colored diagrams for the whole thing, which is sort of paint by numbers, >but if you think about what you are doing, and try to figure out why it is >planned that way, you learn a lot."� I agree with everything said�except that >paint-by-numbers reference.� >� >It's not that I don't think it is valuable to >tackle a lace without a diagram. I have done my own diagramming�of lace, for a >relatively simple floral bucks pattern for example, and found it challenging >but do-able.� Also, I have found what I think are errors in diagrams (not just >twists, but in thread paths), or at least places where�I thought there was a >better way to do something.� >� >One�can indeed�learn a lot from following >diagrams--I agree with part of the statement. They are important for those of >us who don't have easy access to a regular teacher and have learned lace >mostly from books with clear diagrams�and published patterns with the >standardized-color�diagrams. >� >Finally, however,�I think the colored diagrams >are�invaluable in lace reconstructions because they document how the original >laces were actually made.� Plus I find�following a colored diagram in a wide >piece of Binche or Old Flanders quite a bit more challenging than I ever found >the one paint-by-number I started.� (I don't remember finishing it, I >think�because I found it boring.)� I think I found the phrase a little >disconcerting because I have had to "retro-lace" more often than I care to >admit because I've made a mistake in following the diagram in more difficult >parts of the Binche I'm working on now. >� >I just wondered what others think of >using colored diagrams in making lace.� Are we "cheating" a little, at least >in modern designs? >� >Nancy >Connecticut, where the snow has started to fall...
Re: [lace] diagrams
I think we are 'cheating' a little. On the other hand, we aren't spending time in the convent learning a lace pattern we will make for the rest of our lives, either. Making yardage, you learn the pattern from the diagram, but after some repeats, the number depending on the complexity, you ignore the diagram. Lacemakers go from one piece to another, and most lacemakers make more than one kind of lace. Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying making lace with a diagram, because then I know exactly what to do at that particular point. And I am learning a new kind of lace, on my own, no teacher. I hate to say this, but it just seems too easy. I'm waiting for the other shoe to fall. Call me crazy. And the diagram, with a possible exception of twists at the edges, is completely accurate, so I'm never confronted with pondering why the diagram isn't working with the pricking. Also, this is a relatively simple piece of lace, where I'm not confronted with multiple motifs, different grounds and the like. One element at a time. I recently took a course where the teacher flat out told us that the goal was to be able to read the pricking. And in the part laces, where the 'pricking' is actually a line drawing, one is constantly making decisions about the number of pairs to use, what stitch to use for light and shade, all that sort of thing. A colored diagram, which instructs pinhole by pinhole just doesn't afford such freedom, or give such responsibility to the lacemaker. Is this good or bad? I don't know. Might be necessary. Certainly is welcome to me as a student of this kind of lace. Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, US, where they've closed the libraries, churches are beginning to close for today. West of us is much more serious. Power outages are occurring. -Original Message- From: Nancy Neff Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 1:56 PM To: Arachne Subject: [lace] diagrams Fellow Arachnids, I am interested in what you all think about the colored diagrams that accompany much published lace. I was struck by the phrase "which is sort of paint by numbers" in a recent post. The full quote is "It has colored diagrams for the whole thing, which is sort of paint by numbers, but if you think about what you are doing, and try to figure out why it is planned that way, you learn a lot." I agree with everything said except that paint-by-numbers reference. It's not that I don't think it is valuable to tackle a lace without a diagram. I have done my own diagramming of lace, for a relatively simple floral bucks pattern for example, and found it challenging but do-able. Also, I have found what I think are errors in diagrams (not just twists, but in thread paths), or at least places where I thought there was a better way to do something. One can indeed learn a lot from following diagrams--I agree with part of the statement. They are important for those of us who don't have easy access to a regular teacher and have learned lace mostly from books with clear diagrams and published patterns with the standardized-color