[lace] Lace lamps of the "peg Lamps" genre. I need you help!

[brido11]

I have been approached by a person writing an article on peg lamps, and we are
discussion on the question of whether some of the “so called” lace lamps
were in fact of the “peg lamp” variety.

These are the the glass (not always but for our purposes glass will be the
material) oil reservoirs that were made especially to be able to “Slot-in”
to an existing candle holder/candlestick.

I have looked at my pictures and think that it is quite possible that some of
these lamps my well have this facility.

Most of you know that my resources are almost all digital and (ashamedly) I
rely on you good folks to help me with the real objects when I need it.  So I
am asking if those of you who have lace lamps would have a look at them as see
if they are of the “peg lamp” variety.  It is almost certain that the
short ones will not be peg lamps, but if you have a taller one it may well be
interesting to see if it is of the “peg lamp” genre.

>From my resources I suspect the Andover museum examples of Lace Lamps may just
be peg lamps, other too.

If you want to find put more about peg lamps, here is a UTube video of them.
One of them (the tall glass one) is the sort of thing I am looking for)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACDoVz_N8so

Many thanks

Brian





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[lace] Lace lamps, peg lamps and whale oil

[brido11]

A special thank you to those of you who were in a position to reply to my
query about peg lamps.  I have found them most helpful and as result of their
help and some initial (subjective) observations I would like to share my
thinking on this development, which until now, I was totally ignorant of.  I
stand to be corrected in these observations by those knowledgeable on this
subject or have friends that can contribute to our knowledge.  My comments are
all  related to those lamps designated as lace lamps and are oil fueled not
candle illuminated.

1. Peg Top lamps:
These are mostly blown in three separate pieces, though often two pieces.  The
key component is a glass oil font that has a peg (Tapered tail perhaps?) and
can be fitted into and existing candlestick.  To be part of a description of a
lace lamp it will generally fit quite deeply into the candle stick leaving a
comparatively short amount of the peg (taper) showing above the top of the
candlestick.  I would guess that in most cases it would not be much longer
than 30 mm showing.
>From my initial observations I think there is a fair representation of peg
lamps that are part of the so called lace makers lamps that are around and or
collected.  Often it would seem to be present in those lamps that have a glass
handle to the candlestick part of it. (Not always of course) The taller the
lamp the more likely it is to have the peg oil font.
The presence of the peg top oil font does not detract from the lamp and its
implied use.  I am beginning to think that it should be listed a feature of
the lamp in any description of it that mat be written.

2. Whale Oil as the fuel
As this is a chatty communication I can reveal my total ignorance of this
being used as a fuel in historic times.  It appears that until the invention
of kerosene, “say” the mid 1800s, whale oil was the fuel used for most
lighting and therefor used as a fuel  for those oil fueled lace lamps before
and after (until kerosene became more generally available in England... BTW it
was invented by a Scotsman).  I mention this as a matter of general interest
for those, who like me, have never given it much thought; but also as there is
a whole genre of “Whale Oil Lamps”, that, by and large, can not be
confused with those we call Lace Makers Lamps. Mostly they are quite
different.

I might offer the following as a preliminary conclusion:
The objects that are described as Lace Makers lamps, may have a feature of a
separate blown oil font (peg top) that is designed to fit into an existing
candlestick.  The presence of a peg top font in a lace makers lamps does not
detract from its implied use or value, rather it adds a feature to it that
should be recognized in any description of such lamps.  Most oil fueled lace
makers lamps used whale oil as the fuel until quite late in the 1800s until
kerosene became more widely available.
Note “Kerosene” is generally called paraffin in the UK.


Brian



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[lace] "Antique Indian Plains Lace bobbins"

[brido11]

I found a description on eBay of what to me are Cleary two English lace
bobbins.  There is a very large price attached to the article.

I have challenged the seller, but perhaps some of our American members can
tell me if the Colonial missionaries taught lace to the Plains Indians?

I might have to eat my words?  Can you help please?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-Plains-Indian-Bobbin-Lace-Sewing-Tools-/252
578712933?hash=item3acedd4d65:g:nX4AAOSwNRdX--L5

Brian

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[lace] Bobbins and the Plain Indians

[brido11]

I was careful to word my challenge to the seller around the issue of
provenance.  I am clearly glad that I did as they could have been used by the
Indians.

These bobbins were made around 1830 with one possibly made much later ( I will
need to study it carefully.)  How do these dates  match up with the mission
activity ... but as yet I have not read the articles linked in your helpful
replies.

I am convinced that the issue of provenance is becoming more important as
bobbin prices rise.

You have been more than helpful

Thank you.  I am at my computer and it is bedtime, but good reading for me
tomorrow.

Brian

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[lace] Plains Indian bobbins

[brido11]

Dear Spiders,

You guys are supposed be kind to me and what have you done? You have
stirred my interest so now I have to “find out more”  G to you all...(
smile)  BUT please keep sending me pictures urls references so that I can
“see” what types of bobbins were used.

I think we have at least one member that has researched “Indian Lace” at
an advanced degree level.

Many of you remember that in the past we quite few “List” investigations
that I tried to pull together and write up.

I think this could be another project because of my total ignorance in this
area.
The picture of one Indian Lace pillow I have been sent shows French / possibly
Sri Lankan bobbins (Doubtful).

*So I think that if I can, with your help, collect as many authentic
pictures of lace pillows with bobbins on them as reasonable, we may well be
able to do some analysis of the bobbins used.* Your contributions will be
welcome.  Many (many) thanks.


Also you lovely American Members, please forgive my slack language.  I
frequently shoot my mouth off before I think properly about what I am saying.
I humbly accept your gentle chiding of my slack writing and lack of American
History in my education.

 Sadly my American history comes via John Wayne! Oh, yes, Jean reminds me that
I seem to take a lot of notice of the delightful Victoria in the High
Chaparral series.  [ this is my poor attempt at trying to be funny, so do not
take me too seriously! But she may well be right about Victoria!]

Brian


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[lace] Honiton Bobbins of Historical significance. and.. Lace and Lace Making. M Powys

[brido11]

Since the uploading of the  Lace Bobbin dictionary and collectors guide
(www.brianlemin.com  ) I have been concentrating
on studying Antique Honiton (EAST Devon) lace bobbins.  They are totally
fascinating when they are decorated. Boring when plain, beautiful when
modern artists have painted them!  Smile.

 

I came across a terrible reproduction of some really historically
significant Honiton Lace Bobbins in Powys, Lace and Lace making.  Horses
charging each other, Queen Victoria in all, her regalia.  Other local
history things too, Sidmouth and a ship etc..  They just made my mouth water
let alone the excitement of thinking those bobbins are "out there"
somewhere? 

 

The illustration I have is too poor for me to reproduce for study purposes.
Does anyone have a "really nice, clear" picture in their copy of the book
please?  [ oops.. that would be willing to share with me?]

Even better, does anyone own one of these (big smile) or know where  I might
be able to see them. whatever.

 

Your special help to track these down would be most appreciated.

 

Also any Antique decorated Honiton (East Devon) images for study purposes
would be more than welcomed.  Especially Ships, people and domestic
"implements".  Frankly.. Anything! Smile.

 

Perhaps you would share this request with others especially say the facebook
group  (Facebook will not give me membership) or I am thinking the
collectors in other countries.

 

Anyway, you know me, bobbin fanatic anything to cure my bobbin illness.

 

Which reminds me;  a little thank you for your kind thoughts re my bowel
cancer and operation.  I am now a proud card carrying member of permanent
colostomy, but well and truly alive() and smiling.  It works well, and
not so bad as I imagined, hardly slows me down and as I have said the
alternative was not thinkable. (Oh ps. no chemo either!)

 

Thanks again

 

Brian


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[lace] re me and Facebook!

[brido11]

Thanks for all your help!!

 

In short this is the situation

 

Many years ago I had a Facebook page, then my email got hacked and all my
friends were asked for money to get me out of Ireland.  I blocked my account
and despite say 3 tries to get a page they have always refused.

 

After the last attempt I decided I would give up.

 

Brian

 

 


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[lace] Would like to contact Pompi Parry please.

[brido11]

Would you mind dropping me a note please.

 

Re "royals on "bobbins".

 

Thanks

 

Brian


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[lace] In plain sight finds, The East Devon Lace Bobbin Project.

[brido11]

Just to let you know that even though this project is quite new a few
exciting things have happened in the last few days.

 

A bobbin dated 1662 (possibly England's oldest dated bobbin)  few new
inscriptions recorded of special interest, besides my previous reporting of
Queen Victoria, a Lady Horse Rider and Jousting match.  

