[lace-chat] Language is cool - language differentiation
Regarding 2yr olds being unable to differentiate between similar consonants if they haven't been regularly exposed to them when younger. If I remember correctly this came from a piece of Canadian research there is a native language which uses consonants (sounds) not used in English, adults cannot differentiate between the sounds but children up to the age of 18 months can. The same tv series that showed the above experiment also showed the theory that children will automatically impose order on language - i.e. will make rules - grammar is basically only a description of those rules from my understanding. The sign languages used by the deaf, as I understand it, have their own grammar. The imposition of order changes a 'language' from a pidgin to a creole. With accents it can be quite interesting - one student friend of mine had a mild accent - Liverpudlean - but when he spoke French the accent was as broad as can be and very funny. Regarding the various spelling of surnames my mother has researched the family history. Tracing her maiden name, Limon, back eventually couldn't find any ancestors until she found them under Lammiman. The explanation she was given at a class was that at that time the majority of people were illiterate so the local priest spelt the phonetically from the parishioner's pronounciation. Regarding 'the exception proves the rule' in science when testing a hypothesis, experiments are designed with the intention of disproving the hypothesis in that way you are testing the theory. Of course the other phrase that uses 'prove' in meaning of test is 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'. Peter To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Language is cool
Got this from lace-chat 3 years ago, don't know who sent the original: 1, The bandage was wound around the wound 2, The farm was used to produce produce 3, The dump was so full that they had to refuse any more refuse 4, We must polish the Polish furniture 5, He could lead if he would get the lead out 6, The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert 7, There is no time like the present to present the present 8, A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum 9, When shot at, the dove dove down into the bushes 10, I did not object to the object 11, The insurance was invalid for the invalid 12, There was a row amongst the oarsmen about how to row (alongside the row of bouys) 13, They were too close to the door to close it 14, The buck does funny things when the does are present 15, A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line 16, To help with the planting the farmer taught his sow to sow 17, The wind was too strong to wind the sail 18, After a number of injections my jaw got number 19, Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear 20, I had to subject the subject to a series of tests 21, How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend? And if you read French: Ses fils vendent des fils (his sons sell threads) Les Poules du couvent couvent (the hens of the convent are sitting on their eggs) Brenda http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/paternoster/ To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Language is cool
I am amazed that the book is doing so well!! I'd like to get a copy - just to encourage the author, if nothing else! When I was a child, my mother seemed to believe that the use of good grammar and proper punctuation were clear signs of "good breeding" (her words, not mine!). So I grew up in a "Zero Tolerance" household. I admit that by virtue of my age, not my economic status, I went to schools where virtually all of the students shared a common ethnic background (which is to say, white, Anglo-Saxon, and for-the-most-part, protestant). But, as I learned later in life, "You are what you were when..." (Essentially, your values are formed for you at age 10, re-evaluated by you and solidified at age 20)... I became a dyed-in-the-wool member of the language police! Then, as a young, ~fairly~ fresh-out-of-college professional, I began to work with people who were deaf. Hmmm... the concept of "total communication" sank in quickly. Doesn't matter how you say it, as long as the other person understands what you're trying to day (I was working with sign language, obviously, where my clients were usually more fluent than I!). So the chink in the armor had been made. It was only after I began to work with a more diverse population that I realized what was happening in our schools - and in our country - and evidently to all English-speaking countries... Not everyone is brought up with the same standards of speech and composition. The fact is, when you are living in desperate conditions and unable to adequately feed and clothe your family, you aren't quite so concerned about how they phrase their sentence when they cry that they're cold or hungry or sick. That's how it was for decades with the critically poor in our country. Things have improved a great deal for the poorest of the poor... not many people starve unless they, or their caregivers, refuse to accept the help offered. But that doesn't mean that their history has changed. They were taught to speak by the people who raised them. And then they went to public schools (public in the US means government-supported) where they were thrown in with the "the rest of us". Can you imagine how that must have seemed? No wonder they quickly developed a cultural language of their own, (which they continue to change as soon as it becomes "mainstream") and no wonder the various ethnicities take pride in their differences! And so, there is now a "tolerance" for the differences in the schools. There HAS to be - or no teaching would occur at ALL - not because the teachers weren't good enough, but because the students wouldn't be receptive. So the outcome is that our institutions of higher learning are cranking our graduates who can't speak or write decently to save their lives, but they're still securing lucrative jobs, positions of power and authority (George W. Bush comes to mind...)