diagrams. Finally, however, I think the colored diagrams are invaluable in lace reconstructions because they document how the original laces were actually made. Plus I find following a colored diagram in a wide piece of Binche or Old Flanders quite a bit more challenging than I ever found the one paint-by-number I started. (I don't remember finishing it, I think because I found it boring.) I think I found the phrase a little disconcerting because I have had to "retro-lace" more often than I care to admit because I've made a mistake in following the diagram in more difficult parts of the Binche I'm working on now. I just wondered what others think of using colored diagrams in making lace. Are we "cheating" a little, at least in modern designs? Nancy Connecticut, where the snow has started to fall... - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003 - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
[lace] Lace class
My lace teacher was a stickler for details - which is good up to a point. However, one day while she was watching me working on my second project (a bookmark), she saw me continue to take pins from the pin cushion rather than from higher up on the piece and she slapped my hands. She said she didn't believe in wasting movements and thought I should have been taking the pins from the finished area of the bookmark. Being a beginner, I felt more comfortable leaving pins in longer to be sure I wouldn't have to unlace any areas. I thought she could have verbalized the point rather than slapping my hands. It didn't hurt my hands, but didn't sit well with me. She also didn't want to explain movements on more complicated pieces that others were working on to beginners because she was afraid it might confuse them. I would think it might help illustrate how things work together. It could also serve as an inspiration instead of a sense of being held back. While I appreciated her willingness to teach, it made me not want to make lace around her so I bought some videos and I'm learning from them rather than from her. When I'm making better lace I'll risk the nit picky monitoring. There is a lot to remember anyway, and I thought some things could wait until I got the basics down. Maybe I feel that way because my dad didn't believe in complementing children because he was afraid it would give them a big head. We got more attention for misbehaving than from doing good. I remember a few times when I showed him things I was working on even as an adult, and his praise was always kind of conditional (you could/should have done it this way instead). It's funny how things we experience as a child affects how we relate to things as an adult. I guess we have to recognize it in order to let go of it! Liz in Missouri where we have a colorful and sunny fall day. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
[lace] diagrams
Nancy I agree with you that diagrams are very useful. I would even say they are essential for learning and working the more complex laces such as Flanders, Binche and Valenciennes. And more, for those of us who usually learn from books instead of live teachers, good diagrams are absolutely essential to advancing one's knowledge. If I ever get to the point with Flanders, Binch and Valenciennes that I can work them without a diagram I will count myself a master lacemaker. And if I ever reach that point, I won't be working other people's patterns or copying antique examples, I will be inventing my own patterns. I don't actually expect to get that far in my lifetime. But there are obviously some few who have arrived at it, and those are the people who are designing new Flanders and Binche patterns and writing books about them. Using a diagram is more like using a tutorial that comes with a computer program, or using the help function that is embedded in the program. It isn't really like "paint by numbers" at all. When I'm explaining something to a student, or helping a friend, I often draw a diagram to explain what I think the lacemaker should do: it is clearer than verbal descriptions and looks more like what is actually on the pillow. a verbal description has to be translated into an image in the student's head before she can follow the instruction. A diagram does the translation work. Lorelei - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] diagrams
From: Nancy Neff <> This is exactly why I believe that pricking out a pattern helps you to understand and gain a feel for the pattern. Marking in the directions, stitches etc also help learn this. It is how I first learnt to deconstruct a pattern (the second way I learnt was to make lace backwards but I'm not going off on that one again. L Kind Regards Liz Baker thelace...@btinternet.com My chronicle of my bobbins can be found at my website: http://thelacebee.weebly.com/ - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] diagrams
