Re: [lace] help on English terminology
Hallo Lacefriends, Mostly english vocabulary is very precise what make it coming in in german but today it is german who make life easier. We have Halbschlag (halfstitch), Leinenschlag (linen stitch, cloth stitch, whole stitch) and Ganzschlag (whole stitch again after some books, double half stitch). one to zero for the old Germany. Hurra. Greetings Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
re: [lace] help on English terminology
Hi everyone Carolina wrote: >I think the word has lost its proper meaning, as in my humble opinion it >should have to be equivalent to "clothstitch". > In fact, Carolina is right. The 'whole' in 'wholestitch' would refer to its appearance viz. 'whole cloth' was another term for 'plain weave' in hand-weaving - which in overall appearance looks exactly like our bobbin lace CTC (an aside: one cannot make two alternate passes at once, on a weaving loom, to make plain weave, however, as one can with a pair of bobbins in CTC - the edges are the giveaway). There isn't a term 'half cloth' - but there is half-stitch and double-half stitch - which make sense (double = two of them). IMO confusion has arisen in terms and their *other* meanings, for instance in the English phrase 'two halves make a whole.' (the merits of which I would love to debate - but not on lace. On chat, maybe). -- bye for now Bev in Sooke, BC (on Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada) Cdn. floral bobbins www.woodhavenbobbins.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] help on english terminology
At 10:24 AM 1/24/2005, you wrote: Andrea has been teaching lace for 25+ years, and I've been making it for only 4 or 5, so I must extend due respect to her, but I have some books that refer to whole stitch as CTCT, which is not the same as cloth stitch (CTC). English terminology: Half Stitch CT Whole Stitch CTC Double Stitch CTCT (or Whole Stitch and Twist) Continental terminology: Half Stitch TC or CT Cloth or linen StitchCTC Whole Stitch TCTC or CTCT The safest way to be sure you are understood is to use C and T rather than the words. We all understand the process of making the stitches and can translate the letter codes into whatever terminology we were taught. People in different regions developed slightly different terms for the stitches, and passed these on to their students, who passed them on to their students, etc etc etc. Now that we communicate across borders and share books, the various terms for the same stitches come to light. Just be aware these differences exist, check to see what each book means, or ask your teacher for her definitions. Enjoy making lace, and celebrate the differences. It keeps the mind alert. Alice in Oregon - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] help on english terminology
Andrea has been teaching lace for 25+ years, and I've been making it for
only 4 or 5, so I must extend due respect to her, but I have some books that
refer to whole stitch as CTCT, which is not the same as cloth stitch (CTC).
Barbara
> Dear All,
>
> I was taught lace making in England (all be it 28 years ago) and have
> always used the terminology Cloth Stitch (for CTC) and Cloth Stitch and
> Twist ( for CTCT). I've been teaching lace making for 25+ years and all my
> pupils have been taught this terminology (they are also told that they may
> see the term Whole stitch in some books and that this is the same as Cloth
> Stitch).
>
> I was taught that it was called Cloth Stitch because when you made a strip
> in the stitch it looked like woven cloth. Seems logical to me!
>
> Happy lacing
>
> Andrea
>
> from a cold Cambridge, UK where it might snow again later.
>>
>> It would be nice if we English-speaking lace makers could standardize our
>> terminology. At the moment, we have to find somewhere in the book/article
>> how the author defines the two terms.
>>
>> Here are the usual definitions:
>>
>> U.S.: Cloth stitch is cross, twist, cross and Whole stitch is cross,
>> twist, cross, twist (i.e. 2 half stitches making 1 whole stitch)
>> U.K.:Whole stitch is cross, twist, cross and Whole stitch and Twist is
>> cross, twist, cross, twist ('cloth stitch' isn't used)
>>
>> As a 'neutral' Canadian, I think the U.S. terminology is more logical and
>> prefer to use it.
>
> _
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RE: [lace] help on english terminology
Dear All,
I was taught lace making in England (all be it 28 years ago) and have
always used the terminology Cloth Stitch (for CTC) and Cloth Stitch and
Twist ( for CTCT). I've been teaching lace making for 25+ years and all my
pupils have been taught this terminology (they are also told that they may
see the term Whole stitch in some books and that this is the same as Cloth
Stitch).
I was taught that it was called Cloth Stitch because when you made a strip
in the stitch it looked like woven cloth. Seems logical to me!