 

All this is very exciting, but the thing is that all these finds were in
"Plain Sight", all it took to find them was a special interest and kind
request for owners to look at their decorated Honiton/Downton lace bobbins.

 

In general I do not have enough bobbins to study and if you could contribute
to this Project I would love to have a simple but sharp, picture of your
decorated Honiton Downton bobbin. And a list of the inscriptions you may
have on them.

 

The pictures do not need special skill, just line up about 6 bobbins with a
little space between them for each picture you send me.  I would just love
that.

 

I am bursting with excitement. please do not let me deflate!! Smile   I am
sure we will all be amazed ay what will turn up, In plain sight" within your
collection.

 

Brian

 


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[lace] census records and definitions

[brido11]

May of you will know that we have nothing more than two names that were
recorded by Gertude Whiting as being maker  of Honiton lace bobbins.  They
are  Mr Miller and Mr Goode.  They appear both to be Beer residents, though
it is possible that Mr Millers mother married again (??)  I am guessing the
Gertrude Whiting visited in the 1920s.



I am pretty hopeless at this sort of thing, I have looked at on line
censuses and found not such occupation as Bobbin maker/ lace bobbin maker/
bobbin decorator.  That is one thing.  We have always known that for
Honiton/Downton bobbins there was a possibility of other people decorating
the bobbins, maybe the lace dealers outsourced this job?  So I have looked
for evidence of this too.  No luck.



I would like your expertise on definitions I found in census data.



Lacemaker… OK I have a handle on that

But what is a “Lace worker”? and what is a “Lace sewer”? or perhaps a sewer?

Lace dealer is OK with me.

Does census data call them anything else?



In the Devon census could a lace worker possibly be a  bobbin decorator
(Yes, I am clutching at straws!! Sorry) smile



I have read most of the books about Devon lace/ families etc, but not a
mention of bobbin decorators.  Am I fated to never know who made them and
who decorated them?  (leave aside seamen, perhaps shepherds or possibly
children (Naïve bobbins)



If any of you happen on anything that might be a clue  about makers
/decorators.in your reading about lace etc in Devon/ Downton areas, think of
me please?



Bobbin making and or decorating could well have been a second job or that of
a carpenter/ undertaker who had wood skills/ wood lathe?



I think this is a puzzle that I am going have to live with, but you guys
know so much more about this industry and history than I do.



OH yes. Of course I am ok with East Midland bobbins. It is Honiton,
Branscombe and Downton that is my current project.



Thanks, the project is progressing in a positive manner but it’s slow!!...
Always will be!



Brian






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[lace] re Find my past "free" ancestry site

[brido11]

I have been using the Free part of this site  [
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-united-kingdom-records ] to collect
all the names of lace makers in Devon from the censuses. The idea is that
those with sets of initials on their bobbins will be able to consult this
list and "try" and match up the names of the lace makers.  I suspect this
will be difficult and require some patience!  But I hope it will be a
resource.

 

However I discovered that Occupation and county was not transcribed  into
these two data bases of the census.  (1871, 1841)

"IF" you have a subscription you can report this to them (see below)  I will
leave the matter with you to see if there is a kind soul with asubscption
that might feel comfortable doing this.

 

I have all the names for the other censuses.

 

This is Find My pats, reply to my query.:

 

Regarding the 1871 Census & 1841 Census
During the transcription process the occupation and birth place were not
captured, it was only the following that was transcribed:-

Name
Age
Relationship to head of household
Sex
County of Birth

If you have an active subscription it is possible to report transcription
errors and add details of occupation/ County,  which anyone with a
subscription is able to do. 

 

Thank you

 

Brian





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[lace] The Bobbins of Thomas Wright , The Romance of the Lace Pillow 1919

[brido11]

It is 100 years since his book was first published; a book I devoured many
years ago when I got hit by the "Bobbin Bug".  This week, I re-read my first
chunk of it waiting for my turn to sit in the Dentist's Chair and it gave me
such a lift as the more I read the calmer I got!  I had decided that I would
write an article about "His" bobbins.  However, if I am to do that I need
your help (as usual) as one thing I realized was that I have never seen some
of the bobbins he talks about.  I suspect that I will be writing a few
begging letters to you all to see if you have seen them and/or you own one,
request a picture of it! (no nothing has changed!! Smile)  Here are my first
set of requests:

 

1:

He says that he is aware of bobbins (remember before 1919) that were made of
Brass, Silver, Gold, Pewter, glass and ivory; of course as well as bone and
wood.

I have seen brass, and pewter bobbins, never gold, silver, or ivory and I
may have seen antique glass bobbins but frankly I have no idea how to date
them? Of course I am not expecting that you have any or all of these
yourself (maybe) but have you seen them in museums or other collections
please? I repeat ,remember they must be antiques before 1919.

2:

Yak bobbins.  He describes the original Yaks as being 7 inches long and 4
inches in circumference.  I have seen some of the smaller ones he describes
that developed from the large ones. but never this "big" bobbin.  Have you?
Perhaps you may even have one?

 

OK I will stop there for today.

 

I think my next request will, if we find one, tell us which village it came
from.  That is just a teaser.

 

(Yes, I am still chasing pictures of Honiton and Downton decorated bobbins.)

 

Take Care

 

Brian

 

 


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[lace] Wrights bobbins (part 2) Incribed... what village do they come from? [ interesting] and other stuff [boring] smile

[brido11]

Frankly I wish I could tell you but Wright knew the villages where certain
bobbins come from.

Do you have a bobbin inscribed G P -FH August 26th 1813?  Then that appears
to commemorate a wedding in Renhold.

That is pretty straightforward but so many of the inscriptions are repeated
many (many) times!.  The next two inscriptions L.K. 1844 and M.A,G Ag. 18
Ro. (Probably RO=Robert)  These came from Turweston.

 

Interesting he thinks the artistic design and development of the pretty East
Midland bobbins was influenced by "The French Blood" in the people of North
Bucks.

 

When you read the article I am writing about Wrights bobbins you will find
that A I tend to agree with him and B I go a bit further by asserting the
bobbins makers that introduced these new designs actually copied the French
bobbins of Normandy.  That is a bit heretical, but maybe from some
discussion we can learn something between us.  I will be the first to put my
hand up and  say I was wrong, but it will be worth taking about.

 

*   The other heretical thing he mentions that there a some
knowledgeable people of his time (Published 1919) who believe that lace (in
England) started in Devon!! Wow. I will be carefully about weighing into
that but you could take the opportunity of reading  Yallops , History of the
Honiton Lace industry.  It is part of his doctoral thesis and he makes some
good points.

 

What I found interesting is that many of the inscriptions on bobbins were
coincidental with the  "Valentine craze in in England" 1860 - 1880. I cant
comment on that but I do know that there is so much to learn and discover
when we research the lovely Lace Making Bobbin.

 

 

The other thing he has is quite an incomplete list of names on bobbins and
the village he found them in  Like Mary Bless. he saw this name on a bobbin
in Cranfield, he does similar things for dates and  Places.  If only we had
more time to research these gems he dropped.  For  example there is a bobbin
inscribed "Ann Woolaston 1821" do you have this one? Is so he tells us that
she lived in Castle Ashby.

 

So here we have it, there is more to lace bobbins than we think.

 

Drop me a note if you happen to have any of these bobbins please?
Thanks,..with a picture?... double thanks smile.

 

What I am learning is that Thomas Wright stirs the "grey matter" into
action.

 

Sorry to be a dull correspondent, if only I knew about lace!!! (failed)

 

BTW I have been asked to write note about Marian Powys.  Do any of you have
a piece of her Lace in your collections. Did you know her??  If so tell me
your story please.

 

Many thanks

 

Brian


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[lace] List of lace making towns/villages in East Midlands???

[brido11]

I thought it would be easy to get a list of the above places where lace
makers were active, say in 1850? (+ or -) But so far I have failed.

 

I can get a couple of lists dated 1700 but that is too early for my
purposes.

 

I want to create a map (I learned how this afternoon!!) of these places as I
am a visual person.

 

Does anyone have a list they would care to share with me (and eventually all
of you!)

 

Fingers crossed and much advanced thanks

 

Sorry I keep asking for help!!

 

Brian


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[lace] Lace Towns of the East Midlands,,, pretty good progress!

[brido11]

Thank you all for your ideas and contributions.

 

Basically I have a list of 160 (plus) towns in the "East Midlands" Derived
from " you" the books I have, and a couple recommended to me. 

 

( --Lace making areas, East Midlands:  Bedfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Large
section of Northamptonshire, parts of adjoining Counties of Oxfordshire
Huntingdonshire, Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire.)