... But some of us still value the beauty of the "well turned phrase", and for those who aspire to communicate meaningfully with us, the book, "Eats shoots and leaves - The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation", will be very useful! And we die-hard language police can simply sigh blissfully as we take it to bed with us at night! Clay, hopping gracefully off my soap-box and returning to lurkdom. - Original Message - From: "Jean Nathan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Chat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 1:54 PM Subject: [lace-chat] Language is cool > Tamara wrote: > > taught the rule (i before e, is it?) when I was in school > > > I learnt it as "i before e except after c only if it rhymes with me", but > then there's bound to be exceptions to that. > > This afternoon I bought the book "Eats shoots and leaves - The Zero > Tolerance Approach to Punctuation" by Lynne Truss, which is Number 3 on at > least the local non-fiction bestsellers list. Supposed to be very readable. > On the back of the dust wrapper is: > > "A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun > and fires two shots in the air. > "Why?" asked the confused waiter, as the panda makes towards the exit. The > panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his > shoulder. > "I'm a panda, "he says, at the door. "Look it up." > The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an > explanation. > "Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, > shoots and leaves." > Sp puncuation really does matter, even if it is only occasionally a matter > of life and death. > This is the zero tolerance guide. > > Jean in Poole > > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: > unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Language is cool
Jean writes > This afternoon I bought the book "Eats shoots and leaves - The Zero > Tolerance Approach to Punctuation" Immediately brought back memories of Victor Borge and his piece "Phonetic punctuation". I have a copy on an old 45rmp record somewhere. He substituted sounds for punctuation marks, then recited aloud a short love story which involved more and more punctuation as it progressed. Until it ended up "All she heard was the sound of his departing horse" followed, after a pause, with a "plop" sound. Noelene in Cooma 7.30 am, been for my walk, and not looking forward to another day of top 30's temperatures. But mornings are beautiful! [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nlafferty/ To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Language is cool
Tamara wrote: I learnt it as "i before e except after c only if it rhymes with me", but then there's bound to be exceptions to that. This afternoon I bought the book "Eats shoots and leaves - The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation" by Lynne Truss, which is Number 3 on at least the local non-fiction bestsellers list. Supposed to be very readable. On the back of the dust wrapper is: "A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air. "Why?" asked the confused waiter, as the panda makes towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder. "I'm a panda, "he says, at the door. "Look it up." The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation. "Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves." Sp puncuation really does matter, even if it is only occasionally a matter of life and death. This is the zero tolerance guide. Jean in Poole To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Language is cool
i love that kind of phrases though i have to reach for my pronoucing dictionnary .. lol ...we have some pretty ones in french too but then no one would say French is an easy language to learn .. dominique from Paris . Peter Goldsmith a décidé d' écrire à Ò[lace-chat] Language is coolÓ. [2004/02/17 12:58] > I was sent this some time ago but coming only recently to lace chat I dont > know whether it made it here. > > H GAWD > > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Language is cool
I managed to decipher "kick the dunny down" but could one of the words be "chooks"? Patricia in Walws [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Language is Cool
G'day Peter, Welcome aboard. BTW I've always spelled it sulphur!!! :) David in Ballarat I don't know whether Possie is in general circulation or whether it is a word my Uncle coined for those in the family that had become Aussie citizens. Peter To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Language is cool
