Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
I received today this statement from apacer: Betreff: Fw: ADM write protection Datum: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:49:00 +0800 Von: Sarah Hsieh [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Manfred Schuler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear customer, I am very sorry for that not providing prompt response due to a long vacation (Chinese New Year) from 2/9 ~ 2/17. And the answer is Yes. Our ATA Diak Module have at this time no possibility for write protection. The write protection function need to change the hardware designing. If you have any problem, please contact us, we will be glad to help you. Best regards, Apacer Service Engineer - Original Message - From: Manfred Schuler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sarah Hsieh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 6:13 PM Subject: Re: ADM write protection Dear Mrs. Hsieh! Can you please confirm to me, that I am understanding this correct: Your standard ATA-Disk Modules have at this time no possibility for write protection. You can provide write protection on modules which are specially developed and manufactured on customer demand at additional cost. Regards M.Schuler Sarah Hsieh schrieb: Dear customer, The write protection function of ATA-Disk Module is reserved now. We will not provide other specification in current market unless customer require specific function like write protection. If you need more function regarding this product, we can do another specific Module for you. If you have any problem, please contact us, we will be glad to help you. Best regards, Apacer Service Engineer -Original Message- From: Manfred Schuler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 4:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ADM write protection On your website you claim write protection for your ATA-Disk Module. In the data sheets i cannot find any information about write protection. Can you please send me some technical information about this feature? Regards -- Manfred ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
At 2002-02-08 08:55 +0100, Stefaan Van Dooren wrote: A message I just received from Apacer quote Dear Stefaan, More information on the WP function. Apacer product is programmable for WP. The WP pin is low active, so WP wll be activated whenever the pin is asserted low. The system board, however, needs to have a WP controll logic to enable/disable WP. Not many M/B's supports such a control logic, so this is kind of a desgin-in feature. Partial WP by block is not supported by the current firmware version. It is technically feasible, but it depends on the quantity you required. /quote Stefaan, Thanks for getting a definitive answer. Is Apacer willing to supply you with a list of motherboards that support ADM WP# pin 30? I suspect they wont be able to locate any. This is a good point to use when asking them to implement the control logic in the ADM firmware. BTW, what price are you paying for an ADM? -- Mike Noyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ http://leaf.sourceforge.net/content.php?menu=1000page_id=4 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
Thanks for getting a definitive answer. Is Apacer willing to supply you with a list of motherboards that support ADM WP# pin 30? I suspect they wont be able to locate any. This is a good point to use when asking them to implement the control logic in the ADM firmware. Um...you won't find any standard motherboards that support the usage of pin 30 for write-protect, and even if you could, it would probably be controlled by software, not a switch, which kind of defeats the whole purpose. That's the entire reason the WP jumper is on the device in the first place...you can use the pin 30 interface if you're designing a custom board...folks with standard hardware can just use the jumper (or optionally wire the jumper to a manual switch). Charles Steinkuehler http://lrp.steinkuehler.net http://c0wz.steinkuehler.net (lrp.c0wz.com mirror) ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
On Friday 08 February 2002 08:39, Charles Steinkuehler wrote: Um...you won't find any standard motherboards that support the usage of pin 30 for write-protect, and even if you could, it would probably be controlled by software, not a switch, which kind of defeats the whole purpose. That's the entire reason the WP jumper is on the device in the first place...you can use the pin 30 interface if you're designing a custom board...folks with standard hardware can just use the jumper (or optionally wire the jumper to a manual switch). OK, this is where I might be confused myself, and confusing others such as Matt. Let me explain it as I understand it, and everyone is welcome to thrash me into submission if wrong. As noted in the email and to a far lesser degree on the White paper, pin #30 _can_ be used with a special MB to control the WP, in particular with _partial_ software_named