 

Frankly, though I am certain it is not a complete list, it will do for my
purpose.  In fact, I am a bit scared as to how well it will go in my newly
learned adaptation of personalization of Google Maps.

 

I will give it shot, I think it will be time consuming, but I know you will
be willing me on (phew)

 

Thank you

 

Brian

 


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[lace] Re Marian Powys (Grey)

[brido11]

I have been asked to write an essay about this wonderful lace lady and lace
designer!! (UK and USA)

 

You will have to be monstrously "old" to have known her/ met her, but if you
have done any of these things can you drop me a note please.  I have very
little , "lace/ and Marian as a person", to go on so I am collecting what I
can get.

 

I promise I will not tell anyone that you knew her Smile.

 

I am old enough to have met her but I never did!

 

Brian

PS Perhaps you know someone who has met her?  Would you dob them in to me?
Please.


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RE: [lace] RE: East Midlands lace villages

[brido11]

That was interesting Louise,

One of the things I do is keep an eye out for "England's Oldest Bobbin".  
Currently it is a Honiton Trolley dated 1662.  We stand a chance with Honiton 
bobbins to reasonably date the bobbins because many have a date on them.  What 
I took from your email, was that for East Midland bobbins, though we will not 
get a date for a bobbin but a token for an area would be interesting a possibly 
useful.

I will have to think about it.  It would not be an Oldest bobbin, but it would 
be a "something"!!  (Forgive the lack of academic vigour!!)

Does anyone collect "Lace Tokens?" Real or virtual.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Louise Bailey
Sent: Friday, 9 August 2019 8:56 PM
To: 'lace@arachne.com' ; brid...@bigpond.com
Subject: [lace] RE: East Midlands lace villages

Brian,

Pat Brunsden wrote an article for Lace - the Lace Guild magazine -  a few years 
ago detailing a survey of census data for the lace villages of Cambridgeshire 
/Huntingdonshire. I can dig it out for you over the weekend if no one else has 
done so.  Nicky Howener-Townsend has done something similar for the Lacemakers 
of Suffolk around the town of Eye, but that is strictly not  East Midlands I 
suppose.

I live right on the edge of the Huntingdonshire lace district, close to St 
Neots, which issued a lace token in 1664, and has poor house records on 
lacemaking  dating back to 1594. If I remember rightly there were two 
lacemakers  recorded on one of the census returns in the next village, 
Toseland,  (a tiny hamlet really), but not in mine, Yelling, 3 miles further 
east. Both were classic small agricultural villages.  I shall see if I can find 
the records again.

Louise

Battening down the hatches in preparation for the high winds today/tomorrow!

--

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 23:40:52 +1000
From: 
Subject: [lace] List of lace making towns/villages in East Midlands???

I thought it would be easy to get a list of the above places where lace makers 
were active, say in 1850? (+ or -) But so far I have failed.
I can get a couple of lists dated 1700 but that is too early for my purposes.
I want to create a map (I learned how this afternoon!!) of these places as I am 
a visual person.
Does anyone have a list they would care to share with me (and eventually all of 
you!) Fingers crossed and much advanced thanks Sorry I keep asking for help!!
Brian


  


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[lace] Yep, I am asking for help again!

[brido11]

Dear All,

 

I am looking for a shortish paragraph that will demonstrate the complexity
of lace making.  My reason for asking this is that the literary buffs of the
Powys Society possibly think that their expertise in literature supersedes
Marian Powys's skill in lace.

I have to say that in contact with some of the members this assumption is
not correct, but I would like help in convincing  "some" of the members how
skillful and capable a lace maker/ designer is.

One writer on Marion says she should have had a Ph.d at least! As a mere non
lace maker I agree.

 

BTW the fact I do not make lace is not crucial to this essay which is
essentially a mini biography; though I am sure I will need more help!

 

Any takers?

Thanks. keep it as short as you reasonably can please. (I am probably asking
the impossible.)

 

 

Brian


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[lace] re the Marian Powys essay. Not so good!

[brido11]

Dear All,

 

Oh dear Here I come confessing to all my inadequacies.  Never mind, this is
straight from me. It is not fake news!

 

All this started with my search for some really unique bobbins that at one
time were in Marians possession and illustrated in her book Lace and Lace
Making. 

The editor of the Powys Society journal heard of my enquiries and asked me
if I would write an essay on Marian as the Society felt that she had been
somewhat neglected in their various studies. Basically I agreed and got
cracking.

 

I did a 3000 word essay and had some worthwhile criticism from the editor,
which I was very ready to incorporate, then he told me he wanted 6,000 words
plus well annotated illustrations.  Also he wanted my "essay" to be written
in an academic mode with references and end notes etc.

 

When I started I had thought that he had just wanted a story that
demonstrated Marians prowess and ability along with some family history to
place her in context of her time and inform newer lace makers of someone
whom they may not know about.  I just chatted on as is usual for me.

 

Many of you will remember that I often refer to my dislike of academic
writing.  Not that I cant do it as in my professional life I have written a
book, a chapter in a book, some 40 plus professional articles, possibly 6
conference papers and my Master in Ethics was done via research and thesis.

 

(I hate telling you all, this I just want to remain a person interested in
bobbins!) 

 

The point I want to make is that I can write academically.  Frankly I do not
need another academic article on my CV,,, the angels will not be impressed!
Smile.  I try and write to tell a story.

 

I will rewrite my article in a style I am more comfortable with and submit
it appropriately  for lace makers to be able to read about a wonderful
woman.  If they turn me down then I will park it on Arizona Web Docs where I
put all my other articles that are not journal published. (Probably that is
because I do not submit them. ) lace is what you guys love and bobbins are
an adjunct. I get it and am very comfortable with that.

 

I accept that I  must appear a cantankerous old man, but it is my retirement
to enjoy, not to take on tasks that might stress me out.

 

I have offered  some 4  names to the Society as alternatives to myself and
also have learned that a Harvard person is studying her.  If the Harvard
person is doing theses on Marian that will be very useful and enlightening.

 

I hope to use the contributions that some of you have sent me for the
revised Marian essay.  Thank you for those contributions.

 

OK. Confession over

 

Sorry about that and special thanks to you all for supporting me in my lace
ignorance and special help from time to time.

 

Regards

 

Brian

"Lace Bobbin Historian" [ tries hard not to bore you all]

"Essayist.."  [failed!!!"]

Don't worry  "All will be well"... smile

 

End Note(!)  "All will be well" is a Powysian thing that I have just
learned.  I like it.

 

 

 

 


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[lace] Can Tess Parish drop me a note please?

[brido11]

Re Bobbin and Needle club  webdocs?  A couple of Marian Powys articles.

 

One is Remembering happy days (?)  

 

The other is A Gentleman's Lace

 

And the third.  King Charles 11 Lace

 

I know not all the Bobbin and Needle club has been scanned.

 

I am not "totally sure" that they were published in the B and N club???

 

Brian


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[lace] New URL Webdocs

[brido11]

Just to let you know the head of Arizona Uni department responsible for
"webdocs" has died and the University is restructuring the site. The first
thing is a new URL. here it is 

 https://www2.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/front_door.html

 

For those who may not know about this service it is a site devoted to
"broadly" the weaving arts and that includes lace.  The Uni and some of our
Arachne people have volunteered to scan a huge amount of historical journals
(i.e., Needle and Bobbin club) so that we can easily access them.

 

Authors can also place their  studies on the site.  I have about 50 Bobbin
articles there.  I do this as, whereas Lace journals have published my stuff
(happily) they would go mad if I sent them everything I wrote and I don't
blame them!

 

There is just a huge amount of information on the site in a wide variety of
genres and sections.  Researchers heaven, but also a lot of just plain
interesting and informative stuff.  (Look at this oldie using the word
"stuff"  its like saying "two times" (whatever happened to twice?)

 

I sure there are others involved but I would like to give a nod of
appreciation to Tess Parish who volunteered for 5 years at Arizona's
(Perhaps more) on our behalf.  Thanks Tess.  So there you are

 

Webdocs.  Worth knowing about if you are new to the list.

 

Ps I have sent a few recommendations to the development team, mostly about
the need for a really good search engine, as finding a document can be a
pain, or an author come to that.  There are a couple of work arounds, but if
they are re doing the site perhaps a decent search engine is the easiest.
(I am no IT person though)

 

OK I still want pictures of antique decorated Downton and Honiton bobbins..
Please./  I got about 20 pics from my last appeal.. I would love 100!! (just
greedy me!)