Lacemaking is a hobby, the diagrams are useful and in some cases necessary. For some laces, such as Binche, I for one am married to the diagram Sometimes, if convenient, I use the diagram as the pricking! I like it when I don't need a diagram, it is a feeling of freedom but I'd be lost without one for most patterns. It is an interesting challenge to try a pricking without a diagram, nor even a photo of the finished lace - if that was the only way to make a lace, I'd soon give it up ;) On 10/29/11, Nancy Neff wrote: > > I just wondered what others think of > using colored diagrams in making lace. Are we "cheating" a little, at least > in modern designs? > -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
[lace] Sewing with Lace; Opera Costuming by Tiramani
This is for those who would like to sew clothing from lace yardage (machine-made) and those interested in opera costuming. The North American magazine "Threads", Nov. 2011 # 157, has a cover illustration of red lace. I bought it at Barnes & Noble book store, where you can find a chair in-store and read it there. Go to the web site for more information. _www.threadsmagazine.com_ (http://www.threadsmagazine.com) Note that it is possible to order back issues. The 6-page feature article (page 56) is "Lace Edges - six ways to finish this delicate fabric". This may have some sewing tips that you would appreciate. Tells how to feature a scalloped edge, make an edging for an unlined or lined garment, make a ribbon facing for lace, bind the cut edge of lace. Another 6-page article (page 66) is "Behind the Scenes at the Metropolitan Opera - the costume shop prepares troubadours, mermaids, and pharaohs for stardom". The designer for "Anna Bolena", a new opera this season, is Jenny Tiramani. Jenny is the co-author (with Susan North) of the book we raved about this past Summer: "Seventeenth Century Women's Dress Patterns". It is the one with X-rays of a costume on the cover. The magazine has a brief review of the book on page 16. Jenny also was co-author, with Santina Levey, of "Patterns of Fashion 4 - the cut and construction of linen shirts, smocks, neckwear, headwear and accessories for men and women - circa 1540-1660", which was a project to publish Janet Arnold's final research. Don't you just love when so many things "come together"? Regards, Jeri Jeri Ames in Maine USA Lace and Embroidery Resource Center - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Lace classes
From: Lyn Bailey > Thus a lace teacher really should not do things calculated to alienate her students. One of the things that really annoys me is that many people think that they can teach or train people and over the years I have seen some terrible results. I know that George Bernard Shaw (who on every other occasion was an excellent person apart from this one) said that 'those who can do and those who can't teach'. If you have an ability to connect with your student and you can be passionate about your craft then you should help people when they need it and you should teach. So, GBS - Well I can teach, so I do Kind Regards Liz Baker thelace...@btinternet.com My chronicle of my bobbins can be found at my website: http://thelacebee.weebly.com/ - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Lace classes
Maybe I should change that to truly willing pupil. And there are extremes at each end. A stone on one end, and at the other, someone who teaches herself without a book, although I've never heard of such. Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, US, where it's still snowing. -Original Message- >From: Sue Babbs >Sent: Oct 29, 2011 11:47 AM >To: lace@arachne.com >Subject: Re: [lace] Lace classes > >When the pupil won't wear the glasses she needs to see the lace (even though >they have been prescribed for her, and she owns them) and won't practise >between lessons (so that she can remember what the three basic stitches are) >then it is no longer the teacher's fault, however willing the student >declares herself to be!!! > >It was several months with this student, before I discovered that she >couldn't actually see the lace stitches! She drove the other pupils in the >class round the bend, as well as me, and I reluctantly had to suggest to her >that I was not able to teach her and she should leave the class. > >Sue > >sueba...@comcast.net >-Original Message- > >- >To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: >unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to >arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: >http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003 - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Lace classes