Yes English spelling can be really confusing. Weird is one word that doesn't follow the general rule and Neil - my nephew's name - is another which really confused me I always wanted to follow the rule. Rules in English spelling are always only guidelines and as the old adage says 'The exception proves the rule'. Which of course doesn't make sense until you realise that prove in this case means test. For those word smiths it is also the case that we can say whether a particular word in English or not by the letter combination(s). So for instance if a word contained the following combination of letters -tchst- we would say the word is not English or is it? Another item I find fascinating is once children turn approximately 2 years if they have not been exposed to particular sounds then they are unable to differentiate between similar sounds - I suppose in English an example would be free and three - that's why some people never manage a good accent in a foreign language and why Chinese have problems with the r sound. With regard to Jean's "Are you fed up of scratching or overloading your car?" I think it should be: "Are you fed up with scratching or overloading your car?" If I read them in the first sentence I want to put a pause after scratching (a comma). With my education in the UK we did not study grammar as such and so I can only go by whether something sounds right - once had a 'discussion' with a work colleague as to whether who or whom was correct in a particular sentence. The lack of a grammatical education meant that in a recent quiz the question "Which TV show features a split infinitive in the opening?" left me reaching for an English usage book - (so which tv show? and, what's the split infinitive?). As English is a living and diverse language to try and stop changes will be as successful as Canute was in trying to stop the tide coming in, or indeed any other language trying to stop English words from creeping in. My own bugbears as far as English usage are: - the use of the word sick for something thats good - the invention of the word yous as an unnecessary plural for you (an Aussie invention as far as I'm aware). - the use of the word loan for both borrow and loan. On that note the printer has stopped printing the designs, so I can put the freshly made yoghurt in the fridge and go to bed!! Peter To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re:[lace-chat] Language is cool
Peter wrote: >I love language and etymology - one of the reasons English spelling is so >weird is it reflects the etymology of the word ie where the word came from. >English spelling only really started to be standardised with the introduction >of the printing press to England by William Caxton and I believe spelling was >based on the pronounciation of words within a triangle made by London, Oxford >and Cambridge which was where the first printing press was set up. My son told me once that the word "weird" is a really weird word because it doesn't follow the "'i' before 'e' except after 'c'" rule. Penelope Piip originally from Sydney, Australia, now a resident of Groton, MA, USA. To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Language is cool
You're right. What we call 'back bacon', you call 'Canadian bacon'. For the benefit of our British friends, 'back bacon' is the closest thing we have to your 'bacon', and our 'bacon' is close to your 'streaky bacon'. Isn't language wonderful? On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 08:40 PM, Clay Blackwell wrote: eating "back bacon on a bun"... So could our Canadian friends tell me what this is? I'm suspecting it has something to do with what we call "Canadian Bacon". Margot Walker in Halifax on the east coast of Canada [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Language is cool
Here we go again - one of our favorite "twists" in chat... talking about languages! My DH was listening to a favorite entertainer on the radio the other day and the entertainer (who is Canadian) mentioned eating "back bacon on a bun"... So could our Canadian friends tell me what this is? I'm suspecting it has something to do with what we call "Canadian Bacon". Clay To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Language is cool
With the change to strerm, I also got it. I have found the discussion on language very interesting, I teach adult literacy as a volunteer and my current student got very far in life with just "reading" or sounding out the begining and ending of words and skipping the middle. With the addition of contextual clues, the student was able to guess a good deal. Judy in still wintery Niagara Falls To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Language is cool
> "hp ll yr chks trn nt ms nd kck yr dnny dwn." > In the meantime: > "m flt t lk lzrd drnkng". > David in Ballarat No problem David, but I wont post the answers - see if someone overseas comes up with the right words! Perhap's Liz's tame Aussie can tell here what a dnny is. Again, these are complete phrases, not a truncated statement like the fourscore years etc.which seems to me to be more difficult to guess at. I still do some legal dictaphone work, and can follow my boss's tapes through the most convoluted sentences, but if he starts to dictate short file notes which are just groups of words, it is very difficult to figure out sometimes what he is saying. Noelene in Cooma Having finished my show pieces, now pouring through books lookin for another challenging project. Maybe an entire Torchon mat this time, so no centre to handsew in. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nlafferty/ To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Language is cool