 

Thanks

Brian

 

 

 


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[lace] Honiton bobbin Inscriptions, request

[brido11]

Hello all,

 

First the important thing.  Did you happen to see the flattering publicity I
got with the discovery of  Englands oldest dated lace bobbin?  1662.even
before the  Great Fire of London!  It has really helped with the East
Devon/Downton project so I am building on it by trying to right a big
difference in the information available on  Midland bobbins as opposed to
Honiton bobbins.

 

Did you know there is no collection of inscriptions/mottoes on Honiton
bobbins?  Wright has pages of them for East Midland bobbins, but Hontions,
pretty well ZERO anywhere.

 

I wonder IF you happen to have any Honiton (Downton) inscribed bobbins,
would you be good enough to write them down and send them to me, please? IF
accompanied by even a phone snap of the bobbin that will raise a  BIG smile
to my face.

 

Re the lace town map.  I think I am going to give up on that as the villages
of old were so "close" to each other, a map becomes a blur of names.  I will
see if there is another way around this.

 

You would need to be getting on in years,  but I am writing a "lace"
biography of Marian Powys, have any of you got any personal memories of her
that you are willing to share, please?  Mind you she made her lace mark
mostly in America.

 

What a miserable mate I am, all I ever ask you to do is "work" for me!!!

 

Thanks to all of you.

 

Brian


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[lace] Yes I am looking for help again (again!!!) sorry :(

[brido11]

Are there amongst you a person I would call perhaps an "academic artist?" or
indeed anyone crazy enough to want to give it a go!

 

I am trying to work out a sort of dictionary for describing the various
decorations found on Honiton bobbins.

 

I have been trying to use heraldic terms, for example, to describe the
various sorts of lines the decorators used,  It sort of works, but seems a
bit high powered for what I am after.

 

But let me give you an example:

The decorators love "bricks", but they have at least 7 types of
(bricklaying!!! )Brick designs.

 

I would like to be able to say that a bobbin has a . say:  The top of the
shaft has an "Open brick" design or perhaps "wide brick". whatever for the 7
types.

 

Other than bricks there are 9 design groups. Triangle, hearts, diamonds,
lines,

Foliage and flowers, living creatures, human artifacts, ships humans and
others.  Some are easy to name.

 

Of course I can send any "crazy" individual who volunteers all the designs.

 

OK, I am not holding my breath!  Finger are crossed

 

Not sure if I should end by saying

 

Your friend(!)

 

Brian

 

 


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[lace] Some Honiton inscriptions, pretty good haul.. please keep them coming Thank you

[brido11]

This batch has shown me that a  pic accompanying them “helps”, but just
the inscription is FINE too. (I always want more... Sorry.)

Some are similar to the East Midlands others clearly nautical.  I think that
Whiting talked to a Mr Good when she visited Devon? I will have to find the
reference. He was a maker.. but this is just memory ☹

Oh Yes, the initials and/or dates are important.



More thanks smile



Brian







Mary Jane

Love forget me not

Anne

Green grow the Laurel AJVL Death only parts untied Hearts

I love my choice to well to change my heart id fixed I cannot range

Welcome sailor to his dear anchor weigh ships near

The Grace of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Crist Amen

JV MCW

TE1849

PRS

RW  GS-EP

SP-PB

PZ-JJ

Violet Marrel Vernon Jane Nov 14 1906 MVV

CA-DMH-1811

JP-TP

HG

MAVM/HB-HD-1805

When I am gone and far at sea forget not love to think on me 1844 LS-EN-TM

H.GOOD 1841 SUCC

JHG 1844 DAE

Jesus to thy arms I fly save o Save or I die SM

The gift is small but love is Oll John Bools 1843/Wair

Two hearts in union meet sb sweet o sweet is that sensation

Love and Live happy love the giver 1827

Green grows the Laurel and so doth the Hue Howe




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[lace] How much did "good" lace bobbins cost historical lace makers?

[brido11]

I know that is the sort of question many of you would probably think to ask
me, but I have no idea.

 

People like Compton and Haskins worked hard and long to create what in fact
are artistic masterpieces. (not mention on primitive lathes.)

 

Then they had to sell them to less than well-paid lacemakers or perhaps get
a bit more for them at a fair.

 

Springett gave us massed produced bobbin catalogues but I have not found
anywhere that told me how much the good "listed" makers charged for their
bobbins.

 

They had to make living after all.

 

I just find it hard to understand that an ordinary lace maker could afford
to buy a say: a three-tier mother and babe made from bone.

 

I suspect that my reading is different to many who read about lace.  Have
any of you bumped into this figure or who can offer a clue?

 

My most recent question was When did pewter start being used in bobbin
decoration?  Answer. I do not know, but I have drafted a longwinded
discussion article about it.  Coming soon to WebDocs.

 

Thanks.

 

I am thinking of adopting the motto "There is sso much we don't know!"


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[lace] How much did lace makers pay for high end bobbins. Reply

[brido11]

As usual, I am indebted to Arachne members for their response to my
question.

1.  Most agreed with my proposed new motto about how much we  DO NOT
know.  All agreed.
2.  It was suggested that our study of bobbins (basically relating from
Springett's book) is dealing with the high end of lace making. 

I found that a very interesting observation that had never come to my
consciousness, though my bobbin partner  (The Diana Smith Collection) has
often titillated me with collections of "cottage bobbins" and all sorts of
"different" bobbins. Together we have puzzled on dating bobbins prior to
Springett.  We have identified quite a few different makers to add to
Springett's list.  I presume it will be up to someone with a genealogical
bent to explore this and do another Springett but prior to the 1770s.  A
very hard task and one which I would not contemplate.



3.  This what the Arachne member said to me : Yes, I would love to know
how low paid workers got their mitts on ivory mother and babes. I am
suspecting that the "middle class" possibly made lace.  Possibly they made
it for their own use or possibly as a pass-time. Being in a class with more
coin to spend, their pillows would be decorated with better quality bobbins.
I would figure that [the better off] would be the ones that would be buying
ivory bobbins. Maybe servants were occasionally gifted a pair that was old
or slightly damaged, as a reward for service above and beyond?

 

I would like to subscribe to that line of thought.  I have recently been
researching Marian Powys, she was  "from the genteel" class, her cousin Lady
Mary from the Blenheim area, gave Marian her the opportunity she had to
start making lace as a career choice.  With those "upper class" ladies in
mind, there would have been quite a few others that enjoyed lace-making
without it being their source of income. Thus they could afford "better"
bobbins.

 

I have to say that when I am thinking of historical lace making it is a
mature lady or a bunch of girls outside in the sun with their pillows.  I
had better have a bit of a rethink

 

Thanks again to you all.

 

Brian


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RE: [lace] 1851 Great exhibition bobbins

[brido11]

Dear All,

Recently many have thanked me for my research efforts and that was encouraging, 
but if only you all knew what goes on (lace wise!!) between Diana and me.

How can you resist challenging questions like that?  I read Wright only a few 
months ago.  I did not pick up that titbit about ivory.  She is full of 
knowledge, full of challenges, can spot a fake bobbin at 50 metres!  Best of 
all there are very few questions that I ask her for which she does not have the 
answer or some important clues to follow up.

What with Diana Smith and the "Arachne brains trust" I am the most supported 
researcher out there,

Thank you all, "even" Diana! Smile [Diana will ask me an even harder question 
for that jocular " "!]

Brian

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Diana Smith
Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2019 9:03 AM
To: Arachne 
Subject: [lace] 1851 Great exhibition bobbins

I decided to come out from the shadow of my friend and fellow old bobbin freak 
Brian Lemin to post a question of my own. 

Having said previously that I only have one old ivory bobbin in the collection 
I remembered a special pair purchased some years ago from reputable dealer Anne 
Swift. They have the provenance  of being “one of a set of 144 made for the 
1851 Crystal Palace Exhibition - ivory bobbins”.

On page 221 of Thomas Wrights book Romance of the Lace Pillow he writes of the 
exhibition “When Queen Victoria visited the Exhibition Miss Elizabeth Clayson 
(afterwards Mrs. George Smith of Olney) had the honour of making lace in her 
presence. The pillow was covered for the occasion with blue velvet edged with 
rose colour, and provided with rose colour bobbin bags.” It seems logical that 
special bobbins would be held in those special bags.

Friend Liz Knight of the museum at Olney wasn’t able to help.

I know there are itemised catalogues of the exhibition out there somewhere and 
would love to know if there’s any confirmation of Miss Clayson and the bobbins 
she used before the Queen. 

I guess what I’m looking for is someone who has a copy of the said catalogue or 
access to one. Any help would be appreciated.

Diana

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[lace] What is it made of? Ivory

[brido11]

Hi Roberta,

Firstly I have written an article "What is it made of"  on Web docs.  It is
pretty detailed.  ( avoid the destructive tests)
https://www2.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/webdocs/lb_matrl.pdf  Find my
name by scrolling then find the article (others know easier ways!!)

