RE: [leaf-user] LRP router failing? - Alcatel SpeedTouchHome (STH)DSL line-quality info
Dale, If I am understanding correctly, you've confirmed: 1. The Win98 box doesn't drop packets ever (ie. their equipment works) 2. Your equipment works (connected the laptop to the DachBox via a crossover cable and dropped no packets from the laptop to the LEAF router or from the LEAF router to the laptop.) This smells like an autonegotiation problem between their equipment and yours. What NICs are in your machine? After you try another NIC, I would give another type of NIC a shot. - Bob Coffman --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
Re: [leaf-user] LRP router failing? - Alcatel SpeedTouchHome (STH)DSL line-quality info
About your 'strongest' comment... This is by no means far-fetched, IMO. We're all probably more accustomed to hardware being either working or non-working and are infrequently confronted with a situation of degradation or 'dying' gear. A story from my past: I was working in telecom - PC-based voice systems. We had an installation where we could plug a regular telephone into a jack and all was well, but when we plugged into the PC it couldn't 'see' the line. Checked with different ports, another PC, none could see the line but dang it, a set plugged in directly would work fine. We finally got around to testing the loop resistance and it was just outside of spec. The phone set was more 'tolerant' and the PC-boards were by-the-book. So the idea that different gear may be stronger or more tolerant is not off-the-wall at all. Thanks for letting us know how it all turned out. scott; canada [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip What if the Windows machine has the strongest NIC(I don't know what that means, but humor me)? It would drop no packets. Let's say the laptop is not as strong as the Win98 box, but better than the LEAF boxes (which use identical NICs, btw). The laptop therefore drops 2% to 50%, and the DachBoxen rarely lose fewer than 50%. That would also explain why the problem has been steadily worsening for the past month. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
RE: [leaf-user] LRP router failing? - Alcatel SpeedTouchHome (STH)DSL line-quality info
Dale, If I am understanding correctly, you've confirmed: 1. The Win98 box doesn't drop packets ever (ie. their equipment works) 2. Your equipment works (connected the laptop to the DachBox via a crossover cable and dropped no packets from the laptop to the LEAF router or from the LEAF router to the laptop.) That's all correct. Also, last night on Ray Olszewski's recommendation I connected a 10/100BT switch between the DachBox and the Flowpoint DSL router. Lazarus rose from the dead. I ran internet backups between the file servers all night long without loing a single packet. In fact, an fping from the Seattle file server to the Boise server _during_ the backup did not drop a packet, although latency jumped to about 500 ms. This smells like an autonegotiation problem between their equipment and yours. What NICs are in your machine? After you try another NIC, I would give another type of NIC a shot. The NICs are Linksys LNE100TX. I do intend to swap another NIC into the DachBox today as an experiment, and I have a 3Com card I can try as well. But I'm not sure what that would prove. If the LAN switch circuity in the DSL router is failing in such a way as to cause this problem, and the switch I cobbled in there is just compensating for that, putting in a different NIC (with a stronger outgoing signal strength, if that is the right concept) could just mask the problem. After all, the NIC in the Win98 box worked just fine connected directly to the DSL router. Let's say I cannibalized that NIC, put it in the DachBox, and it works just fine. This problem has been deteriorating gradually for the last month. If it is the DSL router LAN side that is in a death spiral, I could find that in a week or two it has degraded to the point that even the stronger NIC can't compensate any more. I'm beginning to think that the only way I'll find out for sure is if in replacing the DSL router, the problem goes away entirely. Or not. Dale Mirenda --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
Re: [leaf-user] LRP router failing? - Alcatel SpeedTouchHome (STH)DSL line-quality info
snip So the idea that different gear may be stronger or more tolerant is not off-the-wall at all. Thanks for letting us know how it all turned out. scott; canada Thanks for the validation, Scott. I'm staying here another day in Boise because the ISP is sending a replacement DSL router (tomorrow) to see if that solves the problem (logical, since it is the only critical component in the whole network that I have not replaced!). That will tell us whether this theory is right or not. Dale Mirenda --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
Re: [leaf-user] LRP router failing? - Alcatel SpeedTouchHome (STH)DSL line-quality info