files/dirs to WP. The WP used with the pins #1-2 does not require the special MB or ATA instructions, simply a jumper or a jumper with switch, but you can't do partials. Now comes in my somewhat OT comments/thoughts of yesterday. Being that this jumper configuration does not require a special MB or ATA instructions beyond what is presently used, only a jumper that bypasses the disk itself (to ground) ... Is there any reason that this could not be implemented on any or all existing ATA run devices (CF, FlashDisk, IDE, etc), the jumper is bypassing the drive itself as far as the instructions on wire #1 is concerned The reason I bring this up at all is quite simple, I believe that the general population has old hardware that could be used for LEAF similar to mine roughly 30 old 486-P1 boxes that support IDE only (no SCSI support built in). The cost of a SCSI controller board is too expensive, or won't fit in the desired case restraints desired, so though it's a excellent option, it's not a desired option. I have flash and CF cards at present that I would like to use WP if possible through existing MB's ... a manual switch or even a $10-20 module would be more cost efficient and desired than simply trashing what I already have, hardware wise, to get WP, if possible. In other words, how many folks have said: Can I run LEAF on a harddrive (IDE). We say, you can, but it is a security risk compared to a floppy. What would it mean to be able to say: You can use a hd, but if you want it as secure as the floppy, a $10-20 add-in IDE module is available here (link). I think a lot of people would find this useful, IMHO, or maybe I'm thinking too hard and flogging a dead dog! -- ~Lynn Avants aka Guitarlynn guitarlynn at users.sourceforge.net http://leaf.sourceforge.net If linux isn't the answer, you've probably got the wrong question! ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
At 2002-02-08 09:29 -0600, guitarlynn wrote: As noted in the email and to a far lesser degree on the White paper, pin #30 _can_ be used with a special MB to control the WP, in particular with _partial_ software_named files/dirs to WP. The WP used with the pins #1-2 does not require the special MB or ATA instructions, simply a jumper or a jumper with switch, but you can't do partials. Lynn, If I understand you correctly, you believe Apacer was telling Stefaan that Host Selectable (Close 2,3) mode wasn't supported, not that Connect to Ground (Close 1,2) didn't work. Since there is no WP jumper on the ADM, we need to create an adapter that jumpers pin 30 to ground when WP is desired. Did I get that right? Anyone willing to try this, and see if it works? If it's this easy, I can't understand why SST/Apacer didn't add a two pin WP jumper (Close 1,2) to the ADM. -- Mike Noyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ http://leaf.sourceforge.net/content.php?menu=1000page_id=4 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
On Friday 08 February 2002 10:52, Mike Noyes wrote: Lynn, If I understand you correctly, you believe Apacer was telling Stefaan that Host Selectable (Close 2,3) mode wasn't supported, not that Connect to Ground (Close 1,2) didn't work. Since there is no WP jumper on the ADM, we need to create an adapter that jumpers pin 30 to ground when WP is desired. Pins #2 30 are ground on a typical ATA cable. Did I get that right? Anyone willing to try this, and see if it works? I will see if I can try it today. If it's this easy, I can't understand why SST/Apacer didn't add a two pin WP jumper (Close 1,2) to the ADM. Me either, I'm probably wrong ... so I'll use a MB I won't care to lose just in case. If I'm guessing right, I'll manufacture the darn things. -- ~Lynn Avants aka Guitarlynn guitarlynn at users.sourceforge.net http://leaf.sourceforge.net If linux isn't the answer, you've probably got the wrong question! ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
At 2002-02-08 11:51 -0600, guitarlynn wrote: On Friday 08 February 2002 10:52, Mike Noyes wrote: If I understand you correctly, you believe Apacer was telling Stefaan that Host Selectable (Close 2,3) mode wasn't supported, not that Connect to Ground (Close 1,2) didn't work. Since there is no WP jumper on the ADM, we need to create an adapter that jumpers pin 30 to ground when WP is desired. Pins #2 30 are ground on a typical ATA cable. Did I get that right? Anyone willing to try this, and see if it works? I will see if I can try it today. If it's this easy, I can't understand why SST/Apacer didn't add a two pin WP jumper (Close 1,2) to the ADM. Me either, I'm probably wrong ... so I'll use a MB I won't care to lose just in case. If I'm guessing right, I'll manufacture the darn things. Lynn, You're not wrong. I just got off the phone with one of the tech support guys at SST. He sent me the schematic for the ADM device. They placed a resister R-8 on the ADM that can be shunted to ground to enable WP. He said this will work with standard IDE/motherboard configurations. Anyone that wants the ADM schematic send me email off-list, and I'll send it to you. He had no explanation for why they chose not to include a two pin WP jumper on board the ADM. -- Mike Noyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ http://leaf.sourceforge.net/content.php?menu=1000page_id=4 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