Ok Noelene, Here's a REAL Australian one for you. Bet you get it too :) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >strln sns lt s rjc fr w r yng nd fr "hp ll yr chks trn nt ms nd kck yr dnny dwn." In the meantime: "m flt t lk lzrd drnkng". David in Ballarat I didn't get the US one, but this is "Australian sons let us rejoice for we are young and free"?? As I said (privately) to Tamara, I wonder if the differences in spelling between UK and US English have anything to do with it? I haven't come across either string of words before, so I can't see any other reason for getting this in seconds and the other not at all! -- Jane Partridge To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Language is cool
I was sent this some time ago but coming only recently to lace chat I dont know whether it made it here. H GAWD This little treatise on the lovely language we share is only for the brave. It was passed on by a linguist, original author unknown. Peruse at your leisure, English lovers. Reasons why the English language is so hard to learn: 1) The bandage was wound around the wound. 2) The farm was used to produce produce. 3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse. 4) We must polish the Polish furniture. 5) He could lead if he would get the lead out. 6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert. 7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present. 8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum. 9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes. 10) I did not object to the object. 11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid. 12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row. 13) They were too close to the door to close it. 14) The buck does funny things when the does are present. 15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line. 16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow. 17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail. 18) After a number of injections my jaw got number. 19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear. 20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests. 21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend? Let's face it - English is a crazy language. There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren't invented in England or French fries in France. Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet, are meat. We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig. Why is it that writers write but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham? If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn't the plural of booth beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So one moose, 2 meese? One index, 2 indices? Doesn't it seem crazy that you can make amends but not one amend. If you have a bunch of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it? If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat? Sometimes I think all the English speakers should be committed to an asylum for the verbally insane. In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital? Ship by truck and send cargo by ship? Have noses that run and feet that smell? How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites? You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language in which your house can burn up as it burns down, in which you fill in a form by filling it out and in which,an alarm goes off by going on. English was invented by people, not computers, and it reflects the creativity of the human race, which, of course, is not a race at all.That is why, when the stars are out, they are visible, but when the lights are out, they are invisible. PS. - Why doesn't Buick rhyme with quick? I love language and etymology - one of the reasons English spelling is so weird is it reflects the etymology of the word ie where the word came from. English spelling only really started to be standardised with the introduction of the printing press to England by William Caxton and I believe spelling was based on the pronounciation of words within a triangle made by London, Oxford and Cambridge which was where the first printing press was set up. Peter To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Language is cool
That was Peter and Jeanine with Don and I. I won't be going this year as it is Don's 50th and we are spending the weekend up at the Gold Coast with my brother who now lives there. With any luck, he is going to arrange as behind the scenes tour for Don (and me) of the creative side of things at Warner Bros. TTFN, Lynn Scott, Wollongong, Australia To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Language is cool
Thanks Peter, now I can stop scratching my head about what STRMERM was. Actually, I think I met you and Jeanine in Eden last year with Lynn - anyone going down this May for the weekend of lacing? I'm already looking forward to it. And yes, a great addition to Chat. Life would be quite dull without the brilliant daily reparte and repeatable jokes. Noelene in Cooma, still in a prolonged (for Cooma) heatwave, and suffering accordingly. And to think I used to live in (and love) the tropics! [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nlafferty/ To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Language is Cool