I wrote that a long time ago, it is still valid, but what I do is look for a
"Grain" on ivory as opposed to lines and perhaps holes in bone. I could add
look for a proper, nice grain.  Bone marks are crude lines and rough
compared with the nice grain finish and look of ivory. I often use a
magnifying glass.

That will be a good start.  Once you find some real ivory and looked at it
carefully the difference between it and bone will be comparatively easy.

Best guess is to assume that all bobbins are bone... there are but few
exceptions.

I hope that is helpful

Regards
Brian


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[lace] Official catalogue 1851 Great Exhibition catalogue for free download

[brido11]

https://archive.org/details/officialcatalog06unkngoog/page/n11

 

and other sites

 

Brian


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[lace] 1851 Great Exhibition catalogue

[brido11]

I did a digital search from that previous URL and with no effect.  I found
another site and the search engines seemed to work well, but I got lace, but
no Lace bobbin,  Ivory but no ivory bobbin.

 

I do not think the catalogue is laid out in such a manner that it will help
us.

 

Brian


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[lace] Sorry.. I gave one wrong title.

[brido11]

The 1662  "title" is wrong.

 

It should be

Englands oldest dated bobbin.  It is 5 pages long.  

I think you will find it as it is one article in a series as I have found
"older" bobbins.

 

https://www2.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/lace.html#webdocs

 

 

I do beg your pardon.

 

Brian


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[lace] I "think" i have made a discovery???

[brido11]

Dear All,

Now I am getting myself all excited because as I was sorting out all my
Honiton bobbin files and genres I THINK I have discovered a railway engine,
complete with coal tender and some form of carriage (not for people) but a
container truck.

 

I have no date, BUT I may have scrounged the images (3 of them that I put
together to form the train) from a person whose initials are  "S P".  I
suspect it would have been many years ago when I was in the UK on holiday.

 

The bobbin is quite worn.

 

You can see

1.  The railway lines. which blend into lines and sleepers
2.  The railway engine with a front and if you peer hard a possible
driver section
3.  Behind that a coal tender with some black coal in it
4.  Followed by the container/ carriage.

I need to put this up on your photo page but I never know how to do this, so
if someone on the other side of the world is awake.. can you tell me how,
please??

 

 

It is me that will not sleep tonight!  How can a grown man get his Bonds in
such a twist over a bobbin ?

 

It can only be me

 

Brian


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[lace] Train bobbin up on Flickr

[brido11]

The Railway bobbin train!! is up on Flickr.

 

Thanks Bev

 

Brian


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[lace] New article on webdocs

[brido11]

Historical steam representations on Honiton bobbins.

 

 

Re a steam engine (Probably agricultural) and the railway scene (showing a
train)

 

I posted this recently

 

I am told that this URL gets closer to my articles.  Look for Brian Lemin
then title.. getting hard to sort them out!  Sorry.

 

Brian

 

https://www2.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/lace.html#webdocs

 

 

The next article is about the non-carved decoration of Honiton bobbins...
Coming very soon.

I seem to have too much time on my hands. I had better get a job!  Smile.


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[lace] History of Lace. Spoiler: this could be boring!

[brido11]

I wanted to write an article on this subject and got to the bottom of page 1
and gave up! (I think that is lucky for you!)

It all came about by me remembering the following blog that I have known
about for some time:

https://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2015/08/25/huguenots-and-englands-lace-ma
king-industry/

This is an excellent article looking at the pros and cons of the "migration"
theory of lace coming to England.  If you have the vaguest interest in this
topic, it is a Must Read.

 

I need to say that in general terms I accept Yallops thesis (H J Yallop in
The History of the Honiton Lace Industry. 1992 Exeter University Press.)
that it was the efforts of English Businessmen that made Lace an industry as
opposed to migration theory.  I also generally accept that these same
businessmen used and exploited the lace makers for their own ends. From my
point of view, Yallop does not convince me about the origins of lace in
England. If I am fair to him he does not really try to prove that point.

 

I think the point that I want to make and ask you about is that I think the
answer to so many problems in history and indeed in modern times is a matter
of that there is truth on both sides of the argument, be it the influx of
European lacemakers or the activities of English businessmen and investors.

 

There is little doubt in my mind that the settlers must have made a real
contribution to English lace making wherever they settled, and so too did
the English businessmen make it a combined and profitable English business.

 

As to the origin of lace in that 1590s ( plus or minus), I leave that point
to be argued by others who know better than me.

 

PS  I have just read what I have written and it seems to me that they are
covering two separate things:

1.  The introduction and spread of lace making in England and 2. the
Converting of this into a national business.

I suspect that by trying to combine these two facets we are not doing
history much of a favour.

 

Brian


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[lace] Hacked ???

[brido11]

I suspect that Alice Howels email has been hacked.  I have received an
Itunes purchase request, which seems a little strange.

 

I have ignored it.

 

Brian


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[lace] Missing Honiton boat? Do you happen to have it?

[brido11]

Dear All ,

 

I have discovered that there is sailing ship named "Robert" that is engraved
on a Honiton bobbin.  I found it recorded (drawn) on a single page that I
have found (where I got it from I know not) from a 1997 article in the Lace
Guild Magazine.

I have a collection of 22 ship images on Honiton bobbins and am keen to get
the "whole fleet" smile.

 

If it is yours or you know its whereabout would you e good enough to drop me
a note! Please.

 

Please.

 

Thanks

 

Brian


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[lace] Re "Alex" and modern Honiton ship bobbin reproduction you sent me.

[brido11]

Somehow I have lost you.  I think I have some information about it for you.
Not much but interesting.

 

Can you drop me a note please?

 

Sorry. I am a hopeless administrator!!

 

Brian


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[lace] Honiton ships on bobbins

[brido11]

Hi all.

 

I am writing an article on the fleet of bobbin ships I have on Honiton
bobbins.

 

IF you have one that you have not sent to me and are happy for me to use the
picture/s  I would be glad to have it in my database.

 

Did you know that David Springett made at least one Honiton ship
reproduction?  Great piece of work.

 

I have 22 ships so far but I know of at least 10 more that are out there in
someone's collection, somewhere!

 

Sometimes owners have not recognized they have a ship.  Look for "sails"
they mostly give the ship away. Oh, here is another clue, one decorator
carves what I call "hairy Hearts", often with two eyes and a nose in them
making them look like faces,  He is a prolific ship carver on bobbins!

 

 

In addition to the 22 bobbin ships, I have a collection of drawn (
illustrated)ships that are on Honiton bobbins.  Maybe you have a drawn
Honiton ship somewhere?  That will be interesting (I do have the Bellerby
drawn collection, Thanks to The Lace Guild.)  I know of one set on a west
country postcard, probably bought at one of the  Devon local museums.

 

Thanks, I am forever in Arachne members debt.

 

Brian (the one-eyed monster who is currently suffering from Double vision
when he uses two eyes! (OK, Booze is not involved!)


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[lace] I blew the "stating the Obvious" sorry

[brido11]

I need to say that I am particularly referring to Honiton (East Devon
bobbins)

 

So sorry [Theyare pretty well all I think of these days!]

 

I did find a "tail" labelled, Branscombe wriggled [LW 1850]  and I am
suggesting that this is quite rare.  I did not find a reference to "LW" in
the Branscombe census records.

 

Brian


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[lace] Academic artists... a question please... photo stream flickr

[brido11]

Dear Arachne friends,

 

I have posted a bobbin on Flickr photostream (with Sues help) it has a
particular style of painting and I have about 6 of them all different but
clearly this painting style.  I want to know what (if any) a correct term
would be for this style.  I was suggested that I should call it "Chinoisee"
style. But all my searching for that word/style came to naught.

 

Do any of you have any suggestions please?

 

Thanks

 

Brian


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[lace] Web storage of photos

[brido11]

Dear All,

 

Firstly I am fortunate not to immediately threatened by our fires, but that
does nt mean we are not prepared, learned our drill have the bags packed
etc.  You can not trust the behaviors of these fires.

 

Jean and I live in a small retirement unit and storage is real problem for
us.

 

When I began "collecting" bobbins I created postcards  size images of them
and printed them off.  I now have 12 albums each with about 500 postcards of
bobbin in them.

 

I just have to get rid of them. Hard copy pics have had their day.

 

I have a few alternatives.  Give them to a person who can collect them from
me in Cooranbong. NSW.  Postage especially overseas is ENORMOUS. (we think
we will have to stop sending stuff to England as the postage is more than
the gifts!)