I've just read this one out to hubby and his response ' Well, Yeh' This is like the lady I tried to teach to make lace who didn't like spangling (ok you can buy them ready done), didn't like pricking patterns (it does help to understand them but you can buy them on card and prick as you go) and actually didn't like making anything that was simple in order to learn the basic stiches. What she really wanted was to be able to make the pieces I was on when I demonstrated at reenactments. I said yes, she could but when you can't remember how to make a stitch why make your life complicated with a piece on a 24" pillow with 60 pairs or a honiton piece that she couldn't see because when reenacting she didn't have authentic period glasses. So she suggested that when we demonstrated I should set up my pillow and she would sit at it and look like she was making the lace. Then if people asked about it she could tell them what she was doing. (I was very tempted to say 'what you are doing ... oh pretending to make my lace') I was restrained and simply said 'No, that would be dishonest'. We don't speak any more. L Kind Regards Liz Baker thelace...@btinternet.com My chronicle of my bobbins can be found at my website: http://thelacebee.weebly.com/ From: Sue Babbs To: lace@arachne.com Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2011, 16:47 Subject: Re: [lace] Lace classes When the pupil won't wear the glasses she needs to see the lace (even though they have been prescribed for her, and she owns them) and won't practise between lessons (so that she can remember what the three basic stitches are) then it is no longer the teacher's fault, however willing the student declares herself to be!!! It was several months with this student, before I discovered that she couldn't actually see the lace stitches! She drove the other pupils in the class round the bend, as well as me, and I reluctantly had to suggest to her that I was not able to teach her and she should leave the class. Sue sueba...@comcast.net -Original Message- - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003 - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Lace classes
From: Jo >Happened to me with one: it appeared she could not bear at all with undoing. >If I had known I would have fiddled something but even the first time >appeared to be fatal. Lesson learnt by me: _allways_ ask "do you want to >live with an imperfect sample"? After a few times you know the attitude. I was wandering about at the lace day today and a newbie had made a mistake. Instead of asking if she wanted to undo the mistake (it woud have taken about 30 minutes) her teacher /helper just said to carry on 'but it will be a bit out at the shape at the end and won't look right'. I walked away before I got annoyed. I know people hate to undo things but I learnt alot by 'making lace backwards' as by deconstructing something you often have a lightbulb moment where you go 'ah - that's how it goes together'. As hubby is a trainer too, I told him about the incident and the first thing that he said was 'but you learn from making it backwards'. We do not undo in our household we make things backwards and I'm sticking to it. The other thing that hubby said is that, yes, it gets you out of the hole that you are in but in years to come when you look at the piece that you made you want to have done the best that you can and be proud of it. I'm with him on that one. Kind Regards Liz Baker thelace...@btinternet.com My chronicle of my bobbins can be found at my website: http://thelacebee.weebly.com/ - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Lace classes
I was thinking about a lace class that I was in where we had a woman who was an adjunct professor at a local college where she taught Nutrition. One really began to feel for the plight of the adjunct professor after being in a class with her. But one thing that struck me was that she said a lot of students took her course because they had to fulfill a science requirement and their reasoning was, "I have been eating all my life, I'll take nutrition", whereas the class was actually a rather complex class involving chemistry which came as an unpleasant surprise. At one point she remarked that it must be nice to teach a class such as the lace class where people actually want to learn the material. But, then again, when you are teaching a class that is required the students are under a lot of pressure to learn the material which may tend to compensate for any deficiencies in the teacher. Also, they don't necessarily expect to enjoy it. In a lace class the class is a treat for the student, which is in the realm of something they do for fun and relaxation and it competes with other fun activities for the student's time and money. Any adverse experience in the class will make it less fun than a spa treatment. However the student probably wants to come out of the class with more knowledge than when she came in and will hold the teacher responsible if she doesn't learn anything. I have always thought that it must be quite a difficult line to walk when you are the teacher, which mercifully I am not. Not only may the students have different priorities, learning a lot in a short time, or perhaps having a pressure free time away from home, or even just a social night, but the same student may want all these things at different times. You really have to be quite a diplomat to be able to teach a lace class. Devon _lynrbailey@desupernet.net_ (mailto:lynrbai...