In a message dated 2/16/2004 5:26:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Hi Ruth, > I don't know whether Possie is in general circulation or whether it is a word > my Uncle coined for those in the family that had become > Aussie citizens. > > Peter My tame Aussie is british born and told me yesterday that this made him a PomOz - which had me laughing because all I could think of were Pommades with Pot Pourri in them which is as far removed from the Aussie that inhabits my flat as anything I can think of. Regards Liz Beecher I'm http://journals.aol.com/thelacebee/thelacebee";>blogging now - see what it's all about To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Language is cool
Respect Joy?? What's that??!!! Ruth Budge (Sydney, Australia) Joy Beeson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ah! Australian sons, let us rejoice, for we are young and fair. DUH! If Australians are all young, I expect proper respect for my gray hair when I turn up the week after next! Try the new improved Yahoo! Australia & NZ Search at http://www.yahoo.com.au To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Language is cool
Hi Noelene, As Lynn has already dobbed me in yes I'm the lacemaker from Wollongong or actually Shellharbour, for the NSW lace guild Arachnaens I'm also your vice-president. Many apologies for number 8 somehow an extraneous M got into the puzzle - I blame my dyslexic fingers. No 8 should be STRERM. Many apologies to those racking their brains over no 8 Peter To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Language is Cool
Hi Ruth, I don't know whether Possie is in general circulation or whether it is a word my Uncle coined for those in the family that had become Aussie citizens. Peter To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Language is cool
Ah Noelene, there is now another male online in Australia. I know Peter and his wife Jeanine from lace, machine knitting, and machine embroidery. We kept running into each other so we are now great friends. Peter is brilliant at digitizing for machine embroidery, and with Jeanine's teaching is becoming quite a lacemaker. I "cannot tell a lie" just as Annette got me online, I got Peter and Jeanine on. A great addition to chat don't you think. Hey Peter if you call yourself a "possie" because you are a pommie in Aus, what does that make me, a Canuck in Aus - "Caussie"? Lynn Scott in Wollongong To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Language is cool
Hi Peter, Did I miss your "de-lurk" message? Where are you in Oz, what got you on to our lace list? Oz male lacers are few and far between. Besides David (of course) I only know of three - two in the ACT, one in the Wollongong area, and one in Sydney (tatting), but I don't know them by name. 1.VD2. SNRUS3. FFSHT 4.CTRN 5.PRTCL 6. LKUT 7. MNTNUS 8.STRMERM Voodoo Sonorous Offshoot Octoroon Protocol Lookout Monotonous But the last one eludes me. Noelene in Cooma [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nlafferty/ To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Language is cool
At 06:18 AM 2/16/04 +1100, W & N Lafferty wrote: >strln sns lt s rjc fr w r yng nd fr > >Let's see if our American spiders can work that one out. Starline sons, let us rejoice, for we are young and fair. Ah! Australian sons, let us rejoice, for we are young and fair. DUH! If Australians are all young, I expect proper respect for my gray hair when I turn up the week after next! -- Joy Beeson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~joybeeson/ west of Fort Wayne, Indiana, U.S.A. where the snow is glazed. To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Language is cool
> How many *native English speakers* from other > countries (UK, OZ, Canada) also recognised and > interpreted correctly the same truncated version? > > > Fr scr nd svn yrs g r frfthrs brght frth t ths ntn... I got it fairly quickly: 'Fr scr' was hard, then 'nd svn yrs' got me into a biblical reference, cf three score years and ten. So 'Four score and seven years', then. 'g' could have been anything (almost) but after 'years' 'ago' was most likely. 'r' sounds (in English, not Scottish ) like 'our' so try that for size ... 'frfthrs' couldn't be anything else and the rest was a downhill rush: 'forefathers brought forth this nation ... '. Except for the 't'. What's that for? I'm not at all familiar with the quote, but it looks US American. However I am _very_ familiar with the English language and that's where all the intuition and successful guesses come from. So there's a UK slant on the question. And Noelene's > How about 'strln sns lt s rjc fr w r yng nd fr' > > Let's see if our American spiders can work that one out. How about 'Australian sons let us rejoice for we are young and free' ? I'm not sure about 'sons' but the rest is probably OK? BFN, Margery. [EMAIL PROTECTED] in North Herts, UK To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Language is cool
As an addendum to my last email - it's strange now living in Australia that I did not recognise the first line of the Australian national anthem (hang head in shame), but in my defence I think of only 3 occasions when I've actually heard the Aussie anthem - I am not a sports lover, even when we had the olympics held here. Regarding US and English spelling Australia seems to plumb in the middle with some words following US and others English spelling. The one that particularly bugs me is sulfur as Australians and US spell it. Sorry I learnt it as sulphur and that's the way I continue to spell it (I was a chemist in a previous existence - chemistry not pharmacy) Anyway since we seem to be on a puzzle bent, not a phrase this time but to make things easier in each group of consonants following 3 or 4 O's have been left out:- 1.VD2. SNRUS3. FFSHT 4.CTRN 5.PRTCL 6. LKUT 7. MNTNUS 8.STRMERM Peter To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fw: [lace-chat] Language is cool