guitarlynn wrote: On Friday 08 February 2002 08:39, Charles Steinkuehler wrote: Um...you won't find any standard motherboards that support the usage of pin 30 for write-protect, and even if you could, it would probably be controlled by software, not a switch, which kind of defeats the whole purpose. That's the entire reason the WP jumper is on the device in the first place...you can use the pin 30 interface if you're designing a custom board...folks with standard hardware can just use the jumper (or optionally wire the jumper to a manual switch). OK, this is where I might be confused myself, and confusing others such as Matt. Hey! Someone might be interested in an assembly code software write-protect program for IDE devices that intercepts int13 calls (or something like that, I don't get it all) http://wcarchive.cdrom.com/pub/simtelnet/msdos/diskutil/protect.asm Download the file and read it. Very interesting. Not sure if anyone can make it executable on Linux though. Matt ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
On Friday 08 February 2002 13:10, Mike Noyes wrote: Lynn, Do you already have one of the ATA-Disk Modules? If so, where did you get it, and what did you pay for it? No, Mike, I don't have one your not grasping the scope I see here. I just tried it, but it doesn't work as expected ... I'll have to engineer a module to work with it and a system patch ... but I can do this. THIS CAN BE MADE TO WORK WITH _ANY_ IDE DEVICE! -- ~Lynn Avants aka Guitarlynn guitarlynn at users.sourceforge.net http://leaf.sourceforge.net If linux isn't the answer, you've probably got the wrong question! ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
Mike Noyes wrote: At 2002-02-08 12:57 -0600, guitarlynn wrote: On Friday 08 February 2002 13:00, Mike Noyes wrote: Lynn, You're not wrong. I just got off the phone with one of the tech support guys at SST. He sent me the schematic for the ADM device. They placed a resister R-8 on the ADM that can be shunted to ground to enable WP. He said this will work with standard IDE/motherboard configurations. This changes everything as we know it ... I'll have it tested today!!! Lynn, Do you already have one of the ATA-Disk Modules? If so, where did you get it, and what did you pay for it? How about this one, Mike? It has write protect: http://www.ssti.com/ata_disk/index.html which is explained further in here: http://www.ssti.com/products/58sd_ld.html Matt ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
On Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 02:57:44PM -0800, Mike Sensney wrote: At 09:29 AM 2/8/2002 -0600, guitarlynn wrote: ... In other words, how many folks have said: Can I run LEAF on a harddrive (IDE). We say, you can, but it is a security risk compared to a floppy. What would it mean to be able to say: You can use a hd, but if you want it as secure as the floppy, a $10-20 add-in IDE module is available here (link). I think a lot of people would find this useful, IMHO, or maybe I'm thinking too hard and flogging a dead dog! A simple question: What if during the initial boot process you mount your hard disk as a read-only device then delete the mount command? Would this be sufficient protection for a HD? (i.e. Is there any other program that could be used to remount the HD?) Saving config changes could be handled by mounting a config floppy during the init process that never gets umounted during normal operation. From my point of view, i would like to put my config data on a flashdisk or a harddisk as i do not trust floppies very much. What i would like to have is a switch connected or whatever that lets me physically enable write protection on the fly and not only at boot, cause i want to be able to update my system without the need to reboot. I just don't know how to do this for now, but that's my personal goal. So the router is protected as long as the switch is on write protection, if i change something i have to physically press a switch on this machine... Only achieving protection for the hd could be done using other methods, maybe, like looking for a way to let linux only mount it read only in the kernel or whatever (maybe use grsecurity massivly or LIDS). But i used the Flashdisk cause i wanted to get rid of the floppy drive... So maybe there are different needs out there. --arne ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
Matt Schalit wrote: How about this one, Mike? It has write protect: http://www.m-sys.com/files/dataSheets/ffd/FFD_IDE_250_Spec.pdf ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
Matt Schalit wrote: How about this one, Mike? It has write protect: And then there's Mite-Pc: http://www.iptel-now.de/HOWTO/MITE-PC/mite-pc.html Pretty neat. Matt ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