 

Putting them all on line.  I would like a quick and easy and "free" place to
put them all and people be able to look at them (like they bump into
Pinterest.. but that place is a pain)

 

Does anyone have any suggestions.  Quick, easy multiple uploads to a free
site?

 

You suggestions will be valued.

 

Brian


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[lace] Google photos sharing link

[brido11]

I choose google photos.

 

It has scared me rather as  Google appears to have a copy of every photo I
have taken and every image I have created!  I suppose I did not handle the
process properly, but I am not too worried about it.

 

I have discovered that apparently I can share a  Album with you.  I presume
if you click on it will take you there: 

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vstK8ADx3qo3KtRc6

 

This is my "Lace Making Bobbin Album" and it contains almost 1500 pictures,
the large majority of which are annotated and in Postcard format.  These are
the pictures in the physical albums I want to get rid of, as mentioned in my
earlier post.

 

I have been doing this for years and whilst I think my comments are mostly
accurate I have made a few blunders over the years, particularly in my
earlier times when I really knew hardly anything about these wonderful
tools.

 

I hope this works and you may share the  link with others.

 

I also need to say a special thank you to Arachne members who will have
contributed to these pictures either with a single bobbin or perhaps sharing
with me your whole collection.

 

I see this as an educational database and putting on record a selection of
Lace making bobbins that people may not ordinarily see.

 

Essentially this is an ANTIQUE /VINTAGE bobbin collection and I would like
it to remain so.  Having said that I believe that modern bobbin makers and
bobbin decorators make beautiful bobbins and very collectable bobbins; but
this is not the place for them.

 

So, fingers crossed it will work.

 

 

Many thanks for the suggestions.  Sorry no prize for the  person who
suggested Google!  Smile.

 

Regards 

Brian, who is still fortunately is not threatened by fires.

 

 


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[lace] Photo sharing, Oz Fires and "house space"

[brido11]

Hello all, glad the link worked.

 

Jean ( my wife... carer, cook, cleaner, patchworker extraordinaire, and
wonderful nurse as well as being the tidiest [grrr]person in the world) has
patiently put up with my hobbies and collections over the years and now we
really are running out of room. 

 

We had a serious chat regarding these fires we are having.  Yes we have or
family documents safe and packed ready to go and then we started asking
ourselves  how we would feel if we lost everything?  Out of that
conversation came an audit of "our" (yes she has collections too!) stuff and
alternatives.

 

With the digital world, things have changed... but instead of me looking at
the  bobbin pictures over a cup of coffee and showing to friends, now its
there for Arachne and everyone else to browse.

 

Just in case my light hearted description of Jean appears sexiest, let me
say that I do have my duties in the household and try hard to match the
standards required, however I do "secretly"  accept I have the best of the
deal!  She is Luvverly!

 

Hope you enjoy the pics   https://photos.app.goo.gl/vstK8ADx3qo3KtRc6

 

 

Brian

 


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RE: [lace] Sarah Dazeley hanging bobbin

[brido11]

Springett says no one has ever seen it! I other collectors have never seen it.  
Did it exist?  I think so, The bobbin turners (as now) appear to be able to 
sell "hanging bobbins" for good money.


I have recently spent months trying to find "lost" bobbins and it is very hard 
and so far my quest for Marian Powys "lost Honiton" bobbins has failed!

Maybe we will wake up one day and see it pictured in the Lace Guild journal!  I 
hope so.

Brian



-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Helen Clarke
Sent: Sunday, 26 January 2020 5:02 PM
To: Lace 
Subject: [lace] Sarah Dazeley hanging bobbin

Hi,

Does anyone own a hanging bobbin for Sarah Dazeley? Or even a photo of one? I 
can’t find one anywhere. 

Thanks in advance,

Helen on the west coast of Canada 

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[lace] Finding Lost bobbins./ Boring and dissapointing!

[brido11]

I might one day write up the issues of searching for Lost bobbins but
briefly this what I have done to try and find three totally uniquely
decorated Honiton bobbins that once belonged to Marian Powys (Lace and
Lacemaking) It has taken more than a years and that is with the benefit of
email all over the world.

1. Contacted surviving family members
2 Contacting the second line of family and business friends and associates
(I do have record of say 20 of her East Midland bobbins) Perhaps I should
have said "I did find".and also have a record of...
3 Contacted Devon Museums especially those with Powys contacts
 4 Contacted USA auction houses
5 Contacted key personnel in the USA lace community
6 Contacted the museums where Marian donated or contributed to their
exhibits
7 Wrote articles for OIDFA and IOLA including a begging paragraph!
8 Contacted  our Lace Guild
9 Wrote another article, much more detailed for OIDFA, awaiting publication.
I am convinced they are in America, but I may be wrong.
10 Said prayers (yes, me)

I have given up, but some of you younger people might see them someday.  Who
knows?

There is also a second "transportation" Bobbin (To Australia) that is "lost"

That has tentatively been tracked down to a collector in Ireland, we have
vague ideas of a name too but in this day of privacy etc I am not sure it
should be publicized.  It's drawing a long-bow, but illustrates the many
difficulties there are in finding "lost bobbins".

Oh, my wife Jean has just asked me if I looked in those two boxes of bobbins
I have and she has to move every time she cleans?  "Yes, darling, I have!"
Smile.

Brian




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RE: [lace] Bedford Hangings

[brido11]

Dear All,

I never really wrote much about hanging bobbins as it was so well covered by a 
web page that we had many years ago (I am afraid my memory can not recall it).  
It was a fabulous site, but I do not think it was ever archived (great shame.)

The other reason was that my great bobbin friend knew far more about them than  
I did!! I did contribute something on hanging on that site.

Below is the entry in the Dictionary (www.brianlemin.com  )

hanging bobbin
A bobbin that bears an inscription commemorating the hanging of a criminal. 
There were seven hangings recorded by inscriptions on bobbins. Matthias and 
William Lilley 1829. Sarah Dazeley 1843, Joseph Castle 1860, Franz Muller 1864, 
William Worsley 1868. William Bull 1871, Miles Wetherall 1868. These do not 
come up for sale often and are thus rather expensive though they are not as 
well turned as many other bobbins.

We had no room to tell you more.

I had my birthday yesterday and despite everyone saying how well I looked, it 
did not improve my memory!! It is a bit of a worry.

Brian



-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of J Reardon
Sent: Wednesday, 5 February 2020 9:55 AM
To: Catherine 
Cc: Annette Meldrum ; Elizabeth Ligeti 
; lace@arachne.com
Subject: Re: [lace] Bedford Hangings

I think this is the link you’re wondering about : 
https://www.mail-archive.com/lace@arachne.com/msg54056.html

The message thread is in the archives. Search “Mrs. Dazley hanging bobbins”. 
It’s from January this year. Started with Brian’s messages about the existence 
of bobbins commemorating hangings and their rarity. Certainly a curiosity. 

Jean Reardon, western PA

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[lace] Possibly I have let you down. Marian Powys-Lace Bio.

[brido11]

I recall pompously getting on my hobby horse and telling you that I was not
going to accept the invitation to write a lace biography of Marian Powys
(Lace and Lace Making) for the Powys Society Journal.

 

The truth is that I really meant it as I hate academic writing probably
because I did my Masters by Research and had to write a 90,000-word thesis
(Nursing Ethics)  That would put anyone off the academic genre of writing!

 

However, the editor wrote me a very clever letter commiserating with me but
wrote a wonderful paragraph talking about the important information I was
depriving the Lace Community of [that is a split infinitive. sorry,] and the
Powys Society as a whole.  Well, I think that was a great exaggeration and
flattering too.  so I gave in! frown

 

All my hifalutin principles went into the bin!

 

I agreed and currently, it is being edited, I hope for the next issue of the
Powys Journal (Sometime in your summer I believe).

 

It was fascinating to research and indeed she has a lace biography that
equals the literary prowess of her brothers.  It is fascinating and I hope
that I will have shown the Powysians that she was not "just a lacemaker"
(and writer).

 

The above shows what an unprincipled guy I am (Masters in Ethics or not!)

 

When it is published I plan to write a non-academic version for web docs and
allow myself some personal comments and thoughts about her that will not
need to be referenced!

 

I need to say that whilst I have been cooperating with the editing of the
article I have not had a formal acceptance of it!! So it is still fingers
crossed.

 

I also will be publicly acknowledging the help I have received by at least
half a dozen lacemakers in the UK and the USA.  They are great detectives
and more importantly all lace makers, not like me, "just a woodturner"!
(Oh, and a clavichord maker. my latest project. [sorry editor.. off topic])

 

So beware of my "big mouth"!