@desupernet.net) writes: I think there are two things to be noted here. The first is that we all bring baggage to whatever we do, and such baggage does not necessarily show on the outside. Some women, much, much more so than men, tend to take criticism personally, so in criticizing their lace, you are criticizing them, personally. It probably isn't the intent, but there it is, and the damage is done. Teachers need to be aware of this and plan and act accordingly. After all, technically, if the student doesn't progress, it is the fault of the teacher. That can raise arguments, I'm aware, but it remains true. It is the teacher's job to figure out strategies to impart the teacher's knowledge to the pupil. Assuming a willing pupil. The other is that while teachers of a course which is a requirement for a degree or a required class in some way, public school and the like, can get away with riding roughshod over their students, since the students are stuck, and must put up with almost anything, either as a requirement by law, or by the overriding desire to get the degree or diploma so they can work in a given field, that is not the case with lace. Thus a lace teacher really should not do things calculated to alienate her students. Lace is a 'leisure' activity, done for the love of it. If you indulge a martinet attitude, you soon will have no students. I am fortunate not to have had any such teacher, ever, and I can only assume that the vast majority of teachers are of the proper ilk, but still, it bears remembering. It's really only common sense. A teacher who is pleasant and encouraging will have an easier time imparting her knowledge to her students because they will be more receptive. Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, US, where it is snowing. Hard. Expecting up to 4 inches of the stuff. But it will melt tomorrow, as the high will be 40. -Original Message- From: Jo Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 11:08 AM To: 'Maureen Bromley' ; 'Arachne List email' Subject: RE: [lace] Lace classes > Sometimes you have to live with an inperfect sample as long > as the planned piece is perfect. > After all, there is no point in keep undoing a sample > and being put off for ever. > > Maureen I totaly agree. I just had to learn that some people are putt off very very quickly. My patience did not get a second chance. Another one I managed to resque. Out of my knowledge a third lady putt her off with a very critical remark about her work. She prompted that remark by mailing me she would quit. I phoned to learn why, she wisely refused to tell the name of the other person but I could convince her to stay. Her work may not win prizes, but that was no point for me. She loved to do it and put effort in it. So I declared that were two strong reasons for me to also put effort in her. She stayed and slowly but surely progressed :-) Jo - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...
[lace] diagrams
Fellow Arachnids, I am interested in what you all think about the colored diagrams that accompany much published lace. I was struck by the phrase "which is sort of paint by numbers" in a recent post. The full quote is "It has colored diagrams for the whole thing, which is sort of paint by numbers, but if you think about what you are doing, and try to figure out why it is planned that way, you learn a lot." I agree with everything said except that paint-by-numbers reference. It's not that I don't think it is valuable to tackle a lace without a diagram. I have done my own diagramming of lace, for a relatively simple floral bucks pattern for example, and found it challenging but do-able. Also, I have found what I think are errors in diagrams (not just twists, but in thread paths), or at least places where I thought there was a better way to do something. One can indeed learn a lot from following diagrams--I agree with part of the statement. They are important for those of us who don't have easy access to a regular teacher and have learned lace mostly from books with clear diagrams and published patterns with the standardized-color diagrams. Finally, however, I think the colored diagrams are invaluable in lace reconstructions because they document how the original laces were actually made. Plus I find following a colored diagram in a wide piece of Binche or Old Flanders quite a bit more challenging than I ever found the one paint-by-number I started. (I don't remember finishing it, I think because I found it boring.) I think I found the phrase a little disconcerting because I have had to "retro-lace" more often than I care to admit because I've made a mistake in following the diagram in more difficult parts of the Binche I'm working on now. I just wondered what others think of using colored diagrams in making lace. Are we "cheating" a little, at least in modern designs? Nancy Connecticut, where the snow has started to fall... - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Lace classes