Matt Schalit wrote: How about this one, Mike? It has write protect: Some older mainboards had a certain BIOS Security menu with a Write Protect All Sectors option to write protect the whole ide drive. For example, the AOpen DX6G. In addition to that, a Fujitsu IDE drive and a Micropolis drive both had write protect jumpers. Those would be hard to find as would the right mainboard, but it's worth checking your BIOS at least. All for now, Matt ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
Jeff, Exactly. It's almost identical to the PQI DiskOnModule (DOM) product too. I'm still trying to get pricing information. From what I can tell the product came out in Oct, so the channel hasn't filled yet. Apacer is making a ATA-Disk Module (ADM) too. http://www.apacer.com/product/flash/f_adc.htm These are working great (have several of them running), but they don't have writeprotect switch, jumper. Stefaan -- Mike Noyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ http://leaf.sourceforge.net/content.php?menu=1000page_id=4 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
At 2002-02-07 09:35 +0100, Stefaan Van Dooren wrote: Apacer is making a ATA-Disk Module (ADM) too. http://www.apacer.com/product/flash/f_adc.htm These are working great (have several of them running), but they don't have writeprotect switch, jumper. Stefaan, This particular model does. Note: there is a three pin jumper at the top of the ATA-Disk Module, and the text below the image states: Extended Data Protection and Security WP# pin for data protection If I'm wrong please correct me. Thanks. -- Mike Noyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ http://leaf.sourceforge.net/content.php?menu=1000page_id=4 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
At 2002-02-07 15:59 +0100, Stefaan Van Dooren wrote: The three pin jumper is for master slave settings for IDE(at least on the my modules it is). I don't see anything about writeprotect on the module. I will check the manuals asap. Stefaan, Thanks for looking into this, and correcting me. Would someone with some EE background look at the pdf below, and explain to me in layman terms if it's possible to use WP# pin 30 on standard motherboards. http://www.ssti.com/products/pdf/519-58SM-LM8-192-01.000-DS.pdf -- Mike Noyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ http://leaf.sourceforge.net/content.php?menu=1000page_id=4 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
Would someone with some EE background look at the pdf below, and explain to me in layman terms if it's possible to use WP# pin 30 on standard motherboards. http://www.ssti.com/products/pdf/519-58SM-LM8-192-01.000-DS.pdf The simple answer: No More detailed explination: Pin 30 is defined as a ground pin by the ATA specifications (http://www.t13.org/), so conforming motherboards and controllers do *not* have a means to toggle this pin high or low. If you jumpered pins 2-3 on the WP# jumper, the disk would *always* be write protected when using a standard IDE controller. The use of pin 30 of the IDE interface cable is apparently for those users who are designing their own embedded systems. I would suggest folks wanting to make use of this new ATA flash disk with write-enable wire a switch between pins one and two of the WP# jumper on the disk module (perhaps using an old turbo switch, if you're lucky enough to have one available on your case of choice). Charles Steinkuehler http://lrp.steinkuehler.net http://c0wz.steinkuehler.net (lrp.c0wz.com mirror) ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
At 2002-02-07 09:47 -0600, Charles Steinkuehler wrote: Would someone with some EE background look at the pdf below, and explain to me in layman terms if it's possible to use WP# pin 30 on standard motherboards. http://www.ssti.com/products/pdf/519-58SM-LM8-192-01.000-DS.pdf The simple answer: No Charles, Thanks for looking at this. Every time I think we have a write protect solution, it doesn't pan out. :-( More detailed explination: Pin 30 is defined as a ground pin by the ATA specifications (http://www.t13.org/), so conforming motherboards and controllers do *not* have a means to toggle this pin high or low. If you jumpered pins 2-3 on the WP# jumper, the disk would *always* be write protected when using a standard IDE controller. The use of pin 30 of the IDE interface cable is apparently for those users who are designing their own embedded systems. In other words, you need a custom motherboard/ata controller, to support WP# pin 30. I would suggest folks wanting to make use of this new ATA flash disk with write-enable wire a switch between pins one and two of the WP# jumper on the disk module (perhaps using an old turbo switch, if you're lucky enough to have one available on your case of choice). This is the solution I was hoping for, but it looks like the ADM on board three pin jumper is for master/slave selection not WP#. :-( -- Mike Noyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ http://leaf.sourceforge.net/content.php?menu=1000page_id=4 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 08:06:47AM -0800, Mike Noyes wrote: In other words, you need a custom motherboard/ata controller, to support WP# pin 30. I would suggest folks wanting to make use of this new ATA flash disk with write-enable wire a switch between pins one and two of the WP# jumper on the disk module (perhaps using an old turbo switch, if you're lucky enough to have one available on your case of choice). This is the solution I was hoping for, but it looks like the ADM on board three pin jumper is for master/slave selection not WP#. :-( but shouldn't it be possible to build an adapter that is between the motherboard and the ata disk that changes just this behaviour and loops all other pins through ?? These Flashdisks are normally just plugged into the motherboard, right ? its not the best solution, but i never saw anything that directly had this switch on the disk :( --arne ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
At 2002-02-07 17:20 +0100, arne @ loopback . org wrote: On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 08:06:47AM -0800, Mike Noyes wrote: In other words, you need a custom motherboard/ata controller, to support WP# pin 30. I would suggest folks wanting to make use of this new ATA flash disk with write-enable wire a switch between pins one and two of the WP# jumper on the disk module (perhaps using an old turbo switch, if you're lucky enough to have one available on your case of choice). This is the solution I was hoping for, but it looks like the ADM on board three pin jumper is for master/slave selection not WP#. :-( but shouldn't it be possible to build an adapter that is between the motherboard and the ata disk that changes just this behaviour and loops all other pins through ?? These Flashdisks are normally just plugged into the motherboard, right ? its not the best solution, but i never saw anything that directly had this switch on the disk :( Arne, I don't think so, if I'm reading the quote below correctly. http://www.chipcenter.com/memory/mdp/webscan/mn013/mn013401.htm ~ SST's ADM products are the only embedded mass data storage solution ~ of this type that contain an integrated Write Protect (WP#) Pin, ~ which is not normally found in an IDE connector. Therefore, ~ customers that do their own IDE interface can take advantage of the ~ WP# Pin feature. -- Mike Noyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ http://leaf.sourceforge.net/content.php?menu=1000page_id=4 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
This is the solution I was hoping for, but it looks like the ADM on board three pin jumper is for master/slave selection not WP#. :-( but shouldn't it be possible to build an adapter that is between the motherboard and the ata disk that changes just this behaviour and loops all other pins through ?? These Flashdisks are normally just plugged into the motherboard, right ? its not the best solution, but i never saw anything that directly had this switch on the disk :( No...this is not (easily) possible. The ATA interface is a complex combination of registers that require read/write access to send commands and recieve status/data from the ATA device. To install a write-protect device between the motherboard and an ATA device, you need something that understands ATA at the application level, and returns some sort of error for logical write commands. While not impossible to implement, something like this would be quite complex, on the order of the hardware RAID devices that look like a single large ATA (or SCSI) disk drive, but interface to multiple physical storage devices. Charles Steinkuehler http://lrp.steinkuehler.net http://c0wz.steinkuehler.net (lrp.c0wz.com mirror) ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
I just got word back from PQI, I should get a data sheet in a couple of weeks. It won't be availiable until May though :( ### snip ##3 Dear Lynn Yes, we are now ready to present the first model of our Secure Disk on Module product; it will be formally launch to the market in May, this product is perfectly for those applications, which just likes you mentioned. PQI now is the market leader in Taiwan and Europe for this type of product, Secure DOM is our latest DOM product; it also being asked by many of customers who just like you since one and half year ago. Because for the password type DOM can not satisfy with their needs anymore. I will send you the datasheets of this product in the end of this month, because PQI will close for the Chinese New Year from Feb. 9 to Feb. 17. After you go through those product descriptions, I ensure you will be very interested to this wonderful DOM/HDD solution. Regards Sam Lu Information Appliance Division. # end of snip # If the CS modification to the ATA cable will work, I'll be willing to manufacture some for the group (or a module as Arnie noted, this will require 12 ATA cables though ... 