 

Brian


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[lace] England's oldest lave bobbin. Updated. Web docs

[brido11]

Just to let members know that I have removed two articles written over the
years on England's oldest lace bobbin and amalgamated and added to this
March upload. It is basically up to date unless you check all the dates on
your Honiton Trolly bobbins (best place to look) 1662 is that date you have
to beat!  I suspect that there are a few more 1600 plus bobbins out there.

 

Lemin, Brian. England's Oldest Lace Bobbin. Do We Really Know ?, 11 pages.
Posted March 2020.
 FIRST PAGE. File size 1,046KB PDF
 

 

Brian

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[lace] Our mail list software

[brido11]

Dear All,

 

Firstly I have no idea about programming or software etc.  This note to the
list is purely based on a discussion being held currently on another list I
belong to (Jackrail; Harpsichords and clavichords) They are considering
changing to a modern "mail list" programme.  

 

I suspect that our programme is quite old by now, so I offer this to those
who know better than me.

 

I am not sure about this following statement so please forgive me if I am
wrong:  "I think that our current list costs money to run and we have a
generous benefactor".

 

I think that "Discourse", the programme Jackrail is considering moving to,
is free. (see below)

 

Next reason is that besides the proposed new software being 100% open
source, it provides for drag and drop photos. (The one thing that made me
stop and think about writing about it to Arachne!)

 

The programme is called  Discourse and you can read about Discourse here if
you have a special interest in it.

 

https://www.discourse.org  

 

With that suggestion, I leave it to those who are far more knowledgeable
than myself to pursue if it is worthwhile.

 

I can put anyone especially interested and technically capable,  in it in
touch with the Jackrail convenor.

 

I share this with the best intentions and the last thing I want is for it
causes a furore in our happy band list users.  We will not be able to
compete with Facebook, but perhaps we enjoy improved features?

 

Like I say, I have no idea about the technicalities.

 

Jean and I are in voluntary lockdown being in the mid-80s + risk group.  All
of you take care.

 

Special thanks to all of you who are health carers from an old "RN" who
worked through the isolation hospital era!!

 

Take care.

 

Regards  Brian

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[lace] Trying to contact my SRA "friend" ! Brian

[brido11]

I am ashamed to admit I have forgotten who the member was with whom I
corresponded on all sorts of SRA things.



I have just finished an article on Virtue Bobbins and I would love to have her
historical help, please.



I hide my head with shame ☹



Brian

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[lace] East Devon and Downton project, progress report.

[brido11]

Dear All,

My efforts to study and report on the East Devon and Downton bobbins continue,
to try and give them the reputation they deserve, equivalent (but different)
to the East midland bobbins.



1.  Up until now consider I have been in the “collection phase” i.e.
getting enough bobbin pictures to be representative enough to be able to make
some reasonable decisions about.  Broadly this continuous but I have a special
need for pictures of decorated Downton bobbins. (Convid 19 has slowed down
progress on this group)
2.  I think you will know I “unearthed” the oldest dated bobbin (1662) 
and
found in my collection! a railway engine on a bobbin. (I have had that bobbin
for perhaps a years or so!! ☹)
3.  I have written but not yet put on webdocs and article on the Virtue
bobbins
4.  I have submitted a second article to webdocs on initial attempts to ID
decorators of East Devon Bobbins.  There are indications that we will be able
to ID say half dozen decorators, but frankly, I am wondering if it will be
worthwhile as the decorations of east Devon bobbins is complex, for the most
part, you cannot just call them to say, a Mother and Babe like we do with the
East midland bobbins. It just does not work like that.  So I/we will have to
work through that and see what comes of it.
5.  I have developed an initial list of bobbin genres (Associated with but
separate to Yallops genres.)  I have attached a list below, which is open to
suggestions and changes.
6.  I have published a couple of articles in the OIDFA IOLI journals. Mostly
doing work of trying to find the three very special bobbins belonging to
Marian Powys.  BTW it looks as if my lace bio article on Marian Powys is going
to be published by the Powys Journal this year.
7.  I am wondering how this work can eventually be published.  I do not 
think
it will result in another Dictionary like the East Midlands bobbins (
www.brianlemin.com   ) but perhaps It will be an
“A GUIDE” to collecting East Devon and Downton bobbins.?? Who knows?

Here is my list of Genres as it currently stands. Genre List

1.   Accessories
2.   Advertisements
3.   Anchors
4.   Aquafortis
5.   Artistic
6.   Beer
7.   Birds
8.   Black and red
9.   Bone
10. Branscombe
11. Bricks
12. Circumferential lines
13. Colour
14. Types of Bobbins
15. Ebonized
16. Fancy turned
17. Fish
18. Flora and foliage
19. Flowers
20. Full shank
21. Gimp _ Trolley
22. Green dye
23. Hand Carved
24. Hearts
25. Inscribed
26. Intricate
27. Light sprigs
28. Love
29. Malmsbury
30. Maltese cross
31. Maritime
32. Medallion
33. Mermaid
34. Misc.
35. Names
36. Naming charts
37. Naive
38. Non carved
39. Oldest
40. Oldest dated
41. On pillow
42. Pale wood
43. Plain
44. Primitive crude
45. Religious
46. Sample of designs
47. Shells
48. Ships resources
49. Ships
50. Ships drawn
51. Sketched bobbins
52. Social objects
53. South bucks
54. Spiral inscribed
55. Sprigs
56. Steam
57. Straight lines
58. Sun
59. Sun Stars
60. Tails
61. Top half
62. Treen
63. Trees
64. Triangles
65. Trolly _ Gimp
66. Unusual
67. Virtues
68. Worn

Thanks for all your help and support



Brian

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[lace] East Devon and Downton project progress report (second attempt to send sorry)

[brido11]

Dear All,

My efforts to study and report on the East Devon and Downton bobbins continue,
to try and give them the reputation they deserve, equivalent (but different)
to the East midland bobbins.



1.  Up until now consider I have been in the “collection phase” i.e.
getting enough bobbin pictures to be representative enough to be able to make
some reasonable decisions about.  Broadly this continuous but I have a special
need for pictures of decorated Downton bobbins. (Convid 19 has slowed down
progress on this group)
2.  I think you will know I “unearthed” the oldest dated bobbin (1662) 
and
found in my collection! a railway engine on a bobbin. (I have had that bobbin
for perhaps a years or so!! ☹)
3.  I have written but not yet put on webdocs and article on the Virtue
bobbins
4.  I have submitted a second article to webdocs on initial attempts to ID
decorators of East Devon Bobbins.  There are indications that we will be able
to ID say half dozen decorators, but frankly, I am wondering if it will be
worthwhile as the decorations of east Devon bobbins is complex, for the most
part, you cannot just call them to say, a Mother and Babe like we do with the
East midland bobbins. It just does not work like that.  So I/we will have to
work through that and see what comes of it.
5.  I have developed an initial list of bobbin genres (Associated with but
separate to Yallops genres.)  I have attached a list below, which is open to
suggestions and changes.
6.  I have published a couple of articles in the OIDFA IOLI journals. Mostly
doing work of trying to find the three very special bobbins belonging to
Marian Powys.  BTW it looks as if my lace bio article on Marian Powys is going
to be published by the Powys Journal this year.
7.  I am wondering how this work can eventually be published.  I do not 
think
it will result in another Dictionary like the East Midlands bobbins (
www.brianlemin.com   ) but perhaps It will be an
“A GUIDE” to collecting East Devon and Downton bobbins.?? Who knows?

Here is my list of Genres as it currently stands. Genre List

1.   Accessories
2.   Advertisements
3.   Anchors
4.   Aquafortis
5.   Artistic
6.   Beer
7.   Birds
8.   Black and red
9.   Bone
10. Branscombe
11. Bricks
12. Circumferential lines
13. Colour
14. Types of Bobbins
15. Ebonized
16. Fancy turned
17. Fish
18. Flora and foliage
19. Flowers
20. Full shank
21. Gimp _ Trolley
22. Green dye
23. Hand Carved
24. Hearts
25. Inscribed
26. Intricate
27. Light sprigs
28. Love
29. Malmsbury
30. Maltese cross
31. Maritime
32. Medallion
33. Mermaid
34. Misc.
35. Names
36. Naming charts
37. Naive
38. Non carved
39. Oldest
40. Oldest dated
41. On pillow
42. Pale wood
43. Plain
44. Primitive crude
45. Religious
46. Sample of designs
47. Shells
48. Ships resources
49. Ships
50. Ships drawn
51. Sketched bobbins
52. Social objects
53. South bucks
54. Spiral inscribed
55. Sprigs
56. Steam
57. Straight lines
58. Sun
59. Sun Stars
60. Tails
61. Top half
62. Treen
63. Trees
64. Triangles
65. Trolly _ Gimp
66. Unusual
67. Virtues
68. Worn

Thanks for all your help and support



Brian

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[lace] Museums and Copyright. (RAMM, Exeter)

[brido11]

Dear All 

I write this at the end of a series of complaints from myself and
correspondence with RAMM regarding getting access to a nice collection of
Bobbins in the RAMM Exeter (Museum) I have failed in my bid to get free
academic access to the collection, so I am giving up.