We are adult learners. Surely learning lace 'live' is two-way, both teacher and student! I'd hate to think the onus for success/progress is entirely on the teacher! (sometimes one's only teacher appears as a book ;) On 10/29/11, Lyn Bailey wrote: > accordingly. After all, technically, if the student doesn't progress, it is > the fault of the teacher. That can raise arguments, I'm aware, but it > remains true. It is the teacher's job to figure out strategies to impart -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Re: Lace Class
Susan, I don't knit, so don't understand the terms you used with the woman you so kindly helped in the store, but I do understand her frustration. This is how I have felt while trying to do lace, but I have two teachers who have the patience of Job (like you demonstrated to the woman you met in the shop) and I am learning. They both have drawn me detailed diagrams and I am slowly picking up the techniques - it is becoming English & is no longer total "Greek" to me. Right now I am learning how to go around a curve and the diagrams are a wonder in my understanding of how it is done. Sallie in Wyoming On Oct 29, 2011, at 9:08 AM, Susan Reishus wrote: > tallies in reverse: "They had all just watched her struggle!" > > *** > In the yarn > and thread shop yesterday, I saw the same thing.� The woman wanted a project, > but was tired of seaming sweaters (repeated several times), so they turned her > onto socks, but she didn't know how to do the CO (which would be tight), so at > the check out counter, I suggested if she had a larger needle, she CO with > that.� She was shocked.� Then asked me questions later at the door, and I said > if you are sick of seaming sweaters, just knit them in the round on > circulars...again, shocked.� It went on from there (3 ndl BO at shoulders, > pick up the sleeves, etc.) and she kept saying, "Why didn't the staff here > tell me any of this, I have asked over and over for years!"� They would have > had a loyal customer. > > I am not sure if it is not paying attention, not > caring, laziness, or probably that they don't get there are many ways to > execute a task, but I doubt that the staff was doing things the way this woman > had learned, probably 60 years ago.� Whether it is math or lace making, there > is more than one way (and surely many perspectives for the brain) to grasp the > concept/s.� > > > Best, > Susan Reishus > > - > To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: > unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to > arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: > http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003 - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Lace classes
When the pupil won't wear the glasses she needs to see the lace (even though they have been prescribed for her, and she owns them) and won't practise between lessons (so that she can remember what the three basic stitches are) then it is no longer the teacher's fault, however willing the student declares herself to be!!! It was several months with this student, before I discovered that she couldn't actually see the lace stitches! She drove the other pupils in the class round the bend, as well as me, and I reluctantly had to suggest to her that I was not able to teach her and she should leave the class. Sue sueba...@comcast.net -Original Message- - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Lace classes
I think there are two things to be noted here. The first is that we all bring baggage to whatever we do, and such baggage does not necessarily show on the outside. Some women, much, much more so than men, tend to take criticism personally, so in criticizing their lace, you are criticizing them, personally. It probably isn't the intent, but there it is, and the damage is done. Teachers need to be aware of this and plan and act accordingly. After all, technically, if the student doesn't progress, it is the fault of the teacher. That can raise arguments, I'm aware, but it remains true. It is the teacher's job to figure out strategies to impart the teacher's knowledge to the pupil. Assuming a willing pupil. The other is that while teachers of a course which is a requirement for a degree or a required class in some way, public school and the like, can get away with riding roughshod over their students, since the students are stuck, and must put up with almost anything, either as a requirement by law, or by the overriding desire to get the degree or diploma so they can work in a given field, that is not the case with lace. Thus a lace teacher really should not do things calculated to alienate her students. Lace is a 'leisure' activity, done for the love of it. If you indulge a martinet attitude, you soon will have no students. I am fortunate not to have had any such teacher, ever, and I can only assume that the vast majority of teachers are of the proper ilk, but still, it bears remembering. It's really only common sense. A teacher who is pleasant and encouraging will have an easier time imparting her knowledge to her students because they will be more receptive. Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, US, where it is snowing. Hard. Expecting up to 4 inches of the stuff. But it will melt tomorrow, as the high will be 40. -Original Message- From: Jo Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 11:08 AM To: 'Maureen Bromley' ; 'Arachne List email' Subject: RE: [lace] Lace classes Sometimes you have to live with an inperfect sample as long as the planned piece is perfect. After all, there is no point in keep undoing a sample and being put off for ever. Maureen I totaly agree. I just had to learn that some people are putt off very very quickly. My patience did not get a second chance. Another one I managed to resque. Out of my knowledge a third lady putt her off with a very critical remark about her work. She prompted that remark by mailing me she would quit. I phoned to learn why, she wisely refused to tell the name of the other person but I could convince her to stay. Her work may not win prizes, but that was no point for me. She loved to do it and put effort in it. So I declared that were two strong reasons for me to also put effort in her. She stayed and slowly but surely progressed :-) Jo - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003 - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
[lace] Re: Lace Class
tallies in reverse: "They had all just watched her struggle!" *** In the yarn and thread shop yesterday, I saw the same thing. The woman wanted a project, but was tired of seaming sweaters (repeated several times), so they turned her onto socks, but she didn't know how to do the CO (which would be tight), so at the check out counter, I suggested if she had a larger needle, she CO with that. She was shocked. Then asked me questions later at the door, and I said if you are sick of seaming sweaters, just knit them in the round on circulars...again, shocked. It went on from there (3 ndl BO at shoulders, pick up the sleeves, etc.) and she kept saying, "Why didn't the staff here tell me any of this, I have asked over and over for years!" They would have had a loyal customer. I am not sure if it is not paying attention, not caring, laziness, or probably that they don't get there are many ways to execute a task, but I doubt that the staff was doing things the way this woman had learned, probably 60 years ago. Whether it is math or lace making, there is more than one way (and surely many perspectives for the brain) to grasp the concept/s. Best, Susan Reishus - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
RE: [lace] Lace classes
> Sometimes you have to live with an inperfect sample as long > as the planned piece is perfect. > After all, there is no point in keep undoing a sample > and being put off for ever. > > Maureen I totaly agree. I just had to learn that some people are putt off very very quickly. My patience did not get a second chance. Another one I managed to resque. Out of my knowledge a third lady putt her off with a very critical remark about her work. She prompted that remark by mailing me she would quit. I phoned to learn why, she wisely refused to tell the name of the other person but I could convince her to stay. Her work may not win prizes, but that was no point for me. She loved to do it and put effort in it. So I declared that were two strong reasons for me to also put effort in her. She stayed and slowly but surely progressed :-) Jo - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
RE: [lace] Lace classes
Wow! After reading these horror stories, I feel doubly blessed to have had such a good teacher. There were supposed to be two of us in the class, but the other woman dropped out due to having to work. So I got the benefit of having a one-on-one experience. My teacher, Lynn Swedenborg, was in the middle of chemo treatments, and didn't always feel good, but she was always patient. Sad thing is she died of uterine cancer shortly after I finished my last lesson. It amazed me how, after not working on lace for over 10 years, I still retained most of what she taught me. Peg in Cleveland Hts, OH, where the birds are having a party in the barberry bushes outside the window. They're so funny. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] what are you doing...