Happy lacing
Andrea
from a cold Cambridge, UK where it might snow again later.
It would be nice if we English-speaking lace makers could standardize our
terminology. At the moment, we have to find somewhere in the book/article
how the author defines the two terms.
Here are the usual definitions:
U.S.: Cloth stitch is cross, twist, cross and Whole stitch is cross,
twist, cross, twist (i.e. 2 half stitches making 1 whole stitch)
U.K.: Whole stitch is cross, twist, cross and Whole stitch and Twist is
cross, twist, cross, twist ('cloth stitch' isn't used)
As a 'neutral' Canadian, I think the U.S. terminology is more logical and
prefer to use it.
_
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[lace] help on English terminology
First of all thank you very much to all who have replied to my question. I have noticed that one thing is clear: CTC worldwide means "clothstitch" and CT worldwide means "halfstitch" and everybody understand the same. Areas worked entirely in clothstitch I understand as "linenstitch". Probably this is not worldwide understood in this way. Really the controversial word is "wholestitch". And I am going to add fuel to fire. I think the word has lost its proper meaning, as in my humble opinion it should have to be equivalent to "clothstitch". While clothstitch is making reference to its appearance similar to cloth, the word "wholestitch" is making reference to the "way of working it". So, I think that the meaning of the word "wholestitch" should not be exactly "the double of halfstitch", only another reading on the basis of CTC, and considering "halfstitch" CT as a "non closed clothstitch". I hope my thoughts do not confuse the matter too much. In my first book of Witch Stitch Lace, I used the word "clothstitch" CTC everywhere, so I shall continue using it, defining the stitches and leaving aside the word "wholestitch". Best regards. Carolina. Barcelona. Spain. -- Carolina de la Guardia http://www.geocities.com/carolgallego/ Private apartments for rent on Spanish Coast http://www.winterinspain.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] help on english terminology
Hello Carolina When I first learned to make BL I was taught that although CT was half stitch, CTC was "whole" stitch or linen stitch. CTCT was double half stitch. Vera Rigney who taught me learned originally from a Mrs Helen Hoppe, who learned from her mother Mrs Mary Ainger, who in turn learned from her mother Mrs Jane Dillow who came from Buckinghamshire. Nowadays I say 'half stitch' for CT, 'cloth stitch' for CTC and 'cloth & twist' or 'double-half stitch' for CTCT. A similar terminology problem happens with rose-ground and honeycomb. Modern (English) lacemakers usually think of rose-ground as a four pin version of the Flemish cane-ground or five-hole ground and honeycomb as the filling very commonly found in point ground laces such as Bucks Point. However, old books (including Dillmont) refer to the point ground filling as rose ground whilst the five-hole ground is double ground or maidens net. Confusing?? Brenda On 23 Jan 2005, at 10:54, Carolina G. Gallego wrote: As a non English mother tongue, I am wandering which is the difference and the most important: what do you understand by "wholestitch and clothstitch". Reading different lace books I have noticed the use of the 2 words without distinction. I would like to be sure what I am writing, as I am preparing my second Witch Stitch book. Brenda http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/paternoster/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Help on English Terminology
Through different teachers, I know whole stitch, cloth stitch and linen stitch as all being the same = cross, twist, cross. An extra twist (cross, twist, cross, twist) makes cloth stitch and a twist or whole stitch and a twist, but I've never heard it called linen stitch and a twist. I understand this is called the closed method - starting with cross. My present teacher teaches newbies the 'open method', but leaves us 'oldies' to continue as originally taught with the 'closed method'. I think the open method is twist, cross, twist for whole/cloth/double stitch, and half stitch is twist cross, so that whatever stitch you do, the passives hang parallel. I've also heard her used the term 'double stitch' which has something to do with cloth/whole/linen stitch, but I haven't asked what as I used the closed method. Jean in Poole, UK - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] help on english terminology