24 max length). -- ~Lynn Avants aka Guitarlynn guitarlynn at users.sourceforge.net http://leaf.sourceforge.net If linux isn't the answer, you've probably got the wrong question! ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 10:41:33AM -0600, Charles Steinkuehler wrote: This is the solution I was hoping for, but it looks like the ADM on board three pin jumper is for master/slave selection not WP#. :-( but shouldn't it be possible to build an adapter that is between the motherboard and the ata disk that changes just this behaviour and loops all other pins through ?? These Flashdisks are normally just plugged into the motherboard, right ? its not the best solution, but i never saw anything that directly had this switch on the disk :( No...this is not (easily) possible. The ATA interface is a complex combination of registers that require read/write access to send commands and recieve status/data from the ATA device. To install a write-protect device between the motherboard and an ATA device, you need something that understands ATA at the application level, and returns some sort of error for logical write commands. While not impossible to implement, something like this would be quite complex, on the order of the hardware RAID devices that look like a single large ATA (or SCSI) disk drive, but interface to multiple physical storage devices. I understand this. But as i see this, this special device has one pin that it put to ground enables write protection. So what i that was: why not put this adapter between it that does nothing but connecting all pins from the device to the motherboard directly, except one, #30, which can be set to ground or whatever using a switch. As #30 seems not to be used by normal ATA, it should make not difference to the motherboard. the adapter is just an physical extension to avoid brazing on the ATA device itself... Charles Steinkuehler http://lrp.steinkuehler.net http://c0wz.steinkuehler.net (lrp.c0wz.com mirror) ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
On Thursday 07 February 2002 10:59, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 10:41:33AM -0600, Charles Steinkuehler wrote: To install a write-protect device between the motherboard and an ATA device, you need something that understands ATA at the application level, and returns some sort of error for logical write commands. I understand this. But as i see this, this special device has one pin that it put to ground enables write protection. Not if it is expecting an ATA instruction back at the motherboard to work. If it was this simple, we would probably be using this as we speak and it wouldn't require a special controller (rather they could simply eliminate pin 30 at the disk and take it to ground there). -- ~Lynn Avants aka Guitarlynn guitarlynn at users.sourceforge.net http://leaf.sourceforge.net If linux isn't the answer, you've probably got the wrong question! ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
At 2002-02-07 17:59 +0100, arne @ loopback . org wrote: On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 10:41:33AM -0600, Charles Steinkuehler wrote: No...this is not (easily) possible. The ATA interface is a complex combination of registers that require read/write access to send commands and recieve status/data from the ATA device. To install a write-protect device between the motherboard and an ATA device, you need something that understands ATA at the application level, and returns some sort of error for logical write commands. While not impossible to implement, something like this would be quite complex, on the order of the hardware RAID devices that look like a single large ATA (or SCSI) disk drive, but interface to multiple physical storage devices. I understand this. But as i see this, this special device has one pin that it put to ground enables write protection. So what i that was: why not put this adapter between it that does nothing but connecting all pins from the device to the motherboard directly, except one, #30, which can be set to ground or whatever using a switch. As #30 seems not to be used by normal ATA, it should make not difference to the motherboard. the adapter is just an physical extension to avoid brazing on the ATA device itself... Arne, If it was this easy, wouldn't SST have put a WP# jumper on the ADM? An announcement on the Apacer home page [1] leads me to belive that the SiS550 family [2] may support the ADM WP# pin. [1] http://www.apacer.com/ [2] http://www.sis.com/products/soc/550.htm -- Mike Noyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ http://leaf.sourceforge.net/content.php?menu=1000page_id=4 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