Last Thursday I finished the Isis Heart I started in Ithaca. GEEZ!!! Are the mistakes ever glaring. But it was a VERY good learning piece. Thanks, Jacquie! Doodling while waiting for Beloved to get off work yesterday I came up with a tape lace heart that spirals in on itself. Thought it would be perfect for Milanese...did the pricking last night and will be winding the bobbins for it today. Also setting up my smaller pillow for a Christmas ornament for my soon-to-be mother-in-law. My next big project, after the holidays, is a Unitarian Universalist chalice in Milanese for the church I go to. Playing with designs now. The archway braid would be perfect for the flame part of it. Peg in sunny, but chilly, Cleveland Heights OH, where the birds are playing in the bushes outside the window. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Re: lace at jury duty
I was on jury duty about 6 years ago, and brought my lace with me. At that point, I hadn't touched it for literally 10 years...spent most of my time undoing the mistakes I kept making, rather than progressing. But it was fun. I didn't have scissors, as I was in the middle of a piece, so didn't have problems with guards, etc. I made the pillow it was on so it would fit on one of those nylon exercise bags that people take to the gym...a neon lime green with a Gloria Vanderbilt label, no less...on sale at Big Lots for $15.00. That way I could just put the lace in the bag and take it wherever I went during the jury selection process. Luckily I wasn't chosen for a jury, so I had a lot of time to play. I had a few good conversations about what lacemaking and I was doing (or undoing, in this case). Peg in sunny, but cold, Cleveland Heights OH - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Lace classes
Just before my lessons stopped I began learning to make Flanders lace and worked a couple of strips of the different ground. After I took the pins out I found an error but by then I was at the bottom and had been cutting it off. I have left that in my folder to remind myself of how to work it or how an error looks, but then went onto make a second piece, error free:-) I also have left the first 3 really loose and horrible bits of ws tape and half stitch tape and have shown that or pictures of it to a couple of people who made similar remarks about them never being able to make lace as pretty as they see my later pieces. One lady has gone on to make better lace than she imagined, so it did help her get over the feeling of cant do. As mentioned in another email, I am not a teacher, but was able to help two other ladies see another way of learning (the map style), rather than her masses of notes that made now sense when she tried to understand it. She started learning before me and never got beyond the stuff I was doing in my second year, partly because of that and partly because she was only ever able to spare the 2 hours weekly at the lesson time. I did help a bit and her friend had a light bulb moment when I explained how I had got round a certain situation. Sadly out of 15 people attending the class I did I only know of me still working it. Most of the others I have met up with have stopped, one going on to just do quilting. Certainly Arachne has been a huge help in helping me with particular ideas or sticking points (although i would have been working lace anyway), you all just helped improve it and I love the ideas and info that gets thrashed out around the world. Long may it continue. Sue T Dorset UK Sometimes you have to live with an inperfect sample as long as the planned piece is perfect. After all, there is no point in keep undoing a sample and being put off for ever. It is a case of a 'happy medium' and I would rather have lacemakers making lace than lose them (after all they are only making for themselves and they need to enjoy their craft). You can gently ease them into making better quality work as they progress and gain experience. The old saying of 'practice makes perfect' goes a long way. I personally have a piece of lace which was made in the first couple of years of my lacemaking which is absolutely terrible.I keep it and show it to people who say that they could never do anything as well as the later pieces. It works every time. Maureen E Yorks - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Lace classes
Sometimes you have to live with an inperfect sample as long as the planned piece is perfect. After all, there is no point in keep undoing a sample and being put off for ever. It is a case of a 'happy medium' and I would rather have lacemakers making lace than lose them (after all they are only making for themselves and they need to enjoy their craft).You can gently ease them into making better quality work as they progress and gain experience. The old saying of 'practice makes perfect' goes a long way. I personally have a piece of lace which was made in the first couple of years of my lacemaking which is absolutely terrible.I keep it and show it to people who say that they could never do anything as well as the later pieces. It works every time. Maureen E Yorks - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] what are you doing...
Well there is so little to do on the Honiton piece, you could finish that very quickly. How about that one after you have finished the piece of 'christmas' lace. Anbd personally I like more than one piece on the go at a time, it gives you chance to move around. Maureen E Yorks - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
Re: [lace] Lace classes
I would say 'callifudge' as long as the finished result looks right, if not, then can you 'live' with it??? After all it is the finished piece that matters. Maureen - Original Message - From: "Sue Duckles" To: "Joy Beeson" Cc: "Arachne List email" Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [lace] Lace classes Love it Joy!!! So... does this mean that if the gorblach doesn't look perfect (which, of course, we know it will) one can always' callifudge' as Maureen on this list would say LOL And please can you explain how to frammis the wilberstan?? Sue - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
RE: [lace] Lace classes
> but it might be worth > considering that your students might have been damaged by a > previous experience. Happened to me with one: it appeared she could not bear at all with undoing. If I had known I would have fiddled something but even the first time appeared to be fatal. Lesson learnt by me: _allways_ ask "do you want to live with an imperfect sample"? After a few times you know the attitude. Jo - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