Charles Steinkuehler wrote: Thinking about this some more, I'm beginning to suspect the DSL line. If I may, would this possibility not have been obviated when Dale connected a Win98 box to the line and had no loss in pings? Thank you, Scott. I've downloaded the software and I'll give it a try momentarily. Update: I'm in Boise, more confused than ever. Pings from the Win98 box (which is directly connected to the 4-port hub on the FlowPoint 2200 DSL router) on which I'm composing this message to anywhere never drop. When I connect the DachBox to the same DSL LAN port packets are dropped at a rate of anywhere from 20% to 100%. Connecting my Apple laptop (OS 10.3) in the same way packets are dropped anywhere from 0% to 50%. From the laptop, I got results of 2%, 4%, 14%, 30%, and 50% (not in that order) when I sent 50 packets to the DSL router or to my webserver in Seattle. Also, I connected the laptop to the DachBox via a crossover cable and dropped no packets from the laptop to the LEAF router or from the LEAF router to the laptop. Before I did this testing, I completely disabled ipsec to remove that variable. I installed and ran tcpdump -i eth0 (the public address) not port ssh as Peter Mueller suggested, and got a flood of results that in no way resembled his example. I was not able to tell anything from that. I called the ISP and a tech ran through some tests with me. He logged in to the DSL router and sent pings to this computer when I had it connected, and to the LEAF public address (64.113.213.14) after I hooked it back up. Pings from the DSL router to this computer were perfect. Pings to the DachBox dropped at a rate of 30%. All of which told him that the problem was the LEAF router. He could not explain why the PowerBook dropped packets as well. As he pointed out (accurately, as far as I know) the DSL router can't tell the difference between a packet from a *nix client and one from a Windows client. Still, something strange is going on there. While I was on the phone with ISP tech support, the replacement DachBox2 arrived from Seattle. I terminated that call (we'd done just about all we could think of anyway) and I hooked up the new box. Same results. Dropped packets all over the place. Unless we want to postulate a very untimely double fault, I don't know what to make of that. The bottom line to all of the above is that I'm more stumped than ever and don't know what to do next. I suppose I'll try to replace the eth0 NIC in the DachBox2 to try to eliminate the double fault possibility. I actually tried to do that earlier today as well, but neither of the NICS worked after that. When I restored the NIC I'd removed, they worked again. I don't know how to get the ISP to seriously consider the possibility that their connection could be at fault. They simply don't see any problem from their end. If possible, I'm more open than ever to any suggestion. Dale Mirenda --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
Re: [leaf-user] LRP router failing? - Alcatel SpeedTouchHome (STH)DSL line-quality info
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If possible, I'm more open than ever to any suggestion. You mentioned the DSL modem has a 4-port switch on it. Are you using the same port for testing all machines (ie: 'doze box, firewall, and laptop)? You problem still smells like bad infrastructure (ie: cable or port), so I'd start by trying to isolate the DSL modem as the problem. If you get the same results on all ports (ie: windows works wherever you plug it in, and linux/Mac fail on all ports), see if you can get tomorrow's stock prices through the space-time wormhole surrounding your office, so at least we can all make some money day-trading. :-) -- Charles Steinkuehler [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
Re: [leaf-user] LRP router failing? - Alcatel SpeedTouchHome (STH)DSL line-quality info
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If possible, I'm more open than ever to any suggestion. You mentioned the DSL modem has a 4-port switch on it. Are you using the same port for testing all machines (ie: 'doze box, firewall, and laptop)? You problem still smells like bad infrastructure (ie: cable or port), so I'd start by trying to isolate the DSL modem as the problem. If you get the same results on all ports (ie: windows works wherever you plug it in, and linux/Mac fail on all ports), see if you can get tomorrow's stock prices through the space-time wormhole surrounding your office, so at least we can all make some money day-trading. :-) -- Charles Steinkuehler [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm on hold with the ISP tech support right now. I'm trying to get them to explain the following: I tried another set of ping tests from the LEAF router (the replacement from Seattle). This time, I disconnected the DSL line from the FP2200. The first set of 40 packets lost 5%, the second lost 10%. I waited about a minute before sending a third set of 40 packets, and the loss rate went up to 27%. A fourth set sent soon after lost 30%. I reconnected the DSL line and sent another set of 40 packets. 50% loss. Subsequent tests indicated that the connection continued to degrade until it topped out at about 85% loss. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