At 2002-02-07 10:47 -0600, guitarlynn wrote: I just got word back from PQI, I should get a data sheet in a couple of weeks. It won't be availiable until May though :( ### snip ##3 Secure DOM is our latest DOM product; it also being asked by many of customers who just like you since one and half year ago. Because for the password type DOM can not satisfy with their needs anymore. Lynn, Maybe their referring to me. ;) I've been asking for a DOM with a write protect tab/jumper/switch for approximately that long. I hope their new Secure DOM will work with standard motherboard/ide controller combinations. -- Mike Noyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ http://leaf.sourceforge.net/content.php?menu=1000page_id=4 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
On Thursday 07 February 2002 11:24, Mike Noyes wrote: At 2002-02-07 10:47 -0600, guitarlynn wrote: I just got word back from PQI, I should get a data sheet in a couple of weeks. It won't be availiable until May though :( ### snip ##3 Secure DOM is our latest DOM product; it also being asked by many of customers who just like you since one and half year ago. Because for the password type DOM can not satisfy with their needs anymore. Lynn, Maybe their referring to me. ;) Probably so . ;) I've put in RFI's at several places... on several products. I've been asking for a DOM with a write protect tab/jumper/switch for approximately that long. I hope their new Secure DOM will work with standard motherboard/ide controller combinations. Me too. # Hey CS ### Is there any reason I can't make a module w/ a solid-state time-delay relay (set to boot time + x secs) to break pin #39 (Drive Active/Drive 1 present) and get the same effect? I would be willing to engineer one ... maybe I'll give it a shot tomarrow or over the weekend. -- ~Lynn Avants aka Guitarlynn guitarlynn at users.sourceforge.net http://leaf.sourceforge.net If linux isn't the answer, you've probably got the wrong question! ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
Stefaan Van Dooren wrote: Mike, The three pin jumper is for master slave settings for IDE(at least on the my modules it is). I don't see anything about writeprotect on the module. I will check the manuals asap. Stefaan Perhaps you have different modules. The one refered to in the pdf file clearly shows a jumper on the module in Figure 2-1 on the bottom of page 8: http://www.ssti.com/products/pdf/519-58SM-LM8-192-01.000-DS.pdf where it says jumper pins 1 and 2 for write protect. As Charles suggested it's a simple matter of installing a switch and wiring it to those jumpers. The turbo switch is an option. I don't understand all this discussion about hacking ide cables and all. Just use the jumper or get a scsi drive. Stefaan, This particular model does. Note: there is a three pin jumper at the top of the ATA-Disk Module, and the text below the image states: Extended Data Protection and Security WP# pin for data protection Then jumper 1 to 2 so that it's write protected. Isn't that what you're trying to do? Matthew ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
At 2002-02-07 14:12 -0800, Matt Schalit wrote: Stefaan Van Dooren wrote: The three pin jumper is for master slave settings for IDE(at least on the my modules it is). I don't see anything about writeprotect on the module. I will check the manuals asap. Perhaps you have different modules. The one refered to in the pdf file clearly shows a jumper on the module in Figure 2-1 on the bottom of page 8: Matt, This is where I got confused too. There is only one on-board jumper and it's for selecting master/slave not WP#. Note 2 on the bottom of page 7 mentions the on-board master/slave jumper. Figure 2-1 is apparently an illustration of WP# implementation. There is no WP# jumper on the ADM. -- Mike Noyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ http://leaf.sourceforge.net/content.php?menu=1000page_id=4 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
Mike Noyes wrote: At 2002-02-07 14:12 -0800, Matt Schalit wrote: Stefaan Van Dooren wrote: The three pin jumper is for master slave settings for IDE(at least on the my modules it is). I don't see anything about writeprotect on the module. I will check the manuals asap. Perhaps you have different modules. The one refered to in the pdf file clearly shows a jumper on the module in Figure 2-1 on the bottom of page 8: Matt, This is where I got confused too. There is only one on-board jumper and it's for selecting master/slave not WP#. Note 2 on the bottom of page 7 mentions the on-board master/slave jumper. Figure 2-1 is apparently an illustration of WP# implementation. There is no WP# jumper on the ADM. Now I'm caught up finally :) The jumper's vaporware as Jeff mentioned and this thread isn't the How do I write protect my IDE hard drive. So why isn't anybody trying to boot of their nic? Matthew ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