As you've already discovered, there are differences in terminology among English-speakers from various countries. Just knowing what definition is used in any given country doesn't solve your problem, as the discrepancies still exist. My suggestion for an author of any lace book is to define your terms at the beginning of the book. I am amazed how many books I own that do not do this--at which point I need to study the various designs in the book, compare to working diagrams and photos of the lace to figure out what the author means by linen stitch, cloth stitch, whole stitch, etc. I can adapt my little brain to one definition or the other as I move from book to book, as long as the author tells me how she defines a given term. Barbara Joyce Snoqualmie, WA USA > Hello spiders, > > As a non English mother tongue, I am wandering which is the difference and the > most important: what do you understand by "wholestitch and clothstitch". > Reading different lace books I have noticed the use of the 2 words without > distinction. I would like to be sure what I am writing, as I am preparing my > second Witch Stitch book. > Grateful in advance for your help. > > > Carolina.Barcelona. Spain. > -- > > > - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] help on english terminology
At 02:54 AM 1/23/2005, you wrote: As a non English mother tongue, I am wandering which is the difference and the most important: what do you understand by "wholestitch and clothstitch". Reading different lace books I have noticed the use of the 2 words without distinction. This comes up regularly because it is one of the conundrums of lacemaking. (I do pretest attributing it to the USA as in a couple other messages. The USA came into lacemaking long after this developed in Europe. We usually use the method our teacher used.) Two terminologies. English form: Half Stitch CT Whole Stitch CTC Double Stitch CTCT (or Whole Stitch and Twist) Continental form: Half Stitch TC or CT Cloth StitchCTC Whole Stitch TCTC or CTCT At the start of your book, have a page with the definitions that you are using in your book. Then each lacemaker can use or translate as they desire. This mix up of the wording of the stitches is one reason many pattern designers resort to diagrams more than words. (With my own students, I find I avoid the term of Whole Stitch completely. I use Half, Cloth, and Double -- just my own version. I do explain the two methods, though.) Best wishes with your book, Alice - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] help on english terminology
I was taught in the UK and was taught by Pat Read using "Cloth Stitch"
Over here as far as I am aware we use cloth stitch and whole stitch as
meaning the same thing.
Therefore what the US may know as wholestitch we would know as either
wholestitch and twist or clothstitch and twist.
I hope I haven't made things more complicated for you.
Claire
Kent, UK
On 23 Jan 2005, at 11:02 am, Margot Walker wrote:
It would be nice if we English-speaking lace makers could standardize
our terminology. At the moment, we have to find somewhere in the
book/article how the author defines the two terms.
Here are the usual definitions:
U.S.: Cloth stitch is cross, twist, cross and Whole stitch is cross,
twist, cross, twist (i.e. 2 half stitches making 1 whole stitch)
U.K.: Whole stitch is cross, twist, cross and Whole stitch and Twist
is cross, twist, cross, twist ('cloth stitch' isn't used)
As a 'neutral' Canadian, I think the U.S. terminology is more logical
and prefer to use it.
On Sunday, January 23, 2005, at 06:54 AM, Carolina G. Gallego wrote:
As a non English mother tongue, I am wandering which is the
difference and the most important: what do you understand by
"wholestitch and clothstitch".
Margot Walker in Halifax on the east coast of Canada, where our third
blizzard in 10 days is about to start. We're expecting 40cm of snow.
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[lace] help on english terminology
It would be nice if we English-speaking lace makers could standardize
our terminology. At the moment, we have to find somewhere in the
book/article how the author defines the two terms.
Here are the usual definitions:
U.S.: Cloth stitch is cross, twist, cross and Whole stitch is cross,
twist, cross, twist (i.e. 2 half stitches making 1 whole stitch)
U.K.: Whole stitch is cross, twist, cross and Whole stitch and Twist
is cross, twist, cross, twist ('cloth stitch' isn't used)
As a 'neutral' Canadian, I think the U.S. terminology is more logical
and prefer to use it.
On Sunday, January 23, 2005, at 06:54 AM, Carolina G. Gallego wrote:
As a non English mother tongue, I am wandering which is the difference
and the most important: what do you understand by "wholestitch and
clothstitch".
Margot Walker in Halifax on the east coast of Canada, where our third
blizzard in 10 days is about to start. We're expecting 40cm of snow.
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[lace] help on english terminology
Hello spiders, As a non English mother tongue, I am wandering which is the difference and the most important: what do you understand by "wholestitch and clothstitch". Reading different lace books I have noticed the use of the 2 words without distinction. I would like to be sure what I am writing, as I am preparing my second Witch Stitch book. Grateful in advance for your help. Carolina.Barcelona. Spain. -- Carolina de la Guardia http://www.geocities.com/carolgallego/ Private apartments for rent on Spanish Coast http://www.winterinspain.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