RE: [leaf-user] LRP router failing? - Alcatel SpeedTouchHome (STH)DSL line-quality info
The bottom line to all of the above is that I'm more stumped than ever and don't know what to do next. I suppose I'll try to replace the eth0 NIC in the DachBox2 to try to eliminate the double fault possibility. I actually tried to do that earlier today as well, but neither of the NICS worked after that. When I restored the NIC I'd removed, they worked again. How are you doing the test with the Linux router? Are you using a server behind it? Are you connecting the private interface at all? Please make sure the private end is disconnected and try again if it was connected. If the private end was disconnected, run tcpdump on the public interface and post the results here. You can email me directly if the results are a file too large to post on a mailing list. I don't know how to get the ISP to seriously consider the possibility that their connection could be at fault. They simply don't see any problem from their end. That's not surprising. It's hard enough to get most ISPs to do anything when you can tell them exactly what's wrong. If Apple is supported, call again and open a new ticket. Tell them you have tried two Macintoshes (make the LEAF results Apple results). If possible, I'm more open than ever to any suggestion. Can you post the results of ifconfig after some packet loss? Also, if you could post an ASCII map of your network that might tell us something. IPs are not necessary but it wouldn't hurt to double-check all these settings on your own. (This has bit me a few times with all sorts of strange results). E.g., -- | DSL router | - IP x.y.z.a -- | -- - eth0 x.y.z.b |LEAF| -- - eth1 a.b.c.z | -- |xSWITCHx| - 16 port linksys (or whatever) -- | -- | Clients | -- Regards, P --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
Re: [leaf-user] LRP router failing? - Alcatel SpeedTouchHome (STH) DSL line-quality info
Charles Steinkuehler wrote: Thinking about this some more, I'm beginning to suspect the DSL line. If I may, would this possibility not have been obviated when Dale connected a Win98 box to the line and had no loss in pings? But taking that bad-copper theory further I'll make mention of the value of a Alcatel SpeedTouchHome DSL Modem. Someone once posted elsewhere that they'd never bother to buy a DSL line tester because the STH has such great diagnostics built-in. I'll first make mention of a great GUI for eyeballing the STH stats, without navigating the crude command-line interface: Nubz Alcatool. It can be downloaded here (for Win, Mac OS 8, 9, X): http://www.nubz.org/alcatool/Download.html To see the stats that are probably relevant for you you'll want to fire up the Alcatool, login with the 'telnet' password for your STH, then in the bottom right corner, click Line Stats, then in the new window click Line Info. This will give you (by default) download-only stats. To activate the upload stats click on ResetLine, wait a few secs, and you'll have the info. What to look for: Instead of my repeating, just eyeball this page: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/6728 (ignore the stuff about 'Expert' password - the Alcatool handles all that invisibly). Me, I'm on a 3.0 MB service, but have been downgraded (by the techs at my local central office) to a 1.5MB 'profile' because I'm 'measured' as 5 km from the CO (as the copper flows, so to speak). FWIW I run happily and merrily at 98-101% 'capacity occupation', 5-6db noise margin so take the suggestions of limits mentioned the dslreports as suggestions and not as carved in stone. If you do want to have a change to your DSL profile and are currently on Fast Used ATM rate (you can tell because those fields are 0 and the 'interleaved' fields are = 0) and are pushing the limits (i.e. = 6db noise, 97% capacity occupation) you could ask the CO to change you to interleaved ATM rate. The effect is an increase (IIRC: 5-10ms) in latency but throughput remains basically unchanged. Or you could have then just change you to a slower profile, staying as Fast ATM rate. Or both. I've also observed that a newer STH modem (i.e. 'G' series) gives me a higher speed connection than an older, K-series STH modem. Good luck. scott; canada --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IT Product Guide on ITManagersJournal Use IT products in your business? Tell us what you think of them. Give us Your Opinions, Get Free ThinkGeek Gift Certificates! Click to find out more http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/guidepromo.tmpl leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