 

Just to put on record about the collection.

There are just over 100 bobbins dated from 1776 to late 1800s.

>From an unofficial source, I would say there are about 10 to 12 bobbin of
particular interest to collectors.

>From my point of view, the inclusion of 3 (perhaps 4) ships is a great pity
that I can't access them.

The special bobbins include naive decorations, mermaids, ships, birds and
one particularly fine decorator who has a lot of bobbin represented in this
collection.

 

My problem is that, as a time when many museums around the world are
removing copyright from their collections due to the ethics of using gifted
items for income and charging copyright fees for items well out of copyright
(i.e. 1776)

 

They charge for 30 minutes viewing and then have an hourly charge from
thence on. I estimated for me to photograph the set "Myself" (well via a
proxy)  would cost more than one hundred UK Pounds and possibly 150 pounds.

 

I have dealt with probably 6 or so UK museums re bobbins in the past and
have never been charged by them and they have even photographed the bobbins
for me.

One other thing is that they control the use of the images you might take.
They claim that my flattening of an image is "Manipulation". It is not, I
just print say 5 images very close together, then the bobbin looks flat. I
rarely if ever make any changes to an image.

If anyone is interested in this issue I can tell you that there a lot of
articles on the web regarding the museum and copyright ethics.

 

I think their policy of restricting and charging the people of Devon for
access to their objects of interest to their local history and then refusing
my offer of voluntarily writing about them and informing the Devon people
(Possibly the world!) of the wonderful things they have locked away is a
breach of their educational requirements in favour of making money.

 

Brian

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[lace] Reading source of my articles. plus museum fees

[brido11]

Sorry to answer two questions at once!

 

Here is the URL for webdocs which is where I publish all my work except
articles that are published in Lace Journals or other media outlets.
https://www2.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/webdocs.html

 

The Dictionary which has a section on Honitons etc is [ www.brianlemin.com
   ]

 

Any newsletter/lace journal etc are free to download any of my articles and
publish them should you want to.

 

I go to webdocs and then scroll down to my name (there are other ways to do
that too.)

 

  I often hit cntrl/f and write my name in the box that appears.  There are
other ways of course.

 

RAMM fees

Just to let you know about the RAMM Exeter fees. First 30 minutes free then
pounds 26.95 per 30 minutes.

 

PS those who are unfamiliar with Webdocs it is a huge source of articles and
historical resources re-lace and associated activities.  Some of our members
have been heavily involved in collecting and scanning these documents.
Hours of reading whilst you are locked down!!

 

I read Browns three booklets on the social aspects of lace making in the
past yesterday. (broad description I am afraid)

 

Brian

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[lace] ? Ancestry help? and a ?Bobbin maker? help

[brido11]

Hi, friends (yes I want something!!) Smile.

 

This lockdown gave me the "search Frenzies" today, and it was quite
productive.

 

I have found a bobbin inscription which is asking for an Ancestry (Or
whatever) search and secondly the name of a possible East Devon bobbin
maker.

 

Here is the auctioneers information of the lot they were selling and the two
issues are within this.

_

A large group of Honiton and Devon bobbins, 17th century to modern 

Including eight with inscriptions, including 'SAG. BJH. When this you see
remember me, tho many a mile we distant be.' and ' Take this, my dare, and
prove true, till I return from seeing to you, Ann Bond, February 18, The
gift is small but love is all when this you see, remember mee,
A.E.Saunders'; three Devonshire Trollies; fifteen dated examples, 1696-1851;
a set of four small decorated bobbins; five 19th century initialled
examples; several examples decorated with aqua fortis; and a large group of
modern examples, including ten inlaid/spliced examples by Harry Gates of
Pinhoe, a number of floral decorated examples, and others. (qty)

_

First the genealogical request from me.

 

You will see that an A.E. Saunders gave  Ann Bond a gift.  To have these
names on a bobbin is very rare and if anyone has the search skills to see if
they can be identified to some extent I would be very grateful.  No year
date Just Feb 18th. (near to St Valentine's date!)

 

The second one is that they offer the name of Harry Gates of Pinhoe (near
Exeter) as a bobbin maker.

 

Can we discover anything about this person, please?  This is the first name
I have had other than Gertrude Whiting's names  as bobbin makers from her
trip to Devon.

 

Sorry that genealogy is not my thing.

 

Your help would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks

 

Brian

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[lace] New Webdocs articles.

[brido11]

I have posted some new articles on webdocs.

 

https://www2.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/webdocs.html

 

press cntrl/f and type Lemin in the box, the look for the title you want.

 

Brian

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had a name of 
Anchors as Decoration on East Devon Bobbin.pdf]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had a name of 
Englands oldest Lace Bobbin_Updated March 2020.pdf]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had a name of 
The Virtues as depicted on East Devon Lace Bobbins.pdf]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had a name of 
Towards Identifying some Honiton bobbin decorators.pdf]

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[lace] Ann Bond follow up genealogy report.

[brido11]

Special thanks to the person who found the information for me.  I have
contacted my BEER friend to see if we can follow it up with a bit of family
history?

 

If so, I will write it up. If not then I will share the limited details we
have.

 

Many thanks

 

brian

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[lace] Isobel Rendell of Wells.

[brido11]

Does anyone happen to know this lady, she apparently has or had a very good
collection of bobbins and I think Honiton especially.

 

I would love to correspond with her if possible.

 

Thanks

 

Brian

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[lace] Email problem?

[brido11]

I have not had any posts from Arachne for a few days. I am beginning to
suspect it might be my email might be wrong.

 

Sorry about this.  I suppose this will act as a test for me.

 

Brian

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[lace] An historical reference to a "Bobbin Maker in Devon also a "trolly bobbin"

[brido11]

I have had a great morning going through all my collected quotes for
historical sources with an idea to collate then into interesting quotes to
the East Devon and Downton bobbin project.

 

Many will know that I regularly remind readers that we have no idea as to
who made or decorated Devon Bobbins, but "low and Behold" I found this
today, the quote comes from a visit to Beer.

 

It is from Moody, Devon pillow Lace and how to make it...

 

" ONLY a stone's throw from  the room where the children

have their lace lessons to-day stood the old lace

school of Beer, where their grandmothers were .. "learned" at a fee of one

penny a week. 

Next door to the school lived a "twisty and deformed" man, who eked

out a scanty livelihood by making and decorating bobbins."

 

It may be hard for you to imagine the "joy" that reference has given to a
bobbin fanatic like me, but as I am locked down I might stop and watch silly
TV for the rest of the day!! Smile (no I won't!)

 

To be more serious, the fact is the Beer has a good reputation for the
interest and quality of their bobbin decoration. Particularly for Maritime
topics.

 

The other thing is that we have never been sure that the "Maker" of the
bobbin also "Decorated" it.  Certainly, in this case, the maker also
decorated it.

 

I also found another quote relating to another thing that has been puzzling
me and I have submitted an article about it to Webdocs, but I do not think
it is up yet.

 

The quandary was about the historical name for an East Devon/ Downton bobbin
that I have been calling a "Trolly" bobbin.  I have found a picture that has
confirmed their name, but now I have found some text that gives some
credence to the special type of bobbin it  "could" be.

 

The quote again comes from Moody and whilst it does not refer directly to
the trolly bobbin we have become aware of being used in the Lace Areas of
the South of England, it does refer to a bigger 

h e a v i e r bobbin being required for trolly lace and that certainly
meets the requirements that the more modern bobbin has.  Here is the quote

 

"In the old days, when trolly lace required a heavier bobbin, one carved
from the  a small

 bone of a chicken's wing was used; and in an earlier period, again, some of
the smaller bones

from a pig's foot, upon which the thread was wound as on a reel."

 

 

 

 

 

The only other historical person that actually gives us names of two bobbin
makers is Gertrude Whiting. (quite my favourite bobbins writer) She wrote
about a trip she had to Devon, and I am blowed if I can find that article
and the two names.  Grrr

 

Perhaps I will watch TV after all!!

 

Thanks to  you few who read my posts, I do not think that one is quite as
boring as some I have written

 

Stay at Home and Keep your distance, wash your hands and don't crowd out
Bondi Beach (Idiots).

Brian

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