Hey Noelene It has been "strlns ll lt s rjc fr w r yng nd fr" for many years "sns" was considered sxst so it was changed to "ll" Helen > strln sns lt s rjc fr w r yng nd fr > > Let's see if our American spiders can work that one out. > > Noelene in Cooma > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nlafferty/ > > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: > unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Language is cool
I had absolutely no idea what the Australian one was - brain obviously on hold because I hadn't realised is *was* Australian even though the email came from OZ. I made it 'Sterling sins let us rejoice for we are young and free." Jean in Poole To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Language is cool
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, W & N Lafferty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >strln sns lt s rjc fr w r yng nd fr I didn't get the US one, but this is "Australian sons let us rejoice for we are young and free"?? As I said (privately) to Tamara, I wonder if the differences in spelling between UK and US English have anything to do with it? I haven't come across either string of words before, so I can't see any other reason for getting this in seconds and the other not at all! -- Jane Partridge To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
re: [lace-chat] language is cool
Hi everyone yes indeed language is cool this one > Fr scr nd svn yrs g r frfthrs brght frth t ths ntn... I didn't recognize at first then realized it was some of the hackneyed information (as in misquote) that trickles over the border and/or is accessible to us in Canada because of our proximity to our big neighbour (I stress *neighbour* - and we *are* good friends) - unless of course we've studied it somewhere, which I haven't. I have no idea what the Aussie sentence is, except the first word is Australian... I read quickly, for content; I like looking up news (to me) words, but generally skim over something that I have to puzzle out - if the writing isn't according to convention, I'm not going to waste time deciphering it, and that goes for reporting in newspapers where the reporter decides to write creatively, mixing metaphors, using malapropisms and jargon that interferes with the reader wishing to acquire factual information (blah blah blah). just thought I'd chime in -- bye for now Bev in Sooke, BC (west coast of Canada) Happy day-after-Valentine's everyone who is interested ;) To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Language is cool
> How many *native English speakers* from other > > countries (UK, OZ, Canada) also recognised and interpreted correctly > > the same truncated version? > > > > > Fr scr nd svn yrs g r frfthrs brght frth t ths ntn... Like Helen, it didn't just immediately make sense to me, but as I too love crosswords and read a lot, and must have come across the phrase in books, I soon worked it out. How about strln sns lt s rjc fr w r yng nd fr Let's see if our American spiders can work that one out. Noelene in Cooma [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nlafferty/ To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] language is cool
Tamara wrote: Fr scr nd svn yrs g r frfthrs brght frth t ths ntn...> As a UK English speaker it took me quite a while to work it out. To start with, because it means nothing to me, I don't recognise it and couldn't make a meaningful sentence or statement from it. It isn't a complete sentence which made it even more difficult. I could only have a go at individual words and got: "For soccer and seven your go our firefighters bright forth to those notion." I knew 'firefighters' couldn't be right because I'd put extra consonants in, but then what other word commonly used has those letters? 'Forefathers' (which I think it must be) doesn't exactly trip of your tongue in daily conversation, and 'nation' isn't a word that gets used often in the UK either. I think I finally got it as "Four score and seven years ago our forefathers brought forth to this nation .." what? Could be oranges, bananas, bicycles Jean in Poole To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Language is cool
It really is amazing the power of the brain. However, I would say the success depends on how fluent a reader someone is. If the researchers only used university students, (they're generally cheap and readily available), then the research would be just a tad biased. Fluent readers will use the shape of the word on the page, which is why if you use all uppercase or some of the fancy fonts that reading speed decreases dramatically. Very fluent readers don't even read every single word - depending on the difficulty of the text - that would be the reason I could never read textbooks as fast as I could fiction. I did a course on tutoring literacy, we had an interesting exercise to experience what it was like as an adult learning to read. I still have the exercise somewhere if anyone is interested. Peter To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