On Wednesday 06 February 2002 02:04, Jeff Newmiller wrote: On Sun, 3 Feb 2002, guitarlynn wrote: Yes, a product to keep me from cutting tiny toggle switches into those blasted IDE cables would be a godsend! I can live with the CF cards nicely though for the time being (if I can get one anyway)! My curiosity gets the better of me... just how many of these toggle switches have you installed, and how well have they worked? hehe, I haven't to be honest I was in a strange mood @that time. I probably shouldn't have put it in there, sorry. I remember a long thread with some people trying this a couple of years ago though, did anybody ever have any success??? If my memory serves me right, there was a problem with disk-corruption errors if the system tried to write to the HD. It wouldn't be much trouble for me to try this if your really interested though. A less frustrating way of trying would be to wack a piece out of wire #23 and simply switch to another cable to write. I'll give it a try, I need to do some soldering today anyway! You bit, I will too. -- ~Lynn Avants aka Guitarlynn guitarlynn at users.sourceforge.net http://leaf.sourceforge.net If linux isn't the answer, you've probably got the wrong question! ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
At 2002-02-06 16:10 -0800, Jeff Newmiller wrote: On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Mike Noyes wrote: Lynn, This looks like a winner. It claims Linux compatibility too. http://www.ssti.com/ata_disk/admbrief.pdf This looks like the same hardware I bought from Advantech a year ago, but my PCD-1240V doesn't have any WP# pin, or at least any access to it. Jeff, Exactly. It's almost identical to the PQI DiskOnModule (DOM) product too. I'm still trying to get pricing information. From what I can tell the product came out in Oct, so the channel hasn't filled yet. Apacer is making a ATA-Disk Module (ADM) too. http://www.apacer.com/product/flash/f_adc.htm -- Mike Noyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ http://leaf.sourceforge.net/content.php?menu=1000page_id=4 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
At 2002-02-06 16:10 -0800, Jeff Newmiller wrote: On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Mike Noyes wrote: Lynn, This looks like a winner. It claims Linux compatibility too. http://www.ssti.com/ata_disk/admbrief.pdf This looks like the same hardware I bought from Advantech a year ago, but my PCD-1240V doesn't have any WP# pin, or at least any access to it. Jeff, From what I've read, SiS added a non ATA compliant WP# signal to their ATA controller. The WP# jumper has three states outlined in the SSTI pdf below. I expect a lot of manufacturers will start using this new SiS ATA controller. http://www.ssti.com/products/pdf/519-58SM-LM8-192-01.000-DS.pdf -- Mike Noyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ http://leaf.sourceforge.net/content.php?menu=1000page_id=4 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
On Sun, 3 Feb 2002, guitarlynn wrote: On Saturday 02 February 2002 10:33, Mike Noyes wrote: [...] I'd really like to see PQI add a write protect switch to their 40 pin DOM products. [...] Yes, a product to keep me from cutting tiny toggle switches into those blasted IDE cables would be a godsend! I can live with the CF cards nicely though for the time being (if I can get one anyway)! My curiosity gets the better of me... just how many of these toggle switches have you installed, and how well have they worked? --- Jeff NewmillerThe . . Go Live... DCN:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Basics: ##.#. ##.#. Live Go... Live: OO#.. Dead: OO#.. Playing Research Engineer (Solar/BatteriesO.O#. #.O#. with /Software/Embedded Controllers) .OO#. .OO#. rocks...2k --- ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] CF (write protect) + IDE adapter
At 2002-02-03 00:52 -0600, guitarlynn wrote: On Saturday 02 February 2002 10:33, Mike Noyes wrote: Everyone, It looks like we may finally have a write protect CF+IDE solution. HEY, HEY, HEY (Lynn does a happy-dance!!!). Thank-you Mike! (wiggle, wiggle) CFDISK.5B $12 each (OEM: $6 each + $50/lot) http://www.pcengines.com/testordr.htm Nice, but the $20/10 ones that mount on the case and use the IDE 44's work much nicer for 1U/2U applications! :) Write Protect Compact Flash Card http://www.pqi.com.tw/pqi-eng/product/flash-card/wpcf.htm No pricing at this site or the distributors sites, I emailed PQI for pricing/outlet information. This would be incrediably nice I'll let everyone know when (if) I hear back from them. Lynn, Make sure you talk to the people at PC Engines. They may need to make some changes to their adapter to accommodate the write protect function of the PQI CF card. PQI Write Protect Compact Flash Card Compatibility http://www.pqi.com.tw/pqi-eng/product/flash-card/com.htm I'd really like to see PQI add a write protect switch to their 40 pin DOM products. http://www.pqi.com.tw/pqi-eng/product/flash-disk/fdisk-40pin.htm Yes, a product to keep me from cutting tiny toggle switches into those blasted IDE cables would be a godsend! I can live with the CF cards nicely though for the time being (if I can get one anyway)! Let them know this is what you would like. Who knows, maybe they will build it. -- Mike Noyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ http://leaf.sourceforge.net/content.php?menu=1000page_id=4 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
